Waldorf KB37 and Behringer System 100
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2020
- Here's a brief look at the Waldorf KB37 eurorack keyboard and the new System 100 modules from Behringer.
For more information check out the post on my SoundMangling website here: www.soundmangling.com/2020/08... - Hudba
Even if i don't have the same synth, i can understand more about modular eurorack and sound synthesis Thanks for the accurate videos
That's a very nice instrument, and looks like a lot of fun to work with. Thanks for the inspiration.
Yet another great video Tim thanks
This is such a great idea. I like the self-contained modular system. And most these Behringer modules actually sound great!
Dude, I've been wanting that Waldorf tool for a while. I wanted to do exactly what you did, but with Behringer's System 55. You're making me consider their System 100 instead. THANK you for doing this. SUBSCRIBED
Or go for quality and durability and get some AJH stuff instead..you won't regret it.
Those soft grey modules inside the white keyboard are beautiful ! They seems to have been designed for each other... by the way, I really like the color grading of your videos, with the high black level, it’s very peaceful. I have enough of those hardly contrasted videos, or burned highlights, on purpose. Thanks you for that ! (And the music :)
This clip is highly inspirational and entertaining. I should bite the bullet and get a decent case and start buying modules every month.
I like the Waldorf, plus that System 100m sounds sooo good!
Sounds great, please Made more of this. ITS my interest this Keyboard and this modules greetings from Berlin
The new arp 2500 clone modules would look great in it...
I’ve felt the same, thought it was just too much money for what it is. But I do like the idea of the system 100 modules in it. You have give me something to think about Tim, it’s becoming a habit now haha, great vid👍
Beautiful job, Dude 😊
Yeah I went ahead and bought a kb37 yesterday too! I think these will become classics since they’re now discontinued. Now will start the Expensive journey of filling her up with modules :-) Great video.
Very impressive... Thanks for the video..
Wow. Really good idea. Thumbs up.
Such a fantastic idea parring these module with a keyboard/rack like that. I didn't even know that such thing existed. Like you said it's a little pricy but it looks really pristine and is very well thought through.
yeah Behringer needs to clone it
I've always wanted one of these as well, i'm really surprised no other manufacturer has really taken up the idea in a cheaper form or even larger format you could have 6U or 9U controller.
Looks and sounds great
Hello Tim. Love your videos. This, and some other videos, inspired me to order the Waldorf KB37 (all the way from Thomann to the US due to the unit being out of production, and out of stock everywhere else!). However, I am confused by a constraint that Waldorf lists vs what I see in your video. Waldorf says the rightmost 15hp module depth is constrained to 25mm, yet you appear to have a 44mm deep module (if I can believe Modular Grid) on that side. I think that Make Noise blank is 10hp and looks like you have 2hp open the right of it, but maybe I’m wrong.
Maybe you were just barely able to squeeze that 150 module in at the right side, or maybe you used a hammer ;-). Can you shed some light on this? Thanks!
Looking forward to a system 100 video.
Great video just picked up one myself. So you feel having a sequencer module in the rack is not needed having the arp? I have the morphogene from make noise and the plonk from intelligel. Any recommendations as what other units would pair well. Thanks again for you videos love the content.
I’m contemplating on this 😀
Also looking at the moog matriarch
Do you know if there are any issues Tim?
loving the videos by the way ❤️
Love the KB37! Just picked one up a few weeks ago as they seem to be discounted a bit in most places. Perhaps because they didn't sell very well at the original price, or maybe they are discontinued?
Like you, I was always interested in this, but the price was a bit steep. Having had it for a little while now though, I would say it is absolutely worth the RRP. You get a quality enclosure with a big power supply, and eurorack cases are expensive enough on their own without the quality keyboard, MIDI to CV controllers, clock source, arp and an output module! An absolute bargain in eurorack land.
congrats on one million views ;D
dude you are the best
Sounds great - thanks for the demo Tim. The modules seem to flex a lot in their chassis when you push plugs in though....is everything secured ok or is the frame a bit flimsy?
Yes there is a bit of movement visible in the video, they're just flexing a little in the centre. I was surprised to see it in the video because in use I had not noticed it at all.
Those Roland modules sound excellent, and that Waldorf enclosure is quality. Not really seen any other videos go into it in depth, nice one : )
yep, thought the same
@@skyreadersociety6183 Behringer Modules*
Behringer Roland modules! :-)
Great video, thanks for sharing. Does anyone know how many power connectors are in this case?
I love the detuning :p
damn you. I went and bought one immediately.
