Ukraine Air Force Using iPads
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2024
- Gonky and Mover discuss news from Ukraine of fighter pilots using iPads with new weapons systems. www.businessinsider.com/ukrai...
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They're using the iOS "AirDrop" feature!!! 😂
You sir, win the Internet today! 😂
@@user-ho1yn6ms7y not even close
"updating please wait"
Nice
You win the “internet is undefeated” award lol
Lockheed will be charging $2M for that iPad mounted on F16
*for the mounts^^
ipad not included ;)
And don’t forget:
Mil spec certified usb-c power cable @ $91.338
the 28/5V adapter for $ 227.342
From WW1 era machine guns to Star-Link, all in the same war.
brings a tear to my eye
To be fair. Medium size machineguns have not improved that much since ww1
If so from WW1 trenches and deadlock...
A couple of Web Cams and Tablets... those old T-55s are rockin....lol
@@matsv201 Cap
makes sense, the MiG-29s avionics can’t support the AGM-88 normally so using an iPad with a custom software installed to allow for the aircraft to use the HARMs makes perfect sense.
The planes in the video were Flankers but the same thing would apply to them too i guess
@@Wolcott we began su-25 upgrades but not as extensive as Georgia or some nato countries to support guided ordinance
Yeah that is actually pylon adapter which Can that ad Be "I/O controlled" etc. Where the plane normally Would integrate The missile to the western planes computers itself and use the planes sensors, though the range is little bit smaller as This uses missiles own seeking head. If I don't remember totally correctly or have understood incorrectly, this adapter is some older application from the times NATO was looking that What they could do with eastern germany planes, but ofc coding software with iPad isnt. I bet there has been systems for old i/o com2 style rag computers of ISS which they (NASA, Esa) also uses with iPad. With last I am not saying This is NASA made but would not be amazed if the base for the software Wood have been already there inside us more or less.
But yeah basically it just "drives The pylon", I bet also other western ammunation could be used with this, at least those which don't need planes own sensors. Of course there is an rwr (that led system :P) in mig29 but try to connect harm to it... 😂
@@reso372doesn't change sh1t
If its stupid but it works, then it aint stupid
ok mcarther
Na, its still pretty dumb
@@John_Redcorn_ Which alternative is better?
The tech onboard is old slow and finiky. The I pad is like a screen from a new gen or something. More efficient information processing.
@@yt45204 actually spending money building a legit military. They had 30 years to do so and didnt.
On the way back after a SEAD mission they can watch the Mover and & Gonky show on the iPad. 😉
And play angry birds!
SNEED
I can shed a bit of light on the subject. The ipads are used as a human interface for the adapted hardware with an I/O box that integrates them together. They take in the variables and displays them to the pilot, the pilot inputs his stuff into the ipad, and the ipad tells the I/O box what to do in the same way that native hardware in more modern jets otherwise would. We use these in our GPS units for ag flying in the same way. The ipad isn't actually physically connected to anything on the jet, just the I/O box that feeds the ipad and receives instructions from it. It's not terribly difficult to create an app for the ipad and an I/O box to mimic native software and hardware, and there's so much functionality that the ipad (or any newer tablet) can mash together for a coherent and intuitive display for data and controls. I mean, the fanciest Garmin panels are really nothing more than bespoke tablets, it's the software and I/O boxes they're connected to that are responsible for making it a G1000. The biggest problem I see with using an ipad revolves around the mandatory apple updates that can often turn that stable software into a buggy mess, and that's the last thing you want when you're relying on it to fight a war. Imagine shutting down for the day with everything working great, the ipad decides to update itself overnight, and then when you're in the air the next day you find out that your stupid ipad won't let you drop the warheads you're carrying.
Insightful post. It would be so cool to see what they’re up to and what music they’re listening to on iTunes when they fly 😁 Bet they called their app “JetPlay” 🤪 FYI updates aren’t mandatory for apple products. I use their phones, tablets and computers and none of them are the current OS. This is for similar reasons that you mention. I have run software that is either not updated anymore, has gone down the subscription route or generally (as you say) breaks with after OS updates.
