Justice League vs. The Snyder Cut - Filmmaking Comparison
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Comparing Zach Snyder's Justice League and the original Theatrical Cut finished by Joss Whedon provides a unique opportunity to look at exactly how filmmaking decisions- how a film is shot, colored, edited, written, and directed dramatically impacts how we perceive the plot it contains.
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Chapters:
00:00 Dark vs Light
01:07 Part 1 - Introduction and Context
02:55 Part 2 - The Tale of Two Tones
08:20 Part 3 - Pacing and Running Time
13:10 Part 3.5 - A Brief Aside About Editing
14:14 Part 4 - Story, Characters, and Stakes
22:01 Epilogue - Bad Re-Shoots and Additions - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Original was so forgettable to me that watching Snyder cut actually felt like a new movie.
Yeah, I still didn’t think it was some crazy masterpiece or whatever and there was times it dragged. But it felt like it had actual purpose and I didn’t want to stop watching it
Exactly. Thank God I don't remember shit from that movie.
It was. He developed the characters. Were not watching the second installment of Serenity this time around. Snyder adds levity. He returned with a fresh set of eyes. That's what it really needed. Wonder Woman is a antihero in the comics. I'd take Snyder's perspective as a happy medium over Whedon's brain fart in a heartbeat. She can't be bothered by comic relief.
@@sharinngan5084 That's the point. Whedon just fondled the film like an incel allowed to get some touch by an indecisive yet desperate wallflower girl at a high school dance. 😆
Just all thumbs.
This comment is what I’ve been looking for.
Snyder's looks like a movie, whereas Whedon's looks like a CW Show.
Whedon's version is a parody and, forgive me, a piece of $hit. That’s right! A. Piece. Of. SHITE! Snyder Cut is one of the best movies I have ever seen. And I have watched billions n trillions of movies.
exactly.
Lmao
@@zaha352 lmao
With all due respect, i think calling Josstice League a CW show is an insult to CW show
The very fact that there are 2 versions of the same movie allows for so much case study into film making. Its a great opportunity.
Yes bro
you're right!
The only case study you can do is to see why both failed in there own way
@Silver Fox Sports so why are they rebooting the timeline to start over
@@XgoodbyeX Because of some dumb corporate decisions by Warner
What’s interesting is the various different runtimes this film went through:
- 3h 40m was the version the WB execs saw
- 3h 20m from a photo Zach shared of JL film reels (likely his would be Ultimate Edition)
- Studio mandated it to be shortened (implying around 2h 30m)
- Zach leaves due to unfortunate circumstances and they get Whedon to make it 2hs.
- HBO Max get involved years later and say “not the 3h 40m version you trimmed, give us all 4hs”.
Crazy what this movie (and Zach & Deborah) went through, but it’s nice we all finally got this in the end
If only they gave us a 3 hours version of this DC would be in better hands
Actually the ‘film reel photo’ version was 3:34 (214 minutes on the reel) and in line with the 3:40 version execs would’ve screened. Unless I’m completely mistaken.
If you remove the credits and the Knightmare scene from the epilogue, it does get things down close to that 3:34 mark. I was going to also exclude the Martian Manhunter scene that ends the film but there was an original version shot and scrapped that involved a couple of alien Green Lanterns. I don’t know if that was ultimately going to be cut from the original Snyder version but if so, that gets things very close to 3:34.
Apparently there were several edits by Snyder before he left that got the film under 3 hours (and I believe as low as 2:30).
Apparently
tbh i wouldve prefered a cut that was 3hrs 30mins. lil fluff throughout couldve been cut and made the film tighter
@@peterp2153 The photo he shared on his social media account (Viro I believe) I took a screenshot of and it was sub 3h 30min
@@swap9649 Agreed, there’s definitely a decent amount that can be trimmed down (and even removed)
I really enjoyed Cyborg giving that woman the money.
@@user-bl1zt9xg7f you mean like your marvel movies making lameass jokes every minute? Okay.
Yea but wasn’t he standing a little close lol
@@thepinkjournalrehearsalpro5390 I'll give you that
@@user-bl1zt9xg7f to each his/her own
It was a sweet moment. And showed that he does have a good heart and sees the potential of what he can do with his powers. The good that comes out of it.
The colour grade on Whedon's version looks like a Gillette ad. Look at the shot of bruce on the plane, its straight out of an ad
The color grade is horrible. The Superman suit is actually good but Whedon's color grading makes the suit looks like shit (visible in CGI mustached Supes opening scene & race between Supes & Flash)
Look at the behind the scenes of JL, the Superman suit looks great.
So true
😂😂
The lighting is flat af too
TV Director
3:21 in the Snyder Cut the theme actually fits Arthur's personality trying to compensate his emotional weakness whereas in the Whedon Cut he just looks like Lobo
This comment aged well
Because he is Lobo.
tbh i like both scenes. they paint different pictures for the character of arthur but both are effective in what they are trying to accomplish. the synder version definitely fits this film better though.
Fun fact, he really wants to be Lobo
Actually I love the "cyborg discovering his power" scene, that little smile in the end of that scene is a lot emotional
God, that iPhone intro with the kids...I forgot how much it made me cringe.
And they straightly copied it from Spiderman Homecoming opening when Peter recorded himself in Germany airport which came out few months before Josstice League!
I literally never made it past that and never went back until Zack released his cut 👏🏾👌🏾🙌🏾👑
The scene was ok, the problem was Henry's face
@@Jose-se9pu No the dialogue was still bad.
@@Jose-se9pu ,?,fzd,,!!
I know BVS has a bad rep, but the opening scene with Bruce racing to Wayne towers amid Superman & Zod's destruction of Metropolis, was a great example of using pedestrian/ human perspective to make things more relatable or immediate.
And detractors say that these versions of the characters don't have any humanization, bs
I really enjoyed BVS
@@biggles258 me too, its a pity the world doesn't see it that way
@@joemubusisi5638 the extended cut is a genuinely great movie!
That scene is fantastic
This is interesting, because I was blown away by how the Snyder cut was literally like watching a different film. I couldn't understand how it was so much better with what I assume to be nuanced edits. A very comfortable and entertaining watch for a 4 hour film.
