PENETRATION - SATURATION - COATING, Oiling Wooden Tool Handles
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- 3 Major approaches or factors in oiling wooden tool handles with drying oils, like linseed. Pentration, Saturation and coating or finish. Finishes aim to form a barrier between the environment and the wood. A combination of penetration and saturation together fills the wood forming something like a finish that is embedded deeply in the wood protecting the wood fibers directly from the intrusion of moisture by repelling water as well as filling in the spaces that water would enter into the wood. Coating is faster and cheaper, but less effective and subject to wearing away with use.
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Oh man what an amazing tangent at the end! This has been a subject on my mind increasingly lately. The amount of people that make broad, encompassing statements as though they are a fact, as though they even have the ability to know something, is really starting to rub me the wrong way. My partner does it and a couple of my friends do it frequently too. I'm starting to see this as an immediate sign someone lacks either intelligence, or at the very minimum; the strength of being to accept they don't have the answers, no one else has the answers and no one ever will. I cannot understand people using ignorance like a safety blanket, its like a completely different mindset that allows people to just order their reality in an arbitrary way so they can direct all of their focus on themselves. Crazy.
Great video; I'm glad to hear a lot of that as I also use turpentine + raw linseed oil (never seen boiled for sale in Australia anyway), though I used about 30% turps rather than 50%. I can't remember where I picked up the info to use turpentine, but I've been worrying it might be a bad idea as I've heard very few people mention it in regards to axes. I do feel better to know both yourself and the gentleman in the video have used it plenty and not had any bad results. I find it leaves a less tacky/glossy finish and feels more like wood when you thin it out with turps.
Also accidentally left my cold steel shovel ass down in my oil bucket for a couple of weeks accidentally. I was expecting that to overly expand or soften the wood, but it actually came out pretty nice - very polished built up looking finish. There is however a significant visible gradient from the end of the handle to where it connects to the shovel head clearly showing the higher and lower saturation level haha :) A little too afraid to do that with my axes!
My ideas about that realm of fact, assumption, assertion, belief, language influence, ego and people's real motivations have evolved a lot over the past 5 years or less. I'm more and more inclined to be about embracing ignorance instead of insecurely grasping at "facts" and the known. There is a great letter by Wendell Berry on something like the wisdom of ignorance that opened some doors for me in that regard. Here it is. landinstitute.org/land-report-article/toward-ignorance-based-world-view/ I have another video recorded that I might publish soon that touches on some of my evolving philosophy. I think a lot of strong assertions and words we like to use that invoke finality, like never, always, fact, proper etc. are used to bolster weak or non-existent arguments and express opinions. Or they are used to not have to make an argument that we really can't actually articulate, because it is based on belief. The more strongly and frequently they are used the more I suspect there may be some bullshit afoot. I've become inclined to think that concepts like fact and certainty and their pursuit and valuation is misguided and much more based on ego, politics, ulterior motives and the deep roots of human insecurity than on the real pursuit of understanding and genuine inquiry. In this way, science seems to operate very much like religion.
I've arrived at very similar questioning to yourself, though I'm currently still operating under the premise that belief/faith/hope is an inherent requirement of the majority of current humans. For most, the pursuance of overarching "answers" to life seems to overshadow the ability to formulate questions that lead to more questions. I always thought that the entire point of inquiry.
CS.Lewis in "the abolition of man" makes some interesting observations about the way we learn "fact", interesting enough to prompt me to quit a degree in the sciences, and start the real learning.
I've pretty much been exclusively watching your videos for a couple of days now, SO MUCH VALUE! I wanted to weigh in here because I find it interesting that someone clearly driven by similar passions and interests to myself, but with a very different life, have arrived at such similar rumination, particularly how the current scientific community seems an awful lot like an organised religion.
Thanks
@@SkillCult this url no longer works
I definitely don’t believe you.
@@SkillCult whenever someone says that "knowledge is power". I usually reply, that "ignorance is bliss".
When we strongly belief we know something firmly. We tend to become fixated and closeminded. But when we instead try to "forget what we know" and and acknowledge that there's even more that we don't know. Then we become flexible and openminded.
This is what sages practise. Trying to see/percieve something with "fresh eyes", as if seeing it for the first time.
It's interesting to note, that it is believed, that the philosopher Sokrates (who was regarded as one of the wisest men on earth), apparently was known for these two quotes.
"The only thing I know, is that I don't know anything."
And regarding knowledge, "I feel as though, as if I am standing on the beach and have barely glanced a handful of sand grains".
Came for the oil, stayed for the philosophy. Cheers
Dang 3 years and no comment first
This is why I love your channel! Deep philosophy coming from something as seemingly mundane as oil wood finishes.
We have stuff to learn from everywhere I think.
You are really articulate and informative. Great videos.
Thank you.
Hi Steven and Thanks! Wood from living trees is still alive even after it is fashioned into something. This you can feel when using a tool with an oiled handle as opposed to some slick plastic type finish. It is why an oiled handle feels good in the hand, feeling that life as you use the tool. Tools being extensions of our hands is all the more reason to feel that life and connection. I'm sure you have felt the vibes after finding an old well used tool. One that has been well taken care of and perhaps even loved by the user. That tool or tools that become the favorites because they feel so good in the hand and creating the best work we can produce. And about athorities? I'm with you there friend. My mentor was born in 1889 and was a cabinetmaker, blacksmith, shoemaker and rug weaver. He never told me how to do things but instead asked me how I would do something. So I'd go back to my shop and do something the way I had told him I would. The next morning he would ask, where is your piece? I'd say it didn't work. He would say I know damn well it did'nt work. I'd ask him why he didn't tell me so. He'd say because you would have done it your way anyhow. But now you've learned this on your own. Now go and do it right. I learned much from this old man John Groff. But he taught me by doing through my own experiences. In this way I learned well. Before he died at 92 he told me I was better than he was, which I had trouble excepting. But he said, what kind of teacher would I have been if you haden't been better. Hopefully you will teach someone to be better than you. I know this is a bit long but it all fits in to what you are talking about in this video. In sharing your skills you are keeping skills alive and I have learned much from you through me doing. I have 3 deer hides thus and 2 in lime. Skudding is coming soon. I've grown to love this process of making leather thanks to your clear and honest sharing. Damn good humor too, not to mention guitar playing, which I'd like to hear more of. Do some pickin when you don't feel like buckin, eh? Good December Steven! Happy holly daze. DaveyJO
Good story. There is an important difference between respect and absolute deference. Tanning leather is easy to fall in love with. Especially bark tanning. It's simply amazing. I don't play a lot anymore, but I always think I should. I can't send you messages, so if you need my address, you'll have to contact me through the website or something.
