My favorite part of track driving is that as you learn about one corner it inherently changes following corners. If you nail 1 turn perfectly for the first time you are going to get to the next corner faster so now your braking point changes at least. You spend a lot of time trying to construct all those points when learning a track, and hopefully you manage to be close to your ideal more often than not. Then there are the aliens that get 90% of a track "right" the first time and it's very quickly about tenths and hundredths of seconds of gain.
I think most F1 champions belong to the "alien" category somewhere, because getting 90% right on the first lap means you can refine your driving line, and other lines for overtaking and defending (like Max in Brazil 2016 on Rosberg), giving you a huge advantage on your opponents
To me these aliens are the ones who seemingly use all the same lines, but they are just able to brake later, corner faster, and get on the throttle faster. Usually it's down to smoothness and knowledge of weight transfer.
@@wexalian I think all F1 drivers are probably aliens in that regard. The top 1% of F1 drivers probably get to the high 90s in their first lap and are able to maintain much closer to the ideal for lap after lap after lap. Us mortals are always chasing.
The rally racing line is also often different. Since most corners in a rally stage are blind, it’s preferred to hit the apex later to improve visibility around the corner. Specially in events with no recce, like baja and raid
It also depends on the surface. On gravel rallies, you usually end up following the tire lines set by the cars driving the stage before you. That's because those other cars have already swept the gravel away from the road. So even though the previous tire lines might not be the "ideal" line, they offer more grip and less friction resistance. It's sort of like following the rubber braking lines in circuit racing. That's usually why rally drivers dislike being the first or even second driver on a fresh gravel stage.
Rally is also a balancing act of grip (you have very little) and power (because you have no grip, you can't use it) This is why almost every corner is taken sliding. (i.e. rotate the car, and stay on power.)
This is the exact method taught to police officers during pursuit training. The cars are generally bigger and less nimble but higher in HP which is better for straightaways. Vision around corners as well as safety entering and exiting the turn.
I would love to see Scott demonstrate ideal, geometric and karting lines in a car for a video, like driving a whole lap using each line style and comparing their times
Slow corners are where newbies lose the most time, because they're usually followed by straights and also the car spends a higher % of the lap time during the slow corner as a result of the slower speed.
Yes, it all comes down to ratio of seconds, not meters and how long you keep the advantage in speed. 10 seconds of corners with 5 seconds of straight? Focus on getting out of the corners ASAP. 5/10 ratio, focus on the exit.
Yep. I’ve seen people argue that someone has way more power so must be illegal because they’re pulling away down a straight. But, often it’s the difference in someone carrying a lot of speed in and being slow off compared to someone being slower in and faster off.
Ergo the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. A throwaway corner, not a little braking hump before it what matters is getting setting up for the scary (don't spin!) fun downhill out of it. Sets you up for the tight bend (don't spin!) onto the front straight (watch the marshals tower!)
Not all seconds are equal in racing when comparing them to where the second was gained or lost. Most cars are set up to maximize the speeds on the straights where per unit of time more distance is traveled. 0.1 second gained at 60 mph in a turn is not the same as 0 1 second gained at 200 mph. It seems like 0.1 seconds any where on the track would overall be the same as time is time regardless of speed but distance traveled means per lap not per any random .01 at all places isolation. That .0.1 seconds at speed helps far more than 0.1 s going thru a slow turn . Take off 0.1 seconds b4 a car next to u at a light and the other car might be a couple feet ahead of u at the nose or even a half carlength ....at a illegal speed on highway both cars wide open and let off accelerator and other car will shoot ahead instantly. Its the OVERALL lap time that counts not all parts of the track are equal. Normally a higher turn speed carries more speed exiting corner ulimately having a bigger gain of top speed at the end. But sometimes its better to go slower thru a turn to maximize the next more important section. Thats whats so cool about racing is the mathematical perfect arc may NOT be the best. So many other variables . If it were pure math the quickest way around the track would be the shortest distance and inside line thru the entire lap but in a real world situation .....that goes out the window. Esspecially if there are banked corners.
Depends on the car and how much DF it generates at each stage of the corner, and how good it handles those in low, medium and high speed corners. Back with the blown diffusers in the Vettel era, they had UNREAL downforce on throttle/corner exit. So they would prioritize getting on throttle sooner, so late apexing was more ideal.
in most cars having a good exit is more important then having as high as possible minimum speed because the ideal line isn’t that slow on minimum speed but if your not as skilled a more geometric line is quicker because most new people over slow the car to get the early rotation
This is also where the type of track comes into play. If there are a lot of mid- to low-speed corners, a car that performs well in them will be faster overall than a car that doesn't but that has more top end speed. For example, they've been showing a lot of driver comparisons during qualifying at F1, and you will see the top two drivers compared. One is typically faster in the corners and one is typically faster in the straights. Generally, is the one faster in the corners that is faster overall.
Yup which is why oversteer is preferred over understeer as oversteer helps with rotation of the car better allowing for better exit speed You rather V off a corner than U off For heavier cars like touring cars you would prefer understeer as that helps with apex speed momentum which is more important for a car type like that than a F1 car Only at front limited tracks oversteer might be an issue for F1 cars due to excessive front wheel slip angles causing excessive tire wear
Don't forget, the faster a F1 car goes through a corner, the more downforce it generates by the wings and therefor the more grip it has. So it really comes down to every single corner / combination.
When riding my dual-sport on gravel hairpins I noticed that I get quicker the more I "V" the corner. To an extend where I almost come to a complete stop at the apex, turn the bike and throttle out again. You can see pro riders do the same if there is no berm. It is the grip/power ratio at the extreme. My bike has close to 50hp, but I have grip for maybe 20 of those. Taking the geometric line it feels like ages you spend in the corner waiting for the bike to straighten up so you can open the throttle again.