Thank you Brother
Nice video; thank you!. Not sure why the lower half of the modules moves when patching: do the S100m modules not fit flush with the lower mounting? This is a very nice setup for duophonic / stereo; someone needs to make a 49-key or 61-key version of the KB with more space for modules.. and with more control over polyphonic allocation of 4x voices to CV/gate outputs from keyboard.
There's just a bit of flex, for some reason it looks a lot worse on video than it is in real life
If a person was just a little handy, they could build a keyboard setup very much like this (sans some of the bells and whistles) for far less than the price that these go for new. If you just need a case and controller for your euro rack modules it can be done quite cheaply. Here in the states, and I’m sure in the UK too, you can get 3 or 4 octave midi controllers any day of the week from private parties for $40 - $60. Throwing together a euro rack power supply, another $40 - $60. The case can be fabricated out of wood, however many people now have access to a 3D printer which would be great for the end apps of the rig. The end result might not be as polished as one of these, but it would certainly be functional, and the money saved could be used for other things… like more modules.
Thanks for this excellent video.
I have a KB37 and it is great. I use it with CV/gate to control modules and also use the midi out to play desktop synths. Very flexible, and the key-bed is high quality.
One word of caution: from their website, it appears that Waldorf might have recently changed the spec of the KB37, and it no longer seems to have the arpeggiator. If that is correct, it is a real shame, because the arp is superb and very useful. So you might consider a second-hand unit better than a brand new one.
Thanks for the heads up!
I hope you're on commission from Behringer..... I've had a Neutron for a couple of years, which I love, and purely on the back of your videos I have the 112, 121, 130,140,150, 173 modules and a eurorack go case arriving this next week. A good salesman is one who can sell you a product without you realising that they have just sold you something :-) Keep up the great videos!
I never knew this keyboard/enclosure existed. Ebay here I come!
I'm about to list one in the UK!
What's the full list of modules in there Tim?
I worked it out. Looks like 112, 121, 130, 173, 140, 150. Given prices on DV247 that's 531ukp. Oof! Damn you Uli, that is tempting ...
Having owned over a dozen of the original system 100m modules, even with CZcams compression, these sound pretty close. Ironically the originals i had (bought from ebay when they were still cheap enough to be a good buy, complete with The Synthesizer Manuals that roland made), didn't have tuning issues at all, and i used a kenton pro interface (the one that allowed up to 4 voices) for midi to cv.
The keyboard enclosure looks useful, but i wish it came in a larger version, not just for a longer playing range, but also to provide more rackspace to create the complex patches. Let's hope someone (maybe behringer) makes a 49 and 61 key version. Roland themselves made a polyphonic keyboard called the 184, which i also had. It had the jupiter 4's arpeggiator built in.
S R DHAIN Thanks a lot for that feedback on tuning. I have raised a support ticket with Behringer to see what feedback they can provide on the 112. Will give an update once I hear from them. But as to the KB37, yes a bigger one with more octaves and more HP would be a really great idea 👍
@@TimShoebridge Pleasure. Hope it gets resolved for you 👍
The original 100m modules are now over 40 years old in some instances & having used them a lot over the years in various configurations, i can say with confidence that they're very solid on tuning. Roland went the extra mile on those in that respect. I think they were also one of the last to manufacture modular systems; the 100m's were made from 1979 & discontinued in 1984.
The Waldorf KB37 has been discontinued, but the Cre8audio NiftyKEYZ is now available as an alternative.
I use it with the Roland System 500, Verbos multiple and Befaco spring reverb. I bought all items used except for the last two. Too bad midi clock out is on by default and the power supply on the right takes up so much space that deep modules can't be placed there. On the other hand, the keyboard action and the midi to CV are great. As a keyboard player, I bought this configuration for the same reason.
P.E. Courant yes the power supply depth is a pain!
The problem with the 112 Dual VCO tuning is due to Behringer not incorporating proper temperature compensation in the exponential convertors of the VCOs. The scaling in the Behringer 112 oscillators drift with temperature, so their CV inputs no longer conform to exactly 1.000V per octave any more. Small changes in tuning are tolerable, but changes in scaling are almost impossible to deal with as a musician. In other words, your octaves are no longer octaves any more. Although there are trimmers on the back of the module to set scaling, these will only work at one specific temperature. So it's not that the unit has to warm up to be used, but that the air temperature surrounding the module has to be the same as it was in the factory before it can play in tune. It is possible to correct this fault if you're handy with a soldering iron but it is not an easy modification. The Roland 100M 112 module did incorporate temperature compensation and was very stable.