I've restored old military surplus rifle stocks with the 50/50 linseed oil and turpentine method. Some classic formulas add beeswax for the 3rd category of coating. I had asked in another video about your methods, so here now I find answers that you find useful. Glad to know about flax oil.
I have been purchasing tools from your average hardware store for years and never understood why the handles always broke so easily. Saw an old man oiling a handle about a decade ago and decided to ask him about it. Always looking at other people's methods to see what works and what doesn't. Not really looking to follow anyone, usually just looking to see how my ideas stack up against others. Appreciate the channel. Thank you for sharing.
Im so glad you are making videos again, absolutely love watching a skilled craftsman talk/work
I actually have lots of mostly finished vids and some series I'm trying to finish, but things have kept me from finishing stuff I started.
"We don't need belief. We can act without it." I've been thinking along these lines for the last several years, but you put it into words in perfectly. Thanks, no I can say I believe Stephen from SkillCult. Jk lol
Yeah, don't believe me ha ha. Now I have another word that I have to try not to say in videos and people will probably call me on it too. :)
When I commented on your brush burning video, I was afraid you would take it wrong about me leaving my piles for wildlife. Instead you surprised me with your response. Now I see why. Love your attitude and outlook!
Thanks, I try to be reasonable. I do go on rants once in a while, but we all need to let off the pressure sometimes ;)
There's more experts than people out there on the internet. And amazingly too few thinkers. I think that's why I enjoy your work.
I've been playing with flax seed oil and a couple of danish and tung oils (not mixing, just which ever one I feel like using that day on that project), and in a few years I might have an opinion on what I like. In the future, if my boys ask me why one over the other, the best I could tell them will be, because that's the one I liked. They can figure out why themselves.
If we're both still alive when you figure it out, let me know! Of course I won't believe you anyway lol.
Will do. But I'm a slow learner, so you better plan on hangin in there for awhile.
I have been mixing my gun stock oil about the same for the rifles I build. 50/50 raw linseed and turpentine once in a while I will add walnut oil, it is thinner and darker in tone and consistency. It works and my customers like it....
I might try it. I"m not crazy about the smell. I might try orange oil. I have about 4 gallons of the stuff from an old project.
Your a very smart fella who knows how to think and articulate ideas to others. I really enjoy and value listening to you.
raw linseed isn't too common any more. You might find it at some paint stores. Otherwise, yeah, flax oil that people eat is exactly the same stuff.
I found some in a farm shop that's intended for horse feed omega 3 supplement, not bad price either
Flax oil and raw linseed oil are the same thing ?
My go to mix for preserving wood. Use it on pine picnic table and weather exposed plywood on my camper. Lasts a number of years and soaks in well.
Turpentine 1 qt
Boiled Linseed Oil 1 qt
Pine Tar 1/2 pt
Japan Drier 1/2 pt
I did order a set of Japanese water stones last night after watching you use those stones and why they were your choice ...
But with axes i'm going drop back to what i found looking at 3 different dealers and all the axes were wood handles models , i found one made by Husq that had correct grain and was hung straight out of the entire rack, for the brand i expected better workmanship .. Stihl brand i found was worse in their handles.. I didn't consider head shapes and or designs or head weight at the time i just wanted an axe that was built correctly .. The one dealer was funny , he said it's just an axe... Well ya oaky .. So i looked at replacement wood handles maybe 6-8 handles and found one that was good full length.. Now i have spent $70.00 for the axe and $23.00 for a handle ..I do not know with my skills if i could hang a new handle and hang it straight , so i said no i don't want to do that.. if i were to ruin the handle and have to buy a second handle then i would have $46.00 more into the adventure.. So it just ground to a stop ...
Yes where i live in the Pacific Northwest i see axe heads all the time at garage sales for $2.00-$5.00 and brands my grandfather owned too.. Someday i may tackle hanging a handle ..
I believe you are correct , learn how to hang your own axle handle , a skill i should learn how to do before i'm 80 which is not too far off ..Your video was good.. keep making them..
Brother, your stance on belief at the end of this video is one of the most beautifully put ways to say that, "belief" is only what someone else is telling you. Think for yourself. Take information from others and, with your own experience, draw a conclusion from that and your experiences. As equally important is to know when you are out of your realm of knowledge and experience. When this is the case, choose wisely who you look to for guidance. Folks need this message now even more than when you made this video.
If there is a single useful thing I could do in the time I have left on this planet, it would be to do what I can to help usher in the paradigm shift that is due and trying to happen. That paradigm shift is essentially away from the sacred institution of belief, whether it's from science, personal identity, group identity and dogmas or religion and toward an orientation with veracity. The hard thing to communicate is that truth is not really the changing of dogmas or beliefs. We are so entrenched in belief thinking that this is the default assumption that you need to find a "truth" that is righter than the "truth" you believed before, but the ultimate truth is that we are profoundly and ridiculously ignorant. But that is okay. we have functioned in this state of profound ignorance forever. If we would just recognize it and attempt to make peace with it, we would be much more functional and knowledgeable, not less. But chasing truths and trying to tie them down is fraught with danger and we just make more dogmas. These ideas are starting to gel in my head, but by it's nature, an orientation toward truth has to have vast open spaces and uncertainties. That is maybe the message really. At some point I will be able to articulate all of this better. The problem is not saying it, it's finding ways to actually communicate it effectively and offer tools to change the way we think, which requires pre-emptively heading off the traps we typically fall into, which all lead back to belief thinking. A good resource for this type of approach to life is eastern wisdom, which at it's best rejects belief and identity in an attempt to perceive the world fresh and unfiltered. Check out this short segment. czcams.com/video/nNcFquUuKww/video.html We are so entrenched, whether by nature, or by nurture, perhaps both, in belief thinking that most people will not be willing to put in the work. But given tools that work, some will and eventually it will affect the people around them. Something has to combat the egomania, narcissism and tribalism that are ruling people's lives and interactions and not just wrecking any hope of social cohesion, but wrecking us from the inside out and making us grossly ineffectual. Try to tell anyone any of that now and you'll get mostly deer in the headlights looks lol.
