Flying The English Electric Lightning
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Simon Morris flew Lightnings on 92 Squadron from RAF Gutersloh from 1973-77. Here he shares his thoughts on what it was like to fly.
Intro/outro music courtesy of Daddy_s_Music - pixabay.com/us...
Curiously, a few people seem to object to the nickname, "Aluminium Death Tube" for the Lightning, despite it being quite common amongst ground crew in the late 60s and early 70s.
The IWM website also refers to it by that name - www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-english-electric-lightning-which-was-accidentally-flown
Personally, I consider it to be an amusing name for a fantastic aircraft.
Hi Matt, this is not connected to the Lightning, but unsure of how else to contact you (apologies!). I’m a retired RAF pilot and well remember Tony Dobbie at RAF Valley in 1983. I’ve just taken delivery of his book, “Suki, Me & World War III”. If you have any contact details for him, would you be willing to forward him my email address? In order to give you my address, do you have a secondary email address that I could contact you on? Thank you!
@@awatchman9000 Hi. If you send an email over to AirForceAnecdotes@Gmail.com we can work it out from there.
@@awatchman9000I meant to add, Dobz is always keen to catch up with folks from his RAF days. Let me know if you don't have any luck with the email address.
Thanks Matt, much appreciated; will be dropping you an email very shortly.
It was made of stainless steel. Perhaps the "death tube" referred to its effect on its enemies.
"You've never really been lost until you're lost at Mach 2". Classic! 🙂
Indeed 😄
great quote. lost at mach 2@@AirForceAnecdotes
Fantastic, amazing how these guys just speak about it as if "yip , I flew that"😊
@@gorbalsboy absolutely 😄
An ex RAF navigator told me the basis of all fast jet navigating was remembering; "you were only finding out where you used to be, and where you were going. It was never about where you actually were". I suspect those words were never more apt than when travelling at Mach 2.
Argentine Air Force pilot here.
During my year-long UN tour in Cyprus I visited RAF Akrotiry Air Base to attend the 2001 open day and see the Red Arrows air display. Upon entering the base I saw for the first time in my life a Lightning that was displayed there as a gate guard. It was a great experience for me.
Cheers!
I lived in Cyprus 1979-1980, as my dad was in the army. Incredible memories of rows of Lightnings at Akrotiri . The air filled with literally thunder and Lightnings.
@@rocketfueller When I was in Cyprus , Akrotiri was an overseas RAF base used for air deployment. During my stay there I was assigned to UNFICYP within the UN Protected Area (Nicosia) . My accommodation was opposite the officers' mess. Where did you live in Cyprus?
I lived in Episkopi., not far from Akrotiri.A great childhood, got to live in a lot of great places.@@astircalix4126
My dad flew the Lightning with 19 Sqn (92's sister Sqn) at Gütersloh in the late 60s. He loved it and enjoyed all the nicknames it had. He usually called it 'the Frightening' and often repeated the old line about it only having wings to keep the nav lights apart.
Brilliant 😄
Yes it used to really annoy the Gernans around Gutersloh I used to sit down near to the runway on my break and watch them come and go😊😊😊😊
As a pilot at 17 flying 100 MPH I got lost all the time. "You've never been lost until you're lost at Mach" two was the best line of your humble Lightning Pilot. Bravo!
Same as that!
Within 5 minutes of being off the field I wouldn't have a clue where I was in a country I'd spent 45 years in!
As a child at the Biggin Hill air show in the sixties , Lightening beat up the field . VERY low . The ground shook . It was deafening ! One of the best days of my life .😁
The F104 Starfighter was more of an aluminium death tube, that was seriously dangerous.
The "death tube" moniker was (supposedly) more to do with the what the Lightning represented. From what I've heard, it was a nickname given to it before any of them crashed anyway.
To set forth in a silver lance and joust with the force's of darkness...Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters
@@alexmarshall4331 Bob Calvert?
Nicknamed the Widowmaker.
@@KapitanKremmen Yeah...sez it...the F104 G in particular 👉♾️👈
My late father was stationed out in Goose bay with the Lightning in the 60's I believe. His last post was at Waddington on the Vulcan.
In 1997 I had the pleasure of meeting two RAF pilots on a training course at Warton who had flown the Lightning. They said it was a brilliant aircraft. Flying it was like being strapped to a rocket. It scared the pants off them and they absolutely loved it.
