The Big Problem with Running Slow to Run Faster (MAFFETONE METHOD)
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- If you've ever looked into low heart rate training, or been interested in the idea of running slow to run faster, you've probably come across Dr. Phil Maffetone and the MAF method. In this video I want to share my thoughts on how I'm going to be incorporating MAF training into my aerobic base building phase of training, and how I'm planning to modify and adapt the Maffetone method a little as i work towards my sub 3-hour marathon goal.
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ABOUT ME: I'm James Dunne, a runner, sports rehabilitation therapist (similar to physical therapist) and coach based in the UK (Norwich and London).
Since 2007 I've been working with athletes focusing specifically on helping distance runners and triathletes overcome injury and improve performance through developing their individual running technique.
Running biomechanics and physical therapy are real passions of mine. I love to help runners run strong and stay injury free.
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My running watch, the forerunner 35 doesn't give accurate heart rate, what do I do
@@imonbora9271 Try a Garmin HRM. I use this for my weekend long run (Maffetone pace). I use a FR 45, which is OK. But I like to have the HRM on long runs
I have followed the MAF method for 8 months. I started at 7.30/km at 130 bpm and now can run at 5.20/km pace. It has also improved my 5k time from approximately 21 min to 18.45. I was blown away by this improvement in speed. Now introducing speed work once a week. I also lost 2.5 stone by following a low carb medetarian diet. Feeling great at 53 and running faster and further than I have in the last 10 years.
Well done!
Wow
Wow! Pretty impressive! To break 20 minutes on a 5 km run is something to be proud of.
A question for you - how much per week were you doing to get that result? What sort of training schedule over the eight months?
so happy for you!!
100% agree with what you said. Best MAF advice I’ve heard. I made huge improvements once I added strides to my easy MAF runs
Good, I'm glad to hear someone talk about the need for "some" faster (for you!) running, in addition to the easy relaxed low HR work.
Went down the MAF rabbit hole via Floris and love it. Started 11:19 a mile, now down to as low as 8:34 a mile 6 months later, adding speed work after 4 months. All sorts of PBs. Best mile time was 6:47 and now 5:33. 5k now under 20min. Aiming for a half marathon April 25 under 90 minutes. Age 41. Excited to see your progress and MAF method gain a farther reach through your followers.
Great results, Andrew! Thanks for sharing. How much volume and how many training days a week during those first 4 months?
great improvement, how many miles per week are you running?
@@sandrosantos9791 sorry just saw this. I ran about 50-60 miles a week for three weeks and then a scale back week of 20%
@@John_Wood_ about 55-60 miles a week. I peaked at 66 miles, around 9:30-10:00 min/mile pace. Every fourth week I would scale back by 25%
Can I ask a question. For the 4 months did you literally do zero work above MAF HR?
Another excellent episode James! I absolutely struggle with heart rate training, but I’m going to give it a try- thanks for the inspiration!
The reason I discovered and subscribed to your channel, was because I developed right hip flexor tendinitis after 4 months of MAF training.
I never did any strides as you mentioned.
Just aerobic training. I thank you James for helping me heal. Glad you mentioned incorporating fast strides. Now I’m doing 80/20 training and my slow runs are by perceived effort. This is working so I will stick with it.
Keep up the awesome videos coming
And best to you on achieving your sub 3 hr. Goal.
Takes patience - but checks boxes in terms of reducing risk of injuries, enabling consistency and destressing. I adopted it 6 months ago. Currently on day 144 of a run streak - anything to handle the endless 'lockdown' in Ireland. Best of luck with the sub 3 project. The S&C and mobility videos are awesome ! Thanks James
Good video. I´ve been running at MAF almost exclusively for 18 months now. The first three weeks of MAF training was the worst time I´ve ever had while running. Wose than being injured. My ego took a real beating. So frustrating! I was close to tears at one point and I nearly smashed my running watch out of sheer frustration. I had to slow down from around 5:20 / km to 7 min / km. Everyone was passing me and my HR alarm was constantly going off. It seemed like I couldn't run for 30 seconds without having to stop and walk to bring the HR down. But it got better. Improvements came slowly but steadily.
I'm now running between 5:20 - 4:55 / km at my MAF HR, depending on the day. Before MAF I was running about 35 - 40km a week and every time I tried to up my volume I would get hit with runner's knee. Now I consistently run 80 - 100km a week and runner's knee is a thing of the past.
The MAF method isn't exclusively running slowly and this is a misconception many people seem to have. There is a time and place for speedwork or rather efforts at higher HR. Those who have never built their aerobic engine before (like me) can make incredible progress just with running in the MAF range for a long period of time. In the 18 months I've been running at MAF I've only done about 8 higher intensity workouts. I did this mostly to add some variety to my training and to see how I was progressing but I stayed strictly within my MAF range for a full 11 months before trying anything 'harder'.
My higher intensity efforts were all guided by HR, eg: I'd add 30 mins at zone 3 / tempo to a normal 80 minute run, so 30 min WU in MAF range, 30 mins tempo, then 20 min easy with a walk home once I finish.
