Astron V Mustard Capacitors (Vintage Replica Comparison)
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2016
- A comparison between two famous analogue era capacitors. Jupiter Red Astrons Vs Jupiter Yellow Mustards. These are new replicas made to vintage specifications. Both amps have exactly the same value capacitors installed in exactly the same positions. Only the model of capacitors is different. Please note that these are both new sets of capacitors, straight off the shelf, minus burn in time. They are replicas of the old classics.
I made two Identical amps with only the capacitors being different.
Amps are W.I.S.C Diesel/Turbos. Approx 5W.
2 x Telefunken 12AX7's and 1 x Mullard EL84. I used the same tubes for both amps (I swapped them in and out of each amp).
Cabinet is a 4 x 12 Fender Custom Shop Tonemaster 1990's.
Speakers are 2 x Rola alnico's, 1 x G12T75, 1 x G12H30 Heritage.
Mic is a US made Shure SM57.
Digital Interface is Apogee Duet V1.
Guitar is a custom made LP, custom pickups.
Camera is a Canon 70D. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
One of the best comparisons ever. Thanks
Glad you uploaded this man.
I just finished two deluxe builds - one with red the other with yellow jupiters and I noticed a stark difference. I already dropped the one amp off to my client so I couldn't go back and do a proper a/b comparison so the question was constantly nagging in my head.
My memory of the two builds is congruent with this video. The reds seemingly allowed for more high end response and allowed for a much grittier sounding circuit.
Nice! I too was very surprised at the difference. Not even subtle. I liked both for different aoplications. Well done 👍
Nice come back in a few months of playing each and do it.
Unique video... Thank-You, very inspiring info indeed !!
Hi, wow that's pretty interesting I do like the tone with yellow mustard the most, thanks for the video.
Hi Matt! Thanks for dropping by again, have a great day, take care!
Wow! Such a difference. I can’t say which one is better, but I’m just amazed.
Thank you, yes I too was very surprised, cheers
I liked the yellow, the red seemed to cut off too much treble. Great demo.
Interesting... I liked the sound of the red ones for your clean sounds, but preferred the sound of the yellow caps for the overdriven tones. Very neat, thank you!
Thanks Britt! I agree too, I'm glad my ears do not deceive me. Cheers
I wonder if you could have a two-channel amp that uses each cap type for the clean/drive channels respectively to get the more desired characteristics. Obviously, the gain structuring of the channel would play a bigger role, but the caps certainly would help to accentuate the desired traits.
Awesome test and looks at one go !!! But still youtube does not give a complete idea. Tell me. And if in the crossover acoustics put Jupiter Vintage tone, it will sound good ????? And what kind of sound do you think they have ??? Tonality, softness, emotionality, detail ???? Thank you!!!
ohh my good! That cond sound SO different!
What happens at the 1:20 mark, I hear some crunchies? Are you using any effects? The reds seem brighter, but have a nicer crunch. To me anyway. I just finished all of the function tests on a brown Deluxe build. I'm thinking I will use the yellows.
Good video. All I know is that the Mustard Caps outlive the reds and most other brands. I have found/tested/ installed 60 year old Mustard astrons and they still work like new!! Be good to have both sets in a chassis and switch to choose "Yellow/Red" cos Humbuckers sound woodier and clearer with the yellow and Strat/tele with reds cos of the extra "lift" , let's face it they all sound good and if you can do it just have 2 amps yellow/red. Don't need pedals coz they smother the natural tone. Best tone I heard was the yellows with a les paul.P90 special with the vol at 4/5 on the guitar, clean and almost acoustic in character. More experiments please.
Great comparison video!It was very helpful.BTW,what is the name of piano music in intro of video?I love it.Pls tell me.
These capacitors generally have the average tolerance of 30%, (current manufactures says 10% but in 1950, the tolerance reached 50%) which can change in a lot, the gain, the bass and treble using the same parts is impossible 2 amplifiers be the same. the correct test should be done with identical capacitors on both amplifiers but this is impossible in practice.
