Thanks for sharing your experience and sorry the X-Mid didn't end up working as you hoped. I'll provide some comments and explanation for a few of the topics you raise. SHORT GUYLINES The corner guylines are short to save weight and avoid tangles but this is something that is easy to swap if you prefer longer lines. We include extra cord with the tent and recommend changing to longer lines if you would like to be able to tie to rocks. Replacement cords can be quickly route through the tensioners so it only takes a couple minutes to have the cords however you like them. I personally prefer shorter lines and then I add extensions with a girth hitch if I want to tie to rocks, but for 2024 I did make the stock lines longer for more adjustability. PITCHING With regard to the pitching process, I respectfully don't think that the X-Mid demands a higher degree of perfection than other tents. The ease of pitching this tent is one of the main reasons why people like it. The core pitch is just staking out a rectangle and then as long as it's reasonably close to square and the poles are extended firmly it's going to be pretty good. Other tents like the Duplex have more stakes and require more estimating of distances and less intuitive angles. It looks like you quickly get a nice pitch in this video so maybe the issue is moreso the size (discussed below) rather than the actual pitch method. For the video, a lot of the 18 minute length is optional extras and variations, as it covers the basic pitch in just 30 seconds. I do suggest putting in the stakes halfway in case you need to move them, but that is a good tip for any tent and not intended as an admission that getting the stakes in the right spot is unusually hard. Anyways, I'm hardly neutral but I think most people find the X-Mid simpler to pitch than the Duplex since it does pitch with fewer stake and has a simpler base shape. SIZE The X-Mid Pro 2 is a larger tent for sure but the actual footprint isn't that different (only 13% by area) and you can collapse the vestibules to make both tents just the 46" x 90" floor area. I have a video on how to do that and I think that would have resolved your issues with fitting into small sites on the PCT. I think the main reason why the X-Mid can feel harder to fit into small sites is because the lower cut fly that won't float over obstacles as well as the Duplex (which has that large gap). This is a tradeoff where the low cut fly offers more protection from drafts and splatter while the high cut fly floats over objects/uneven ground easier. A common complaint with the Duplex is that it is very drafty which the X-Mid much improves, but yes there are times where the high cut fly is nice. I think there is quite a bit of personal preference here, where some people value the high cut fly and others value the added protection of more coverage. For a solo thruhiker, I think our X-Mid Pro 1 is often the better tent. It's super spacious for a 1P tent with more interior volume than the Altaplex, yet fits into quite small sites. It's also easier to get flat terrain because you need a smaller spot. MAGNETS AND STRUTS I appreciate the feedback about the magnets. They were weaker in 2022 so I updated them for 2023. It looks like you have a 2023 tent so I'm surprised you didn't have good results. They should hold firmly if the door is rolled up reasonable well, but maybe the magnets lost magnetism. For 2024 I have added an additional magnet toggle which is normally used for the inner door but can also be used to double up the fly door to make it very secure. For the struts, I'm not quite sure what happened at that one corner to cause the damage but it's not a normal occurrence. We've only got 1 or 2 reports ever of that type of thing, so perhaps there is something we can make stronger here but it's not normally a failure point in the tent. We are happy to repair this for you under warranty. Thanks for trying our tents, Dan
Hey Dan, thanks for weighing in here, I never doubted that you would find this video and take the time to craft an articulate, thoughtful response. Just want to say for those reading, as much as the XMid Pro 2 didn't work for me, I must say that Dan Durston is a class-act and a solid dude. I've found his customer support and expertise to be stellar. For the record, I have also have fantastic luck with ZPacks customer service and expertise, but I just wanted to get on record with this. Dan-- I appreciate your dedication to your product and involvement in its reputation after sale. You say that the ease of pitch is one of the main reasons people like this tent. For those I've met who love the tent (exactly 1/5 of the Xmid Pro 2 users I chatted with at length on the PCT), I concur with your observation, however you must by now be aware that there is also a sizable number of folks (including the other 4/5 XMid Pro 2 users I chatted with at length on the PCT) who can't get over their experiences of finding the pitch very difficult. Perhaps this is user error, or design error, or (most likely in my opinion) some sliding-scale combination of both, but you must at a minimum be aware of this issue. I can't expect you, nor am I asking you, to point out any flaws in your product, I'm just amazed if somehow these complaints how gone unnoticed, given that they are widespread among those I've met on trail and among those even who have commented on this video. I wish there was a way to survey everyone who has purchased this tent, but I acknowledge that that would be very difficult to do and would involve too many variables in experience to yield a meaningful conclusion. Anyways, I too am very sorry that this tent didn't work out for me. This video is not a knock on those who love it, it's not a declaration that it's a "bad" tent, it is my honest, thoughtful, considered, and measured recounting of why I switched back to the Duplex and why I would recommend the Duplex over the Xmid Pro 2 for a thru-hike of the "Big 3." Wish you all the best of luck, Dan, and I look forward to checking out more of your products in the future!
@@travelinbeat Thanks for the kind words. I do genuinely appreciate hearing your experience as constructive criticism is always helpful and in everyone's best interest in the long term. I am a bit surprised about people finding the pitch challenging because we really don't hear that very much other than comments about the footprint size. For example, the X-Mid was the highest rated 1P shelter on the PCT last year in the Halfway Anywhere survey for user satisfaction, which I don't think you'd get if a lot of people were having a hard time pitching it. With that said, I do agree the DCF versions are going to be less forgiving due to the non-stretch material. I personally don't find them too hard but yes the silpoly versions are easier. Part of the different outcomes might be related to different backgrounds. When I hiked the PCT in 2014 I used a tarptent stratospire which had an even larger footprint than the X-Mid 2 and was more difficult to pitch due to the odd shape and strut corners which had no flexibility in their height or position. So coming from that the X-Mid seems easy, whereas for someone who's used to the Duplex with high cut fly and the doors rolled back so it can pitch in just the floor area, I can see how it would be harder. All the best, Dan
I love my XMid Pro1 but I have to agree with pitching issue - it's super easy with flat and plentiful spot but challenging with any sort of slope or obstacle. I do orient bathtab floor rather than Fly for easier pitching. I do appreciate possibility of lower pitcher as I hate backsplash on many other tents (eg Notch). I'll probably go with Tarptent Rainbow Li next
Thanks to you both. I'm planning a thru-hike March 2024 and I had pretty much decided on the Durston X-Mid1. After reading all of these comments, I'm going with the X-Mid 1. The polyester version.
Forgot about the Duplex 'flying-floor' in my rebuttal. That was annoying too. Love, love, love your tent sir. It's the greatest hiking-gear advancement in decades.
So much appreciated your video, and all of the comments. I have exclusively used the Zpacks Duplex and Triplex for several years and have mostly loved them, but struggled not having a wet footbox and/or head since I am 6'2". The other serious issue with the zpacks tents is how easily rain/dew runnoff pours in if you are on any slight incline, and the floor/tub wall gets pushed out past the outer ceiling edge. I have modified both tents with pole cup extenders (using UL poles instead of a stick) and guylines to add vertical space at the ends of the tent, but still struggle to keep the water out if I am not pitched on perfectly flat, level ground. To have the perfect zpacks duplex or triplex pitch, you must ALSO have perfect level ground to avoid any of these issues. That said I have been in the most incredible weather with extreme wind coming from all directions, rain, sleet, hail, SNOW (at times during the same storm event) and have been amazed and grateful how these tents have literally saved my life from exposure..even though water was dripping on my head from inside condensation haha! I concluded the next "upgrade" would be the Duplex XL, or the HMG Ultamid, but have been put out at the cost and the additional weight of the Ultamid (although I'll probably buy it anyway - gear junkie!), and not forgetting the challenges of the duplex/triplex needing perfectly level ground to keep the water from accidentally pouring in. Then I learned of the X-Mid. Have not pulled the trigger on it yet (need a bit more $$ still), but am fascinated on its design and headroom and just needing 4 stakes to get it pitched (besides the doors)! The additional vertical space for the head and foot space looks like a dream come true! PLUS it weighs LESS than the Duplex XL. This video and comments have convinced me to definitely purchase the X-Mid Pro2. From all I have have seen (review wise), and from what I personally know from exclusive use of the Triplex and Duplex, the main pain could just be those magnetic straps for the vestibule and screen doors, and like a previous commenter has said: it is half the fun to work/play/mod the gear! As an Entrepreneur myself I am also very pleased to support Dan (as I have with Joe and Zpacks). Free Enterprise Rocks! I live in the Intermountain West where my backpacking trips go deep and high in the wilderness and I normally see no one for days, so footprint size is rarely a problem. Those issues you mentioned of finding enough real estate on the PCT sounds like a zoo to me, imo.
Hey Craig thanks so much for your comment! I can definitely understand how the Duplex could present issues given your height (for the record I am 5'11"). I'll say I have a Triple Crowner+ friend who is a a few inches taller and has had good luck with his DupleXL, but I won't speak too much on the grounds of hearsay-- for more you can check out his channel, @feralhikes8898 . Personally I have had good luck with the tent (standard Duplex) on non-level ground even in inclimate weather, but typically in those conditions I will pitch it lower than the standard 120cm height. Further, I typically sleep with an 1/8" foam mat under my inflatable pad, which prevents me and my sleeping pad from sliding around on the floor (which results in protruding the bathtub beyond the ceiling, thus funneling rain into the bathtub per your description). I certainly don't intend this video to be a categorical and universal "diss" of the XMid Pro 2. In this video I sought only to explain my experience with the tent, compare it to my experiences with the Duplex, and present why I feel that the Duplex is a far superior tent for the hiking I have done. Issues such as user height, terrain, weather, and trail traffic will absolutely affect the calculus of determining which of these two tents will be the appropriate choice. I'd like to leave you with a quick clip from a recent Q&A in which I show off a recent mod to my Duplex which, sadly, I remain yet to have tested. Perhaps this sort of mod would be a consideration should you choose to go DupleXL in the future. czcams.com/video/BcMHdl6CMiI/video.htmlm36s
It is harder to find a spot to pitch the 2P Durston, so I can understand why you switched, but the Durston is clearly more weatherproof than the Duplex. Durston has fixed the magnets problem with stronger magnets. I switched out the guy lines with longer ones so I can either pitch it right down on the ground, or tie off to anything handy. The video clip of Dixie in a Duplex in Iceland during a wind storm shows the folly of toggles instead of zippers for the fly. Admittedly I have X-Mid 1P, so it’s easier to find a spot to set up. Of all the tents I’ve owned since I started backpacking in 1974, the Durston is the most intelligent, well thought out tent I’ve owned.
Thanks for chiming in, it's good to hear your experience!! My buddy, Rabbit has a Durston XMid 1 as well and didn't seem to have quite as pronounced challenges as I did with the Pro 2. I think part of this came from the slight stretch of his tents material vs. the rigidity of my tent's Dyneema. I don't deny that the weather worthiness of the Durston is better than the Duplex, I just think that in my experience, the greater weather worthiness is neither pronounced nor necessary enough to offset / outweigh the troubles it posed me over 1,200mi. If I knew I was going out in weather, with established / large / uncrowded campsites, and with level earth, and without dust, I would chose the Durston. For a thru-hike, when I strive for as "silver-bullet-y" a tent as I can get for: the conditions I'm most likely to encounter (and still plenty safe enough for some margin beyond that point), the ease of pitch, the versatility, and the simplicity of design, I would definitely prefer the Duplex. This is not at all me saying I'm right and you're wrong-- I completely believe that what's good for one may not be good for all (or *not good for that matter). Regarding Dixie's experience, I don't know why she brought a Duplex to an environment wherein damaging gusts are standard protocol. I don't think I would want either of these tents out there (though to your point, if I had to choose, I might choose the Durston).
@kimpriessloft371 I'll admit that I did not experiment with the skinny pitch very much. I did look into it somewhat, but again just found myself wondering why I would carry this tent over my other one if this one routinely required a modified pitch. There is no single complaint I have about the Durston that own its own would have lead me to switch back to my Duplex-- it was the multiple adaptations it required, and the specificity of steps required to get it right. In rewatching this video, I also notice now that I didn't even mention how an iff-level surface also poses its own threat to a perfect pitch.
I found a better way to pitch the 2P than Dan's recommendations. With Dan's method, you lay the fly first but then its a crap shoot if the inner will lay over roots or rocks in a tight spot, just like you found. Instead, I first lay down a polycro footprint cut to size of the floor exactly where I want the inner to lie, avoiding the worst roots and rocks. Then I lay the fly on top. The key is to first stake out the fly corner that connects close to the inner (not the vestibule corner), right next to the footprint corner. Next, stake down the opposite end of that same short side because you just line the fly up parallel with the footprint. Then move to the opposite side and peg the next two stakes down so the fly is in a rectangle. In tight spots with lots of roots and rocks, it would take me up to 30 mins before, readjusting the stakes several times. Now, 10 minutes tops. I also switched to longer dynema core guylines, and skinny pitch when I need to. There's no way I would have been able to pitch in all my sites with the stock guylines. Its been a great tent for me now.
Awesome insight, thanks!! I will confess that I'd moved on from the XMid at this point, but I think your method makes sense and I hope that this helps others! I know Dan is lurking around here someplace, I'm interested to hear his thoughts on your approach, too
Thank you so much for the thorough review! You haven't turned me off my plan of getting an X-Mid 2 (the silpoly though), but you have certainly given me things to consider. I appreciated how unbiased your evaluation of the tents seemed.
Awesome, thank you so much for your comment, I'm thrilled that this video has helped you! I should say that I hiked through the Sierra with a hiker, Rabbit, who had a silpoly Durston and it certainly seemed that his tent went up way easier than mine ever did. He was a big fan of his tent, hopefully you will have a similar experience with yours!
I tented near you during that huge windstorm near Tehachapi and no tent was adequate in that storm !! I was giving the Durston some consideration as well as the Z-Packs and your video really helps. Very honest and informative. I enjoy your professionalism with your explanation and using the technical term "persnickety" Thanks !!
Haha, that's my inner English major leaking out there!! 😆 So good to hear from you!!! Man what a hard night that was, I'm so glad yo hear from someone who was there!! How'd the rest of your trail go??
I continued this fall to Echo Lake and so have now completed close to 1,100 miles. I'm planning to continue next year with another section to the Oregon border and then I plan to watch your videos to help me plan that trip and am really looking forward to it !! Also looking forward to you future videos and hiking adventures. Take care. @@travelinbeat
Thanks, Paulie and Bill!! Just putting the finishing touches on what will be a 5 part (!!) Q&A series, hoping to post Part 1 in the next week and roll out the next 4 at a pace of one per week thereafter
I considered stretching out the guylines but it also kind of looks like it might mess up the line from the corner of the Dyneema. I'm not sure whether this would be a consequential modification structurally, but it worried me enough that I didn't experiment with it. Dan does include extra cordage and I carried that cordage the whole trail
Thanks for sharing your personal experience with these tents. After all the comments and questions about the new Durstan tent on some of the hiking FB groups, I was thinking, Beat should make a video about how it worked/didn’t work for you. I’m not interested in using single wall tents, but it’s still interesting to learn about.
Thanks, Smiles, glad this helped! I've known that this video needed to be made ever since I decided to make the switch. Glad with how it came out, but a little bummed that I mentioned that I read and respond to every comment-- I underestimated the wrath of the Legion of Durston!!
5:10 Can you clarify on the size difference? Manufacturer website states that the Duplex is 93" x 100" and Xmid 2 pro is 80" x 100". So the outer dimensions of the Duplex are larger...
Thanks for this. I have read the specs, and according to Mr. Durston's comment, (posted some 10hr after yours) his tent is 13% larger. 13% isn't a huge difference, I'll confess. Dan also comments that he suspects that the reason so many people (I am FAR from unique in this assessment) feel his tent is so much larger is because it pitches so much closer to the ground, and therefore allows less floatation over obstacles. I commend this observation and appreciate his explaining it. I don't explicitly discuss this in this video, and only tangentially suggest it, but I almost always pitch the Duplex as it is at the early part of the video-- with all four of the vestibule flaps pinned up. I suspect that in this configuration, the footprint disparity would be significantly more pronounced. I tend to care far less about the specifications listed on the websites than on my personal experience. Anyone interested in these or any other tents can (and should) comb through manufacturer specifications. I would argue that they should also consider the lived experience of those who have used the product, and that is where this video comes in. When I was trekking through the record snows of the Sierra on the PCT this year I routinely needed to shovel out a spot for camp. At this point I was still using the XMid. I found that my shorthand for the space required to pitch was that I needed to shovel out a spot twice as big as I would need to pitch my Duplex. I understand that this thought will drive people crazy, since the specs are what they are, and I decided not to include this assessment in the video only because I feared the wrath it would incur. I mention it now only to explain how significant the space requirement "feels," irrespective of the specs. Until you've hiked 8mi in 13hr then had to shovel out a tentsite, I can't expect this assessment to make much sense, but it was a formative and recurrent experience which made an indelible mark on my perception of the space this tent requires. I mean not to suggest that the Xmid Pro 2 requires twice as much space as the Duplex, I mean only to explain that with my experience being what it was with the Duplex (some 5000mi or so), I had a very good eye for what its space requirements were given its flexibility in pitching. I had far less experience with the Xmid Pro 2, but with its far less flexible design / pitching requirements, I shorthanded that I needed to dig out twice as much space for that tent as I would have required for my Duplex.
The X-Mid Pro 2 is a rectangle that is 80" x 100". The Duplex has a width and length that are similar or greater at 93" x 100" but it is a hexagon shape so the corners are trimmed off compared to a rectangle. This gives the Duplex 13% less area overall. Which actually fits better will depend on the specifics of the site. On a rectangular platform the X-Mid will fit better because it can fit onto a smaller platform due to the reduced width, whereas with a round site the Duplex will fit better with it's more rounded (hexagon) shape. If I trimmed back the X-Mid fly it could be smaller and float more over uneven terrain, but the X-Mid is designed more for tough weather conditions where the full coverage fly is valuable for blocking drafts and splatter. So it is a trade off with different values. I personally prefer the greater protection of a low cut fly but in fair weather a higher fly is nice. I personally don't find a big issue with pitching a low cut fly because if the site is an issue I'll just collapse one or both vestibules and then both tents pitch about the same size (just the floor).
