Kia EV9 rapid charge speed: up to 80% on a spring day with battery preconditioning
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- EV9 could be the perfect road trip machine for a big family, but how fast can it rapid charge? I try it on a spring day (about 12°C), battle with some charging issues, and try battery preconditioning to see if that helps enable fast charging speeds.
I also get geeky with an OBD dongle and Car Scanner (misterev.co.uk/gear/obd-dongle) to see what's going on in the background.
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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:17 - OBD dongle
02:40 - Route planning with battery preconditioning
06:27 - IONITY Folkestone Services
08:21 - Third time lucky
12:20 - Octopus Electroverse
14:45 - 80%
16:48 - Back home - Věda a technologie
It was £47.88 to charge (65p/kWh using Electroverse), which added 211 miles. That works out to 23p per mile.
Yes, that's expensive, but remember most people would charge at home overnight (£7.20 for a full charge) and even if rapid charging occasionally, that's probably not too much more expensive than refuelling a 7-seat Range Rover.
Remember a V8 fossil rangerover will use twice as much fuel as a regular 50mpg sh1tbox. The fact you can get over 3 miles/kwh is pretty epic. The old etron did 2.0-2.5 max.
Admittedly at the moment am avoiding rapid chargers as it’s getting too expensive now, just use the AC charging at work, only use the rapids for a top up, nothing more
Yes, agreed. But for people living in a row house even with a smaller EV, if they need to depend on an unreliable and expensive public charger network, that deters them from adopting an EV. AC charging in Belgium is already 0.58€/kWh, and that is - in practice - at 11kW. DC charging is 0.85€/kWh. FASTNED is 0.69€ and I yet have to see a broken charger there. Also, it works with APP and / or creditcard. This is how it should be. That is why I love them. If I can, I will plan to top up at a FASTNED. I don't trust the others. Half of the Allego fast chargers are out of order and don't get fixed. The situation with the untethered AC chargers is a bit better. But not satisfactory. I have a good life most of the time because I can do all the charging here on my driveway. But as soon as I need to go top up faster, I'm getting stressed out. When the chargers were all new that was a lot better and the charging was a lot cheaper too. Now you have to pay through the nose if you can find one that works. That is the best strategy to keep everybody on ICE cars.
44p pkW in France using Electroverse
@@rayjones9231 For DC charging?
As a retired salesman I have always said....
"Never do live demonstrations"
Glad you didn't edit anything
Has your missus reviewed the car yet? Her roasts are tbe best.
It’s coming in the next couple of weeks!
Appreciate showing the issues regarding getting the charge started!
Cheers for the video Andrew. Thanks for also showing the OBD port location. I was stumped on my test drive day trying to find it mainly because i ran out of time. As for Ionity speeding up when others depart,that’s happened to me 3-4 times in my EV6 especially at Beconsfield services which is always busy as hell these days.
Another great little video Andrew. When I preheat my battery (in a Taycan) it usually gets it to about 35 degrees to provide optimum temperature. But, can never be sure if the sat nav actually thinks you are going to a charger, so on a couple of occasions, no preheat has actually occurred (which then requires a bit of ‘spirited’ driving in sport mode before I get to the charger!). Noticed a big difference using the same charger across a 24 hour period earlier this year. Arrived after a 2.5 hour drive and successful preheat and was getting 150Kw. Then used it the following morning after a 5 minute drive and no time for preheat (with a similar battery percentage) and got 50kw max. It’s all a learning experience, albeit I wouldn’t go back to ICE.
You can turn off speed notifications and you can manually turn on preconditioning.
20% is considered low SoC and 12v battery maintenance turns off now at 15%.
Your coldest battery cell needs to be over 21C to charge optimally.
Holding the plug can make a difference. The car & charger communicate using resistance based communication over the CP, PP & PE pins. If the pins are tarnished, damaged etc. it can interfere with this, and judging by the amount of scratches on the white part of the ABB plug you were using, its had a few hops off the ground to boot... Pushing the plug home can make a better connection on the pins.
It is also worth noting my '22 Ioniq 5 has 110,000 km on the clock, and the charging port on the car is noticeably looser . 'like mouth of tired dog' as Borat once said.
Its also worth mentioning the 'charging is delayed until power is available' with the ABB kit can refer to load management at the station-all other stalls being operated, power modules availability, etc.
Borat: "...her... became like sleeve of wizard." 😄
Great video, Andrew! Skoda with right software version does support plug and go. It’s interesting, when I charge my Skoda it never increases the charge rate and alway starts high, I’ve seen just over 100 on very rare occasions and decreases rapidly, no heat pump but in ideal conditions supposed to be able to go to 120. I’m always prepared to spend forty minutes to an hour charging then anything better than that is a bonus. It does seem more than a coincidence that the rate increase when less chargers were occupied.
great video chap
Thank you, sir!
I do t think I’d of gone EV had it not been for the fact I can charge from home.
I love these videos, it shows reality. EV’s are the future, but there are buggies to work out!
coming 5 years are gonna bve really important for infrastructure work
@@MrAlexs888 considering what it was like 3 years back, it’s a lot better now. Just super pricy :( but hopefully that expense is being ramped up to help improve the network even further.
great video Andrew. I wonder what I would do in this. Maybe Kia can give me (Take It EV podcast Man) one for a weekend ?