DC's selling point compared to marvel is how dark and gritty it is. It's what the universe what written on, and it's a theme it pulls off very well. Not everything needs to be family friendly.
Cases in point: Neal Adams' Batman versus John Romita's Spider-Man, or the art of John Buscema versus the more reserved and mature art of George Perez from the same era. Or, I don't know, one has Rocket Raccoon and Howard the Duck, and the other has Swamp Thing. Not to say that Marvel isn't obviously dark quite often, especially in the comics, but the foundations and the persistence of themes are different.
dark and gritty comes off as cringe most of the time
@@XgoodbyeX Quite the opposite actually. Cracking lame jokes while people are dying in a city seems more cringe(family friendly)
@@A93ken the characters are so plain feels like they have been dumbed down to constantly make stupid mistakes
@@XgoodbyeX quite the opposite
The Joker scene wasn't part of Snyder's original plan, he wanted to add it now due to the fact that he knows he won't be doing any more of these DC films. It's basically just there to give us a taste of what could have been in future installments. I think most of the "Epilogue" part of the film is there for that purpose. Jared Leto wasn't even paid for this role, he did it out of respect for Snyder and to help show the world what Snyder had planned. Sadly, we'll now never see these films.
The movie ends when silas' tape monologue ends. The rest is just MCU-style post credits scenes.
@@REDDAWNproject yeah because mcu invented post credit scenes🤦♂️
Who knows. Snyder's epic vision works well for streaming. I think that's why this was so successful. Maybe they will allow him to finish his vision and have his own universe on HBO Max.
@@CC-dm3iy never said they did. but post-credit scenes teasing multiple movies and directions for superhero films are pretty commonly associated with the MCU.
Have faith. #RestoreTheSnyderverse
The opening death of Superman with his scream heard around the world was powerful to me.
The God is dead
The bell has rung
Actual this opening really confused me, but after watching this comparison I'm going to have to watch the Snyder cut again
@@ShirazEsat it means that everyone around the world heard superman’s dying cry. basically means that the “God” who was being talked about for years actually died and it’s a huge moment in the world
@Lujack Shaw lol when was that story created? I heard there’s one where he moves a black hole. Sneezing and destroying a GALAXY is a bit overpowered lmfao. His strength has to be the most inconsistent in all comics. With all that power and we see him grunt or grimace to pick up a big rock or a plane or whatever. Seems like he can do any physical feat but HAS to grunt no matter the weight.
I thought it was really dumb tbh. I get the metaphor but Snyder over kills it
I just love that despite the failure of the Josstice League, the cast and team never lost faith in Zack and even turning up voluntarily during the pandemic period, to help shoot scenes and complete his vision and give his Cut the Justice it deserves (pun intended) despite disagreements with the studio and not being paid big bucks.
Everybody that worked on the movie knows what a masterpiece it was and defended Zack's original cut till the end and this movie being released for everyone was a true Symbol of Unity between the Zack Snyder, his team, the Justice League and the Fans.
Henry cavill didnt turn up, hence Snyder having to reuse shots from BVS and MOS
LOL! The Snyder Cut is everything but a Masterpiece. More like a 4 hour music video with no substance.
@@jokerfleckcast3196 Yeah but he was busy with a lot off stuff and it was also the pandemic going on and he was in the UK at the time so flying to the US was limiting to him. And they really wanted to avoid mustachegate again.
That's why they got rid of zack lol
I call it a waste of money dc films aren't even for dc fans anymore it's for action fans who don't understand good story telling
I love the scene where Cyborg fills the struggling mother's bank account with a few hundred thousand dollars
even bruce wayne having more shadows on his face makes ALL the difference.
yes
and him not being a complete alcoholic at the time of filming certainly helps the look
dude even a hairstyle too...Wheadon trying to make Iron man copy ...Snyder Bruce wayne
Just shoot it in chrome filter, better yet, don't take the cap off the camera. ALL BLACK. GRITTY. DARK.
Real talk
I watched the movie with my mom without telling her it was a 4 hour long movie and she didn't even fall asleep, she didn't complain. She wanted to see more!
That's a cool mom.
Bro my mama mind was blown watching this masterpiece
i really like the zach synder version, was much much better. made a lot more sense - the cut up version was so confusing it made it un-watchable.
My mum watched it TWICE, and she's not even a fan of superhero movies at all
Yes...snyder made us want to watch more...
8:20 - I really liked how the opening shots in the Snyder Cut were longer and able to breathe, and it's already telling us exactly what is happening rather than just leaving us to guess the context of the scene as it jumps right into the action sequences. I also liked how different WW felt like as a character in that instance. The scene actually looks like it's setting up a character instead of just showing off cool effects or something like that.
I loved the video and the way you strictly approach the cinematographic theme. Just one thing... I would NEVER call Whedon's collage "the original".
It literally is by definition the original though
@@crazyinsanepenguin I wouldn't call it original. Original was what was recorded first, and Whedon created his own collage of that original material with reshots that he recorded.
@@luthorpcait's the originally released film
@@luthorpcayou are partially right, but Whedon’s version was released as the original first Justice League; there is a reason why Snyder’s version is called Snyder Cut
For purposes of the discussion, ‘original’ is fine. Usually, I just refer to it as the theatrical version.
The saturation is definitely part of the reason the original version looks fake. 3d artists know about the effect it can have, especially on bad renders.
in addition it made the corn fields look like plastic 22:16
I agree like these movie who heavily depend on over use of green screens favour dark settings to hide minute flaws.
It's even avident around Thanos, most of his sceans are dark lit.
ZSJL is the original.
The t-rex in Jurassic Park still looks great today precisely because of the dark rainy lighting. It desn't help that a lot of the original Snyder stuff was shot with that expectation of dark lighting in mind.
