A Cheater Tried To Solve This...
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 10. 2022
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At this point the old man smiled and placed a 12â tall mechanic Godzilla on the board.
âGojirra wins winsâ
He exclaimed before making laser sounds and knocking all the pieces onto the floor. At this point the club realized the answer: the old man was crazy, and was promptly escorted off the premises.
Lol
LMAO THE FUNNIEST COMMENT IVE SEEN IN YEARS
@Aido Lmao
chess from ohio đđđđđđ
@@LightsaberDuelz lmfao*
I think probably the young girl instinctively thought this looked like a win for white because of how many pieces white has and the other players (who had seen more of these whacky puzzle positions) instinctively thought black would win or it would be a draw due to the nature of these puzzles and how often one side can do really well when the king has limited squares. Still Bravo to her bet she was chuffed at that.
Sherlock on the job?
Bro you are so smart!!!
I expected black to win, given the nature of most puzzles. It's often the underdog that can come back because of the unusual positions and piece placement. When I was trying to solve it though, I couldn't find anything except the perpetual check draw and the stalemate.
Yeah thatâs kinda what was exactly said in the video
The story is 100% made up
Very sneaky of Nelson to show the Stockfish analysis while it is only at depth 18. I'd imagine by the time the chess engine gets to depth 20 it notices Qd3 and shows a high plus score or even a forced mate for White. So the other moral of the story is, don't trust chess engines when you haven't given them adequate time to analyze the position.
at higher depths it gives about +15.63
latest stockfish dev up to depth 65 finds a mate in 24 (after depth 40something)
Even stockfish needs more than literally 1 second to analyze a position properly.
18 is the default
@@sammarks9146 the stockfish on my phone has depth 24 as the default and got there in like 3 seconds, showing white as +9
My gut instinct: White can easily draw by simply shuffling the rook back and forth for perpetual check, therefore this is not a win for black. Meta reasoning says that since this is a puzzle, it's unlikely to be a draw either, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a puzzle. Therefore it's likely a win for white through shenanigans, probably with some kind of fork block at some point.
I bet you've taken a few multiple choice exams in your time.
@@sadas3190 all of the above and none of the above are always right lol
'Gut instinct'
Exactly how I did it too, I didn't find the winning move but also bet that white is winning just cause it's a puzzle
And I was super confused when the drawing position was drawn out so much. If you wanted to show a draw, just show the immediate perpetual. Why would white go the length to bait the queen around if they don't see where that would lead to? -> Because this a puzzle and it does lead to something other then a draw given a different move at the end of baiting the queen around.
That is an Epic solution. This is a perfect reminder for a chess player to think more critically and improve
nah this reminded me to just go ooga booga points
me who was always thinking that why move the bishop when u can get rook at the original area
@@xerooreo1700 The game wouldnt end since they would go back and forth
@@toonyrhythm3173 no now when i studied this puzzle a bit it would result in a tie because of repitation
@@xerooreo1700 yeah
I think the hardest part would be reverse engineering this puzzle to find out how three hell they got in that crazy position
thats why i dont play the sicilian
@@iswearillchangemynamesoon hahah
There's actually another way for it to end! It's still a draw, but not by perpetual checks.
3:42 If White Bd4, black Qa5+, White Rc5, Black QxR+, White must capture, but whether he does with the King or Bishop it's actually a stalemate. The white Queen covers E1, E2, and G2 while the white Bishop covers F2 and G1.
Nice spot!
Although white need not follow this line, that's just beautiful !
What move is Black QxR? I am not into chess
@@pascal9814 Queen captures Rook on c5. It forces white to capture the black queen, but whether he uses the king or the bishop, it ends in stalemate as the black king has no legal moves.
@@LucianDevine Thank you very much :)
I like how the most complicated way to draw is shown when white can literally just move the rook back and forth
Because it's not a draw. Computers always to play the line with most options (even to the point of sometimes 'pointlessly' repeat a position once) if it's otherwise not detrimental to its position. Here, that's up to the winning configuration, but because its depth wasn't high enough it didn't spot the win. If you otherwise mean computer unrelated... well, again, it's not a draw đ
@@Qoko88 touch grass đ«łđż
Aim is show how white avoids repetition.
