The most notorious scientific feud in history - Lukas Rieppel
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2021
- Get to know one of the most infamous scientific rivalries in history, known as the Bone Wars, where two scientists competed to find dinosaur fossils.
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After the California Gold Rush of 1848, settlers streamed west to strike it rich. In addition to precious metals, they unearthed another treasure: dinosaur bones. Two wealthy scientists in particular- Othniel Charles Marsh and Edward Drinker Cope- competed to uncover these prehistoric monsters. Lukas Rieppel digs into one of the most notorious scientific feuds in history, known as the Bone Wars.
Lesson by Lukas Rieppel, directed by Michael Kalopaidis, Zedem Media.
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Is it only me who finds Cope "donating his brain to prove that he has larger mind" insanely hilarious?
"How's that funny?"
- Donald Trump
Science has proven that our brains do grow when it comes to intelligence--albeit temporary. The common analogy our science teachers explain, the brain is similar to a sponge--it absorbs all knowledge until it resets itself filtering out any information useless. So, it wasn't entirely farfetched for Cope to assume this theory--and that's the beauty of science compared to just naming a few dozen bones. Nevertheless, Cope contributed his body to science to help us understand our human biology while apparently Marsh didn't do too much after he was granted a sliver patter due to his close connections with the science community. And ironically, most of Marsh's discoveries were either renamed, forgotten, or became a nomen dubious genus while most of Cope's findings are still household names to both science and the general public: Elamosaurus, Tylosaurus, Edaphosaurus, Clidastes, Camarasaurus, and Coelophysis are among this list.
Yeah and smaller brains are actually ironically smarter which is odd but true.
@@mr.n7237 I think he was trying to measure physical size.
@@shambhav9534 Either way, the incentive to study our bodies was partly thanks to Cope.
They literally had a bone to pick with each other
Too obvious, dude. Try harder.
This comment gunna get like 10k likes
@@letsgetreal2501 hey, settle down now ok?
@@letsgetreal2501
*Well, That Pun Was Gonna Come.*
@@letsgetreal2501 No knees to be rude 😁
A true rivalry to the death with attempts to compare post mortem brain sizes
quite mind-blowing
Given Mental Capacities are independent of Brain Size and solely depends on number of neural connections within the caranium. That they didn't had any Technology to measure in 1897.I thinking that move was Pretty ridiculous and Only Show stupidity of cope
..haha...i lil past that even..:D
@@Sumirevins i think cope knew marsh would decline and felt like as long as he had the last word, despite its stupidity, he still *won. Ironically, this proved him to be the lesser intellectual like you said
@@Sumirevins Yeah, many scientists back then were soo arrogant and thought they knew it all. "Science" back then was often used to confirm biases and even racism. Even races were invented in that spirit. Some guy who collected skulls took the largest European skull he could find and the smallest skulls of other origins and compared them in size, and obviously the European skull had the biggest volume, so he concluded that Europeans are the smartest and then went on to divide other people into races, even though the categories were different than today. I don't get why people think that races are a biological reality when their definitions have changed so much (they were disproven by genetic study). So yeah, that's why we have races, and that's what people called science back in the day and used to justify their horrible views.
He just couldn't cope with his rival's unrelenting marsh forward
Budm Tsssh
Good one!
Well played!
Gg
Cope could not cope. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This sounded less like a rivalry, and more like Marsh routinely wiping the floor with Cope
Exactly!
To be fair, several of the species Marsh named were not real species, many were just diferent individuals of the same creature
FALSTAFF !!!!
honestly
It was not nearly as one sided as this video claims
I really like the way TED presents the “moral of the story” at the end of this one. It’s such a crucial concept.
Exactly!
Bias ruins science
Seeing those guys break bones that are millions of years older than them makes me wince
Uh....you didn’t see anything of the sort. You saw a cartoon depicting the scene. The actual event happened nearly a century ago.
@@henrylivingstone2971 Thanks for clearing that up /s
Well, technically they're just rocks
@@jjOnceAgain There fossilized bones not rocks.
Technically it's all just a simulation because we're all in the matrix
Imagine how many prehistoric fossils/remains would have been lost and destroyed due to this feud
At least six...
But Also imagine the advances science made because of it.
@@chesscom6199 but more it could have made if ego would not be there
From what I've read, they only destroyed either fossils they already had plenty of or worthless mix mashes of incomplete bones and fragments
I think the feud made more scientific discoveries than it lost tbh
We need a film of *The Bone Wars*
you need a whole show. and there has been many plans to make such a thing. but they all been cancelled
I saw that on Cinemax
Stone wars
There's a pretty entertaining historical fiction book by Michael Crichton (or at least, allegedly edited from his manuscript and published posthumously) called Dragon Teeth.
