Preamp Shootout - Sound Devices MixPre VS Zoom F/H VS Rode VS Roland
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2018
- This video should give you a good indication how these devices compare in terms of preamp noise and how much noise you can expect in the real world.
More technical infos can be found on my second channel Julian Krause 2. - Jak na to + styl
Nice work Julian. Your results and my personal experience line up nicely. I've always found the Zoom H series recorders to be quite noisy with dynamic mics and the Zoom F and SD MixPres to do quite well with dynamic mics. Thanks for this!
Hey Curtis, I was also very pleased with how the measured numbers match my real-world experience with these devices. Great to know that you feel the same way!
Can you re-test after introducing a Fethead or Cloudlifter into you dynamic mic test?
That´s an interesting idea, I´ll see if I can get my hands on these devcies!
hello sir i have a question........for short film on youtube which one do you prefer..... ZOOM H5 OR RODE Ai 1 ?????????
Curtis and Julian. Top 10 Greatest Anime Crossovers.
Perfect review/comp!wish all CZcams videos were this direct and to the point.
Just what I was looking for! THANK YOU for the thorough analysis!
Great video and lots of information, Julian the Genius aha 👍 keep it up love your work
this is awesome, thanks for doing this comparison Julian!
Excellent tests and great explanation. Thank you for making and sharing it.
Julian, thanks for your objective review!
Great job Julian, thanks!
Hi Julian,
Your measurements are a great public service. Thank-you so much for taking the time to share them. I also appreciate your color-coded rating system for interpretation for users of microphones with different output levels.
I wrote a lot below about preamp performance, but the tl;dr is that EIN is most useful at gains that preserve reasonable dynamic range and distortion performance. Nature recordists, marketers and sales-people benefit from EIN at maximum gain, others would benefit more from having good noise performance along with low distortion, an absence of aliasing, and adequate headroom.
An EIN and distortion comparison at constant resolution, e.g., the highest preamp gain setting that leaves 96dB dynamic range (16 real bits) on the recorder, and the EIN and dynamic range at the gain setting where the preamp noise makes a 3dB contribution to the recorded noise, would be more telling apples-to-apples noise performance metrics.
The most comprehensively useful comparison I can imagine would be plots of EIN, dynamic range, and common-mode rejection ratio, each as a function of gain.
The long version
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Your measurements are useful to me, a ribbon microphone user. But maximum gain isn’t especially relevant to condenser microphones, as they’re capacitor mics are typically too sensitive for >40 dB gain to leave even fifteen bits of resolution (90dB dynamic range). Some condensers can clip a field recorder at 0dB preamp gain, where recorder preamp noise is often *not* swamped by the noise floor of the microphone. That noise could be quite relevant, e.g., after dynamics processing.
EIN is commonly given at maximum gain for marketing reasons, not usefulness to sound engineers. When EIN is being provided to engineers for utility, it’s given as a curve on a graph, a function of gain. Preamp datasheets from chip manufacturers like TI, AD, and THAT Semi. provide EIN vs. gain plots, THD+N vs. gain plots, and CMRR vs. gain plots which together tell a pretty comprehensive story about amps performance.
What those plots typically show is that at low gain, distortion is low and EIN is high (how low and high is of course amp dependent). As gain increases, EIN falls quickly at first and levels off, right in the same range as distortion tends to start showing up, somewhere between 20dB and 40dB gain. At 60dB, preamps are at or near their marketing EIN figure, along with more distortion and less headroom than one would typically want to use.
Nice amps get pretty quiet by 20dB and stay pretty clean until 40dB. More typical amps in portable devices start getting harsh by 20dB and don’t get quiet until 40dB.
(Distortion is easy to handle at low gain because there is plenty of negative feedback to correct it, even in a single opamp, and plenty of noise to cover it up. Noise is high because the gain isn’t yet high enough for the input device’s noise to swamp the contribution of other devices in the signal path, so the noise of every device adds up. Even the gain-setting resistor on the inverting leg of (an) opamp(s) typically contributes significant noise until >36dB gain is reached even in a class-leading power-hungry opamp like the AD797. This issue is exacerbated in portable devices and their power-sipping chips because power consumption concerns encourage the use of larger -> noisier gain setting resistors).