Apple does not have mandatory updates, that’s Windows
It's great when someone with actual engineering experience and knowledge posts a comment like this.
It's certainly not rocket science!
Some graduate probably used a microcontroller and python code for the custom hardware 😄
Updates are all but mandatory with the nonstop popups telling you that you need to update, which is just as problematic as letting it update. With auto updates turned off, I'd get popups every 10 seconds to a minute, randomly. These interfere with the interface and use of the ipad, and if you're using it to precisely drop something based off the moving map, you might as well forget about it. So yeah, that basically makes them mandatory whether you want to or not. At least when you update there's a chance that everything will still work fine. In my situation, there's a whole team of software engineers aware of the problem and they don't sleep until they're able to push a new update to fix the bugs from the apple update. Could be a few hours, could be a week or more. Rooting the ipad would be a solution, but that comes with its own pitfalls, the least of which is apple throwing a fit and dropping their app from the store for condoning jailbreaking. The majority of the customer base doesn't want to go that route either, so the few of us that need that 100% reliability are left out in the cold. Pretty sure Ukraine wouldn't care about that and roots all of their ipads so they're more stable. They likely have some other software added in to wipe all data in the event that they're recovered by Russia as well. I have no doubt there's probably some arduino boards and other home-baked electronics flying with them as well.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I have an iPad, iPhone, and Apple Watch all running either iOS 14 or 15 and not once have I gotten a popup telling me to update
Getting a software update notification while proving air support is crazy
And unlikely. The Ukraine is home to a large and very talented group of IT professionals, coders and developers, most of which have been pressed into military service with their unique skills. It's not all hacking Russian systems. Development of an iOS app or two with OS customisations is well within the capabilities of these talented individuals. Give them a platform they know well and who knows what they are capable of doing. Adding smarts to an old war jet would be relatively easy for these people. Agile development will be making this possible... It could rewrite western procurement and development doctrine...
@@dougle03 It's a joke, calm down
Dude they're firing HARMs from iPads. That's awesome.
And now you want to download their app ?
Glass cockpit is a glass cockpit.
ok mcarther
With the Meta Quest 4, replace the canopy entirely with cameras.
I own a Quest 3, because I'm working on the same technology for my e-bike "HUD". There are still some critical features that are necessary first. At least without rolling all your own software.
Ukraine is very much like Spain during its civil war of 1936-1939. A lot of the technology was tested in that war. We are seeing the same types of tests in Ukraine.
Technology is tested in every war. It's possible that Germany still hold the development quantum record during WW2
Seeing as the Spanish civil war was to ww2 what the mexican-american war was to the American Civil war, your analogy terrifies me.
Hardly...
Ukraine is given the oldest and most well known weapons.
Spain was literally filled with brand new weaponry.
Ukraine is filled with old weaponry.
@@NiSiochainGanSaoirse
So, you're saying the cheap drones, 3D printing, and 5G communications aren't changing the battle space? Currently this is the closest you're going to get to near peer nations going at it.
True, Ukraine is getting a lot of old equipment that is past its prime but the data that is being collected will be seen when the main big boys lock horns.
@@NiSiochainGanSaoirseah yes because we should send f22s to Ukraine right. Obviously they sent known weapons. It's obviously changed from 80 years ago.
I remember early Syrian Civil War footage where the Syrian Air force used tablets to navigate their choppers. If a 1000€ tablet can make your old jet be combat effective again, why not.
Well, how much more would some other display and a simple custom plastic or aluminium cowling cost really? I think people are focusing too much on appearances...it's the programming and integration that's the big deal, not which devices they chose.
Though I am surprised as to why they didn't even bother to 3D-print a proper cowling...reduce the sun hitting the tablet.
.back in the 80 and 90s (and possibly in the 70s) there was this software that was super simple. It just did two things. It resived data and displayed it, or it resive data from a tochscreen (and some cases external levers) and sent them. The first version was just a a text based system and the very early version didnt even have touch support.