I'm not gonna write an essay like Dan did, but I also used the X-Mid on the PCT this year (Pro 1) and I'll agree that the Pro 2 is way too big for the PCT and I would not have enjoyed finding tent spots that could fit it, but otherwise I found none of your complaints an issue for me. I don't pitch it the way Dan instructs, and my method fixes all your issues and works first time every time. I came up with it on my second or third pitch before starting the trail. I also found the vents made a *huge* difference, as evidenced from the nights where I forgot to deploy the vents compared to the nights where I did. I do find the zippers to be too tight and not smooth, and it's a constant worry.
Yes I hiked through the Sierra with Rabbit, who carried an X-Mid 1 (non-DCF) and he seemed to have much better luck finding sites and getting his tent pitched up nicely. I'm very glad to hear that you have had success with your tent and appreciate you sharing your experience for other folks who may be thumbing through these comments prior to committing to a purchase!
well, I have the Durston X Mid 1 p and it is awesome.. both set-up and space. Now I do not have the pro and the X mid has a removable liner which to me is perfect for me
Yes I hiked several hundred miles with a guy who had the non-Dyneema XMid 1 and he had a way easier time with his than I did with mine (Xmid Pro 2). I think the slight stretch in the non-Pro models does a lot of good, plus the obvious size difference.
disagree with your ranking as it seems inclimate weather isn't that much of a concern for you. for me it's really important. Also, you used a XMid pro 2. did you look at the Pro 1? because it's not too large to pitch in smaller areas.
I understand that different weather may alter the calculus on this tent's virtues and vices. My experience is pretty limited to the first 1,200 of the PCT, with recent thru-hikes of the CDT and AT in the Duplex. For those trails, in "usual" hiking months, I would have preferred my Duplex. Where / what is the weather you've encountered in this tent? What's your usage like? I'd love to hear more about your experience!
It's crazy that some people are jumping on you.. I think having the feedback of someone who used it for 1200 miles on the trail is WAYY more valid than the tens of people that just pitched it in their flat garden before making a "review". Thx
Thanks very much for sharing this. I too think it's been a little crazy that folks are getting so personal and ravenous. I am very proud of how I stayed objective and measured throughout this review, but some folks just seem incapable of disagreeing respectfully. Can't say I didn't expect some degree of irresponsible dissent, but I'd be lying if I told you that I haven't been surprised by the breadth of it. I really appreciate you observing and commenting on it, I hope you've found this video helpful!
Love my X-Mid Pro 1. I’m certainly not an expert at pitching any tent, but I found the Durston easy to pitch. Roomy and comfortable, too. BTW, I’m a 60+ female.
That's awesome to hear, I'm glad that your tent works for you!! I'm curious-- what type of surfaces do you usually pitch it on? Is it dispersed backcountry rocky rooty level established sandy grassy etc? I do think it would be a far better tent for camping on large, established, level campsites (large and level and grassy and open in Durston's How to Pitch video)
The thing that I don't get is, when loogking at the measurements on the manufacurers websites, the xmid should be slightly smaller ... at least when the vestibules are staked out on both ... strange
I have read the specs, and according to Mr. Durston's comment, his tent is 13% larger. 13% isn't a huge difference, I'll confess. Dan also comments that he suspects that the reason so many people (I am FAR from unique in this assessment) feel his tent is so much larger is because it pitches so much closer to the ground, and therefore allows less floatation over obstacles. I commend this observation and appreciate his explaining it. I don't explicitly discuss this in this video, and only tangentially suggest it, but I almost always pitch the Duplex as it is at the early part of the video-- with all four of the vestibule flaps pinned up. I suspect that in this configuration, the footprint disparity would be significantly more pronounced. I care FAR less about the specifications listed on the websites than on my personal experience. Anyone interested in these or any other tents can (and should) comb through manufacturer specifications. I would argue that they should also consider the lived experience of those who have used the product, and that is where this video comes in. When I was trekking through the record snows of the Sierra on the PCT this year I routinely needed to shovel out a spot for camp. At this point I was still using the XMid. I found that my shorthand for the space required to pitch was that I needed to shovel out a spot twice as big as I would need to pitch my Duplex. I understand that this thought will drive people crazy, since the specs are what they are, and I decided not to include this assessment in the video only because I fear the wrath it would incur. I mention it now only to explain how significant the space requirement "feels," irrespective of the specs. Until you've hiked 8mi in 13hr then had to shovel out a tentsite, I can't expect this assessment to make much sense, but it was a formative and recurrent experience which made an indelible mark on my perception of the space this tent requires. @kimpiessloft371 please chill. I welcome divergent opinions and respectful discourse, but I create and post these videos around the schedules and interests of the rest of my life. I look forward to responding to people, but will, from time to time, not be able to do so immediately.
@@travelinbeat sorry, i didn't mean to call your judgment into question at all, I actually find your subjective perspective and comparison very useful and just by looking at your video it seems that the xmid has a bigger footprint (I also saw the issues regarding space when you were in the sierras)... i just find the mesurements strange as they don't seem to line up with the lived experiance and the measurements are what most people would go by when they compare tents (at least I can't afford to buy multiple tents and compare them side by side myself)
I used a Duplex on the AT and did half the PCT in '22 with the Xmid Pro 2 which I bought as a replacement. While I still like the Xmid for when I am sharing a tent, I have let go of the idea of using it just by myself. I could deal with all the drawbacks you rightfully raised...the short guy lines never bothered me but I wish they glided better through the line locs. Setting it up wasn't too bad. Also never experienced an issue with a magnet releasing which could be horrible because imagine you were cooking in the vestibule🙃. To me the deal breaker was the footprint size. When I hiked the PCT many hikers flipped up to WA due to fires further south and the trail got crowded. And there aren't that many camp sites in WA and most of them have one, maybe two spots that can fit the Xmid. So while I never had to hike on due to lack of space, it was something that was constantly on my mind and had me rush to get to camp if I knew it was a smaller camp site. I remember watching your Sierra videos knowing you had to dig out room for the tent and cringing at the idea you had to do that with this tent after such a exhausting hiking day... I still think the Xmid is a very well designed shelter and the perceived roominess of the tent is so much superior to the Duplex where my head is very close to the sloping fabric of the DCF. And I have had several instances where the foot end of my quilt got drenched from touching the wall which was wet from condensation. So to me the Xmid Pro 1 was the best of both worlds and I have been very happy with it on the Tour du Mont Blanc. I still need some more nights to get a definite verdict on it though. The slight weight drop is definitely appreciated.🤩 Thanks for the video Beat!✌ -Spinewalker
Thanks for watching and for your thoughtful comment! Definitely the footprint is among the biggest drawbacks for me, that and the process of pitching it. I suspect that the Xmid 1 (non-"Pro" / non-DCF) version would have been a much better decision for me than the Pro 2, but for now I'm just happy to be back in the arms of the one I love, the Duplex :)
Love my XMid 2P. It’s one of the easiest tents I’ve set up, I mean, I thought it was a “No Brainer” to change out those guy lines for longer ones before taking it out though 😂 I got a couple extra magnet clips that weigh nothing for the rolled up doors, so there’s no problem with that anymore either. The only issue I may have sometimes is the size of the pitch, but I’m almost 6’4 so I needed the space, I can always skinny pitch if need be.
Thanks for watching and commenting! Yeah I could see how this tent would be ideal for you given your height. Regarding switching out the guylines, I frequently considered it but feared doing so may adversely affect its angles (sounds like plenty of other folks have had success with longer lines however). Regarding adding magnets, for one I'd say nothing and nothing alone weighs nothing, and beyond that I just feel that a $600+ tent shouldn't require any modifications to function as designed, but maybe I'm just stubborn or cheap that way. I'm glad the tent works for you though, certainly everyone will have a different take on it!
I am looking at Hillebergs right now-- I think the Akto specifically. Seems very weather worthy and I know my Dutch friend, Martin from the CDT last year, LOVES his.
@kimpriessloft371 Yeah these are definitely downsides... I wouldn't have wanted an Akto for the trails I've done, buy I'm looking ahead at possible future hikes and most of the ones I'm considering may warrant something closer to 4-season durability.
I'm greatful for a review that isn't just a run of the mill positive stuff that everyone is espousing and copying. I really like X-mid. It's expensive though. I like that the poles not in the middle which is a deal breaker with the duplex for me. Also the direction of the bug net zippers are much better on Durston. X-mid 1 is smaller. I wonder what you'd think of that one.
Thanks for your positive comment! I am aware of the 1 person version but have not played with one. I will say I hikes through the Sierra with a guy who had the non-dyneema Durston 1P and he loved it. I think that having a material with a little more stretch to it would be a huge help in mitigating some of the issues I encountered and describe in this review
I get wind blowing rain into my Duplex and the Duplex collapses in wind if I don't set rocks on top of the stakes. It might take a learning curve to get a perfect pitch for the Durston, but I quickly realized you don't need a perfect pitch to obtain a strong pitch. I have never been able to get a perfect pitch on the Duplex. Customer service with Durston is superior to Zpacks and most other companies. I only wish the Pro 1 was slightly bigger as I don't need a 2P, Dan has already heard this from me. No company can please all people, I understand I'm in the minority on this. And no tent maker offers that, to my knowledge. P.S. no I didn't drink the purple Durston kool-aid. But I have experience with both and my preference is for the Xmid Pro2.
I appreciate you recounting your experience here, hopefully it helps others! I'll say I have not ever either of tents collapse in wind, but I expect our conditions aren't perfectly congruent. I also just wanted to say that I have had fantastic experiences with ZPack's customer service-- they have overnighted me components free of charge and even gave me a loaner-pack to finish the CDT when I had to return my pack to them for a repair. That said, Dan is also a great dude who stands behind his products, so I don't expect that that should be a concern for folks either. PS: Durston Kool-Aid is a fun concept to consider as I wade through responding to some of these comments!! What a hornet's nest I've swatted with this one!! Thanks for politely voicing your divergent opinion!
You address all of the things that I was thinking about when the XMid Pro was released and unfortunately you also confirmed them, even though the tent looks really good with its values on paper and perfectly constructed. Then I'll accept a little more weight for the sake of simplicity and stick with my TT Rainbow for the time being and look forward to switching to the Rainbow LI when it's available again in June =)
Thanks for your review. I currently have the Duplex that I used on the PCT. I have two big issues that are making me look at the xmid pro. One is the vertical space above the head & foot. The foot of my bag was always damp from condensation by hitting the tent roof. I even tried the stick trick on the guy line. I think the positioning of the offset poles with the xmid pro makes the end walls more vertical. Hopefully that solves my first issue. The second issue I'm having with the Duplex is the roof leaking at the ridge line. No matter how I tension the guy lines, the ridge forms a trough where rain pools and eventually drips through. I noticed it looked like you had tape along the ridge of your Duplex. Did you have the same problem?
Thanks for watching! So the space issue in the Duplex hasn't been a huge problem for me at 5'11", but totally I could see how it may cause issues for a taller person. I know my buddy, Feral is taller than me, and loves his DupleXL, but I won't speak to that too much as I've never used / owned / needed one. I am surprised to hear that the cantilever method isn't resolving your issue... who knows. I do expect that you would find the Xmid to provide more space on account of the steeper slope to the walls / ceiling, but be aware too that only half of the space in the head / foot will have more space, the other half will have less. It's a very strange / unintuitive / difficult to explain geometry that creates this phenomenon, and it likely wouldn't affect you too much if you're flying solo, but it may be worth keeping in mind. I'm very impressed that you noticed the tape on ridgeline! So I had not specifically experienced leaks on the ridgeline... between the CDT and PCT I contacted Zpacks to ask if they could apply extra seam tape / waterproofing to the locations they have found to present the most issues. I had already taken the tent on 2 full thru-hikes and wanted to get it "tuned-up," so Zpacks agreed, charged me $20 (more than fair imo), and applied more tape not just to the ridgeline but also to the corner points where the guylines attach. I have since also applied some dyneema tape to the tie-out point for where those cantilever guylines attach to the tent, as I had indeed observed some mild leaking at these points (no doubt the result of some 6,000mi of hiking / pitching). I'd love to hear back from you once you decide how you will proceed-- I'd be so interested to hear more of your experience if you feel like sharing once you have made your decisions / amassed sufficient experiences to judge. Best of luck with your process, please let me know if I can help with any further questions!
Thank you so much for your encouragement!! As I suggest multiple times, my experience isn't intrinsically indicative of how others will feel about either of these products, but I am very pleased with how comprehensively I was able to communicate exactly my sentiments, opinions, and experiences. I'm very pleased if this video has helped you, good luck with your tent shopping!!
I have the Zpacks Altaplex that has a relatively small footprint and it can be a challenge to find a good tent site at shelters on the AT with the Altaplex. So what you're saying about the Durston makes perfect sense@@travelinbeat
Thanks for this comment! I tried all sorts of rolling methods but never found something that felt super solid for me, but I'm glad if you've found that it works for you and hopefully your comment will help someone else out there!
Good question. I have no experience with the Duplex Zip, but two things would have me asking questions-- 1) I don't know what I really, really gain from a zipper in the Duplex, (it would still be drafty because of the "lift" from the bathtub to the roof, it would still require 2 hands to open/ close, and I worry that a zipper would just get "gummy"), and 2) In the Duplex I frequently pin together the doors, secure just the "headside" flap at the bullhorn toggle, and roll up the "footside" flap half way / to the toggle, then use a small binder clip to pin it up. This allows me to maintain rain worthiness in decently light rain, but not sacrifice all that ventilation. In the Durston, I've found this doesn't work as well with the zipper vs the toggle, and I would hate to lose that flexibility. Without having those insights explained, I don't know why I would chose it over the OG Duplex.
I've only seen images of the Duplex Zip, but I'd expect the zippers (as long as they are strong enough) to be a slight advantage in strong winds and there are extra vents at the top - most likely a slight advantage for ventilation. Of course, extra vents and zippers add complexity to the design...
Really appreciate the detailed perspective on this. I have a Duplex and migrated to the Pro2…great tent but I just couldn’t make friends with it (you nailed the points). As I approach my AT through hike attempt late 2024, I’m now carrying the HMG Mid1. I really like the tent so far. What I need to do is swap back to my Duplex and see how I feel.
I'm sorry to hear that you had a similar experience, even if I'm a little pleased to get confirmation here that I'm not alone! At '24, huh? Do we have each other's numbers? I'd love to keep in touch and see how our schedules line up once you hit SNP!
Sorry to hear you had a similar experience... I'm thrilled that some folks love it, it just didn't work for me at all. Sold me too fwiw, at like a $3-400 loss, no less... Meh...
You menion that the xmid is exponentially larger. And way, way, way larger. But, it is actually the opposite. Duplex is a larger footprint. Im confused.
Yes there are many comments to this affect. Dan claims his tent is 13% larger than the Duplex. I very very rarely ever pitch the Duplex with the vestibule unfurled, which I suspect makes my common assessment of its footprint even smaller. Please review my reply to previous comments for more insights if you want to hear more on this, and thank you for watching and commenting!
I don't need more insight. You claim the tent with the smaller footprint is "exponentially larger" It's quite simply wrong. We have VERY different definitions of "exponential" And "common assessment" is also wrong. I own both tents. @@travelinbeat
My apologies Scott, when you claimed to be confused, I took that to mean that you wanted insight which may dispel your confusion. It is not uncommon for people to comment on the Xmid Pro 2 feeling like it has a bigger footprint. My standard pitch for the Duplex is to have the vestibule flaps pinned up. With my standard pitch of the Duplex, it has exponentially smaller footprint that the XMid Pro 2 with the vestibule staked out. Hope this brevity is helpful!
Yes adding longer guylines was certainly an option, and indeed it may well have improved if not extinguished a few of my complaints. I had been concerned about whether changing their length would negatively impact the geometry, however it seems from other comments as well that many folks have had success with extending them. Thanks for weighing in!!
@@travelinbeatI'm not a triple crowner or nothing but I have lived out of a backpack for 7 years traveling and hiking around the country. Nice review though I like plp being critical but when it's something so simple to do yourself it's not really worth complaining about.
Wow that sounds like a huge bummer! How old is the tent? Have you reached out to Zpacks? Sounds like it may be too many to patch them all, but I really like the Dyneema tape they sell for patching over tenacious tape, etc
Thanks for the honest opinion, with the level of thru hike experience that you have, your feedback is really useful, I have good experience with traditional tents like the Hilleberg, Fjallraven etc, been looking for a lighter weight option for long distance hikes, I’ve read similar opinions in the hiking forums.
Thank you, Ray! I'm very pleased if this video helps / helped you! FYI I just purchased my first Hilleberg to better suit my future hiking ambitions-- looking forward to getting some miles in with my Akto soon!
How do you people afford to take time off work to do these big hikes , i REALLY want to do the AT but damn , the time i would have to take off would hurt
I have no experience with it so wouldn't feel terribly comfortable offer many thoughts, but I would question what problem is being solved by using a zipper. Again, if I am confining my use-case to the AT, CDT, PCT, I just don't think there's any really need for a zipper over the classic toggle closers of the traditional Duplex. Obviously there are uses beyond those trails, but in most other conditions which I am imagining (Iceland, Scotland, Alaska), I suspect a different style of tent altogether may be appropriate (ie: Hilleberg, etc)
I wonder if a sill poly duplex who I’d do well. It’s nice being able to get a really nice tent under $300 that’s why I got the X mid I love you do need a giant tent spot for it, but it’s a solid tent I do a lot of winter camping in snow storms and it’s amazing in snow
I hiked with a guy who had the "non-Pro" / silpoly version of the Xmid 1, he enjoyed his tent and had fewer / less severe issues than I encountered with the non-stretch / Dyneema version
Sewing on a toggle may resolve this single issue, yes. It's worth bearing in mind, however, that sewing dyneema, particularly dyneema which you're counting on to protect you from the elements, is not super straightforward*. Nor would I be particularly jazzed about spending $700 on a product whose design flaws require my ingenuity to resolve / rectify. Meanwhile, as I point out quite plainly at the end of this video, the magnetic holds are neither my primary complaint nor do they play a major role in my disinclination to recommend this tent for thru-hiking. * I don't mean to suggest that Sewing Dyneema is impossible or beyond my skillset, just that it would probably best be achieved in a more stable environment than a thru-hike.
Subscribed. Nice video, thanks :). Ive got a Durston xmid pro 2 somewhere in the post from Canada to England right now so I'm probably a bit late watching reviews hehe. Hoping to start my triple crown journey in the next few years once I have done all of the Camino de Santiago variations, so your vlogs will be really useful for me. Thanks again :)
Awesome, thanks, so glad you've found the channel!! Camino sounds lovely-- I'd love to hear back regarding your favorites once you feel qualified to make such an assessment!!
