Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Episode 600b
Since my last tiny had an issue (defective attenuator), I wanted to be fair and see if any of the complaints I had went away with the new one. The level hunting issue is much better but it is still there. No other issues are fixed by the good unit. Still a bargain at $50 and nothing can compete on portability
Be a Patron:
/ imsaiguy
All in all a great tool for the hobbyist. All for the cost or less of shipping a real SA. Enjoying mine very much. Thanks for the videos.
Thank you! It’s good to have a reference from someone who truly understands an instrument. It’s been many years since I’ve had access to a spectrum analyzer and from your video, it appears the tiny will be adequate for my current needs and certainly fits my budget. Now, if only there was a Tiny Service Monitor!
I believe you can view these on a PC with a USB cable...
I think the tiny SA has dynamic range "over spec." It is actually reading correctly only when the wide "skirt" is not visible. When the skirt is visible, the circuitry is being over driven. No doubt to get the "amazing" dynamic range they show in the specs. The true dynamic range looks to be about 40 db less.
Yes Ron, that is a very valid point.
Yes, probably the input overload distortion. I have seen that problem in another video. There is probably also no overload warning and the signal is clipping..
Interesting low-cost unit, but that slow sweep rate and the frequency/level problems would drive me crazy!
I finally got a very good spectrum analyze, but I spent decades when I was young wishing there existed a $50 SA, even with all its imperfections, because $50 was all I could afford. It would have been far better than staring at antennas and guessing what was going on with my gear.
Thanks for doing all these helpful Nano & TinySa videos. I too would be aggravated with the current version Tiny's measurements issues & hope they will be inclined to change it my (and apparently IMSA's) "style" of operating manners of such devices.. I only worked with HP rf & mw spec analyzers & never noticed any accurate dbm measurement errors & wasn't aware of the mentioned, relatively Large + -- 2.5 dbm accuracy mfg specs. I had to make close accurate measurements & just never noticed this phenomenon... The Tiny's price point is actually a bit too Low with $ 100 -- 200 being my modest "retired" status operating budget for an easier operating & far less non-intuitave glitchy measurement tool expectation... Hopefully they can fix it or someone else can step in & fill the "void"...Keep up the great helpful videos !
It is really limited by the chip they use. I hope a better IC will become available. Unfortunately the chips are made for receivers and not measurements, so I'm not holding my breath.
Fantastic that they have replaced your faulty Tiny SA and we get to see see more educational videos from you based on the Tiny SA!
I wish we could see the Y-axis DB per increment on the graticule of the HP, it's a little frustrating that we can see the noise floor and Y Axis of the Tiny SA but not the HP, making visual comparisons of the noise floor impossible to see. My poor eye sight as yet hasn't spotted any numerical values being displayed on the HP to show the noise floor, if there are, please point them out.
I do take a minor exception to your comment about it only displaying dBc. dBc is the exact mathematical ratio of carrier modulation/noise/adjacent-carrier so it is what probably most design engineers would put in place/use first (because this mode would not just be used to measure classic-AM modulation i.e. it might be noise or another form of modulation that this mode would be utilized to view). However, given the large base of users, percent-modulation is more 'handy' and therefore should be displayed as a 'sister'-value. 73...
@13:13 If I'm not mistaken 16.6dBc is actually equivalent to 29.92% modulation, which is quite close to what the other instrument is indicating. So it seems it is just presenting it in different units. Maybe there is some option to change the units it displays in.
I'm thinking of buying the Ultra version. One thing I wish it could do is give a visual warning that the front end is in overload rather than having you guess and play around with the attenuator to find out.
Thanks for the video from what I am seeing the TinySA did a great job and will work great for all my needs... NO it's not a 10K+ spectrum analyzer and shouldn't be compared to one but for less than a hundred dollars it is pretty impressive tool.
Hi I was very interested with the comparison video hp , versus tiny sa. Could you please explain why you padded off with identical attenuators both the tiny sa and the hp specan ? I can understand there may be rf rubbish coming out of the tiny sa but can the hp specan also output rf
rubbish ? Regards from wembley Uk
Thanks for doing these videos! This is a cool device, and I'm going to get one. Now I know how to use it better, and I'm sure the feedback will help.
Very nice comparison, thank you. I use an SDRPlay RSPdx along with the RSP Spectrum Analyzer program by Steve Andrew. Excellent frequency & amplitude accuracy can be achieved with this, and very detailed signal analysis is possible. Good dynamic range also. But on large spans, sweep times are slow and so I also have an older analog spectrum analyzer that I use for applications which need spans greater than 100mhz. So between the two, I can do most anything needed here.
Great video... yet again.
So.. you’re saying that I wasted a huge pile of cash on my Rigol DSA815TG?
I can tune up cavities and duplexers using this precision instrument instead ?
J/K of course... but definitely a cool toy to add to the bench. It’ll fit nicely next to the NanoVNA.
Seriously.. thanks for your dedication and videos.