@@SkillCult You speak to a truth . I do not understand the need for absolutes of a binary world. Freedom lies within the area between black and white.
I've been using sun bleaching process, which makes for a slightly faster curing time. Also there is a Tried and True danish oil, which is pure truly boiled linseed oil, food safe. It dries a little faster too, although not as fast as the hardware store BLO. It is not cheap though.
The trick for me is heat. Heat opens the pores of the wood and allows hot oil to penetrate deeper. On all my wooden bows, I apply hot oil (Fat) from a saucepan and then run my bow over open coals for 1-3 minutes. Than after several saturation coats over a 2 day period, I seal the wood with a beeswax/oil finish.
I have cut a cross section of a broken and well oiled longbow and have found a darker colored wood that extended 6/8ths of an inch from the surface to the center. I believe this to be the oil penetration.
I always tell beginning bow-makers that oiling does two things. Firstly, it slows down any existing moisture content (usually 8-12%) from escaping in a hot and dry climate. That’s not good for a bow, because the moisture content goes below 6% and becomes brittle and may break. Secondly, as we all know, oiling slows the penetration of water via humidity or rain. A bow will lose it’s cast and recover slower when the moisture content gets too high. A well oiled piece of wood will prevent that.
I personally use organic oils for my arrows, bows, and axe handles. Hog, Deer, and pretty much any animal fat that’s rendered works foe me. I also use coconut oil sometimes or a beeswax/fat mixture. I even dabble with mineral oil sometimes.
Any organic oil will work.
Great video, very interesting and informative!
Cheers
-Aaron
Dude! Hope you’re well, missed you for a while there. Hope you’re in a good place and healthy
Thanks, it's a rough ride, but I've been getting some breaks lately.
LOL Life is like one big science experiment ,,,,, so rock on brother !
To me it is, except that I operate mostly outside of the bounds of scientific methodology. It's handy, but it ain't the only game in town. There is a lot to be said for intuition and doing a lot.
On the surface, this video seems like some useful information about oiling, but if you allow it to penetrate, you may just realize that it's saturated with knowledge!
I'm just trying to sound clever. Seriously though- your content is great. I'm moving out to the woods in a few days (after a decade-long sentence in suburbia), and your videos have me overflowing with anticipation for the new projects and discoveries that are waiting out there. The property is low in the foot of the Appalachians, in SW PA. It's private, lush, and green, with hearty ferns under a tall canopy and a trout stream at the back of the property. At the front near the driveway, at least a half dozen fruit trees are already in their prime.
It's not as though I'm 'woke' or anything- I mean, I feel mostly asleep to be honest. But there's something wholly unnatural about much of what modern life has become, and it's encouraging for me to see others who can see that-and aim to correct it-from a larger, concept-based, approach. I'm no Luddite, but I'm ready to scale back some of life's noise and complexity. It has been corrosive, and it doesn't impress anyone.
One more thing: not to put words in your mouth, but I've read some of your thoughts here and there, and I think that you're right about the trap of becoming an _ideal_ for the vicarious experience of the viewer. That must certainly perpetuate inaction. As a thinking individual, I avoid that trap wherever possible: we all too readily fall into a pattern of _following._ Perhaps this is the source of both our brilliance and our stupidity; we've only learned tool use by parroting and refining the (often accidental) behaviors of our kin, but such copy-catting is also a gullibility that makes us susceptible to exploitation. I have no intention of patronizing you with some silly shower of feigned compliment; I simply wish to give you a most sincere nod of respect, and tell you that I find genuine value in your content. And for that, thanks.
Sorry about the ramble. I do that every time I write. Or think.
Awesome comment. Don't apologize to the likes of me for long comments lol. Property sounds great. Oh for a trout stream! Those are hard to come by in these parts. Remember that fruit trees are a great foundation for grafting on new varieties to try out. I'm not a ludite either, but I think it pays to examine how well modern life is serving us and how it's not on multiple levels. We tend to think in terms of categorical acceptance or rejection. Also, with something like labor or anything involving discomfort, our thinking tends to be one dimensional. Labor pays dividends in multiple ways and if we are so comfortable all the time that we become big sissies, how comfortable are we then? Good luck in your new endeavors.
Thanks!
Living the dream. Nice! Hope the first 2 years have ben good to you.
Very good explanation of how and why it all works. I am as guilty as anybody else. It is easy to watch CZcams videos and believe what creators tell you is the way to do things. Without experience it could all be bull crap. The only way to find out what works for us is to do enough of something to find out what works for each of us. It will not happen overnight. That's the thing! Good no nonsense video. Keep them that way. That's what makes this channel different.
Hey, thanks. Fortunately we can act without full understanding. It's how we got this far for the most part!
I like your videos and thinking.
thanks
Great ! "If one understand why do things, then do not need rules" Too many people spend too much effort to learning rules, to little too understand why things are. 🙏
Yet another video I have found of yours to be beneficial!!Thank you for sharing!! Will be watching many others.And yes,I now have linseed oil on my shopping list!!:)
Started doing this a year ago with my cutting boards and kitchen utensils. Works great, i let them dry for a few months before i use them
Thanks for the tips!
I like my cutting boards dry, but never tried this type of thing. Should be great for knife and utensile handles for sure. I should do some of mine.
I use food grade mineral oil for my cutting board and wooden kitchen knife handles. Also a very light coat on the steel now and then, especially my bush craft knives. Think Flax would work just as well. Other oils are known to turn rancid over time.
Flax seed oil for your cast iron.
Makes your kitchen smell like your shop as well as hammers.
Great attitude regarding authority. You’ve arrived at a Socratic mindset and you’ll learn and refine your thinking your whole life.