I used my Electroverse card for the first time on a Osprey charger last month, worked first time and the bill turned up on my standard Octopus bill a few days later. Kempower chargers.
They’re the best!
Used mine for the first time today. Really easy
I get my EV (through Octopus salary sacrifice) this Wednesday! Will not do much public charging but I am going to Scotland (from Birmingham) in a few weeks. Does using the Electroverse card means the public charging cost just goes onto my energy bill? So isn’t paid at that point (like if I scanned my bank card)?
@@gregcooper2719 correct you'll get a separate bill from octopus in the same way as your electric and gas bills. And that comes off your credit balance with octopus.
@@Joe-lb8qn so I just need to make sure my DD covers the public charging as well as my home energy? If so that’s genius!
Great video, I’m sure the charge speed issue was just not giving the battery long enough to pre heat. Tesla model 3 would generally take 30 mins plus and more from cold. But preheating meant we got maximum charge curve every time we charged whilst travelling to/from France. Also, on a longer trip where you dc charge multiple times your battery will retain its heat to a large degree so you are not pre heating from scratch and incurring the energy cost multiple times.
I have Plug and Charge working on my 23 plate Enyaq (MEB 3.2 SW). Only works at IONITY at the moment.
My understanding is the issue you had with charger speed was because of the number of vehicles being charged at the the same time and not the vehicle. Thanks for the insight and content
Cheapest way to (public) charge a non-tesla is at a tesla supercharger! All the rest are ripping us off :(
Love your videos , my leafs a 30 and it has exactly 20kw capacity :) that must have 90kwh wow
So it’s had 10kWh degradation?
@@MrEV when it was new probably would have been 27 kWh realy ? Is yours a leaf 24? What's it's battery capacity ?
My Electroverse is useful for my limited charging away from home. The PHEV is only 3.6kW but it's useful for an hour's top-up at Aldi (who seem to be having many chargers on their sites). Mine charges at 10 miles-per-hour as it's only a small battery, but that's fine for a top-up.
Glad you are reviewing the EV9 because it is a nice car, even if it is very expensive, but still cheaper then a range rover.
info:
4 cars at full charge of 350 Mw there would take 1.4 Megga Watts of power thats about 900 homes worth of energy.
So I would think if you are a journalist who is reviewing electric cars, you should expect to know that companies always spread the truth a little thin.
Just because they can utilise 350Mw on each charger does not mean the infrastructure they are connected to can handle that kind of power.
I would expect 2 can deliver at the same time but not all 4. just my own person opinion.
keep up the good work with the reviews. I always find them intresting and informative.
Sadly I don’t think there’s any way of finding out for sure how much grid capacity is available. Maybe I should start digging through planning applications!
My contact at IONITY did insist there were no grid constraints at that site, so I’d be inclined to believe him. Obviously “at that site” is perhaps the key phrase! I imagine other sites do have grid issues occasionally.
It’s why I like Kempower chargers so much as they share the available power intelligently across the whole site. They also say if power is constrained by the charger or the car.
I have a Genesis GV60, so same underlying architecture and there are two things I have noticed. First if you are not able to charge within a minute or two (say issues with the charger) then the battery cools down quickly. Second, I've rarely seen more than 170/180kW in the UK on Ionity, often less, where as when I went to France I was regularly seeing 225/230kW. Net result is I suspect the lower charging performance than expected was probably due to Ionity (based on my personal experiences).
My experience too.. Ionity in the UK seems to be forgotten. On the continent they are reliable and fast.
Ordered the Dongle from your affiliate link for the new Namsan. Cheers for the recommendation.
Stewie
Thanks Stewie! I hope it works well - and hope you enjoy your new Namsan!
@@MrEV Other than ABRP what App do you like to use to see true battery temp, charge, range and so on.
@@stewiemac4017 Car Scanner Pro is the one I use to get all the geeky detail.
@@MrEV 2 hours sitting in the car, later ☺️ thank goodness for heated seats.
There's rather a lot to the (pro) app
I have a SantaFe which beeps and bongs all over the place - crazy!
You can turn the over-speed warning off, indeed you have to if you drive in some countries such as Austria (I believe) as it's not legal to detect speed cameras, and it's only in their approach zones that it bleeps....
With the Kia EV9 you need to slightly lift the charger when first putting into the car as the charger weight is then reduced Known issue
On my LEAF I can adjust the setting for the overspeed warning with an onscreen menu. Perhaps you can do this with the KIA.
I am super familiar with this gas station, I always stop here to fill up with V-Power when I come off the Eurotunnel. On a more relevant note, this is a good video, especially because I own an EV9 and I wanted to see what I am doing wrong during charging, under the absolute best conditions, I cannot get more than about 105 Kw/h charging speed and I am starting to worry if this a defect with my car. I did find that during handshake, it is always best to just hold the plug jammed up against the Kia's charging port until it gets going, feels like a design issue with Kia and I wonder if other EVs have similar problems.
If you are ever on the M61 try charging at Rivington services and see how many times it takes you to get your car charging. The 50kWh charger seems to be the quickest because it starts charging fastest. It would be frustrating beyond belief having a Hyundai, Kia, Genesis with an 800kW system. It's not the cars, its the chargers - still.