That's what Scott explain in this video, but also you have to remember keeping your brake temperature at best not too cold or hot unless you wanna get lock up or go to gravel. 😅
A tight supercross track might have a couple sections where a rider would square off a corner as its sonetimes called, to guard the inside or make a block pass but normally a smooth arc with a smooth uniform throttled increasing slighty as to minimize rear wheel spin is ulitamately the fastest. In the 80s and 90s US motocross riders were squaring off coners more and tge European style was to " Road Race" the track and sweep the outside to carry monentum. We did beat the Euros more back then but it was more about the agressiveness of SX that we started, the shorter races 30 mins US vs 45 mins So the less fatiguing arc method worked as to save energy, however after time almost all winning riders today use the sweeping arc style over inside , pivot ,then hard acceleration because even tho its on dirt the lines of a pavement course work as well. Its all about putting the power to the ground and hooking up vs spinning your wheels
I've been doing this in racing games forever, my driving style has evolved to this. I set up for the final corner, might be a touch slower the start, but I make up for it on exit and straight away speed. Granted every track is different and requires it's own technique.
When my son introduced me to a driving game I blew his lap record by several percent on my first lap. He was impressed that I was drifting. A million miles on the road you learn something. These days he gets an Uber almost every day (long story,) he's 36 and I'm still his favorite driver.
Really well explained! Definitely one of the more important concepts in racing. Just one small thing. It seems like you swapped the two clips where you explained the line through the Villeneuve chicane at 9:26 and 9:34.
Its interesting watching a GT car and a formula car through a sequence of bends. Whereas a GT car with moderate downforce may have to really open up the entrance to the second corner, sometimes a formula car can just ride around the inside kerb of the second corner flat because the higher speed allows it to carry way more downforce.
Love this. Very succinct for the amount of ground it covers. The last bit about corner complexes and sacrificing one corner to set up the next is so often overlooked in videos like these. Years ago I watched a recording of racing school video in which the instructor said “the most important corner on any given track is the last one before the longest straight” and it changed the way I looked at racing lines forever.
I instantly went to the classic Gran Turismo track Deep Forest. While that initial hairpin is intimidating for beginners, the real monster is the very last corner. With most cars, the corner takes just the slightest tap of the brakes to take cleanly. Screw up the exit speed on the final lap, and congrats, you just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
I come from a short track speed skating background, granted its oval track racing. The tactics often cross lines from auto racing and short track speed skating. There are many different lines in an oval, depending on drafting off the skater ahead of you and how you can set up the pass.
Agreed, as a kart racer or racing fan overall, short track is one of the most exciting sports to watch. Mind boggling to see how ice can produce so many levels of grip, just judging from the skaters' behaviour during a race.
You just took me back a _very_ long time! Very interesting to see the comparisons between the types of racing. I did think that it would be much more fun in Abu Dhabi if they gave the drivers go karts instead of F1 cars 😂 As my rally driver dad taught me, "fast in, slow out; slow in, fast out." Whichever was most suitable for any given corner was the one to choose. Though he did spend about half of my learning taking me on rally "tracks" (mostly mountain and forestry given where we lived. He'd actually been one of the designers for our section of the Round Britain Rally back in the early 60s). This was in a 2lt Datsun Laurel, weighing over 1.5 tonnes with no power steering. I was 17, quite strong for a girl but I'm not particularly tall, so I had to rely on him (at 6ft) to be my co-driver and tell me when to turn on some sections because I couldn't see over the steering wheel 🤣 Not much fun on a single track mountain pass with 90° turns! (I had proper "pass my test" lessons; Dad did the "how to drive when you're up to your eyes in it" lessons. Over 41 years - if you include the learning, 41 next January otherwise - I have used Dad's teaching more often than I would want! Still got a clean licence, though 😉. Fortunately, I have used Mr Picton's far more!)
I actually learned something new here: the newbie line 😊 Very informative, this actually all sounds very logical but that's because it's very well explained 👍
Seriously your videos are gold. I’ve been wondering about this and guessed that the sims have geometric racing lines as ideal, and not dependent on the car which would seem incredibly complicated. Thanks!
I’m reminded of T3 at Zanvoort and T1 at Qatar. The first race back at Zandvoort drivers started out on the “racing line” but explored the track by expanding the corner into the banking which ended up being faster. Qatar was a bit different but at T1 we saw a lot more overtaking once drivers figured out how much grip they had using the wider line. Exciting stuff to watch unfold.
You should also generally expect the line to change over the course of a race because they will actually be depositing enough rubber on the track to affect the grip surface and optimal lines over multiple laps.
I Learned to Drive back in high schook. We didn't have driver education in school to cloud our minds with useless information. I studied (and my school grades reflected it) the textbook "The Technique Motor Racing" by Grand Prix driver Piero Taruffi. This is very complex book it was every bit as inclusive is any other school subject. It not only went into the correct driving lines, to things like coefficient efficient of friction between a car's tires and the road on a road surface. I learned a lot and it helped me later on. I won my first Race 3 hours after I got my driver's license. And I won a championship my first season, while racing a Stingray. Which is definitely not a beginner's car.
That was a good breakdown actually! The different levels and stages of racing line remind me of the progress made over the years with my own driving when it comes to skill, grip and performance! I've definitely hung out in all of the "camps" that you outlined haha
I’ve watched your entire instructional series but this video right here just took me to the next level. I can’t wait to get back on “sim” track!! I’ve been driving every car more or less to the geometric line wondering why I’m usually a so so racer, I tend to have my best luck in higher grip low power cars too just like you mention. I will try and push harder and see if I can figure out how to get some more competitive times.