@@travelinbeat I’ve done quite a lot of them but there are many. All good for different reasons. I was chatting to some people that had just finished PCT recently and were chewing up the miles along the Camino del Norte and had to tell them they were doing it wrong in the same way I would be doing the PCT wrong if I wanted to take it slowly. Camino is a more like a tea house thru hike but has some magnificent scenery and history. There is no seasonal weather to get in front of so you can take your time and savour it, stop half way through the day and drink wine with the locals etc …no rush 😊 One of my favourites would be Camino Vadinience I think for mountains and lakes. I won’t put a link to it as this is your channel, but there is a playlist on YT of it if you are curious and want to give it a try some day. 😊 Can I ask a couple of quick questions which may already be on your channel (or might be an idea for a future vid). 1) knowing what you know, if you could go back in time, what order would you tell your past self to do the triple crown trails in? 2) Realistically how much does in cost over the 4 months in food resupply, a couple of replacement pairs of shoes and the occasional town burger / hostel? Thanks again 😊
@NickLivingLife awesome, yeah my thought for Camino is that hopefully someday I'll be able to convince my wife that it would be fun to do together-- thus far she has expressed a blistering aversion to months without a bed or toilet or shower, and who could blame her, but my understanding and your characterization lead me to believe that the Camino can be approached in a far more comfortable manner-- fewer miles per day, more (if not noghtly) town stops with meals and bathing, lighter pack, etc. Regarding your questions-- order of Triple Crown.... I think the AT is the least logistically challenging and the CDT is the most. The AT and PCT are both very social and populated, and the CDT the least. I think in order to give the best answer, I'd want to more clearly understand the experience level of the questioner. I am really happy with my order (AT, CDT, PCT), but there is certainly something to be said for trying to finish the 3C on Katahdin (northern terminus of the AT), as it remains probably the single most magical terminus of any of the trails, if not the most magical place altogether anywhere in the 8,000mi+. My buddy, 700, structured his 3C to end at Katahdin and I think that makes a ton of sense. It's worth considering though that no trail can compete with the PCT in terms of quality views, which is why I saved that one for last. I could see a PCT hiker becoming frustrated with the "green tunnel" of the AT, and it could become very difficult to remain motivated if you're not feeling it. Also the AT has plenty of water, so much so that it can be a challenge in and of itself (ie: 4 days and nights of non-stop rain), but all that water removes a significant planning factor which is endemic on the other 2 trails, thus making the hike simpler in terms of logistics. Speaking of "simpler," this too is a particularly nebulous adjective to use in this discussion, as the AT certainly has the most frequent and severe elevation shift of the three (918k' over 2194mi =avg: 418ft/mi, PCT is 824k' over 2650mi=avg: 311ft/mi, CDT is 917.6k' over 3100mi=avg: 295ft/mi), but the AT has a max elevation of 6,643ft (Clingmans Dome), which is literally about half as high as the high point on the other 2 trails (PCT Forester Pass at 13,153ft, CDT Grays Peaks at 14,278ft). Further, both the PCT and CDT tend to ramble along for days / weeks at sustained elevations comparable to the AT's singular highest point. All this to say, the AT is far steeper with far more climbs and descents, but the other two introduce elevation concerns into the equation in a way that the AT does not. Gosh what a ton to consider there!! Okay, question two: costs... I intentionally do not track costs, so I'm kinda the exact wrong person to ask. According to HalfwayAnywhere.com 's 2023 hiker survey, the averages look like this: AT: (no data), CDT: $8,897, PCT: $10,216. I would assume that the AT could be the cheapest as there is a preponderance of affordable accommodation and dining pretty much throughout the entire route. That said, there are almost far more frequent towns, with frequent restaurants and beers, etc, and thus far more opportunities to blow-up your budget. Golly, hope this helps!! I may refer you to my Q&A's from each trail-- AT Q&A took place half way through my hike, the CDT and PCT Q&A's appear at the end of my hike. Your can browse the playlists to track them down. Godspeed!!
@@travelinbeat what an awesome reply. Oodles of detail there. Thanks so much. If you do convince your lady to do a Camino in the future , anything you want to know mate…just ask. 😊😊. Thanks again for being so helpful. 😊
Great points. All my gear along with a 2019 Duplex was stolen (insurance remimbursed) and I'm in the process of replacing everything. I was considering the X-Mid but you've reminded me why I loved the Duplex and was almost sucked into the Durston hype. All the bells and whistles don't overcome the simplicity of the Duplex. It has less failure points, can be pitched blindfolded and oriented correctly for sleeping... all requiring less real estate than the X-Mid.
Dang man that's terrible to hear about your stolen gear-- what a nightmare!! I'm glad insurance took care of you. Yeah I really wanted to love the Durston, but despite my best efforts, I just found myself frustrated by it, and continually lamented not having just brought out my trusty Duplex.
Hey beat…Congrats on your 👑👑👑!! Was in and out on your last hike’s vids. Have been dealing with my wife’s health this year. Finally watched your last vid from the PCT last night, so it was ironic you posted this video today. Again, congrats…You are in rare company! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Mr Titan, thanks for checking in, I appreciate your congratulations!! Hope my videos have provided some intermittent reprieve when things get tough-- I'm very sorry to hear about your wife and I'll be sending good vibes your way.
Super helpful video. I’ve been so close to pulling the trigger on the Durston, but something always holds me back. I’m a simple guy, especially when it comes to camping, having to practice pitching knowing that I’ll have to do this when I’m tired or it’s raining (probably both) is not appealing to me. Take care
Thank you for this comment, Grant! Seems like there are indeed plenty of people who really love this tent, but I've yet to speak (either in person or online) with a thru-hiker who loves it. I'm sure there are some out there, but I have yet to interact with them. It seems to me this tent would be lovely on large, flat, established campsites.
I respect your opinion - you obviously have the experience to back it up. But I hiked about 600 miles on the AT using the X-mid 2 and it was a great tent. It is the first trekking pole tent I’ve ever used. The only issue I can relate to that you noted was the size of the footprint. It is larger than the Duplex but you have many more guidelines to trip over and position correctly with the Duplex, so I’m not so sure it is that big of a deal. In my experience, if you stake out the floor in a rectangle, you’re good to go. And the guidelines were fine - if you need longer guidelines, it’s not that hard to add length to them. And I’ll take a zipper over those clumsy loops anyway. The way you ended your video made it sound like the Duplex was undeniably much better than the X-mid. No comparison. Maybe since you are more familiar with the Duplex you tended to lean that way, but the feedback I get and read says that the X-mid is the better tent. Thanks for the review!
Thanks for watching and for your thoughtful comment, and congrats on biting off a big section of the AT! I too have read plenty of effusive reviews of the Xmid Pro 2, and honestly if folks are happy with their tent, that's all that matters. I am very pleased that you had success with it and love it, I would never suggest that one tent is universally "right" or "better" than other. In this video I give my opinion based on my experience, and I have to say, in my experience and to my taste, I prefer to Duplex. While I have read plenty of effusive reviews and have also read reports and encountered other hikers who are frustrated by different aspects of the Durston XMid Pro 2. I understood prior to publishing this video that I would face vitriol for my position, but I tried very hard to express that my opinion reflects only my experiences in the conditions I encountered. Given that, I prefer the Duplex, hands down. This isn't to say anyone else is wrong, I just wanted to explain my position. Thanks again for weighing in, I appreciate your perspective!
Very glad you love you tent! My preference and experience have lead me to conclude that the Duplex is far superior for thru-hiking the "Big Three" trails of the US, but again, I'm very pleased that your needs and preferences are met with the tent you own!
This pretty much reflects my experience - setting up this tent can be a real mission. That many people ‘boast’ about this tent, is meaningful. What these people do not seem to appreciate is that unless the pitch site is billiard table flat then the gap around the bottom can be a disaster in any sort of inclement weather.
I'd really like to see this tent with a higher bathtub, but not as extreme as the solid. In shoulder season below 40F, it can be a challenge to get the fly low enough to avoid splash in with a really hard rain, but still high enough to avoid strong condensation. A higher bathtub would allow a higher fly pitch, but I get why Dan did this because a higher fly pitch takes more experience to get the ridgeline and body panels to be crisp
Hi Chris. I'm not sure if you've checked out our new pitching video but for uneven terrain you can either: 1) Use the included cord to swap on longer lines so it floats higher off the ground. 2) Use the method shown at 8:00 in the pitching video to adjust for uneven terrain. Hope that helps, Dan
@@durstongear thank you, Dan. The pitching requirements are very specific. I’ve ended up several times in precarious situations where due to the nature of the terrain the ‘fly’ has ended up suspended some distance off the ground. The last straw for me was in August in the mountains. Trying to find a level pitch didn’t work. I ended up being caught in a summer storm with the weather / wind swinging around. Having 30 mph wind driving under the floating fly made for interesting time - the tent held together find but was like a balloon - and the rain pelted inside via the gap at the bottom. One of the issues on such uneven ground is the size of the footprint which is pretty massive. That’s great (for internal space) on level ground but as soon as you’re camping on ground that is uneven then it becomes an utter mission to pitch this tent. I’ve spent an hour trying to adjust the tent to resolve the issues whilst my friends have pitched their freestanding Hillebergs etc have put their tents up, cooked and eaten their meals in the dry whilst I’ve struggled to get my tent sorted. The problem is now solved. I sold the tent. It simply cannot work in the mountains / hills; when there are strong winds and very uneven ground. It does, however, work great when the ground is reasonably flat.
@@chrishamilton2527 Thanks for detailing your experience. The X-Mid design is similar to other mid style tents where you have a rectangular footprint with a low cut fly. Our new pitching guide shows how to adapt this for uneven ground (at 8:00). Mid style tents are popular in the mountains but I do agree a freestanding tent with a smaller footprint is going to be easier on very uneven ground.
Just wanted to pop in and thank Dan for his dedication to his product. I appreciate this back and forth and hope it helps folks in the future! @chrishamilton2527, I had a similar experience on the backside of Selden Pass in the Sierra, Day 70 on the PCT, when after 12hr of hiking through snow,and trying to set up camp at 10,500ft, we had a thunderstorm rolling in on us. As I frantically tried to get my tent up safely, I just kept encountering issues which prevent my doing so... I kept cursing myself for having left my Duplex at home, knowing that I could have pitched that in a tenth the time and been safe and dry way sooner. Luckily all ended well, but I pretty much resolved right there and then to make the switch as soon as possible. Once I felt that my safety was in jeopardy, I decided my Xmid experiment was over. I totally get that it is a good tent, and perfectly capable of keeping hikers safe, but whether its my fault or a fault of the design is of little consequence-- I wanted a tent I felt comfortable setting up, and the Xmid didn't meet that threshold.
Have almost never used more than 4-stakes on Durston, but am admittedly not a fan of extraneous stakes (and the door stakes are definitely optional). Seems like you're spinning the story right off the bat? Duplex can be pitched with no less than six-stakes, but the side walls will be in your face if they are skipped. Magnet was a little wimpy and Dan did put in a larger magnet in recent models. Anyone can add magnet-strength by Dyneema-taping another same-size neodymium-magnet over the existing magnet. Duplex will remain a chore without extensive mods. Footprint is a valid beef if one is tiny like yourself (ignoring guy-lines). If one is tall, they'll have to get DuplexL, with added stakes and fragility. (more...) Zippers are fragile? Then why not remove them from your mosquito-doors? Oh... because they aren't so fragile after all. Those Duplex doors are a nightmare if the wind shifts. First, they must be pitched to shed wind, making setup one extra thing to remember. Then, if wind shifts, the tent blows-up like a balloon along with rain, sleet and snow along with it. Duplex doors are a cluster- -f- mess. Durston doors hitting you in the head? C'mon man, you're just making stuff up now. And just for completeness, Durston's mesh repels most bugs without even zipping it up. Permethrin the mesh and just let them hang. Talk about fiddle-free... Those Durston doors are awesome. Durston vents: Some vents are better than no vents. Duplex has no vents at all, so why beef about small-vents? Regardless, Durston's doors can be partially or fully open (zippers) to increase crossflow. Duplex has no such option for partial door opening. As to "low-pitch." Durston may be pitched high (more than 8", if one so desires) or in intimate contact with the ground (e.g. in a snowstorm). Simply raise trekking-pole height on Durston. Couldn't be easier. "Stays poke through floor?" Never heard of it. Never experienced it. You didn't do it on purpose, did you? Back to "footprint" again? OK, look at Duplex guy-line stakeouts when considering footprint. Those count. Guy-lines are trip-hazards and one has to have clearance all around to accomplish them. Duplex apex-lines are 80" (just under 7-feet), sidewall guy-lines are 48" (4-feet) - now that's a footprint. Durston otoh, has virtually no guy-lines whatsoever. Recommended corner-length is 8" (stock come 16", adjusted to 8" ordinarily), but the stake and guy-line can (and usually are) flush to the ground and only 8" from the corner, for zero trip-hazard and no added "footprint" to accommodate guy-lines heading every which-way. If one has a beef with Durston guy line-length, add your own? This author swapped-out for reflective yellow corner-lines. "Weather-worthiness?" "Not gaining that much from Durston?" Got to be kidding. Durston held up in huge winds and this author didn't even bother to get up and guy out the apex lines. Durston tent is a tank in the wind. Otoh, the ten-stakes DuplexL required were pulling out all night long in much less wind. And when even one stake pulled out of DuplexL, tent was slapping one in the face until it was addressed. Sorry, your objections seem petty and capricious. Having owned both (DuplexL first), couldn't take the fragility of Duplex, the fiddly guy-lines, the ten-stakes (get to camp, it's time to eat and sleep, not struggle with tent-pegs and guy-lines half the night), the orientation of flappy doors, the short length (despite being XL, DuplexL bag foot-box and/or head wet many nights), the ridiculous half-moon mud-catching mesh doors, the falling-down everything on DuplexL. Sold it and was so happy when Durston came-out with his miracle-tent.
Cool, thanks, at least I can assume that we are speaking a similar language with respect to usage / experience. You suggest that I "spin the story" right off the bat-- please believe me when I say I would very much have preferred to love this tent. I spent $700 on it and sold it for $300. I would have preferred to love it. The magnets didn't work for me, if he fixed them, that's great. I used 6 stakes with my Durston, tend to use 7 on the Duplex. For this video I pitched both tents as I usually pitched them on my thru-hikes, and more, as I saw them pitched most of the time by other thru-hikers. I have made no extensive mods in my Duplex, historically, and have never found its pitch to be a nuisance. You call me "tiny--" not sure where there analysis comes from... I do not consider myself super tall, but I am 5'11", which officially puts me 1" taller than the average American non-hispanic (leave aside that my father is Hispanic, and I'm 4.5" taller than the average American hispanic). I certainly do not consider myself "tall," but in terms of averages, it is FAR more accurate to call me "tall" than "tiny." I have no idea why you felt it necessary to open your comment with what certainly feels like a strangely / toxically macho personal attack (albeit a demonstrably misguided and inaccurate one), but having corrected your assertion, I'll now leave it alone, and limit the scope of my response to the subject at hand. You point out my gripe with zippers, and it's fair to observe that I didn't expand too much on this for my video. Certainly the Duplex also uses zippers, but in a different application. If you have a gummed up / failed zipper on the Durston in a heavy rain, you're getting wet. If you have a broken zipper on a Duplex, you can stay dry. To my mind there is a huge difference in relying on a zipper for bug protection vs weather protection. I am amazed that you've never encountered a zipper failure on a piece of gear-- I am envious of your luck! Regarding wind / weather worthiness, I stand by my observations. Most nights on the "Big Three" trails in the USA are just not that windy, so it's just not that big a deal in my experience. If you want serious weather worthiness, get a Hilleberg (as I have done with an eye toward Iceland '25). Duplex does have a partial-open option-- it requires a binder clip / clothespin to tack up a vestibule flap half way (as it would on the Durston if you wanted to prevent superfluous flapping material). I've shown this method in other videos, not sure where off the top of my head. Honestly of the two tents, this half-closed method may even be more secure on a Duplex vs XMid Pro 2, as there is no risk of the opening expanding as it may with the zipper. Point is, Duplex absolutely DOES have an option for partial door opening to increase crossflow. Also worth noting here that if one were to pitch the Durston woth partially open fly doors, you'd be back to using an additional stake on each side for a total of 6 stakes. So if you're embarking on a 5 month hike and want to leave open this possibility, you're carrying at least 6 stakes for the Durston. The hanging doors are neat, I suppose, and you're right that they will repel bugs without zipping them shut (unlike the Duplex), but this is scarcely sufficient to overcome the multitude of other shortcomings in my experience. Further, perhaps I was just insanely lucky for the 6,000mi+ that I carried my Duplex, but I just never really found it to be a huge problem to have the rainbow mesh on the floor. "Why beef about small vents?," you ask? Because they are a marketing point for the Xmid Pro 2. They are marketed as a benefit and my experience cast doubt on the impact of that claimed benefit. I found that they had little to no perceptible effect. This is why I "beef." My little plastic(?) stay poked through the floor... why in the name of God would I have done that on purpose??? To even suggest that I would have WANTED to destroy the shelter I relied upon for safety is insane... Regarding my focus on footprint, it's a big deal. If the corners of the Durston are at drastically different elevations (like, 4"-6"), it can be difficult to pitch properly. The guylines on a Duplex can accommodate all kinds of wonky "heights" of earth with no ill effect. Regarding their risk as a trip hazard, I suppose you're right that the Durston has less risk of being tripped over (despite the stock line being black vs Zpack's stock hi-vis yellow), however the short lines preclude the flexibility of accommodating unlevel ground, which in my experience, is a far more prevalent challenge than the trip hazard. Toward the end of your comment you start mentioning that you've used 10 stakes for your DupleXL. I have literally *never* in well over 300nights and well over 6,000miles ever EVER used 10 stakes on my Duplex. I'm not calling you a liar at all, so don't get me wrong, I just want to get on-record for future readers that I have never used 10 stakes and frankly can't even think of 10 tie-out points for the Duplex. I mean, I totally get that you are happier with your Durston XMid Pro 2, and frankly I am happy for you. Perhaps your (yet undefined) height, or your exact usage, or your experiences in specific weather has made that tent better for you than your DupleXL. I am not trying to talk you out of loving your tent-- indeed I'm very happy that you have found a tent that you love. I happen to have very different experiences with the Duplex vs the Xmid Pro 2. We can chalk it up to use-case, or height, or personal preference, or any great number of things. I'm content to leave it at that. I've explained in the video what shortcomings I experienced and why I feel very strongly that I would recommend the Duplex over the Xmid Pro 2 for a thru-hike of the AT / PCT / CDT, and I stand by my observations / experiences / recommendations. I appreciate you sharing your difference of opinions, and thank you for allowing me to correct / respond to some of your points. Keep hiking, brother PS: capricious: "Characterized by caprice; apt to change opinions suddenly, or to deviate from one's purpose; unsteady; changeable; fickle; subject to change or irregularity." My opinion of the Duplex was formed after 300+ nights, from the deserts in the boothill of New Mexico, to the fridgid nights in mid-February in Georia, to the sweltering mid-Atlantic summers and 12,000ft elevations of Colorado. My opinion of the Durston was formed over the course of more than 50 nights in the tent ranging from the deserts of Southern California to the 13,000ft elevations and record snowfall of the High Sierras in 2023. My opinion of these pieces of equipment couldn't possibly be described as fickle or subject to change. My opinion is field-tested and tried and true. My opinion is just opinion, but it is assuredly NOT capricious. Your experience and opinion may differ, but I will not slander it as capricious, and certainly, I would appreciate it if you would spare me the same respect.