I'm not familiar with him or much other philosophy. I try to keep that stuff as non-derivative as possible by avoiding consuming too much of other people's ideas. If we keep seeking truth or the closest thing we can find to it though, certain things become apparent. One is our counterproductive tendency to rally around authority and subjugate our thinking and our actions to other people. I say counterproductive, but that should be modified by context. If everyone thought for themselves in the military for example, it probably wouldn't run all that well :) I'm pretty well convinced that we need a paradigm shift in thinking away from belief and toward more open ended models where what we don't know and how often we might be wrong is given much more play and the veracity of information is viewed more truthfully. At least among people who choose to be thinkers. Even among the general populace though, thought may be able to be shifted in that direction eventually. We do have very plastic minds, even if a lot of our behavioral tendencies might be hardwired.
His most famous saying was "The only thing I know is how little I do know." and so in the books he's asking questions, why, why, why. Why is that good? What do you mean by good? etc. And no one can answer and he doesnt send you home with a slogan. The dialogs don't give a teaching (people say they do) but instead demonstrate a method that if you're bold enough you can imitate. Its basically just an interogation of recieved ideas, like your interrogation of boiled lso, and your interrogation of "why is the surface coat good? Do we even need it?"
Oddly enough he was a craftsman, a stonecutter by trade, and served in the Athenian army. Contemporary records indicate he shut up while deployed and was a good soldier.
We're hardwired to be social, but maybe not in groups so large and not with so much top-down presentation of Knowledge and Facts. We've unduly venerated "experts" and fetishize credentials to the point we over look results as an indication of competence.
I'm pretty excited to watch the rest of your videos and I'm pretty excited to see where you take channel or allow it to take you. Thanks for sharing with us.
Awesome comments. sounds like my kind of guy. One of my teachers used to say "the more you know, the dumber you are." I'm interested in approaching philosophy and most processes as an excavation of existing truths, or maybe inherent observations that could be made. For me, that is very intuitive. Much of my discontent with modern thought has come from attempting to use language to describe things that I can intuitively sense as emerging patterns in that way, and understand to a point. In trying to bring them to a communicable form, I realize how inadequate language is to the task. Simply taking the concept that a word is not a thing and the world cannot be accurately described throws authority into major question. So do things like perspective and bias and the obvious limits of human intellect. The first chapter of Sapiens, by Yuval Harari proposes that it's the ability to communicate and believe fictions which allowed Homo Sapiens to win the species race over other hominids. That totally makes sense to me, but it's super ironic, because effectively innovative and out-of-the-box thinkers have to essentially operate mostly outside of that mechanism. They are probably likely to be either elevated to authority status, or more likely marginalized, ignored and ridiculed. One of the reasons I chose the name SkillCult is to poke at people's brains to think about that authority paradigm, because I'm relentlessly encouraging people to think, which is the most un-cultlike thing possible lol. Something like the concept of authority can be useful in getting by day to day and making decisions, but more so if we view it for what it really is and note all of the assumptions made by all parties invovled, instead of elevating everything to some level of belief and then acting.
After watching your last video on drying oils, and others, I've gone to using just Raw Linseed/Flax Oil on all my tool handles....very pleased so far! Yeah, personal and observed experience - the best knowledge!!
Cool, seems to work well for me. Like everyone else, I was concerned it wouldn't dry. I'm not sure it every dries as hard as oil using metal driers, but it's good enough for anything I've used it for so far.
I’ll keep watching if you keep talking, thank you for making me feel more normal 🙏🙏🙏.
You give a lot of good insight to us,,,,,,, trying new things,, that's who we are. Thanks for the video.
You're welcome.
“It is just unnecessary to believe things” -Edholm I love that.
My whole world has become wrapped around the advancement of a non-belief paradigm and responsible relationship with consumption and interpretation of information. they are simple ideas, but it can be very difficult to come to embody them in everyday thinking and communications since we live in a blatantly belief oriented paradigm.
“Faith and Belief are overrated.” That’s one of things I love about this channel. Let’s hear it for critical thinking!
yeah, but real critical thinking, not the belief based rejectionist thinking that often passes for it.
I’m not quite an expert like you but. I have found that after many applications such as 30-40 it developed a nice coating. But i wasn’t able to get anymore saturation. So I wiped it down with denatured alcohol and was able it get more applications of saturation before a coating developed. They handle color looks great, feels great and just gets a lite coat after a day of use.
I read an article from a gunsmithing book, circa 1930's, stating that a very good way to make walnut stocks very water and humidity resistant is to is to saturate the wood with raw LO and 50% turpentine heated to boiling and apply liberally and after an hour wipe off excess and repeat every day until it will not take any more. The same oil is reheated for each application. Let set at least a week then apply thin coats of the same every 3 days until the desired finish is reached.
I've always used boiled linseed oil cut with mineral spirits.
Very good definitions and information! Thanks again.
All of us have told ourselves lies, that we believe to be true........... Like you said, it is human nature......comforting. We must come to the realization that beliefs can be dangerous. I like what you said about having all the doors and windows open. I also appreciate your honesty.......that I shouldn''t believe you just because you said so. The only real way to find truth is to experience it. Thank You
We are probably doing it all the time. Ideas and habits get so entrenched that we probably can't see them anymore.
I recently read a study of oil finishes and how they penetrate into hardwoods.They took equally sized pieces of different hardwoods and wiped some each day with drying oils for one week.They submerged some for three days and some for seven days.After allowing sufficient drying times they cut the pieces in half to see the amount of penetration.It was quite surprising to see how little oil actually penetrated past the surface.Of course the wood that was submerged for seven days had more than the others but it was not deep into the wood as you would hope for.There was very little difference from the wiped and three day submerged pieces.During the study they weighed each piece of wood before and after and they gained very little weight from the oil.If you ever break one of your older and well oiled handles it would be interesting to see the interior of the wood.
Thank you for your good advice and teaching...
I only found and watched this because I leave my wood and wood-handled tools outside too much/often - thanks for the good info presented thoughtfully and eloquently - but I highly enjoyed your philosophy of science mini lecture. I have to tell friends and family too often that I only "test drive" ideas - for a while or for years - and those ideas are independent of the individuals from whom I heard them. Now I'll have to figure out what to do with the "boiled" linseed oil I have on hand - it may not saturate before drying but it may do me enough good anyway. Thanks.
I like the test drive analogy, that's great!