So much incredible info packed into one short video! The newbie line is exactly what I used to do for many years. If you don't think too hard, it almost makes sense- you want to go fast, so why not turn into the corner as soon as you can? Only once I started watching motorsport and saw the ideal line did I realize I was doing it exactly backwards- too much speed into the corner, turning in too early, and exiting like a tortoise while running way wide. I think most road cars tend to be grip-limited, certainly in the case of any cars I've driven, and the V-shaped ideal line works well in that situation. Gentler on road tires and lets you get on the power sooner for a quick exit. I honestly didn't even know about the theoretical line until recently, with all the talk in F1 about V-shaped vs U-shaped driving preferences.
The way corners are knitted together is fundamental too - identifying where a theoretically suboptimal line through a corner maximises the potential for a subsequent corner or combination that is more important for constructing the fastest possible lap-time. We called them 'sacrifice corners' - there weren't a lot of them around, but those that exist are often key to unlocking a track's fast times.
Can you do a video on the hand/wrist positioning differences? Like how Nico Rosberg, Jean Alesi, and Jos Verstappen held the wheel higher up for less strain on the wrists and turning more with their arms?
I really enjoy your video content.. coz not only I can learn new thing. i can relate with what previously I did right but never understand why it was right at the 1st place.
Great info. And these things are hard to explain to someone who doesn’t spend time at the track. Glad my coach could explain the information about multiple corners or chicanes and how it isn’t always the fastest lap time by taking part of that section the fastest, but more on setting up the corners to maximize your exit momentum and speed. It’s also why looking at sector times alone, doesn’t tell the whole story
Great lesson! After years of track days, agree exit speed rules. When in doubt, late apex. Sergio has occasionally been guilty of early apexing too fast, and going off track.
Interesting video Scott. I'm planning to go sprinting next year (2024). It will mainly be at Curborough. I've got into the habit of trail braking through the first half of Fradley Hairpin based on the way Martin Donelley taught me to take the Rindt Hairpin at Hethel a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if that's the fastest way round in my Elise. I do need a lot more track time in the wet though, as all bar one of a handful of track days has been in the dry. I've taken on board your advice about the wet racing line.
It also takes more nerve to head straighter towards the wall and later on the brakes at the same time. If you make a mistake braking, you have no track left on the line that gives you the best exit.
Would love to also hear you talk about slip angle Also, it’s so easy to understand what turning does to momentum and speed if you just take a kart and push it in a straight line, then try and push it when you turn the wheels and see how big of a difference there it
i uses "newbee" technique in bahrein turns 9-10. i brake super late for turn9, then i'm very early into turn 10, but this way i brake only once (and continuously) for the 2 corners.
Well it's good to hear I've naturally learned a moderate amount of this, that being said I really do best in high mechanical grip, low power vehicles, but turns out in rallycross I'm doing pretty well. In 2/3 corner complexes I tend to be too aggressive early, but long complexes seem to move me into a flow and mellow it out a little and I can excel at them. Very frustrating how my racing overall is far for e racing enthusiast even ... But for the life of me I can't consciously teach myself where the time is on the track it is oddly frustrating.
Hi Scott, thanks for great content, and good luck with the inversion challenge. A quick one on driving styles, and the video you did about Max and Schumacher’s style evolution for the F1 cars of the 2020s. It was a great video, but I picked up a discrepancy with Peter Windsor’s analysis of Max’s driving style, which he describes as extreme ‘short corners’ with early braking, early turn in, and superior rotation. This seems to be the opposite of your assessment of Max/Schu, in which you talk about late braking and efficient rotation in order to ‘V’ the corner. These can’t both be right, can they?! Can you help explain?
Yeah grip is limited by more than just lateral force, finding the ideal line should mean solving not for widest radius but for minimum time through a corner, which must take into account acceleration and momentary velocity values. One is a geometric solution, the other is a solution found through calculus.. the latter being far more detailed because it can accurately describe a less idealized, more realistic model. In short, all ya gotta do is master everything there is to the continuity of splines! All racing lines are splines of a particular order of continuity--solving around that would allow for adjusting things parametrically from there to solve for any combination of conditions.
Did I miss the talk about slip angle being the biggest contributor to a different line? The fastest way around a corner is when the rearend is sliding just a hair giving you more steering angle. On dirt since it takes awhile for the vehicle to react, its about getting the vehicle properly rotated for the exit of the turn. You are right every vehicle has its own way of best handling it around a corner.
This explains why I am better in the mazda than I am most cars.. I always try to drive to the geometric line, as I coast alot.. I am fast, like 2:17 at spa in acc. but not rapid, and I think this has just taught me how.. corrr this video has taught me a serious amount... really thank you Scott.
First I like to thank you for your great explaination on why idel line differs a bit (more or less) from the theoretic geometrical line.. But for me the main reason is even a bit different.. The geometric line only can be the fastest solution if following applies: 1 centrifugal force (friction) from road, tyres and downforce is same everywhere in the corner. 2. My car is able to go faster / arrives faster at the beginning of the geometrical line than the biggest possible line allows 3. I am able to break to exacltly the maximum speed of the geometrical line speed at the beginning of the line.. Then it would be fastest, but as easy to guess all those factors do not apply to a real turn. The line driven, by riding a bit (more or less) over the beginning point, then breaking down to slower than that speed, beginning the turn a bit more tight towards the apex and the accellerating out on a even wider line is easier to get, more save to do no mistake and gives you the chance to adopt the speed and acceleration to the changing conditions of the track, your tires and even the aerodynamics (for example by car in front). Furthermore as all drivers do it like that, the grip niveau of that ideal line gets higher every round for a dry race, it must become faster than the geometric line.. I am totally with you on how motorpower (ability to accelerate) influences the exact form of the line driven. And last but not least, a tyre regularly loses ability to provide side guideance force aka centrifugal force, if it at the same time has to transfer acceleration or brwaking force.