One particularly interesting gain level to performance-profile, a sweet-spot that balances EIN performance vs. against dynamic range and distortion performance, is where the preamp+load noise equals the ADC “recorder” noise, (even when they’re in the same device). One finds it by starting at zero dB gain with a dummy load plugged in and increasing gain until the noise increases by 3dB. At this point noise and dynamic range are typically only about 3dB from their best possible values, and improvements to one come at great cost to the other. Recording chains tend to be about as clean and quiet as they’re going to get, so for general purpose use one can set, forget, and be present in the moment, listening. For especially quiet sources, get closer. For especially loud sources, drop the gain and put in hearing protection or walk away.
Best/George
Hey George, finding the crossover point where the noise performance of the recording device is equally limited by the dynamic range and the EIN is a very interesting topic. Plotting the noise performance can be tell you much more about a device than just the simple EIN and dynamic range measurements. I actually did this for the Zoom F4 once: czcams.com/video/y11eflxKJXE/video.html But the noise is not in dBu, so the graph is not that useful. Of course, making multiple measurements over the whole gain range of a device will get very time intensive very fast and I sadly don't have the time to test everything. I wish this was my main job :) Thanks for your comment, I appreciate all your input!
Excellent information well presented.
Agree, this is so practical. Thank you.
Thanks Julian for that Test! 🙏
Thanks so much from France
Nice one, I wonder what will the Juiced link RA333 sound like.
Hi Julian! Amazing video! I have a Zoom H5 and I am using it with a Sennheiser EW G4 - I find the recording noise or hiss way too loud so I am thinking to upgrade to the SD Mixpre 3. Would the EWg4 with the clip mic be considered a dynamic microphone? Do you think I would see a quality increase with the SD MixPre 3? Thanks a lot again for the amazingly informative video!
wow thanks. just what i was looking for
How about the result would be if Zoom H1N is also included? Thanks!
Great channel 👍🏻
Hi Julian is the preamp gain also relevant for the comparison of the real life noise levels of the different devices?
Really helpful information Julian. Thanks for doing this test. I've got a Z4 that we use for audio capture in the field with both condenser shotguns and wired and wireless lav kits. Do you have any results when using wireless kits from the usual suspects from Sony, Sennheiser, Rode and now Deity? Thank you.
Hey, I haven't tested any wireless mic options yet, maybe in the future.
Is the measurement known for signal to noise with H5+internal mics? I think it would be very interesting to compare noise levels with a popular condenser against the xyh-5. Also no self-noise comparison between xyh-5 and xyh-6 (rumoured to be quieter) while zoom infamously secretive with their specs Great video by the way.
Amazing thank you
Hi, what do you think about UAD Apollo Unison Preamp?
Please make review on zoom u-24 &44
Nice Video!!
I have the original mixpre-6 and the mixpre-10 series II. Sound devices says the ein for them is 128 dbu. Do you think the ein you got is unique to your device or is it the same for all of them? I wish I could test the ones I have.
Great video. Very to-the-point. In my experience with the Zoom H5, the included XY-mics have quite a bit of noise, but using for example a Neumann TLM-102 LDC using the Zoom as a preamp yields less noise. Because of this I'm assuming that the included mics are a bit noisy.
You are right, the built-in mics of the H5 do have a bit of noise. The TLM-102 on the other hand is a very low noise condenser mic and because of that you can get very low noise recordings, even with the H5.
Julian, You know what max gain preamp of Roland Dou-Capture EX ? Thanks!
