Your tag line for drum nerds should be “Doing all the things to mess with drums that you never had time for” seriously love all the little experiments you guys do. Keep it up?
I've seen a few guys demonstrate this method, including Dave Weckl and Wil Calhoun. It's not meant to be used on the top head only, but the bottom also. I believe the purpose of this method actually is not to tune the drum completely. The purpose of the wrinkle method (as I understand it) is to quickly get the drum into the ballpark of the fundamental pitch of the drum. Once you get into the right ballpark, you go around matching lug pitch around the drum by "tuning up to a pitch". You have to practise a bit to figure out how hard to push. Push lightly for rock tuning. Push hard for bop tuning! 😃🤣 Bob Gatzen has a video where he uses something similar to this for his bass drum. He tensions his kick so that wrinkles are still present, but when he pulls his hand away, the wrinkles disappear. I have varying degrees of success.with it. Depends on the kit and which drum within the kit and how panicked I am to get a kit sounding great in a hurry. 😬.
rob brown uses it as an quickie .. do and done method. and his concept was retuning a P.O.S out of tune house kit with tons of background noise and very little time to do it.
I use it as a starting point and and tune up to "taste" one thing everyone always misses talking about this concept is HOW MUCH weight/ pressure to put in the middle. if you press hard enough there will be wrinkles up into almost jazz tuning, don't press hard enough and the head will still flop
I don't use a finger or two, or even a flat hand. I make a fist and put it dead center into the head. I press quite hard. Not hard enough to damage the head, but enough to make the wrinkles pop everywhere. Then I make one full turn at every tension rod until I see no more wrinkles. From there I fine tune the pitch to my ear's desired pleasure. Sometimes I tune down, sometimes I tune up. It just depends on the sound I am going for at that moment. I first picked this way of tuning up from Rob "Beatdown" Brown's CZcams page some years ago. Guy is a phenomenal drummer, and a great teacher.
@Trevian Harrell His early videos were done with a shoddy camera and mic, so it sounded distorted, which is where you probably hear the toms sounding bad. Brown recently did some new videos with much better cameras and mics and the drums sound great. I've been using this method for years, and never had a problem with the sound of my drums. And while his first videos on tuning didn't talk about fine tuning the toms, his new video does. At the end of the day it's up to you how you tune, but whole "JAW" method as you call it allows you to tune quick, and cut out all the mis-tuned rods issue most drummers run into where they have to tap at every rod to get them tuning right. Regardless how you tune, it is all about listening for a good tone.
Why should drummers have to agree on a method? Not every method works for every drum/drumhead/drummer. That's why we cover a variety of approaches/tactics to help arm drummers with the information necessary to make an informed decision when it comes to tuning. At the same time there are a lot of people preaching anecdotal experiences as hard science/best practices. Again, this is why we aim to provide our expertise based on our experiences and unique knowledge.
@Trevian Harrell I heard nothing of the sort, and again, there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with the tuning method here. You don't want to use it, fine. You want to teach future drummers another way. Good on ya. But there is nothing wrong with this tuning method either.
@@SoundsLikeADrum And that's why I love your program. I learn so much from other points-of-view. There is a wide array of ways of tuning, dampening, and other tricks of the trade to get the sound you want. Do what works for you. If you think it's of value, then teach it. I look forward to the next episode, as I am certain I will learn something new. :)
I played at a Summer festival gig last Saturday where multiple bands were booked for the entire weekend with the drummers using the 5 piece back-line kit which of course sounded like c-r-a-p!....had done the same gig last year using the b-l kit and from that experience knew enough to bring my own 4 piece kit this time....after the set was done, the sound tech came to me and said "your kit sounds mental"....as in "great" mental and asked how I tuned the kit....I had learned this method from Rob Brown's video on the subject.....the following day I dropped in at the venue and showed the techie how to go about using this method....my method employs a bit more pressure on the head when tensioning out the wrinkles...this results in a somewhat tighter and higher pitch....I'll put the drum on the floor and lean into it using the first two finger knuckles to concentrate pressure in the center of the head while tensioning the rods.....reso side and batter side... I also explained to the techie that this is for the most part a starting point and can be tweaked up or down to taste....which is what I usually end up doing..... It also allows a non-drummer techie, make a back-line kit at least sound acceptable in the event it comes in with really bad tuning.....so, to make a long story longer, that back-line kit sounded a whole nicer going through the FOH system....alas, it was kind of too late as all the bands were done for the weekend.....but useful for the next time. I also tuned up the snare which was especially BAD!....loose snare wires and heads!...So my method is more BJAW....Beyond Just Above Wrinkle.....but it works for me, as it obviously does for many other drummers....and for those who like to employ a more scientific and/or musical approach, well, that's cool too!
This channel is so useful it's insane. I've learned more about drum tuning and drums in general from your videos in a few months than by playing drums for years. Thanks for the great videos!
Great Video! In a similar vein (tuning by tension rather than by pitch,) I think it would be interesting if you compared some of the different tools that are available to drummers for tuning, like Drumdial or Tunebot, and show us what advantages (and disadvantages) there are in using these tools.
This is the tuning method I use for all my toms. I found out about it thru Rob Brown on CZcams and I find both heads are the relatively the same pitch which gives you the fullness you want, if that is what you're looking for. Then if you wanted the heads tuned higher or lower move the heads at least a quarter turn up or down until you find the pitch you like and/or it feels good when you strike the drum if you need more or less rebound. This method really works for me and it's definitely a time saver for sure!!
I simply love how this channel respect others views despite the method isn't a tuning method to me. The moment I've seen this method somewhere, my thoughts are exactly what this video mentioned. Simply love these great treasure content! ❤️
I've found that this method works really well if you do the JAW thing first, and then even out the pitches around the head. It's especially useful for putting on new heads, as it can be kind of difficult to get everything seated and tuned correctly sometimes. I especially like this as a starting point when "breaking in" new heads, because I tend to play at medium/tight tunings, but I don't want to crank the heads right away and lose some of the tuning range.