Or an Oversimplified video.
Of course the guy born to a rich family with a wimpy moustache lost. Someone should’ve told him to cope harder
Wow
Hello Mr Verified, first time being able to rely early to your comments
Ello I see u everywhere in ted ed videos!
Wasn’t the other guy richer?
@@grimaffiliations3671 and the other guy was the one who was committing bribery and intentionally embarrassing Cope the whole time. Plus March was even destroying fossils so Cope couldn't have them even though Marsh himself didn't want them.
It seems people in these comments are only on Marsh's side because he won.
one of my favourite stories in fossil history
Ross would have joined them if got a chance.
all you needed to defeat Ross is steal his sandwich
Yes his contribution would have been pivotal
Relax guys, Ross is on a break
Cope had mistaken the creature's long neck for his tail😂😂
*TRUE SCIENTIST*
Must admit I mistook it as well first time watching this video
@@linhhoang1363 😁😂
TBF, even scientists make mistakes, and prehistoric creatures weren't too well-known (anatomically speaking) since their fossilised remains were just being discovered.
Besides, what modern day analogue do we have for these creatures, especially dinosaurs and other prehistoric reptiles? Not much.
As a result, early reconstructions were what we now consider anatomically incorrect. For instance: one of the early reconstructions of Stegosaurus was depicted with an arched back.
Science is based on failure. As Popper stated, a theory is scientific as long as it can be proven false. Science is pretty much just an endless cycle of theories being proposed and either proven wrong by counterparts or remaining out there. It's an endless process of trial and error.
*"Wealthy pompous businessmen bullies fellow skinny bankrupt scientist!"*
Me: *I have seen this one before!*
(*cough cough* Edison-Tesla feuds *cough*)
This is so underrated x']
So true.
Lol the only difference is marsh was right in his research and debunking his opponent while Edison we all know. Everyone of them was a great scientists tho.
The difference is both paleontologist are revered rightfully in their field; while Edison is responsible (directly or indirectly) for more practical and important inventions; while his opponent is extremely overated and half of the stories of his magnificent inventions were made up or exaggerated
@@jjOnceAgain Tesla was great scientist in his own right with making one of the most significant invention in modern times (The AC Current is the reason as to why we can use electricity to such a high degree of efficiency).
Edison was a great inventor as well credited with inventing some of the world's most celebrated inventions but he was know to be quite egotistical at times and would go to severe lengths to make sure that his reputation would never be outshone by any other person.
Can you imagine the level of knowledge we could've gained (or maybe even lost) if these two had worked together?
It's called competition
@@linhhoang1363 I guess it works.
Cope definitely took the phrase "Mocking your enemy from your graveyard" too literally.
"Desperate Paleontologists" would be a great name for this reality TV series you're pitching here TED-Ed
Starring Ross Geller.
I would pay millions to watch the scene where he donates his brain to show his brain is larger lol
Only on the history channel
All the 'cope' puns aside, is everyone gonna ignore that his name was Edward *Drinker* Cope?
seems like a strange middle name lol
I’m guessing he was an alcoholic lol
It's the 1800's man, drinker is like normal
Maybe it was his mother's maiden name.
I mean the S in CS Lewis (the guy from Narnia) stands for "Staples" so, not the weirdest one out there
I mean, Benedict Crumblebumble is a thing, so I don't think this is that out of the ordinary.
Throwing shade to Branson vs. Bezos haha!!!! VERY TIMELY!
So who's Marsh and who's Cope?
@@rangv733 Only history and time will tell.
@@rangv733 Marsh is Bezos because he is richer?
@@kingdinodragonite3470 But branson's already succeeded
If only Marsh had accepted the challenge...imagine the portraits could've been of their brains instead.
You guys should do a video on Heinrich Schliemann. He was one of the first “Archeologists” in the modern age and most likely found the city of Troy, but he destroyed dozens of artifacts in pursuit of wealth and had a pretty crazy/sketchy life before that.
Ah yes, that time when two people played jigsaw puzzles with Dinosaur fossils
Can't believe I'm early to a ted ed video!!
Mee toooooo
Heck yeah! Usually the ones I watch are at least a day or two old. I made it!
What was relation between Marsh and Cope?
They have bone to pick.
Yes! The classic Leibniz vs. Newton! I'm so certain that this is what the video covers, and so familiar with the feud, that I don't even have to watch it to know. This was a great video, thanks for sharing!
Or Newton v Hooke.
I've never seen so many puns in a single comments section. I just can't cope with it
There's not. There's 2 puns reused. "a bone to pick" and "coping". That's practically it
An interesting story from the Gilded Age as we contend with two spoiled billionaires competing to become the first space tourist.
