Looks like a very nice project. The jerky-ness kind of goes along with un-matched components and process. That is NOT a slam at all, we only know what we know, and what we can learn quickly from web-land and suppliers. OTOH, the more you run it the smoother you'll be as an operator. I've built 2 skid loaders; the first was with hydro motors and loader valves. The second used 2 Hydro-gear zero turn self contained drives. The zero turn set-up was way smoother to operate, speed & direction linkage instead of hoses, and the units were very durable. You probably already know this, but you'll probably want some sort of lug tires if you work in loose dirt, mud or snow.
The cartridge ports on the motors are for cross relief or one way rotation options. Any changes there won't fix your issue. The jerky operation is the small hydraulic motor size. Most name brand mini skid steers have 300, 400, 500 & 600cc drive motors. Try going to a larger CC rated motor or change your sprocket sizes, without to much compromise on your ground speed. Most mini skid steers do 3-4mph. Oh and don't use motor spools, your loader creep away. Reminds me when I built my first loader 10yrs ago. All the best. 👍👍
Thanks for your input, I was just going to put the motor spools in for just the drives and still have the load holding spools for the loader so should be good there
@@TRoutdoors2021 Probably too late but putting in spool valves will allow the wheels to free spin in the neutral position. Making slopes dangerous and requiring reversing the motor you want to be stopped in a turn to turn.
Yeah that’s correct I did buy a set of motor spools but the valve I got is nothing close to standard it’s a Chinese p40 but none of the standard p40 stuff fits it. the spools were close but to big of diameter. I machined them down the best I could and I think there was to much internal leak by and could not build enough pressure to move once the machine warmed up. They did work the way I wanted when the fluid is cold .I was fine with it being able to roll when in center on the valve
The drive motors should really be powered by variable displacement pumps. That is the correct way. Most smaller ones don't do it they use big motors and slow ground speed and are often jerky. I had a small crawler it had 2 pumps a drive pump and a loader pump. it also had a joystick valve on the loader pump circuit thats output was teed into the feed line to the control valve for the drive system for what they called overdrive. Higher GPM higher speed. Doing this allowed slow movement or fast movement with less jerking.
Basically bc you have a double acting spool (cylinders) running a motor you are shocking the system everytime you move it back to center. These are designed so the cylinder will hold in place until either the pressure relief is overcome or you have a leak somewhere that allows the cylinder to drop. You could add an adjustable pressure relief valve to the motors and send the shock back to tank. But with your one spool bank setup U might have to put it on either side of the motor. This would slow the stop. But if you had it set to low you would go right to tank. I have also seen setups where they hook up a T and two inline relief valve. This allows the wheel to keep spinning until it is under the pressure relief setting for the inline valve. Look up homemade skid steer brush hog
There a couple of this that could improve the performance. The jerking operation of the drive motors is likely to do with the size of the valve. As the valve is too large a very small movement basically opens the fully which doesn’t give you much control. I don’t know what brand of valve you are using but it might be possible to get a smaller capacity spool. If you can get one that is a proportional that will also give much better control. The very quick stopping would be helped with these changes, however if you just let the lever go it will stop very quickly. This can be reduced by fitting a cross port relief valve, as the valve closes very quickly you induce a high braking pressure in the motor circuit , the cross line relief will vent the oil to the other side of the motor and vice versa. You can play with the settings so it’s above normal working pressure but will allow braking a bit smother. You mentioned that the torque is down a bit, changing the motors will obviously increase the torque but easier would be to increase the wheel sprocket size. Lastly I noticed when you operated the bucket it drops quickly as it goes over centre, I would fit counterbalance valves here but you might get away with a flow control that meters out to that cylinder. Hope this makes sense. Cheers love the build
@@TRoutdoors2021 yes you could, however you will just coast to a stop when you release the valve. I think this would be awful to operate. But it would work and the other functions will operate fine.
