Mig-21 Flat Turn Guide | Mind Your AoAs and Rate | Mig-21 Dogfight Guide
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- The Mig-21 CAN turn, I saw a lot of people saying it couldn't so I wanted to throw this guide down for players so they could get an example in the wild of it being done. This plane can be a monster and you can even beat F-5s in flat turns if you stick to some fundamentals. I hope you find this video helpful.
There are other videos that may go into more detail but I wanted to share how I approach it myself and it has been directionally fruitful for me.
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Chapters:
00:00 - 00:44
00:45 - 01:54 The initial merge
01:55 - 03:04 AoA Lights
03:05 - 03:46 Flat Turn at High Speed
03:47 - 04:36 Cranking the Turn
04:37 - 05:57 Dropping Flaps / Low Speed Turn
05:58 - 08:59 Tacview Review
09:00 - 09:16 Outro
Outro Music:
• Synthwave / Retrowave ...
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Lemartis
RS Hart
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This channel focuses on combat flight simulators like DCS World and IL-2 Great Battles. If you play either of these games or flight simulators like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and enjoy aviation and dogfighting then this channel is for you. Even if you are coming from War Thunder and BF2042, you can learn to fly these combat flight simulators.
I play using TrackIR5 and do not use VR, this means that I am able to capture footage for tutorials, how-to-guides and other multiplayer tips and tricks video in 1440p.
Eagle Dynamics has made it easier than ever to learn DCS because the game is technically free. The game has the F-15, F-16, Su-27, Mig-29, Mig-21, Mig-19, Mig-15, F-86 Sabre, Jf-17, Mirage 2000, F-18 Hornet and F-14 Tomcat. There are soon other modules coming such as the Mig-23 and F-4. Lastly, there are helicopters like the Mi-24 Hind and AH-64 Apache.
Great stuff. I am still terrible at visual tracking. That's almost always why I lose. Even with a 27" screen set at 1080p. Every time I try to glance at my IAS or AOA: aaaaand he's gone. And then I'm never sure if I should keep the turn going or go vertical or extend.
the more I play, the more I can predict where the enemy plane is heading so I don't have to keep my eyes fixated on him all the time
Same here. I may be the worst spotter on the server -.-
Use the Numpad0 to glance on the instruments. Better yet, map it as one of your basic buttons on the throttle/stick. Better yet, customize it. You can customize snap views in-game during gameplay, without editing lua files.
I would recommend turning off ssaa and instaling re shade to increase sharpness, it really helps on spotting
@@lucasbriones3598 SSAA you say? Will try that, already have reshader
Bought the Mig-21 months ago and tried flying it a few times and hated it. Took the time to really feel and learn the plane and I love it now.
it's a realy wonderfull machine, doing acrobatics in it after flying a flankers feels good.
Great debrief! Don’t be greedy in BFM! Balancing reduced time to kill against being patient is sometimes really hard.
That's something I'm still struggling with. I get my fangs out, taste some blood but then I get gready and want more. It never fails that I get shot down on the second merge instead of going home to fight another day.
I think it would have been useful to mention the corner speed of the 21 if we're talking about rate. I think it's around 800kph but not sure. the 22deg AoA is very helpful tip, thanks! If we were to break down that fight more he spent his speed to try to get a shot early on and you did it at the end when he was already "tired" and unable to respond. Very good example.
This is going to sound dumb but I actually don't try to lock the speed at the most optimal rate speed. On paper it may be better but with the position of the speedometer, I ended up losing contacts having to glance over. So I just prioritize the AoA because it is easier to find at a quick glance.
@@Enigma89 I do the same.
Optimal sustained turn speed is ~M 0.8, so somewhere around 800-900km/h on the deck. The problem is that this is also true of the F-5 and he outrates you by a degree a second or more at this speed. In a sustained turn fight, you either want to get him to try sustain even faster (around the transonic region the 21 begins rapidly gaining advantage, as long as you don't pull too hard and overload the jet), but F-5s who will take this bait are very rare as they've usually already snapped their wings on their way to merging with you. I try to avoid rate fights with them as much as possible because there's really no safe way to do it - even on the edge of a stall where the 21 has a tiny advantage, it leaves you without options and open to third partying.
Its also worth saying that another reason you really need to watch your AOA is that if you pull too hard, it can make the plane just roll off to one side and do crazy shit... Like you can and will lose control of the aircraft if you pull too hard.
As others of said i think the use of the verticle and out of plane lag turns would of served you better here since he was just bleeding energy. That said it really works as a tutorial for how to abuse the 21s better IRT and energy retention over the f5.
Thanks that was the hope. It gets scary seeing the f5 pull the nose so far but if you trust the process and let your engine do the work.then you can start to muscle out an advantage over time.
I made it into an Enigma video!! I remember seeing you two off in the distance and went for the A10 that you had already clipped and shot him down
YOU'RE FAMOUS
@@Enigma89 LOL
Really useful, cheers.