Ben Hur Geraldes you need to use the same amp and measure the caps to ensure they are the same value. The caps are expensive and it is a hassle.
@@Mark70609 then it goes to show that the perceived differences are more likely due to tolerances than to capacitor brand.
As far as I could tell from video the Brand is the same, Maybe the materials inside are different.
Don't throw your old bumblebee/astron/whatever caps out if they're leaky. You can boil them in wax to get the moisture out and it will have 0 leakage after that, for a year now the ones I "reformed" haven't gotten leaky.
Take some wax, paraffin or beeswax, or mix them, melt it in a can, over a candle. Then with caps like astrons, try to break off the outside shell without damaging the internals, then put it in the wax (make sure it's hot enough to boil the water out, which it will start to show bubbles when you put in the cap)... Then leave it there until the bubbles completely stop, takes around 5 hours.
If you want to reform them with mineral oil instead you'll have to get a vacuum pump, otherwise the oil decomposes at the high temperature, although it still works and doesn't leak.
With a vacuum pump the boiling point of water will be reduced until it boils at room temperature, so put the cap in a can of mineral oil, pull a high vacuum on it, and leave it for again ~5 hours until the bubbles stop
Then you can put the shell back on with epoxy or something, if you seal it good enough it shouldnt leak ever again. The reason they leak in the first place is because they aren't sealed good enough and slowly draw in moisture.
Very cool... Any chance of another documented guitar build (and views of your cool workshop) in the near future?
Hi Vergil, sorry for delay in reply, I really hope to do a guitar build soon, its just life not serving me up the spare time so its a bit ard, but hopefully I'll get there, have a great day!!
The clean sound is Great
wow the yellow ones seem more mellow
Way cool editing.
Red cap amp seems to have more clarity or sizzle on the treble side and the yellow cap amp seems a little warmer sounding, still both sound great!
Thanks Ron! I agree, interesting difference indeed. Cheers!
On clean tone the vintage ones sounds more open (or less low mids maybe) and with overdrive tone its just opposite. Interesting comparison.
I completely agree Diego, thanks for that and hope your projects are doing good!
I had to watch this twice. Once to hear the difference in the capacitors, and a second time to enjoy the beauty of the video without the sound.
Thank you! Glad you liked it!!
I keep going back and forth.. I do think the reds feel more vintage, especially on overdrive. Anyway, another great video!
Thanks WD! Have a great day! Hope you are doing great
Hi,
Did you check their real capacitance and compare the old ones to replicas?
I suppose that the old ones could lose some capacitance over time due to aging, this could explain the sound difference.
Both sets of capacitors are new (minus burn it time). They are replicas of the old mustards and astrons. Both sets were checked for any major value discrepancy and all were accurate. I wanted to find out the true difference in tone, if any, between capacitors and hence took all measures possible. Everything is exactly the same in both amps, even down to wire, sockets, tubes etc. I was surprised at the difference myself, indeed.
Legendary one piece LP))) Love that guitar)))
Thanks again Alek! Have a good one my friend!
Love that guitar !
That was a really cool little shootout. The Astrons seemed a little brighter, but the tone of the Yellow Mustards was just plain tasty!
Is this the same amp that you built last year? The one with the carbon fiber shell?
Thanks CSJKD! Hope you are doing good! Indeed these amps are the same circuit as the amp with the carbon shell. I agree, the yellow mustards have beautiful note separation and are my preferred for gain. The reds certainly are sparkly in the clean channel. I guess thats why they were loved in the big clean Fenders. I was quite surprised at the difference, quite cool. Have a great day!!
what is the red caps???
Much prefer the reds, although the first mild OD tone of the yellows was sweet. Yellows sounded nasally, reds a little punchier. But then I like a Strat rather than a LP, so maybe it's personal preference for glassier tones.