I recently am almost completing a long project tracked articulating stump grinding machine that is Drive with tracks and is a ride on unit 66 horsepower 12 ft long 10 belt drive articulating head rear bulldoze push blade and the whole unit is only 33 in wide to be able to drive in a gate all powered by single pump
I always wanted to put a Reese hitch on the standing platform of one of these. Then make a trailer with a seat on it like a sulky. Then you could "ride it" into the woods. Unhook the trailer. Load it with the skid steer and "ride it" out
There is no detent, it’s spring to center it’s the spool inside is not a motor spool so it’s acting like a on off switch I think I’m just going to start with flow control valves
Since you have all controls going to one valve bank, it makes it a little harder. Put an adjustable flow control valve after motor supply valve. This will let you fine tune the flow. You probably also did not get motor spools for you bank. This will make it jerky bc it stops the flow in both directions when center. No bled off but it does brake well. I am building the same and have a two section pump and two valves. I will be able to put one flow control on the motors coming from the first section. The second will power the arms. Great build btw.
Am I able to still get motor spools the valve body I have? It’s a cheaper eBay valve that I thought was more for motor control but I guess not. I’m not quite sure what to look for I guess
@@TRoutdoors2021 what is the model number? I will take a peek. Motor spools will still jerk a little, just not as much as double acting spools. The flow adjustment will help either way. Right now you are pushing as much "water" through the garden hose as possible. Then "capping" it. By lowering the flow you can fine tune the "water" going through the hose.
Chris, I don’t believe it has a model or number or anything seems to be a very common style of mono block valve sold by many. I believe they call them a p40 valve? But this is my exact valve I bought. Seems like you can get this valve with tandem spools or motors but I’m not sure if I could have both in the same valve body I can’t find anything that says you can or can’t www.ebay.com/itm/175024626523?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QgUYzu1nQ3i&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=roe91-IaTva&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
But I found some just single spools you can buy at princess auto for motors and they have a couple different styles and lengths I just don’t know if the circuit will with with two different spools. My thought is the motor spools will be under little pressure in center position but also bleed back to tank allowing the rest of my valves to still function correct?
@@TRoutdoors2021 yeah those are cylinder spools. You could add a two spool motor valve but you would have to make sure it had power beyond plug. The only problem with power beyond is anything upsteam (motors) will get priority over anything downstream (cylinders). Probably you cheapest bet is to put a adjustable flow valves on and slow the amount of fluid going in and out
I haven’t had the bucket move much in the center yet or flex. I thought about that when I was building it and figured it would be an easy add on if it was needed. Same with the edge. Same thinking though 👌🏻
At the rear of the cylinder needs more enforcement on the Boom and you need bump stops behind the bucket where the frame of the boom can hit the frame of the machine also the bucket needs a Cutting Edge or it will easily Bend Cutting Edge is easily purchased at just about any equipment place and have been fairly cheap until the last few years maybe a half inch Cutting Edge weld on type for your bucket it's best to use this type of metal because it is very tough springy and abrasion resistance
do you need some kind of end stop valve on the cylinders or they just stop at the end of travel and the preasure relieve does the job? Planing to build a similar thing. After what you said about the motors i am leaning towards 125cm3 which is aprox 25 % less of what you have got. What do you think? Or my understanding is wrong and to get more control over motors i should use the bigger ones? There is no difference in price btwn 125 , 160 or 400 cc
Chory, I don’t have any end stops. The cylinders do bottom out and then the pressure relief for safety (2100psi) but it never gets to that point because you can catch it in time. I am very happy with the motor choice I went with and they are very powerful. I can turn on solid surfaces with a bucket full of material. I don’t think I would be able to do that with smaller motors? Sorry for the late response I was up at my cabin with no service there. I had a blast figuring everything out and building it. It’s being painted starting this weekend. If you have more questions let me know and I’ll try to pass down what I learned so far
@@TRoutdoors2021 Thanks for taking a time to reply. I have spoken to someone who knows about the hydrolics and the guy said that installing a bigger motor or/and thiner hoses will give more control at the spool. I am wondering how you tighten the chain so it does not jerk and wear prematurely. Would be nice to see you giving some dimension details and also driving the thing around 😁 Great build. I am doing minę a bit differently but lerned a lot from your videos.Really helpfull,honest appriciation.