Their money, their choice.
Also if Branson and Bezos were actually spoiled, it was themselves who did the spoiling. They became billionaires by the sheer merit of their achievements.
Bruh this is basically an advancement in science tf u talking about
Their ambition is paving the way for all of us to get to space, first the elites, then in a hundred years, maybe it'll be as simple as riding a bus
@@cevcena6692 isnt that a good thing
@@peel8043 Course it is.
I'M TOTALLY OBSESSED WITH THE ARTWORK
So awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Edward Drinker Cope”
Now hold on we don’t need to talk about how he deals with life issues
"Bone Wars" sounds like something from a fantasy novel, a great battle against a necromancer.
Nothing encourages progress more than a rivalry
Love the artworks here, and very informative too as usual, top notch👍
Michael Crichton’s novel Dragon Teeth provides some insight into this rivalry.
Indeed, Cope practically lost his mind with rage.
he couldnt cope with it
Please post more videos about
-Aristotle teaching Alexander the great
-Islamic golden age (achievements,discoveries)
-Plato,Socrates,Aristotle teachings
-Tengrism religion
-Astronomy in Ottoman Empire
-Aristotle writings
I'm waiting for...
Cope: Hey Marsh, look at this long tailed dinosaur
Marsh: SO, YOU HAVE CHOSEN NECK!
The animation is so good, just like watching a very good animated movie.
I read this in a thick southern accent.
@@ryugo7713 why
The two smartest kids in the class fighting be like:
This came up on a podcast I listen to a few weeks back. Such an insane feud.
These is one of the most exciting and entertaining ted ed videos I've watched
This kind of sounds like the gravel wars from TF2
That is what I was thinking.
*Ted-Ed* you are the best ! I always like to learn new things, and you help me a lot in this regard. I can't express my love for you *Ted-Ed* . Thank you sooooo much !
Your first congratulations 🎉🎈🍾🎊
Congrats
@@dinoricky5188 Ikr, thx !
@@shivajidhawale5475 Thx
@@syedarushda2108 np
This is so interesting. Nobody told me about this feud. Thanks TedEd❤️
Never ever ever knew about this, but very interesting. Thanks ted-ed :)
“By his own admission, he wasn’t constructed for getting along comfortably with the general run of people.”
okay but my weird and chaotic introverted self relates to this on a spiritual level
Cope was a gentleman scholar. If i recall he came from wealth, so he was Upperclass from the get go. Marsh was not poor, but he did not have the same background as Cope.
At least they found “Copious” amount of bones
This is now my favorite science feud 😍😍😍😍😍😍
I liked the comic relief added in this informative talk
Cope can't cope with his mistake
I literally thought about this story's moral earlier today! I was learning about ancient languages that hadn't been decoded, and how many of the "scientists" who discovered them greedily stole the relics away, just so they could be the one to decipher it (The Rosetta Stone and Linear B specifically come to mind). There's science for the sake of knowledge and enlightenment, and then there's science for the sake of fame, glory and profit. You'd hope we'd have grown since then, but then there's incidents like the Viktor Ninov scandal, the particle physics arms race, and the new space race we're dealing with still today, so...
At first seeing the thumbnail, I thought that this will be about the classic physics vs. quantum physics feud, but boy this one was blazin'
If you want to delve deeper the author of Jurassic Park ( Michael Crichton’s estate) published a book back in 2013 I think. It’s called Dragon Teeth, and it delves into the Cope/Marsh rivalry and some western people alive and active at the time, including Wyatt Earp and Calamity Jane. It’s a really fun and interesting read, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
- Yes, Tesla and Edison are the greatest rivals in scientific history
- You know nothing, mate!
_"science is a personal enterprise conducted by individual-and at times deeply flawed-human beings."_
*Science In A Nutshell*
Scientific Research and Publishing in a nutshell. You'd be surprised by the craziness happening behind the scenes: the tampering of data, the slide of quality in peer review, the bribery, the threats against junior assistants, the publication of objectionable theses...
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 Not at all. That might have happened in the past but not in modern times, you need to prove any of that because scientists nowadays try to be logical and rational as possible if they're going to agree if something is true, makes sense, and it should be publicly announced to be accurate after all the researching since scientific publishment is take extremely seriously in institutes in order for people to take them seriously as they can't afford mistakes..
I love these opening quote, it's such a mood😂
Thanks for the video.
Some of the quarries Marsh supposedly had blown up where really just covered over, so the bones left behind are still there and hopefully we can get them.