Hi Julian, so this would mean that my NT1 produces an unacceptable amount of self-noise. I've been digging through your videos the last couple of days to learn more about microphones and USB audio interfaces (thanks for that) since my combo M-audio C400 and Rode NT1 on Win 10 is pretty much unusable as it produces way too much noise and a weak signal (can't use it for live streaming, have to gain a lot in post). The gain on the C400 is set to 95% and the gain in Windows is set to 100% (this includes all gains set to 100% in the software control panel as well). Couldn't it be that the C400 IS producing too much noise or that my computer has something to do with that? Thanks.
Can you review the preamp on zoom H8
Hey Julian. I ran across your video in my suggestion feed and I’m glad I did. Really appreciate you breaking everything down with such detail. You definitely have a new sub in me. Question. I’m currently in the process of putting together a podcast and I have a pretty spacious room so sound is bouncing around everywhere. I’m not hoping for a miracle but I was wondering, if I already have zoom H6, a Shure sm7b and a cloudlifter, will another preamp isolate floor noise further (hopefully completely 😬), or am I just wasting my time gadget collecting? Thanks in advance.
Hey, the preamp doesn't have any effect on the ambient noise you are recording. With the Cloudlifter you already got a very low noise preamp and any other solution wouldn't change the amount of ambient noise in your recording. The solution is to bring your SM7B as close to your mouth as possible. This way your voice is recorded much stronger in comparison to the reflections of your room. A subtle noise gate in post production can also help to lower room reflections. Of course, treating your room with absorbent materials would be the best thing to do but I also understand that this is not always possible. So, get you mic close and maybe use a gate in post processing.
Julian Krause #REALMVP🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Thank you
Hi Julian, sorry dass ich auf Deutsch schreibe, aber mein Englisch :-((( Kurze Frage: ich pendele für den Neukauf eines Fieldrecorders unentschlossen zwischen Zoom f4 und Sound devices Mixpre3. Vor- und Nachteile habe ich wohl großteils verstanden. Was mich verunsichert ist die Laufzeit (Akku/Patterie) des Mix Pre 3 der an sich (Größe/Gewicht/Limiter) bei mir auf Platz 1 steht. Kannst Du zu den Laufzeiten mit den internen Batterien etwas sagen? Und wenn ich es richtig verstehe, kann ich den Mix Pre 3 nur per USB an externe Stromquellen anschließen, ist das so? Sicher etwas ungut, wenn es so wäre, im Einsatz draußen. Da gäbe mir der Hirose vom Zoom ein besseres Gefühl. Aber vlt liege ich auch falsch? Ich brauche den Recorder in der Hauptsache, um in der Natur Geräusche, Tierstimmen usw. aufzunehmen (Ein Richtrohr mit Phantomspeisung), aber auch am Schnittplatz zur Nachvertonung. Es würde mich freuen, wenn Du mir weiter helfen könntest.
Hey, ich habe die Akkulaufzeit in dem Video getestet: czcams.com/video/9AYYHpjypcQ/video.html
Der MixPre-3 läuft mit 4 AA Akkus so zwischen 2 - 2,5 Stunden.
Wenn du eine USB Powerbank anschließt hält der MixPre-3 natürlich deutlich länger. Ich persönlich würde den MixPre-3 mit einer Powerbank betreiben. Der USB-C Stecker rastet recht gut ein und man muss keine große Angst haben, dass die Verbindung getrennt wird. Fall doch, springt der MixPre-3 direkt auf die internen Batterien über. Zu beachten ist, dass du eine Powerbank brauchst, die 7,5 Watt kontinuierlich leisten kann.
Ansonsten gibt es auch noch Batteriefachadapter auf Hirose. Z.B. den hier: www.cabletechniques.com/product-page/mx-powersled-external-dc-power-adaptor-for-sound-devices-mixpre-3-6
Und hier sind noch einige weitere Optionen gelistet, wie man den MixPre-3 bepowern kann:
www.sounddevices.com/?id=1116:mixpre-3-mixpre-6-powering-options
Ansonsten kann ich nur sagen, dass du mit dem F4 oder dem MixPre-3 eigenlicht nichts falsch machen kannst. Beides sind super Geräte und bieten sehr gute Audioqualität.