Snyder shoots his films on set with his own color grading in mind. That's why even if you tweak it off his style,it's gonna look odd
I'm almost glad the whole original vs snyder cut thing happened, because it has provided us with one of the best case studies of just how different two different tellings of the same story can be, how much a different directorial vision and edit can radically change even the most innocuous of scenes
It really doesn't no matter how many clowns say it
@callmecatalyst Get a grip
I disagree because Whedons version is still very much Snyders version just with much less run-time allowed. I feel for that kind if analyse Whedon needed to have been given the chance to reshoot so much of the movie that he would have been well over the point where Directors Guild rules would have seen him and not ZS get the director credit (Whedon after all got $25mill to do the reshoots and reedit, ZS got $70mill to finish his cut). A better example would actually be if the Lord and Miller version of Solo came out as Ron Howard refilmed something like 85% of the film using almost the exact same script. That would really highlight what two different people would produce rather than here where we have Whedon basically just editing ZS content around studio mandates some of which were pretty extreme, for example while ZS film is way too long even when focusing on the ones introduced in solo movies already the studio dictated run-time of whedons is way too short, its 23 mins shorter than Avengers where we have already had the majority of the main characters introduced to us over atleast 1 and in some cases 2 films, IMHO there is a pretty good Justice League film in there in between the length of the theatrical cut and ZS's cut
but at what cost😭😭😭
Ayer Cut vs the studio cut wouldn’t be different
The Knightmare scene with the Joker was used to expand the story arc past just one or two films--both , in past and future. It gave great depth of how Batman and Joker's individual character arcs brought them together for an unlikely alliance. But, it also highlights the fears of Bruce (because afterall, it is a dream): Him actually working with the Joker, uncontrollable alien Superman, him being responsible for Robin's death. To me, the scene was very perfect and very necessary
5:13 That one scene where Barry Allen as ‘The Flash’ landed on Diana as Wonder Woman on her strong breasts.
That one part was *FILLER*
It's more like whedon's personal fetish. It's also in avengers 2 and some of his TV shows. It's very much a pattern
The scene with Alfred in the tea made me feel that Alfred loves doing what he does and he does it with class and prestige
Very subtle scene but added depth 2 his character
The whole Snyder's Cut felt like reading a comic book. If you read comics you know that they are filled with scenes like the WW/Alfred tea scene or the Cyborg helping a stranger woman scene.
Yes that's it! The Snyder cut felt like I'm reading a graphic novel where the original felt like an episode in a TV show.
Good comics.
There are a lot comics, especially superhero comics, which have a pacing that is way too fast for my taste.
Two sides or even two panels are sometimes intended to describe an important plotpoint or relationship.
That of course depends on how you like it, what age group the story is aimed at and for example whether you are more used to reading novels but I often think to myself "Come on! Where are the emotions? Create characters and not just a plot . "
yeah, I've always said that Snyder nails comics in movies like nobody else. Love his style in direction
Ye it did..but that wasn't a good thing in my book... nearly every shot in the snyder cut felt like it could be a comic panel...
But..alot..was just style over substance...a good example of this is supermans death scream at the start... screaming when his whole chest got pierced...good shot..but doesn't really make sense...the movie looks good but you just can't think about it.
No, it doesn't, at all. Comic book pacing is much quicker because the stories are much shorter. Have you ever read a comic book? They aren't novels, people dont just blather on for pages. Even just two paragraphs is pushing it one page... plus, all of your praise is the literal opposite intention of Alan Moore with Watchmen. Snyder doesnt understand the source material whatsoever for anything he makes. Go re-watch Sucker Punch and say anything positive other then "well, the CGI looks good"...
Its been a very long time since I had seen such a brilliant video. Straight from the accurate analysis to the appropriate analogies through the editing. Superb effort man! True creator.
i dont know if this was intentional but i love how you parallel the differences in tone with how you film YOURSELF talking. one version has a monochrome shirt with you almost in the middle, right behind the light so it feels darker; the other version has a coloured shirt with you on the side of the frame with other things in the shot that make it feel more open, and the lighting source to the side which makes it feel brighter.
i see u.
The messed up part is that the film is still very upbeat & hopeful. This is probably Snyder's most lighthearted movie yet. Even the jokes are better in this version.
The whole point of Justice League is that Superman’s heroic sacrifice against Doomsday inspires Batman and the other heroes to be better; igniting a lighter, more hopeful tone.
And if you take out the human blood splatter and f bombs this would still have made it to pg 13.
This movie is probably the most family friendly R-rated movie ever
@@internetdinosaur8810 yeah honestly it’s a hard PG-13 like the animated DC movies
I think Man of Steel's a close second.
It's pretty serious and intense, but not *dark* .
The fact that they made Steppenwolf look badass and cute on the eyes at the same time...
I mean, the fact that they made Steppenwolf isn't just a normal villain who destroy earth because he's a villain but really just wants to go home really made me feel sad for him, good job Snyder
Your like aww poor guy,
Then he gets his fricken head cut off
I agree. I find myself feeling sorry for him everytime he’s on the screen, especially when he’s talking to Darkseid and Desaad.
Was he still alive with his head cut off ? D stepped on it and the eyes stopped glowing
@@TonyStarSmif well living beings do get a few seconds of consciousness when they get beheaded
@@fabuloussecretstandopawaaa9340and the mother box energy absorbed into him so I bet there some residual enegy left in him
The more i see them side by side the more i appreciate Snyder's cinematography.
With the Snyder cut, the weird sexualization of Wonder Woman in the 'original release' feels far more obvious and forced by Whedon. Makes me shudder a little.
Yeah so cringe and gross.
Joss Whedon puts women on a pedestal so he can look up their skirts.
It’s fascinating how Snyder and Jenkins (director of the Wonder Woman movies) frame Gal Gadot as empowering and as, well, a god (or Demi-god technically, but anyway...) whereas Whedon objectified her and as a result of that lens made her feel a lot less of a Superhero and an actual presence.
@@TheGeorgeD13 and keep in mind that warnerbros wanna stick with the 2017 version...yeah...says alot about them
He did it with black widow too
I feel like there is no reason to ever watch the Whedon version again in my life.
you people are so stupid acting like snyder's version is some sort of masterpiece all ruined by whedon. Theyre both absolutely awful, and thats because whedon was given the impossible task of fixing snyders piece of poop
@@TheBigEmstos your opinion is not a fact it’s an OPINION it’s our OPINION for think Zack Snyder Justice league is a masterpiece. I think it’s perfect but I’m not going around and saying wheddon version is complete garbage but I can say it’s bad but not to the Snyder cut because we finally have a good life action Justice league film. My opinion
@@TheBigEmstos heh, I agree u have an opinion, but not gonna matter since millions already disagree with u
I never said the Snyder version was a masterpiece, but that doesn’t need to be said to acknowledge that the Whedon version is the inferior version.
maybe you should express yourself more respectful
Props to you for also shooting this video in two versions and cutting between them👏
Snyder cut allowed me to use my brain, actually think about the story and the meaning behind it, also appreciate the mind behind this film.