I've been using the "tune it flat" method for a couple of years now. I won't say that the drum won't need any tweaking, but for me, it gives me a good starting point that I can work with. I used to cringe with fear every time I changed heads. But now I feel I can change heads and quickly come up with a sound that is useable albeit maybe not optimal. They always need a 1/8 to 1/2 turn or so when I get to a new venue anyway. Plus, there is the wear factor. I want to invest in a Drum Dial, but I also want a new ride cymbal...a new snare ... a new hi hat stand and uh, a new kick drum mic, oh yeah and a new audio interface and uh, and uh...to infinity, lol!!! You guys do a great job explaining the mystical things about drums that us mere mortals can not quite comprehend. Thank you for that!!! Please do a show about "how in the 70's, no one used reso heads on toms or kicks and the drums still sounded great"
Like several others here I've found this gets to usable tone pretty quick. It's great for tuning a house kit fast. It does take some practice. Unless in a hurry I take several passes starting with a star pattern to keep the rim/head level. Then later passes I just go clockwise. Most of the time it yields a good tone from the drum, and usually the lugs come out pretty close so it's easy to clear and then adjust the pitch. Several people commented about tune-bots not working well for them. I have a tune-bot style app and it's educational to look at the freq response graph coming off the head. The normal tune-bot mode will report a single frequency, but when things seem to get wonky looking at the freq response graph will sometimes show double peaks or other shapes that kind of explain why the tune-bot doesn't seem to be working consistently. I think the tune-bot is choosing one frequency which can be deceptive.
To me, the point of this method is to specifically not get an even tuning but still avoiding "dead spots" on the head where there is no tension. Because the head is unevenly tensioned, it's not in tune with itself, and all the diffent pitches and overtones present can create interference and they'll eventually cancel each other out. In other words, it creates a cluster. I found that by doing this method and then tensioning up the head (I wanted it a little higher) and having the reso well in tune gave me a clear note, lots of attack and it minimized overtones (bring it too high and it bcomes kind of a mess). That's also why it works well with bass drums : an uneven tuning will prevent the head from resonating too much and therefore favorizes a short sound with no discernable pitch.
Agreed, I did the wrinkle "method"...for a minute anyway, but matching the pitch 2 inches in front of each lug will give you a more "in tune" and resonant drum. It doesn't save me any time either. Under the gun, I can tune my whole kit in 10 minutes with pitch matching, but it takes practice of course.
I first saw this mentioned and used by Will Kennedy of the Yellowjackets. His kit always sounds killer. Think there may be a video on youtube of him doing this exact thing.
This works in a pinch. Especially on house kits. Not the best for studio work and stuff like that, but I have had pretty good success with this. Push harder than you might think, stop turning the second they start to disappear. Helps keep them even. Also finger tighten first. More importamt than you might think. It is like tuning by ear. Takes practice. Rob Brown pretty much only tunes this (per him) and his stuff sounds good. Love the channel by the way. Very informative and thorough
Wasn't aware that this is an approach that Rob uses. We've seen this from more than a handful of drum companies and a few touring drummers as well. Cheers! -Ben
I've used this method with a 22" kick & have had good luck with it. Besides that, I've used it on 14" & 16" floor toms, reso & batter, & I'm finding it also works great on them. However, I won't even try it on my rack toms (10" or 12"). I attempted it once on a 10" & saw hardly any wrinkles. A kick drum's batter & floor toms' reso/batter I seem to have no problems with. In fact, on my new Tama (not my '86 Ludwig), I was having problems finding the sweet spots of my floor toms until I used the wrinkle method.
I got a chuckle when you said you lost track of which lugs you turned. Still laughing a bit. It happens to me all the time. With a 10 lug snare it’s annoying. One thing I do is lightly swipe the head near the lug and tap the tension rod head which will give you the pitch that lug is at. Seems to work. Especially with diecast hoops where you might have a bit more or less tension at one lug, the tapping helps to detect the under or over tightened lug.
I've tried this technique before with good success. I find it gets you a useable sound quickly, but I agree that when you tune a few tension rods, it's harder to see where the other wrinkled ones are. It's definitely easier with a clear head with a light shining on it.
I can imagine a clear head might be a bit of a nightmare to tune like this without being able to see the shadows of the wrinkles. It was enough of a challenge in a controlled environment with our lighting setup and coated heads. Still, if it works...it works! -Ben
@Trevian Harrell Ah, I see - you're looking for the reflections. See, this dialog is always great! Still, can't say this tuning approach really sold us but glad to hear that it's working for some people!
@Trevian Harrell Exactly that, Trevian. That's what I was getting that. I wouldn't use this technique in a studio setting as a final tom sound (maybe as a starting point and making adjustments, possibly), but in a live setting where you don't have a lot of time, and it's too noisy to hear if the toms sound good, this will work... but yeah, clear heads are definitely needed so you can see the wrinkles better when you shine a little bit of light on the drum.
I've been a percussionist since I was 5 or 6 yrs old. I'm 64 now still play Dailey still perform. Anyway.. I've always used this method. Tone and pitch I adjust with the resonator side. I use normal star method. Really it's not brain surgery. Anyway it's always worked for me and never had complaints about my drum sound. But like I said I've been doing it a long time. Still have my first snare even. 63 Ludwig slim.
I'm a new drummer and I've gotten the best sound from my drums by using the quick method of press-in-the-middle-and-tune-each-lug-until-the-wrinkles-go-away-no-worry-about-even-lug-tension. When I tune with my TuneBot formulas while keeping the pitch on all lugs the same pitch as I tighten they don't sound as good. Interesting that when tuning really low you are really just getting the sound of the heads and not the shell. I have some experimenting to do it looks like.
Always buy Evans heads. as a gigging drummer Evans hasn't fallen apart on me like Remo has. Evans holds up to the abuse I put them under and I love the tones I get out of them
@Trevian Harrell One question on the notes. What I was doing before was F A C (as the fundamental pitches) starting with lower tom. I notice, that your suggestions have the hi and low tom at the same pitch, even when there isn't a middle tom. Can you explain why you would choose one over the other? I'll be trying your tuning method and notes this week end.
1. tuned too low 2. wrinkles disappeared after a few lugs 3. out of tune head All symptoms of not having put enough pressure on the head. You should apply about 8 lbs of force, and it appeared you were using about 4 to 5. ;)
Excelente videos, but I have to say that this method for tuning, works when you make much more pressure. You have to put almost the weight of you Bodie with you hand and make pressure. I use a 15 kg weight and the tuning is perfect!