I have some axe handles that I drilled a hole in the end of, filled with linseed oil (several times) and sealed back in 1980 or so. Seeing this video makes me want to try to inspect them to see if that was at all worth it.
I remember now hearing about people doing that, or suggesting it. I'm unwilling to sacrifice any entire tool handles just now, but I may change my mind...
haha.... enjoyed that you suddenly veered off into discussing belief....interesting how believing other peoples thoughts, or your own for that matter,..... is what creates the state of the world exactly as it is now or anytime....inquiring into your own beliefs is quite a challenging endeavor and the most powerfully freeing thing one can do..... thank you! .......bye......c
I think one of the most important things to realize is that we may be largely unaware of our own biases, unconscious motivations and just plain obvious wrongness. My dad once said to me that everyone can see our own bullshit better than we can.
I love when you oil a wooden handle. It becomes a darker brown, and shines.
Thank you for talking about concepts so we don't have to remember "the rules."
I've had people tell me this set of rules for oiling tool handles about times a day, then times a week, then times a month or something, and I was like I can't even remember that! And who cares anyway. How hot is it? what kind of wood? I have seen hickory that only soaks up a little, then that''s it, and other stuff that drinks oil like crazy.
Again I know it is an old video but my take has pretty much always been linseed oil. Recently been using Watco because I got several cans for a super discount. Its ok. For me this again falls into the category of things I dont think about much after the initial coating. Today I had a Ballistol coated rag and simply wiped everything around down with that. When I was younger the muzzleloading scene was where I found linseed and turpentine mix. It was the preferred finish when hand rubbed until it was hot in your hands. Left beautiful finishes. Curious as tonyour thouggts on soaking handles in kerosene. It was, and might still be, common practice to soak both tool handles and ramrods in kerosene. The difference in ramrod durability seemed to be substantial. Very forgiving and flexible. This kind of echos some points you have brought up.
Somenof the old ways in many things have turned out to be false so your points about keeping an open mind and assumptions are accurate IMO.
I like to use tru-oil for my wooden hammer and axe handles but am concerned about the safety even after looking at safety specs. i am definitely going to start using hand protection when applyling with an old cotton t shirt. I have also been a fan of mixing turpentine and boiled linseed oil 50/50, but will now use the raw linseed oil instead, maybe mixing with turpentine. My rule is work outside, avoid inhaling , and (now) wear hand protection. As always, thanks for these great videos!
I really like the plain edible oil. I can add oil anytime of day and just wipe it off my hands and go back to whatever I'm going or eat stuff with my hands etc. Especially if going for some degree of saturation, it has to be applied a lot unless soaked.
Always a great video I really enjoy your information
Joe
I'm going with my gut and I am subscribing.
I'll admit, I love being outdoors and working outdoors, but my experience with the ax nowadays commonly starts and stops at camping. We used to have a fireplace in my childhood home that we used liberally in the wintertime. I did so much chopping in the autumn days back then I think I still have the callouses lol. However, I couldn't agree with you more about the nature of "belief" and the problems of binary (true/false) thinking. The moment one starts to believe something, then by definition, they believe that the opposite of what they believe, or anything else in the spectrum between "true" and "untrue" (as they have now been established by belief), to be false. I've found that when one chooses to believe something, or especially "in" something or someone, they close many, MANY doors, and ultimately they shut themselves off from possibility.
Thanks a lot for the video dude, I wish I would have caught it two years ago when it came out, but better late than never :-)
Cold pressed oil has much smaller grain size than boiled linseed, according paint researcher Jon Brænne, and the more Northerly the flax grew the smaller the grain-size. This explains why Swedish linseed oil is preferable to German for paint making. The depth that the oil can penetrate wood is thus dependant on the size of the grains that make up the oil. He told me that his experiments showed that adding turpentine to the oil does not increase the depth the oil penetrates. The turpentine penetrates deeper than the oil and then has to just evaporate back out again in due course. The Application of paint is made easier by adding terps so still good reason to use it IMO, at least for that. Although an out spoken chap, Brænnes' influence on the State run antiquarians (riksantikvarene) is considerable here in Scandinavia. And understandably so since he has done very methodical research. But that oil made the wood stronger he was convinced was a myth, but I think he over looked some of the properties of oil impregnation. I think that the wave length or harmonic resonant frequencies of wood change with oil in them, but in the same way different grain patterns have a different feel at different impact levels. For this reason and others I have been using handles with grain perpendicular to the axe blade or hammer head, and find a pleasant increase in shock absorption at the expense of some strength. Great film, all the best, Lucas.
Great stuff!
I thought I should add, I use Ash handles and don't put any oil on them, but they get sweat on them. Also daylight, especially direct sunlight, will break down the glues that hold the fibres together causing cracks (often attributed to moisture), since oils and varnishes let light through this weakening happens whether oiled or not. This is the beauty of paint on wood, it stops the light reaching the fibres, as does the tool shed.
Handles first and then the tirade...I'm a recovering handle coater (swinging edge tools), and kicked the habit through observation. Coating wears, so why worry so much. I gradually became aware that the polish of use, is much more interesting than the gloss of finish.
Oil, and then on to the tirade...I've arrived to the same conclusions that you did about BLO but my problem has been finding an affordable source for raw linseed oil. I have 30+ wooden handles to maintain every year. Thoughts on sourcing?
On to the tirade...Bravo! We use authority and belief in many ways. Informationally (Miracle diet, Super-Food, Anti-oxidant), because it allows use to sign off on responsibility. A great example is Rome's use of lead to sweeten wine, and our modern belief that 'free range eggs, are much different than battery-caged.
Voyeuristically...Oh, watch someone cook, make something, opine, and now we don't have to!
Information comes from thousands of places in this day and age. Knowledge comes from experience...and that brings us back to participation and responsibility.
P. S. Did you flash a rawhide collar in this video? I need to try that stitch.
Someone left a comment saying to look into flax oil from feedstores sold in bulk. Worth checking into I'd say. Otherwise, I'm not sure. Even the cheapest stuff I find is still more than the 1 gallon can option of industrial stuff that I don't buy anymore.
Diet is the perfect example of a place people frequently put belief before action. The information age I'm hoping will eventually enlighten us more to the difference between information and knowledge. We'll see. It's inforhea out there.