Seeing this, the original version made flash dumbest, unnecessarily stupid, and that is one of the reasons that I didn't like Ezra's flash.
13:36 In the Whedon cut the janitor looks at the parademon without expressing any emotion. In the Snyder cut another shot is used in where the janitor is actually terrified and his facial expression sells it
Yeah good catch. Another great example of how forcing something down because of running time hurts the emotion/drama of the film.
Flash overcoming fear, the symbolism of fathers and father figures, Cyborg’s transformation, it was all such a wonderful addition
Except I think the point in this video was that the Flash fear arc was in the Whedon version, not the Snyder version.
@@ThreadBomb but it was in synder cut too ...the convo between him and his father shows the conflict.
"Josstice League" made Flash into a wimp, afraid to "do battle." I much preferred ZSJL's Flash, who jumped in to do his part, including battles.
I'm still not crazy about the casting of Ezra Miller, but he was much better in ZSJL.
@@ThreadBomb Josstice league's Flash is a clown
"I'm not broken... and I'm not alone." Sold it for me.
It is so refreshing to hear someone talking about all these points who has more than just their opinion to fall back on. GREAT analysis, my friend!
I am team synder cut.. The 4:3 perspective threw me for a loop at first but after getting the framing of characters etc it made so much more sense..
They cut down the movie so much that even Steppenwolf lost 2 of his fingers on each hand.
He’s so cute.
@Scom Tott dont we all sometimes
it's crazy how significantly better the film felt
@@90sindianmisc61 EVERYTHING
@@90sindianmisc61 the opening, the cyborg backstory, the star labs sequence, the first steppenwolf fight, the Superman flight 2.0, the Flash's whole arc, the final fight. And at last F**king DARKSIED.
@@90sindianmisc61 the whole damn movie
@@90sindianmisc61 bruh i think u haven't watch ZSJL
It did, but is it crazy?? I mean the original one was awful, really really bad. Horrible. Almost anything would be better. I liked the Snyder Cut, is still a flawed film and had some things that i personally dislaked, but i liked it, and yes it was 1000× times better than the original
I think the slow burn of the snyder cut reminds me of arthouse films and more atmospheric video art. I think it's also fair to criticise if snyder actually understands why it works in these other meduims/ genres, and if it fits well, it makes the film so much more interesting.
I notice how even your video is also edited the same way. Your left side of the frame is colorful and bright while the right side is dark and subtle. It helped me stay focus on what you were saying when the comparison was not in screen. If it's thought and done then you are brilliant and genius.
To be clear, it wasn't "$70 million for reshoots". It was mostly for finishing VFX, specially many scenes that were 100% digital, plus music, editing, etc. The only 'new' things that were shot were the epilogue Knightmare scene and the outside of Louis' apartment when Martian Manhunter appears for the first time. The rest was post production work.
Wasn’t aware that the entire MM shoe-horn was reshoots
@@TheUltimateWriterNZ Yeah, the ending was even a weirder case, because he origianlly shot an Affleck scene, but it was all with green lightning since he planned to do a GL cameo first, but WB said no, so he put MM instead and had to reshoot Ben as well (hence why he looked soooo different). As for the Martha/MM scene, that was supposed to be the only MM cameo, and he had shot the Martha half of it, but in 2020 he shot Harry Lennix's half (probably on a green screen). The "reshoots" were minimal... 99% of the movie he shot back in 2016 or whenever he did.
That first MM scene was no a reshoot if Im not mistaken. Snyder drew a storyboard for that scene. I think the MM scene at the end was a reshoot or at least they changed it from GL to MM
@@DAMNBros ur right The scene with Martian and affleck at The end was new because if u guys take a closer look at ben he is sninny and healthy like he looks today and The rest of The movie he's fit as hell. An example: in josstice League some scenes with ben he looks fit and in many others he looks bloated cuz by The time of reshoots he wasnt fit no more nor sninny and healthy he was drinking alot and it shows. (Pardon my weirdd english Btw Lol it aint my lenguage)
yeah, the most of the casts even said they're not contacted for a reshoot
If Whedon took out all the scenes with that one Russian family, maybe he wouldn't have had to cut so many scenes.
Bruh... you’re right.
In every whedon movie, he need outsider
Mustache "Key" opening, Brunch, Random Fams, Barry on Top = 25 minutes
Damn, I totally forgot about that scene lol
He included it because the studio asked him to show the heroes literally saving civilians. Like, really the on-your-nose kind of way of showing it because they think the audience are 100% idiots. That makes the scenes looked boring & bland.
Ironically, Snyder Cut showed the heroes saving much more civilians & even the whole world (The Flash reversing time) in a much more epic way.
Dude this vid is pure gold. Buen trabajo
I found your channel yesterday and have been watching a ton of your videos, thanks or all the great work you do, I’ve really enjoyed your channel. I’ve never seen the Snyder cut because I didn’t enjoy the first one and didn’t think it would be much different but you’ve convinced me to give it a try. Still great work!
I would argue that the scene showing Cyborg exploring his abilities, it's not necessarily redundant to show the idea that he can manipulate the world economy and then showing him adding money to someones account. The first step is his father explaining how limitless his abilities are with regards to the world economy, but then he singles out one person, someone who struggles and works hard, and helps them. A guy who could topple governments with a thought is focused on helping one person in that moment. It's his humanity shining through the "limitless" machinery and access he has.
That's a very good analysis of the scene.
It's weird how some people have problem with that. Like how he supposedly stealing from someone else. I assume that money is from some billionaire who won't even noticed missed 100.000 dollars.
@@ExtremeMadnessX Yeah, nice morality you have here, it's fine to steal money if the person is rich. It's still stealing
@@chemax79 They already stealing all that money with avoiding taxes. It's fair play to steal what they don't deserve to have.
Exactly. "The question/challenge isnt how to do it, it's how _not_ to do it".