Thanks! Wow- that's quite a bit more weight that we've seen it demonstrated with. We'll certainly continue to experiment and will likely produce some additional videos on the just-above-wrinkle tuning in the future. Cheers! -Ben
You have to start this method with the tension rods just at finger tight. After the wrinkles are out the head will be close, that's when you fine tune. Do this on both heads. Work's great.
Seems a little brutal, but it's something to consider if you're investing serious money into your drums for sonic purposes. If the drums themselves aren't really resonating much, are you seeing the return on that investment? Of course, if it's your desired sound, we're not going to tell you it's wrong, but you could probably save some money on drums and invest them into the drumheads you're going to likely need to be changing more often. Just our two cents. 😉 -Ben
Nice. I did this for a little while, it was okay. I wonder if it's worth having maybe other folks do this method to help you get ready to tune drums up, cause then you can just focus on tone knowing that the head is seated.
Quality information at it's finest 🙂 Have you guys concidered covering some of the tuning aids like the tension watches and that type of stuff, when and if they're applicable and what could be the benefits/drawbacks with them? All the best 🙂
Thanks so much! That definitely comes up from time to time. We don't use them (we're generally happier with the sound and more efficient with our ears) but we'll likely address this in a future video or two. Cheers! -Ben
I've found that a variable is the non uniform pressure you exert on the head while removing the wrinkles. I have better luck with method by placing a weight on the drum head ( kettle-bell, can of vegetables, etc) which will not be subjective. As mentioned this works less well for rack toms than for FTs and kicks.
@Trevian Harrell ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I TUNE THE BOTTOM HEAD TILL THE WRINKLES ARE GONE AND DO THE SAME TO THE TOP HEAD AND THEY ARE GOOD TO GO I RARELY EVER HAVE TO TUNE THEM FOR PITCH BUT WHEN I DO I PICK ONE LUG ON TOP AND MAKE A 1/4" TURN THEN PUCK THE EXACT SAME LUG ON THE BOTTOM AND TURN IT A1/4" AT A TIME . YOU CAN USE THAT TO GO UP OR DOWN
Great video as always! What would you say about tuning both top and bottom heads to the same pitch? My issue is that when I try to tune the heads the same, I still end of with a batter head that doesn’t feel “pleasant” or good to the stick. How can I remedy this?
Honestly had no idea that so many people attributed this to Rob. This is a method that I came across several years ago and have seen multiple drum builders reference in videos. I know your comment is meant jokingly, but I want to be clear that this is in no way a "call out" or critique of any individual. -Ben
For this to work, you have to have the lugs screwed in to the point of touching the hoop. Starting from totally loose, you're going to tighten the first few way too much.
Hey! Canon 5D Mk IV for the wide shot, Canon 6D for the close up, Canon 7D for the off-axis drum close up, (each with Canon L-series glass) and a GoPro Hero 4 Black for the overhead. Microphone is an Audio Technica shotgun mic that is no longer in production. Cheers! -Ben
Interesting stuff! I tried JAW tuning my toms at a show last weekend, and it created a bizarre situation (to me). My floor tom is 18" and normally rings a lot more than my 13" rack does in my usual tuning range. However, taking the floor batter as low as I deemed reasonable eliminated all overtones; it was dead but not too dead, awesome. I did the same to the rack, expecting a similar result, but no matter what I did (without dampening), the rack became the drum that insisted on ringing like hell! It only stopped if I tuned the batter so low it wrinkled. Could this just be the frequency produced by the rack's heads activating the shell? It was the only thing I could think of, as my floor's reso had just one strip of tape, and my rack's reso wound up with four! You make a great point that JAW tuning is really for close mic'd toms though; in the end, the rack still sounded crap to me sat behind the kit, but out front, both toms sounded HUGE, I was so pleased.
I think that you could have gone in smaller turns on each lug. Because now you had two lugs musisng and the wrinkles were nearly gone. If you go in smaller terms then you have to do all the lugs to make the head flat. I have used this technique a few times and I am totally with you when you say it is more for getting into the ballpark of an even tuning. I always go lug by lug after that to make sure that the head is in tune with itself. And even with getting rid off the wrinkles it is important to go in the typical star pattern. Also with that technique it is important to have a constant pressure on the head while tuning because depending on how hard you press you have bigger wrinkles that stay longer. So if you press softer and tune the wrinkles out the head is obviously at a lower tension than if you would have pressed harder. But I really like this technique over all for tuning a head up quick to tension and then do the fine work.
It’s because of many of these reasons that we don’t really think we’ll be employing this approach over what’s worked for both of us in the past without fail. -Ben
The best thing you can do is get yourself to a place where you can hear your drums as clearly as possible. One trick that has helped quite a bit in the past when clearing heads (getting all of the lugs to the same pitch) in a noisy environment is to turn the snares on, loosen them a bit and listen for the "wobble" in sympathetic resonance. If you're tuning a tom, bring it closer to the snare to help promote the sympathetic resonance and use it to identify which lugs are out of tune from the rest. We'll do a video on this in the future. Cheers! -Ben
Thanks! Yep- that seems to be the case. Yet we've seen this approach demonstrated quite a bit with snare drums as well (and always with coated heads). In the end, you can run your finger around the circumference to verify if there are any wrinkles present. Cheers! -Ben
I want to name drop the Tune Bot. Anyone familiar? It may seem like cheating, but it has taken away a lot of the guess work and helped me tune way more consistently.
Machine Head drummer in the past wrinkle-tensioned his toms, just to piss off the sound guy, because he told him beforehand his drums sounded like crap. Weird thing is that sound guy loved the resulting sound.
@@SoundsLikeADrum That was on an interview for a French drum magazine, when I was a teen. At the minute, I'm struggling to find more over the Internet... I'll keep you updated if I succeed.