I ride a motorcycle on the road, and using that ideal line would on a right hand bend potential put your head over the centreline which could have a rather poor outcome. Doing a cornering clinic at a local track we were encouraged to use a line more similar to the race driver, leave the turn in late, and the apex is much further around the bend than you initially think, and apply a modified version of this to the road to remain safe.
The geometric line was used in the Sterling Moss era, it was in his book. For the same reasons as when you're talking about go karts. The late apex line is also used (a lot) by motorbikes as they have abundant acceleration and a touch less mid corner speed compared to a well setup car. For a "on the road" line though, keep tight on exit and only use the wide part for extra safety, then you've got that margin to correct, the risk of a head on or running off is too great for motorbikes.
It boils down to the shape of ggv diagram. Tyres having maximum grip in combined loads (braking+lateral) favor aggressive braking lines ,tyres having maximum grip in non combined load favor a round corner
The most amazing and fun corner i witnessed was in the pass seat of a stock engine RX8 with Olins coilovers at turn 6 of Laguna Seca. The driver (ex racing driver) snapped the car into the corner while kicking the brake and then took the corner with the steering wheel straight all the way through! Using the slip of the rear tires to do the turning at over 90miles an hour. Nuts but so much fun. I asked why and he said the car does not have much power so i need to keep the wheels straight as much as possible round the track and the speed up in the corners. Sometimes the best way round a corner is when your smile is the biggest.
Cars turn with all four tires, not just the front. Given a traction circle for each contact patch, you cannot accelerate hard and turn hard at the same time. It's just that simple. To get on the gas you straighten the corner exit. For this you push the Apex later. Which means you must push the turn in later, so you might as well brake later. How much depends on how much power you need to use. F1 aero downforce does allow turning late in the corner exit after some acceleration in some turns. Depends on the speed.
I'm reminded of the video you did a while back about Fernando Alonso's time with Renault in the 2000s (I think) where he would just break the front wheels loose when entering a corner because the car had a wonky engine but massive rear grip, or some other set of weird conditions like that. I'll have to go review the video. 😂 The point is, sometimes even the Quirks and Features™ of an individual car can affect your race line.
There is one other type of line through a corner: distance cutting line. It is rare to use, but there are some instances, particularly in low power cars, where the line you take doesn't give an exit speed or a corner speed advantage. In these cases you can save time by drawing a line that travels less total distance. It can also be used sometimes when spending less time in the corner is better than more exit speed.
Scott, I really appreciate your videos!! In this one though I'm confused with the video for combo corners that starts at about 10 minutes in. In the first video you show the car staying on the left mostly exiting the first turn to the left allowing for getting on throttle nicely exiting the second turn to the right but your commentary says it's the "best line for the left overslowing for the right getting an awful exit". That commentary seems to fit the second video in this sequence. I think the video got edited incorrectly and isn't synced with your commentary.
Your thumbnail is a little cheeky there! But you did mention the thing that it made me think of immediately at the very end. I went to driving school at Barber Motorsports Park and my instructor referred to turn 14 there as "sacrifice corner" because taking the racing line there would put you in a non-ideal spot for turn 15 - which leads to the main straight. So we turned in tighter at 14 to get us best exit into 15 to the main straight. He also told us to not always "use the whole track" on wide corners in a race because "the guy behind you will divebomb you and you lose your spot. If you tuck in, you'll both be slow, but at least you keep your place."
Yep, corner exit speed, because it counts all the way through the next straight. A couple klicks faster in the middle of the corner won't gain you much time, but down a straight for several hundred meters it does.
Man the Citcuit of the Americas GP corners after the first hairpin is the most challenging complex of corners it gives me so much headache maximizing that stretch of race track in games
I experience this most visually in Real Racing 3 on mobile when doing time trials, it shows your previous best lap in a ghost, and the difference in lap times in progressively bolder green/red colors, so when you hammer down earlier than normal coming out of a corner and you suddenly notice a big burst of dark green in your lap time difference number out of the corner of your eye, you know that changing to an early apex made a huge difference for the long straight. It’s hard to translate into text but actually playing it, it’s all very natural.
Great explainer. I always wondered what the difference in distance traveled is between the perfect line, the ideal line, and a theoretical line that minimizes total distance over a lap (i.e., tight to the inside turn with gradual straights that point to the next inside of a turn). I suspect that the ideal line is actually the longest distance traveled but is negated by the speed difference.
Yes and no, it was explained in the video... Asuming, that your car has (extremely high capability on acceleration and decelleration force, the track and your tyres provide same grip level everywhere, you are able to break down to exactly the maximum driveable speed and you arrive at any given turn faster than the highest driveable speed, then the way with the longest ways through curves and the shortest straights would be the fastest, as in theory the way through a circle with twice the radius is twice as long, but driveable at 4 times the speed).. But as easy to guess this preconditions are seldom met.. On the other side, with a very slow car the really shortest way over the track would be the best one... In principle the line over a formula one track, which u would take with a bycicle, asuming u are not able to bike faster than 30 km/h.. The ideal solution is obviously something between those two extremes adopted to weather and the vehicle u drive
There is also the line you end up on in traffic, especially in the hobby racing segment since the cars vary so much. I call it the "don't get T-Boned by that guy who is burning up his breaks"-line.
After years of playing sim racing games I deff use a similar racing line. The textbook racing line through hairpins always felt off to me. I always figured you want to get on the throttle as quickly as possible coming out of a corner and that would make up for the slightly slower corner
About the wet line / dry line, does rubber accumulate on the track even if it's been wet or raining already? For example, would drivers start following the dry line even on a wet track and later switch to the wet line?
Hi good sir. Can you discuss those drivers in F1 that DO use constant-radius arcs? You see it a lot in Mercedes-era Bottas (funnily enough not in his Williams or his Sauber era imo), in Sainz, and Button. Those 1 wheel movement, hold the arc, before releasing the corner?