I think the Znyder cut has a better balance of humor and darkness. Let Flash be the comic relief, other humor could based on situational and shouldn't be forced. I kinda wished the story had a bit more moral dilemma and a philosophical debate whether there should be a moral obligation to ensure the dead should stay dead or life deserves a second chance of living.
It would be hard to implement the dilemma in there when the JL absolutely needs Superman to defeat the enemy. There was no chance of them beating Steppenwolf without him.
It's Snyder, Snyder Cut.
I do miss the “just save one” like from Batman to flash scene though.
@@W3irdWombat There were a few bits from Whedon's that I think could have stayed. Personally I liked the rooftop scene with Batman, felt very Gotham. We haven't got to see that for Batfleck. I also didn't think the video part of Superman was all that bad - although it should have been the Shazam kids clearly filming it! (of course the cgi skin is the biggest issue with it)
I like this but they tried that with BvS and got crucified (No pun intended)
That scene between Alfred and Diana was one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie. It really humanized the characters and helped you connect with them. Scenes like this often get overlooked but are such a great storytelling device.
First video of yours I've watched, glad it was recommended to me, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Honestly, I think DC should stick to the more brooding and dark films. Marvel has already very much cornered the market on the lighter toned movies, and DC's darker movies always seem to do very well (The Dark Knight, Joker)
edit: alright, i don't actually care that much but i'm tired of people being all pressed. honestly, i don't even think what i said is right. usually i say my silly opinions and nobody notices. so actually, you're all right and you're also all wrong
The sami raimi Spiderman Triology was dark even though it was Sony and not Marvel at the time all 3 had dark aspects to it where tobey maguire(Peter) had to make real life altering decisions and was actually going through mental breakdowns and relationship problems with family, girlfriend and best friend
they should just use the serious tone for movies that are important for the central point of making the dcu, ad for other movies like aquaman or shazam they should try new things just like they did
Not to say it can't be done, but I feel like a more serious tone also sets the expectation of a somewhat more consistent world, which can make the expansion of the world into a massive franchise more challenging.
Even though I find a lot of the MCU movies underwhelming, the fact that they are so light in tone makes it easy to accept the more whimsical elements of it. Not that dark stories are automatically more grounded, Snyder's vision is far more stylized than the dark knight for instance, and in many places he's more pessimistic than Nolan is.
But as a general rule I'd say the darker movies lend themselves better to a singular author's vision than lighter ones that can more easily be industrialized.
Which is why DC seems to have moved away from their interconnected universe and have come back to mostly standalone franchises.
Now The Batman
@@ca8550 I wouldn't call Raimi's spiderman dark per say, but more like a dark only director making a light film, trying to hold back the darkness as best
These two versions should be discussed in detail to the students during their filmmaking educations.
There are FAR more important and influential films for film students to watch then Justice League my dude.
@@Indigo_1001 no it's a good idea to include. My dude.
Well, yeah! Consider that a blockbuster movie was done by different directors and look what came out. You don’t see that everyday.
Why
@@Indigo_1001 considering the impact and popularity of superhero films these days, who's to say they aren't influential in this era?
Fantastic video. Thank you for your work.
The Snyder Cut is like The Prince of Egypt. Dark, artistically bold and uplifting.
2:11 The $70 million for Zack Snyder's Justice League went to a lot more than the two scenes of additional photography. The $70 million went to finishing the visual effects that weren't originally finished, redoing the visual effects on Steppenwolf, paying for the editor (and all the other personel responsible for the film, like colour grading, foley, and whatnot), the score, the marketing, and probably other things we don't know of. Lots of people seem to think the $70 million was just for the end scene in the Knightmare timeline, and grossly disregard what it was used for and how far that budget was stretched to complete the film.
The knightmare scene was also filmed in snyders backyard
@@therealsteel1634 it wasn't. They filmed Wayne T Carr in Zack's backyard for a Green Lantern scene, but that didn't make it into the film.
Well spend IMO, steppenwolfs armor was so freakin cool
@@jonseyjones321 no, the knightmare scene was filmed in snyder’s back yard. He literally talks about inviting jared leto and ben affleck to his house to finish
right? they went back to the original design. i follow the artist he was freaking out lol. and that nightmare scene. so good
Snyder Cut helped me understand why I hated the Whedon version . I feel sorry for Ben Affleck as I think the terrible Whedon version actually contributed to negative press he was getting for his Batman .
The new Batman movies is going to be a disaster.
@@darthkek1953 You mean the Robert Pattinson movies?
@@darthkek1953 pattinson is gonna be great
@@darthkek1953 When the director and lead actors hate each other, it's gonna be a disaster.
I like Affleck as Batman definitely the physicality of his scenes
*Justice League* is such a gift to filmmakers who are learneing the craft; two vastly different renditions of essentially the same story, with both renditions having huge budgets.
The Cyborg arch is enterily perfect for me. The scene with de bull Market and de ATM machine was one of my favorite. Then the prologue works for the universe and continuity, so was important too.
felt bad for afleck. I felt like he was humiliated as to how he looked from whedons version, to the point people hated him. Because prio to the release of justice league, he was ready, very excited to do solo Batman film, but suddenly he turned it down. Man i feel him.
It's crazy how Josstice League destroyed so much of the DCEU
it’s the same case with Andrew Garfield as Spiderman too i think. they both would’ve been so good but the writing let them down.
@@zant2278 It wasn't doing well after BvS or Suicide Squad what do you mean lmao
@@alastor1227 was probably the straw that broke the camel's back
@@alastor1227 If JL did well, ZSJL would not exist.
In terms of tone, editing, and effects, Zack Snyder has always been able to make dc films look like comics on screen which I really appreciate.
especially with the size of the screen, the square reminded me of a comic panel
@@reat964 ikr! Batman and Supes look so epic and larger than life in that aspect ratio. Would love to watch all 4 hours of the film in IMAX for sure
I like 300, and Watchmen. Watchmen in particular I thought was a masterpiece, but I really hate Snyder's mainline DC comics movies. Man of Steel, BvS & Justice League, none of those movies are anything like the comics, the characters don't act like they do in the comics, and basically just made Justice League emo.
The best adaptation of DC comics was Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's DCAU.