Strides are excellent and a perfect complement for MAF training imo. I do between 6 - 10 strides after a run 2 or 3 times a week.
I really agree with the changes or tweaks you're making to your MAF training. Some people change it too much and insist on still doing some speedwork when they just start out at MAF which is wrong imo. What you're doing is still pure MAF. The strides won't elevate the HR above aerobic zone for a long enough time to have a negative affect on your training and I think there is minimal injury risk with this.
Fantastic information! Very clear and concise
Great video and your tweaks make perfect sense 👍
Good plan. I did 7 months of pure MAF in 2019 using the 180 formula. During that time I improved by about a minute per mile at my MAF HR, but when I started to re-introduce intervals I realised I'd completely lost all my ability at higher intensities. I abandoned MAF after struggling around the 2019 Berlin Marathon in 3:59. Since returning to more traditional methods (all my easy runs and some workouts are now done by feel, blind to the watch) I've improved to 3:19 (Goodwood Marathon 2020, 54yo). However, I don't regret trying MAF. It gave me a good base and I learned several valuable lessons during the experiment.
Can you do some days maf and some days intervals?
@@david7101 That is where I am thinking, this guy just described dropping his old routine, which made faster, to strictly do a single method. Seems obvious that you would slow down overall, if you cut out interval training, as the pros might to TONS of easy running, they still do TONS of elite training too
@@jf8138exactly, why didn’t he add the speed workouts sooner?
7 months is not enough time to give MAF a fair chance. That is the point at which you can introduce once a week interval training while maintaining your MAF heartrate on all of your other runs. With once a week interval training, your natural stride will return after awhile. You can start racing 10 k races, which will also improve your stride. 3:19 is an impressive marathon time at age 54. With consistent MAF training you could go under 3:10. When I look back I wish I had started MAF training from the beginning. I'll never know what my PB (3:16 age 55) could have been.
Thanks for sharing your experiences 👍
The main benefit of low heart rate training is staying injury free. Training to HR means if you are feeling terrible one day your hr dictates the pace so you're not overdoing it trying to chase a specific pace. So my slow runs based on HR range from around 4:40 per km to 5:30 based on how my body is feeling on that particular day.
This make a perfect sense. Thanks!
I switched to MAF in the first lock down and just got slower and slower - never n . Switched to this training plan by this bloke called James Dunne and everything is rosey and I am really making progress!! I think I needed the hilly tempo and the strength and mobility training. Funnily enough, I can now run at MAF past on my easy runs which I couldn't when I was on MAF training. Thanks James for the great training and vlogs, good luck with you marathon ambitions!
I've been plugging away with MAF aswell for 6 months and seeing no great progress in terms of speed. Been able to increase duration and stayed relatively injury free. Might need to add some hills!
Coincidentally, you and I are starting MAF training at the exact same time. This is my first time trying it. Looking forward to following your journey as I also go on mine over here across the pond!
New to the channel. Really enjoying and finding informative. Many thanks.
I did MAF for my last marathon did it pretty strictly for 6 months then added a little speed work. At 132HR I went from about 10.20 / mile to 8.50 / mile. Did the marathon at about MAF + 5 and average 8.36 and felt really good. The longer runs at or below MAF really helped me.
great improvement, how many miles per week were you running at that time?
I started doing something similar based on a program my smart watch gave me. I was using below 70% of my max heart rate at roughly 140. I found out painfully slow and difficult to hold, was often changing to brisk walk. However I then went for a VO2 max test and as part of it my aerobic and anaerobic thresholds were defined. I was given an aerobic threshold of 151 and advised I should be doing my slow runs below that. Using this as my threshold made things a lot better to manage and it does still feel easy. Been running at that for a while now and definitely seeing my pace improve at that pace
Currently using it. Made big improvements! Some speed work is still needed tho.
Hi James, thank you so much for a great topic!!! I'm learning to run slow but t's even harder that run faster :) at least for me. I'm almost struggling with it, because I need to almost walk to get below 135. But this is what I really want to achieve, easy/aerobic base runs mostly with low HR and I've just started to add some strides at the end, just 400-500m up to 1K.
This was heaps helpful thank you!
Why not just do 80/20 as per Matt Fitzgerald? Same principle large volume of easy running with smaller volume of harder running. The key is understanding what easy running actually means for your current fitness level, time of day, temperature and humidity etc.
I find a simple well of checking if your easy runs are at the right level is to see if you can breathe in and out through your nose all the time, you get very instantaneous feedback if not, the advantages of this (as I see it) are you don’t need to use any HR data which relies on actually knowing a number of parameters, such as your max HR for running, assumes your device measures your HR accurately etc.
The theory goes that, at least to begin with, the 20% of higher intensity still gives plenty of scope for overworking the system. Maffetone allows for moving onto 80/20 once aerobic base improvements have plateaued. Also, unless I have misunderstood, Maffetone is all about learning how to pace slower runs with the aim of ditching reliance on HR as a measure of what is appropriate. MAF HR is just a starting point for this along with being a useful bnchmark for use in periodic MAF tests.
Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 is a misinterpretation of the research.