I saw the Lightning flying at the West Wycombe airfield airshow in the 70s. There was a very long delay in flying at the end of the afternoon, and I wondered if an announcement would soon come the airshow had finished. What I didn't know, was the long delay was due to an RAF Lightning. Looking from right to left, I spotted a low level aircraft approaching in the distance. It was a Lightning! When it reached runway centre point, on one afterburner, it went straight up into a vertical climb at a great rate of knots. Quite literally the ground shook where I was standing with the roar, as it rocketed straight up into a steep vertical climb, and through the low level cloud base. Simply amazing the RAF Lightning !
I saw similar at Chivenor in the 80's never forgotten it.
Ditto at shows at Halfpenny Green, regularly. Wonderful.
At Humberside 92 he finished his display in the same way, vertical into a clear blue sky until he vanished, then a small twinkle of sunlight as he rolled out at 60/65,000 ish.
@@markstainton9080 After that the Lightning did a few high speed passes on reheat, and then shot off into the distance with my ears still ringing. The whole display was over in no more than 10 minutes, with a very dull early evening and low level cloud base. In and out and gone in a flash! 👍⚡
There was that one time where a ground engineer was taxiing a Lightning down the runway with its canopy open following maintenance in order to do a systems check. The engineer accidentally knocked the throttle into the TOGA detent, lighting both afterburners and hurling the plane down the runway. By the time the unhappy engineer had recovered from being thrown backward into the seat there was not enough runway to stop the plane, so he took off and made a couple of terrifying orbits around the field before making a safe landing. During the takeoff roll, he narrowly missed a loaded fuel bowser that was crossing the runway, a Beverley transport plane at the end of the runway, and a junior school just beyond the runway end. Those were the days.
Apparently, he had flown light aircraft and was familiar enough with the controls to bring her back down..? Still, quite an upgrade from a single propeller to twin reheat with a deactivated ejection seat and no canopy 😄
Taffy Holden! I think that in addition to no canopy, helmet or comes, he elected to land with a tailwind (the wrong way) as there was the school. at the end of the "in to wind" approach, which meant a (likely) overshoot would have been disastrous. Bless him
He was an Engineering Officer and he opened the throttles too far during an engine ground run (which he had no training to do) and the aircraft jumped the chocks.
Yet another reason why groundcrew kept 'Engineering' Officers as far away from the aircraft as they could.
I saw him being interviewed. He seemed pretty traumatised - which is understandable. But what an incredible thing to do. Takeoff may have been largely involuntary, but to even get it to rotate and off the ground is amazing enough, let along bringing it back and landing it. The stuff of legends.
@Pico-hq7ws What an incredible story - and such a brave cool headed response to successfully land the aircraft down wind to avoid the school.
As a young boy in the ATC camped not far from the runway at RAF Wattisham during the height of the Cold War. Watched the Lightnings of 111 Squadron scramble in the middle of the night. Just epic!!!
I worked near RAF Binbrook in the early 80s. You could always tell when a Lightning was taking off because the sound was deafening!
The best 'asset' of the Lightning was seeing one taking off; accelerated down the runway, suddenly tipped up at about 80 degrees and woosh was gone - ! 😊
My old man ex Lancaster crew was Intelligence officer at Geilenkirchen in the 60s when 92 were based there and had trip in the T4 two seater with the then Wing Commander Jo Gilbert. Became a member of the 1000 miles an hour club. Wonderful aircraft. Happy days.
My uncle was an RAF QRA Lightning pilot for the majority of his carrier.
The tanker finder would be a better nickname!
I knew a young man who worked on these'death tubes' and he related a comment by an American pilot given permission to fly one. WOW!! The biggest kick up the rear I have ever had. Translate into American terminology with emphasis.
Rumour has it, our USAAF friends were a little jealous of the Lightning, back in the day 👀😄
@@AirForceAnecdotesThe Starfighter hadn't worked out, you see... best look up the 'Lockheed Starfighter bribery scandal' to discover how the US aircraft industry reacts when it might lose money. ;-)
My favourite aircraft ever with the possible exceptions of the Sopwith Camel and the Spitfire. I remember going with the school RAF section to summer camp at Binbrook in the late 60s. Wonderful.
The Sopwith Camel is an unusual favourite, but they do "look right" somehow, a bit like the Mosquito.
I had the Airfix model with the lighting bolt decals 55yrs ago, and can remember seeing them { in the 60s it could only have been a lighting } flying so high but all you could see was the con trail moving so fast
They look amazing now so I imagine they must have looked incredible in the 60s and 70s.
I was into Airfix once upon a time. I'm half tempted to pick a kit up and try again 🤔
The Squadron with the Black & Gold lightning bolts either side of the roundel was 111 Squadron. They were based at RAF Wattisham in the early 70's along with 29 Squadron.