@@John-X I understand why, but movies really should not be held to the comics they are based on (as weird as that wording sounds). Movies, just like comic books, cartoon movies, etc are just more avenues of approach for telling stories of characters. Plus, people say "The characters don't act how they do in the comics" as if every comic involving a specific characters has ever been the same and the characters traits have been the same as well. There's multiple stories and multiple versions of many characters in the comics. Why is it a problem when a movie protests a character a little different?
I was thinking exactly that when I was watching the movie earlier.The cliche things, the details to bring emotion, the little things (butterfly at the Superman fingers...), seems a lot with comic books.
Excellent Video, very well done!
I haven't gotten around to watching the Synder cut yet this was an interesting, seemingly balanced comparison. I guess there are more rewarding films I could probably watch before this stuff but it would be interesting to compare the 2 for myself... Which would probably mean I’d have to go back and watch the “original”. I wonder how much of a boost Whedon’s film got from people curious to watch or rewatch the original after seeing Snyder’s. This video made me realise just how little of the original I actually remember which I’m guessing was due to it's failure to engage me emotionally.
Fantastic work taking the time to go through both movies so well. Props to you!
DeSaad: There won't be any Justice League 2
Darkseid: Ready the hashtags, we will use the old ways.
#restorethesnyderverse
#restorethesnyderverse ofcourse.
#RestoreTheSnyderverse
#restorethesnyderverse
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
#Restorethesnyderverse
Stakes in Joss JL: Russian family in the middle of a shithole city
Stakes in ZSJL: Resurrecting Superman hints a possible future where he would succumb to the Anti-Life Equation and the world gets fucked. The boxes did achieve Unity and the explosion even disintegrated Superman. Darkseid was about to walk out of the Boomtube. It's up to The Flash to save the day.
Epilogue: Add to that, the Flash being indecisive and insecure about his power yet entirely aware of what he "could" be, and placing the Flash in a situation where he has literally no time to ask for help or think about consequences. Forcing him to believe in himself, and running faster than the speed of light, breaking the Speedforce and reversing time just enough to stop this from happening.
This scene cemented this movies superiority over the Joss cut.
@@sanderwillems8603 I saw some people commenting about his speech while reversing the time, some say he was just trying to encourage himself, but what I understood was that he was so scared in that moment that he started to say his last words, and if that is true they made him a more believable character
@@sanderwillems8603 That was without a doubt the best scene in any of the versions. Gave me freakin' goosebumps!
stakes in joss jl, release now; stakes in zsjl you have all the time you need.
You can tell Snyder's version is a more carefully composed movie in it's shots, where as Weidens shots look like they were just slapped together on the fly.
Pure bullshix. Snydercut is one of the most plot hole ridden pieces of garbage i've ever seen.
@@summertyme5748what plothole lol
Lois was SO emotional on her way to see Superman's statue head that she still had time to stop off for a takeaway coffee.
I think the atm scene really gives you a sense that Victor Stone is still a kid. And that makes him very different from everyone else (other than flash)
Yup, it actually shows that how superheroes would save people realistically. It's not necessary for superheroes to always save people during alien attacks and bank robberies. There are people in the real world who need saving like this and this scene makes it much better.
It's also to show a hero who saved someone in distress realistically & it fits his mood at that time. People on twitter complained about Cyborg screwing up the monetary system & overthinking about how the money came by, while in the movie through Cyborg's perspective, he just saw a single mum in a deep financial trouble that could ruin her life & her son's future. Also, we then saw that Cyborg actually didn't give a shite about the world in general, that could include monetary system, money, & the society. His focus was on an individual that he considered needing his help, not the world. That's why he said, "F**k the world."
no way dude this version of Cyborg was so depressing and boring. Teen Titans (2003)'s Cyborg was the best in personality and design.
@@John-X cry harder
@@badelle5303 it's the truth, cope & seethe fanboy
4:46 Fun fact, every scene in the Snyder Cut looks like a comic book frame.
Meanwhile, The Original looks like a set from The Office.
Joss Whedon should not direct another DC movie ever again!
Like Snyder did with Watchmen
I feel like I know what video review you watched but won't bring up his name because his name alone angers certain people 😂 but AGREED.
@@chrisvalenzuela7911 Facts don't care about your feelings.
@@gqn2 😂💯
Fantastic analysis and comparison! 👍
You got mad props!! You are calm calculated and articulate. Thank you
Would have liked to see you address the villain, Steppenwolf. Aside from his fake, plasticine appearance in the Whedon cut, he also completely lacked any meaningful arc, and seemed almost non-threatening. In the Snyder cut, not only was his appearance more real and intimidating, he was more expressive, more emotional, and he was given an arc that almost makes you sympathize with him a bit. Steppenwolf in the Snyder cut seemed like a powerful, intractable threat, and the implication that he was more or less a slave to Darkseid made you realize that Darkseid had to be a truly scary bastard.
Darkseid made Thanos from MCU look primitive. Darkseid didn't talk hot air and rather just jumped to the point.
" In the Snyder cut, not only was his appearance more real and intimidating, he was more expressive, more emotional, and he was given an arc that almost makes you sympathize with him a bit"
This was so true. Steppenwolf was a real creature with desires, fears, etc vs the Zealot in Whedons cut
@@iunderstanphotography2780 Yup, the entire plot line with Darkseid holding his family hostage makes steppenwolf a more meaningful villian as well rather than just another villian to kill. Albeit, the chances steppen's family was alive is probably 0.
Bruh best thing for me was Steppenwolf was Darksied's uncle. And he was trying to get redemption.
I can't remember where i learned steppenwolf is how uncle
Jesus Christ loves you
I like my Marvel movies at lighter tone and DC to be dark. They both have their place. This way when there’s a dark moment in Marvel, it stands out and the other way around for DC.
With marvel being lighter with little dark moments, you feel how interesting their characters are, making you see the struggle they have.
With DC being dark with light moments, you feel the human side of the characters, it gives you hope in gods again.
Good point! I agree completely.