Short version is to minimize the time spent not accelerating. The sooner you’re pointed in a direction you can apply power (generally), the better. I love this video though. Excellent reduction to ‘simple’ terms while touching all of the finer points that make racing an art.
Sure wish I had access to this type of info years ago for Alfa track days back at Hallet, OK.! Had good instructors, but this type of diagramming and explanation is wonderful. =D=
Prior to the ad segment I was disappointed and thought I wouldn't learn any more than what was shown in the thumbnail. However, immediately after the ad roll I learned so much and gained incredible respect for professional racing drivers across the board. I had no idea even the supposed simplest idea of driving-line decision-making was so complex and crucial to good lap times!
Longterm F1 fan here, but this is something I hadn't really considered before, so apologies if this comes across noobish. Your passing comment about wet and dry lines gives me to wonder how often per season the surface of any given racetrack gets cleaned of ingrained rubber - and who sanctions it? FIA? \m/
I wonder this as well whenever I watch FP or qualis and the commentators talk about more rubber being laid down leading to better lap times... does it just wear off due to weather between events? Or does it get deliberately cleaned?
Great intro to lines. However you missed some points, for example: in non fig 8 tracks, there are always more of one handed bends to the other. So it probably but not always, makes sense to set up the suspension for the magority of corners and rely on driver skill for the sub optimun opposite corners. Relying on driver technique to balance the car will dictate the type of line to attempt. You didnt comment on opting STRATEAGICALLY to drive on the racing line or to abnormally dive for the lesser grip surface. This can be used to good effect.
One thing to add is that the ideal line shifts from the theoretical line more or less proportionally with the car's capability to accelerate. The easier it is to get back to speed, the more the ideal shifts. If the car cannot pick-up speed fast, the ideal is closer to theoretical as you need to conserve as much speed through the corner.
TL;DR: weight distribution and the fact that (racing) cars have better brakes than the engine so it makes sense to get on the throttle earlier which means you should try to rotate the car earlier in the corner.
i like your explanations @driver61 but i still haven't got my money back from established titles that you promoted. did you get your money for the sale?
How should I take corners in a GT3 car in assetto corsa competizione? When shall i use regular ideal line, when shall I late apex certain corners, etc?
Very cool to see this explained. It's something I've been intuitively aware of and executed when playing racing games for years but chalked it up bad technique on my part. It's nice to know that I was actually on the right track
I learned something one day at Shannonville when allowing an actual professional race driver to do a few laps in my car. I was feeling pretty cocky as my laps felt considerably faster than his. He was braking earlier and entering corners slower than I was. But the stopwatch doesn’t lie. I would go in on the ragged edge, and as such couldn’t get on the throttle nearly as early as him. He would be full throttle at the same point I was still braking. I learned that day, it’s not how fast you go into a corner it’s how fast you come out. That small increment in speed is carried all the way to the next corner, making for a faster lap.
Summed up in a PS game , you want to make the track as long as possible so you can go fast longer. And set it up so you are breaking before and accelerating out of the corners.
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My favorite part of track driving is that as you learn about one corner it inherently changes following corners. If you nail 1 turn perfectly for the first time you are going to get to the next corner faster so now your braking point changes at least. You spend a lot of time trying to construct all those points when learning a track, and hopefully you manage to be close to your ideal more often than not. Then there are the aliens that get 90% of a track "right" the first time and it's very quickly about tenths and hundredths of seconds of gain.
I think most F1 champions belong to the "alien" category somewhere, because getting 90% right on the first lap means you can refine your driving line, and other lines for overtaking and defending (like Max in Brazil 2016 on Rosberg), giving you a huge advantage on your opponents
It's always important to keep in mind two corners a time depending on the part of the track, it helps me when learning specific tracks
To me these aliens are the ones who seemingly use all the same lines, but they are just able to brake later, corner faster, and get on the throttle faster. Usually it's down to smoothness and knowledge of weight transfer.
I can summarise your entire explanation with one word, Speed.
@@wexalian I think all F1 drivers are probably aliens in that regard. The top 1% of F1 drivers probably get to the high 90s in their first lap and are able to maintain much closer to the ideal for lap after lap after lap.
Us mortals are always chasing.
The rally racing line is also often different. Since most corners in a rally stage are blind, it’s preferred to hit the apex later to improve visibility around the corner. Specially in events with no recce, like baja and raid
it's also so much less ambiguous haha, if you can't see the road then you're too early
It also depends on the surface.
On gravel rallies, you usually end up following the tire lines set by the cars driving the stage before you. That's because those other cars have already swept the gravel away from the road. So even though the previous tire lines might not be the "ideal" line, they offer more grip and less friction resistance. It's sort of like following the rubber braking lines in circuit racing.
That's usually why rally drivers dislike being the first or even second driver on a fresh gravel stage.
Rally is also a balancing act of grip (you have very little) and power (because you have no grip, you can't use it) This is why almost every corner is taken sliding. (i.e. rotate the car, and stay on power.)
@@jfbeam Yet it is still mostly about controlling the balance of the car.
This is the exact method taught to police officers during pursuit training. The cars are generally bigger and less nimble but higher in HP which is better for straightaways. Vision around corners as well as safety entering and exiting the turn.
I would love to see Scott demonstrate ideal, geometric and karting lines in a car for a video, like driving a whole lap using each line style and comparing their times
Im sure he will entertain the idea if you can secure a track for a day to do the shooting 😂
Not sure about geometry because circumstances are very complex
@@user-jh6vt8vx4v it's not like he has to rent out a track, sim racing exists
Go faster longer ,Fangio .
Slow corners are where newbies lose the most time, because they're usually followed by straights and also the car spends a higher % of the lap time during the slow corner as a result of the slower speed.