Die Hauptunterschiede sind die Anzahl der Kanäle, die Bedienung und die Baugröße (und vll. noch Limiter). Wenn du 4 Kanäle brauchst und ein bisschen weniger ausgeben , dann ist der F4 für dich. Falls dir 3 Kanäle reichen und du bereit bist ein wenig mehr zu zahlen, dann kann ich dir den MixPre-3 empfehlen.
Vielen Dank für die schnelle Antwort - Du hast mir sehr geholfen! Da ich in der Regel nur mit einem Richtmikro, bzw. seltener mit einem matched Pair unterwegs bin, wird es wohl der MixPre-3 werden. Der hat dann für mich mehr als genug Kanäle, und er ist doch deutlich leichter. Nochmals: Danke!
Hallo Julian, eine kurze Frage möchte ich noch nachreichen: gibt es für den MixPre 3 eine Deutsche Bedienungsanleitung? Ich habe erst einmal nur für den Zoom F4 eine gefunden, nicht jedoch für den MixPre 3...
Gute Frage... Jetzt wo du es sagts, es scheint gar keine deutsche Anleitung zu geben. Habe im Internet nichts gefunden und bei meinem MixPre-3 war auch keine deutsche Anleitung dabei. Ansonsten mal bei Sound Devices in Berlin anrufen, vielleicht können die da mehr zu sagen.
Vielen Dank für den Rat. Es hat mir geholfen!
Mein Erlebnis mit der Sound Devices Niederlassung in Berlin, schildere ich hier nachfolgenden kurz: Ein etwas mürrischer Herr (Berlin? ;-)) nahm das Gespräch entgegen und erklärte auf meine Frage nach einer deutschen Betriebsanleitung für den MixPre 3, dass es diese tatsächlich nur in Englisch gäbe. Mit der Antwort wollte er mich schnell abhängen, versprach mir aber auf meine Vorhaltungen, diesbezüglich einmal nachzufragen. Ergebnis: Für dieses Produkt sei Englisch die Fachsprache, deshalb würde es auch zukünftig keine Deutsche Anleitung geben. Dies entspricht fast 1:1 dem Wortlaut im Gesetzestext und ist somit ok. - Schade sich für ein so teures Produkt so rauszureden. Für mich wurde es deshalb der Zoom F4, mit einer in bestem Deutsch verfassten, sehr umfangreichen Bedienungsanleitung.
Ty
Hello Sir. What will give me a crystal clear sound without the hiss when doing ASMR videos? Thank you in advance.
awesome video! thank you for the information. I just wonder.. why does the dummy mic resistance value have to be 150 ohm? Where did the 150 ohm value come from? I'm really curious...!
Hey, 150 Ohm is an average impedance of a dynamic microphone and that's why it is used for testing. It's not a real standard but most manufacturers measure with 150 Ohms to keep things comparable.
@@JulianKrause aha ! Thank you!
@@JulianKrause And, another question !! How did you analyze the noise floor values? For tools such as Adobe Audition, the RMS value is displayed as dBfs. How did you convert the dBfs value to the dBu value? If the maximum input voltage is +24 dBu, O VU is + 4 dBu (= - 20dBfs). So did you calculate the dBu value like this, (+ 24 - N(noise floor RMS value)dBfs) dBu? How was the value in dBu calculated, such as -129.7 dBu? *_*
Hi Juilian you have done a great job on this video! Do you think there is much different if you paired a sennheiser mkh 416 with a zoom h5 compared to the mix pre 3? As the mic is very expensive is it worth it getting a better pre amp recorder.
Thanks
Hey, glad you liked the video! When using a MKH 416 on a Zoom H5 or a MixPre-3 the difference in noise will be negligible. Of course, there are other reasons to go for a MixPre-3 like the limiter and higher dynamic range. Because of that the MixPre-3 is more forgiving when setting the recording levels. The Zoom H5 will also provide very high audio quality but you have to be a bit more careful to set your levels correctly.