Thanks for this. I am 71 and starting to get some knee and right leg weakness. I haven't run regularly in the last few months and when I do it feels okay besides the right leg. I also road bike from 40 -70kms once a week at about 130BPM. 109 bpm seems very very slow. I've always run a high heart rate 140- 160 with no big issues for the last 32 years. I think I should try the MAF method. I'd like to build back up to a half marathon over the next number of months.
Thank you for a great video!
You bring so much to table 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I started MAF training a couple of weeks ago after coming back from an injury. Its definately time to forget any ego on paces, I was really surprised how difficult it is to keep to 131 HR target, my average pace has come down by at least 2 mins per KM and I end up having to walk up the hills. I like the idea of adding in a few strides at the end of some of my runs to give the legs a quicker turnover.
I started MAF training 3.5 years ago. At that time I ran a half marathon at 1:42 at age 66. Three years later, at age 69 I ran the half marathon in 1:38. MAF works. I no longer stress about tempo runs and long runs at a certain pace. I go by heart rate. When it is hot and humid, I have to slow down, when it is cool and dry, I can go faster. All at the same heart rate. It is amazing. Once a week I do about half an hour of interval training, alternating weeks between hills and flat ground.
If you do maf training are you able to recover from running everyday? I am new and only run 2-3 miles a day
@jason c Yes because you're at it in z1, which is basically very low intensity so you can repeat daily.
So at 70 years old now, are you keeping your HR below 115 still? (180-age+5 for being fit). Many thanks (71 year old here ;)
@@StefCoetzee I keep my heart rate between 115 and 120. Maffatone says that after age 65 you have a little leeway to go slightly higher. I aim for about 117 to 118.
@@tackjibe many thanks - very useful and much appreciated 👍
I did MAF base for 20 weeks then on to a more 80/20 approach for ultra training. Your tweak seems very sensible. Neural pathways are so important in form. MAF is good for volume and recovery. But I think your idea will reap more benefits with speed through efficiency, and more importantly through injury prevention after base phase. Good luck!
I have a great experience doing MAF training. I went from 7 min/km to 5:15 min/km at MAF HR last year. I stopped running for 3 months, so am now starting to build up fitness, and doing MAF again. Already seen great progress in one month of running. And best of all: no injuries!
Thank you for sharing this story! I am running super slowly at the moment starting with MAF, and comments like this are so reassuring. :)
I just started last month on my structured running when the pandemic subside, we have the similar method. I'm currently at my base phase MAF. Doing strides intervals right after the long steady easy MAF session.
At 61 I Started MAF appx. 9 months ago. I've experienced great results. My speed has increased, I get more miles in each week and actually enjoy running now. Before MAF I had to force myself to run because of the stress on my body. I can now run multiple days in a row if I want due to shorter recovery time and no injuries. After 6 months of just MAF I have added some speed and hill intervals. Another benefit of MAF is a focus on good nutrition. So with better nutrition and more running I have also lost weight!
I've only been running for 2 years, and really started running more in March of last year. Last November I bought a heart rate chest strap and went full zone 2 running (using HRR zones), around my maf number, it was very difficult at first. I actually got even slower for a couple of weeks. But after 4 months or so it's been amazing, i'm still running slower than i used to but my heart rate is staying in the 130's and my pace is improving slowly by the month. I've run half marathon distance 3 times this year, my longest runs, and 2 weeks ago was first time I did HM distance in zone 2. My legs don't ache every morning now and i'm working on upping my weekly distance (doing around 50-60km currently).
I think the moment I realised it was really working was when I was running along in Feb or March, and my mind had wandered for a moment and I realised that I was completely comfortable running, no heavy breathing or feeling tired, just could keep going until I got bored(or my legs give up). Can't recommend it enough.
Very good advice James.. I did a full year of low HR training (it did work wonders for my aerobic base) but then after that when I introduced a hard tempo run once a week I soon got a case of plantar fasciitis. Just recovered from that and I think I'll follow your tip to build a few pick ups and strides in before starting the high intensity work again.
Re: MAF formula, its pretty good for approximating your starting aerobic threshold HR but it doesn't take into account that this level drifts upwards over the months with aerobic training. I started at 138bpm but after a year of low HR training my AeT was 150+ bpm. That said I mostly shoot for low 140s so I can easily keep the volume up without risking injuries
Really interesting topic.
I'm new to running so new to this method of training, but because I am 47 and ache a lot after running I looked into it and I must say how much more I enjoy it. I jog alongside my hubby who walks and my average mile takes around 20 mins and my heart rate is around 125-130, occasionally it increases with unavoidable hills, but I have felt a lot better with this style of slow running. Zero body aches after. I can hold this jogging pace for a few hours too without fatigue.
After having a few heart attacks two years ago, I had to start all over again with C25K, then moved on to base running (essentially LHR or Maffetone). I'm now able to run a HM in 2 hours and a marathon in 4:45 hours with a zone 3 heart rate. It works, just takes patience.
If you have patience it works. I do majority of my runs around 132-135 bpm. I’ve noticed my paces are increasing on my faster efforts. I also work on my form during my slower runs.