We've made passing reference to this quite a few times in our videos but will be making a dedicated video that demonstrates, discusses, and advises on this in the near future. Cheers! -Ben
I did this with one Tom and it sounded great but the other toms were very flat thud sounding, so even though it’s a pain in the ass for this OCD guitar player to tune my drums properly, I’m going to find that pitch! Might be two years before the whole kits in tune😂
It's possible that what you're describing had more to do with the relationship between the batter and reso heads than the seating and clearing of a single head. The more you experiment and determine what methods yield your preferred sound(s), the easier it becomes. Best of luck! -Ben
@@warrenoids This works well for us on rack toms and we tend to prefer a tighter interval for floor toms. Still, it's important to tune, listen, assess, tweak and the listen to the change. This is the best way to get to know how your drums can sound and are affected by different batter v. reso tunings. Cheers! -Ben
Would it be possible to balance the playing volume to the speaking volume in future vids? Even using headphones the playing segments are 3-6db less in gain. Hard to hear the subtlety of the instrument with the volume shift. Enjoying the detailed content! 👌
Ah yes, I had a feeling this would come up. Believe it or not, everything is balanced in volume. Since we don't compress the drum sounds, the attack (particularly with this tuning captured off-axis for the demonstration) is quite loud and the transient peaks at the same volume level. This is just something that's inherent with an honest sonic representation and lowering the volume of the narrative would bring it down quite a bit lower than most other videos. Hopefully adjusting the volume between the sections didn't prevent you from enjoying the video and gaining some insight. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Might just be someone's false memory that was written on Pearldrummersforum. The tuning of the toms at least on "Derek Roddy - Controlling Speed (FULL DRUM LESSON)" is definitely finger tight.
Hmmm, just looked up the video. Very....interesting drum tones. Kind of what you'd expect in a small room with the drums tuned in a way that isn't meant to activate the shell and/or project and not close-mic'd.
Can tuning by notes be situational? I have an ear for tuning and I’ve always been into more tuning. I like my toms to be tuned correlating to A natural.
Absolutely! Really, there are no rules as to what you tune to as long as the sound fits the context (and, of course, that's entirely subjective). We did an episode on tuning drums to specific pitches here: czcams.com/video/GWbyUnEULME/video.html
This is similar to the gene hoglan method... get it as high as you can with pressure on the rim and your hands. No drum key. I like how that sounds. Nice short decay, punchy and low.
Good stuff! Didn't know that was Gene's preferred tuning approach. Is there somewhere online where he references this? Is that just for the batter heads? -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Gene Hoglan was on drumeo for a couple of episodes... czcams.com/video/FArpzF1Sn68/video.html A little over 31 minutes in, he starts talking about drum tuning. He doesn't mention if he does it on batters only or both sides. I do it for both personally and it sounds pretty close to his toms. Short sustain, punchy, etc, so I assume he does it for both.
We've filmed some elements of this as part of a "myth busting" feature and will gather up some more demonstrations to include in the near future. Cheers! -Ben
I've not had much success with this method. My drums always sound muddy and dead, maybe it's my preference for higher tunings in rock settings ala Copeland. I feel like if your finger is not absolutely 100% deal center then you can not possibly tune evenly just by tuning out the wrinkles. It goes back to your prior video talking about heads not being seated center. Not bashing you guys, the video, or the topic, just sharing my personal experiences with this method.
We totally hear you and that's one of the reasons why don't really employ this method ourselves (with the occasional exception of the bass drum for low tuning in rock-oriented musical contexts). We wanted to cover it though because we've had more than a few inquiries. Cheers! -Ben
OKAY, so I've done this tuning a couple of times, and for it to work in most musical situations, the HEAD has got to be at least a G14, G1's and other Evans single ply heads do not work very well at this tuning, 2nd, for toms I've found you want to go pretty low, on the bottom head, what I call L. R. P. meaning lowest resonating pitch, and then for snares, usually the complete opposite.
Hey! It for sure has in my experience, but more because the head just absorbs all of the energy of the strike at such a low tension - that's where all that attack comes from when you tune like this. I've seen tom heads totally smoked in a day from tuning like this and only playing medium-hard. Stick type and tip affect that too... - Cody
i completely hate tuning drums. ive played for years and have never been able to do it, absolute minefield. every once in a while i watch a video where they say its really simple and not to overthink it. i do this, they sound crap - i get annoyed and pay my old drum teacher to tune them and the cycle starts again. feels so pathetic that i still cant make them sound good but i just dont get it, the sound of an isolated drum is so alien from when youre actually playing them
This channel is my hidden little treasure on youtube
🙌 Glad you're enjoying it! We've got even more exclusive content coming out on our Patreon if you're interested! -Ben
Mine too. Beautifully presented.
Your tag line for drum nerds should be “Doing all the things to mess with drums that you never had time for” seriously love all the little experiments you guys do. Keep it up?
I've seen a few guys demonstrate this method, including Dave Weckl and Wil Calhoun. It's not meant to be used on the top head only, but the bottom also. I believe the purpose of this method actually is not to tune the drum completely. The purpose of the wrinkle method (as I understand it) is to quickly get the drum into the ballpark of the fundamental pitch of the drum. Once you get into the right ballpark, you go around matching lug pitch around the drum by "tuning up to a pitch".
You have to practise a bit to figure out how hard to push. Push lightly for rock tuning. Push hard for bop tuning! 😃🤣
Bob Gatzen has a video where he uses something similar to this for his bass drum. He tensions his kick so that wrinkles are still present, but when he pulls his hand away, the wrinkles disappear.
I have varying degrees of success.with it. Depends on the kit and which drum within the kit and how panicked I am to get a kit sounding great in a hurry. 😬.
rob brown uses it as an quickie .. do and done method. and his concept was retuning a P.O.S out of tune house kit with tons of background noise and very little time to do it.
I use it as a starting point and and tune up to "taste" one thing everyone always misses talking about this concept is HOW MUCH weight/ pressure to put in the middle. if you press hard enough there will be wrinkles up into almost jazz tuning, don't press hard enough and the head will still flop
I don't use a finger or two, or even a flat hand. I make a fist and put it dead center into the head. I press quite hard. Not hard enough to damage the head, but enough to make the wrinkles pop everywhere. Then I make one full turn at every tension rod until I see no more wrinkles. From there I fine tune the pitch to my ear's desired pleasure. Sometimes I tune down, sometimes I tune up. It just depends on the sound I am going for at that moment. I first picked this way of tuning up from Rob "Beatdown" Brown's CZcams page some years ago. Guy is a phenomenal drummer, and a great teacher.
@Trevian Harrell That is your opinion and nothing more. Just as it is my opinion, and nothing more, that his drums sound fantastic.