It is very difficult to run everything off of a single pump and have everything with good speed not too fast or not too slow plus when you run two different functions at once they will both slow down a bunch
Honestly it’s pretty good like multiple functions at the same time. And speed Control for loader functions is perfect. Just need to smooth out the drive motors a bit
@@TRoutdoors2021 on a regular mini skid steer you gently work the controls to steer it anyways if you just throw the control all the way forward the thing is going to take off rather quickly if you just let off the control and let it spring back to neutral the machine will come to a quick halt
Looking good. It look like your bucket cylinder is at least 10" of travel? Are you fully utilizing all of it mechanical movement? If not, I would suggest to increase the leverage pivot. It looks like it doesn't have enough leverage because the way how it drop when going down too fast and too much... and that's with no load... .imagine with 300lbs in the bucket, when you drop it, it going to drop like a rock. Also, to smother out the control lever.... maybe machine out the thumb like I did... that's so much better for me, the straight lever is crap.
Looks like a very nice project. The jerky-ness kind of goes along with un-matched components and process. That is NOT a slam at all, we only know what we know, and what we can learn quickly from web-land and suppliers. OTOH, the more you run it the smoother you'll be as an operator. I've built 2 skid loaders; the first was with hydro motors and loader valves. The second used 2 Hydro-gear zero turn self contained drives. The zero turn set-up was way smoother to operate, speed & direction linkage instead of hoses, and the units were very durable.
You probably already know this, but you'll probably want some sort of lug tires if you work in loose dirt, mud or snow.
The cartridge ports on the motors are for cross relief or one way rotation options. Any changes there won't fix your issue. The jerky operation is the small hydraulic motor size.
Most name brand mini skid steers have 300, 400, 500 & 600cc drive motors.
Try going to a larger CC rated motor or change your sprocket sizes, without to much compromise on your ground speed. Most mini skid steers do 3-4mph.
Oh and don't use motor spools, your loader creep away.
Reminds me when I built my first loader 10yrs ago.
All the best. 👍👍
Thanks for your input, I was just going to put the motor spools in for just the drives and still have the load holding spools for the loader so should be good there
@@TRoutdoors2021 Probably too late but putting in spool valves will allow the wheels to free spin in the neutral position. Making slopes dangerous and requiring reversing the motor you want to be stopped in a turn to turn.
Yeah that’s correct I did buy a set of motor spools but the valve I got is nothing close to standard it’s a Chinese p40 but none of the standard p40 stuff fits it. the spools were close but to big of diameter. I machined them down the best I could and I think there was to much internal leak by and could not build enough pressure to move once the machine warmed up. They did work the way I wanted when the fluid is cold .I was fine with it being able to roll when in center on the valve
The drive motors should really be powered by variable displacement pumps. That is the correct way. Most smaller ones don't do it they use big motors and slow ground speed and are often jerky. I had a small crawler it had 2 pumps a drive pump and a loader pump. it also had a joystick valve on the loader pump circuit thats output was teed into the feed line to the control valve for the drive system for what they called overdrive. Higher GPM higher speed. Doing this allowed slow movement or fast movement with less jerking.
Yeah when I was building this I was maxed out on budget haha I do think I will re gear and a different 5 spool valve with some better spools
Basically bc you have a double acting spool (cylinders) running a motor you are shocking the system everytime you move it back to center. These are designed so the cylinder will hold in place until either the pressure relief is overcome or you have a leak somewhere that allows the cylinder to drop. You could add an adjustable pressure relief valve to the motors and send the shock back to tank. But with your one spool bank setup U might have to put it on either side of the motor. This would slow the stop. But if you had it set to low you would go right to tank. I have also seen setups where they hook up a T and two inline relief valve. This allows the wheel to keep spinning until it is under the pressure relief setting for the inline valve. Look up homemade skid steer brush hog
There a couple of this that could improve the performance.