I have been in touch with Behringer about the scaling issue and I think there is some good news coming. I will be putting out a video specifically on the 112 once I have all the details, hopefully in a week or possibly two....
Unless they're going to give us a redesigned module in its place, I'm really not sure how they're going to fix this one. It's a significant design blunder.
Would be awesome to get an update from Behringer on this issue, im really interested in these modules but this is holding me back
@@TimShoebridge looking forward to hearing about it!
Its a school boy error taking the heated ua726 and replacing with the 3046 chip, they forgot to add in the tempco. They keep using the 3046 rather than a matched transistor pair and hft circuit. There is alot of pressure to get the circuits completed, without the time to rework into smd successfully.
Have you ever played the late 70s, Roland SH2 monosynth, Tim? And if so, do the Behringer System 100 modules have a similar sound? Sh2's are now going for well over 1K and I wondered if your setup here might be a better, more flexible solution. Cheers
Hi, I played an SH9 a long time ago but don't own one so I wouldn't like to comment as to similarities on sound just in case I mislead anyone.
@@TimShoebridge Fair enough. Me too. The Sh-09 was my first synth when I was a kid. Enjoy your vids. Cheers
What is the black panel on the far right of the modules ?
It's just a blanking plate to cover up an empty space (and keep my fingers away from the power supply!)
Looks nice and sound is nice but the wires are nothing for me . Looking forward for the Wave 2.2 (2.3) remake .
What reverb was used?
His Madness Inc. Lexicon, too much reverb for what I was playing but I couldn’t tell at the time, had the monitors down low while recording my voice :(
@@TimShoebridge Thanks. I thought it sounded lovely. Another great video Tim. Wouldn't have minded it to have been longer ;-)
This video is going to cost me money. I have a kb37 already... after playing with one in store at Andertons incidentally... this setup could be perfect if it’s different enough from my Sub37!?
hopefully the keybed on this KB37 is better than the one on my Sub37 !
666JGNotts it’s a Fatar TP9 and I think it’s feels great!
❤
can you make a Poly synth out of eurorack modules & the Waldorf KB37
I don't think there's enough room for the number of modules you'd need and it only has polyphonic MIDI not polyphonic CV. There's only two pitch CVs
@@jimharris6389 ok thanks man. I'd really like to make a simple modular poly synth, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I bought the Moog Matriarch, & I love it,, but it's not a poly synth
@@justinupchurch1773 Matriarch's a great synth but no not poly. The Eurorack sub-forum over at Muffwiggler.com is super helpful. I'd head over there.
@@jimharris6389 ok cool, I'll check it out.. thanks!
Justin Upchurch Doepfer make a number of modules specifically designed for poly use. Check out their website...
Are those oscillators mono?
Each VCO has a mono output but of course you can combine multiple VCO's using a stereo mixer module and create whatever stereo or surround mixes you want.
@@TimShoebridge so the VCO is not stereo? Not a dual VCO and not stereo. The mixer is stereo? The mixer takes the mono input and makes a stereo output? If so then they are not true stereo.
I had some Roland/Malekko System 500 modules (sounded great) but it bugged me I couldn't play it like a keyboard so I bought a KB37 (amazing bit of kit, you're not wrong) and stuffed them in there only I realised Eurorack kind of bugged me because it was small and fiddly and all the cables got in the way so ... I sold the lot and bought a vintage Roland SH09 and a vintage Roland SH2. Five oscillators if you include the subs! It's a less versatile setup but it's got tone for days. Those Behringer modules sound very nice though.
I feel the same way, modular often feels like trying to operate miniature controls at the bottom of a bowl of spaghetti ! Yes those SH synths sounds incredible. I constantly lust after an SH-5, if one ever comes up on eBay I ask my girlfriend to change my password for the next month as a precaution.
@@TimShoebridge Haha! Yes the SH5 is the prize for sure. KB37 plus those B modules sounds great so far. Look forward to the longer vid.
@@TimShoebridge do not look at this, I repeat do not look at this!
reverb.com/p/roland-sh-5
@@TimShoebridge Hi Tim never played the SH-5 but I have the Roland system 500 505 and it is a great filter
I have the Behringer modules excpt the oscillators as I bought the system 500 dual OSC over a year ago (waited for the Behringer stuff)
The dual filter is amazing (I had a few sys 100ms but sold them) but the 505 is really special
Maybe drop in a 505 into the kb37 and no need to reset your ebay password lol
@@TimShoebridge probably don't need to mention there is a System 500 module with the SH-5 filter. And it is high on my list..