Awesome Claire!
I've done MAF for over 2 years but I was already running really slow on my easy days so for me it was not a big adjustment. I have improved a bit but not that much. I have improved a lot since I started incorporating workouts and working with a coach that uses power as the main guide for my training. HR can be affected by so many things that I find it quite unreliable. If your HR strap is not wet enough, if your HR strap has other technical issues, if you drink a lot of coffee, if the weather is really humid, the lag in feedback to the watch, etc, etc. I find that power is a much more powerful tool and reliable as well. I have been running for 15 years and my fitness level has never been this high.
Your comment is three years ago but nevertheless I got curious about "power". What did you mean by that? You had a coach who used power and apparently that was better than the strap at that time, but why? I'm using a smartwatch (heart rate) and I'm interested in learning more. Greetings from Germany :)
@@NoNameArtist89 there is a device called a Stryd footpod that you place on your shoes and it gives you many metrics one of which is running power (the amount of force your produce into the ground when running.) You can do several tests that determine your running zones (a bit like heart rate) and so the workouts that my coach would prescribe were based on this running power metric. For me it was better than other methods because running power is not affected by other factors like HR is (caffeine, tiredness, etc.)
I started with MAF to tackle the aerobic deficiency syndrome (ads) as it's a good baseline to start with. Now my calculated HR zones are based on AeT and AnT.
I really do enjoy those low intensity runs.
You are absolutely correct about the leg speed issue with low heart rate training. I did MAF for 2.5 months and my MAF pace plateaued and would not budge for weeks. Out of frustration I did some faster running and my MAF pace *immediately* started dropping and over a few weeks came down by 35 seconds per mile. This is clearly a neuromuscular issue, and while I will always emphasize low heart rate training. I will also make it a point to add in bits of speed for muscle recruitment, etc. Something as little as strides a couple of times a week is enough when not training for races. You have to keep the body guessing! Interested to follow your journey to sub-3!
That is actually part of the MAF method. When your MAF pace starts to plateau, you add in some hard workouts; but only after you established a good aerobic base.
Good stuff
Science of Ultra has published a great article / podcast this week about Training Intensity Distributions. Highly recommended, it talks about polarised and more importantly pyramidal distributions and misunderstandings with 80/20 etc
What i found with maf in the last year is how to run easy. Maf in the last year has gone for 7min/km down to 5:35/km at 128HR. I now started this year to do more 80/20. But i know how to run easy now most of my runs avg 125 HR at just under 6min/km which I'm happy with.
I agree with this. I'm not an exercise scientist but have read some very convincing takedowns of MAF by people who are, however, almost all of them agree that easy running should be the bulk of your training time, especially in the early part of a training cycle. The best runners in the world mostly train that way (there are a few exceptions, like everything else, nothing is universal). Many of us never learn easy running because we start off at a fairly low level of fitness and always associate running with working hard. Many of us are also out of touch with our bodies and can't really tell how hard we're working or when our breathing rate is increasing. It can help a lot to have an objective measure (HR) to use as a tool to keep you at an easy pace and give you feedback about how that feels.
I followed MAF for several months and found my pace improving from14' to 12' miles but didn't add the extra bits of speed work as James described so my race performance suffered - 1'30" a mile below my PB. Thanks for the insight!
Thank you so much for your video helps me run
My wife and I are in our first week. I've gone from a 7 minute km to 9! Lots of walking too! We are in our mid 50s, avid 30-40 kns a week runners but not improving speedwise and lots of chronic niggles and knee pains. So far so slow HOWEVER both of us agree that we've increased our volume and have zero pain! That's the best part! 👌
Check pur the Knee over Tore gut here on CZcams. Help me a lot for me knees and recover from a Borken ankle
Polarized training. Check out Matt Fitzgerald’s book 80/20 running.
Maffetone allows for this as a next step once aerobic base improvements plateau.
@@pam00088 and that seems to be ideal. Build good foundations because everything else is depending on them. 80/20 is a great way to live a running life.
That’s how all runners train though.
This is the way
@@TheSteinbitt all elite runners maybe. Most hobby runners do more like 0/20 where the other 80 is medium effort
I used the MAF method for over a year and found it let me get really high weekly volume - up to 120km per week. Importantly I also went injury free for months, unlike when I trained with a classic mix of speed sessions, long runs and tempo sessions. I also lost a lot of weight, with all that steady state activity.
With regards to being a slow runner, I did MAF level but with a focus on keeping a high cadence. This was really easy to convert to speed when I took of the heart rate alert for a quick parkrun - surprisingly quick for me. So, from my experience I don't agree with the 'slow runner' from MAF thought.
Looking forward to following this journey.
Really appreciate this. I am a novice runner, looking to get a sub 3.30 in September and found the MAF PDF abput 3 weeks ago. Ive managed to get up to 80k average since. Currently doing zero training beyond 145bpm. I dont have 20 weeks so going for 8 before reintroducing some speedy stuff. Very interested to see your progress. Thanks for sharing
80k? A week? As a novice runner as in from zero. And then 8 weeks to make 3.30. That’s impressive
@@canningsimonha not quite. I've played football from a young age. Prob averaged 30-40k a week for past 20 years without consciously adding it up but never ran more than a 10k until last spring.