@Trevian Harrell His early videos were done with a shoddy camera and mic, so it sounded distorted, which is where you probably hear the toms sounding bad. Brown recently did some new videos with much better cameras and mics and the drums sound great. I've been using this method for years, and never had a problem with the sound of my drums. And while his first videos on tuning didn't talk about fine tuning the toms, his new video does. At the end of the day it's up to you how you tune, but whole "JAW" method as you call it allows you to tune quick, and cut out all the mis-tuned rods issue most drummers run into where they have to tap at every rod to get them tuning right. Regardless how you tune, it is all about listening for a good tone.
Why should drummers have to agree on a method? Not every method works for every drum/drumhead/drummer. That's why we cover a variety of approaches/tactics to help arm drummers with the information necessary to make an informed decision when it comes to tuning. At the same time there are a lot of people preaching anecdotal experiences as hard science/best practices. Again, this is why we aim to provide our expertise based on our experiences and unique knowledge.
@Trevian Harrell I heard nothing of the sort, and again, there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with the tuning method here. You don't want to use it, fine. You want to teach future drummers another way. Good on ya. But there is nothing wrong with this tuning method either.
@@SoundsLikeADrum And that's why I love your program. I learn so much from other points-of-view. There is a wide array of ways of tuning, dampening, and other tricks of the trade to get the sound you want. Do what works for you. If you think it's of value, then teach it. I look forward to the next episode, as I am certain I will learn something new. :)
I played at a Summer festival gig last Saturday where multiple bands were booked for the entire weekend with the drummers using the 5 piece back-line kit which of course sounded like c-r-a-p!....had done the same gig last year using the b-l kit and from that experience knew enough to bring my own 4 piece kit this time....after the set was done, the sound tech came to me and said "your kit sounds mental"....as in "great" mental and asked how I tuned the kit....I had learned this method from Rob Brown's video on the subject.....the following day I dropped in at the venue and showed the techie how to go about using this method....my method employs a bit more pressure on the head when tensioning out the wrinkles...this results in a somewhat tighter and higher pitch....I'll put the drum on the floor and lean into it using the first two finger knuckles to concentrate pressure in the center of the head while tensioning the rods.....reso side and batter side... I also explained to the techie that this is for the most part a starting point and can be tweaked up or down to taste....which is what I usually end up doing..... It also allows a non-drummer techie, make a back-line kit at least sound acceptable in the event it comes in with really bad tuning.....so, to make a long story longer, that back-line kit sounded a whole nicer going through the FOH system....alas, it was kind of too late as all the bands were done for the weekend.....but useful for the next time. I also tuned up the snare which was especially BAD!....loose snare wires and heads!...So my method is more BJAW....Beyond Just Above Wrinkle.....but it works for me, as it obviously does for many other drummers....and for those who like to employ a more scientific and/or musical approach, well, that's cool too!
I become so addicted to your channel I barely can wait from Tuesday to Tuesday. Awesome work guys!
Thanks so much! If you're hungry for more, we're releasing additional content on our Patreon: www.patreon.com/soundslikeadrum
This channel is so useful it's insane. I've learned more about drum tuning and drums in general from your videos in a few months than by playing drums for years. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks- glad to hear it! -Ben
Great Video! In a similar vein (tuning by tension rather than by pitch,) I think it would be interesting if you compared some of the different tools that are available to drummers for tuning, like Drumdial or Tunebot, and show us what advantages (and disadvantages) there are in using these tools.
Thanks! This may be something that we do in the future on our Patreon and potentially as bonus content here on CZcams later on. Cheers! -Ben
This is the tuning method I use for all my toms. I found out about it thru Rob Brown on CZcams and I find both heads are the relatively the same pitch which gives you the fullness you want, if that is what you're looking for. Then if you wanted the heads tuned higher or lower move the heads at least a quarter turn up or down until you find the pitch you like and/or it feels good when you strike the drum if you need more or less rebound. This method really works for me and it's definitely a time saver for sure!!
I simply love how this channel respect others views despite the method isn't a tuning method to me. The moment I've seen this method somewhere, my thoughts are exactly what this video mentioned. Simply love these great treasure content! ❤️
Thank you so much for the kind words- we really appreciate it! -Ben
Always great advice. Thank you.
I've found that this method works really well if you do the JAW thing first, and then even out the pitches around the head. It's especially useful for putting on new heads, as it can be kind of difficult to get everything seated and tuned correctly sometimes. I especially like this as a starting point when "breaking in" new heads, because I tend to play at medium/tight tunings, but I don't want to crank the heads right away and lose some of the tuning range.
I'm glad that you made this video, I seen this type of tuning before and was really unsure of the results
Thanks! That's exactly why we decided to do this. Cheers! -Ben
Another great one guys.
Rob Brown method 🙌👊
I've been using the "tune it flat" method for a couple of years now. I won't say that the drum won't need any tweaking, but for me, it gives me a good starting point that I can work with. I used to cringe with fear every time I changed heads. But now I feel I can change heads and quickly come up with a sound that is useable albeit maybe not optimal. They always need a 1/8 to 1/2 turn or so when I get to a new venue anyway. Plus, there is the wear factor. I want to invest in a Drum Dial, but I also want a new ride cymbal...a new snare ... a new hi hat stand and uh, a new kick drum mic, oh yeah and a new audio interface and uh, and uh...to infinity, lol!!! You guys do a great job explaining the mystical things about drums that us mere mortals can not quite comprehend. Thank you for that!!! Please do a show about "how in the 70's, no one used reso heads on toms or kicks and the drums still sounded great"
Like several others here I've found this gets to usable tone pretty quick. It's great for tuning a house kit fast. It does take some practice. Unless in a hurry I take several passes starting with a star pattern to keep the rim/head level. Then later passes I just go clockwise. Most of the time it yields a good tone from the drum, and usually the lugs come out pretty close so it's easy to clear and then adjust the pitch.
Several people commented about tune-bots not working well for them. I have a tune-bot style app and it's educational to look at the freq response graph coming off the head. The normal tune-bot mode will report a single frequency, but when things seem to get wonky looking at the freq response graph will sometimes show double peaks or other shapes that kind of explain why the tune-bot doesn't seem to be working consistently. I think the tune-bot is choosing one frequency which can be deceptive.