That is the cheese glue and cloth wrap, not the rawhide one. It hasn't been used enough to say how it will hold up yet.
Found a bottle cheap enough to justify, First thing I noticed is raw oil's ability to penetrate. I keep feeding, and it keeps drinking, so I know it's sinking in.
On Another note. I'm tuning a CT B's axe for a gift, and the handle came unfinished!
The usual coating on the CT BA is some kind of wax that makes it unusable. Probably just supposed to protect the handle temporarily.
This came bare wood, and it was a happy surprise!
Hey, thanks for all your videos.
You're welcome.
I like Tung Oil. Used to be big in my area. Ted Turner just tore down the old tung oil facility a mile from my property. Used to be number one until polyurethane. I like it except for the smell. Most all drying oils will slightly emulsify in water but resist at first. What I like is the dying oils soak in a bit, but polyurethane is on the surface like paint.
I'm not too familiar I think for handle saturation, anything reasonably drying is fine. Mr. chickadee just uses cheap veg oil.
I recently have switched to BLO/pine tar mix that logcabinlooms speaks of. I like the darker color it gives the wood (unnessary I know) my thoughts behind it is, the oil penetrates and the tar leaves a water proof coating. I really have no idea if it's any better or the same as just BLO? Figure I have nothing too loose. I have recently read some older books on early settlement, 1800's ect... The talk about BLO, Pine Tar and Turpentine in these books. Seems like they used these 3 things on everything. Not always together but they were common back then. I like simple.
I haven't got into pine tar at all yet, but I've done a few things with raw pitch mixed with oil and beeswax. I have plans to try all that stuff more, either with a solvent, or with heat to allow penetration, but I'd prefer heat. Pitch sure makes sense from a preservative standpoint and for permanence.
Pine tar deters rot
@@samhansen9771 yes
I see you have had your fill of trolls also. Good to see you out there and looking better.
I really don't get very many actually, surpisingly few. I get more on videos that reach the general public more, rather than the people that are already into this stuff. Honestly, sometimes it's fun to tear them a new one :) I just think it's really not good how easily people believe stuff and how much they try to use it to even just have a position on something they don't need to have a position about at all.
Your thoughts on beliefs reminded me of a quote. Although the author wasn't oiling handles he did have his on unique problems and battles. " Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes a begging.” Martin Luther. R
Great info Steven. I love these chalkboard videos. I use organic flax seed oil to season all my cast iron too.
do you get an actual baked on thick finish like old cast iron gets? I've not had much luck building that up on my pans, but I think it may be because I cook with almost no drying or partially drying oils.
SkillCult yes. I keep a small container of flaxseed oil in the fridge with a little sponge. After I cook with and clean the pan, I lightly coat it, heat it to smoke point and wipe all the excess oil of with a clean rag. Every single time. Amazing seasoning.
I left a message on your website too. Trying to buy your tanning book.
Ever tried using scotch broom for the wood? I've made a little hatchet handle, and some knife handles from it. It can be an attractive wood
I haven't. I'll keep my eyes out for big pieces to play with.
Good video and i saw your little tirade as a bonus. Love where your thoughts are at.
I was working with a shipwright before, the project was a replica of the Danish Skuldelev 6 Longboat made from green (unseasoned) oak. Reason why green: seasoned oak would be much harder to work with. However this introduced a lot of shrinkage, warping, twisting and splitting into the workflow. I came back after a weekend to find a 1/4" gap in each of the decking planks I'd laid down, these same planks were snug on Friday when I set them.
Ideally (spoke the shipwright) we'd be using a series of fine pine tar oils. These oils were graded to suit different wood wetness and you'd work through them in sequence; starting with the lightest for maximum penetration, and as the wood cured using the 'coarser' oil to just soak into the surface a bit.
But this would have cost 100's of monies so we used vegetable oil to coat the wood instead This helped replace the lost moisture with a more stable oil and helped reduce the worst of the drying distresses in the planks. And it worked pretty well! Though without the glorious pineyous smell of the real tar oil.
(I then decided to use veg oil to coat some tools I'd salvaged and cleaned which was a terrible idea, the oil just dried like a skin on them and gummed up the workings. I use DT5 oil for protecting them now, does a good job).
What dilutes the pine tar oil? Turps?
@@AldoSchmedack As far as I know (and I don't know very far) the oils used to protect the drying wood are used as is, they're not concentrate and don't require thinning. They're not actually a raw pine tar, but a pre-processed derivative. But that isn't the question you asked; I'm not sure what would be used to thin the tar if you needed to do so, it wasn't a situation we encountered.
I get you. Keep up the good work
Preach on brother! I believe! Lol, honestly great video man. Great way to look and think about things and thanks for your thoughts on oiling!
Amen brother.
Ah, you did the German three, you Inglorious Basterd. 😜😜😜 Great info. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the video, you provided lots of good insight into the subject. Pocket83 sent me here!
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your approach on oiling tool handles:)
Ive been using the terp mix method aswell. start with 25/75 oil to tarp. than 50/50, then 75/25 followed by pure linseed oil. Same idea as you put it on each time untill wood doesnt take up anymore, then move on to next ratio.
You might find a drum or big can in animal feed suppliers. where i get mine its 100% raw for 5L for the same price as 750ML 'boiled' linseed oil in the hardware shop !
Keep it up man!
Excellent tip on the feed store oil. I'll check it out!
I used to get it by the gallon for free via a local farmer I used to do odd jobs for. He grew about a thousand acres of linseed every year and cart it to the oil pressing plant and he could always scrounge a few gallons. I wish I had laid down a store when I had the chance. A change of manager at the plant and that gig was over :
Even off-the-cuff, great vid - thanks! Any thoughts regarding pine tar/pitch in these applications? I vaguely remember you mentioning that you contemplated doing some experiments with them.
+drason69 I have plans to experiment, but I haven't yet. I like the idea of pitch, but who knows. I know some use pine tar. The issue with either is getting them to penetrate when it's thick or solid at room temp, so either heat or solvent would be required.