Dyneema tents are such an overhyped piece of gear... I feel sorry for people who never backpacked investing in such tents. In my almost 40 years of experience, im glad this trend never came to Scandinavia
I can only imagine how silly a Dyneema tent would be for the conditions I would expect in Scandinavia! In fairness, I remain a huge fan of my Dyneema Zpacks Duplex, but my experience has been in the US and I'm certain that I wouldn't even consider it for your neck of the woods! What do you use? I recently bought a Hilleberg Akto, but have not yet accrued much experience with it.
Great video. Very valid points. I stack rocks on my Duplex stakes in wind or hard ground all the time. Not being able to do that on the Xmid without risk of damage is a huge negative. Another point against the Xmid is its poor in side winds. The narrow peak causes any wind hitting the sides to collapse them. As for zippers-I’ve had my Duplex in 60mph gusts and never felt the need for zippers. The toggle held perfectly. Zippers are failure points.
Thanks for chiming in! Yeah I don't hate the Durston or think it's bad for everything, I just found it to be too much of a hassle too regularly. There are some enticing points to it, but for the most part I really value to simplicity and versatility of my Duplex. And man 60mph gusts is NUTS!! I'm sure that must have been BRUTAL!! 😭😱😫
@@travelinbeat I agree, Xmid has its merits and it’s great to see tent makers competing to make the best tent possible. Dan Durston and Henry Shires at Tarptent are really moving the industry in the right direction with their designs. no sleep was had those nights. 😂. But tent held up!
@@wolfeadventures Thanks for saying we're moving the industry in the right direction :) For rocks, we include a bundle of cord with the X-Mid Pro tents and recommend putting on longer lines if you want to tie off to rocks. It's quick to swap on longer lines. For side gusts, we do have side panel guyouts that help quite a bit.
Great to hear from you.Good review. A small tent footprint is critical for me. It allows a lot more campsite flexibility and minimizes energy expenditure looking for an adequate tent site. I am considering getting a Z-packs one person.
My buddy, Halfmile on the CDT had a zpacks 1p and loved it! I also know my buddy, Birdman from the AT hiked with a Duplex but planned on switching down to the 1p as well. I could switch down at my height, but the tent works for me so I'll just keep rockin' with it!
Good to hear from you Beat, excellent discussion on the two tents. I still feel due to the "mostly" mild weather on the west coast, April through September, that a tarp and bivy are a great way to go on the PCT, super ultralight, tiny in the pack, and either will fit anywhere. A bivy is a great option if you like to walk until dark, throw it down anywhere climb in and crash out (Mountain Laurel Designs superlight solo bivy). Personally I cant sleep in a floorless tarp in Socal....rattle snakes...the combo works great for those that cant deal with a rattle snake visiting in the night. Look forward to additional vidoes.
Yes I can see that being a very rational decision through there. My inner east-coast hiker ways just love a tent!!I must say though, I am jealous of the views had by those who go without
I have the x mid pro 2 and don’t have any of the issues you have. Pitching is easy magnets are fine in fact they’re great. I found most of your negative comment quite petty. I find the way the doors open is far better not having to sit on it when you half in half out when cooking. To me it sounded like you had some incentive to “dis” the Durston. ??
So glad that you've had success with this tent! It's funny to me that you think I have some incentive to diss the Durston when I repeatedly commend the man in multiple previous comments and clearly state at the end of the video that I've received no commission or consideration from either brand. No sir / ma'am, I can assure you I would very much have preferred to love this tent but after just about 3 months living in it I reached a very different conclusion. I'm interested to hear more about your experience with this tent-- what surfaces have you camped on and in what conditions? Flat, grass, hilly, muddy, rocky, established, backcountry, rooty, manicured, competitive (other hikers around), windy, rainy, cold, etc? I've had many people comment that they've had positive experiences with this tent and while I am honestly very happy to hear it, I am always interested to know more about their usage. I'm pretty clear in this video that my assessment pertains only to thru-hiking the PCT / AT / CDT, and I never say categorically that this is a "bad" tent, because that's not how I feel. But what's been your usage?
I agree about the footprint size of the durston and the short guy lines, makes its not a real back country tent. It is however it is a great product for the US market and the defined tent sites of the parks there.
Absolutely! I never call the Durston a "bad" tent, I don't feel that it is a bad tent, I think in the right situation and conditions, it would be a fine tent. My point is primarily that in my experience, those situations and conditions are exceedingly rare on a thru-hike of the Triple Crown trails, and that it is not the tent I would choose for a thru-hike of those trails. Obviously even with that said, I'm sure there are still people who love this tent dearly and have had nothing but success with it. They're not wrong, that just isn't my experience
I think you overestimate the shortcomings of the X-mid and underestimate the flaws of the Duplex. No tent is perfect and you have to be careful not to be too one-sided when reviewing on CZcams. I have had 11 different lightweight tents including an Altaplex and two different Lanshans (- 2 and 2 Pro). I don't think the Lanshans were easy to pitch at all. On the contrary! You also show yourself that you have to find two branches to get enough headroom. In addition, there are problems with the pole in the middle, the rainbow door, that gets dirty easily, the lack of ventilation at the top (which you apparently don't think has any effect, which is rubbish i.m.o.) and the stupid toggle on the door. There are also problems with the direction of the wind in relation to the doors - the wind often changes during the night. In addition, Dixie has shown a video where water flows into the tent. I also don't understand that pitching the tent should be a problem. If you follow Dan Durston's latest video where you put 2 pegs at the short end and at the opposite end find the middle - so you have a perfect rectangle - the rest will take care of itself. Besides - I wonder why ZPacks is in such a hurry to copy the X-Mid? 😜 Disclaimer: Dan D. doesn’t pay me for writing this - unfortunately! 😂
Thanks for this post! You're right that there are also design flaws in the Duplex, and it is a fair point that I don't get into detail on those flaws in this video. The thumbnail describes the video as "Why I Ditched Durston," but I do erroneously title the video as a comparison, and then in the intro describe how I will compare the tents. Watching the video, I can see how I give the impression that it is designed to be a comparison video, however when I shot it my goal was to explain why I made the switch back to my Duplex from the XMid Pro 2. A proper comparison video should include a more detailed breakdown of the flaws in both tents, however my goal was not to create a comparison video but an explanation of my switch. I confess that my delivery muddies my objective, and for this I'm sorry. Regarding finding sticks for Duplex headroom (I use just one stick 99% of the time), I can say that I found this to be an issue exactly 3 times in 7,500mi+. I struggled to find an appropriate stick only in the Great Basin section of the Continental Divide Trail. Every other section of every other trail posed no challenges in finding a stick, where many section of each trail posed serious challenges in finding a plot adequate for the Xmid Pro 2. I sense that there is a lot of personal preference in your comment-- from your assessment that the Duplex door gets dirty easily, or your disapproval of its toggle. In my experience, the door does not get dirty particularly easily, and while I have struggled periodically with the toggle, I still prefer it to a zipper, but this again all comes down to personal preference. Regarding the difficulty in pitching, I have watched Dan's video, and while it was helpful, I have continued to struggle pitching on unlevel ground / rocky ground (to include not only visibly rocky ground, but ground with buried stones). I fully confess that perhaps I am just too sensitive to the specificity it requires, or perhaps too intellectually dense to understand it. In this video I sought only to explain my experience, my frustrations, and my decision to switch back to the Duplex.
@@travelinbeat okay - I disagree, but your explanation is accepted. But - it is not that the door gets dirty - it’s the rainbow zipper that often falls to the ground or to the dusty tentfloor.. 😉
I'd rather have a zipper any day vs those little toggels,......wind and rain, you will get wet in the duplex and that door is a terrible design. Look at Dixie's experience she had with her Duplex in wind and rain. Appreciate the vlog though and agree, the setup can be tricky because of the Xmid's design. Also the point about the lines, but you can extend them. Just my 2 cents :)
Fair points-- given expected rain / snow, and given no dust, perhaps the Durston would have an edge, and / or the zipper wouldn't be a nuisance. Dixie's experience with wind and weather was in Iceland. Iceland has radically different meteorology than any of the Triple Crown trails, and I wouldn't recommend either of these for those conditions (and I'm sure Dixie feels the same!)
It's ok if you describe your experience with your version of the Xmid2pr then. - But this is of doubtable benefit for someone who has to decide today. Stronger magnets now, extending the guy lines is no rocket science, never heard of skinny pitch options? For me it is a no-brainer: thumb down for this video.
I totally agree with you, Henning! X-Mid is the best tent ever. That’s probably why ZPacks are trying to copy it regarding the zip and the offset poles in their new versions..😅
I appreciate you weighing in! For the record, I believe Dan is using the same magnets, just doing one less layer of material over top of them. This in and of itself leads me to wonder why "extra" material was used initially if it wasn't necessary, and whether removing some of that material would have a noticeable affect on a) the strength of the magnetic hold, and b) the durability of the construction, given that he initially felt the extra material to be necessary. You're right that extending guylines isn't difficult, and I carried cordage and a knife and could have taken this step and did not. I was concerned about the already-established exacting nature of this tent and whether the longer guylines would just exacerbate that difficulty. I did not experiment very much with the skinny pitch, but it too was on my radar. I could, I suppose, have spent nearly $700 on this tent and then lived with all of the shortcomings, struggled with the pitch, adapted to its size by pitching only the skinny method, and then have never made a video expressing my frustrations, but I chose instead to calmly, and in a considered and measured tone, communicate what I did not like about this tent, particularly compared to a tent I love. I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, I tried very hard to avoid making broad and declarative statements and instead leaned on very specific observations. If you have success with this tent, I say congratulations, and I'm happy for you, really and truly. I just felt a bit of an obligation, as a guy who videoed every day of hiking the Triple Crown, to share my experience and explain why I made the switch. And for the record, NO ONE should buy either of these tents or any other tent on a snap decision (as in your "doubtable benefit for someone who has to decide today" analysis). I posted this video in mid-November -- pretty much the exact furthest I could get after one thru-hike season and before the next. Forgive my inclination to explain my frustrations to others who fret over spending this kind of money.
Sounds like grifty user error in regards to the Durston. When it's windy, you rely on the angle YOU pitch the tent and the zipper to deflect the wind, not sure why you'd want your door open. Instead of blaming the tent, glue on some extra magnets instead of complain about something that can be easily fixed. And short guylines? Are you so ultralight that you don't carry extra coordage and work around the problem? Wow, man.
I appreciate this comment! You're absolutely right that both tents require thought in order to pitch in windy conditions-- I cannot think of any tent I've ever seen that does not have this requirement. Regarding the open door, in none of my hikes have I ever preferred closed vestibules unless crowds or weather have prohibited it. You're absolutely right that I could have glued on extra magnets-- I do carry crazy glue in my first aid kit. I do not not carry magnets however, and with a 30lb (or even 10lb for that matter) pack, and without a car, procuring magnets would have been a challenge on trail (although admittedly, not an insurmountable one). Short guylines, yes. I do carry extra cordage and always have. I have never called myself an ultralighter. However, I have repeatedly and explicitly claimed NOT to be one. So you're perhaps right in spirit on these points-- I have most of what I needed to fix this brand new, nearly $700 tent, and I don't mind fixing gear (see my clips in getting to Ashland). But I'll admit, further, that I am a little too proud or cheap or whatever to be happy paying that kind of money for a tent with design errors which demand my intervention. For the record, I did modify the tent by installing loops for a clothesline-- a product I bought from Zpacks to reproduce a functionality which comes stock in the Duplex. Let me share my exact quote from the main point of this video: "The main reason why I switched from the Durston back to my Duplex: It wasn't so much the vents that don't really do anything, it wasn't the magnetic toggles that just come loose in any sort of wind, it wasn't even those little four inch stays at the four corners of the bathroom that wind up poking through the floor material and damaging the tent, the main reason why I switched fromthe Durston back to my Duplex was just the difficulty in pitching." Regarding your suggestion that I'm a grifter, I see no reason to devolve to personal attack if you have superior points to make. I'd love to hear how many nights you spent in this tent and in what conditions. I say explicitly at the end that the Duplex is a better tent for a thru-hike. I never call the Durston a bad tent. This is my experience after 1,200mi and I welcome a diversity of opinions, but I think you misunderstood me, so I wanted to clear up my position. Hope this helps!
NO one talks but, Durston (X-Mid) cloned this tent from the Sierra Designs - High Route 3000 1P 🙂 this tent was released several years earlier than X-mid 🙂
I bought the XMid Pro 1 last February and couldn't set it up on the first pitch. If I can't set it up immediately, back it goes! I will continue to use my Duplex and Plex Solo-both great tents! Thanks for the comparison review.
@@travelinbeat How about a video on the best ease of use gear, i.e. stove, water filter, tent, quilt, etc. When I hike15-20 miles a day I don't want to mess around with gear-it's got to be easy!
I had a Duplex before selling it and buying the XMid Pro2 - - Big mistake. I live in Scotland and do a lot of long distance hiking and have never had a problem with the Duplex...except for the lack of Zip issue. I used the XMid on the Skye trail and found it to be awful in medium/high wind. Also, and like you, because you have to set it up so carefully with the sides close to the ground, its almost impossible to avoid things touching it or rubbing against it in windy conditions. My tent actually ripped and i subsequently found a number of frayed edges on the bottom edge of the tent. I just couldnt trust it any longer and would never recommend it to any long distance hiker. I have now moved back to ZPacks and got the duplex zip, which i used on the Cape Wrath Trail and was absolutely brilliant. Its perfect for UK weather, solid in the wind, light to carry, easy to pitch and still big inside. In my opinion it is way, way better than the XMid.
Thank you for sharing your experience with these tents!! Scotland is on my list of potential hiking locations and for that reason I particularly appreciate your insights! I've also been eyeing a Hilleberg, which should be able to perform in the higher winds and more consistent precipitation of not only Scotland, but some of the other places on my list too
I must say that I'm a little surprised to hear such trivial complains from a "Triple Crowner".; I thought those guys were a bit more resilient. Short guy-lines shouldn't stump you dude.
I got a Telya buddy you have way more experience than I do but all of these sound like complete Hawaii dog problems, I think there’s a cloud in the sky but remember you’re in Hawaii
I appreciate this simile, I hadn't heard it before and enjoy the image. I understand that these are all kind of nit-picky issues, but honestly after hiking all day every day, it's important to me that camp goes up easy and without much issue. I had an experience at 10,500ft where a thunderstorm was rolling in after we had hiked 14mi over 11hr through the snow (see my PCT Day 70 video: czcams.com/video/Dd1LI1Pe_RI/video.htmlsi=2CXVcA_Ibc28Ixop ). All I wanted in that situation was a shelter I could quickly throw up without issue but this tent insists upon all four corners being level plus a multitude of other minutiae. I've found that just about everything in thru-hiking needs early attention-- be it a speck of sand in the cuff of your sock or a tent that demands too much specificity. This tent, for me and in my experience, is just too persnickity to recommend for the purpose of a thru-hike.
Thanks for sharing your experience and sorry the X-Mid didn't end up working as you hoped. I'll provide some comments and explanation for a few of the topics you raise.
SHORT GUYLINES
The corner guylines are short to save weight and avoid tangles but this is something that is easy to swap if you prefer longer lines. We include extra cord with the tent and recommend changing to longer lines if you would like to be able to tie to rocks. Replacement cords can be quickly route through the tensioners so it only takes a couple minutes to have the cords however you like them. I personally prefer shorter lines and then I add extensions with a girth hitch if I want to tie to rocks, but for 2024 I did make the stock lines longer for more adjustability.
PITCHING
With regard to the pitching process, I respectfully don't think that the X-Mid demands a higher degree of perfection than other tents. The ease of pitching this tent is one of the main reasons why people like it. The core pitch is just staking out a rectangle and then as long as it's reasonably close to square and the poles are extended firmly it's going to be pretty good. Other tents like the Duplex have more stakes and require more estimating of distances and less intuitive angles. It looks like you quickly get a nice pitch in this video so maybe the issue is moreso the size (discussed below) rather than the actual pitch method.
For the video, a lot of the 18 minute length is optional extras and variations, as it covers the basic pitch in just 30 seconds. I do suggest putting in the stakes halfway in case you need to move them, but that is a good tip for any tent and not intended as an admission that getting the stakes in the right spot is unusually hard. Anyways, I'm hardly neutral but I think most people find the X-Mid simpler to pitch than the Duplex since it does pitch with fewer stake and has a simpler base shape.
SIZE
The X-Mid Pro 2 is a larger tent for sure but the actual footprint isn't that different (only 13% by area) and you can collapse the vestibules to make both tents just the 46" x 90" floor area. I have a video on how to do that and I think that would have resolved your issues with fitting into small sites on the PCT.
I think the main reason why the X-Mid can feel harder to fit into small sites is because the lower cut fly that won't float over obstacles as well as the Duplex (which has that large gap). This is a tradeoff where the low cut fly offers more protection from drafts and splatter while the high cut fly floats over objects/uneven ground easier. A common complaint with the Duplex is that it is very drafty which the X-Mid much improves, but yes there are times where the high cut fly is nice. I think there is quite a bit of personal preference here, where some people value the high cut fly and others value the added protection of more coverage.
For a solo thruhiker, I think our X-Mid Pro 1 is often the better tent. It's super spacious for a 1P tent with more interior volume than the Altaplex, yet fits into quite small sites. It's also easier to get flat terrain because you need a smaller spot.