If you already own a Zoom H5 I would recommend that you get a decent mic first. This will give you the biggest improvement in audio quality. And if you want you can upgrade your sound recorder to a later date if you need to.
Btw: This whole video was recorded with a Schoeps CMC641 and a Zoom H5 recorder. I paired a 1600 dollar mic with a 250 dollar audio recorder. Would you have noticed? ;)
Thank you so much for replying so quickly Julian :) You are the best channel for sound! So you would agree there isnt really a point in getting a mix pre 3 to get higher audio quality and just stick to the Zoom H5 for all my client work?
Thanks for the compliment! I think if you are still learning to get good sound it is more important to master the basics of audio recording first. Correct mic placement for example will make a much bigger improvement in sound than buying better equipment. I mean, if you have money to spare buy the best equipment you can get. But to be honest with a H5 and a decent mic you can get nearly identical result at a fraction of the cost. Just out of curiosity, which mic are you currently using for your videos?
Julian Krause Yeah i agree with you Julian! I had borrowed my friends NTG2 and paired it up with a zoom H5 before and i had a lot of noise floor. Thats the only reason why I was very curious about the mix pre 3 I heard heaps of good things about it and was willing to spend money on a good pre amp :) but I know you are very knowledgeable so im guessing a better mic with a H5 seems the way to go 👍
Before you go full out on expensive equipment try to improve your recording setup first. You will be surprised by the audio quality you can achieve!
I would suggest borrowing the NTG2 again and position it just out of frame on a stand. If you get the mic close the noise will also be very low.
This video demonstrates the concept nicely and it shows how important proper mic placement is: czcams.com/video/TUEmQBZKoBs/video.html
Hope that helps and keep your videos coming!!!
What about zoom H6?
For a company that makes products for the consumer/lower-end market, The Zoom F series is actually quite impressive. I like the big step that Zoom took in the direction of making professional sound recorders on/near the level of Sound Devices prosumer models.
Absolutely! that few dBu difference is so small and what will matter a whole lot more is how close you can actually get the mic to the source, how well you record the sound in the first place and what mic you will be using😉
JK - Do you know the Equivalent input noise of the Zoom UAC-2 ? Thanks a lot
No idea, the manufacturer does not state that spec and I haven't measured this interface yet.
hello sir i have a question........for short film on youtube which one do you prefer..... ZOOM H5 OR RODE Ai 1 ?????????
Hey, in think the H5 is more suited for this task, because it is a mobile recorder. You don't need a PC to record audio, so your more flexible. For shortfilms would prefer the Zoom H5.
Do you still have these recordings? Can you perform spectral analysis of the noise? It seems that SD noise is a bit more bassey. That would confirm the opinions about difference in tonality between that and the Zoom F series preamp.
Back, when I made these tests, I had a look at the spectrum and it is exactly as you describe it. The noise of the MixPre rises slightly stronger in the lower frequencies than the other products. This is resulting in the change of pitch of the noise.
@@JulianKrause Do you think that it is true also for the signal ampified? That there is some colouration of the signal towards bass in that amplifier?
Nice video. Which preamp gain value is utilized for these test?
Hey dxmat, the Equivalent Input Noise is always tested at the maximum gain setting.
@@JulianKrause Ok danke. Nice work.
Thanks for this test. I'm not sure I understand why it says max gain--typically there's a noise bump at the end of the gain when turning the gain pot to max, even if it is digital. Or I'm missing something? I'm not sure how I would do this test, probably start with a measurement mic and test/match the pres at some typical gain settings with a mix of input sounds, or just maybe use 50dB. It's my experience that with for example a ribbon mic, the way the mic impedance matches the preamp has a big effect on the noise (net input impedance). Benchmark recommends a 20kHz brick wall.
SD gives their noise figure at 128, which is good, but 129.7 would be really good, if that pans out. If your tests are getting 129.7 that certainly rules out extra noise from for example the resistor. In my own limited testing I often find variance from one pre to another.