Great video...subscribed
I have seen some videos and articles talking about linseed oil (both boiled, raw, and food grade flaxseed oil). They say all have proteins that can go rancid and allow organisms to grow on the wood. They claimed that purified linseed oil is pure oil with all the proteins and other stuff removed. Of the purified linseed oils, there are two varieties (raw and boiled). I just ordered a quart of Scandinavian purified boiled linseed oil to try on an unfinished black walnut rifle stock. I will probably get a little bit of purified raw linseed oil to test.
Could be. I don't think I've seen it to be a problem. Some just bring it to heat and skim the scum off to purify a little bit.
@@SkillCult yeah - it is difficult to know unless one does their own experiment (could just be marketing)
it's pretty expensive but take a look at Allback linseed oil. I'm currently using the "boiled" version and it seems to soak in quickly and dries relatively fast if you're using infrared heat. doesn't contain any solvents or drying agents and lacks the proteins you find in food grade linseed oil that can lead to premature degradation i.e. mold, mildew etc. I believe it's produced for antique restoration. I've been using it for some time now and it's a joy to work with.
Thanks. I think the proteins can be precipitated by heating or other processes. I'm sure my old formulas books have that information. I know there are some non-toxic metals that can be used as driers. Iron is one of them. But presumably they are less effective. I have a lot yet to research on linseed and the other drying oils.
that is useful to me, ive been wanting to try raw flax oil so i don't have to worry about solvents. Also i love your tirade. mindlessly following Authority is dangerous and dumb especially in 2020
Have you tried the 50/50 mix of linseed oil and turpintine ?
My Grandfather used it on all his tool handles and a couple rifle stocks.
Thanks for another informative video! During the holidays, I've been scraping off the BLO from my other restored handles, getting them back down to bare wood, then trying the raw linseed oil. I must say, so far so good -- the oil is really absorbing into the wood without any tackiness on the surface. For my next set of fresh handles, I may make a tube out of PVC pipe, fill it with oil, and allow the handles to soak for a few days. I'm curious to hear if you think that would be worthwhile. Thanks!
I've been planning to do that for a couple of years here, but haven't tried it yet. I was thinking of using black ABS and figuring out fittings that would allow my to leave the oil in and seal the end up when it's not in use. Set in the sun, that should get pretty warm and speed things up. That could make some interesting experiments possible. That might allow really full penetration and saturation if that's what we want. I'm not sure it is. but I'd like to try it. I should hit the hardware store next time I go to town and get that set up.
"We dont need belief"
Thanks for sharing your belief
Thanks for your contribution to my ongoing informal observations on words, meaning and the belief complex.
A+ tirade at the end there. Steven do you have any thoughts on oil for wooden bows? Linseed still basically the best? Just wondering if a drying and hardening oil would affect bending wood at all. Thanks!
Well, I guess the one thing I would say is that I'd be cautious about saturating a bow like that. I have a gut feeling it would start to follow or become sluggish or something. Otherwise, linseed or any drying oil ought to be fine. I think a lot of people use beeswax or a beeswax oil mix.
Have you considered getting a piece of pvc pipe and putting a glued cap on one end then stick a handle inside the pipe and pour in oil and let it soak for days.
That has been on my to do list for years lol. I think the way to go is black ABS. You could put it in the sun to heat up. It would take a lot of oil, but I think you could probably get away with using some cheap veg oils like canola and corn oil. They are fairly far onto the drying side of the scale. I'm not sure how much better ABS would be for resisting UV light, but it is probably best to paint it whatever is used.
I dig what you're saying here on belief. Years ago I saw a bit on a tv show where one one the characters talked about the search for truth. In the scene he said that the search was like shining a bright flashlight into a dark room, and that the narrower, brighter beam lit up one small part of the room, at the expense of the shadows in the rest of the room.
Okay, I'm going to go figure out some stuff on my own. I bet I'll make some mistakes. I bet I'll learn from them. Hopefully.
That's an interesting analogy. I think there is often an over emphasis on solidifying and proving things that can lead to rigidity and closes the doors of perception. We all live in a mental maze by necessity, but certain habits, thought patterns and language can really limit our thinking. If we over value facts and their pursuit and importance, then we are more likely to find them when they aren't there and use those as roadblocks to further inquiry. Science is largely based on proving out knowledge to build on and I think the valuation of that can easily lead to misuse of the concept, outside of it's original intent. Too often when we talk about facts, we are actually describing about belief. Like any of the rest of it, the distinction is not always clear.
Yes, water in wood, air drying and forced kiln drying will break open the cells releasing water past air drying. Was the end more smoke from the recent fires or a foggy morning? Handle finishes are fun. One thing I have have found is time and dirt put a polished finish on a well used handle, nothing like the old timer you mentioned though. I do find my most used handle has a nice gloss to it with little to no finish what so ever. I will now consider this info and work it into my process.... it will penetrate.
That was fog. I've read stuff before about bound moisture that is part of cells taking longer to leave, but reading more about it, there isn't a lot of solid info on it. I was reading an interesting paper on changes wood undergoes in seasoning, but their findings were essentially different from other previous studies on the same. They were all also looking at mostly very old wood, 60 years and more, compared to fresh dried wood. I'm interested in the first 20 or 30 years. The loss of bound water thing is possibly true in leather and hides as well, though I think it might also be degradation of proteins the that hold water in the skin and I don't know what that mechanism is. I'm not sure why he likes to resoak in that 50/50 in the off season. it may have to do with flexibility. Of course 50/50 solvent and oil is not just oil and maybe it is beneficial in some way to have that solvent or solved oil in the heart of that handle. He recommended that I treat some handles and test them against controls in a hydraulic press. I'd like to do that sometime. Nothing polishes like use. People ask me sometimes how to polish handles and make them look used. I'd feel like dumbass doing that. just use it. It takes surprisingly little work. One side effect of the cordwood challenge I'm hoping for is more dirty axes on youtube lol.
downeast primitive skills I agree on the well used tools needing very little...it seems like it's the little used tools that should be protected, so that when they are pulled out to do that specialized job they're in good shape.
i dig what you put down, my friend :) thanks for the videos :)
I have always been told to use boiled linseed oil (not the newer stuff) and mix it with turpentine and beeswax. This is probably better for the final coat.
beeswax was commonly used in high gloss rubbed furniture waxes in the old days.