It would be interesting to see how much time savings it makes compared to no preheat. As it is using battery to heat the battery then you have to put a lot of waste in just to save a small amount of time. 5mins ? its a guess but it wont be a huge difference I think.
ABB chargers - Always Being Broken. Alpitronic or Kempower FTW! Interestingly Mégane had charge power on their user manual and CZcams demos but some reason it’s not in the finished car :-(
Yep! This here
Actually I don't mind the speed limit bings (in Ioniq 6 they are the same), I do not switch them off, I simply have set the volume to minimum. Then they are noticeable but not as sharp in your ears as with normal settings. BTW: I usually hold the plug until I hear it lock. I cannot say that is the reason why I never had any issues.
We rarely charge anywhere but at home via Octopus overnight / our own solar battery system but if we do need to charge we use Tesla.
Just done a round trip of 160 miles costing roughly £3.00
Used Auto Pilot most of the way so only actually drove the car for a few miles when changing motorways, the Model YLR is a babe !
Yeah, but this is about the EV9 and the Tesla Superchargers are not powerful enough to charge this sensibly quickly.
The unit may be sharing with the person next to you.
I was charging at one station at a very high rate and as soon as someone plugged in next to me it almost dropped in half.
Winter mode ( must be on)
Battery below 21c
Need above 24% soc heater cuts out at 24%
Upper % soc not found still works at 80%
Heater takes 4kw for 30min so you lose 8 miles off range
pre condish
EV9's charging speed seems to be lower than EV6/IQ5. Also, I am boiling, when comparing home charging (7p) vs public charging (93p at BP Pulse) - especially now, when electricity prices went down and will go down even further in July.
Because you are using chargers that are busy .. the chargers split the available power.
I.e. you are at a 350kw fast charger and the power is split between both cars that are connected , so on your side you would expect to get between 125-150kw
As soon as the other cars finish your rate would have increased , if you were not already at the point that the charge rate would decreased by the car anyway due to the higher state of charge in the car.
It really depends on how the stations are designed and as it's cheap skate ionity , they would split the charge between 2 chargers and 4 cables.
Most split between a charge post and two cables and a few of the better ones who use single cable chargers , have a dedicated supply for each charging post
Still watching the video so not got to any tech problems yet, but with regards to the battery pre conditioning, it's dead in the water unless they can incorporate it into android auto or car play. I'm not using their rubbish sat nab software. Another great video though
I have got a Skoda Enyaq 60 and the plug and charge facility works flawlessly with Ionity, I did Euro trip last Summer and it worked in all countries. It is great.
Just on IONITY or other networks too?
@@AndrewEblingI have used plug and charge only on Ionity as it was the cheapest option, when I went past east of Zagreb and Budapest there wasn't Ionity so I used my RFID instead on other CPOs.
I am not aware of any other CPO offering plug and charge
Andrew, as you may know from your E-Niro, the magic temperature is 25 Celsius to get a max charge rate from Kia/Hyundai.
Careful. Ideal charging temp isn’t identical across packs / brands. Example with the new Renault Scenic where the 60kwh pack requires 35 degrees.
@@TommyBoayBut this isn't a Renault. It's an eGMP car and thus far all eGMP cars require 25C at the coldest cell to get maximum speed.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 e-Niro isn’t e-gmp based.
@@TommyBoay No, it isn't. And it clearly uses different cells. Identical thermal behaviour would be coincidential. From that perspective your comment is correct, I got thrown off by your mentioning Renault.
The EGMP cars gate charging at 5° increments 15,20,25
Source: my heaterless Ioniq 5 this winter
Just out of curiosity, do you also have chargers that say "Co-financed by Brexit"?
Nothing is financed by Brexit, only stolen from us.
I have never had full speed out of an Ionity charger - I'd try elsewhere personally. I've seen faster speeds than you got with that car in my MG4 XPOWER using a Shell charging station. Same goes for Instavolt too, slow and expensive.
Sorry to trouble you what is the make of your dongle and where did you get it from?
Many thanks in advance.
It’s the Vgate iCar Pro. You can find an Amazon link here: misterev.co.uk/gear/obd-dongle
Looking at the Battery Power kW while you're driving, I see it dance up and down and hitting negative numbers from time to time. That's not very efficient. It would be better to turn regen braking off during those rural moments, such that you can leverage coasting better. That would improve the efficiency.
It’s fairly hilly so I’m not sure if coasting would be very efficient, as I’d just end up braking anyway? I need two EV9s to test at the same time with different settings!
7:31 Charging is delayed until power is available would suggest that 11:40 maybe the chargers are limited
I love my EV6 but if it started to bong everytime I went 1 mile an hour over the limit, it'd be up for sale the next day! I can't be having to turn it off everytime I start the car. It should allow you to provide a tolerance such as 3/5 or 10%. I am sure they do this for the manual speed adjustment on the EV6's cruise control.
On a charging note. As a sales rep, charging overnight at 7.5p means I am saving £00's per month on fuel. I do public charge occasionally and it hurts when I think how much I've just spent in comparison.
I am tempted by that EV9, but beyond my budget unfortunately, lovely car though.
Ioniq 5 driver here ... Why not change the speed limit settings to adjust the tolerance level ... I can do that in my car and took my knowledge, we have basically the same software? Only alert when 5 kilometres over posted limit?