Pretty much all and any systems from a ATM machine, to a train or heavy industrial machinety used this software.
Typicallt it was a PC running the software and some kind of unix of bespoke computer actually taking the reading. Later it evolved to use VGA grapics and evetually windows CE desktop. It really was overkill to use a full computer just tomdisplay some numbers. But for stuff like trains and ATM machines that was built just a few hundred or thousand this was far cheaper.
Today ipad do exactly the same thing. I seen a hotel juice dispenser that use a ipad just to select to dispense juice.
They haven't such jamming.
Experimental vs. Certified equipment: In a desperate shooting war, priorities change. Safety becomes less important, innovation flourishes and bureaucracy is mostly thrown overboard.
Whatever works. "Anything is possible when your home planet is about to be nuked till it glows."
Having worked Navy echelon 3 back in my misspent youth, a lot of the time-to-deploy a capability is just waiting: waiting for approval, waiting for funding to be programmed, waiting for funding to be obligated, waiting for funding to arrive, waiting for money to go out on contract, waiting for engineers or developers to come available, waiting for gear to arrive, etc., etc. Then you do the work, then wait for the next testing cycle, wait for acceptance sign off, wait for the next time your ship is available, wait for leadership folks on the ship to be available, wait for operators to be available for training, etc., etc., all the while hoping your funding isn't stolen for something 'more important'. I've seen capabilities that were fully developed never get deployed because they repeatedly missed their ship schedule because the ships were needed elsewhere (not enough ships for all the missions) and the program ran out of money and died. And that's all assuming there's space on the ship (either server space or rack space for a new server) available....and that's just on the ISR side. The steely-eyed warrior side or aircraft is even worse.
If you really want to hurt your brain on how U.S. RDT&E works, try reading "Bureaucratic Nirvana: Life in the Center of the Box" by Hugh Montgomery. You'll either be fascinated by the epicycles of the system or run screaming in terror, eyes bleeding. I just laughed when I read it because I was already insane from 20+ years in the box.....
What about the movie Pentagon Wars
@@Snoop_Dugg I think it's funny, personally, as things much like those have happened on this project or that, though never at the same time. Whether it's true to the subject, well, I wasn't there, I've heard that there are a lot of, uh, 'personalities' involved. YMMV.
The first time I saw an F-14 on static display,1974-5, it had a fuzz buster radar detector in upper right side of canopy, 12 VDC was the hard part.
That helmet airwork on that one pilot!
For what it is worth, this is the 3rd time I have had to resubscribe. CZcams being CZcams
all you need is a GUI that talks over a MIL-STD-1553, from there just about anything can be added.
Seems like a great idea. Could use an iPad or any android tablet and use them to interface with weapons. Could put a pi zero on each weapon interface to handle interpretation and communication. Pi zeros are about $10 each, and ethernet is cheap. Run it up to a tablet, and you have what you need.
I think the price of any of the Raspberry Pi models doesn’t matter, but the Zero and Pico obviously offer SWaP advantages over the main line models.
It's also the cost-efficiency of mass consumer electronics that changes the whole ballgame.
cost-efficiency xD
its an apple!^^
You work with what you have. I understand our US process of testing and certification, robust and safe to use. One could argue the IPAD could be hacked, insecure, not made to pull X amount of g's or whatever. In the end it is war, you use whatever you can to give you an advantage. I think it is neat thinking outside the box like this.
It's not that different from general aviation. Private pilots fly with iPad and iPhone all the time. iPad and apps update cycle is much shorter than certified avionics and therefore are much more sophisticated and functional. FAA now recommends private pilot use iPad, since mishap statistics clearly indicates lives are saved when private pilots augment their flying with iPad and navigation software (such as ForeFlight).
Airline pilots too
in south korea, f-5 fly with some kind of pad drop KGGB which is similar to JDAM-er.
what
Ukraine is fighting a war from both past and future
*losing a war
the Business insider photo looks like the ipad is running Foreflight. you can tell because they have the navlog feature expanded, which can show distance, magnetic heading and time to a waypoint. if the ipad is cellular, it can get a GPS position down to 3 meters.