Hey, it is a misconception that preamps get noisier at higher gain settings. I made a video all about it, if you’re curious: czcams.com/video/beXVfl1TSD0/video.html
Specifically the part at 2:45 is important here. Preamps always have the best signal-to-noise ratio at the maximum setting and the EIN measurement is done at the maximum gain to find out the best possible performance of the preamp.
One note on manufacturers specs. Sometimes they are a-weighted and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they are measured with a 150 Ohm load and sometimes even with the input shorted. That's why it often not so easy to directly compare these numbers. All my measurements are done with the same measurement setup and are directly comparable.
At very low noise numbers like 133 dBu(A) the noise of the resistor actually comes into play as itself becomes the dominant source of noise.
@@JulianKrauseThanks so much from VoM team.
I'm new to this field and as far as I've heard most people use condenser mics for nature recording. I've also heard about preamps being highly important. Are you suggesting that preamp quality is not factor with condensor mics? Just curious because most of the research I've done has suggested otherwise. I haven't heard of many people using dynamic mics for nature recording.
Hey, that's correct. When you use a condenser mic, the noise of the mic will be the dominant factor and the preamp noise is hardly effecting your recording. It's the complete opposite with dynamic mics. Here the preamps contribute quite a lot to the overall noise floor.
Despite that, condenser mics are preferred for nature recording, as they have a more natural sound compared to dynamics. Additionally condensers can be much lower noise than dynamic mics which is important when you record quiet ambient sounds.
@@JulianKrause so i have a zoom 6 and i have to have the recording level at 100 to get some outside ambient noise. Wouldn't a mixpre give me a better recording of quiet sounds with a condensor mic? If you plug a condensor mic into a h6 vs a mixpre won't the mixpre's preamps make a difference? In other words isn't the mixpre better even for condensor mics?
Is the noise of the Zoom really an issue? It seems to me that it is designed to be a field recorder, and in those sorts of situations background noise will be very common and post-production work will be necessary anyways to remove some of the noise.
I don't think that the preamp noise of the zoom is a big problem. Especially when you use condenser mics, the preamp noise is irrelevant as you are limited by the noise of your mic.
I agree with the results. The only thing that ends up being moderately confusing is how a noise floor of -120dBu could ever be audible in the final recording, given that a recording with a noise floor as high as -60dB or -70dB is already considered a relatively "clean" broadcast-quality recording in many situations. How much gain was added to the noise recordings in post?
Hey RedBearAK, I understand your confusion. An EIN of -120dBu does not mean, that you will end up with a noise floor of -120dBFS in your recording. The EIN is merely a standardized measurement to compare devices to each other. The final noise floor of your recording will be heavily influenced by your mic position and how loud your recorded sound source is.
Julian Krause Yeah that makes sense. I guess what I’m really wanting to know is if I analyzed (with Adobe Audition or TwistedWave or another audio editor) the recordings you made of the preamp noise, what would I see reported under “Total RMS” or LUFS, in dBFS units that I can more easily relate to other recordings. I would love to take a look at the actual WAV files.
Hey, it will not help you, if I would tell you the RMS of my noise measurements. Preamp noise is always tested at full gain. In the real world, that´s typically not where you would set your gain. But I know what you want. You essentially want to have a guideline, to where a noise floor is considered to be acceptable in real world recordings. Your numbers of -60dBFS to -70dBFS where pretty close to what I would consider low noise. If you would have a dialogue recording, that´s where your noise floor should typically end up. Of course, lower is always better:) But there are a few more things to watch out for when evaluation noise and in a few days, I will upload a video in which I will show my methods of testing sound recordings for noise!
There is something I miss. Can someone explain? What about the maximum gain achieved by the devices? Are they all normalized to the same figure? Otherwise, it wouldn't be fair. If one device is 1dB noisier, but then, achieves 3dB extra-gain... it would be the winner even if it is noisier right? How can the effective gain value be ignored?