MAGNETS AND STRUTS
I appreciate the feedback about the magnets. They were weaker in 2022 so I updated them for 2023. It looks like you have a 2023 tent so I'm surprised you didn't have good results. They should hold firmly if the door is rolled up reasonable well, but maybe the magnets lost magnetism. For 2024 I have added an additional magnet toggle which is normally used for the inner door but can also be used to double up the fly door to make it very secure. For the struts, I'm not quite sure what happened at that one corner to cause the damage but it's not a normal occurrence. We've only got 1 or 2 reports ever of that type of thing, so perhaps there is something we can make stronger here but it's not normally a failure point in the tent. We are happy to repair this for you under warranty.
Thanks for trying our tents,
Dan
Hey Dan, thanks for weighing in here, I never doubted that you would find this video and take the time to craft an articulate, thoughtful response. Just want to say for those reading, as much as the XMid Pro 2 didn't work for me, I must say that Dan Durston is a class-act and a solid dude. I've found his customer support and expertise to be stellar. For the record, I have also have fantastic luck with ZPacks customer service and expertise, but I just wanted to get on record with this.
Dan-- I appreciate your dedication to your product and involvement in its reputation after sale. You say that the ease of pitch is one of the main reasons people like this tent. For those I've met who love the tent (exactly 1/5 of the Xmid Pro 2 users I chatted with at length on the PCT), I concur with your observation, however you must by now be aware that there is also a sizable number of folks (including the other 4/5 XMid Pro 2 users I chatted with at length on the PCT) who can't get over their experiences of finding the pitch very difficult. Perhaps this is user error, or design error, or (most likely in my opinion) some sliding-scale combination of both, but you must at a minimum be aware of this issue.
I can't expect you, nor am I asking you, to point out any flaws in your product, I'm just amazed if somehow these complaints how gone unnoticed, given that they are widespread among those I've met on trail and among those even who have commented on this video. I wish there was a way to survey everyone who has purchased this tent, but I acknowledge that that would be very difficult to do and would involve too many variables in experience to yield a meaningful conclusion.
Anyways, I too am very sorry that this tent didn't work out for me. This video is not a knock on those who love it, it's not a declaration that it's a "bad" tent, it is my honest, thoughtful, considered, and measured recounting of why I switched back to the Duplex and why I would recommend the Duplex over the Xmid Pro 2 for a thru-hike of the "Big 3."
Wish you all the best of luck, Dan, and I look forward to checking out more of your products in the future!
@@travelinbeat Thanks for the kind words. I do genuinely appreciate hearing your experience as constructive criticism is always helpful and in everyone's best interest in the long term. I am a bit surprised about people finding the pitch challenging because we really don't hear that very much other than comments about the footprint size. For example, the X-Mid was the highest rated 1P shelter on the PCT last year in the Halfway Anywhere survey for user satisfaction, which I don't think you'd get if a lot of people were having a hard time pitching it.
With that said, I do agree the DCF versions are going to be less forgiving due to the non-stretch material. I personally don't find them too hard but yes the silpoly versions are easier. Part of the different outcomes might be related to different backgrounds. When I hiked the PCT in 2014 I used a tarptent stratospire which had an even larger footprint than the X-Mid 2 and was more difficult to pitch due to the odd shape and strut corners which had no flexibility in their height or position. So coming from that the X-Mid seems easy, whereas for someone who's used to the Duplex with high cut fly and the doors rolled back so it can pitch in just the floor area, I can see how it would be harder.
All the best,
Dan
I love my XMid Pro1 but I have to agree with pitching issue - it's super easy with flat and plentiful spot but challenging with any sort of slope or obstacle. I do orient bathtab floor rather than Fly for easier pitching. I do appreciate possibility of lower pitcher as I hate backsplash on many other tents (eg Notch). I'll probably go with Tarptent Rainbow Li next
Thanks to you both. I'm planning a thru-hike March 2024 and I had pretty much decided on the Durston X-Mid1. After reading all of these comments, I'm going with the X-Mid 1. The polyester version.
Forgot about the Duplex 'flying-floor' in my rebuttal. That was annoying too. Love, love, love your tent sir. It's the greatest hiking-gear advancement in decades.
So much appreciated your video, and all of the comments. I have exclusively used the Zpacks Duplex and Triplex for several years and have mostly loved them, but struggled not having a wet footbox and/or head since I am 6'2". The other serious issue with the zpacks tents is how easily rain/dew runnoff pours in if you are on any slight incline, and the floor/tub wall gets pushed out past the outer ceiling edge. I have modified both tents with pole cup extenders (using UL poles instead of a stick) and guylines to add vertical space at the ends of the tent, but still struggle to keep the water out if I am not pitched on perfectly flat, level ground. To have the perfect zpacks duplex or triplex pitch, you must ALSO have perfect level ground to avoid any of these issues. That said I have been in the most incredible weather with extreme wind coming from all directions, rain, sleet, hail, SNOW (at times during the same storm event) and have been amazed and grateful how these tents have literally saved my life from exposure..even though water was dripping on my head from inside condensation haha! I concluded the next "upgrade" would be the Duplex XL, or the HMG Ultamid, but have been put out at the cost and the additional weight of the Ultamid (although I'll probably buy it anyway - gear junkie!), and not forgetting the challenges of the duplex/triplex needing perfectly level ground to keep the water from accidentally pouring in.
Then I learned of the X-Mid. Have not pulled the trigger on it yet (need a bit more $$ still), but am fascinated on its design and headroom and just needing 4 stakes to get it pitched (besides the doors)! The additional vertical space for the head and foot space looks like a dream come true! PLUS it weighs LESS than the Duplex XL. This video and comments have convinced me to definitely purchase the X-Mid Pro2. From all I have have seen (review wise), and from what I personally know from exclusive use of the Triplex and Duplex, the main pain could just be those magnetic straps for the vestibule and screen doors, and like a previous commenter has said: it is half the fun to work/play/mod the gear!
As an Entrepreneur myself I am also very pleased to support Dan (as I have with Joe and Zpacks). Free Enterprise Rocks!
I live in the Intermountain West where my backpacking trips go deep and high in the wilderness and I normally see no one for days, so footprint size is rarely a problem. Those issues you mentioned of finding enough real estate on the PCT sounds like a zoo to me, imo.
Hey Craig thanks so much for your comment! I can definitely understand how the Duplex could present issues given your height (for the record I am 5'11"). I'll say I have a Triple Crowner+ friend who is a a few inches taller and has had good luck with his DupleXL, but I won't speak too much on the grounds of hearsay-- for more you can check out his channel, @feralhikes8898 . Personally I have had good luck with the tent (standard Duplex) on non-level ground even in inclimate weather, but typically in those conditions I will pitch it lower than the standard 120cm height. Further, I typically sleep with an 1/8" foam mat under my inflatable pad, which prevents me and my sleeping pad from sliding around on the floor (which results in protruding the bathtub beyond the ceiling, thus funneling rain into the bathtub per your description).
I certainly don't intend this video to be a categorical and universal "diss" of the XMid Pro 2. In this video I sought only to explain my experience with the tent, compare it to my experiences with the Duplex, and present why I feel that the Duplex is a far superior tent for the hiking I have done. Issues such as user height, terrain, weather, and trail traffic will absolutely affect the calculus of determining which of these two tents will be the appropriate choice.
I'd like to leave you with a quick clip from a recent Q&A in which I show off a recent mod to my Duplex which, sadly, I remain yet to have tested. Perhaps this sort of mod would be a consideration should you choose to go DupleXL in the future.
czcams.com/video/BcMHdl6CMiI/video.htmlm36s
It is harder to find a spot to pitch the 2P Durston, so I can understand why you switched, but the Durston is clearly more weatherproof than the Duplex. Durston has fixed the magnets problem with stronger magnets. I switched out the guy lines with longer ones so I can either pitch it right down on the ground, or tie off to anything handy. The video clip of Dixie in a Duplex in Iceland during a wind storm shows the folly of toggles instead of zippers for the fly. Admittedly I have X-Mid 1P, so it’s easier to find a spot to set up. Of all the tents I’ve owned since I started backpacking in 1974, the Durston is the most intelligent, well thought out tent I’ve owned.
Thanks for chiming in, it's good to hear your experience!! My buddy, Rabbit has a Durston XMid 1 as well and didn't seem to have quite as pronounced challenges as I did with the Pro 2. I think part of this came from the slight stretch of his tents material vs. the rigidity of my tent's Dyneema.
I don't deny that the weather worthiness of the Durston is better than the Duplex, I just think that in my experience, the greater weather worthiness is neither pronounced nor necessary enough to offset / outweigh the troubles it posed me over 1,200mi. If I knew I was going out in weather, with established / large / uncrowded campsites, and with level earth, and without dust, I would chose the Durston.
For a thru-hike, when I strive for as "silver-bullet-y" a tent as I can get for: the conditions I'm most likely to encounter (and still plenty safe enough for some margin beyond that point), the ease of pitch, the versatility, and the simplicity of design, I would definitely prefer the Duplex.
This is not at all me saying I'm right and you're wrong-- I completely believe that what's good for one may not be good for all (or *not good for that matter).
Regarding Dixie's experience, I don't know why she brought a Duplex to an environment wherein damaging gusts are standard protocol. I don't think I would want either of these tents out there (though to your point, if I had to choose, I might choose the Durston).
Ever heard of “skinny pitch”? 😜
@kimpriessloft371 I'll admit that I did not experiment with the skinny pitch very much. I did look into it somewhat, but again just found myself wondering why I would carry this tent over my other one if this one routinely required a modified pitch. There is no single complaint I have about the Durston that own its own would have lead me to switch back to my Duplex-- it was the multiple adaptations it required, and the specificity of steps required to get it right. In rewatching this video, I also notice now that I didn't even mention how an iff-level surface also poses its own threat to a perfect pitch.
I found a better way to pitch the 2P than Dan's recommendations.
With Dan's method, you lay the fly first but then its a crap shoot if the inner will lay over roots or rocks in a tight spot, just like you found.
Instead, I first lay down a polycro footprint cut to size of the floor exactly where I want the inner to lie, avoiding the worst roots and rocks.
Then I lay the fly on top. The key is to first stake out the fly corner that connects close to the inner (not the vestibule corner), right next to the footprint corner.
Next, stake down the opposite end of that same short side because you just line the fly up parallel with the footprint.
Then move to the opposite side and peg the next two stakes down so the fly is in a rectangle.
In tight spots with lots of roots and rocks, it would take me up to 30 mins before, readjusting the stakes several times. Now, 10 minutes tops.
I also switched to longer dynema core guylines, and skinny pitch when I need to. There's no way I would have been able to pitch in all my sites with the stock guylines.
Its been a great tent for me now.
Awesome insight, thanks!! I will confess that I'd moved on from the XMid at this point, but I think your method makes sense and I hope that this helps others! I know Dan is lurking around here someplace, I'm interested to hear his thoughts on your approach, too
This is how I pitch it as well. It fixes all his issues and pitches perfectly first time every time.
Thank you so much for the thorough review! You haven't turned me off my plan of getting an X-Mid 2 (the silpoly though), but you have certainly given me things to consider. I appreciated how unbiased your evaluation of the tents seemed.
Awesome, thank you so much for your comment, I'm thrilled that this video has helped you! I should say that I hiked through the Sierra with a hiker, Rabbit, who had a silpoly Durston and it certainly seemed that his tent went up way easier than mine ever did. He was a big fan of his tent, hopefully you will have a similar experience with yours!
I tented near you during that huge windstorm near Tehachapi and no tent was adequate in that storm !! I was giving the Durston some consideration as well as the Z-Packs and your video really helps. Very honest and informative. I enjoy your professionalism with your explanation and using the technical term "persnickety" Thanks !!
Haha, that's my inner English major leaking out there!! 😆 So good to hear from you!!! Man what a hard night that was, I'm so glad yo hear from someone who was there!! How'd the rest of your trail go??
I continued this fall to Echo Lake and so have now completed close to 1,100 miles. I'm planning to continue next year with another section to the Oregon border and then I plan to watch your videos to help me plan that trip and am really looking forward to it !! Also looking forward to you future videos and hiking adventures. Take care. @@travelinbeat
Very thoughtful and interesting comparison. Thanks for posting and hi to Mrs. B! You look so healthy and rested! 😃
Thanks, Paulie and Bill!! Just putting the finishing touches on what will be a 5 part (!!) Q&A series, hoping to post Part 1 in the next week and roll out the next 4 at a pace of one per week thereafter
Thanks you the review. Sometimes with the duplex, i have hard time time finding enough real-estate
Wow yes if this is your experience I would CERTAINLY discourage getting the Durston!!
Congrats on the Triple Crown. Great perspective. New follower here. Crow✌️
Thank you very much, Crow! Very pleased to have you along!
What if you used your own longer guy lines?
I'm pretty sure Durston includes 50ft of extra guyline with the tent.
I considered stretching out the guylines but it also kind of looks like it might mess up the line from the corner of the Dyneema. I'm not sure whether this would be a consequential modification structurally, but it worried me enough that I didn't experiment with it. Dan does include extra cordage and I carried that cordage the whole trail
Thanks for sharing your personal experience with these tents. After all the comments and questions about the new Durstan tent on some of the hiking FB groups, I was thinking, Beat should make a video about how it worked/didn’t work for you. I’m not interested in using single wall tents, but it’s still interesting to learn about.
Thanks, Smiles, glad this helped! I've known that this video needed to be made ever since I decided to make the switch. Glad with how it came out, but a little bummed that I mentioned that I read and respond to every comment-- I underestimated the wrath of the Legion of Durston!!
5:10 Can you clarify on the size difference? Manufacturer website states that the Duplex is 93" x 100" and Xmid 2 pro is 80" x 100". So the outer dimensions of the Duplex are larger...
Thanks for this.
I have read the specs, and according to Mr. Durston's comment, (posted some 10hr after yours) his tent is 13% larger. 13% isn't a huge difference, I'll confess.
Dan also comments that he suspects that the reason so many people (I am FAR from unique in this assessment) feel his tent is so much larger is because it pitches so much closer to the ground, and therefore allows less floatation over obstacles. I commend this observation and appreciate his explaining it.
I don't explicitly discuss this in this video, and only tangentially suggest it, but I almost always pitch the Duplex as it is at the early part of the video-- with all four of the vestibule flaps pinned up. I suspect that in this configuration, the footprint disparity would be significantly more pronounced.
I tend to care far less about the specifications listed on the websites than on my personal experience. Anyone interested in these or any other tents can (and should) comb through manufacturer specifications. I would argue that they should also consider the lived experience of those who have used the product, and that is where this video comes in.
When I was trekking through the record snows of the Sierra on the PCT this year I routinely needed to shovel out a spot for camp. At this point I was still using the XMid. I found that my shorthand for the space required to pitch was that I needed to shovel out a spot twice as big as I would need to pitch my Duplex. I understand that this thought will drive people crazy, since the specs are what they are, and I decided not to include this assessment in the video only because I feared the wrath it would incur. I mention it now only to explain how significant the space requirement "feels," irrespective of the specs.
Until you've hiked 8mi in 13hr then had to shovel out a tentsite, I can't expect this assessment to make much sense, but it was a formative and recurrent experience which made an indelible mark on my perception of the space this tent requires.
I mean not to suggest that the Xmid Pro 2 requires twice as much space as the Duplex, I mean only to explain that with my experience being what it was with the Duplex (some 5000mi or so), I had a very good eye for what its space requirements were given its flexibility in pitching. I had far less experience with the Xmid Pro 2, but with its far less flexible design / pitching requirements, I shorthanded that I needed to dig out twice as much space for that tent as I would have required for my Duplex.
The X-Mid Pro 2 is a rectangle that is 80" x 100". The Duplex has a width and length that are similar or greater at 93" x 100" but it is a hexagon shape so the corners are trimmed off compared to a rectangle. This gives the Duplex 13% less area overall.
Which actually fits better will depend on the specifics of the site. On a rectangular platform the X-Mid will fit better because it can fit onto a smaller platform due to the reduced width, whereas with a round site the Duplex will fit better with it's more rounded (hexagon) shape. If I trimmed back the X-Mid fly it could be smaller and float more over uneven terrain, but the X-Mid is designed more for tough weather conditions where the full coverage fly is valuable for blocking drafts and splatter.
So it is a trade off with different values. I personally prefer the greater protection of a low cut fly but in fair weather a higher fly is nice. I personally don't find a big issue with pitching a low cut fly because if the site is an issue I'll just collapse one or both vestibules and then both tents pitch about the same size (just the floor).
I'm not gonna write an essay like Dan did, but I also used the X-Mid on the PCT this year (Pro 1) and I'll agree that the Pro 2 is way too big for the PCT and I would not have enjoyed finding tent spots that could fit it, but otherwise I found none of your complaints an issue for me. I don't pitch it the way Dan instructs, and my method fixes all your issues and works first time every time. I came up with it on my second or third pitch before starting the trail. I also found the vents made a *huge* difference, as evidenced from the nights where I forgot to deploy the vents compared to the nights where I did. I do find the zippers to be too tight and not smooth, and it's a constant worry.
Yes I hiked through the Sierra with Rabbit, who carried an X-Mid 1 (non-DCF) and he seemed to have much better luck finding sites and getting his tent pitched up nicely. I'm very glad to hear that you have had success with your tent and appreciate you sharing your experience for other folks who may be thumbing through these comments prior to committing to a purchase!
Andy do you mind sharing your pitch method?
Another great video. Hoping to finally finish your AT videos
They'll be there whenever you're ready, Mark!
well, I have the Durston X Mid 1 p and it is awesome.. both set-up and space. Now I do not have the pro and the X mid has a removable liner which to me is perfect for me
Yes I hiked several hundred miles with a guy who had the non-Dyneema XMid 1 and he had a way easier time with his than I did with mine (Xmid Pro 2). I think the slight stretch in the non-Pro models does a lot of good, plus the obvious size difference.
The peak vents on the X-Mid are mostly there to prevent condensation. If you want more ventilation then roll up one or both of the fly doors.
Yes I have long understood the concept behind the vents, I just didn't find them to do much in service of their designed purpose.
I used your Weminuche Wilderness portion of the CDT videos to plan a hike in that area this summer. Thanks 😊
Aww that's awesome to hear, thank you so much for sharing!! How was your hike?!?
@@travelinbeat it went real well. Great weather great views Thanks
Oh I forgot to add. I ate at Freemont’s General Store outside of based off one of your videos. That place is killer!!!!
disagree with your ranking as it seems inclimate weather isn't that much of a concern for you. for me it's really important. Also, you used a XMid pro 2. did you look at the Pro 1? because it's not too large to pitch in smaller areas.