It is a big car and big battery, but will be suitable for some who need that. As you say the odd rapid charge when you mainly charge at home, is a mere drop in the ocean...so to speak!
My Kia E Niro 4+ has just reached the end of the 3 year lease. I completed 27,572 miles, used 8087.89kWh of electricity and total cost from all charges were £874.26. This gave an overall efficiency of 3.59 miles per kWh over the time of ownership.
That’s pretty good! What’s your next car going to be?
@@MrEV I looked at the new Kia Niro EV, some nice improvements, but Hyundai Kona has had a better improvement IMO. However when all specs and heat pump are added they havepushed near to £45,000. So in the end after several test drives, the new Tesla Model 3 RWD was a lot cheaper, calmer and quieter.
Picked it up 4 days ago and very impressed.with it. From picking up at Manchester it was a 100 mile trip and it gave me 5 miles per kWh!
@@Jaw0lf Congratulations! Yes, the Model 3's efficiency is amazing! How are you finding the lack of stalks?
@@MrEV Well actually, much easier! It surprised me how little you need to interact with the screen apart from the initial setup for the driving controls. Most other stuff is automatic with a few extra buttons on the steering wheel, for flashing headlights, wash wipe and indicators. They work very well, no problems of indicators staying on as just a quick press cancels them, but having said that they cancel promptly. The whole driving experience is far more relaxed and for most options the voice control works.
@@Jaw0lf That's interesting! Great to hear. I really need to give it a go myself.
Shared power to the chargers
Apparently that’s not the case here.
Ive used Ionity a few times with my EV6 and never had it go over 110Kw and thats with noone else charging at the site
I have an Ioniq and I'm keen to look at the battery SoH. Will the Vgate iCar Pro you recommend show me this info on car scanner with Android? Thanks
It should, yes. I actually use the dongle I got for the Leaf - the LELink - but the Vgate should work perfectly. I’ll do a separate video about it soon.
This car is really nice, like the IONIQ 5 (my first option at the beginning)... but this is the reason why I finally went for a Tesla (Model Y), the supercharging network is just brilliant and effortless to use.
True, but I personally always felt ripped off by Tesla. Want to get rid of the annoying aspects of their default driving assist system? That's 3000 dollars/euros extra. Want to get paint so your cybertruck doesnt rust? That's 5000, please. Plus their fast charging prices are not cheap. Also the price varies quite often. I think Tesla is good for people that don't want to think about cost too much and prefer to have it easy.
Ah... a great honest video that is not going to sell any EVs to people without a driveway and a home charger😑. But it is truthful. I really like my e-208 (since May 2021), also because I can stay away from public chargers. And when I want to charge on public chargers, I have encountered similar misery. I'm afraid there is still a long way to go on that front. My experience with FASTNED has been spotless so far. Public fast charging is too expensive. I charge at home on solar PV almost all of the time. If my trip is more than the range, I will fill up at FASTNED juuuust enough to get home.
I can't imagine too many people 'without a driveway and a home charger' will be buying MASSIVE 7 seat EVs.
@@FFVoyager Agreed. But even for the small < 25k€ EVs this remains an issue.
Just driven back from Sainsbury's (other stores are available) in my Tesla Model 3 (refresh) and the car claimed 7 miles per kWh. Not the first time I've seen such efficiency either but it continues to impress.
My 'classic' Ioniq was 7.5mi/kWh over 13 miles (from home and back again) on Friday. You have to measure a round trip - one way can easily be biased by altitude or wind directions.
Suspect battery temp limits, then SoC throttling
Paid about £41 to charge from around 10% to 80% in the Enyaq 80 last week - that was at a ChargePoint/RAW Charging site in Shrewsbury. But that wasn’t even a ultrafast charger, according to ZapMap it’s a 22kWh charger (car could only do 11kWh). Certainly took a few hours…. Ridiculous price for such a slow speed. The payment didn’t seem to be working properly on them - tried to use my Electroverse card but it wouldn’t take it.
You are not paying for speed really, just the kW you take.
I suspect Ionity doesn't know what the grid provider does and with 4 cars charging simultaneously there was a grid limitation. You should try this again in future, at a Gridserve location on a different manufacturer of charging hardware like Kempower instead of Tritium or ABB which Ionity use as their hardware.
Why? Ionity is what one would typically use with this car, as they have enough power and are reliable. Kempower chargers are incredibly rare and most of them are not powerful enough for this car. The Korean 800V cars have the most advanced batteries of any EV currently and thus charge faster than everyone else. For this to happen, you need to stick to the known and established 300kW+ networks such as Ionity or FastNed.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 Because if you watch Bjorn and read forums on charging hardware or real world user experiences you will quickly find out that ABB Bjorn calls Always Be Broken and Tritium well I don't need to say much having seen first hand broken chargers and literally months of delays due to supply issue from what they provided to us users. Kempower aren't that rare anymore and are highly reliable from using them and watching Bjorn use them along with of course Alpitronics and Delta hardware. Grid providers however still control how much power can be used at a given site they don't want blackouts due to a charging site over pulling power at certain times of the day. Where batteries and some onsite solar can be useful to help with demand peaks at charging sites.
If you added 200 miles that price works out about the same as driving a diesel range rover. Rapid charging isn't cheap but it seems to be no worse than ICE prices. *really rough price and mpg estimates*
Thanks for that! I'm kicking myself for not saying the same in the video.