I like my comic book movies to be true to the characters, Batman dark & gritty, Shazam, light & fun. Wonder Woman had the perfect tone, Man of Steel was hit & miss for me because Superman isn't dark
Marvel can do dark stuff too, especially with their Netflix adaptation of daredevil, the punisher, Luke Cage those are dark undertones, but DC is more recognizable tbh
@@jasonbat5537 superman was having a journey of self discovery while everything wanted to kill him or the planet so it was supposed to dark. The reason why I liked this version because still being dark I can clearly see the optimism of superman comming out as the snyderverse story progress
Snyder be all about visual, literally creating comic book pages on screen.
Just a correction; Snyder Cut is the original version, not the theatrical cut.
The grandiosity of the scene explaining Cyborg's powers was part of the point of the scene itself. It's meant to build/hype him up, to make you wonder what he will do with this godlike power. The next scene? He helps someone else he doesn't even know in a lifechanging way. It tells all you need to know about him, I think.
Exposition-wise? Yes, redundant, sure. As a character note? It's invaluable.
Yeah I felt like a lot of the bits called extraneous here are part of what makes the movie so special. I mean, the Flash's intro shows up here in the montage of extraneous bits when he's talking about pacing, but I couldn't imagine the film without it. It's the most beautiful thing I've seen in a superhero film and it takes on a tragic resonance in light of Snyder's loss.
yep, ill admit when it first started I was like yeaaaah I could see why this was cut. but by the end my only thought was damn cyborg is insanely powerful lmao, before that I never really had a sense of what exactly his powers were.
@@edgeofvision the Flash intro scene was one of the best! My bf is a huge fan of the series and was horribly let down by Joss's cut. When he saw this scene he was on the edge of his seat with a huge grin on his face. I love how Zack gave every single character so much love and screentime.
@@ralph5214 Same thoughts, I feel like it really gave a massive exploration at how incredibly valuable and powerful Cyborg's powers are and how intelligent he is without making him look like an all-mighty Gary Stu beyond his physical strength.
he made every character feel as important as superman. on the other hand, superman felt too overpowered In whewhe's cut. everyone had their part to play In snyders cut.
But he felt more like Superman in the Whedon reshoots.
@@lex_rodriguez I agree he felt more like Superman, but he didn’t feel like Clark. He felt like some dude took control of Clark’s body, like a doppelgänger, and had to learn to be Clark.
soo true
Agreed! Flash's time travel scene and all the Cyborg scenes were a great improvement, and all the characters felt individuals in the Snyder Cut, compared to Wheadon's, where they just felt like they were playing second fiddle to Batman, Superman and Wonderwoman
@@caddlife5619
Funny, that’s how I feel about this Superman in general since Man of Steel.
A Superman that looks and sound like him, but have non of the charisma and hart of the character. Cavill is a great guy in person, but I never see that in any of his rolls (I find him better as a badass quite type).
When Batman is more emotional, charming and funny then Superman WITHIN the same movie, you have a problem,
I agree with everything you saying except the end, the Knightmare sequence was here to build this DCEU, it was etablished since BvS, so nothing wrong here
I love how your video also evidently contains significant reshoots.
I think the Cyborg giving Money scene did exactly the same thing the Wonder Woman talking to the girl scene did. It humanized him and showed, that even though he is angry and depressed about everything going on, he still wants to do good for the world. And not only that, but it showed him the good sides of being a Cyborg and that those in fact ARE gifts he has, like WW said. It was very important to build his arc of acceptance and to build his character.
Well said, and I agree 100%. In fact, the Cyborg scene of him giving money to the woman and her kids is one of the few scenes that actually really stood out to me regarding the character development of Cyborg. I think if the audience manages to remember a scene without being reminded of the setup, then the director did his job right.
i agree,from my point of view was like reading a one-shot comic about cyborg introducing his character to the later movie and that gives him more taste
It wasn't the scene with him giving the lady money that he said was bad, but the scene with the bull and bear fighting. He said that since the scene with the mother already showed that anyways, the weird fight scene was redundant.
@@TheDeathmail well no he didn't say that, which was the problem. I mean with the bulls fighting, yes he did say that and I agree with him, but right after ( 18:39 ) he basically just says"Cyborg hacking the atm to give money to the poor family was redundant, because it established the same thing as the bulls fighting scene" which I don't think due to my above explained reasons. The bull scene explains how easy it is for him and what he COULD do. The atm scene on the other hand also shows his humanity and his good heart and really fully shows what a gift these skills really are.
Hardly anyone realizes that Cyborg committed a crime. Either the money the mother received with her daughter had to come from someone else's account, or it was counterfeit bills. There is an irreverent undercurrent to the law in Snyder's filmography. He breaks them needlessly. The scene of Wonder Woman talking to the girl is also demagoguery. She knows that the girl cannot be what she wants to be, because she is not an immortal goddess as she is. Snyder's philosophy is deplorable.
That moment then Desaad told to Steppenwolf about debt of 50,000 worlds, I felt that.
Maybe Cyborg could help with that :Þ
Steppen shouldn't have taken out those student loans
steppenwolf could easily kill Desaads ass tho
Fr I can relate to that
They talk about 50,000 worlds like it's balls.
Take a shot every time the word "brooding" or "brutish" is used in the context of these movies and Batman specifically lol
i've only watched schneider cut once but at 13:52 if you watch the entire scene, hat boy with the gun exits the van in full view of the guard. he then knocks on the van door and all the guys come out with guns.
hat boy then waltzes past the guard who STEPS OUT OF HIS WAY
why didn't the guard consider hat boy a threat? he was in the SAME VAN
"What's the best thing about planet earth?"
"ARGGHHHHH!"
🤣
I feel like every difference between Snyder and Whedon is encompassed in that moment.
Should have asked what is the best thing about Warner Media and got that reply.
Funny how in the Whedon one, that question is left open yet, we never get an answer from him by the end of the movie
@@NickTovA I think we were SUPPOSED to assume he was thinking about Lois..... still dumb
@@ThomasFlight dude don't call Whedon cut the original one Snyder cut is The original Whedon is the reshoot
Whedon Cut = A TV show.
Snyder Cut = An epic opera.
I’m glad that I waited to see the Snyder cut first.
Dont insult tv shows like that
Luck you , I saw the Whedon cut in 17 and he made Bats look like a fool,. If you didn't want it , don't try.
I like Joss Whedon's Justice League. It was fun to watch.