Yes, it all comes down to ratio of seconds, not meters and how long you keep the advantage in speed. 10 seconds of corners with 5 seconds of straight? Focus on getting out of the corners ASAP. 5/10 ratio, focus on the exit.
Yep. I’ve seen people argue that someone has way more power so must be illegal because they’re pulling away down a straight. But, often it’s the difference in someone carrying a lot of speed in and being slow off compared to someone being slower in and faster off.
Ergo the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. A throwaway corner, not a little braking hump before it what matters is getting setting up for the scary (don't spin!) fun downhill out of it. Sets you up for the tight bend (don't spin!) onto the front straight (watch the marshals tower!)
Not all seconds are equal in racing when comparing them to where the second was gained or lost. Most cars are set up to maximize the speeds on the straights where per unit of time more distance is traveled. 0.1 second gained at 60 mph in a turn is not the same as 0 1 second gained at 200 mph. It seems like 0.1 seconds any where on the track would overall be the same as time is time regardless of speed but distance traveled means per lap not per any random .01 at all places isolation. That .0.1 seconds at speed helps far more than 0.1 s going thru a slow turn . Take off 0.1 seconds b4 a car next to u at a light and the other car might be a couple feet ahead of u at the nose or even a half carlength ....at a illegal speed on highway both cars wide open and let off accelerator and other car will shoot ahead instantly. Its the OVERALL lap time that counts not all parts of the track are equal. Normally a higher turn speed carries more speed exiting corner ulimately having a bigger gain of top speed at the end. But sometimes its better to go slower thru a turn to maximize the next more important section. Thats whats so cool about racing is the mathematical perfect arc may NOT be the best. So many other variables . If it were pure math the quickest way around the track would be the shortest distance and inside line thru the entire lap but in a real world situation .....that goes out the window. Esspecially if there are banked corners.
@@waynegarfield6607good example are those videos of Jordan cox with his civic against v8s in australia.
My guess is also F1 cars have so much power, that time on wide open throttle is more important than mid corner speeds.
Depends on the car and how much DF it generates at each stage of the corner, and how good it handles those in low, medium and high speed corners.
Back with the blown diffusers in the Vettel era, they had UNREAL downforce on throttle/corner exit. So they would prioritize getting on throttle sooner, so late apexing was more ideal.
in most cars having a good exit is more important then having as high as possible minimum speed because the ideal line isn’t that slow on minimum speed but if your not as skilled a more geometric line is quicker because most new people over slow the car to get the early rotation
This is also where the type of track comes into play. If there are a lot of mid- to low-speed corners, a car that performs well in them will be faster overall than a car that doesn't but that has more top end speed.
For example, they've been showing a lot of driver comparisons during qualifying at F1, and you will see the top two drivers compared. One is typically faster in the corners and one is typically faster in the straights. Generally, is the one faster in the corners that is faster overall.
Yup which is why oversteer is preferred over understeer as oversteer helps with rotation of the car better allowing for better exit speed
You rather V off a corner than U off
For heavier cars like touring cars you would prefer understeer as that helps with apex speed momentum which is more important for a car type like that than a F1 car
Only at front limited tracks oversteer might be an issue for F1 cars due to excessive front wheel slip angles causing excessive tire wear
Don't forget, the faster a F1 car goes through a corner, the more downforce it generates by the wings and therefor the more grip it has. So it really comes down to every single corner / combination.
When riding my dual-sport on gravel hairpins I noticed that I get quicker the more I "V" the corner.
To an extend where I almost come to a complete stop at the apex, turn the bike and throttle out again.
You can see pro riders do the same if there is no berm.
It is the grip/power ratio at the extreme. My bike has close to 50hp, but I have grip for maybe 20 of those.
Taking the geometric line it feels like ages you spend in the corner waiting for the bike to straighten up so you can open the throttle again.
That's what Scott explain in this video, but also you have to remember keeping your brake temperature at best not too cold or hot unless you wanna get lock up or go to gravel. 😅
A tight supercross track might have a couple sections where a rider would square off a corner as its sonetimes called, to guard the inside or make a block pass but normally a smooth arc with a smooth uniform throttled increasing slighty as to minimize rear wheel spin is ulitamately the fastest. In the 80s and 90s US motocross riders were squaring off coners more and tge European style was to " Road Race" the track and sweep the outside to carry monentum. We did beat the Euros more back then but it was more about the agressiveness of SX that we started, the shorter races 30 mins US vs 45 mins So the less fatiguing arc method worked as to save energy, however after time almost all winning riders today use the sweeping arc style over inside , pivot ,then hard acceleration because even tho its on dirt the lines of a pavement course work as well. Its all about putting the power to the ground and hooking up vs spinning your wheels
I've been doing this in racing games forever, my driving style has evolved to this. I set up for the final corner, might be a touch slower the start, but I make up for it on exit and straight away speed. Granted every track is different and requires it's own technique.
When my son introduced me to a driving game I blew his lap record by several percent on my first lap. He was impressed that I was drifting. A million miles on the road you learn something. These days he gets an Uber almost every day (long story,) he's 36 and I'm still his favorite driver.
Really well explained! Definitely one of the more important concepts in racing.
Just one small thing. It seems like you swapped the two clips where you explained the line through the Villeneuve chicane at 9:26 and 9:34.
Exactly my thoughts :D
Its interesting watching a GT car and a formula car through a sequence of bends.
Whereas a GT car with moderate downforce may have to really open up the entrance to the second corner, sometimes a formula car can just ride around the inside kerb of the second corner flat because the higher speed allows it to carry way more downforce.
Love this. Very succinct for the amount of ground it covers. The last bit about corner complexes and sacrificing one corner to set up the next is so often overlooked in videos like these. Years ago I watched a recording of racing school video in which the instructor said “the most important corner on any given track is the last one before the longest straight” and it changed the way I looked at racing lines forever.