29 Squadron's badge was XXX in bright red letters (30 in Roman numerals). According to squadron history the squadron was formed in the days of biplanes made from wood, fabric and dope. A Painter and Doper was told to paint 29 in roman numerals on all the aircraft as a squadron identifier. He asked, "what's 29 in roman numerals" and was told X, X, I, X, so that's what he painted on the aircraft, an X, another X and one more X.
I was based at Wattisham from Oct '71 until April '73 before going to 56 Squadron at Akrotiri in Cyprus, a wonderful time and a great aircraft.
Had exactly the same experiences back in mid sixties 67 years old now
@@bobdylan7120 Cheers for that
Fantastic
It was the first aircraft I marshalled straight out of training
I have just recently flown the Lightning simulator (at Tangmere) I was surprised at how stable it was. I had expected a twitchy helter skelter ride , but no , It was strait forward . Even the landing seemed reasonable even though it was at 160. But its a monster of an aircraft ! So big.
I didn't know that existed. I'll put it on the to-do list. Lightnings certainly were popular with those who flew them.
I was at Gutersloh 67 to 69. A radar engineer we sat on the side of the runway all day with the radar. The QRA lightning took off fairly regularly to scare back Russian aircraft from the Polish border. One day I saw one fitted with a belly tank return with no landing gear. The tank ripped away as it touched the runway (of course), it was empty but the residual fuel lit up the runway from one end to the other. Pilot recovered no problem.
The runway had an arrester net for brake failures. One day a german F104 (Widow maker) called mayday because of a fire warning. He was vectored to the runway in use and the net raised at the other end. However the Pilot saw the runway and just wanted to get down so made a steep approach on the wrong runway. The Net was hard to see from the back and he ran into it crashing a few yards down the runway. The pilot got out spitting nails to fins out "who put the F*%$ing net up". He calmed down when it was pointed out he had landed in the wrong direction.
Brilliant 👏 😄
The best aircraft of its time!
I was an armourer on 19 (F) Squadron, RAFG from 1971 to 74, and we used to tell the pilots that they had 5 weapons on board. You could see them puzzling; two guns, 2 Firestreak missiles…? What else? We said you have an aircraft faster than anything in the sky, it’s your weapon of last resort because the Bears mustn’t get through!
Yeah, I've heard a similar explanation from an ex Lightning pilot. To some, the plane was a third missile if it came to it. Before my time, but I can imagine the threat of WW3 kicking off any minute was rather unsettling.
On exercise in northern Germany in '74 we were repeatedly strafed by these things. I didn't mind until the sergeant told us they frequently crashed.
I bet that kept you on your toes 😄
Confusing the Lightning with the F104 Starfighter I think. In all the time I was serving in Germany I never saw a Lightning and they were tasked as interceptors anyway.
@@bfc3057Yes there were, but in the air defence role. Of course at some point an aircraft or two could have taken part in a ground attack exercise but it would have been very rare. And they didn’t fall out of the sky like German F-104s
@@bfc3057 Acknowledged, just saying that Lightnings were highly unlikely to have been involved in ground attack as their role was interception of unidentified planes crossing into the Air Defence Intercept Zone on the Inner German Border. My understanding is that only two Lightnings were lost in their twelve years of service with RAFG.
I remember the air displays at Hucknall Aerodrome when the Lightning would ‘stand on its tail’ and the ground would shake as it left the earth behind.
I remember seeing one flying low over where I live, great memory.
My old boss Sqn Leader E Jones RAF was a Lighting Display pilot a real gentleman RIP .
A Lightning crashed in Cape Town about 15 years ago, the pilot had no choice but to go down with the ship. The ejection seat failed. Its filmed on YT.
That's really sad to hear. It just reinforces how dangerous it is to fly fast jets. Even with all the training and safety procedures in place today, flying at high speed tests the best to the limit.
22 ton vim tin. Three landings on a set of mains ,if you were lucky. Permanent mobile fuel leak. Great aircraft.
I spent quite a while each day photographing 'scrubbed' or 'flat-spotted' Jaguar aircraft tyres. Heard that at the time, only Concorde and the Lighting used more tyres.
The Jag got better with mods, but...
We had a kite at Wattisham that leaked like a sieve (more than usual) but we could never trace the source.
In the end they painted the aircraft in a special (Pink) revealer paint and put an additive in the fuel that would turn the paint blue if it came into contact with it. Wait for the blue streaks and follow them back to the source of the leak(s) - easy right!