Some great pointers in that video. I've never followed MAF training, but I have a similar approach to my running (my max HR reaches 200 bpm at the end of a 5k race, when sprinting to the finish line and giving all I've got), and I do most of my base endurance training at around 145 bpm. HR is a great effort indicator, and it helps me stay in the proper zone during extreme weather conditions (wind, heat, humidity). I also agree, training there all the time won't make you faster, if you want to do so, you need some faster running in there as well (tempos, strides, intervals). If fast running were a house, the base endurance pace is the foundation and exterior walls, threshold training is the framing and roof, and speed is your shingles and chimney.
My MAF runs went from 8min/km at 150bpm down to 6min20/km at 140bpm. Pretty cool stuff if you have the patience. As a running beginner I didn't have an ego standing in my way
How long did that that take you?
@@MontyB97 6 months but you can't really count my second month because I was injured (stupid mistake of being over motivated)
so, 5 months of running
Amazing
Not only ego, i just find fast running fun, and man, does one need patience to stay
@@kortex628 that's true with all sports, it's not ego for me.. running, biking etc slow it's incredibily boring
Jut restarting and just come back from my first MAF run of 6km. Hopefully this will put me back to where I want to be after several false starts over lockdown.
😂i know the feeling, it was my fourth Time starting over yesterday
I started yesterday. My MAF hr is 140. It went pretty well my pace had to be around 11;00/mile. Hills are the challenge though, I had to walk the steepest ones.
What a great post and video. Just started this as training for an Ultra in 12 months. 7.25/km at 130 bpm baseline as a start but I'm in Middle East running in 35+ Deg C heat. So think the HR would be a bit lower / or I would be quicker etc in sunny Scotland.
Great video as ever. I also started putting in low HR sessions and, clearly, this implies a drop of c. 1min per km from the usual medium pace; feels a bit boring at the beginning, but one gets used to it relatively easy. The most difficult for me is to keep a high-ish cadence without speeding: otherwise, I know I tend to slow down and to pound down on the ground
I agree, if I go really slow i feel like I sink into the ground and feel the ground impact forces way more; and simply end up training poor form. This can be a disadvantage of sticking 100% to MAF.
the run fast to run slow strategy also works really well too.
My heart rate is related to temperature. I was struggling to keep heart rate low in Doha as humid +34C° on the evening then flew to my home state Finland and repeated same workout (distance and pace) following evening at +9C°. I had basically same clothes and 30min. in Doha 134bpm followed by 30min. in Finland 118bpm.
Indeed, high heat and humidity can massively raise your HR for a given pace
@@Julian-pj2zi Your heart rate will vary due to heat,humidity, hydration levels,stress,hunger, and a million other factors. Just keep your heart rate at the proper number while doing MAF. It will fluctuate daily.
@@sebastianzx6r yes 10minutes is enough to dehydrate in Doha and also winter time run with heavy wearing cause massive increase in heart rate, mostly at the end of the long run.
One of my friend old man who ran 2.51:xx marathon back in 1990's and winning that local race, he just told me go by the feel "easy never feels hard but good days even fast could feel easy"
Your blood volume's divided between tasks when it's really hot and your heart's given an extra job to do: pumping blood to the working muscles, yes, but also pumping blood to the skin to cool you down. Therefore, for any given heart rate, you'll have to back off the pace a little. One way to get round this is to think about layering DOWN (dress code). Another's to consider the time of day you run at. Not always a practical consideration and of course, depends entirely on your working day and home life but if you can get out really early in the mornings during the summer months you avoid the heat of the day. It really does help you direct most of your body's resources to the working muscles rather than any extraneous factors.
Thanks I'm in Kuwait and seeing the same thing . Appreciate the data as it helps me calibrate.
I have done MAF/low heart rate training in the past and did see progress at the same heart rate over time. I went from 11:30 min/mile to 9:00 min/mile over about 6 months training. I did find it helpful to teach my body what "easy" running means, but I eventually stopped the method and mixed in speed work. In other words, now that I know what easy running means, I don't carry my heart rate monitor with me anymore and I run for feel on easy days. On fast days, I run fast. My body has responded well to this (better abs/muscles) whereas during MAF training I felt like I developed a gut. I think this goes hand in hand with what you said in this video.
How many miles/hours that you train a week for MAF ?
I run just over 7:15 a mile. (25 secs slower than previously did).
I've shredded nearly a minute off my 5km. Now 17:15.
Just done a 4 min pb at Conwy half marathon. So the slower running has worked for me. Plus confidence has grown to.
I’m not doing exclusive MAF training (I’m prepping for a 10km race in May so balancing low intensity with some tempo/speed and goal pace sessions) but I am keeping some of my easy/long runs around my MAF HR (144bpm). I’m also doing a MAF 8km test each month, which is really helping me to see my fitness improve. I’m logging the splits as well, but headline figures: first MAF test, average pace of 7.46/km. 2nd test- 7.14/km. So definitely getting faster at same HR, fitness improving!