I instantly went to the classic Gran Turismo track Deep Forest. While that initial hairpin is intimidating for beginners, the real monster is the very last corner. With most cars, the corner takes just the slightest tap of the brakes to take cleanly. Screw up the exit speed on the final lap, and congrats, you just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
I come from a short track speed skating background, granted its oval track racing. The tactics often cross lines from auto racing and short track speed skating.
There are many different lines in an oval, depending on drafting off the skater ahead of you and how you can set up the pass.
Agreed, as a kart racer or racing fan overall, short track is one of the most exciting sports to watch. Mind boggling to see how ice can produce so many levels of grip, just judging from the skaters' behaviour during a race.
You just took me back a _very_ long time! Very interesting to see the comparisons between the types of racing. I did think that it would be much more fun in Abu Dhabi if they gave the drivers go karts instead of F1 cars 😂
As my rally driver dad taught me, "fast in, slow out; slow in, fast out." Whichever was most suitable for any given corner was the one to choose. Though he did spend about half of my learning taking me on rally "tracks" (mostly mountain and forestry given where we lived. He'd actually been one of the designers for our section of the Round Britain Rally back in the early 60s). This was in a 2lt Datsun Laurel, weighing over 1.5 tonnes with no power steering. I was 17, quite strong for a girl but I'm not particularly tall, so I had to rely on him (at 6ft) to be my co-driver and tell me when to turn on some sections because I couldn't see over the steering wheel 🤣 Not much fun on a single track mountain pass with 90° turns!
(I had proper "pass my test" lessons; Dad did the "how to drive when you're up to your eyes in it" lessons. Over 41 years - if you include the learning, 41 next January otherwise - I have used Dad's teaching more often than I would want! Still got a clean licence, though 😉. Fortunately, I have used Mr Picton's far more!)
I actually learned something new here: the newbie line 😊
Very informative, this actually all sounds very logical but that's because it's very well explained 👍
Seriously your videos are gold. I’ve been wondering about this and guessed that the sims have geometric racing lines as ideal, and not dependent on the car which would seem incredibly complicated. Thanks!
I’m reminded of T3 at Zanvoort and T1 at Qatar. The first race back at Zandvoort drivers started out on the “racing line” but explored the track by expanding the corner into the banking which ended up being faster. Qatar was a bit different but at T1 we saw a lot more overtaking once drivers figured out how much grip they had using the wider line. Exciting stuff to watch unfold.
Mugello T1 was similar to Qatar T1, many overtakes on the outside with camber. It combines the traits of both Zandvoort and Qatar
Also, the wider line the faster
You should also generally expect the line to change over the course of a race because they will actually be depositing enough rubber on the track to affect the grip surface and optimal lines over multiple laps.
Yeah Alonso was the first to discover the faster line at T3 Zandvoort and all the other drivers copied him
@@hamza-chaudhry Alonso always had the wider lines everywhere
You guys really need to install content manager, shaders patch and SOL for your Assetto Corsa
Used to play lots of Gran Tourismo back in the day. Getting a smooth racing line was always so satisfying.
Great race coaching as always, but man this video is a masterclass in editing. Well done!
I Learned to Drive back in high schook. We didn't have driver education in school to cloud our minds with useless information. I studied (and my school grades reflected it) the textbook "The Technique Motor Racing" by Grand Prix driver Piero Taruffi. This is very complex book it was every bit as inclusive is any other school subject. It not only went into the correct driving lines, to things like coefficient efficient of friction between a car's tires and the road on a road surface. I learned a lot and it helped me later on. I won my first Race 3 hours after I got my driver's license. And I won a championship my first season, while racing a Stingray. Which is definitely not a beginner's car.
That was a good breakdown actually! The different levels and stages of racing line remind me of the progress made over the years with my own driving when it comes to skill, grip and performance! I've definitely hung out in all of the "camps" that you outlined haha
I’ve watched your entire instructional series but this video right here just took me to the next level. I can’t wait to get back on “sim” track!! I’ve been driving every car more or less to the geometric line wondering why I’m usually a so so racer, I tend to have my best luck in higher grip low power cars too just like you mention. I will try and push harder and see if I can figure out how to get some more competitive times.
So much incredible info packed into one short video! The newbie line is exactly what I used to do for many years. If you don't think too hard, it almost makes sense- you want to go fast, so why not turn into the corner as soon as you can? Only once I started watching motorsport and saw the ideal line did I realize I was doing it exactly backwards- too much speed into the corner, turning in too early, and exiting like a tortoise while running way wide.
I think most road cars tend to be grip-limited, certainly in the case of any cars I've driven, and the V-shaped ideal line works well in that situation. Gentler on road tires and lets you get on the power sooner for a quick exit. I honestly didn't even know about the theoretical line until recently, with all the talk in F1 about V-shaped vs U-shaped driving preferences.
The way corners are knitted together is fundamental too - identifying where a theoretically suboptimal line through a corner maximises the potential for a subsequent corner or combination that is more important for constructing the fastest possible lap-time. We called them 'sacrifice corners' - there weren't a lot of them around, but those that exist are often key to unlocking a track's fast times.
Can you do a video on the hand/wrist positioning differences? Like how Nico Rosberg, Jean Alesi, and Jos Verstappen held the wheel higher up for less strain on the wrists and turning more with their arms?
Awesome, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences..
I really enjoy your video content.. coz not only I can learn new thing. i can relate with what previously I did right but never understand why it was right at the 1st place.
Downforce and lift make this even more fun to figure out as the handling dynamics can change significantly with speed.
One of your best videos. Very well explained.