The scane rate of rtl sdr is very slow compare to Si4432 , so how fast the scane rate of Tinysa since it also contains Si4432 ?
The noise floor on the TinySA is kind of meh. Not bad, but nothing to write home about either. I was curious to buy one, but by seeing your videos, I'm willing to reconsider. Anyway, I think I can do any kind of frequency analysis with the NanoVNA (with attenuators) and/or by using the FFT function of my scope. As always, a great video with detailed explanation!
well a note pad competes on portability, you can get them with the spiral on the side or the top,and in colors too. Would you buy a portable radio that whistles, hears things that aren't there, or a tv with ghosts? That is the level of crapology we are looking at with this thing.
Give me an HP SpecAn anyway! Way more intuitive especially when processing signals in a target rich environment and especially using automation to exploit the instrument across the GPIB. Additionally, the HP will handle an austere environment much better.
I like the 123 blocks
And the final gauge block on top! :-)
If they release a 4" version I'll get out my set of 246 blocks
Replacement? I can only assume that the previous one was defective or broke. What went wrong with the original? Thanks for taking the time to do these videos. Very helpful in me making a decision on what to buy.
the input attenuator on my unit did not work correctly on all ranges. firmware was later changed to have a more robust self-test to check for this. also the hardware was changed to add input protection diodes. if you are considering one, please buy the ULTRA version as it fixes many other problems the original had.
Thanks for the quick answer and advice. 73's.@@IMSAIGuy
Let's just say it provides terrible accuracy, but does it with great precision.
Wonder how it handles FHSS in the 902-928MHz?
Nice to see youre back ;-)
Are you sure the 'skirt' is also not todo with the sampling rate during sweeping?
My tiny should arrive today hopefully. Thanks for posting ex 73 de KT1R
Wonderful 👍😎
I'm not fully "in the know" but I definitely enjoy being exposed to this higher level of geekdom. Hoping some will rub off on me.
This WAS a "subscribable" video. Thank You 💚💙💛💜
Cheers from
SoCALIF🇺🇸
watch out for the stank :)
o my more learning curve stuff. in the challenge of building a backyard hobby SDR radio telescope one video used a TinySA spectrum analyzer for the 21cm hydrogen line setup. 😎 thanks.
please check out the 'TinySA Ultra' it is a new design and better
@@IMSAIGuy thank you so much. I checked it out and ordered one. 🧐
At some point, I want to get a NanoVNA, though the TinySA still seems too young. From what it seem: you are not the TinySA's best promoter : )
Why ever did HP decide not to number the dB their gradicule?
Why ever did neither not really mark the range well?
Too many of your videos are interesting just to point to one. Thanks.
I think you are right. The nano is more mature now with the dislord software. The spectrum analyzer was not thought of an absolute measurement but more of a relative one so they probably didn't see the need and left that to the markers.
Can you do a video for OTA TV signals 5-608MHz range as I haven't seen any on CZcams using the tinySA. The tinySA would be a great product for OTA enthusiasts and antenna installers for finding and pointing their antennas to the strongest signal and the interference that LTE signals now play a part after the repack this year.
Not sure what you are looking for. It's a spectrum analyzer so will give you an idea of signal strength and help with antenna direction maximizing. Don't think it is much of a video.
Running high side, the ATT. does not allow selecting attenuation level in mine, even with the newest firmware update.
Selection of attenuation level is not allowed, although it passes all tests.
On the HIGH side there is no attenuator in the path. there is no mixer, there is no IF filter. There is only the receiver IC. It has a mixer, DSP filter, amp. It is not a proper SA just a receiver. czcams.com/video/BICklA2Vtbo/video.html
Are you a machinist too, I see 1-2-3 blocks on the bench?
czcams.com/video/G3jIBOSa_is/video.html
@@IMSAIGuy , I thought I could see a few square inches of a "flat spot" with nothing on it. your garage is full of goodies to be sure!
Why is it not the TinySA’s LO phase noise you are seeing?
that is based on conversations with the designer of the tinysa
Why do people always expect Ferrari performance from a twofer?
Exactly. Since people buying this (maybe their first SA) I wanted to show its limitations. Since I have the equipment to do that and most people don't. The TIny will get you around town but don't take it to the track.
can this tiny sa , be used to aline an antique radio , with a 456 kc intermediate frequency?...1939 stromberg carlson 450M
yes, I recommend you get the latest model though: czcams.com/video/0ELGDz3ibNg/video.html
What this is saying to me is, buy a used hp sa like the one on your bench. Why is the tiny sa so much more problematic than the nano vna?