I also think it was Marsh who would name every single bone he had a new species, so he ended up naming something like 14 kinds fo triceratops but really we only have two (and maybe three)
As the mentor of a friend of mine once said a great scientist is ideally likeable, gets quick results, and is really good at what he or she does, but two out of three is usually enough to be successful. I guess we should add deep pockets to the list, at least for this era of discovery.
Or at least having a silver tongue. A lot can be done if you can persuade powerful enough people
Your videos are very helpful
1:11 Cope unironically said he was just built different
This is really interesting.
Theory: The Gravel Wars in TF2 were inspired by the Bone Wars.
Love the old West music for this one. TED-ED knows how to spin a yarn
YES! As a palaeontologist, I love this
Wow. Before even clicking on the link I was thinking of this feud specifically. A speaker at a natural history museum told us the story and it always bothered me that they were destroying fossils as part of their feud. I was so surprised when I nailed it. One thing we were told is that Marsh named coprolites after Cope as an insult and when you didn't mention it I got curious and looked into if there is any truth to that story. Turns out that it's a pretty common myth but just a myth and absolutely not true. Probably why you guys didn't mention it :p.
*The most notorious scientific feud in history*
The chicken and the egg: _Are we a joke to you?_
The egg came first ‘cause evolution.
Imagined being so angry towards other person and your angry became future generation's blessing.
Awesome story, thank you. Would make for an awesome Paul Thomas Anderson movie
Cope be like "I've got a bigger one"
It’s not really an “accusation” of bribery when the person “accused” traded currency for a benefit (which also happened to come at the expense of another), is it?
It is an accusation, but it isn't a false one.
More like backstabbing and treachery.
‘Bone Wars?’ More like ‘Bone-Head Wars!’
Trippy that these two spent so much time feuding that they uncovered quite a few new fossils in the process.
Who would think that paleontologists could have such feuds
Apparently there was also a big argument as to how the dinosaurs died
Imagine if cope lost it in the Brain size competition too.
YOOO!!! Ohmhayghad I recognize this story!!! I read it in a old Dinosaur Book that my Mom bought for me when I was like 8 yrs old.. Damn what are the odds of bumping in this story again
AWESOME VID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine if this feud happend on Twitter, theres gonna be chaos between one side and the other, forcing people to choose sides.
We call that Minecraft Streamer Twitters
And nothing would end up being done in the process.
I’m still waiting for Ted himself to show up for the talk.
The paper at the beginning being called the Laramie Boomerang is a nice touch, as that is still the newspaper of Laramie, WY.
we need more Scientific competition so that we can get more ted ed videos like this
They're everywhere if you know where to look...
Ah yes, my favorite scientific fuse of petty revenge and dinosaur bones, I love paleontology 😍
This is the only kind of war this world needs more of.
This makes me wonder if there will ever be coverage of the feud between Bob Grubbs and Richard Schrock like the way we view these two.
this has been in, and ignored, in my feed for days. if I'd known it was geologically based I would have clicked straight away. I'm trying to train the algorithm... and I think it's working for bone-rocks (fossils) to stick around waiting for my clock. thanks.
Still Edison VS Tesla is the biggest science rivalry
Imagine what we could of gained if they worked together.
I'm not so sure - I think their competitive rivalry is what made them so driven
You have a good point but they also spent much of their time and money to hurting each other.
Dragon teeth is a nice book that have this rivalry as background
This would make a great film
The earliest fight that started with dinosaur figurine collecting
why would someone downvote this in the first minute
Cause their salty from losing the "war"
They probably saw someone with a red bow and a blue scarf and thought this was something political…
because they thought "bone wars" was something nsfw
I'm #12 and it's because i hate seeing 2 rich bastards wasting money on very petty things, including destroying invaluable samples just to sabotage another.
Btw Marsh did well to refuse the brain-size challenge, it was probably tiny.
I love Teded Videos
2:28 "Neither had" dreamt*.
The voice-over said dreamed. (Which is not a word)
Dreamed is also a word...... Dreamt nd dreamed both are the past form of Dream........ Dreamed is more common in the U.S
Rather than a rivalry, this is more like a 1st grader trying to pick on a 4th.
This would have been a fantastic chance to re-use the Demon of Reason.
I think it's the same voice actor too.
When the title is "most notorious scientific feud" you know immediately who it will be about.
True that. I doubted for a moment simply because I thought it would be too obvious.
I really like the voice of the narrator. How can I know if the next TED video I watch will have the same narrator?
Rivalry in scientific research can you reach ridiculous heights.
Imagine how it would've all unfolded if both had started out poor...
My fan casting: Paul Giamatti as Marsh, Kevin Kline as Cope.
Im surprised how im still into ted ed after 6 years!