The difference in the voltage rating of the caps will make a slight difference. A higher voltage rated cap has a thicker internal metal film coil which will cause more resistance in the signal. The possible reason the red caps have more "buzz" or output is because they have less material for the signal to travel through and therefore more output. I've done this exact experiment on a strat and lower voltage rated caps had more output.
Thanks for the input Chris. It is certainly an interesting topic. That all makes sense. To my ears the Reds were great for cleans as they were a bit righter and cleaner sounding, the yellows were totally awesome for crunch, just glorious note separation. I actually have some real yellow mustards from back in the day. I am looking fwd to building an amp with them too. Cheers!
elams1894 I would love to start a collection of nos caps, resistors, pots, and all the components to build an amp one day. Specifically a Marshall plexi clone
Definitely heard some differences on certain licks. Other licks,not as much. I DO like Jupiter,tho. I hear techs say theyo don’t do anything special or sound unique. And if you’re building 500 amps at one time for sales, they probably aren’t special enough to make sense. But they’re GREAT for certain repairs in certain amps or for building a small number of amps to play yourself or to sell. Sozo’s are ALSO great. Especially their silver mica’s.They seem to sound like a nice mix of ceramic and film capacitors
Thanks William! I was quite surprised at the difference, the reds particularly sparkly for cleans and the yellows having great note separation and slightly rolled off highs, great for blues/rock. Love sozos too. You have some interesting amps on your channel, well done 👍
I don't think you can say this is a true A/B test as it is assumed the amps are exactly the same. You have to ask yourself what is the tolerance on the transformers?
The resistors have a 5% tolerance too, even the tolerance of the caps makes a difference.
In short, I'm saying this test isn't terrible, but I think there are limitations to it.
I would have used a looper to play though the amp too that way you can attribute difference to not playing the guitar riffs exactly the same.
I did use a looper with the same track. The tranny's are exactly the same. The circuits are identical. The only difference is the caps. It's the best that can be done without using the same amp and swapping out the caps, but I hear what you are saying. There are limitations. Burn in time etc.
The test shown was far more helpful than if not done at all.
nice - the reds are warmer or thicker in the mids the yellow seem cleaner
Bang on Johnny! The yellows were nice and separated to my ears, and indeed a bit cleaner. Hope you doing great my friend! Hows that Titanium Tremolo? That thing is a beast man!!
There is a difference in the caps and the gain and the clarity , warmth etc.... the titanium trem - It's awesome - That guitar is a prototype for people to handle at guitar shows and it;s beautiful - at almost a grand that tremolo is not for most ....
This comparison really isn't fair. The only way you could really tell is to use the same amp and swap the caps. The resistors have tolerance too and no way to say they're all the same between both amps. That tolerance difference on a resistor could make a difference in tube bias, etc.
1% tolerance resistors. You can barely tell apart when resistors have drifted 10% apart, only noticeable difference is gain. Tube bias would not change the treble response, you can crank it way hot or way cold it wont suddenly sound like you've rolled the tone control half way down on your guitar.
Hi. this is really surprising and drives me to think that as there is no magic in electronics has to be a reason giving potentially the 80% of the sound change. Pareto lwa should apply here.
I like this kind of test.... I would like to see which one of the caps is making the most of the difference in tone .I tend to think that most of them are not relevant in the tone change but has to be some very specific of them giving the most part of the effect. From that point of understanding will be possible to ascertain the real reason of the change.
Off course the difference in the sound is not because something is "vintage" ( this is what "vintage" equipment sellers wants us to believe and then to pay a fortune for it...).
Looks like there is a higher low pass effect from using the old one than in the replica. If the cacitance is identical then we will have to look for some other factors like the dielectric residual impedance . Regards
Thanks Harry! I too was quite surprised at the difference. The note separation of the Yellow Mustard replicas was very pronounced. I'm glad there was a difference and glad others pick it up too. Thanks for your comments and have a great day!!
caps in the signal path make a huge difference in tone. I wouldn't go overboard with the whole overpriced vintage voodoo. as long as the caps are high quality the amp will sound great. I prefer Mallorys and Spragues
I like Team Red.....