I don't know why. I'm sure there are good reasons. It seems the front end looks ok. mixer first filter. but the second conversion and filter are all inside the one chip and they get what they get I guess. I expected 0 to 350MHz to be easy but the second BP filter must let though to much out of band energy. I wish someone would build a $300 SA. I bet it would be as good as the old HP ones. Rigol knows the market is small for an SA and it can charge $1000. and you can get a nice tracking generator too close to that price. Since the VNA has it's own built in source it does not have the problem with filters
@@IMSAIGuy I'd even be happy with a SA at a $500 price point. Rigol is making scopes in that price range or less, and it's similar technology. Much less expensive than quality used HP's. I don't know if the market is just that much smaller, or the price is set high because there is no alternative. For those that say these are a toy, sure, they don't have the specs of 20k+ lab gear, but this is all either a hobby or volunteer (ham) work for me...I'm not doing for profit work competing with radio techs here. ALL of my test gear really comes down to being toys in some sense, less the public service/volunteer part. In the meantime, though, this $50 gizmo is on my shopping list, because it beats the heck out of using a receiver/scanner meter and manual tuning.
Excellent video! Is there a way to calculate the percentage of modulation on the tinySA? Cheers!
Yes, you need to do some math:
www.nutsvolts.com/uploads/wygwam/5954-9130.pdf
@@IMSAIGuy Thanks! I've been looking at the TinySA, I know you had some concerns about its performance on AM modulation. Has your opinion about the tinySA changed since your did this video. My use case would be to measure the percentage of modulation when calibrating a signal generator (after converting from DB to percentage).
You can make the TinySA do that measurement if you are careful. Remember the bandwidth is only 3kHz so you will need to have the audio >8kHz to see it.
your hp is ten time the price so what do you expect for $50
How much Tinysa can scane in 1 Sec ?
Scanning speed of over 1000 points/second using largest resolution filters.
per spec sheet: tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Specification
@@IMSAIGuy can you put simply MHz per sec ?
@@omsingharjit no, that is not how spectrum analyzers work
@@IMSAIGuy i mean , if starting frequency is 100 MHz and end frequency is 200 MHz on screen what would be the refresh rate in ms or sec ?
@@omsingharjit depends on resolution band width, assuming 1MHz RBW then you would have 100 points, so 100mS sweep rate
IMO it's a toy and not good enough to be an instrument for a lab. For $50 it's good but realistically is it a wasted $50 where you play with it and then throw it in the drawer with all the other crap you don't use ?
true, but it is a good start.. it will get better(or other models will come around building on it's success)
I also have a HP 141T, so by comparison, for me, It's really portable and handy for taking somewhere for troubleshooting or the hobbyist.
and to think that, for the price and size, it really is amazing where we've come from.
We have Agilent and Bird analyzers at work, it's truly amazing what the commercial side has done as well (for compactness and features)
(Back in the day, an IFR 1200s was THE portable test set... thankfully replaced by the 2975, which is now "out-dated" (depending on what you're doing))
Would I benefit from buying one of these, if my sole purpose is to measure a 100KHz-12MHz frequency range from an S-VHS videoplayer ?
I need to see the recorded output levels from the FM-products around the 5.4MHz Luminence carrier and to calibrate the video preamp for one specific videotape, the Fuji H471S.
I have the Tektronix 1725 Vectorscope and 1735 Waveform Monitor, but need to visualize the recorded frequency output levels on the tape, so this TinySA *could* be the one I'm looking for, unless more experienced guys have spotted something I didn't.
I would think it can do the job. Just remember the resolution bandwidth is 3khz. you won't see any detail smaller than that.
@@IMSAIGuy The 3 KHz resolution is not a concern. The ability to see the output levels within the 100 KHz to 12 MHz range is. So is the noisefloor and strange unwanted artefacts which would make the TinySA unusable for this purpose.
My brain is telling me to look for more reviews of this gadget or wait until the desperation sets in.
Thanks for answering. Much appreciated.
Take care and Merry Christmas.
Cheers
So, stay away from it if you are aligning am/fm radios?
No, you can still use it. Just be aware of the limitations and learn how to set manual settings, takes some time. you get what you pay for
I suppose you could just stand in front of the camera.
Great idea!
Nice fresh video (ive reported the 2 spam I saw :( )
I get them all the time......
@@IMSAIGuy odd, wonder why youtube can't automatically detect them. Anyway, interesting video, I don't understand all of it, but did show what to look for kinda if I plan on wanting a spectrum analyser (for cheap). Not now tho, but it's interesting to see and learn tiny bits about these measurement devices
maybe you had the chinese clone ?
nope, this was from the designer direct
Your videos are very interesting, but please keep your hands and arm far from the front of the camera, like other youtubers please use a tiny stick to point whatever you need to indicate. Thanks and keep on with this interesting video.
Yes, I do try to keep out of the way. It is hard. I literally have the camera tripod in my lap.
Your blocking the camera view with your arm...MOVE
I am torn in deciding if this is techno-crap or crapology..
It's a buggy piece of crap. I tried hours trying to upgrade the firmware because it was buggy to begin with. It kiboshed with the software recommended. White screen of death. But wait there's more. If you take it apart and short the boot /vcc traces it puts it into DFR which is the programming mode. Then you can try for hours trying to upgrade the firmware and getting the constant errors. And I tried several versions including a 32 bit version of software . None of it worked. Don't waste your money. It's not even a good toy.