The jerking operation of the drive motors is likely to do with the size of the valve. As the valve is too large a very small movement basically opens the fully which doesn’t give you much control. I don’t know what brand of valve you are using but it might be possible to get a smaller capacity spool. If you can get one that is a proportional that will also give much better control. The very quick stopping would be helped with these changes, however if you just let the lever go it will stop very quickly. This can be reduced by fitting a cross port relief valve, as the valve closes very quickly you induce a high braking pressure in the motor circuit , the cross line relief will vent the oil to the other side of the motor and vice versa. You can play with the settings so it’s above normal working pressure but will allow braking a bit smother.
You mentioned that the torque is down a bit, changing the motors will obviously increase the torque but easier would be to increase the wheel sprocket size.
Lastly I noticed when you operated the bucket it drops quickly as it goes over centre, I would fit counterbalance valves here but you might get away with a flow control that meters out to that cylinder.
Hope this makes sense.
Cheers love the build
Do you think I could add motor spools to just the motor valves and leave the tandem spools for the loader and auxiliary hydraulics?
@@TRoutdoors2021 yes you could, however you will just coast to a stop when you release the valve. I think this would be awful to operate. But it would work and the other functions will operate fine.
I recently am almost completing a long project tracked articulating stump grinding machine that is Drive with tracks and is a ride on unit 66 horsepower 12 ft long 10 belt drive articulating head rear bulldoze push blade and the whole unit is only 33 in wide to be able to drive in a gate all powered by single pump
I always wanted to put a Reese hitch on the standing platform of one of these. Then make a trailer with a seat on it like a sulky. Then you could "ride it" into the woods. Unhook the trailer. Load it with the skid steer and "ride it" out
Auxiliary dump trailer 👍🏻 I like the idea
You take out the detent on the hydraulic valve body levers so they spring back to the neutral position for driving the hydraulic motors
There is no detent, it’s spring to center it’s the spool inside is not a motor spool so it’s acting like a on off switch I think I’m just going to start with flow control valves
@@TRoutdoors2021 I have returned to Center on my valve body running my hydraulic drive Motors I am running 540 CC displacement monsters
Since you have all controls going to one valve bank, it makes it a little harder. Put an adjustable flow control valve after motor supply valve. This will let you fine tune the flow. You probably also did not get motor spools for you bank. This will make it jerky bc it stops the flow in both directions when center. No bled off but it does brake well. I am building the same and have a two section pump and two valves. I will be able to put one flow control on the motors coming from the first section. The second will power the arms. Great build btw.
Am I able to still get motor spools the valve body I have? It’s a cheaper eBay valve that I thought was more for motor control but I guess not. I’m not quite sure what to look for I guess
@@TRoutdoors2021 what is the model number? I will take a peek. Motor spools will still jerk a little, just not as much as double acting spools. The flow adjustment will help either way. Right now you are pushing as much "water" through the garden hose as possible. Then "capping" it. By lowering the flow you can fine tune the "water" going through the hose.
Chris, I don’t believe it has a model or number or anything seems to be a very common style of mono block valve sold by many. I believe they call them a p40 valve? But this is my exact valve I bought. Seems like you can get this valve with tandem spools or motors but I’m not sure if I could have both in the same valve body I can’t find anything that says you can or can’t www.ebay.com/itm/175024626523?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QgUYzu1nQ3i&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=roe91-IaTva&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
But I found some just single spools you can buy at princess auto for motors and they have a couple different styles and lengths I just don’t know if the circuit will with with two different spools. My thought is the motor spools will be under little pressure in center position but also bleed back to tank allowing the rest of my valves to still function correct?