Battery preconditioning has always been annoying in anything non tesla. Thanks for sharing the entire experience. I did 10-80% in an Ioniq 6 in 23 mins iirc and that was close enough to manufacture specs
It needs to be battery min temp 25°C to hit max speed and low enough state of charge.
You had about 16° battery min temp, I think. It makes jumps in 5° increments (ie, 15, then 20 then 25°).
So there’s a sign saying contactless payment not accepted, and it doesn’t work. Then you use the app and it does work?
Is this operator error?
“Contactless payments” refers to bank cards, not RFIDs like I was using.
"Contactless payment currently not accepted" on the machine 😂😂
That’s referring to bank cards, it doesn’t apply to RFIDs as I was trying to use.
I’m planning to drive from Merseyside to Brighton in my new EV in July. After seeing your issues with the Ionity charger, I’m feeling slightly worried.
I've heard from a few people that have told me the EV9 has an issue with the weight of the plug sometimes so it needs holding in place while the charging starts.
So assuming you have any other EV, you should be absolutely fine. I don't want to scare you off at all - I very rarely have any issues!
Thanks, it’s an Ioniq 5, arriving May-June. I’ll try holding the plug until charging starts. I guess Hyundai/Kia cars might all use the same sockets.
@@hishamg And I'm not even slightly envious. Not at all. 😃 You'll love it! Have fun!
I drive a VW id3 77 Kwh, sick of waiting around at chargers considering the price so we just take the diesel outlander, seriously considering going back to petrol , not really into this EV stuff any more since 2015.
You did see the sticker say contactless payment not currently accepted??
That’s referring to bank cards. I was trying an RFID.
What model of ev9 is this vehicle Andrew?
EV9 GT-line AWD 6 seater with light gray / black interior and ocean blue mat exterior color
Looks like the charger had issues
8 min in is the true joy of using an ev
Just add rain and another car rocking up and taking the only spare spot left and you’d be peak ev
Almost! You forgot to mention that the car next to you burst into flames.
@@djtaylorutube now that would be epic! I did once have a lady kick off massively because she didnt see me queuing for a charger and she rocked up and tried to drive straight in while I was reversing.... she calmed down but shows how angry people get 🤣
@@AnotherBoring43yearold yes and that's the difference between an EV charge and a queue jumper at a petrol pump. The pump we get grumpy, might have a mini strop but it's 3 minutes right? An EV could be an hour difference if they *need* 100% because *reasons*.
@@djtaylorutube the issue we have found in 7 years of driving evs long distance in uk is it comes down to etiquette & morals which is always dangerous
@@AnotherBoring43yearold yes and I don't see it getting any better, given the absolute sense of entitlement that we regularly see with drivers each day.
Hi. As far as I interpret your documentation, you started at 10% and ended at 80% --> so the promise of KIA is 20-80 in 25 minutes. So there is a difference of 10 % from the beginning. Or am I wrong?
On the Kia UK website it says 10-80% in 24 minutes.
The EV charges not the charge point/EVSE. It’s a poplar misconception, charge points are not chargers.
That's a bit pedantic! Everyone knows a 'charger' means the same as a charge point.
Even Tritium say "reliable DC fast chargers" on their homepage. tritiumcharging.com
@@MrEV you’ll find few people know or understand that it’s the EV that does the charging, and most people blame an EVSE when in fact it was the EV that created the issue. But then you knew that.
@@G6EJD That's more the case with AC charge points, as the car has an onboard charger and does the AC to DC conversion itself, but as I understand it, that's not the case with DC chargers (charge points!) - so I think it's still fair to call them chargers.
And yes, there could well be issues with the EVs problems when charging. In fact, that's probably what happens most of the time.
@@MrEV the correct terminology is an EVSE - Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. For DC charging, the role of the EVSE is to negotiate with the EV what DC voltage is required for charging, so it has to rectify the incoming AC Grid feed to DC and usually the voltage will be varied on the AC feed side of the EVSE. After negotiation the EV Battery Management System (BMS) will continuously re-negotiate the required DC voltage needed to charge the battery. However, it is not as simple as that, because modern battery chemistries require a 3-stage charging regime. The first stage is Constant Voltage, where the charge voltage remain constant, and this allows the electro-chemical conversion process to happen quite quickly, but this generates lots of heat, hence batteries have cooling systems usually with fans to dissipate the excess heat energy. The second stage is a Constant Current charge, now the voltage delivered by the EVSE is varied continuously so that the batteries receive a constant charge current, this is needed to allow the electro-chemical reaction to slow down and cool the battery, so the BMS has a lot of work to do in communicating with the EVSE to get the right voltage delivered. Finally the 3rd stage begins where each individual cell is charged independently to ensure each cell reaches the same voltage, this stage is called balancing or sometimes conditioning. There is no standard EV battery voltage and the range is about 250v to 800v DC, so you can’t simply plug 800v DC onto a 400v battery; well you could, but it would be destroyed near instantaneously. All these tasks are performed by the on-board BMS. Also, that includes temperature management of the battery using its climate controls. The EVSE can’t do any of these functions. When you listen to an EVSE start to supply power, you will hear contactors close, usually cooling systems start as the conversion of AC to DC can be an inefficient process creating waste heat that needs to be dissipated. Some EVSE’s perform these tasks away from the EVSE station; typically in a green cabinet. So all I’m saying is that they are not chargers they are an electrical energy supply point, tantamount to a domestic power socket, but on a much larger scale.