Because white doesn't want to draw.
@@abcdef8915 So you are saying black people play for the draw and white people only play to win?
I thought it was a draw because black has perpetual checks and white's pieces could shuffle back and forth but I only saw the queen sac when the position before it was shown again
I noticed almost instantly this would impossibly be a win for Black due to Qa2+ Rc4 Qd2+ Rd4 etc. If it's 'weird', it must be a win for White (as otherwise puzzles like these are drawn) but I failed to think outside the box. Which, is quite literal here đ. I'll save this one, thanks!
i see what you meant.. quite
literally black cant even get past a draw on move 2
I think it's a shitty puzzle altogether. Actually not a puzzle at all.
It definitely looked like a perpetual check situation. Didn't see the queen sacrifice! Awesome stuff.
I thought it was a draw too
The little story plus stock fish with inadequate depth for the puzzle gave a lot to the puzzle - very well done.
This kind of framing gives a chess puzzle - something very logical, abstract, definitive and solitaire - am open ended and social element.
This is great! I like problems with tries that are plausible but wrong, and this one has tries at various levels of naivety/plausibility.
I was thinking about that queen sacrifice as it was the only unconventional option to simultaneously block the check as well as breaking the chain, all other pieces had one and only one way of blocking..although I didn't understand the importance of the sacrifice at first, so I thought it's suicidal, hence didn't gave much thought...but I was wrong..and right too.
Another lesson for me, thanks :)
My immediate thought when it got to the last move on the draw is that the queen could make a more offensive play, though when youâve been moving in a box itâs common to just assume thatâs the only place you can move by instinct.
I think being bad at chess makes this easier to solve đđ
0:35 That day the little girl promise herself to take revenge on those who humiliated her
And then they realized there was a random old guy in their chess club for kids
Bro your story telling was good and your inspiration from chess talk was new kind of content
Hey, I actually got one of these right. It's not that complicated really, the queen's ability to keep checking depends on her distance from the king and other pieces, by offering the queen sac you simultaneously pull her closer and give your king an escape route, or if the sacrifice is not accepted you just give your king an escape route and make your queen active.
The black queen can't escape, because the queen and king are forked. If black doesn't want to accept the sacrifice either the king must move away and the queen gets captured OR the queen must block the check and still gets captured.
In all three scenarios the white king can escape and white wins, but only in the scenario from the video the black queen stays on the board.
There is no other move that gets black out of check while saving the queen so if the sacrifice is not accepted, black will lose the queen.
The old man speaks for himself
The young girl's hunch speaks for itself
Thatâll be $100 million
Coincidence. I watched my first Chess Talk video yesterday.
By the way, there is also an easy draw for White line -- just move the rook back and forth.
That was my thinking, it was obviously either a win for white or a draw.
The name of this young girl ?
Albert Einstein.
The name of this young girl?
Mangus Carlsen v2
@@sheulidas451 The name of this young girl? AlphaZero
@@ekki1993 The name of this girl?
Stockfish
I find it funny that none of the people tried to accont for the king
fun fact for me
before subscribing to Nelson's Chess vibes, I actually subscribe to Chess talk
so basically CZcams thought that Chess talk "promoted" algorithm to Chess vibes in my home page
nice video as always
anyway, because of this cute funny plot twist, I finally decided to join membership at this channel. hopefully Nelson could play chess & collab with Chess talk channel someday
While this is an epic solution, after the first move is given, a chess engine can replicate this win for white move for move.
Great puzzle, I thought black was able to pull of perpetual checks. Giving up the queen to break the pattern, with check so forced, is just brilliant.
At 0:49
âThey will defend with the bishopâ
Me: why not the rook?
This fascinating puzzle speaks for itself
Haven't watched the Video but I have seen this position in some sort of book before and I know that White wins by giving away the Queen in the end just to stop the repetitions.
It's actually really funny. A very easy concept that everyone should be able to come up with and yet we don't.