I found a Double boiled linseed oil in canada that does not have any solvents, agents or metal in it. It's a twice boiled linseed oil and is not expensive, just a bit more than raw oil.
That's cool. The minerals they add do contribute to hardness as well, but it doesn't really matter for handles, more for coatings, paint, lacquer type stuff.
@@SkillCult i got one can. I will try it on my ace handle and let you know. I look at the safty data sheet of all the products I use.
Binging these videos 3 years later, lol
I also have somewhat of an intuitive dislike for coating wood; it loses its feel and might as well be laminated plastic at this point. Ive been experimenting with deeply impregnating wooden objects in bees wax, by keeping them submerged in the oven at 80c. Its hard to get wood to be truly moisture proof; water can wick along cellulose fibres through nanoscopic pores that bigger molecules cant get into, allegedly. So standing water will always have a long term effect without a coating maybe. But it works great for cutting boards for instance; run it under hot water to clean and it seals right up again, looking good as new. Never tried raw linseed oil in such a manner though. Anyway my 2 cents of personal observation. Love the rant at the end as well. As much as I love the pursuit of knowledge, I think I can do entirely without those who are convinced they have found it.
I've done saturation with pitch/beeswax/oil mix. I'd worry at that temp might damage the wood for handle material, but who knows. I'll be doing some more experiments soon too, probably including wax mixes. Try a tool handle with drying oil, it's cool!
@@SkillCult Bees wax melts at 63; I just take it up to 80 because going a little over the melting point tends to drastically reduce the viscosity of most things, which should help with impregnation. But thats nothing patience couldnt solve; or maybe it does not matter in the first place because I cant say ive systematically experimented with different temperatures. Over 85c browns the beeswax though.
Your video does make me want to try raw drying oils; I bought the boiled stuff like most people recommend but I wasnt happy with the amount of impregnation I was getting, relative to the amount of effort/solvent put in. But your approach looks like itd get me the result I want. Might be fun to experiment with vacuum bagging the drying oils into the wood as well...
Thank you for the comprehensive analysis of the matter.Your way of thinking resembles the Ancients Greeks one ! Check it out!!!
I like the idea of soaking the tools in the off season, but soaking all the long handled tools like shovels and rakes would take quite a bit of oil. Maybe a pipe filled with oil and you could cycle out tools in it for a week at a time throughout the year. Im not sure what the turpentine does though. Does that break down the “plastic” coating to allow more linseed oil to penetrate deeper?
I've been meaning to get together some different lengths of black ABS tubing to make handle soakers. Turpentine thins the oil. It might allow for deepr penetration, or faster, but it is not pure oil then.
SkillCult I was a little worried about pvc or abs because the oil might react with them. I have a bunch of scrap pvc pieces all sizes up to 4” diameter.
Great way to look at it. For total penetration you need a vacuum chamber but it will Defoe make harder an yet brittle. Paint is what you get from the oil and turps. Bees wax is really good too and has been a good thing for the bees too they make this for a reason . Hope you keep keeping on buddy and love life and I really mean love this life treat it with respect and keep keeping on. I don’t comment on many vids. Have a great day buddy.
You are a good brother . Stay lit
You can use vacuum chamber to penetrate it even deeper. Cheers from Czech Republic 🇨🇿😊
Thank you btw.
How do you think some of this might be applied toward preparing reclaimed Douglas Fir for use in kitchen cabinets? I hate to just coat them with plastic, which is what most of the finishes seem to be. But I also don't want to get swept up in the hype of "miracle" oils, waxes, etc..
I wouldn't. I don't think you'll like the look. At least experiment first. Maybe if you put a wax or sometihng on top. But kitchen cabinets are going to get pretty grimy if they are not sealed. I'd probably look into a water based polyurethane like Bon Chemi. That stuff is amazing and goes on without any odor. I've done a couple of old fir floors with it. Super tough and looks great. You can get it in a satin if you dont' want the gloss look.
Thanks for the deep dives
Your welcome :)
Have you tried using a "wood hardner" then try to add the oil?
No, sounds too high tech for me. I'm happy with the oil.
I want to do this to my opinel 8. My question is will this swell the wood and make it difficult to open the blade? Any help would be appreciated!
Yes and even worse, the oil will gum up too. I would just do coats on the lower part of the handle and stay away from the hinge. that is what I did with mine.
My experience is saturation is only possible in a vacuum chamber. I built a small vacuum chamber from an a/c compressor and use it for stabilising wooden knife handles.
I will try that one day, I have a small vacuum plant. They do telegraph poles like that for impregnating creosote. Heat the poles in a vacuum chamber to drive off water, then introduce the creosote and cook it under pressure to get a penetration of 2 to 3 inches.
Be fun to try, but utterly impractical for most. I like starting off with thinned linseed and then straight linseed till it will drink no more. Simple and does the job just fine
When final coat is done is the wood oily? When used in a hot environment does it deep oil out?
not when it really cures out, which doesn't take very long.
Love sign ... Linseed oil is same as Flax oil? ps you are doing good sharing ... thank you ... do yo have visiting hours?
yes
Yep, same stuff. No visiting hours. I'm a recluse.
Flax seed is what it's usually called when it's food safe.
can you use food safe flax oil like linseed oil?
Yes. Possible differences, some pointed out it contains impurities that can be precipitated out by cooking or other methods. hasn't seemed like a problem for me. The only other thing I can think of is that they may use different strains of flax for food or industrial use oils. But, given that the oils the health food people want are the same unstable drying fatty acids, it doesn't seem like an issue. I've used it a lot now and it seems to work fine right out of the bottle.
Thanks for sharing this!
You're welcome.
I like to think if someone is so sure of their opinions, they haven't walked a mile in the right set of shoes yet. Also did your friend use regular linseed oil mixed with turpentine or did he use boiled linseed oil with turpentine...I want to try a real soaking as I believe it'll really get to the core of the wood and pride the most strength in the most efficient way I had to get the boiled linseed at home depot because it was all they had but ill be picking up flax oil and turpentine tomorrow and trying it on my shovel
He said he uses raw oil, then cooks and skims it.
@@SkillCult ok that sounds like a good method
So... How do you actually go about saturating your different types of wooden handles and tools?
successive coats of raw linseed, allowing them to soak in between coats, until it stops taking oil.