The damn thing flew for nearly a month without a trace of a leak! Eventually the pilots got so upset flying a pink lightning the paint was removed. Next flight the aircraft leaked like a sieve again!
The expression 'all-aloominum death toob' was current in the RAF when I was in, up to the mid-1980s.
It referred to the then-standard US and Soviet all-missile interceptors such as the F-104 and the Mig-21 or Sukhoi Su-7, -9 & -11 series, then being replaced with later or improved versions, or rejected altogether and corruptly sold as a ground-attacker, as in the F-104's case.
The F-104G in German service definitely lived up to it's pilot-killing reputation, and in later years the enormous corruption and bribery scandal about it's acquisition by the German government broke, and then the guilty escaped scot-free.
I've been reading up on the origins of the name, and it does seem to have come kver from the US. Some Lightning pilots were of the view that the name applied as if/when WW3 began, there wouldn't be a home to go to and some concluded that their Lightnings would be used as a third and final missile to down Russian bombers. Rumour has it, the "aluminium death tube" moniker was common before any of them were involved in fatal accidents.
My late Father did his national service as an airframe mechanic on the Canberra PR7s at Laarbruch in Germany he told me all sorts of stories of things that happened to aircraft.
Yeah, I think only the most serious incidents make it to the news and general public awareness - the rest, including all the near misses,is just 'part of the job...'
That's was great, thanks. I know some of the newer fighter / bombers have amazing performance, but they just don't compare to aircraft like the Lightning and F111. I knew an Aussie guy who wanted to fly the Lightning so badly he moved to England (long time ago). I hope he achieved his dream.
I always wanted to fly an F-15 but unfortunately the USAAF won't let you unless you're a qualified pilot and even then you could only fly it where they told you too. Pretty dull really.
Lol
That is _one busy cockpit!_ Damn.
The Lightning had 'strip-gauges', typical of Morris cars at the time, to keep the very busy pilot informed about time in the air, fuel remaining and speed, three coloured strips to avoid the pilot looking down at three different 'clocks'.
Basically, he didn't have time... ;-)
I was on 5 Sqn at Binbrook as an engineer and it took a lot to keep them flying.
I've heard that the Lightning was tricky to service, especially with the engines being stacked one above the other.
Beautiful jet
From my time in the RAF including the same period the saying was a quote from the Americans and was thus rendered as "Aluminum death toob" ! Great aircraft though. I flew transports but did a stint at Bawdsey and Boulmer as a Fighter Controller so I did have some experience from a different perspective of the Lightnings especially the Mark 3 version which, due to its extremely small fuel load was referred to as an accident waiting to happen every time one got airborne.
I'm sure there was an American jet with a similar nickname (F-104?) I wonder if it was borrowed, although the Lightning preceded the Starfighter.
I've read somewhere that they couldn't stay airborne for very long if the pilot really gave it some welly.
The Germans should have bought Lighnings instead of buying nearly a thousand (916) Lockheed F-104 Starfighters, of which 292 aircraft crashed and 116 pilots lost their lives.
Crikey that's a shocking statistic...
The skin was stainless steel. "Stainles steel death tube" doesn't have the same impact.
🤔 I can't argue with that. It's highly likely that the nickname came from America, and "Aluminum death toob" has an even better ring to it.
Agreed
@@AirForceAnecdotes
yes-i hoped someone would remember the steel. ✔️
There was some titanium at the hot-end & some steel around hard-points, but the majority of the fuselage skin was aluminium.
So, NOT a death tube...
The expression 'all-aloominum death toob' was in use in Britain, as it had been heard being said by a US pilot, he was talking about the generation of all-missile short-range interceptors, such as the Sukhoi Su-7, -9 to -11s, the F-104 Starfighter, and the English Electric Lightning.
The Lightning was what it was for well thought out reasons & was defined by its mission requirements. Short range? There wouldn't be much warning of Soviet bombers. Simple radar? Come WW3 intercepts would be almost certainly under ground radar coverage. Etc etc.
Read somewhere’ it was all under control until l released the parking brake’
Never saw one fly, pity.
Yeah, there's a clip of an English Electric fitter on the IWM website where he mentions that quote. Funny stuff 😄
I once worked on an OCU (Operational Conversion Unit) where the examiner's comments on a Student's final one hour check flight was, "Flying Officer ****** started the engines and thereby initiated a sequence of events over which he appeared to have little or no control".
The quote was by FO Richard Pike, his two books of tales of the lightning are the best!@@bobdylan7120
Love it 😂
The Canberra ejection was in Saint Margaret children’s home If so, give me a shout.