I understand that different weather may alter the calculus on this tent's virtues and vices. My experience is pretty limited to the first 1,200 of the PCT, with recent thru-hikes of the CDT and AT in the Duplex. For those trails, in "usual" hiking months, I would have preferred my Duplex.
Where / what is the weather you've encountered in this tent? What's your usage like? I'd love to hear more about your experience!
It's crazy that some people are jumping on you.. I think having the feedback of someone who used it for 1200 miles on the trail is WAYY more valid than the tens of people that just pitched it in their flat garden before making a "review". Thx
Thanks very much for sharing this. I too think it's been a little crazy that folks are getting so personal and ravenous. I am very proud of how I stayed objective and measured throughout this review, but some folks just seem incapable of disagreeing respectfully. Can't say I didn't expect some degree of irresponsible dissent, but I'd be lying if I told you that I haven't been surprised by the breadth of it. I really appreciate you observing and commenting on it, I hope you've found this video helpful!
Love my X-Mid Pro 1. I’m certainly not an expert at pitching any tent, but I found the Durston easy to pitch. Roomy and comfortable, too. BTW, I’m a 60+ female.
That's awesome to hear, I'm glad that your tent works for you!! I'm curious-- what type of surfaces do you usually pitch it on? Is it dispersed backcountry rocky rooty level established sandy grassy etc? I do think it would be a far better tent for camping on large, established, level campsites (large and level and grassy and open in Durston's How to Pitch video)
The thing that I don't get is, when loogking at the measurements on the manufacurers websites, the xmid should be slightly smaller ... at least when the vestibules are staked out on both ... strange
Well said; a bunch of reviews complain that the Xmid footprint is larger than the Duplex, but according to manufacturer specs the opposite is true...
Apparently he doesn’t want to answer this question🤭
@@kimpriessloft371 give it some time, perhaps he is filming the measuring of the set up tends, that would actually be useful
I have read the specs, and according to Mr. Durston's comment, his tent is 13% larger. 13% isn't a huge difference, I'll confess.
Dan also comments that he suspects that the reason so many people (I am FAR from unique in this assessment) feel his tent is so much larger is because it pitches so much closer to the ground, and therefore allows less floatation over obstacles. I commend this observation and appreciate his explaining it.
I don't explicitly discuss this in this video, and only tangentially suggest it, but I almost always pitch the Duplex as it is at the early part of the video-- with all four of the vestibule flaps pinned up. I suspect that in this configuration, the footprint disparity would be significantly more pronounced.
I care FAR less about the specifications listed on the websites than on my personal experience. Anyone interested in these or any other tents can (and should) comb through manufacturer specifications. I would argue that they should also consider the lived experience of those who have used the product, and that is where this video comes in.
When I was trekking through the record snows of the Sierra on the PCT this year I routinely needed to shovel out a spot for camp. At this point I was still using the XMid. I found that my shorthand for the space required to pitch was that I needed to shovel out a spot twice as big as I would need to pitch my Duplex. I understand that this thought will drive people crazy, since the specs are what they are, and I decided not to include this assessment in the video only because I fear the wrath it would incur. I mention it now only to explain how significant the space requirement "feels," irrespective of the specs.
Until you've hiked 8mi in 13hr then had to shovel out a tentsite, I can't expect this assessment to make much sense, but it was a formative and recurrent experience which made an indelible mark on my perception of the space this tent requires.
@kimpiessloft371 please chill. I welcome divergent opinions and respectful discourse, but I create and post these videos around the schedules and interests of the rest of my life. I look forward to responding to people, but will, from time to time, not be able to do so immediately.
@@travelinbeat sorry, i didn't mean to call your judgment into question at all, I actually find your subjective perspective and comparison very useful and just by looking at your video it seems that the xmid has a bigger footprint (I also saw the issues regarding space when you were in the sierras)... i just find the mesurements strange as they don't seem to line up with the lived experiance and the measurements are what most people would go by when they compare tents (at least I can't afford to buy multiple tents and compare them side by side myself)
I used a Duplex on the AT and did half the PCT in '22 with the Xmid Pro 2 which I bought as a replacement. While I still like the Xmid for when I am sharing a tent, I have let go of the idea of using it just by myself. I could deal with all the drawbacks you rightfully raised...the short guy lines never bothered me but I wish they glided better through the line locs. Setting it up wasn't too bad. Also never experienced an issue with a magnet releasing which could be horrible because imagine you were cooking in the vestibule🙃. To me the deal breaker was the footprint size. When I hiked the PCT many hikers flipped up to WA due to fires further south and the trail got crowded. And there aren't that many camp sites in WA and most of them have one, maybe two spots that can fit the Xmid. So while I never had to hike on due to lack of space, it was something that was constantly on my mind and had me rush to get to camp if I knew it was a smaller camp site. I remember watching your Sierra videos knowing you had to dig out room for the tent and cringing at the idea you had to do that with this tent after such a exhausting hiking day...
I still think the Xmid is a very well designed shelter and the perceived roominess of the tent is so much superior to the Duplex where my head is very close to the sloping fabric of the DCF. And I have had several instances where the foot end of my quilt got drenched from touching the wall which was wet from condensation.
So to me the Xmid Pro 1 was the best of both worlds and I have been very happy with it on the Tour du Mont Blanc. I still need some more nights to get a definite verdict on it though. The slight weight drop is definitely appreciated.🤩
Thanks for the video Beat!✌
-Spinewalker
Thanks for watching and for your thoughtful comment! Definitely the footprint is among the biggest drawbacks for me, that and the process of pitching it. I suspect that the Xmid 1 (non-"Pro" / non-DCF) version would have been a much better decision for me than the Pro 2, but for now I'm just happy to be back in the arms of the one I love, the Duplex :)
Great explanation.
Thank you very much!! Glad it helped!!
Love my XMid 2P. It’s one of the easiest tents I’ve set up, I mean, I thought it was a “No Brainer” to change out those guy lines for longer ones before taking it out though 😂 I got a couple extra magnet clips that weigh nothing for the rolled up doors, so there’s no problem with that anymore either. The only issue I may have sometimes is the size of the pitch, but I’m almost 6’4 so I needed the space, I can always skinny pitch if need be.
Thanks for watching and commenting! Yeah I could see how this tent would be ideal for you given your height. Regarding switching out the guylines, I frequently considered it but feared doing so may adversely affect its angles (sounds like plenty of other folks have had success with longer lines however). Regarding adding magnets, for one I'd say nothing and nothing alone weighs nothing, and beyond that I just feel that a $600+ tent shouldn't require any modifications to function as designed, but maybe I'm just stubborn or cheap that way. I'm glad the tent works for you though, certainly everyone will have a different take on it!
Good to know, especially since your talking from experience. Are there any other tents you are interested in?
I am looking at Hillebergs right now-- I think the Akto specifically. Seems very weather worthy and I know my Dutch friend, Martin from the CDT last year, LOVES his.
Akto is awesome quality, BUT - 93 cm inner height and 1.7 kg. Hmmmm.. 😝
@kimpriessloft371 Yeah these are definitely downsides... I wouldn't have wanted an Akto for the trails I've done, buy I'm looking ahead at possible future hikes and most of the ones I'm considering may warrant something closer to 4-season durability.
I'm greatful for a review that isn't just a run of the mill positive stuff that everyone is espousing and copying. I really like X-mid. It's expensive though. I like that the poles not in the middle which is a deal breaker with the duplex for me. Also the direction of the bug net zippers are much better on Durston. X-mid 1 is smaller. I wonder what you'd think of that one.
Thanks for your positive comment! I am aware of the 1 person version but have not played with one. I will say I hikes through the Sierra with a guy who had the non-dyneema Durston 1P and he loved it. I think that having a material with a little more stretch to it would be a huge help in mitigating some of the issues I encountered and describe in this review
I get wind blowing rain into my Duplex and the Duplex collapses in wind if I don't set rocks on top of the stakes. It might take a learning curve to get a perfect pitch for the Durston, but I quickly realized you don't need a perfect pitch to obtain a strong pitch. I have never been able to get a perfect pitch on the Duplex. Customer service with Durston is superior to Zpacks and most other companies. I only wish the Pro 1 was slightly bigger as I don't need a 2P, Dan has already heard this from me. No company can please all people, I understand I'm in the minority on this. And no tent maker offers that, to my knowledge. P.S. no I didn't drink the purple Durston kool-aid. But I have experience with both and my preference is for the Xmid Pro2.
I appreciate you recounting your experience here, hopefully it helps others! I'll say I have not ever either of tents collapse in wind, but I expect our conditions aren't perfectly congruent. I also just wanted to say that I have had fantastic experiences with ZPack's customer service-- they have overnighted me components free of charge and even gave me a loaner-pack to finish the CDT when I had to return my pack to them for a repair. That said, Dan is also a great dude who stands behind his products, so I don't expect that that should be a concern for folks either.
PS: Durston Kool-Aid is a fun concept to consider as I wade through responding to some of these comments!! What a hornet's nest I've swatted with this one!! Thanks for politely voicing your divergent opinion!
You address all of the things that I was thinking about when the XMid Pro was released and unfortunately you also confirmed them, even though the tent looks really good with its values on paper and perfectly constructed.
Then I'll accept a little more weight for the sake of simplicity and stick with my TT Rainbow for the time being and look forward to switching to the Rainbow LI when it's available again in June =)
Glad this video helped you, thanks for watching and commenting!!
Great stuff!! Thanks for the review.
Thabjs for watching and commenting!
Thanks for your review. I currently have the Duplex that I used on the PCT. I have two big issues that are making me look at the xmid pro. One is the vertical space above the head & foot. The foot of my bag was always damp from condensation by hitting the tent roof. I even tried the stick trick on the guy line. I think the positioning of the offset poles with the xmid pro makes the end walls more vertical. Hopefully that solves my first issue. The second issue I'm having with the Duplex is the roof leaking at the ridge line. No matter how I tension the guy lines, the ridge forms a trough where rain pools and eventually drips through. I noticed it looked like you had tape along the ridge of your Duplex. Did you have the same problem?
Thanks for watching! So the space issue in the Duplex hasn't been a huge problem for me at 5'11", but totally I could see how it may cause issues for a taller person. I know my buddy, Feral is taller than me, and loves his DupleXL, but I won't speak to that too much as I've never used / owned / needed one. I am surprised to hear that the cantilever method isn't resolving your issue... who knows. I do expect that you would find the Xmid to provide more space on account of the steeper slope to the walls / ceiling, but be aware too that only half of the space in the head / foot will have more space, the other half will have less. It's a very strange / unintuitive / difficult to explain geometry that creates this phenomenon, and it likely wouldn't affect you too much if you're flying solo, but it may be worth keeping in mind.
I'm very impressed that you noticed the tape on ridgeline! So I had not specifically experienced leaks on the ridgeline... between the CDT and PCT I contacted Zpacks to ask if they could apply extra seam tape / waterproofing to the locations they have found to present the most issues. I had already taken the tent on 2 full thru-hikes and wanted to get it "tuned-up," so Zpacks agreed, charged me $20 (more than fair imo), and applied more tape not just to the ridgeline but also to the corner points where the guylines attach. I have since also applied some dyneema tape to the tie-out point for where those cantilever guylines attach to the tent, as I had indeed observed some mild leaking at these points (no doubt the result of some 6,000mi of hiking / pitching).
I'd love to hear back from you once you decide how you will proceed-- I'd be so interested to hear more of your experience if you feel like sharing once you have made your decisions / amassed sufficient experiences to judge.
Best of luck with your process, please let me know if I can help with any further questions!
Fantastic review. Appreciate your thoughts on both tents.
Thank you so much for your encouragement!! As I suggest multiple times, my experience isn't intrinsically indicative of how others will feel about either of these products, but I am very pleased with how comprehensively I was able to communicate exactly my sentiments, opinions, and experiences. I'm very pleased if this video has helped you, good luck with your tent shopping!!
I have the Zpacks Altaplex that has a relatively small footprint and it can be a challenge to find a good tent site at shelters on the AT with the Altaplex. So what you're saying about the Durston makes perfect sense@@travelinbeat
If you roll the vestibule doors from the bottom, it will be less likely that the wind will blow them open
Thanks for this comment! I tried all sorts of rolling methods but never found something that felt super solid for me, but I'm glad if you've found that it works for you and hopefully your comment will help someone else out there!
Interesting video. Would you choose the Duplex or the Duplex Zip if buying now?
Good question. I have no experience with the Duplex Zip, but two things would have me asking questions-- 1) I don't know what I really, really gain from a zipper in the Duplex, (it would still be drafty because of the "lift" from the bathtub to the roof, it would still require 2 hands to open/ close, and I worry that a zipper would just get "gummy"), and 2) In the Duplex I frequently pin together the doors, secure just the "headside" flap at the bullhorn toggle, and roll up the "footside" flap half way / to the toggle, then use a small binder clip to pin it up. This allows me to maintain rain worthiness in decently light rain, but not sacrifice all that ventilation. In the Durston, I've found this doesn't work as well with the zipper vs the toggle, and I would hate to lose that flexibility.
Without having those insights explained, I don't know why I would chose it over the OG Duplex.
I've only seen images of the Duplex Zip, but I'd expect the zippers (as long as they are strong enough) to be a slight advantage in strong winds and there are extra vents at the top - most likely a slight advantage for ventilation. Of course, extra vents and zippers add complexity to the design...
Really appreciate the detailed perspective on this. I have a Duplex and migrated to the Pro2…great tent but I just couldn’t make friends with it (you nailed the points). As I approach my AT through hike attempt late 2024, I’m now carrying the HMG Mid1. I really like the tent so far. What I need to do is swap back to my Duplex and see how I feel.
I'm sorry to hear that you had a similar experience, even if I'm a little pleased to get confirmation here that I'm not alone!
At '24, huh? Do we have each other's numbers? I'd love to keep in touch and see how our schedules line up once you hit SNP!
@@travelinbeat It’s going to be a very late SOBO start for winter…then flop down when I can’t progress. I’ll send you a pm in Instagram.
I did the same thing. Sold my pro 1 and got the HMG mid 1. Love it and it’s the easiest tent pitch ever…
@KrizAkoni yes please do reach out, I'd love to try and link up!
I sold my Durston after a short period of time , I did not find it to be a good tent. Lots of issues.
Sorry to hear you had a similar experience... I'm thrilled that some folks love it, it just didn't work for me at all. Sold me too fwiw, at like a $3-400 loss, no less... Meh...
Very complete, awesome review, thanks!
So glad you found it, watched it, and enjoyed it! Thanks for your comment!
I went with the Durston because I’m 6’4” and the z packs is too short.
Yeah I could see that-- I'm 5'11", right in the sweet spot of being neither a short guy nor a guy who's too tall for some things!
You menion that the xmid is exponentially larger. And way, way, way larger. But, it is actually the opposite. Duplex is a larger footprint. Im confused.
Yes there are many comments to this affect. Dan claims his tent is 13% larger than the Duplex. I very very rarely ever pitch the Duplex with the vestibule unfurled, which I suspect makes my common assessment of its footprint even smaller. Please review my reply to previous comments for more insights if you want to hear more on this, and thank you for watching and commenting!
I don't need more insight. You claim the tent with the smaller footprint is "exponentially larger" It's quite simply wrong. We have VERY different definitions of "exponential" And "common assessment" is also wrong. I own both tents. @@travelinbeat
My apologies Scott, when you claimed to be confused, I took that to mean that you wanted insight which may dispel your confusion. It is not uncommon for people to comment on the Xmid Pro 2 feeling like it has a bigger footprint. My standard pitch for the Duplex is to have the vestibule flaps pinned up. With my standard pitch of the Duplex, it has exponentially smaller footprint that the XMid Pro 2 with the vestibule staked out. Hope this brevity is helpful!
Just add longer guy line easy. Also take the tension off the zipper when pulling close and open helps to increase the life of the zipper
Yes adding longer guylines was certainly an option, and indeed it may well have improved if not extinguished a few of my complaints. I had been concerned about whether changing their length would negatively impact the geometry, however it seems from other comments as well that many folks have had success with extending them. Thanks for weighing in!!
Tweaking gear is part of the fun
@@travelinbeatI'm not a triple crowner or nothing but I have lived out of a backpack for 7 years traveling and hiking around the country. Nice review though I like plp being critical but when it's something so simple to do yourself it's not really worth complaining about.
@@travelinbeat I'll be pleased to see him offer a double wall dyneema tent option so you can raise the fly off the ground and create more ventilation
I’ve got a lot of stress holes in my duplex. Like hundreds. Any thoughts?
Wow that sounds like a huge bummer! How old is the tent? Have you reached out to Zpacks? Sounds like it may be too many to patch them all, but I really like the Dyneema tape they sell for patching over tenacious tape, etc
Thanks for the honest opinion, with the level of thru hike experience that you have, your feedback is really useful, I have good experience with traditional tents like the Hilleberg, Fjallraven etc, been looking for a lighter weight option for long distance hikes, I’ve read similar opinions in the hiking forums.
Thank you, Ray! I'm very pleased if this video helps / helped you! FYI I just purchased my first Hilleberg to better suit my future hiking ambitions-- looking forward to getting some miles in with my Akto soon!
How do you people afford to take time off work to do these big hikes , i REALLY want to do the AT but damn , the time i would have to take off would hurt
I can't speak for others but I work like crazy when I'm home and spend on very little else. I also have no kids so that helps w expenses too!
What do you think about the Duplex Zip?
I have no experience with it so wouldn't feel terribly comfortable offer many thoughts, but I would question what problem is being solved by using a zipper. Again, if I am confining my use-case to the AT, CDT, PCT, I just don't think there's any really need for a zipper over the classic toggle closers of the traditional Duplex. Obviously there are uses beyond those trails, but in most other conditions which I am imagining (Iceland, Scotland, Alaska), I suspect a different style of tent altogether may be appropriate (ie: Hilleberg, etc)
I wonder if a sill poly duplex who I’d do well. It’s nice being able to get a really nice tent under $300 that’s why I got the X mid I love you do need a giant tent spot for it, but it’s a solid tent I do a lot of winter camping in snow storms and it’s amazing in snow
I hiked with a guy who had the "non-Pro" / silpoly version of the Xmid 1, he enjoyed his tent and had fewer / less severe issues than I encountered with the non-stretch / Dyneema version
Never thought of a bit of customisation with the durston doors?? Like just sew on a toggle? Problem solved.