How many months did it take you to go from 7.46 to 7.14?
MAF + Chi Running are very complementary. Maf for the aerobic training and Chi running for the the technique and neuro muscular part (chi running is based on taiji quan after all)
Never got on with the MAF training, 115 heart rate for my 65 years and I'm over 115 just walking ! With a resting resting pace of just 50
If you are 65 or over you can add 10 beats per min, so aim for 125 bpm. It’s one of the adjustments recommended.
I just finished a 6 weeks MAF type in base building and it was really frustrating to see my pace at 7:30 on the treadmill but slowly increased to about 6:20/6:30. I will be running a slightly modified version of jack daniels Q2 marathon for my half in late 2021 and just like your modification to the MAF training , jack does mention doing strides about 2 time per weeks outside of the Q sessions
I used the MAF method heavily when I started running 2.5 years ago... I feel lucky that I found it so early on! I definitely experienced the speed increase over time.. but that improvement is limited in my experience. Probably for some of the reasons you mentioned. I'm no running about 10bpm above my MAF HR for my aerobic runs to see how that goes. I want 4m30s k's to feel like my easy conversational pace... whereas 5 is where that is currently.
I do like your logic with regard to reminding those legs what running fast feels like though!
I have been loving MAF training. I have been an athlete since I was a kid and always ran a 530 mile, wrestled for 10 years, did taekwondo for 10 years... The low intensity and easy healing of MAF training is great, and I have never come across a sport where you get a chance to stick in that zone, for so long, so it is new for me to do this level of low heart rate training. I wish I had started sooner in my life
James loving the new series and you have inspired me to join you. How is everyone managing their max HR? I have an iWatch but can't find an app that alarms when I meet my max 135bpm?
I always watch those videos and get so pumped up for next run. This time it's gonna be different and I'm gonna finally like it! Then I go and almost die after 100m.
Sounds very similar to my current training block, which I am wrapping up (I am tapering now). I have a goal of sub-3 marathon, but because I am 55 I knew that I need to slowly build up to that. So, my PT gave me the advice to scale first my volume, then frequency and lastly intensity. I had been training at a max of 85 km/week for a long time. Then about a year ago, I bumped that up to 110 km/week. I did one block at that volume, then between blocks, I maintained that volume, but focused on keeping my heart-rate at/under 120. That slowed me down a bit, but I was able to maintain the volume without feeling muscle fatigue. I would add in 1-2 sessions of 6-10 strides per week. Now, in this block, I feel really close to my goal. Keeping up the volume inbetween blocks really helped me build up good endurance and allowed me to add in the more intense sessions, following Pete Pfitzinger's book. In 2 weeks, I will try a solo marathon run and I think I should be able to hit 3:05 - 3:10.
Sub 3 at 55 seems really impressive. I write 'seems' because I'm only a year in as a runner. I'm registered for my first official marathon in November. I will have turned 50 two weeks prior to the marathon. My PT suggests I can go 2.45, I ran a 3.03.08 on my own during training but taking a further 25 seconds per km off would be tough. My PT has me working on speed work at the moment but I feel I'm constantly on the verge of injury. The PT tells me I'll get to do some longer slower miles in the coming months, quite frankly I'm eager for that. I enjoy the speed work, but I feel I'll benefit the most if I can get my body used to running 20+ miles. Good luck for your sub 3.
I tried the slow, steady approach beginning a few months ago, and gradually improved my pace... for slow, steady jogging. It didn't help at all for strides and sprints or faster steady running. Every time I push the pace I find new body parts getting sore and risking injury.
It's an okay approach to base fitness, but the only way to get faster is to run fast, which means longer strides, faster turnover, and risking injuries to rarely used muscles for those of us who haven't built up a base from years of running.
My base aerobic fitness was already really good from years of cycling, but the leg and body ergonomics are totally different.
I just started MAF training and managed to hit my PB distance without feeling too tired or getting pains afterwards. I used to do a lot of tempo runs (previously I did 4'50'' for 8k) but I'd sometimes get joint pains after I finish the longer distances with such a speed. I'm still battling with slowing down (I'm kind of competitive so it hurts to slow down so much) but it also impresses me how I can run longer distances without injury and fatigue now
I started maf as I was actually over training and got an over use injury... I was running my easy runs at around 8.30 pace felt easy but my hr would always be around 160 odd... So I did 145 hr for 5 full weeks Inc on my bike and actually built up miles while managing an injury.. Now its sorted I am doing 1 rep session per week a tempo or hill.. At harder efforts.. Anything else is all now under 150 hr... I ran 18 miles on Sunday my hr didn't go over 145 an my pace was 9.45 average when originally I was at 11mm an needing to walk on some climbs... I think its brilliant for easy days.. But yes you defo needed to run fast efforts of your looking to race as I noticed my first tempo run I got sore quads because they hadnt done pace for so long... All in all for me it's working for me with the added efforts as and when
Good video, some healthy scepticism here in the comments, but I’m on board with this idea of long slow running for base training and developing a healthy body with low stress levels. Maffetone himself puts emphasis on the holistic approach to health, as James Dunne does, with performance improvement a side effect. I’ve been running in this same manner for the last 2 years, and at 51 I’m as strong and injury free as I’ve ever been. Perhaps my performance would be better with more hard intervals, but I place a HIGH premium on staying injury free. I do some strides and short repeats, I find hill sprints are a great way to get some of those benefits with lower injury risk.