It's Foreflight. To the right of the iPad is a Gramin handheld GPS, which does work with Foreflight.
Something similar occurred when the LANTRN was integrated with the F-14. Accomplished in a minimal amount of time and within budget. It gave the Tomcat a truly lethal capability.
...a truly lethal air-ground capability.
As they say, Don't let perfection get in the way of doing good.
The Brits had a thing called "urgent operational requirements". They implemented it after the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The normal process of equipment procurement was far to slow and inflexible. It really did make a huge difference to life on the ground. They stopped it eventually and implemented a computer system which means nobody gets any work done but the bean counters.
WWl, WWII, the absolute best example of experimental aviation.
Super expensive weapons systems versus super cheap improvised weapons systems, that is the paradox that this war is showing.
Well, what do you base your assumption of cost differences on? A system using an iPad as the display and computer can be more expensive or less expensive than an interface using a generic or different display and computer.
Using some other computer plus generic display and having a custom cowling manufactured would probably cost a fraction of a percent of the overall development costs, and possibly as mich as buying an iPad.
What is probably saved most is time, when just crudely slapping an iPad on the dash instead of integrating a display and computer into the cockpit.
@@pistonburner6448 A $1000 iPad would magically become a $23000 iPad by the time it emerged via DOJ procurement.... We all know this, it's called the DOJ tax that all suppliers and contractors add....
Tomcats in the early 80s flew with automotive radar detectors. One on each side of the front cockpit glareshield.
Waiting for the MIG29 upgrade: adding backseater x-box controller virtual/remote RIO/EWO app connected via starlink (ring array) ...
Hopefully, there's AI to help with the rusty Ukrainian. 360 staring optics would be cool ...
Starlink is Elon, Elon is Russian sympathizer, do not want.
any AI said Ukrainians that they should use Volga live to surrender and survive.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Ukraine's proved that they innovate, and even modify stuff for more efficient strikes, look to those sea drones, they have no Navy, but hurt the Russians badly. And that doesn't surprise me, in Soviet times, all innovation for space rockets came from there. I admire the Ukraine people for this alone. Besides, their will to pull this off.
Most ships and Aircraft were built in Ukraine too, that's why it is hard for russia to simply replace the ones they lose.
@@JazzJaRa YEs like all aircraft carriers were build in Ukraine part off USSR in Nikolayev .Its why Russian now cant build them
I love stuff like this, putting different parts and technologies together to achieve a goal on the same platform.
Ingenious!
Actually Gonky makes a great point. Every Apple product I’ve had has been very sensitive to overheating in direct sunlight
Might be some other kind of tablet?
Hey guys, making the systems work is sometimes not as hard s you think... for example, any instrument on the plane can literally be captured by a camera and trained to convert the light signal into whatever format your harm needs.
What app do I download to make an iPad compatible with SEAD munitions?
A true killer app
The all new improved MIL-STD-1553 PRO dongle from Apple ! Only $999,999
Weird WW2 comment, considering Ukraine was fully occupied during that war and in general, an active participant. Maybe war for independence is what they meant.
I have two interpretations:
1. The significance to the Ukrainians is analagous to the significance of WW2 to the US
2. He is relating Ukriane to Vichy France.
I would like to know whether the iPad was coupling sensor feeds from the aircraft, the weapon, and even other assets to engage the target. In a pinch, just managing the HARM is good enough in addition to setting up a compatible launch rail and fire control. It is essential for Ukraine to regain control of its airspace.
What’s the SEAD app called in the iPhone App Store? Can’t find it.😂
Totally what I was thinking before it was even mentioned; iPads shut off when exposed to sunlight heat behind a windscreen which I found when I mounted mine showing live maps on the dash of my 4WD.
Brilliant!!!