BTW if you study the charging curve of any EV, you will see the 3-stages being performed. Usually the initial rate is very high (constant voltage), then it slows to constant current and you’ll see a flat region, then finally typically at 80%, balancing starts and the charging slows right down, often to a trickle of energy, that can last many hours as it tries to equalise all the cell voltages. All this is needed to prevent battery damage and fires.
Can you turn off the bings and bongs? I have the EV6 and you can turn them all off permanently
It’s not possible in EV9 unfortunately.
you know what, in 2 years of having a model Y i've never had to "try a different supercharger!" - thats why you cant beat Tesla!
Yes - I’ve also never known a broken Supercharger.
Excellent video Andrew, can't believe the cost of an EV9, I am looking for an ev but bring a petrol head it's a hard transition 😃
It's not cheap... although compared to the Volvo EX90 and whatever the new Range Rover Electric will cost, it's an absolute steal!
And this is why I went for a tesla model 3 rather than an EV6.. Tesla superchargers...they just work
Yes, it's generally far easier with a Tesla.
Unfortunately they are 350kw if the load is not being shared.
My contact at IONITY did tell me that’s not the case at this site?!
The annoying 'speed limit noise' - is that set at actual speed, or reading from the speedometer - which generally under read by 10% or so?
I'd not be too bothered if it is actual (GPS measured) speed but if it's taking it from the inaccurate information given to the driver then it's not just annoying, it's warning you way too early!
Exactly! It’s from the speedo. Madness.
@@MrEV that's really bad.
Perhaps they will tweak the software to ping at 10% over
@@MrEV There will be soon an update where you can turn it off quickly by holding a button on the steering wheel.
strange as on my EV6 I'm pretty sure I need at least 20% SOC for the conditioning to work... like a charge safety margin. I find selecting the actual charger is critical. Post code is no good, it must be the high speed charger which is easiest to select through Points of Interest.
I always lift and support the connector until it hand shakes. I find the condition of the charger heads can be a real issue. They need to be maintained. That was probably the maximum IONITY were allowing per charger when busy.
I’m getting 4.6 miles per kWh out of my new Hyundai Kona electric that’s with the temperature at about 12 degrees
I drove my e-Niro on a round-trip today and got 4.7 miles/kWh. Kona and e-Niro are amazingly efficient. But it's unfair of us to compare them to the EV9. For anyone with a big family, EV9 is a good option.
Obviously people getting them that don't need all that space should perhaps consider a smaller EV or it's just throwing money away.
Is it just me, or are there people commenting here who have literally no😢better to do but complain about EVs and charging? If you don’t like EVs, please just go away and do something else instead. Saying that waiting to charge is a waste of time, but it’s no where near the tragic was of time of watching videos and then complaining. 🤦♂️🤣
I’ve watched most of Andrew’s videos - I’m an ICE driver but interested in EV’s. I think people have valid concerns that chargers are not reliable. Number of faulty fuel pumps I’ve encountered in 40 years of driving - one. For many a working day requires certain times they can take a break - not dictated by when the car decides it needs to be charged/refuelled. I enjoy Andrew’s videos as I appreciate his honesty.
I don't blame them. I had similar thoughts before switching, and it turned out that it all were misconceptions by me, because I was transferring petrol approaches 1:1 over to the EV world, like "if you are at the petrol station, you always fill the tank to 100%". It takes time to adapt. Little time if you actually own a EV or rent one for a month or so.
These nay sayers are a real pain as when I had a ICE car I filled it up at least once a week which took never less than 10mins. Not to mention smelly hands from the diesel. Now I set off from home with a "full" tank and just plug it back in again when at home; taking seconds.
Ok on a long journey I plug in but I am doing something else, never sat in the car waiting so it is dead time that the ICE car would also just be sat there.
Last long journey I did I was amazed at how many options there are now for Rapid charging - to an extent I did not bother planning the A, B & C options I would have done even just last year.
Silly people.
So looking forward to 10 years time when there are less and less garages selling the ICE fluids and they are driving 30mins out of there way to get the stuff as all the garages have closed down. Wonder what the price for the ICE fluids will be then.
@@CockmageLVL99 Exactly. Too many people do that and can't/won't change their mindset. Over the past five years, all the people petrified of change have turned into keyboard warriors typing their fear out day after day on social media. They really need to get out more and experience real life.
@@ians3328 Absolutely. One of the main things they close their minds to is the change in the market - fewer refuelling points for them and a higher price. We already start to see this in my country, where EV uptake is visible and charging points are like mushrooms, mainly installed by the local authorities. There are still many naysayers, whose main one-word comment is 'Hydrogen' (though I think we're too far down the road for that to ever become a reality for private vehicles), but I think they are mainly city-dwellers who probably don't need a car much anyway.
I would say that the charger was limiting the available power and sharing it between charge points. Tesla superchargers seem to be in pairs (and on occasions threes and fours) so you know it will be shared if somebody is charging next to you. The other thing to look at as to see how the battery temperature goes up while charging. MIGHT be that it is still heating it while you try to charge. (The model 3 seems to pre-condition an hour away from a charger which seems nuts as that could be 60 miles). Looking at your OBD data I think it said it was 38/39 degrees near the end.