As another viewer pointed out, the MAF method does teach you how to run at slower paces without taking awkward strides. However as James pointed out, after two months of MAF running, it felt really awkward to run at tempo/threshold. My stride felt really disjointed and my heart rate was higher than usual for the given pace. It should be noted I didn't follow MAF strictly; while I'd do 30-40 miles per week of MAF running, I did include a single 1.5 hour threshold cycling session as my "fun" cardio (and yes I realize that's against MAF training). While I was making progress with my pace on MAF runs shaving 30 seconds/mile off my time at lower heart rates than when I began MAF training, my cycling during that time suffered with higher heart rates for the given power output. I really don't understand how other people can do MAF only and then smash records when they go and run an organized race.
I haven’t done MAF training, but going to try it. I think I am going to add some additional activities (fartlek etc and pick ups etc) to see how it works. Good luck with the program, looking forward to next week. I am a big fan of your strength exercises, try and do them twice a week. What would you add on to them as a progression?
I started a weightloss program this week based on the MAF method. It's Dan John's Easy Strength for Fat Loss. The basic program is, 5 days a week you do a moderate intensity kettlebell/weights workout for 10-15 minutes to get the heart rate up, then immediately go for a walk/run/cycle for 35-45 minutes, carefully staying within the MAF zone.
For me, as it is early days, I am constantly checking my HR monitor to make sure I am on target. I have already realised walking just doesn't work for me, I can barely make the minimum MAF band. I'll be alternating running and cycling from now on. Hopefully I will become aware of how much effort I'm using soon so I can relax and stop obsessing about my HR rate!
Great video, thanks. I'm just starting to do MAF training & wondered if I can still do a quick 5k at parkrun each saturday & slower runs for the rest of the week, or would you slow down parkrun too?
At 54/100kg I am spending a couple weeks in MAF hell now... Garmin watch tells me to perform running workouts at 10min/km!
So I prefer to do these "runs" at night while _hopefully_ improving ...with some initial privacy.
After times of much-too-high-HR training and then close to nothing in 2022, this is the only chance.
Great to read of these great advances achieved with MAF!!
Will follow your progress with interest James. I’ve been doing a lot of MAF in recent months. Typically I’m running 6min/km @ 136HR. However I find it impossible to keep cadence high when doing so. It drops to around 170 from my faster runs where it’ is 180+. I presume that’s the same for most??
Bryn, good question and I've been searching online for the same answer without any luck. At the start of my MAF experience I made a decision I didn't want slow running to impact on my run mechanics / running form. Maintaining 180+ cadence and a high heel lift does use extra energy in hr terms but I intuitively believe is better for you in the long term than dropping your cadence and comprising the way you run or worse still resorting to shuffling to keep hr in a range. I did some trial runs at different speeds and cadence and found to maintain a running form I was happy with for slow running, it bumped my hr up by approx 5bmp. So I simply added 5bmp to my MAF hr and maintain my running form. It seems rational to adjust the MAF hr for this, then your neuromuscular system is already tuned for faster running, as your pace at your MAF hr increases. The downside is it might take a little longer to get the benefit of the slow running at the outset, as you'll be working at a slightly higher hr but MAF is a long term strategy so adding a little extra time in the initial phase shouldn't be too onerous. At approx 8'20" into the video James starts talking about variations to MAF for neuromuscular reasons but unfortunately talked about post run strides and not cadence during the workout. Anyway I hope sharing this helps.
Okay, now I feel better about being at what I consider a much slower pace lately. I've been noticing that a lot now that it is warm enough where I live to go back to running in the early am. There are a lot of factors that my body has not been exposed to for a while, like extra humidity and the pollens in the air from everything putting out buds or actually blooming. Also, I am over 50 and I need to remember to give myself credit for doing this at my age. It will begin to pay off in a few more months; I will get faster and more efficient with time.
What are your views on the 80/20 method?? I’m debating which method to try? I am coming back from injury, and have gained a stone in lockdown (COVID curves!! 🤣) I’m also really rubbish at calculating heart rate zones too!
Thanks 😊
Thanks for MAF explanation James, that really helps getting my head around it #tonyjamesrunning
Thanks
I tried the MAF method last year. Probably I should have used the 180-50+10 formula. My starting pace was ~6:20/km over 10km distance. After 4 months it went down to ~7:00/km, I was getting slower. Very frustrating experience. I did increase my monthly distance to 200km/month and lost some weight (was not overweight to start with). I learnt to pace my runs better and watch my HR. Currently following a Garmin training program with Coach Greg. It's more like 80/20 with higher pace based easy runs.