Your vids are awesome! Thanks again 🤘😀👍
Thanks for the support! -Ben
To me, the point of this method is to specifically not get an even tuning but still avoiding "dead spots" on the head where there is no tension. Because the head is unevenly tensioned, it's not in tune with itself, and all the diffent pitches and overtones present can create interference and they'll eventually cancel each other out. In other words, it creates a cluster. I found that by doing this method and then tensioning up the head (I wanted it a little higher) and having the reso well in tune gave me a clear note, lots of attack and it minimized overtones (bring it too high and it bcomes kind of a mess). That's also why it works well with bass drums : an uneven tuning will prevent the head from resonating too much and therefore favorizes a short sound with no discernable pitch.
Agreed, I did the wrinkle "method"...for a minute anyway, but matching the pitch 2 inches in front of each lug will give you a more "in tune" and resonant drum.
It doesn't save me any time either. Under the gun, I can tune my whole kit in 10 minutes with pitch matching, but it takes practice of course.
I first saw this mentioned and used by Will Kennedy of the Yellowjackets. His kit always sounds killer. Think there may be a video on youtube of him doing this exact thing.
Best drumming channel on CZcams!
Thanks so much for the support! -Ben
First thing I do when watching a new video is smashing Like!
Well, it must be Tuesday, because I just watched another awesome video. Great job. See you next week.
Thanks so much!
This works in a pinch. Especially on house kits. Not the best for studio work and stuff like that, but I have had pretty good success with this.
Push harder than you might think, stop turning the second they start to disappear. Helps keep them even. Also finger tighten first. More importamt than you might think.
It is like tuning by ear. Takes practice. Rob Brown pretty much only tunes this (per him) and his stuff sounds good.
Love the channel by the way. Very informative and thorough
Rob brown!
Wasn't aware that this is an approach that Rob uses. We've seen this from more than a handful of drum companies and a few touring drummers as well. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum watch this:
czcams.com/video/lLEjrq_TFRg/video.html
Great videos by the way. Wish I could get sounds like you do out of my drums...
You should have a lot more subs and views
Quality content!
I've used this method with a 22" kick & have had good luck with it. Besides that, I've used it on 14" & 16" floor toms, reso & batter, & I'm finding it also works great on them. However, I won't even try it on my rack toms (10" or 12"). I attempted it once on a 10" & saw hardly any wrinkles. A kick drum's batter & floor toms' reso/batter I seem to have no problems with. In fact, on my new Tama (not my '86 Ludwig), I was having problems finding the sweet spots of my floor toms until I used the wrinkle method.
I got a chuckle when you said you lost track of which lugs you turned. Still laughing a bit. It happens to me all the time. With a 10 lug snare it’s annoying. One thing I do is lightly swipe the head near the lug and tap the tension rod head which will give you the pitch that lug is at. Seems to work. Especially with diecast hoops where you might have a bit more or less tension at one lug, the tapping helps to detect the under or over tightened lug.
I've tried this technique before with good success. I find it gets you a useable sound quickly, but I agree that when you tune a few tension rods, it's harder to see where the other wrinkled ones are. It's definitely easier with a clear head with a light shining on it.
I can imagine a clear head might be a bit of a nightmare to tune like this without being able to see the shadows of the wrinkles. It was enough of a challenge in a controlled environment with our lighting setup and coated heads. Still, if it works...it works! -Ben
@Trevian Harrell Ah, I see - you're looking for the reflections. See, this dialog is always great! Still, can't say this tuning approach really sold us but glad to hear that it's working for some people!
@Trevian Harrell Exactly that, Trevian. That's what I was getting that. I wouldn't use this technique in a studio setting as a final tom sound (maybe as a starting point and making adjustments, possibly), but in a live setting where you don't have a lot of time, and it's too noisy to hear if the toms sound good, this will work... but yeah, clear heads are definitely needed so you can see the wrinkles better when you shine a little bit of light on the drum.
I've been a percussionist since I was 5 or 6 yrs old. I'm 64 now still play Dailey still perform. Anyway.. I've always used this method. Tone and pitch I adjust with the resonator side. I use normal star method. Really it's not brain surgery. Anyway it's always worked for me and never had complaints about my drum sound. But like I said I've been doing it a long time. Still have my first snare even. 63 Ludwig slim.
I'm a new drummer and I've gotten the best sound from my drums by using the quick method of press-in-the-middle-and-tune-each-lug-until-the-wrinkles-go-away-no-worry-about-even-lug-tension. When I tune with my TuneBot formulas while keeping the pitch on all lugs the same pitch as I tighten they don't sound as good.
Interesting that when tuning really low you are really just getting the sound of the heads and not the shell. I have some experimenting to do it looks like.
Always buy Evans heads. as a gigging drummer Evans hasn't fallen apart on me like Remo has. Evans holds up to the abuse I put them under and I love the tones I get out of them
@Trevian Harrell so what is the remedy? Seems like you can't get both.
@Trevian Harrell Thanks, I have 10/12/14 and then my old kit has 10/13.
@Trevian Harrell Old kit is an SPL Street Bop - Guitar Center/Musician's Friend brand.
@Trevian Harrell One question on the notes. What I was doing before was F A C (as the fundamental pitches) starting with lower tom. I notice, that your suggestions have the hi and low tom at the same pitch, even when there isn't a middle tom. Can you explain why you would choose one over the other? I'll be trying your tuning method and notes this week end.
Bonzo s drum tech , forget his name , had a video out called Trust Your Ears
Jeff Ocheltree?
1. tuned too low
2. wrinkles disappeared after a few lugs
3. out of tune head
All symptoms of not having put enough pressure on the head. You should apply about 8 lbs of force, and it appeared you were using about 4 to 5. ;)
Excelente videos, but I have to say that this method for tuning, works when you make much more pressure. You have to put almost the weight of you Bodie with you hand and make pressure. I use a 15 kg weight and the tuning is perfect!
Thanks! Wow- that's quite a bit more weight that we've seen it demonstrated with. We'll certainly continue to experiment and will likely produce some additional videos on the just-above-wrinkle tuning in the future. Cheers! -Ben
You have to start this method with the tension rods just at finger tight. After the wrinkles are out the head will be close, that's when you fine tune. Do this on both heads. Work's great.
Rob Brown wants to know your location
"If you like your drums" - that's brutal.