I can well believe that there could be issues with doing the handshake. I dont know how its actually done but I would guess data lines may only be at 5v so maybe easy to lose data signals in an electrically noisy environment.
Supercharges are usually labelled 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b and so on. Its those that might be 1a, 1b, 1c & 1d that could be a lot slower.
Regarding charging, my first criticism of the EV9 when I first saw it (as with all Kia EVs), is the charge port is on the wrong axis to use TESLA superchargers. Needs to be on reat left (or front right). Why can't all manufacturers have their ports on this axis?
You just don’t go to Tesla with an e-gmp because of the shitty power you get on their stales.
Why can't Tesla chargers have longer leads?
@@100tinsoldiers they do with the new v4 stales. They now even get card payment option.
@@TommyBoay that’s good, will be useful now everyone can use them, even better not block 2 chargers because the cables are too short.
The other thing that affects the charging is the number of Ionity units in use as the overall power to the site may be limited
My man at IONITY insists that's not the case at this site.
Are ionity chargers paired? It seems like you were splitting power with the charger next to you
No, IONITY chargers aren’t paired. I agree it might seem like that was the issue here but IONITY insisted it’s not.
Sadly it's definitely the car's problem.
E-GMP is super quick under ideal condition but pretty terrible in not ideal conditions to the point where I am considering another car if they don't change it.
-A huge pain to start (at least on the gen5w system) having to use the GPS and so many chargers are missing.
-Takes about 45 minutes to get to the correct temperature (in about 5 degrees C weather), so you definitely didn't pre-condition long enough.
-Doesn't work under 20%, so basically you need to start with at least 40-50% battery considering how long it takes.
Everybody talks how fast the 10-80% is under perfect condition, but if you live in a colder country it's terrible and will take about 45-50 minutes without pre-condition and 0 degrees to charge an Ioniq 5.
From what I have seen a BMW i4 for example is quicker to charge in cold weather than an Ioniq 5 , even though at summer speed the Hyundai is 12 minutes faster.
One of the thing that the new Scenic mentions is they are able to achieve maximum speed with the battery around 24c or something, which nobody talks about but it is fantastic instead of the 30-35c most batteries seem to need to be at.
So if you car did 10 miles per litre (40mpg) thats 230p per litre ouch!
I don’t like those chargers (was it ABB?), they are the only ones where I often have issues.
And the display interface sucks too.
Yes, ABB chargers can have issues with newer cars apparently.
No problems being a "shill" if the thing you are selling is better.
I think Ionity had an issue. I don't think that was a coincidence your charging rate increased when the other cars left. £47? wow, not too long ago EV drivers were trumpeting the cost savings over petrol.
As someone else mentioned, the cost probably isn’t much different to refuelling a Range Rover. Still far too expensive though obviously!
@@MrEV Have you broken down the cost per mile vs petrol and diesel cost per mile if you just used fast charging? ie for similar vehicles?
I overheard a Tesla technician the other day and he said the battery preconditioning on Tesla used to heat the battery up to 35 degC, but they've changed it now so it heats up to 40 degC as this reduces the time the car spends at a supercharger.
Your battery preconditioning probably did almost nothing in the time you were driving to the charger. I find in my Model Y, it will take a good 45 minutes.
Took my wife's Kia Picanto to the car wash this morning, on the way out went to an Asda self service petrol pump and it took 2 mins. I love watching your videos and I love the concept of EVs but I really couldn't be arsed waiting that length of time. Maybe in a couple of years time I will lease an EV and see how it goes.
This was a test, people that own EVs do not typically charge their car like that, you just plug it in when you come back home. Also, the charging experience varies with Tesla being the easiest, so again this may not be your typical experience at rapid chargers if you decide to go for an EV
@@jason8966 They also only count the time the fuel is flowing, so at best it's downplayed.
@@jason8966 I understand most folk with EVs have home chargers and this was a test but most folk don't have driveways to charge on. Totally different if you are going on a long journey and waiting for your car to charge while having a break. If the EV experiment is going to work we need more charges and quicker charging times.
@@davidtaylorbfdThe stats are not that clear, in urban areas yes, most people don't have a driveway but some won't have a car either. What we need though is charging when the car is stopped not quicker chargers as they are hugely expensive, draw a lot of power needing a lot of infrastructure and creates a less than ideal experience for the drivers. Seamless chargers at supermarkets, shopping centres, lamp posts etc that work exactly like Tesla chargers do (without the need to swipe cards) is what is needed.
On this video EV9 went from 10% to 80% in 24min. I think Ionity charger was the problem. czcams.com/video/z8EXWeoHe_w/video.htmlsi=zWGKA3R00hIRJ6XM
I do admire you non-Tesla enthusiasts. Great resiliance in the face of ropey chargers and second rate car interface. Second hand Teslas are £19k now... I'd just get one of those and no faffing about with charging. Way cheaper per charge too.
If I had to rely on public charging all the time then perhaps I would, but personally I don't love Teslas. Call me old school, but I like physical buttons and switches too much!