I think there should be a an award similar to the Nobel Peace Prize but for MacGyver ingenuity to makes things work together effectively that were never designed to do. Unless there is such a thing already in existence I’m just not aware of. Who knew you could fire a HARM with an iPad 🙃
If so, Ukrainian engineers/ technicians are clever & adaptable. Necessity is the mother of invention. We tend to underestimate their engineers because a lot of their technology was geared toward agriculture before the war. I tend to underestimate them, but that is wrong. Education in a A&M university is not lacking at all, and some farmers I know are extremely smart.
It be super annoying if during the attack run - the ipad flashed up "your scheduled update has started,, ipad turning off"
Guys honestly I love you so much and your channel. Therefore I ll leave. ❤️❤️❤️🙂
Another cost driver (and takes time) is the documentation (TO's) and the whole support (spares/testing etc) footprint.
Mover, you should talk about the fast tacked radar warning receiver development during the Vietnam War.
Gives new meaning to "airplane mode"
very innovative.
They are using Foreflight Performance Plus.
As you said, experimental aircraft use all sorts of new tech, more quickly. And it's often an Apple product.
In 1996 at EAA Oshkosh my son and I were lucky to get a full tour of the brand new Rutan Boomerang from the man himself!
Asymmetric filament wound carbon composite fuselage with canards but I think the thing he was most jazzed about was showing me the fuel burn chart for the flight in (from Aspen) on the cockpit MacBooks - yes, he had THAT then, 1996. Wow. Dual machines/screens + Graphs, charts and PFD! (And I have it all on video!)
LOL and WTH!
Two days later I spent a morning with 5 guys and Chuck Yeager - it was so hot no one showed up to a talk we lucky guys heard all his yarns sitting outside a tent around a picnic table. EAA Airventure is always unforgettable.
The MIG-29 is such an elegant looking machine
use a potable battery electric fan to cool the ipad
Tape a ice pack to it
I would have assumed that Ukraine was using more Android tablets than iPads. The issue with iPads is that Apple goes out of their way to keep you from tampering with and/or fixing them.
Deeply impressive people.
It’s all about giving yourself the advantage in any way you can. We’ve become such a big machine that requires rigid controls and approvals, and far too many people that can’t think outside the box. With the writing on the wall, I’m finally seeing some innovative adaptations since I joined 24 years ago.
The UAI program was designed to allow for sw upgrades outside of the block upgrade cycle....so called capability driven upgrade cycles.
how you prevent over temp on your ipads and android tablets is easy, just put it into power saving mode. it reduces the clock speed of the cpu, less clock speed means less heat its litterally a simple toggle in the settings. and you also have the benifit of getting longer battery life.
Necessity the mother of invention.
If it works it works 👍
I really wish Apple would make an iPad that does not overheat. In my airplane with the large windscreen, about three seconds the damn iPad shuts down from overheat.
On the way to a CAS mission while watching Netflix 💀
I think something many people are forgetting is, we know the Mig 29 in and out. Not only were the german Migs flown extensively as agressors in the US, but they were also modified.
So its not just knowing how to get the machines onto NATO standards, but its already been done (by what is now Airbus).
Especially with the ones that were donated from Poland, because these were actually the former german Migs that are already flying with NATO nav,iff, coms... and weapon systems.
Which systems exactly were integrated isnt publicly known or what the poles did afterwards with them, but it would be naive to think that two countries would rely on getting weapons (R73 and R27) from their potential adversary...
Granted, this has nothing to do with the Su27s, but I think there might be some knowledge transfer for sure and I dont think its far fetched to assume that some company, has plug and play pylon adapters lying around, that give you at least basic functionality...
'Actually' this is Ukraine's second WW2. Their first was in the early 1940s.
you could also include ukrainian war of indepedence which did start while WW1 was happening
Second World War or second ww2??
@@thurbine2411 third ww2/1
@@rklkify yes I know that they were in both world wars but this comment says this is their second ww II which makes no sense. Also this isn’t ww iii just because Russia is involved
@@thurbine2411 i believe they where talking more about an existential/full scale war than an actual world war
Koreans also use ipad for KGGB used in F-16 as US isn't allowing locally produced guided bombs to be integrated and it's almost effective and cheap to operate.