Super entertaining stuff. Wish i could play DCS so bad 😭
Get back in it!
Nice, however I think you should have gone up with high yoyo to decrease speed and reduce turn radius while preserving your energy by altitude gain, instead of just bleeding it in a turn.
Scary to go higher when you are flying along their flight path between the af and the frontline. But besides that, vertical works super well.with 21. Just wanted to show an example of a longer turn fight vs a f5
You definitely showed that the aircraft is a fine tool but what matters is the man in the box.
Just started flying the MiG 21 on your server, enjoying it! Great videos btw.
Enigma you should play the mig-21 gainst Growling Sidewinder in an F-4 in a dogfight. I get a feeling you actually know how to fly the mig-21, and that it would be a great fight.
we need viggen here! saw you playing it.great stuff.
Raider 2-2
To come, I like the viggen a lot
Idk why
But seeing a MiG-21 rate fight is really wierd to me. Shows me that the aircraft is even better than I imagined
i was waiting for that kind of a video, thanks!
Glad you found it interesting
nice breakdown, i appreciate the insight and explanations
Thanks and I am incredibly envious of your YT account name.
Great video again!
Would be cool if u do a f5 Tutorial as well. Looking at the 21 it feels as if IT has the edge in everything besides instantant Turn rate.
I am still cracking the nut on the f5 but can recommend Tricker he is quite good in that thing.
It does
I’ve concluded the same thing. I wont rate turn fight with a competent mig 21 down low anymore. It simply out rates and out accelerates the F5. My success is best in the low speed scissor but the 21 is quite good at that as well….
@@hammerofdavey So what is your Suggestion for the F5?
@@killkesscmbn The MiG is just better, however the F-5 is easier to fly well. A lot of MiG drivers don’t know how to fully exploit its advantages, so if you’re good in the F-5 you’ll come out on top more often than not. That being said, you should should keep an exit strategy in mind, and always know your way to the nearest friendly SAM site.
Hi, great videos, great channel. Thank you. I am new to all this. (Played for 300 hours back in 2015) Got my Track IR, VKB NXT EVO and Thrustmaster TWCS very recently. Playing on 55" LG CX OLED (Connected to Alienware M15R5 laptop with RTX 3070 via HDMI 2.1). TRACK IR 5 is 7 feet from me and it works surprisingly well from this distance. I am in my living room, I do not have an office LOL. Learning F 16. I do not like burying my head in the cockpit and unlike the SU 27, you cannot lock targets on the HUD in BVR in F16. So, I keep on looking at my MFDs more than the HUD and this is not fun. I do not like external views on Growling Sidewinder server. Back in 2015, they had a Phoenix 104th server with external views disabled and I loved it. I bought MIG 21 and F5E recently. I want to finish learning F16 (Since I paid $80 for it) and then try the Enigma server. Would you recommend learning MIG 21 or F5E first for Air to Air PVP? I am a solo player. Thank you.
PS I read that only MIG 21 has IFF and it is not when you lock on to the target. Since I am a solo player , I will be afraid to shoot down friendlies in F5E since it does not have IFF and by the time I realize it is a hostile, it will be too late for me. I will need to figure out how to overcome this problem.
You cant make a bad choice between the two. I personally enjoy the mig21 more but some people love the f5. It is just whatever sort of fly style you are going for. Just start to dig into them because to great at one you will have to understand both.
Love this. Really nice observations. And a cracking vid.
Do you have any experience in the F86? Or links to a resource?
Looking for cues to achieve max performance...
Have you got the speed and g numbers for a maximum sustained turn (no altitude loss) at sea level and at a various altitudes?
Have you got the numbers for a max performance diving spiral turn (highest g possible, at the slowest possible speed, which will then be the highest turn rate possible, and it will also be the tightest turn radius possible.)
At the moment I'm just using the machmeter (at altitude) airspeed indicator (on the deck) and g numbers and trying to feel it out, but it would be good if there were some real numbers to aim for!
I have not flown the f86 yet but it is on my to do list to get familiar with it.
Jump into the Sim with your loadout and start doing turns; review in tacview to get a baseline and start making mental cues on its performance building up muscle memory for that specific jet. It's the way I do all aircraft.
So in your experience did you get to any numbers that you use for any aircraft?
In flying the F86 and the F14 I’m interested in the rules of thumb and “performance numbers” that other pilots have been able to achieve.
@@AC-id6rf for me I don't fly the f86, however I have extensive data on the f14 since I primarily fly it in BFM gunzo. i do have some dogfighting bids up on my channel in VR, I just didn't really get into streaming so my videos are not too high quality.
sko So what is your sustained corner speed at sea level and 30,000 ft in the F14?
liked and subscribed - nice video
What's the speed limit on the 21's flaps? I've heard people saying they lose controls when using them above 450 knts.
The bug was fixed. Flaps now correctly retract when you overspeed, this does not damage them it just keeps them retracted and you do not loose all hydro pressure. Speed limit for flaps is around 550 km/h from top of my head.