Not really impressed with this chargers speed or that the preheat turned off before you got to the charger making a test of their charging time impossible. Another time if there is one near you please see what speeds you get on a Tesla charger that is open to the non Tesla public. It would have been cheaper if not faster
Not a chance will I get an EV, the anxiety would be through the roof.
Tech is always improving so never say never! It’s very rare for me to have any issues like this. I am fortunate to be able to charge at home though.
Currently own ionic5 thanks largely to your early vids. I am forever defending EVs from my diesel friends. However, this video demonstrates the frustrations. It did not take 32 minutes - you need to add the time to faff with preconditioning and searching for a charger that works. There is no longer fuel savings to be made. In 2 years I may just go back to diesel 😢
Clearly said contact less payment not available lol
“Contactless payments” means debit/credit cards. It doesn’t apply to RFIDs.
@@MrEV
I think you might be wrong there, don’t all the cards whatever the type use RFID to be contactless?
@@antcartwright2514 It's not clear labelling at all, but I've used RFID cards at countless IONITY chargers, and all have had the same "contactless payment not available" message. Here's one example for instance: czcams.com/video/bA6XvrHpTWU/video.htmlsi=wiodRVPBySit2Sl0&t=160
All IONITY chargers work with loads of roaming networks, all of which use RFID cards. (Shell, Octopus Electroverse, Chargemap and many others).
@@MrEV
So it’s a happy coincidence that it worked first time (I think) with the app and not at all with the RFID reader? You’ll have to forgive me as I’ve lived in the USA for the past 20 something years so I’m not familiar with the different type of what you’re calling RFID cards. I would say though that your other ‘bank issued’ cards also contain an RFID chip to be ‘contactless’. Isn’t that how the technology works?
I can also say that if that had been me at the charging station, I’d have seen the sticker above the ‘tap to pay’ device and used the app. Well no my wife would have seen it as I would not be wearing my reading glasses 😊
However there should be no ambiguity in payment types, it should be easy for everyone and it clearly wasn’t.
@@antcartwright2514 It's more likely it worked because I held the plug in the car's connector. Apparently it's a known issue with some EV9s (I've been told after I published the video).
You're absolutely right that bank cards have RFID chips, but there's a lot of payment processing that has to happen in the background to accept bank cards. Most chargers in the UK do accept bank cards so it's a pain that IONITY don't.
New IONITY chargers do accept bank cards, but just to make things more annoying, you have to wave your card in another place - not the area I was using!
But yes, it's a minefield and all quite ridiculous!
Every single video about chargers is really an ad for Tesla's superchargers. People watching this thinking of going EV will be running for the hills
I'm right on the point of buying my first EV, a new shape pre-reg Kona and I'm certainly NOT "running for the hills". I know there's problems but I also know that generally it's OK. Things regarding public charging are improving and will only get better.
@@gazza595That's great, but like you say, you have already decided to go EV. Given EVs are better than ICE cars in every way, the vast majority of people should only be thinking of getting an EV. They are not, and part of the problem is that issues like these showcased here are ammunition in the hands of people that want to delay the transition. If you are biased against EVs because of a planted articles by big oil that you've read and watch this, you'll be much less likely to change your mind, it only serves as reinforcement to the bias.
Problem is there are too many variables at play with charging speeds. Not even Tesla is immune from this
Why, get a home charger a doddle and cheap as chips.
@@kevinwalton4538 sorta useless on a road trip
charger says part of the eu, but you guys left. easy fix.....
This entire ordeal along with the final charging cost is a loud "stay away!!!" message for electric cars, basically...
Thankfully not a short , there really boring and quite annoying
EU want their chargers back.
No. Unless you can go from 0 to 100% in 3 mins . As per a petrol car. No good
Most people in the UK can charge at home. That's far cheaper and more convenient than going to a petrol station as they charge while you're sleeping.
Obviously charging on the go is a bit more faff, but as I say in the video, 30 minutes after driving 200 miles wouldn't be too much hassle for most families.
Is it always excuses why these cars don't charge at the rate they actually do? Just like excuses why these cars can't drive as far as they say they do?
Batteries currently just don’t charge at a constant rate (that’s all batteries: not just EVs). There are a few new types of batteries coming soon that are less bothered about temperature and will charge much faster. (Sodium-ion for instance.)
As for the range, all cars (EV or ICE) suffer from the same overly-optimistic claims! That said my Kia e-Niro is much closer to the claimed 280 miles. Regularly exceeding it in summer.
@@MrEV OK, I don't think I would be ready for an EV for a few years yet. I want longer range like 500-600 miles and charging in 5 to 10 minutes. I would like to see the insurance to come down on them as well.
But respecting your advise, thanks
@@nottmfunguy We're probably not far off that actually. The Zeekr 001 (a Chinese car) charges in 11 minutes (to 80%) with 450-mile range. Insurance is a whole other ball game though! I agree, it needs to come down. Although my e-Niro wasn't too bad and in-line with insurance across the whole industry. Some brands seem much worse than others.
carnewschina.com/2024/02/07/new-zeekr-001-revealed-with-95-kwh-lfp-battery-for-722-km-range/
@@MrEV I cant take such a financial hit with an EV, they are expensive and I worry about the depreciation. Plus my car a 4x4 tows a horse box, sometimes with 2 of my wife's horses in it, so I think that would be an issue, they are heavy beasts. I think I will be waiting for a number of years before considering an EV.