@@TRoutdoors2021 yeah those are cylinder spools. You could add a two spool motor valve but you would have to make sure it had power beyond plug. The only problem with power beyond is anything upsteam (motors) will get priority over anything downstream (cylinders). Probably you cheapest bet is to put a adjustable flow valves on and slow the amount of fluid going in and out
Love this, sub’d 👍🏻
May want to add a center bucket support and replaceable cutting edge
I haven’t had the bucket move much in the center yet or flex. I thought about that when I was building it and figured it would be an easy add on if it was needed. Same with the edge. Same thinking though 👌🏻
At the rear of the cylinder needs more enforcement on the Boom and you need bump stops behind the bucket where the frame of the boom can hit the frame of the machine also the bucket needs a Cutting Edge or it will easily Bend Cutting Edge is easily purchased at just about any equipment place and have been fairly cheap until the last few years maybe a half inch Cutting Edge weld on type for your bucket it's best to use this type of metal because it is very tough springy and abrasion resistance
Yeah support is coming, Bracket u channel is already there and I just haven’t put the cutting edge on yet 👍🏻
Bad ass man ,
Thanks!
do you need some kind of end stop valve on the cylinders or they just stop at the end of travel and the preasure relieve does the job? Planing to build a similar thing. After what you said about the motors i am leaning towards 125cm3 which is aprox 25 % less of what you have got. What do you think? Or my understanding is wrong and to get more control over motors i should use the bigger ones? There is no difference in price btwn 125 , 160 or 400 cc
Chory, I don’t have any end stops. The cylinders do bottom out and then the pressure relief for safety (2100psi) but it never gets to that point because you can catch it in time. I am very happy with the motor choice I went with and they are very powerful. I can turn on solid surfaces with a bucket full of material. I don’t think I would be able to do that with smaller motors? Sorry for the late response I was up at my cabin with no service there. I had a blast figuring everything out and building it. It’s being painted starting this weekend. If you have more questions let me know and I’ll try to pass down what I learned so far
@@TRoutdoors2021 Thanks for taking a time to reply. I have spoken to someone who knows about the hydrolics and the guy said that installing a bigger motor or/and thiner hoses will give more control at the spool.
I am wondering how you tighten the chain so it does not jerk and wear prematurely. Would be nice to see you giving some dimension details and also driving the thing around 😁
Great build. I am doing minę a bit differently but lerned a lot from your videos.Really helpfull,honest appriciation.
It is very difficult to run everything off of a single pump and have everything with good speed not too fast or not too slow plus when you run two different functions at once they will both slow down a bunch
Honestly it’s pretty good like multiple functions at the same time. And speed Control for loader functions is perfect. Just need to smooth out the drive motors a bit
@@TRoutdoors2021 maybe large displacement or different gearing ratio
@@TRoutdoors2021 on a regular mini skid steer you gently work the controls to steer it anyways if you just throw the control all the way forward the thing is going to take off rather quickly if you just let off the control and let it spring back to neutral the machine will come to a quick halt
do you have a build of materials and a design for the frame?
I do not I was just building it with material I had mostly and went on the fly. I do have a word document with most of the parts I used
Looking good. It look like your bucket cylinder is at least 10" of travel? Are you fully utilizing all of it mechanical movement? If not, I would suggest to increase the leverage pivot. It looks like it doesn't have enough leverage because the way how it drop when going down too fast and too much... and that's with no load... .imagine with 300lbs in the bucket, when you drop it, it going to drop like a rock. Also, to smother out the control lever.... maybe machine out the thumb like I did... that's so much better for me, the straight lever is crap.
It does drop a bit but honestly I think it was me trying to film and opening up the valve for the bucket to fast. Haha
Looks great!! Do you have plans??
Thanks! No plans just planned it on the go and worked around what I had to keep costs down a bit.
@@TRoutdoors2021 Can you please send me your parts list? I would love to build this!
Working on a word doc right now. I’m going to try and make it in to a url soon and post it on my community tab and each video
EXCELLENT!!
$$$$？
About 3000$ +/- a couple hundred