Why, if White does not see the long term queen sacrifice (ie on the black wins or even the draw scenario) upon the second check (white q to D2), instead of bishop to D4, does White not just play rook to D4? This would lead to a perpetual qA2 rC4 qD2 rD4 situation and an easy draw for White.
Anyone thinking white loses this position is a complete idiot tbh. White can just move his bishop or queen back and forth in any of the lines mentioned.
The black wins scenario relies on white playing badly. White always has an available draw. The point is finding the win for white.
White has several draws by perpetual if he wants, and as long as he doesn't blunder into checkmate by pushing the E4 Pawn too soon, there's not really much harm in feeling out the position and trying to find a win as white.
The objective of a puzzle is find the best line possible not the perpetuals checks
Read your comment, you said "why should white win when they can draw?"
For me the moral of the story is that the longer you are in a field the more disillusioned and pessimistic you become. Give the girl a few more weeks and all the puzzles will make her think it's either a draw or loss too
The moral of the story I got is that you can be right for the wrong reason. More pieces doesn't always translate into a win.
The moral of the story is its better to be lucky than good. That's why the story sucks.
The boy was like
"Ah, it's mate in 2 for black. White will play f3, black - e6, and now white plays g4, black delivers a checkmate with a queen on h4.
I like the chess stories. It adds a warm touch to a cold game. I'll use some of them at the Library chess club to engage the kids. Thanks
that sounds awesome!
The rule is, if all your pieces combined can cover the whole board movement and you have more of them, you win.
Ahhh yes, the boy plugged in the moves into the computer in the year 1959.
100 IQ- surrounding the king with pieces to ensure he is well guarded.
400 IQ- sacrificing the queen to allow the king to escape.
I still remember thinking at first that Black had a sneaky win up his sleeve until I realized that White could respond to Qg5+ by blocking it with his queen (Qe5). After I realized that, I figured at first that it would be a draw by perpetual check- until I realized that, just as Nelson pointed out, after several more checks, White can block Qd2+ with Qd3+, thereby sacrificing his queen in exchange for the positional advantage of being able to block the resulting check via Bd4 without the danger of keeping his king trapped in the box and forced to be put in perpetual check.
TL;DR- I first thought Black would win but then saw Qe5 as a way out of being checkmated. Then I thought it would be a draw by perpetual check until I saw the counter check of Qd3+ as a way out of perpetual check.
Mind = blown. Thanks for the FEN and mentioning where you got the idea, that was fun.
Bro made a boss fight đđ
I could instantly tell you were following a different theme of doing the chess puzzles with stories.
I was at first like "wut how would this even be a win for black this is a dead draw but even more a win for white."
Then you proceeded to explain my thoughts lol.
Tho yes queen sac is something I do often so that is the only reason I knew this.
*Also looks at the amount of times someone messed with me by putting the king on h2 with pawns surrounding it as it is horrendously strong defense, same with opposite corner*
If anyone's looking for me, I'll be busy picking up pieces of my brain from off the floor. Great content, Nelson!
I found some on my lawn and wanted to give them back.
đ§ đ§ đ§
Must have been really mind blowing for them to land all the way in Germany! đ€Ż
@@itslullas No, it was brain blowing. đ
3:23 black will kill whiteâs queen resulting in a checkmate
"What a Noob". I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to whom I am referring.
That was an AMAAAAAZING PUZZLE!
I like how for all the sophisticated logic used to demonstrate a draw no one bothered with the trivial draw by repetition of moving the rook back and forth.
If white is playing to win, they won't want to do that.
That wouldn't happen because White doesn't want to draw. White wants to escape the checks and then use his massive material advantage to win.
As soon as you paused, the queen move stuck out as an obvious oversight on blacks part, the characters in this story overlooked the ending of the line.
Here's how I solved it (rather logically):
I realized quickly that shuffling the rooks would give white at least a draw. So I considered why white wasn't clearly winning, and deduced that the king having no other escape squares kind of forced white pieces to constantly defend the checks in the 3x3 grid. If any piece made it outside the grid then the king will have an escape square and things could change. I then hypothesized that a queen, being the most versatile, had the best chance of blocking the check outside of the 3x3 grid. I searched for this and found the solution Qd3.