Hi. I have heard of that crash, but the one I'm working on is a different story. I may be in touch if when and if I look at the one you've mentioned. Thanks.
Surely the 'aluminium death tube' would be better applied to the F104 Starfighter.
From what I've read the term might have been first uttered in the UK by American pilots, and some references to F-104s. Who really knows? 🤷🏼♂️
I would think all aircraft of the Lightning generation were a handful to fly. The Scimitar was far worse, the Sea Vixen also had a bad accident record. To say nothing of the American F-100 Super Sabre and F-104 Starfighter.
twice the thrust of a hunter? the hunter didn't have an afterburner. it's probably thrice the thrust of a hunter.
Stolen from an SR 71 pilot who said “You have never been lost until you have been lost at Mach 3”.
Or perhaps simply paraphrased because the same amusing principle applies? 🤔
I can’t believe that you kept the stupid “Aluminium Death Tube” banner especially after interviewing the pilot who was full of praise for the Lightning.
I have no issue with it. I think it's a cracking nickname as do others.
@@AirForceAnecdotes But it gives the wrong impression. The Lightning was a good aircraft not a killer.
It was a fantastic plane; an interceptor designed to kill Russian bombers. I've spoken to an old RAF pilot today who only ever knew the name "Aluminium Death Tube" as being exciting descriptive of the Lightning's role.
It would appear to be a matter of personal preference as to whether the name is an amusing reference to its purpose or a morbid description of supposedly flawed design. You are welcome to focus on whichever interpretation you want, but I'll stick to the former. Thanks.
@@oldergeologist Well, in all honesty, that is a matter of conjecture. Many Lightnings were lost during its time in the air and unfortunately so were a lot of the aircrew.
14 pilots died flying it,from the book'The lightning boys'.
The Frightening....
Stainless steel😊
More than twice the power as it had reheat. Mistake 1.
twice the engines he said
The point was twice the engines and it had reheat on its two Avons.
As for the Hunter I was actually on holiday on the scene when the Hunter crashed in Tintagel.
I've since read the unfortunate pilot's story and his verdict of the Hunter was damning if interesting.
In addition to the Shoreham event with photos of the jet exhaust and the aircraft clearly in a climbing attitude suggesting no thrust from the engine.
While the Thunder City tragedy seemed to be the result of a number of minor problems combining to create big implications for it's unfortunate pilot and loss of a valuable flying example.
I think the government should have provided the resources for the RAF to keep one or two in flying condition for airshows.
The pilot that actually flew the Lightning really shoots down your death tube BS.
This is why this scrap was sold to Saudia and Kuwait in the 60's 😂
So why did you put that stupid, inaccurate caption on top of your video picture? Channel blocked....
Aluminium Death Tube was a common nickname for the Lightning in the 60s. See from about the 5 minute mark on this video from the Imperial War Museum.
czcams.com/video/YqD2DKvYyJE/video.htmlsi=MUzgVxmW-HzEiX4A
Remove the subtitles. they obscure the subject.
Click the CC icon to turn subtitles on and off.
Yup, the Austin Allegro of fighter jets..useless...lol.
The lightning was fast and it run out of fuel before it reached the airfield perimeter. Then there was the armament, two useless missiles, and nothing else.
As a fighter aircraft it was a joke, albeit a fast joke.
Like the Allegro killed British Leyland, the Lightning killed British aircraft manufacturing, it was so bad, the RAF bought US aircraft after that.
But the British are excellent at celebrating disasters, so the lightning enters folklore. A bit like Dunkirk really.
I can't like this or respond with a polite comment. Move along now 👉
It wasn't a fighter lol! It was designed as an interceptor and probably one of the very best of the time.. But you are right about the Allegro, although the Marina was far worse.
You can't pronounce or spell aluminum correctly?
I'm guessing you're American? It's spelled "aluminium" in the UK 😄
www.thoughtco.com/aluminum-or-aluminium-3980635#:~:text=In%201808%2C%20Sir%20Humphry%20Davy,The%20official%20name%20%22aluminium%22%20was
I was stationed at RAF Gütersloh 1970-1972 and worked in an office in a hangar at the end of the runway. There was a time when all Lightnings were serviceable and all of them (I think 36) were ordered up. What a sight! Shooting nearly straight up with both after burners glowing. Fantastic.
I joined the RAF in 1979 and I loved the lightning but never saw one. I did see Phantoms at RAF kinloss next to the Nimrods both elegant aeroplanes but those random Phantoms really looked the part.