"Talk to the machinery",... Well, if the older systems use any sort of serial communication, it's a pretty easy job to use an Arduino as a micro controller to signal the physical devices and listen to them, then translate that to USB connected devices.
It's pretty much what the microcode running in a 3D Printer does.
Makes sense
bro got that ForeFlight on deck
Makes sense to me.
Hey whatever works, works.
In theory, if you make a interface-pylon, it only need power if it can speak to the ipad over WIFI. You can test and develop it all in a workshop anywhere, no need to test it ona a plane.
Then the Wi-Fi gets hacked.
What’s the name of the app?
In general, from a design point of view, there is nothing wrong with using “civilian” electronics for military purposes on a low budget. The bulk of the cost of military electronics comes from small-scale production, driven by specific requirements - mainly protection from aggressive conditions and situations, such as the effects of a nuclear explosion. Whereas if we remove these conditions from the problem, it turns out that assembling an electronics complex for a heavy-class air defense missile system costs 5 million dollars, not 500.
The 'true airplane' mode
Necessity is the mother of invention
Shortly after the war began I saw a video of a Russian pilot who had brought a long their own handheld gps device so this is no surprise.
Look closely, they are running Foreflight on the iPad.
Ukraine have been waiting on the Viper for awhile? I remember it being the news...what last year? The news bits with the pilots training. I always wondered what happened with that.
Denmark is starting deliveries this month. It takes a lot to get an aircraft type into service and we aren’t going to see all the aircraft arrive straight away
They can upgrade avionics with cheap prices too use new area radar new AIM120 d missile and another things
Could you get an avionics tech in to give his thoughts,?
This feels very Gmod in real life too me
It's like trying to play a Windows game in a different OS like Linux based distros or MacOS. You can find a solution to anything as long as you find the reason.
are they using a normal navigation app ....? looks like it
Note of caution At least one fatal helicopter crash due to IPad falling of mount and getting trapped in controls (pedals I think).. Not sure if any other incidents..
"Netflix..." lol
"some assistance" yea...
What is that old saying? “If it is stupid but works, then it isn’t stupid”
Device needs to update
Sunlight readability appalling
It's the new 'killer app' for the iPad
Does the term _wild weasel_ refer to a "weasel's" exposure to danger when raiding a chicken coop or does it refer to the predatory behavior of making themselves so conspicuous that their prey remains exposed until targeted? -- I understand the nature of SEAD missions and always assumed the former but having seen those "weasel war dance" videos it's just got me wondering...
I don't think the weapon is integrated with the aircraft at all. My assumption is the iPad is simply communicating with a modified pylon over bluetooth or WIFI, completely bypassing the launch aircraft's avionics.
Could be - HARMs will seek out a source to lock on to after launch. So they could just be using the RWR to get a bearing and approximate range, and use the iPad to fire the missile.
Things are getting desperate in Ukraine
Things have always been desperate. They are fighting Russia which has the largest stored amount of military vehicles on earth. Now while loads of Russian kit and people have been taken off the battle field there is still a lot to go before the stored equipment will run out.
It’s horrific and Russia needs to leave Ukraine and stop this war.
But did the HARMS interface application require the Ukrainian pilots to link their accounts to the PlayStation Network...?
necessity is the mother of all innovation. Slava Ukrani. Still need to give them good kit. I am sure we already have techno liaisons in theater but yeah - the Ukrainians are showing how to apply innovative technology systems & solutions real-time in battle. Great Vid.
In other words, more computing power than all 4th gen analog fighters.
in the end its just an overpiced PC..... the software is the big player!
With computing power this strong, all you need is the 5v to charge the tablet.
They say my cell phone has more computing power than what was used in the Apollo program. I just need to figure out where to get hold of a Saturn V.
Uh-oh! A violation of the Apple terms and conditions! ;)