@Anonymous yeah, what's up
Beautiful reasoning!
The best thing about puzzles is that they can be constructed to show a specific tactic or idea.
That's why I try the daily puzzle if I can, because it helps me miss less in actual play.
Congrats to the young girl for the answer! If she continues to practice and analyse positions, she might well become the best imaginary chess player that ever was!
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-Plot twist she is named Beth Harmon-
First we will have to pretend she actually thinks things through.
I don't know what engine the boy uses but Stockfish litteraly depth 1 says +10.81 for white
- depth 36 he sees a mate in 27
- depth 45 he sees a mate in 24 (which is the fastest mate)
And then there's me, just moving the rook back and forth from the very beginning.
The girl was just lucky in being right. More pieces on the board doesn't always mean a win.
Oh no my queen
"The old man then smiled and flipped the board and began screaming."
I knew it wouldn't be a win for black, because white could simply force a draw off repetitive check by repeatedly blocking with the same piece. I can't say I saw the win for white option, but it was interesting to see
Dude for a draw you can just constantly block with the rook on qa2
Whites goal is to win though, and they can.
Your storytelling is as nice as your teaching. That made the Chess puzzle so interesting. Thanks Nelsie đ
its a 3 moves repetition draw because the rook can just move back to d4 and block the queen's check. lol
This chess video has the same plot as a Dhar Mann short and I love it.
Who woulda thought a young girl would outsmart an engine and a strong player
actually enginge calculates white win in 24 moves if u give it enough time to alalize until depth 49
The key here is that she can't explain how to win. There's many positions where too many pieces leads to a smothered checkmate.
Nice puzzle, boring story. We already liked your style of narrating, Nelson.
I find it funny how black didnât use its king, even putting him into jeopardy and breaking the cycle.
please stop with the fake chess stories!
They are so long, overblown and boring.
We are not here for religious apologetics, but to learn :D
Give us the ideas without these made up characters please :-/
Disagree
But... but this way, the lesson will become more interesting, learning will be more fun :'(
It's a fun video to watch. You can just skip it if you only want straight to the point learning videos.
@@HTen-sh1nc is it though?
Maybe I am just way too much into the apologetics debunk channels xD
I've heard these kinds of stories 100 times.
They always have a moral you can see by sentence two, could have been shortened to like 30 seconds and padd everything out to the absolute last, giving some filler info inbetween to make it more believable...
This was like an apologetics clone video for chess xD
If you've never heard these kinds of stories, I guess they could be fun... but since I've seen 3 videos in the last 2 days like this for chess... I just wanted to voice my opinion.
The girl is basically a lucky person who always gets the answer right but used the wrong method
Math in a nutshell
I was dead ass looking for a way to get my queen to c4 for a check. But couldnât figure out how to make one always getting checked. The second side pawn push is what I didnât see thought it would lead to mate lol
It wouldn't inspire that because I care more about solid reasoning than a lucky guess.
I also thought on queen to e3, it was kind of the best solution because you could get out of check and put the enemy on check
I mean, you can tell straight from the start that it's not a win for black. The rook can just go back and forth between C4 and D4, always getting in the way of the queen's checks one way or the other.
Casual chess player here, I went through all possibilities in my head and realized that sacrificing the queen using its omnidirectional movement would allow two spaces to be opened up, and thus an escape route. I voted for white's win.
Wait... Isn't it possible to draw like: q b 3 check, r c4 , q d 3 check, r d 4 and repeat for a force draw?
Exactly! This is so dumb?
Do you know that the stupid and the genius often have the same answer? That's what happen in this case.
I was kind of hoping for the first move to be a king move. That would be another cool plot twist.
Surprisingly I actually recognised that the solution would have to involve a diagonal block with the queen. I just didn't have the time to play it all put and realize it was a queen sacrifice.
We were too caught up in the cycle
Been in this position many times throughout my chess career. I call it tank formation protecting my king after taking all of my opponents pieces.
You made up a whole story to make the title 'A cheater tried to solve this...' well, checkmate I guess because I clicked on it.