Knots?
What is the Point of using them in the first place?
@@killkesscmbn Better slowspeed control and so ability to pull more AoA
@@Tiro_Chopper why
ive had the mig for a year and a half never tried online mainly cuz I still forget how to deploy flares and it seeems like an impossible feat to be a good pilot XD
There is a cover on the throttle area (front right) that you have to flip and then the flares will work, assuming you added them when you armed
Does anyone know if there's an E-M diagram for the MiG-21 modeled in DCS to access?
I really don't understand how to use the flaps in combat maneuvers, can you do a video on that?
This video basically does cover that because that is what netted out the kill at the end. When I hit around 550 kph is when I dropped to take off flaps to help cut the turn. I don't really ever drop flaps over 550 kph in the Mig. The F-5 has a really bad thrust to weight ratio, so you can out turn it in a sustained turned but you have to make sure you don't panic and pull too hard. You will drain his energy eventually.
can you use the opposite rudder to put your nose up? Or at that speed is useless?
Hi enigma How can I jettison the central fuel tank on mig 21?
Check your keymapper look for fuel or jettison and then map it. Its one button and it will pop off
@@Enigma89 yes thank you I found it it's ctrl rx plus page up by default
How do you get AWACS to call out type of aircraft you are merging with?
You need to set a trip wire. This explains everything czcams.com/video/al_dUe_7djA/video.html
I find really difficult to fly the mig-21 I usually end up stalling it in flat turn. So what is the ideal speed for turning? More you speed up and more AOA turn high is it correct?
I focus more on aoa rather than speed
@@Enigma89 ok 👍🏻
I'm a VR player coming from 24" monitor with TrackIR. I find spotting better with VR but I hear larger monitors are the solution, but I'm not keen on forking out over 1k for a monitor that MIGHT help me. So regarding spotting - What monitor and res do you play with?
Just looking for thoughts from experienced players :)
Dont need to fork out that much money for a bigger monitor I got an Asus VG279 for $200 its 27" 1080p 144hz.
75" 4k TV player here that uses track Ir and plays from about 20% over arms length from the screen.
I've flown with TVs since 2012 (Rise of Flight, War Thunder Sim, DCS, Il-2 GB/Flying Circus, WOFF), started on a 40" 1080p and worked my way up slowly over the years. My current TV was about 700$, maybe 800$, I don't honestly remember.
It depends a lot on the game, spotting in War Thunder Sim is braindead simple compared to DCS. Il-2 GB is fairly easy to spot in as well, and so is Rise of Flight/Flying Circus.
In DCS I have found myself actively spotting dots from 25-30nm with my 4k monitors (the first one was 50"), out if they're in the right horizon spread. I can't tell what they are from there, of course, but I can see them clear enough to visually padlock them and begin moving to engage. The new monitor, the aforementioned 75" has made it even easier. I was able to spot helos in transit as low altitude dots on Enigmas server a few weeks ago from quite some distance (I want to say about 14 miles.) It was uncanny enough that at the time my Huey co-pilot took the helos controls so that I could just start visually calling out dots for us to avoid.
The BIG thing though is If they're NOT in that horizon spread, ie just a little lower or higher, it's not realy any different though.
There are a lot of ups and downs to any system you choose to use. VR takes up way less space, but can have an insane startup cost. I gain easier spotting but my monitor is enormous, large enough that I get relatively nervous about it just in general due to having cats and a small child, so if space (or durability) is a concern that may not be an option for you.
@@fenny1578 Thanks for all the info, that helps greatly.
I will move my sim gear into the living room and try plonk myself down in front of the 42" 1080p TV with the TrackIR to start and see if that makes any difference.
Hilarious huey spotting skills there! Keep that on your DCS CV!
@@orangespy Just remember that Track IR wants to be pointed at its head piece (be it the headset one or the hat mounted one) at a specific angle. They need to have a straight line to each other.
My current setup has my track IR ontop of a few small books just off center to match horizontal axis with the headset IR lights, then I have to aim it up with the headset clip down to get them properly in line.
It can take some real meddlin about, but with a bit of practice you should be able to figure it out. Good luck!
@@fenny1578 Thanks again! Yes, I've had the same issue with my TrackIR as it sits very high (dual monitors stacked).
That was the first issue I though of when you mentioned the size of the TV and the distance you sit from it. Might even be able to put it behind you and reverse the axis in the software.
Make Fox 1 great again!
Could you link the custom cockpit you use?
I am out of town but will circle back on this in a few days
@@Enigma89 Appreciate it
The F5 made many mistakes that you could exploit successfully.
his obvious mistake is to have afterburner on, while trying to evade fox2 with flare
Dogfight is EZ,but how to use my poor eyes to find a pixel on the screen is big problem.This is why I dislike DCS ColdWar.
Takes practice, not easy, that is for sure
:)
:)
And as always the countermeasures stuffs completely useless….