I am very interested in seeing you to suceed in this sub 3:00 Marathon goal with MAF method. I have interviewed dozens of runner who swear this method really works, however the ones who have failed are the runners who have attemped to go sub 3:00 hours. BTW, your light modifications make a lot of sense and I doubt they will impact the outcome of the MAF method. Good Luck.
I've just started MAF training to try and get away from the constant fatigue of intervals and tempo efforts and those 'grey' miles in Zone 3. I've noticed less fatigue, having to be very patient when I go above 130bpm, walking up hills and my garmin constantly vibrating on BPM alerts! I have also noticed that on longer runs from mile 8 its much harder to stay at my MAF bpm. London Marathon looms in October, so I am going to give it 3 months. Thanks for the video James - have you done a MAF test? It would be good to see a progress video.
My problem is, I try to run at MAF pace every day for an hour a day. It’s not that I get tired. It’s my joints start to hurt. Especially my right foot and hip. I just can’t run. It’s like I’m just not biomechanically built for it. I’ve been running for years too. And it’s never gotten better. When I hear these things about how humans are “evolved to run” I think it’s all hogwash. Humans are meant to walk. Not run. After all, how often do you hear about stress fractures, Achilles tendinitis, IT band syndrome, Plantar fasciitis, or shin splints, from walking?
My issue with using this training is my heart rate is higher than it should be since I have asthma. I’ve tried multiple times to get it lower all the ways I’ve heard to do. So I use perceived effort for runs.
Good video well done. It would be wrth saying though that ''MAF'' stands for ''Maximum Aerobic Function''. Most people watching won't know that and will think it's an abbreviation on ''Maffetone'' which it's not. Good luck with the Marathon, you're training well for it.
I did 10 weeks of MAF only running at the end of last year. I was frustrated and bored, and I didn’t see much progress in that period. I still partly run at MAF HR, but now incorporate intervals, tempo, and hill work. At 45 years of age, I am now running better than I ever have. Don’t know if that is down to the 10 weeks of MAF, but I think I’ll do it again during the winter months.
10 weeks is too little time for the MAF method, you need to commit for 6+ months.
@@Spartan117FS life is too short for that :-) I lasted to 4 months with MAF and my pace decreased.
I was a cyclist before and my MAF is 145bpm but that’s about 4:20min per km and I feel pretty physically beat up like it’s too fast even though my breathing is totally fine. I prefer to run around 120-130bpm and then once a week do a threshold/tempo thing like a 20 min effort around 170bpm , I ran a half marathon and averaged 169bpm. Works better for me and I don’t get sore.
Another great video. I'll try the MAF method, but as someone who lives in a city where is hot and humid at least half of the year, I'm afraid that my target rate (120) will translate to walks... Let's see.
A lot of people claiming that using the MAF training brought their running speed up. Actually , any sort of training would increase your speed as you build more stamina and resilience. I have never heard of MAF a few years ago. So i just ran without any method. My HR was high and i struggled .. i continued to run, and persisted in my training.. eventually i could run faster and longer. No MAF, just consistent running.
I agree. I am 57 and never ran before in my entire life. Even simple walk alleviated my heart rate but since I started to run with maximum heart rate (but still slow pace) my resting heart rate and heart rate recovery have improved. I use treadmill so that I can control the velocity and watch the improvement in heart rate over time. Currently I am running @ the speed of 7.5 km per hour, heart rate begins 130 bpm and after 1 hour ends at 160 bpm at the same speed.
I've been using polarized training, with some results, indeed. Paces are becoming more consistent and faster, with generally less effort needed, even though I am been running with a mask.
Trouble is, in some days the heart decides to merrily do its own thing for the same pace and exertion level, which can be quite frustrating. But running injury-free more than compensates for that.
easy aerobic running using maff to guide is the core. but add 1 workout, gradually 2 workouts, and do strides and get in the gym to strengthen glut/core/calves etc
I think the ideal training intensity is the range MAF - Max Steady State, or the hardest intensity you can maintain without slowing down for at least an hour.
130-150HR, Zone 3 for most people, recommended by most professional runners and coaches known as Cardiac Output.
I am using heart rate training since quite a while and I am mostly happy with it. (I am not a good runner (too heavy) I just do it to maintain endurance for sports I enjoy but cant do all the time) ... In any case I have the problem that when I occasionally go faster to see what pace I can sustain, I am not limited by my cardio but by my lower legs - they just get weak before I get out of breath - sometimes I even get needles and pins. It feels as if they just cannot handle the amount of energy they are supposed to process.
So now I "run" a bit up the hills to develop strength in my lower legs, however its almost walking alternated with actual walking, when I want to keep my heart rate. I may switch to ignoring heart rate for hill runs once a week or so ... not sure.
Hiya James, I'm a big advocate of this method but I have to balance my slow runs as I feel if I run too slow I pick up a few niggles in my achilles/calfs. When I pick the pace up a bit the extra forward momentum seems takes some of the strain off my achilles/calfs. I'm not talking tempo pace just 10% or so over that low plod pace. Seems to work for me and keep me more injury free👍
Been on the MAF training for about a year.