Seems a little brutal, but it's something to consider if you're investing serious money into your drums for sonic purposes. If the drums themselves aren't really resonating much, are you seeing the return on that investment? Of course, if it's your desired sound, we're not going to tell you it's wrong, but you could probably save some money on drums and invest them into the drumheads you're going to likely need to be changing more often. Just our two cents. 😉 -Ben
Oh, I'm all for a little brutality.
Nice. I did this for a little while, it was okay. I wonder if it's worth having maybe other folks do this method to help you get ready to tune drums up, cause then you can just focus on tone knowing that the head is seated.
That's definitely an interesting idea! -Ben
Quality information at it's finest 🙂 Have you guys concidered covering some of the tuning aids like the tension watches and that type of stuff, when and if they're applicable and what could be the benefits/drawbacks with them? All the best 🙂
Thanks so much! That definitely comes up from time to time. We don't use them (we're generally happier with the sound and more efficient with our ears) but we'll likely address this in a future video or two. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Thanks for the reply! I can't wait to see what you find usefull or not about those type of products 🙂 Cheers!
I've found that a variable is the non uniform pressure you exert on the head while removing the wrinkles. I have better luck with method by placing a weight on the drum head ( kettle-bell, can of vegetables, etc) which will not be subjective. As mentioned this works less well for rack toms than for FTs and kicks.
exactly what i do
@Trevian Harrell ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I TUNE THE BOTTOM HEAD TILL THE WRINKLES ARE GONE AND DO THE SAME TO THE TOP HEAD AND THEY ARE GOOD TO GO I RARELY EVER HAVE TO TUNE THEM FOR PITCH BUT WHEN I DO I PICK ONE LUG ON TOP AND MAKE A 1/4" TURN THEN PUCK THE EXACT SAME LUG ON THE BOTTOM AND TURN IT A1/4" AT A TIME . YOU CAN USE THAT TO GO UP OR DOWN
Great video as always! What would you say about tuning both top and bottom heads to the same pitch? My issue is that when I try to tune the heads the same, I still end of with a batter head that doesn’t feel “pleasant” or good to the stick. How can I remedy this?
Haha should title this video "ROB BROWN CALLIN YOU OUT!"
Honestly had no idea that so many people attributed this to Rob. This is a method that I came across several years ago and have seen multiple drum builders reference in videos. I know your comment is meant jokingly, but I want to be clear that this is in no way a "call out" or critique of any individual.
-Ben
For this to work, you have to have the lugs screwed in to the point of touching the hoop. Starting from totally loose, you're going to tighten the first few way too much.
Just great content guys. Curious what camera you're using and what mic for the commentary?
Hey! Canon 5D Mk IV for the wide shot, Canon 6D for the close up, Canon 7D for the off-axis drum close up, (each with Canon L-series glass) and a GoPro Hero 4 Black for the overhead. Microphone is an Audio Technica shotgun mic that is no longer in production. Cheers! -Ben
Try a 5# medicine ball on the head for smaller toms. 8-10# on bigger ones.
Look up Rob Brown tuning toms and watch the full video
Yes, we’re familiar. Thanks for watching!
Here's a tip; get 6-8 drum tuning keys to use and leave them on each lug, only moving your hand.
🤔
Interesting stuff! I tried JAW tuning my toms at a show last weekend, and it created a bizarre situation (to me). My floor tom is 18" and normally rings a lot more than my 13" rack does in my usual tuning range. However, taking the floor batter as low as I deemed reasonable eliminated all overtones; it was dead but not too dead, awesome. I did the same to the rack, expecting a similar result, but no matter what I did (without dampening), the rack became the drum that insisted on ringing like hell! It only stopped if I tuned the batter so low it wrinkled.
Could this just be the frequency produced by the rack's heads activating the shell? It was the only thing I could think of, as my floor's reso had just one strip of tape, and my rack's reso wound up with four!
You make a great point that JAW tuning is really for close mic'd toms though; in the end, the rack still sounded crap to me sat behind the kit, but out front, both toms sounded HUGE, I was so pleased.
I think that you could have gone in smaller turns on each lug. Because now you had two lugs musisng and the wrinkles were nearly gone. If you go in smaller terms then you have to do all the lugs to make the head flat. I have used this technique a few times and I am totally with you when you say it is more for getting into the ballpark of an even tuning. I always go lug by lug after that to make sure that the head is in tune with itself. And even with getting rid off the wrinkles it is important to go in the typical star pattern.
Also with that technique it is important to have a constant pressure on the head while tuning because depending on how hard you press you have bigger wrinkles that stay longer. So if you press softer and tune the wrinkles out the head is obviously at a lower tension than if you would have pressed harder.
But I really like this technique over all for tuning a head up quick to tension and then do the fine work.
It’s because of many of these reasons that we don’t really think we’ll be employing this approach over what’s worked for both of us in the past without fail. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum totally understand that. If a technique works great for you then there is no reason why you should change to another
Do you have any tips for tuning when you're in a noisy environment and can't hear the pitches clearly?
The best thing you can do is get yourself to a place where you can hear your drums as clearly as possible. One trick that has helped quite a bit in the past when clearing heads (getting all of the lugs to the same pitch) in a noisy environment is to turn the snares on, loosen them a bit and listen for the "wobble" in sympathetic resonance. If you're tuning a tom, bring it closer to the snare to help promote the sympathetic resonance and use it to identify which lugs are out of tune from the rest. We'll do a video on this in the future. Cheers! -Ben
Whack the hoop with your drumkey at each lug and listen to the pitch of the hoop :)
Great, but we NEED square vs shorter floor toms, like 16x16 vs 16x14.
We hear ya! Gonna have to have some drums custom made for all of the comparisons we want to do... -Ben
cool topic. its easier to see the wrinkles in clear heads
Thanks! Yep- that seems to be the case. Yet we've seen this approach demonstrated quite a bit with snare drums as well (and always with coated heads). In the end, you can run your finger around the circumference to verify if there are any wrinkles present. Cheers! -Ben
I know this as the rob “beatdown” brown method.
Lots of people attribute it to him because they discovered it through him but he wasn’t the first to do it.
I want to name drop the Tune Bot. Anyone familiar? It may seem like cheating, but it has taken away a lot of the guess work and helped me tune way more consistently.
Great tool that shouldn’t become a crutch. We’ll address this in a future video.