Hey, when doing the measurements all devices are referenced to a known voltage. This essentially eliminates the gain from the equation and brings all devices to a level playing field. That´s why you can compare the EIN numbers without worrying about their gain.
Julian Krause Nice! I would have used pink noise instead, in order to check that all these devices offer the same frequency range too (they should). Because if one has a wider range than another, it wouldn’t be fair in the EIN comparison. Very picky topic, but your comparison is already very nice, sir!
Sir one more qustion which one do u prefer for film audio recording....zoom h5. Or zoom h6 or tascam 60d markii ???????
This really depends on what you need. The H6 has more inputs. If you use 4 microphones simultaniously the H6 might be the right choise. If you only need two inputs the H5 and the Tascam DR-60D MKII are both decent little recorders. The H5 is a bit smaller, which I personally prefer. But the DR-60D MKII is cheaper, so if you don't want to spend as much, it might be worth a look. I would say, go for the H6 if you need all the inputs, otherwise decide between the H5 and DR-60D MKII.
The Zoom F4 is massively superior to any of those you mentioned! And the F4 isn't much more expensive than the H6 at all when on sale.
But if I was FORCED TO spend my own money on one of those you listed instead, then I'd pick the Tascam DR60Dmk2 (but only until I could buy a F4....)
Hey Julian, I'm wondering whether you could run a "subjective" test? You can record talking clips using the same dynamic mic but with different preamps. Include the clips here so that viewers can decide whether they can perceive any difference. What do you think? Mark.
Totally, I'm planning on doing a video where I compare the audio quality of very expensive and very cheap audio recording gear. There will be a listening test as well. But it will take a while till I get to it, so don't get too exited yet ;)
@@JulianKrause Awesome! I understand there is work involved. Please don't let us wait too long ...... Thanks in advance! Mark.
@@JulianKrause Can you include Zoom Livetrak preamp?
@@paweprzybylski2857 Hey, I currently don't have access to the Livetrack. But if I had to guess, I would say that it probably uses the same preamp as the F-series.
@@JulianKrause definately not. In Livetrak it has only +60dB of gain and they claim that it is their quieter preamp. I just wonder how can you compare preamps with such different level of max gain.
Julian, you mentioned that you have another channel. What channel is that?
It creatively called: Julian Krause 2
Julian Krause thanks, I found it
@@JulianKrause It's like HBO East and HBO West. Appreciate all you do Jules.
Thank you have you tested the zoom H6?
No, I haven't. But as far as I know the preamps in the H6 are identical to the H5.
@@JulianKrause Thank you. I appreciated your testing. Agreed i do mostly interviews very little music recording and haven't notice noise. Proper microphone placement is critical I learned this in high school. Keep up the great work.
If Zoom Livetrak preamp has its EIN measured for +60dB of max gain instead of +75dB max gain for F series, does it mean that it has 15dB higher noise floor of the preamp?
No, the EIN eliminates the gain from the equation. You can directly compare the EIN regardless of the max gain of the device.
@@JulianKrause Then why it is always measure at the Max gain?
@@przybylskipawel Because when you do the EIN measurement of audio recorders you measure the noise of the whole system including the analog to digital converter. At max gain the noise of the preamp is much stronger than any other noise in the system. This way you ensure that you measure primarily the preamp noise which is the focus of this measurement.
@@JulianKrause So in other words I should get cleaner recording with Livetrak than with F series up until the point when +60dB is not enough gain?
@@przybylskipawel The Livetrack has an EIN of -128dBu(A) and the F series -127dBu(A). If you set both to 60dB of gain the live track has 1dB less noise (which btw in practice is negligible). As long as you keep the gain on both devices the same, the noise difference will be 1dB. Now, if you turn up the f series further to 75dB you get 15dB more noise compared to when you set the gain at 60dB. But your signal also gets 15dB stronger. so, the signal-to-noise ratio does not change. What you could also do is to use 15dB of digital gain on the livetrack recording to bring it up to 75dB gain. Then the noise would be again 1dB less than the F series at 75dB gain. Long story short, the preamp has always 1dB less noise on the livetrack compared to the F series when you use the same amount of gain on both devices.