No no no, the real question is: how did the black king travel that far without getting ladder checkmated?
Everybody gangster until the pawn starts moving backwards
Reminds me of a similar story where the answer was "it depends whose move it is".
Literally what I expected, but I should've assumed the old man told everyone it was black to move at the chess club and tried to think harder to solve it. But honestly wouldn't have found the solution either way, pretty nice puzzle
âHere is a made up story that makes this novice right for literally no reason other than plot deviceâ
Technically it could end in either 3 ways, but most likely it would be a draw, or white to win assuming black stopped checking
Ha ha your channel is making me better. Didnât take the time to figure it out but it felt instinctively like all you had to do was break that symmetry and you were gonna win.
moral of the story: use higher depth stockfish
Basically, this is a scenario where the general rule of 'the one with more material is in most cases winning' seems to be incorrect because of the weird position, but it is still correct.
The beginner, not knowing that general rules have exceptions (and this one in particular, many exceptions), simply stated 'White has more pieces, white is winning'.
The more experienced players both thought... hmm this is a puzzle and a weird set-up, probably the general rule doesn't apply, the doubt is if black win or draws the game. One said that black wins, and the other that black draws.
And then, in the end, it's revealed that the general rule still applies.
My answer at 2:54. White wins if it can get to ...Qa2+; Qc3+ to force the queen exchange. But that means white needs to swap queen and the rook that's initially at d4, but I don't believe there's a point for white to do that, as the pawn at e4 can't leave its place without denying e5 to the Queen as the queen needs the rook in a corner to go diagonally but neither bishop not pawn can't get off its path and once c6 is done to block a check, which I don't see how to avoid without getting into a perpetual, I can't see how to make the queen change to go clockwise and even then I don't think it's possible as then it's the pawn at e6 blocking the corner for the other rook to get the queen to swap side with by a diagonal block.
Edit: Dang, I saw the ...Qd3 possibility but didn't follow that in the moment I thought of it and then I got too fixated on blocking with a check with the queen as to go back consider that one.
Really shows you need to be open to new possibilities.
Queens are so powerful sometimes you forget they're also so damnably tricky.
Never overlook tiny details, even if they seem insignificant or rather, downright stupid - they could lead to big mistakes
Martin: I'm about to ruin this man's whole career
A girl as an absolute beginner in chess literally outclassed a highly experienced chess expert. This old man was amazing with this puzzle. I thought it was a draw.
No, she got it correct by blind luck. She said it was because there were more pieces, so that immediately signifies that she knew nothing about the game at all. Secondly, the chances of this playing out exactly like that would be extremely slim, and, without doing it multiple times, most people would mess up the order of the white piece movements in a timed match or not, and would end up losing.
I let Stockfish run for hours: Depth 84 sees M26 for white. However, after move 13 for white, it realizes that it's only mate in 12 from there. Therefore, it's Mate after 24 moves, as far as I know.
If white wants it to end in a draw isn't it easier to just move the rook back and forth instead of going on the merry-go-round?
yeah, but when playing chess, it is sometimes better to make moves that might make is easier for your opponent to blunder, or perhaps to give yourself more time to think of something better than a draw.
The idea is that White knows the position isn't losing and has winning chances if they find this move. I would have drawn it too I guess.
If it was stated that "white must draw" then sure, just move the rook back and forth. The nature of the problem is not knowing if it's a win, lose or draw so you should always check every line, avoiding loses while looking for a win. The merry-go-round is there to check if the line can end in something other than a draw.
@@leandrorositto8238 I 100% would have drawn or blundered into the stalemate.
@@ZyphLegend but then you run the risk of blundering into the mate by Black.....
That little girl sounds like it might have been my daughter, she is a little âknow it allâ aswel đ
based on skill is only way to determine a winner if draws can be tossed out white is obvious because the multiple chances, but can also go both ways based on skills.
âbecause it has more piecesâ is only one of the reasons
Man my classmates would lose the pawns instantly then get stalemated
Really nice, one have always to be openminded!
The cheater should have used faster analysis. After about 1 second, it switched to #24 for me.
Excellent. I also missed the queen sac, thinking it was a draw.