Sewing on a toggle may resolve this single issue, yes. It's worth bearing in mind, however, that sewing dyneema, particularly dyneema which you're counting on to protect you from the elements, is not super straightforward*. Nor would I be particularly jazzed about spending $700 on a product whose design flaws require my ingenuity to resolve / rectify. Meanwhile, as I point out quite plainly at the end of this video, the magnetic holds are neither my primary complaint nor do they play a major role in my disinclination to recommend this tent for thru-hiking.
* I don't mean to suggest that Sewing Dyneema is impossible or beyond my skillset, just that it would probably best be achieved in a more stable environment than a thru-hike.
Subscribed. Nice video, thanks :). Ive got a Durston xmid pro 2 somewhere in the post from Canada to England right now so I'm probably a bit late watching reviews hehe. Hoping to start my triple crown journey in the next few years once I have done all of the Camino de Santiago variations, so your vlogs will be really useful for me. Thanks again :)
Awesome, thanks, so glad you've found the channel!! Camino sounds lovely-- I'd love to hear back regarding your favorites once you feel qualified to make such an assessment!!
@@travelinbeat I’ve done quite a lot of them but there are many. All good for different reasons. I was chatting to some people that had just finished PCT recently and were chewing up the miles along the Camino del Norte and had to tell them they were doing it wrong in the same way I would be doing the PCT wrong if I wanted to take it slowly. Camino is a more like a tea house thru hike but has some magnificent scenery and history. There is no seasonal weather to get in front of so you can take your time and savour it, stop half way through the day and drink wine with the locals etc …no rush 😊
One of my favourites would be Camino Vadinience I think for mountains and lakes. I won’t put a link to it as this is your channel, but there is a playlist on YT of it if you are curious and want to give it a try some day. 😊
Can I ask a couple of quick questions which may already be on your channel (or might be an idea for a future vid).
1) knowing what you know, if you could go back in time, what order would you tell your past self to do the triple crown trails in?
2) Realistically how much does in cost over the 4 months in food resupply, a couple of replacement pairs of shoes and the occasional town burger / hostel?
Thanks again 😊
@NickLivingLife awesome, yeah my thought for Camino is that hopefully someday I'll be able to convince my wife that it would be fun to do together-- thus far she has expressed a blistering aversion to months without a bed or toilet or shower, and who could blame her, but my understanding and your characterization lead me to believe that the Camino can be approached in a far more comfortable manner-- fewer miles per day, more (if not noghtly) town stops with meals and bathing, lighter pack, etc.
Regarding your questions-- order of Triple Crown.... I think the AT is the least logistically challenging and the CDT is the most. The AT and PCT are both very social and populated, and the CDT the least. I think in order to give the best answer, I'd want to more clearly understand the experience level of the questioner. I am really happy with my order (AT, CDT, PCT), but there is certainly something to be said for trying to finish the 3C on Katahdin (northern terminus of the AT), as it remains probably the single most magical terminus of any of the trails, if not the most magical place altogether anywhere in the 8,000mi+. My buddy, 700, structured his 3C to end at Katahdin and I think that makes a ton of sense. It's worth considering though that no trail can compete with the PCT in terms of quality views, which is why I saved that one for last. I could see a PCT hiker becoming frustrated with the "green tunnel" of the AT, and it could become very difficult to remain motivated if you're not feeling it. Also the AT has plenty of water, so much so that it can be a challenge in and of itself (ie: 4 days and nights of non-stop rain), but all that water removes a significant planning factor which is endemic on the other 2 trails, thus making the hike simpler in terms of logistics.
Speaking of "simpler," this too is a particularly nebulous adjective to use in this discussion, as the AT certainly has the most frequent and severe elevation shift of the three (918k' over 2194mi =avg: 418ft/mi, PCT is 824k' over 2650mi=avg: 311ft/mi, CDT is 917.6k' over 3100mi=avg: 295ft/mi), but the AT has a max elevation of 6,643ft (Clingmans Dome), which is literally about half as high as the high point on the other 2 trails (PCT Forester Pass at 13,153ft, CDT Grays Peaks at 14,278ft). Further, both the PCT and CDT tend to ramble along for days / weeks at sustained elevations comparable to the AT's singular highest point. All this to say, the AT is far steeper with far more climbs and descents, but the other two introduce elevation concerns into the equation in a way that the AT does not.
Gosh what a ton to consider there!! Okay, question two: costs...
I intentionally do not track costs, so I'm kinda the exact wrong person to ask. According to HalfwayAnywhere.com 's 2023 hiker survey, the averages look like this: AT: (no data), CDT: $8,897, PCT: $10,216. I would assume that the AT could be the cheapest as there is a preponderance of affordable accommodation and dining pretty much throughout the entire route. That said, there are almost far more frequent towns, with frequent restaurants and beers, etc, and thus far more opportunities to blow-up your budget.
Golly, hope this helps!! I may refer you to my Q&A's from each trail-- AT Q&A took place half way through my hike, the CDT and PCT Q&A's appear at the end of my hike. Your can browse the playlists to track them down.
Godspeed!!
@@travelinbeat what an awesome reply. Oodles of detail there. Thanks so much. If you do convince your lady to do a Camino in the future , anything you want to know mate…just ask. 😊😊. Thanks again for being so helpful. 😊
Great points. All my gear along with a 2019 Duplex was stolen (insurance remimbursed) and I'm in the process of replacing everything. I was considering the X-Mid but you've reminded me why I loved the Duplex and was almost sucked into the Durston hype. All the bells and whistles don't overcome the simplicity of the Duplex. It has less failure points, can be pitched blindfolded and oriented correctly for sleeping... all requiring less real estate than the X-Mid.
Dang man that's terrible to hear about your stolen gear-- what a nightmare!! I'm glad insurance took care of you. Yeah I really wanted to love the Durston, but despite my best efforts, I just found myself frustrated by it, and continually lamented not having just brought out my trusty Duplex.
Hey beat…Congrats on your 👑👑👑!! Was in and out on your last hike’s vids. Have been dealing with my wife’s health this year. Finally watched your last vid from the PCT last night, so it was ironic you posted this video today. Again, congrats…You are in rare company! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Mr Titan, thanks for checking in, I appreciate your congratulations!! Hope my videos have provided some intermittent reprieve when things get tough-- I'm very sorry to hear about your wife and I'll be sending good vibes your way.
Super helpful video. I’ve been so close to pulling the trigger on the Durston, but something always holds me back. I’m a simple guy, especially when it comes to camping, having to practice pitching knowing that I’ll have to do this when I’m tired or it’s raining (probably both) is not appealing to me. Take care
Thank you for this comment, Grant! Seems like there are indeed plenty of people who really love this tent, but I've yet to speak (either in person or online) with a thru-hiker who loves it. I'm sure there are some out there, but I have yet to interact with them. It seems to me this tent would be lovely on large, flat, established campsites.
You nailed this review. Closest tents I’ve got is Xmid 1 solid and Zpacks Plexamid.
Glad you enjoyed this review!! Hope your tent-seeking journey pays off!!
I respect your opinion - you obviously have the experience to back it up. But I hiked about 600 miles on the AT using the X-mid 2 and it was a great tent. It is the first trekking pole tent I’ve ever used. The only issue I can relate to that you noted was the size of the footprint. It is larger than the Duplex but you have many more guidelines to trip over and position correctly with the Duplex, so I’m not so sure it is that big of a deal. In my experience, if you stake out the floor in a rectangle, you’re good to go. And the guidelines were fine - if you need longer guidelines, it’s not that hard to add length to them. And I’ll take a zipper over those clumsy loops anyway. The way you ended your video made it sound like the Duplex was undeniably much better than the X-mid. No comparison. Maybe since you are more familiar with the Duplex you tended to lean that way, but the feedback I get and read says that the X-mid is the better tent. Thanks for the review!
Thanks for watching and for your thoughtful comment, and congrats on biting off a big section of the AT! I too have read plenty of effusive reviews of the Xmid Pro 2, and honestly if folks are happy with their tent, that's all that matters. I am very pleased that you had success with it and love it, I would never suggest that one tent is universally "right" or "better" than other. In this video I give my opinion based on my experience, and I have to say, in my experience and to my taste, I prefer to Duplex. While I have read plenty of effusive reviews and have also read reports and encountered other hikers who are frustrated by different aspects of the Durston XMid Pro 2. I understood prior to publishing this video that I would face vitriol for my position, but I tried very hard to express that my opinion reflects only my experiences in the conditions I encountered. Given that, I prefer the Duplex, hands down. This isn't to say anyone else is wrong, I just wanted to explain my position. Thanks again for weighing in, I appreciate your perspective!
??? This is a selling point for durston, z packs you have to figure out wind. Direction so it does not flap or wind and water😂😂,, durston rocks!!!!
Very glad you love you tent! My preference and experience have lead me to conclude that the Duplex is far superior for thru-hiking the "Big Three" trails of the US, but again, I'm very pleased that your needs and preferences are met with the tent you own!
This pretty much reflects my experience - setting up this tent can be a real mission. That many people ‘boast’ about this tent, is meaningful. What these people do not seem to appreciate is that unless the pitch site is billiard table flat then the gap around the bottom can be a disaster in any sort of inclement weather.
I'd really like to see this tent with a higher bathtub, but not as extreme as the solid. In shoulder season below 40F, it can be a challenge to get the fly low enough to avoid splash in with a really hard rain, but still high enough to avoid strong condensation. A higher bathtub would allow a higher fly pitch, but I get why Dan did this because a higher fly pitch takes more experience to get the ridgeline and body panels to be crisp
Hi Chris. I'm not sure if you've checked out our new pitching video but for uneven terrain you can either:
1) Use the included cord to swap on longer lines so it floats higher off the ground.
2) Use the method shown at 8:00 in the pitching video to adjust for uneven terrain.
Hope that helps,
Dan
@@durstongear thank you, Dan. The pitching requirements are very specific. I’ve ended up several times in precarious situations where due to the nature of the terrain the ‘fly’ has ended up suspended some distance off the ground. The last straw for me was in August in the mountains. Trying to find a level pitch didn’t work. I ended up being caught in a summer storm with the weather / wind swinging around. Having 30 mph wind driving under the floating fly made for interesting time - the tent held together find but was like a balloon - and the rain pelted inside via the gap at the bottom. One of the issues on such uneven ground is the size of the footprint which is pretty massive. That’s great (for internal space) on level ground but as soon as you’re camping on ground that is uneven then it becomes an utter mission to pitch this tent. I’ve spent an hour trying to adjust the tent to resolve the issues whilst my friends have pitched their freestanding Hillebergs etc have put their tents up, cooked and eaten their meals in the dry whilst I’ve struggled to get my tent sorted.
The problem is now solved. I sold the tent. It simply cannot work in the mountains / hills;
when there are strong winds and very uneven ground. It does, however, work great when the ground is reasonably flat.
@@chrishamilton2527 Thanks for detailing your experience. The X-Mid design is similar to other mid style tents where you have a rectangular footprint with a low cut fly. Our new pitching guide shows how to adapt this for uneven ground (at 8:00). Mid style tents are popular in the mountains but I do agree a freestanding tent with a smaller footprint is going to be easier on very uneven ground.
Just wanted to pop in and thank Dan for his dedication to his product. I appreciate this back and forth and hope it helps folks in the future!
@chrishamilton2527, I had a similar experience on the backside of Selden Pass in the Sierra, Day 70 on the PCT, when after 12hr of hiking through snow,and trying to set up camp at 10,500ft, we had a thunderstorm rolling in on us. As I frantically tried to get my tent up safely, I just kept encountering issues which prevent my doing so... I kept cursing myself for having left my Duplex at home, knowing that I could have pitched that in a tenth the time and been safe and dry way sooner. Luckily all ended well, but I pretty much resolved right there and then to make the switch as soon as possible. Once I felt that my safety was in jeopardy, I decided my Xmid experiment was over. I totally get that it is a good tent, and perfectly capable of keeping hikers safe, but whether its my fault or a fault of the design is of little consequence-- I wanted a tent I felt comfortable setting up, and the Xmid didn't meet that threshold.
Have almost never used more than 4-stakes on Durston, but am admittedly not a fan of extraneous stakes (and the door stakes are definitely optional). Seems like you're spinning the story right off the bat? Duplex can be pitched with no less than six-stakes, but the side walls will be in your face if they are skipped. Magnet was a little wimpy and Dan did put in a larger magnet in recent models. Anyone can add magnet-strength by Dyneema-taping another same-size neodymium-magnet over the existing magnet. Duplex will remain a chore without extensive mods. Footprint is a valid beef if one is tiny like yourself (ignoring guy-lines). If one is tall, they'll have to get DuplexL, with added stakes and fragility. (more...)
Zippers are fragile? Then why not remove them from your mosquito-doors? Oh... because they aren't so fragile after all. Those Duplex doors are a nightmare if the wind shifts. First, they must be pitched to shed wind, making setup one extra thing to remember. Then, if wind shifts, the tent blows-up like a balloon along with rain, sleet and snow along with it. Duplex doors are a cluster- -f- mess.
Durston doors hitting you in the head? C'mon man, you're just making stuff up now. And just for completeness, Durston's mesh repels most bugs without even zipping it up. Permethrin the mesh and just let them hang. Talk about fiddle-free... Those Durston doors are awesome.
Durston vents: Some vents are better than no vents. Duplex has no vents at all, so why beef about small-vents? Regardless, Durston's doors can be partially or fully open (zippers) to increase crossflow. Duplex has no such option for partial door opening. As to "low-pitch." Durston may be pitched high (more than 8", if one so desires) or in intimate contact with the ground (e.g. in a snowstorm). Simply raise trekking-pole height on Durston. Couldn't be easier.
"Stays poke through floor?" Never heard of it. Never experienced it. You didn't do it on purpose, did you?
Back to "footprint" again? OK, look at Duplex guy-line stakeouts when considering footprint. Those count. Guy-lines are trip-hazards and one has to have clearance all around to accomplish them. Duplex apex-lines are 80" (just under 7-feet), sidewall guy-lines are 48" (4-feet) - now that's a footprint. Durston otoh, has virtually no guy-lines whatsoever. Recommended corner-length is 8" (stock come 16", adjusted to 8" ordinarily), but the stake and guy-line can (and usually are) flush to the ground and only 8" from the corner, for zero trip-hazard and no added "footprint" to accommodate guy-lines heading every which-way. If one has a beef with Durston guy line-length, add your own? This author swapped-out for reflective yellow corner-lines.
"Weather-worthiness?" "Not gaining that much from Durston?" Got to be kidding. Durston held up in huge winds and this author didn't even bother to get up and guy out the apex lines. Durston tent is a tank in the wind. Otoh, the ten-stakes DuplexL required were pulling out all night long in much less wind. And when even one stake pulled out of DuplexL, tent was slapping one in the face until it was addressed.
Sorry, your objections seem petty and capricious. Having owned both (DuplexL first), couldn't take the fragility of Duplex, the fiddly guy-lines, the ten-stakes (get to camp, it's time to eat and sleep, not struggle with tent-pegs and guy-lines half the night), the orientation of flappy doors, the short length (despite being XL, DuplexL bag foot-box and/or head wet many nights), the ridiculous half-moon mud-catching mesh doors, the falling-down everything on DuplexL. Sold it and was so happy when Durston came-out with his miracle-tent.
What's your use case for your Durston? I'll respond more later
@@travelinbeat - Am retired and thru-hike/section-hike months on end.
Cool, thanks, at least I can assume that we are speaking a similar language with respect to usage / experience.
You suggest that I "spin the story" right off the bat-- please believe me when I say I would very much have preferred to love this tent. I spent $700 on it and sold it for $300. I would have preferred to love it. The magnets didn't work for me, if he fixed them, that's great. I used 6 stakes with my Durston, tend to use 7 on the Duplex. For this video I pitched both tents as I usually pitched them on my thru-hikes, and more, as I saw them pitched most of the time by other thru-hikers. I have made no extensive mods in my Duplex, historically, and have never found its pitch to be a nuisance.
You call me "tiny--" not sure where there analysis comes from... I do not consider myself super tall, but I am 5'11", which officially puts me 1" taller than the average American non-hispanic (leave aside that my father is Hispanic, and I'm 4.5" taller than the average American hispanic). I certainly do not consider myself "tall," but in terms of averages, it is FAR more accurate to call me "tall" than "tiny." I have no idea why you felt it necessary to open your comment with what certainly feels like a strangely / toxically macho personal attack (albeit a demonstrably misguided and inaccurate one), but having corrected your assertion, I'll now leave it alone, and limit the scope of my response to the subject at hand.
You point out my gripe with zippers, and it's fair to observe that I didn't expand too much on this for my video. Certainly the Duplex also uses zippers, but in a different application. If you have a gummed up / failed zipper on the Durston in a heavy rain, you're getting wet. If you have a broken zipper on a Duplex, you can stay dry. To my mind there is a huge difference in relying on a zipper for bug protection vs weather protection. I am amazed that you've never encountered a zipper failure on a piece of gear-- I am envious of your luck!
Regarding wind / weather worthiness, I stand by my observations. Most nights on the "Big Three" trails in the USA are just not that windy, so it's just not that big a deal in my experience. If you want serious weather worthiness, get a Hilleberg (as I have done with an eye toward Iceland '25). Duplex does have a partial-open option-- it requires a binder clip / clothespin to tack up a vestibule flap half way (as it would on the Durston if you wanted to prevent superfluous flapping material). I've shown this method in other videos, not sure where off the top of my head. Honestly of the two tents, this half-closed method may even be more secure on a Duplex vs XMid Pro 2, as there is no risk of the opening expanding as it may with the zipper. Point is, Duplex absolutely DOES have an option for partial door opening to increase crossflow. Also worth noting here that if one were to pitch the Durston woth partially open fly doors, you'd be back to using an additional stake on each side for a total of 6 stakes. So if you're embarking on a 5 month hike and want to leave open this possibility, you're carrying at least 6 stakes for the Durston.
The hanging doors are neat, I suppose, and you're right that they will repel bugs without zipping them shut (unlike the Duplex), but this is scarcely sufficient to overcome the multitude of other shortcomings in my experience. Further, perhaps I was just insanely lucky for the 6,000mi+ that I carried my Duplex, but I just never really found it to be a huge problem to have the rainbow mesh on the floor. "Why beef about small vents?," you ask? Because they are a marketing point for the Xmid Pro 2. They are marketed as a benefit and my experience cast doubt on the impact of that claimed benefit. I found that they had little to no perceptible effect. This is why I "beef."
My little plastic(?) stay poked through the floor... why in the name of God would I have done that on purpose??? To even suggest that I would have WANTED to destroy the shelter I relied upon for safety is insane...