Machine Head drummer in the past wrinkle-tensioned his toms, just to piss off the sound guy, because he told him beforehand his drums sounded like crap. Weird thing is that sound guy loved the resulting sound.
Hmmm, that's interesting. What's the source for this?
@@SoundsLikeADrum That was on an interview for a French drum magazine, when I was a teen. At the minute, I'm struggling to find more over the Internet... I'll keep you updated if I succeed.
what is the video you're referring to at 6:14-ish?
We've made passing reference to this quite a few times in our videos but will be making a dedicated video that demonstrates, discusses, and advises on this in the near future. Cheers! -Ben
I did this with one Tom and it sounded great but the other toms were very flat thud sounding, so even though it’s a pain in the ass for this OCD guitar player to tune my drums properly, I’m going to find that pitch! Might be two years before the whole kits in tune😂
It's possible that what you're describing had more to do with the relationship between the batter and reso heads than the seating and clearing of a single head. The more you experiment and determine what methods yield your preferred sound(s), the easier it becomes. Best of luck! -Ben
Sounds Like A Drum thanks for the advice really dig your show! I’m just too picky with how things sound lol
Try minor thirds. Batter three semitone lower than the resonant.
Den Svarte Metallkatten thanks 🙏 I try to figure that out
@@warrenoids This works well for us on rack toms and we tend to prefer a tighter interval for floor toms. Still, it's important to tune, listen, assess, tweak and the listen to the change. This is the best way to get to know how your drums can sound and are affected by different batter v. reso tunings. Cheers! -Ben
Would it be possible to balance the playing volume to the speaking volume in future vids? Even using headphones the playing segments are 3-6db less in gain. Hard to hear the subtlety of the instrument with the volume shift. Enjoying the detailed content! 👌
Ah yes, I had a feeling this would come up. Believe it or not, everything is balanced in volume. Since we don't compress the drum sounds, the attack (particularly with this tuning captured off-axis for the demonstration) is quite loud and the transient peaks at the same volume level. This is just something that's inherent with an honest sonic representation and lowering the volume of the narrative would bring it down quite a bit lower than most other videos. Hopefully adjusting the volume between the sections didn't prevent you from enjoying the video and gaining some insight. Cheers! -Ben
Anyone else thinking about Derek Roddy's snare tuning description? "Finger tight"
Got a link to that reference?
@@SoundsLikeADrum Might just be someone's false memory that was written on Pearldrummersforum. The tuning of the toms at least on "Derek Roddy - Controlling Speed (FULL DRUM LESSON)" is definitely finger tight.
Hmmm, just looked up the video. Very....interesting drum tones. Kind of what you'd expect in a small room with the drums tuned in a way that isn't meant to activate the shell and/or project and not close-mic'd.
@@SoundsLikeADrum It might have been a third party tuning the shells.
Can tuning by notes be situational? I have an ear for tuning and I’ve always been into more tuning. I like my toms to be tuned correlating to A natural.
Absolutely! Really, there are no rules as to what you tune to as long as the sound fits the context (and, of course, that's entirely subjective). We did an episode on tuning drums to specific pitches here: czcams.com/video/GWbyUnEULME/video.html
Sounds Like A Drum thanks! I’ll go ahead and watch it! You guys are awesome
This is similar to the gene hoglan method... get it as high as you can with pressure on the rim and your hands. No drum key.
I like how that sounds. Nice short decay, punchy and low.
Good stuff! Didn't know that was Gene's preferred tuning approach. Is there somewhere online where he references this? Is that just for the batter heads? -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Gene Hoglan was on drumeo for a couple of episodes...
czcams.com/video/FArpzF1Sn68/video.html
A little over 31 minutes in, he starts talking about drum tuning.
He doesn't mention if he does it on batters only or both sides. I do it for both personally and it sounds pretty close to his toms. Short sustain, punchy, etc, so I assume he does it for both.
can you make a video about heating a dead drumhead back to life with a hair dryer?
We've filmed some elements of this as part of a "myth busting" feature and will gather up some more demonstrations to include in the near future. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum Thanks Ben! Cheers!
I think this method is meant to be used in a pinch; like if you’re having to quickly tune a back line kit in a noisy environment.
Some people use it that way but we’ve heard quite a few claims to this being their default way of always tuning drums.
Can i get more cowbell?
I've not had much success with this method. My drums always sound muddy and dead, maybe it's my preference for higher tunings in rock settings ala Copeland. I feel like if your finger is not absolutely 100% deal center then you can not possibly tune evenly just by tuning out the wrinkles. It goes back to your prior video talking about heads not being seated center. Not bashing you guys, the video, or the topic, just sharing my personal experiences with this method.
We totally hear you and that's one of the reasons why don't really employ this method ourselves (with the occasional exception of the bass drum for low tuning in rock-oriented musical contexts). We wanted to cover it though because we've had more than a few inquiries. Cheers! -Ben
OKAY, so I've done this tuning a couple of times, and for it to work in most musical situations, the HEAD has got to be at least a G14, G1's and other Evans single ply heads do not work very well at this tuning, 2nd, for toms I've found you want to go pretty low, on the bottom head, what I call L. R. P. meaning lowest resonating pitch, and then for snares, usually the complete opposite.
I thought a wrinkle meant the head was dead it was time to replace.
Wouldn't be tuning just above a wrinkle ruin the head in the long run? Because you have to hit harder to get the tone out of the head
Hey! It for sure has in my experience, but more because the head just absorbs all of the energy of the strike at such a low tension - that's where all that attack comes from when you tune like this. I've seen tom heads totally smoked in a day from tuning like this and only playing medium-hard. Stick type and tip affect that too... - Cody
I'm sorry, but "JAW" is already taken by the late, great John Anthony West.
Finger tighten, then 1/4 all the way around...*tap tap tap* followed by 1/8 turn all around... no need to over complicate things peeps.
what in the devil? that's not how you tune a cowbell
i completely hate tuning drums. ive played for years and have never been able to do it, absolute minefield. every once in a while i watch a video where they say its really simple and not to overthink it. i do this, they sound crap - i get annoyed and pay my old drum teacher to tune them and the cycle starts again. feels so pathetic that i still cant make them sound good but i just dont get it, the sound of an isolated drum is so alien from when youre actually playing them
Less cowbell please!
😂
Great page, useless tuning...lol