Where does the Sound Devices 633 fit into the rankings?
Probably somewhere between the MixPre Series and Zoom F-Series.
why in my mixpre3 i listen so much noise when i increase the gain??? in 7-8-9 and 10... thats the noise floor of the mixpre3?
Hey, do you have any mic connected while testing the noisefloor?
yes sennheiser mkh 416
what do you prefeer? edirol r44 vs mixpre6 vs zoom f4?
When you connect a condenser mic to the MixPre-3 you will mainly hear the noise created by the mic itself. If you crank up the gain it will get noisy because you start to hear the noisefloor of your MKH416. At the very high gain settings it is normal to hear some noise.
Under normal working conditions you would never turn up the gain that high when a condenser mic is connected. Try speaking into the mic and set your gain to a proper level. After that record a bit of silence and evaluate the noise floor again.
I never used the Edirol R44, so I cannot say anything about that device. Personally, I would prefer a MixPre-6 over a Zoom F4 for my work. I do like the analog limiters and the smaller form factor of the MixPre-6. That said I think that the F4 still offers great value for the money.
In your another video, Rode AI-1 got -130dBu EIN. Here you put -127.
In the other video I measured the EIN with a source impedance of 0 Ohm. In this video I showed the EIN with 150 Ohms. Both measurments are valid, but the number in this video is directly comparable to other devices.
Sound Devices has less noise when measured using A-weighting. BUT! It has bigger low end rumble than Zoom has. I saw this only now, after all these years.
Not sure if that's true for all Zoom or SoundDevices products but I can confirm that I have seen this behaviour when comparing the F8 and MixPre-3. That said, the low frequency noise is still very low on the MixPre series and it's unlikely that this is audible in practice.
Μy My friend I am a proud owner of h5 and let me tell you it's high quality preamps the 4+ channels the high sample rate and the lovely capsule mic barely work for me as a musician, I mean barely it's just for conversations and capturing sound clip samples. It's so sad I thought all that I would be able to do wonders.... Nothing this noise is so bad. I cannot even use it as a mixer on a live set. 50 euro mixers beat it.
To me - using a good pair of headphones - it sounds somewhat differently:
The MixPre does not sound quieter than the two nearest competitors as it has a fair amount of low/mid frequency rumble. My ranking based on what I hear in this video is Røde, Zoom F, SoundDevices, Roland, Zoom H
I hear from audient ID4 and genelec 8010, not sure if that is good enough, but mixpre 3 really slightly better than others, also if you follow the video, you find not so many difference, but when you jump back, you will notice the difference.
so what to buy that isn't $650 LOL?
If you are just starting out a Zoom H4n would be a good choice.
@@JulianKrause H4n Pro. The original has even noisier preamps. Also the F4 can be had for $400-$550 dollars. B&H puts it on sale from time to time.
My recorder is a Zoom H6. Is anyone really going to take me seriously if I present paid work done with this recorder?
Recording with the H6 might not look the most "professional" but you can definitely capture high quality audio. So, I would let the audio quality speak for itself and don't worry about the equipment too much ;)
@@JulianKrause It is very kind of you to answer my question. Thank you.
Si koi hindi me video hai
96khz recording is a bit unnatural, I assume you use this?
Hey, why is 96 kHz unnatural? I usually record with 48 kHz as this is plenty for spoken word.
@@JulianKrause Interesting, your voice sounds a bit more close to the ear compared to a typical 44.1/48khz recording. Anyway, take my word back.
I find 44.1khz most natural for human to understand spoken words. Maybe that is just my preference. High sampling frequencies appear to be more appealing, but I can't listen to that for too long.
@@JulianKrause I also find most 3.5mm input sounds much more natural than xlr input. Even though the former is much more noisier in most devices.
Totally useless review. Zoom h5 noise -120dbu, really? Zoom noises as hell. What about real life test, without "fancy diagrams"?