Snyders cut is too boring
@@SunitVosdey Absolute Plebeian-tier shit taste.
@@ApolloCalrissian probably just a troll. Every being with eyes can see which one is better (snyder obviously)..... Or he doesn't have an eyes.
The joker scene is put there because Snyder knew he wasn’t gonna do the other two movies and he wanted to show the characters that would appear on the next movies, like the joker, death stroke, and others!!! Also everyone wanted an answer to the Easter egg on BVS regarding Robin’s uniform with the writing “you did this”!!
Whedon forgot he was filming justice league instead of the avengers
20:56 Snyder did this exact thing in Man of Steel having named side characters on the ground during the destruction of Metropolis. People criticized how the destruction made them feel (when that was the point) so at the end of BvS and ZSJL, they specifically make it clear that the places they're fighting are uninhabited.
@Rōnin Legit tho. I love that portrayal in MoS. It gives a fairly upbeat film with a grandiose tone feel significant, because every moment you can tell shit is getting much worse, and the entire final fight is "This is what happens when you have DBZ characters battle in a populated area". It ties into BvS so damn well because it reinforces all the films points home.
Fucking plebians.
@@fearedjames Exactly
Not for BvS, actually. Superman specifically questions why Batman brought Doomsday back into the city in that scene.
@@azelynhirano7737 "Because the port is abandoned"
I found it extremely interesting how Steppie and his forces went for a secret invasion. a stark contrast to Zod and the kryptonians with their bombastic approach. had there been no Justice League, the unity would've wiped Earth clean as a plate without a warning!
Whedon : cuts 10 minutes by rushing vital scenes
Proceeds to add double the time by showing Russian family
Right? I mean if I wasn't so concerned for what was going to happen to that poor Russian family of, what was it, 3 or 4? I'd never have been able to accept the rest of the steaming pile of shit as a human story. Whew! Thank the Wee Baby Jesus on the Cross he put them in there!
@@SweetBabyJesusOnTheCross STFU! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL
@@enzobenzo09 except one is biodegradable trash, which can give birth to new life(movies, shows etc) while the other is a big plastic bag floating around in the ocean making life difficult for everyone else.
@@enzobenzo09 your opinion is not a fact. it's your opinion.
What's even worse...weadon's version is canon
Late to the party, but the Joker scene is there to establish what would've been probably the third entry of the three planned JL films by ZS.
It's hinted at in BvS, and it's not hard to imagine now that Steppenwolf has failed, the 2nd JL involves Darkseid attacks earth in search of Anti-Life, is victorious, and then in the 3rd, an "Endgame" type of story where what the final JL scene involves is reality. Batman, Flash, Joker, and co. have to put aside their differences to reverse the tides and save the world from Darkseid and Superman.
Great video. I love the snyder cut but I agree 100%. Also I like how you intercut your different takes with different outfit and location.
The main problem literally is identity crisis. DC is mostly known to be dark. Snyder understood it more.
Ps: I'm an MCU fan.
Ahh a fellow Marvel fan that understands DC
You're really talking about 90s DC. For decades before and after, DC's tone was much more balanced.
Anyone with a brain would know this
man finally Mcu fan who really understands Ty so much
I don't know that I'd agree -- Shazam is a light and fluffy kid-oriented DC movie. The tone of that movie fit the comics, including the original Fawcett Comics version back when he was "Captain Marvel."
Batman is dark and brooding, if done right. Tim Burton and Chris Nolen showed how to make a dark Batman film, giving a mold for the other films. Superman and WW can go dark or be bright. Aquaman has to go wet -- which it did successfully.
Because of his origin, I think Cyborg really needs to go dark. Flash (Barry Allen version) can go either way -- as his background (father wrongfully convicted of killing his mother) is dark, but the character and his powers are more "light."
Marvel generally has fewer "dark" origins. Spider-man and Black Widow are the most tragic. The movie version of Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver are different than the comic version. Most of the other characters have origins that may involve personal sacrifice but not the loss of loved ones.
*Bruce &Diana accidentally grabs mouse at the same time*
le whedon: alright imma sexualize this woman in this film.
Snyder has an extensive history of traumatizing female charcters for little to no purpose throughout his filmography, similarly as Whedon. Let's not pretend that Snyder is vastly superior with how he treats his female characters because he reframed and reshot a few scenes.
@@alexshashek9356 I had to check his IMDb to make sense of this comment, and I still can't.
@@alexshashek9356 show your sources
@@Thekingkhari meanwhile
czcams.com/video/dMrWK4RxyiU/video.html
@@ravitejap2819 just goes to show how this generation spews just about anything on the internet to perpetuate the idea of victim hood.
Perfect explanation. Great job.
7:47 you are absolutely right I didn’t notice the tone difference until this vid
Don’t say original, Snyder’s cut itself is the original. Wedon’s cut is a remake.
Yeah I meant "original" in the sense of "original release" and by the time I realized that was kinda confusing an inaccurate it was way to late to change it.
Why do Snydelets have to gatekeep every goddamn public tittle? This is commentary. It’s not even content. Stfu.
@@sonofseptember Agreed why bicker over two shit directors
@Pristine Artifact Nope. I do like Thomas’ breakdown.
@@ThomasFlight Honestly it might be better this way, cause the general audiance think that the Josstice League is the original , the fans know the full story behind it so they won't be confused , maybe
For me one of the main issues with the 2017 JL was how Batman was portrayed as a puny and powerless individual
true
He can't do anything in Josstice League
Went from unstoppable badass in BvS into a useless cosplayer. Fuck Whedon.
@@verdugo7974 bruv Batman is straight up bussin' in ZSJL. Badass both in and out of the Batsuit.
He's the same in zack's version too. A background character.
@@jothishprabu8 he is literally the main character and leader of them all. Makes all the most important decisions. Has the most on screen time. Him not fighting Steppenwolf head on doesn't mean he does nothing. He's smarter than that.
I think the biggest thing people miss about the knightmare stuff is that it was a setup up for a future film. Where the Events of that timeline turn for the worst and Superman becomes evil while darkseid takes over the universe. It was meant to be undone but the current timeline. Things that seemed out of no where before, like the flash scene in BVS, make more sense at the end of the Snyder cut. It’s easy to see where it was headed.
Excellent analysis!