This is a cool setup but for the price I think a moog granmother would be more attractive to me.
What’s Roughly....the cost of these parts all8;?.
I can tell you what the prices are in UK pounds if that helps. The Waldorf KB37 is currently selling for about £550, it used to be quite a lot higher but has come down recently. The Behringer system 100 modules vary in price depending on their complexity: The most expensive are the dual VCO module, dual VCF module, dual VCA module and dual EG+LFO module, they are the core of the system and cost just under £100 each. Bear in mind that you get two circuits in one on those modules which makes them incredibly good value for money. The other two are utility modules, around £75 each I think. So for all six modules that's around £550.
Modular - nightmare.
(I get way enough potential from regular synths!)
Yeah me too I’m a regular simple synth man 🤖
I want a few modules to run my semi modular stuff through. Was thinking about building something around 48HP but am not really Into the idea of a huge eurorack set up
I bought a few modules to run my semi modular stuff through and a month later now have a 6U 84HP case. Eurorack will never replace my synths but it is fucking fun lol
Sweet not sure about £500+ for the waldorf though
$1100 USD after taxes in my state the US :(
There seems to be a whole lot of chassis flex when you're patching (e.g. starting at 12:00)
From pix, it looks like the module mounting rails are just flat stock and probably should have been "L" or "U" shaped to avoid the rail flex.
Yes it is a bit flexy but mine is far from a worrying amount. I used far worse euro cases.
these things are virtually unobtanium now. Cre8audio Keyz has a different design, perhaps to save on production costs.
Ello guvna
I love the sound and of course love the look, but modular(patching) just seems like eating crabs to me(see 10:13) Looking at my synth from the inside out. Why eat crabs when you can have a nice seafood buffet setup in front of you.
“🤔...Hmmm I think I have a little Oscillator at -1(turns knob), throw in some LFO on the pitch (turns knob), oh yeah and a little bit of that filter, but open just a bit-I’m on a high frequency diet(turns knob). And lastly, gimme some of that sweet Resonance sauce(turns knob). Yum!!
Piano keyboards as controllers for synths are wrong imo.
tim, you stold my idea
That is like to put a volkswagen engine in a mercedes benz
The System 100m is more like a Lexus.
@@hiemehbarron9768 the original yeah, the beheringer is like hyandai
and I say volkswagen cause of Ulis hehe
I just don't understand one thing: why would I need something like this that is basically mono synth when instruments were in general meant to be played poly (with the exception of brass), especially anything that derived from piano like structures?
Any synth sound progression that can only be played monophonic drives me absolutely insane.
It's like having a guitar that only has one string.
I ain't going uhh and ahh over these things just because synth manufacturers and other consumers say so...
I understand that first succesful synths like Moog or others were monophonic but that's like what - 50, 60 years back...?
I simply don't get it that at this time and age things like this monosyth are even used by musicians. For me, it's even more strange they actually go bananas about them and spend any amount of money to get these things - and rave about them....
There is not even much to like about the sounds coming out of this particular synth, unless the better sound was hidden from us here.
Thin, pretty much very generic, colorless; uninteresting sound.
I am a keyboard guy but I like beefy, strong, dynamic sound that really grabs you by the balls and kicks your brain to create something with it.
So many synths out there are just deaf, colorless and without any personality whatsoever.
(But they have nice enclosures - wow)
I have always imagined that really good synth sound should be as thick, dynamic and resonant as Ritchie Blackmoore's guitar.
Or like the biggest and baddest Steinway concert piano - something to that effect that is really difficult to describe.
Where 10 fingers can play 10 or even more notes at the same time and blow the stage off not with the decibel number but with their dynamic power that is so much sought after in both acoustic and electric music world.
Moog is probably closest of all to this concept but even then, how many of poly synths did they make in 50 years?
I have yet to test and hear MOOG ONE in real settings. I laid my hands on one at Sweetwater store up in Fort Wayne but sadly, it was hooked up to probably cheapest, worst set of monitors I have ever seen, so after playing a couple of patches, I gave up.
85 hundred bucks equipment hooked up to $50.00 monitors.
Good selling strategy, Sweetwater.
Anyway, that's my rant for today.
definitely a keyboard guy lol
@@AC-ol9lp you bet. Received formal piano education, played in few bands, was programming some music on synths when programming was still in diapers - painstaking stuff because of heavy technology limitations back then. Didn't like monosynths then, hate them now.
I am a pro pianist, and I love mono synths. To each his own!