Regarding my focus on footprint, it's a big deal. If the corners of the Durston are at drastically different elevations (like, 4"-6"), it can be difficult to pitch properly. The guylines on a Duplex can accommodate all kinds of wonky "heights" of earth with no ill effect. Regarding their risk as a trip hazard, I suppose you're right that the Durston has less risk of being tripped over (despite the stock line being black vs Zpack's stock hi-vis yellow), however the short lines preclude the flexibility of accommodating unlevel ground, which in my experience, is a far more prevalent challenge than the trip hazard.
Toward the end of your comment you start mentioning that you've used 10 stakes for your DupleXL. I have literally *never* in well over 300nights and well over 6,000miles ever EVER used 10 stakes on my Duplex. I'm not calling you a liar at all, so don't get me wrong, I just want to get on-record for future readers that I have never used 10 stakes and frankly can't even think of 10 tie-out points for the Duplex.
I mean, I totally get that you are happier with your Durston XMid Pro 2, and frankly I am happy for you. Perhaps your (yet undefined) height, or your exact usage, or your experiences in specific weather has made that tent better for you than your DupleXL. I am not trying to talk you out of loving your tent-- indeed I'm very happy that you have found a tent that you love. I happen to have very different experiences with the Duplex vs the Xmid Pro 2. We can chalk it up to use-case, or height, or personal preference, or any great number of things. I'm content to leave it at that. I've explained in the video what shortcomings I experienced and why I feel very strongly that I would recommend the Duplex over the Xmid Pro 2 for a thru-hike of the AT / PCT / CDT, and I stand by my observations / experiences / recommendations. I appreciate you sharing your difference of opinions, and thank you for allowing me to correct / respond to some of your points.
Keep hiking, brother
PS: capricious: "Characterized by caprice; apt to change opinions suddenly, or to deviate from one's purpose; unsteady; changeable; fickle; subject to change or irregularity."
My opinion of the Duplex was formed after 300+ nights, from the deserts in the boothill of New Mexico, to the fridgid nights in mid-February in Georia, to the sweltering mid-Atlantic summers and 12,000ft elevations of Colorado. My opinion of the Durston was formed over the course of more than 50 nights in the tent ranging from the deserts of Southern California to the 13,000ft elevations and record snowfall of the High Sierras in 2023. My opinion of these pieces of equipment couldn't possibly be described as fickle or subject to change. My opinion is field-tested and tried and true. My opinion is just opinion, but it is assuredly NOT capricious. Your experience and opinion may differ, but I will not slander it as capricious, and certainly, I would appreciate it if you would spare me the same respect.
Dyneema tents are such an overhyped piece of gear... I feel sorry for people who never backpacked investing in such tents. In my almost 40 years of experience, im glad this trend never came to Scandinavia
I can only imagine how silly a Dyneema tent would be for the conditions I would expect in Scandinavia! In fairness, I remain a huge fan of my Dyneema Zpacks Duplex, but my experience has been in the US and I'm certain that I wouldn't even consider it for your neck of the woods! What do you use? I recently bought a Hilleberg Akto, but have not yet accrued much experience with it.
Great video. Very valid points. I stack rocks on my Duplex stakes in wind or hard ground all the time. Not being able to do that on the Xmid without risk of damage is a huge negative.
Another point against the Xmid is its poor in side winds. The narrow peak causes any wind hitting the sides to collapse them.
As for zippers-I’ve had my Duplex in 60mph gusts and never felt the need for zippers. The toggle held perfectly. Zippers are failure points.
Thanks for chiming in! Yeah I don't hate the Durston or think it's bad for everything, I just found it to be too much of a hassle too regularly. There are some enticing points to it, but for the most part I really value to simplicity and versatility of my Duplex.
And man 60mph gusts is NUTS!! I'm sure that must have been BRUTAL!! 😭😱😫
@@travelinbeat I agree, Xmid has its merits and it’s great to see tent makers competing to make the best tent possible. Dan Durston and Henry Shires at Tarptent are really moving the industry in the right direction with their designs.
no sleep was had those nights. 😂. But tent held up!
@@wolfeadventures Thanks for saying we're moving the industry in the right direction :) For rocks, we include a bundle of cord with the X-Mid Pro tents and recommend putting on longer lines if you want to tie off to rocks. It's quick to swap on longer lines. For side gusts, we do have side panel guyouts that help quite a bit.
Great to hear from you.Good review. A small tent footprint is critical for me. It allows a lot more campsite flexibility and minimizes energy expenditure looking for an adequate tent site. I am considering getting a Z-packs one person.
My buddy, Halfmile on the CDT had a zpacks 1p and loved it! I also know my buddy, Birdman from the AT hiked with a Duplex but planned on switching down to the 1p as well. I could switch down at my height, but the tent works for me so I'll just keep rockin' with it!
Good to hear from you Beat, excellent discussion on the two tents. I still feel due to the "mostly" mild weather on the west coast, April through September, that a tarp and bivy are a great way to go on the PCT, super ultralight, tiny in the pack, and either will fit anywhere. A bivy is a great option if you like to walk until dark, throw it down anywhere climb in and crash out (Mountain Laurel Designs superlight solo bivy). Personally I cant sleep in a floorless tarp in Socal....rattle snakes...the combo works great for those that cant deal with a rattle snake visiting in the night. Look forward to additional vidoes.
Yes I can see that being a very rational decision through there. My inner east-coast hiker ways just love a tent!!I must say though, I am jealous of the views had by those who go without
Excellent.
I have the x mid pro 2 and don’t have any of the issues you have. Pitching is easy magnets are fine in fact they’re great. I found most of your negative comment quite petty. I find the way the doors open is far better not having to sit on it when you half in half out when cooking. To me it sounded like you had some incentive to “dis” the Durston. ??
So glad that you've had success with this tent! It's funny to me that you think I have some incentive to diss the Durston when I repeatedly commend the man in multiple previous comments and clearly state at the end of the video that I've received no commission or consideration from either brand. No sir / ma'am, I can assure you I would very much have preferred to love this tent but after just about 3 months living in it I reached a very different conclusion. I'm interested to hear more about your experience with this tent-- what surfaces have you camped on and in what conditions? Flat, grass, hilly, muddy, rocky, established, backcountry, rooty, manicured, competitive (other hikers around), windy, rainy, cold, etc? I've had many people comment that they've had positive experiences with this tent and while I am honestly very happy to hear it, I am always interested to know more about their usage. I'm pretty clear in this video that my assessment pertains only to thru-hiking the PCT / AT / CDT, and I never say categorically that this is a "bad" tent, because that's not how I feel. But what's been your usage?
Good video but too many ads
Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I think CZcams has just recently started really increasing their ads...
I agree about the footprint size of the durston and the short guy lines, makes its not a real back country tent. It is however it is a great product for the US market and the defined tent sites of the parks there.
Absolutely! I never call the Durston a "bad" tent, I don't feel that it is a bad tent, I think in the right situation and conditions, it would be a fine tent. My point is primarily that in my experience, those situations and conditions are exceedingly rare on a thru-hike of the Triple Crown trails, and that it is not the tent I would choose for a thru-hike of those trails. Obviously even with that said, I'm sure there are still people who love this tent dearly and have had nothing but success with it. They're not wrong, that just isn't my experience
I think you overestimate the shortcomings of the X-mid and underestimate the flaws of the Duplex. No tent is perfect and you have to be careful not to be too one-sided when reviewing on CZcams. I have had 11 different lightweight tents including an Altaplex and two different Lanshans (- 2 and 2 Pro). I don't think the Lanshans were easy to pitch at all. On the contrary! You also show yourself that you have to find two branches to get enough headroom. In addition, there are problems with the pole in the middle, the rainbow door, that gets dirty easily, the lack of ventilation at the top (which you apparently don't think has any effect, which is rubbish i.m.o.) and the stupid toggle on the door. There are also problems with the direction of the wind in relation to the doors - the wind often changes during the night. In addition, Dixie has shown a video where water flows into the tent.
I also don't understand that pitching the tent should be a problem. If you follow Dan Durston's latest video where you put 2 pegs at the short end and at the opposite end find the middle - so you have a perfect rectangle - the rest will take care of itself.
Besides - I wonder why ZPacks is in such a hurry to copy the X-Mid? 😜
Disclaimer: Dan D. doesn’t pay me for writing this - unfortunately! 😂
Thanks for this post! You're right that there are also design flaws in the Duplex, and it is a fair point that I don't get into detail on those flaws in this video. The thumbnail describes the video as "Why I Ditched Durston," but I do erroneously title the video as a comparison, and then in the intro describe how I will compare the tents. Watching the video, I can see how I give the impression that it is designed to be a comparison video, however when I shot it my goal was to explain why I made the switch back to my Duplex from the XMid Pro 2. A proper comparison video should include a more detailed breakdown of the flaws in both tents, however my goal was not to create a comparison video but an explanation of my switch. I confess that my delivery muddies my objective, and for this I'm sorry.
Regarding finding sticks for Duplex headroom (I use just one stick 99% of the time), I can say that I found this to be an issue exactly 3 times in 7,500mi+. I struggled to find an appropriate stick only in the Great Basin section of the Continental Divide Trail. Every other section of every other trail posed no challenges in finding a stick, where many section of each trail posed serious challenges in finding a plot adequate for the Xmid Pro 2.
I sense that there is a lot of personal preference in your comment-- from your assessment that the Duplex door gets dirty easily, or your disapproval of its toggle. In my experience, the door does not get dirty particularly easily, and while I have struggled periodically with the toggle, I still prefer it to a zipper, but this again all comes down to personal preference.
Regarding the difficulty in pitching, I have watched Dan's video, and while it was helpful, I have continued to struggle pitching on unlevel ground / rocky ground (to include not only visibly rocky ground, but ground with buried stones). I fully confess that perhaps I am just too sensitive to the specificity it requires, or perhaps too intellectually dense to understand it. In this video I sought only to explain my experience, my frustrations, and my decision to switch back to the Duplex.
@@travelinbeat okay - I disagree, but your explanation is accepted. But - it is not that the door gets dirty - it’s the rainbow zipper that often falls to the ground or to the dusty tentfloor.. 😉
I'd rather have a zipper any day vs those little toggels,......wind and rain, you will get wet in the duplex and that door is a terrible design. Look at Dixie's experience she had with her Duplex in wind and rain. Appreciate the vlog though and agree, the setup can be tricky because of the Xmid's design. Also the point about the lines, but you can extend them. Just my 2 cents :)
Fair points-- given expected rain / snow, and given no dust, perhaps the Durston would have an edge, and / or the zipper wouldn't be a nuisance. Dixie's experience with wind and weather was in Iceland. Iceland has radically different meteorology than any of the Triple Crown trails, and I wouldn't recommend either of these for those conditions (and I'm sure Dixie feels the same!)
@ciscokid. You are sooo right! 👍😄
@@travelinbeat That's a very valid point...
It's ok if you describe your experience with your version of the Xmid2pr then. - But this is of doubtable benefit for someone who has to decide today. Stronger magnets now, extending the guy lines is no rocket science, never heard of skinny pitch options?
For me it is a no-brainer: thumb down for this video.
I totally agree with you, Henning! X-Mid is the best tent ever. That’s probably why ZPacks are trying to copy it regarding the zip and the offset poles in their new versions..😅
I appreciate you weighing in! For the record, I believe Dan is using the same magnets, just doing one less layer of material over top of them. This in and of itself leads me to wonder why "extra" material was used initially if it wasn't necessary, and whether removing some of that material would have a noticeable affect on a) the strength of the magnetic hold, and b) the durability of the construction, given that he initially felt the extra material to be necessary.
You're right that extending guylines isn't difficult, and I carried cordage and a knife and could have taken this step and did not. I was concerned about the already-established exacting nature of this tent and whether the longer guylines would just exacerbate that difficulty.
I did not experiment very much with the skinny pitch, but it too was on my radar. I could, I suppose, have spent nearly $700 on this tent and then lived with all of the shortcomings, struggled with the pitch, adapted to its size by pitching only the skinny method, and then have never made a video expressing my frustrations, but I chose instead to calmly, and in a considered and measured tone, communicate what I did not like about this tent, particularly compared to a tent I love. I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, I tried very hard to avoid making broad and declarative statements and instead leaned on very specific observations.
If you have success with this tent, I say congratulations, and I'm happy for you, really and truly. I just felt a bit of an obligation, as a guy who videoed every day of hiking the Triple Crown, to share my experience and explain why I made the switch.
And for the record, NO ONE should buy either of these tents or any other tent on a snap decision (as in your "doubtable benefit for someone who has to decide today" analysis). I posted this video in mid-November -- pretty much the exact furthest I could get after one thru-hike season and before the next. Forgive my inclination to explain my frustrations to others who fret over spending this kind of money.
Excellent review! very thorough , Thank you!
Thanks, Becky!!
Sounds like grifty user error in regards to the Durston.
When it's windy, you rely on the angle YOU pitch the tent and the zipper to deflect the wind, not sure why you'd want your door open. Instead of blaming the tent, glue on some extra magnets instead of complain about something that can be easily fixed.
And short guylines? Are you so ultralight that you don't carry extra coordage and work around the problem? Wow, man.
I appreciate this comment! You're absolutely right that both tents require thought in order to pitch in windy conditions-- I cannot think of any tent I've ever seen that does not have this requirement.
Regarding the open door, in none of my hikes have I ever preferred closed vestibules unless crowds or weather have prohibited it.
You're absolutely right that I could have glued on extra magnets-- I do carry crazy glue in my first aid kit. I do not not carry magnets however, and with a 30lb (or even 10lb for that matter) pack, and without a car, procuring magnets would have been a challenge on trail (although admittedly, not an insurmountable one).
Short guylines, yes. I do carry extra cordage and always have. I have never called myself an ultralighter. However, I have repeatedly and explicitly claimed NOT to be one.
So you're perhaps right in spirit on these points-- I have most of what I needed to fix this brand new, nearly $700 tent, and I don't mind fixing gear (see my clips in getting to Ashland). But I'll admit, further, that I am a little too proud or cheap or whatever to be happy paying that kind of money for a tent with design errors which demand my intervention. For the record, I did modify the tent by installing loops for a clothesline-- a product I bought from Zpacks to reproduce a functionality which comes stock in the Duplex.
Let me share my exact quote from the main point of this video:
"The main reason why I switched from the Durston back to my Duplex: It wasn't so much the vents that don't really do anything, it wasn't the magnetic toggles that just come loose in any sort of wind, it wasn't even those little four inch stays at the four corners of the bathroom that wind up poking through the floor material and damaging the tent, the main reason why I switched fromthe Durston back to my Duplex was just the difficulty in pitching."
Regarding your suggestion that I'm a grifter, I see no reason to devolve to personal attack if you have superior points to make. I'd love to hear how many nights you spent in this tent and in what conditions.
I say explicitly at the end that the Duplex is a better tent for a thru-hike. I never call the Durston a bad tent. This is my experience after 1,200mi and I welcome a diversity of opinions, but I think you misunderstood me, so I wanted to clear up my position.
Hope this helps!
NO one talks but, Durston (X-Mid) cloned this tent from the Sierra Designs - High Route 3000 1P 🙂 this tent was released several years earlier than X-mid 🙂
Dang man, good call, I just looked up that tent and boy oh boy are there some VERY distinct similarities!!
I bought the XMid Pro 1 last February and couldn't set it up on the first pitch. If I can't set it up immediately, back it goes! I will continue to use my Duplex and Plex Solo-both great tents! Thanks for the comparison review.
😂
🤣🤣🤣
Honestly, this rationale is BEYOND reasonable!!! I may just adopt this perspective!!
@@travelinbeat How about a video on the best ease of use gear, i.e. stove, water filter, tent, quilt, etc. When I hike15-20 miles a day I don't want to mess around with gear-it's got to be easy!
@@joannemaass5068 I'm right there with you!! Good idea about a video, I'll give it some thought, thanks!
I had a Duplex before selling it and buying the XMid Pro2 - - Big mistake. I live in Scotland and do a lot of long distance hiking and have never had a problem with the Duplex...except for the lack of Zip issue. I used the XMid on the Skye trail and found it to be awful in medium/high wind. Also, and like you, because you have to set it up so carefully with the sides close to the ground, its almost impossible to avoid things touching it or rubbing against it in windy conditions. My tent actually ripped and i subsequently found a number of frayed edges on the bottom edge of the tent. I just couldnt trust it any longer and would never recommend it to any long distance hiker. I have now moved back to ZPacks and got the duplex zip, which i used on the Cape Wrath Trail and was absolutely brilliant. Its perfect for UK weather, solid in the wind, light to carry, easy to pitch and still big inside. In my opinion it is way, way better than the XMid.
Thank you for sharing your experience with these tents!! Scotland is on my list of potential hiking locations and for that reason I particularly appreciate your insights! I've also been eyeing a Hilleberg, which should be able to perform in the higher winds and more consistent precipitation of not only Scotland, but some of the other places on my list too
I must say that I'm a little surprised to hear such trivial complains from a "Triple Crowner".; I thought those guys were a bit more resilient. Short guy-lines shouldn't stump you dude.
Thanks for your input! I will try harder to impress you in the future!
I got a Telya buddy you have way more experience than I do but all of these sound like complete Hawaii dog problems, I think there’s a cloud in the sky but remember you’re in Hawaii
I appreciate this simile, I hadn't heard it before and enjoy the image. I understand that these are all kind of nit-picky issues, but honestly after hiking all day every day, it's important to me that camp goes up easy and without much issue. I had an experience at 10,500ft where a thunderstorm was rolling in after we had hiked 14mi over 11hr through the snow (see my PCT Day 70 video: czcams.com/video/Dd1LI1Pe_RI/video.htmlsi=2CXVcA_Ibc28Ixop ). All I wanted in that situation was a shelter I could quickly throw up without issue but this tent insists upon all four corners being level plus a multitude of other minutiae. I've found that just about everything in thru-hiking needs early attention-- be it a speck of sand in the cuff of your sock or a tent that demands too much specificity. This tent, for me and in my experience, is just too persnickity to recommend for the purpose of a thru-hike.
Yes, anything perceived as anything but glowing on Durston gear can lead to contentousness. I think Dan is classy enough to try to stay out of it.
Yeah it's really weird, I can't think of any other brand or product that has such vocal advocacy!
Well said. Factual, not emotional. Functionality is everything! Thanks and...pops
Thanks, Pops, glad you appreciate this approach!
Nerd
Hater 😉
preach it brother