Thanks Joe, I like Team Red very much for clean, nice and bright, cheers
interesting ty. maybe tune next time?
good comparation tanks
What if you mix them?
That would be pretty cool, cheers!
red are clearer sounding more in the highs
The Jupiter Yellow Mustards definitely have a warmer tone than the Red Astrons.
That's what I find as well, cheers!!
Red might sound better with humbuckers, yellow with single coils
I appreciate the intent, but the performance needs to be much more consistent to hear the differences.
Thanks Prof, I appreciate the input, good call!
I'm failry sure you aren't Chef John. But that's OK. I forgive you. :)
Chef John and I are Final Cut Pro Jingle Brothers ha ha. I'll give him a call later and tell him you said Hi! Cheers
I am not expert here, but shouldn't all that be shielded in the cabinet instead of in the open air? I know even having light hit the parts can induce sound. Cool video though. good job overall, just my two cents.
Indeed you would shield the chassis inside its cabinet. I use aluminium tape or copper if you want to spend the pingers. In this instance, for the video, I had the amps out of cabinet and there wasnt any 50 cycle hum or interference so all was good to go, cheers.
AHh cool, like I said, I am no expert. I can't even imagine doing what you do. Your videos are great.
+will smith Thanks Will. Its a very relevant question actually as shielding in and around the chassis are up there with the most important aspects so good spotting. Have a great day, thanks again
I looked at Jupiter capacitors about 15 years ago when all they had were the wax filled. Their prices are unreal, just like Jenson. Now they offer paper in oil, but they are using mineral oil; the same stuff you use to light an oil burning lamp. They are a fire hazard. Askarel was the fluid used in capacitors when they discovered that mineral oil in electronic devices causes fires in the early 1900s. Now it is a banned substance. Jupiter is not a sane company to buy from in my opinion. They write their own rules and charge for their labor as if someone has given them some kind of divine rights. I’d like to see the difference between the sound you’re getting with these two Jupiter caps and the original vintage ones from that era.
Another problem they seem to exhibit is a strong dislike to temperature changes and any sort of anti-oxidant/ contact cleaner in their vicinty as it causes them to fall apart.
Still thses caps need about 200 hours of break in time before they sweeten up -
HI Johnny!! Indeed I agree, bit more burn in time would really do them justice. Have a great day my friend!
I think the mustard caps are cleaner but i also like the red ones for a strat through the same amp to warm up a strat a touch
I also love it when the tch guys say the same value of cap will sound the same - I call that the "tin" ear syndrome - thanks for taking the time to show us all the difference - you rock !
I think I like the yellow ones but Im a nerd so - the red ones have more attitude in a way ... by the way this is an excellent production the filming everything well done !
Thanks so much Johnny! Appreciate it.
Team Yellow
Red=darker in a pleasant way. Shows how subjective this stuff is.
Thanks for that, yes the ears are a wonderful thing, what I e person hears, another perceives in a.cometely different way. Cheers
Looks like rebranded mallory 150 caps which according to most botique builders are the finest components, i do not agree but who am i to cast shade on an enterprise, clever no? Dont get me started on bozo caps.
The point of the vid is to display that there are tone differences in different types of capacitors. What brand of cap the individual prefers is their own choice as always. Certainly some caps are insane money, some aren't. Whatever best suits ones purpose. A good enterprise though, I agree. Cheers Noel.
reds seem tinny
it I'm getting good sound over my phone
Thanks Krusty!! have a good one!
Yq vys
Yq bud
Yw
ok
I can´t subscribe to you chanel... ??
How strange, now it works...
Honestly No idea why it was unsubbed...
Seems like CZcams hawe some tecnical issues...
Gremlins in the system, I've come across the exact same thing myself. Glad things smoothed out in the end. Have a good one!
elams1894
I just don´t want to miss a single one of Your great videos! :)
I hate Jupiter caps.