Great info. And these things are hard to explain to someone who doesn’t spend time at the track. Glad my coach could explain the information about multiple corners or chicanes and how it isn’t always the fastest lap time by taking part of that section the fastest, but more on setting up the corners to maximize your exit momentum and speed. It’s also why looking at sector times alone, doesn’t tell the whole story
Great lesson! After years of track days, agree exit speed rules. When in doubt, late apex. Sergio has occasionally been guilty of early apexing too fast, and going off track.
Great video. Always found it interesting that F1 drivers often use different lines
Interesting video Scott. I'm planning to go sprinting next year (2024). It will mainly be at Curborough. I've got into the habit of trail braking through the first half of Fradley Hairpin based on the way Martin Donelley taught me to take the Rindt Hairpin at Hethel a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if that's the fastest way round in my Elise.
I do need a lot more track time in the wet though, as all bar one of a handful of track days has been in the dry. I've taken on board your advice about the wet racing line.
It also takes more nerve to head straighter towards the wall and later on the brakes at the same time. If you make a mistake braking, you have no track left on the line that gives you the best exit.
Would love to also hear you talk about slip angle
Also, it’s so easy to understand what turning does to momentum and speed if you just take a kart and push it in a straight line, then try and push it when you turn the wheels and see how big of a difference there it
i uses "newbee" technique in bahrein turns 9-10. i brake super late for turn9, then i'm very early into turn 10, but this way i brake only once (and continuously) for the 2 corners.
At Silvertone in 1992 we watched a feeder serireis race for Rover's They have the same racing line in wet or dry due to high traction and grip.
Great explanation 👍
Well it's good to hear I've naturally learned a moderate amount of this, that being said I really do best in high mechanical grip, low power vehicles, but turns out in rallycross I'm doing pretty well. In 2/3 corner complexes I tend to be too aggressive early, but long complexes seem to move me into a flow and mellow it out a little and I can excel at them. Very frustrating how my racing overall is far for e racing enthusiast even ... But for the life of me I can't consciously teach myself where the time is on the track it is oddly frustrating.
Hi Scott, thanks for great content, and good luck with the inversion challenge.
A quick one on driving styles, and the video you did about Max and Schumacher’s style evolution for the F1 cars of the 2020s.
It was a great video, but I picked up a discrepancy with Peter Windsor’s analysis of Max’s driving style, which he describes as extreme ‘short corners’ with early braking, early turn in, and superior rotation. This seems to be the opposite of your assessment of Max/Schu, in which you talk about late braking and efficient rotation in order to ‘V’ the corner.
These can’t both be right, can they?! Can you help explain?
Yeah grip is limited by more than just lateral force, finding the ideal line should mean solving not for widest radius but for minimum time through a corner, which must take into account acceleration and momentary velocity values. One is a geometric solution, the other is a solution found through calculus.. the latter being far more detailed because it can accurately describe a less idealized, more realistic model.
In short, all ya gotta do is master everything there is to the continuity of splines! All racing lines are splines of a particular order of continuity--solving around that would allow for adjusting things parametrically from there to solve for any combination of conditions.
Did I miss the talk about slip angle being the biggest contributor to a different line?
The fastest way around a corner is when the rearend is sliding just a hair giving you more steering angle.
On dirt since it takes awhile for the vehicle to react, its about getting the vehicle properly rotated for the exit of the turn.
You are right every vehicle has its own way of best handling it around a corner.
i cant articulate what it feels like but
you did.
thank you sir 👏
Great video. Very close to in depth.
This explains why I am better in the mazda than I am most cars.. I always try to drive to the geometric line, as I coast alot.. I am fast, like 2:17 at spa in acc. but not rapid, and I think this has just taught me how.. corrr this video has taught me a serious amount... really thank you Scott.
First I like to thank you for your great explaination on why idel line differs a bit (more or less) from the theoretic geometrical line.. But for me the main reason is even a bit different.. The geometric line only can be the fastest solution if following applies:
1 centrifugal force (friction) from road, tyres and downforce is same everywhere in the corner.
2. My car is able to go faster / arrives faster at the beginning of the geometrical line than the biggest possible line allows
3. I am able to break to exacltly the maximum speed of the geometrical line speed at the beginning of the line..
Then it would be fastest, but as easy to guess all those factors do not apply to a real turn.
The line driven, by riding a bit (more or less) over the beginning point, then breaking down to slower than that speed, beginning the turn a bit more tight towards the apex and the accellerating out on a even wider line is easier to get, more save to do no mistake and gives you the chance to adopt the speed and acceleration to the changing conditions of the track, your tires and even the aerodynamics (for example by car in front).
Furthermore as all drivers do it like that, the grip niveau of that ideal line gets higher every round for a dry race, it must become faster than the geometric line..
I am totally with you on how motorpower (ability to accelerate) influences the exact form of the line driven.
And last but not least, a tyre regularly loses ability to provide side guideance force aka centrifugal force, if it at the same time has to transfer acceleration or brwaking force.
Great video did you ever race in Toronto Canada. If so I might have seen you
9:26 I think the two clips at Imola are swapped by mistake
Yeah that caught me off guard too 😂
This is brilliant and confirms my street racing days nearly a decade ago.
Even more pronounced in MotoGP, especially back in the 2 stroke days. Still really fun to watch Formula Vee or Spec Miata carrying speed.
I ride a motorcycle on the road, and using that ideal line would on a right hand bend potential put your head over the centreline which could have a rather poor outcome. Doing a cornering clinic at a local track we were encouraged to use a line more similar to the race driver, leave the turn in late, and the apex is much further around the bend than you initially think, and apply a modified version of this to the road to remain safe.
great video!! thank you
The geometric line was used in the Sterling Moss era, it was in his book. For the same reasons as when you're talking about go karts.
The late apex line is also used (a lot) by motorbikes as they have abundant acceleration and a touch less mid corner speed compared to a well setup car. For a "on the road" line though, keep tight on exit and only use the wide part for extra safety, then you've got that margin to correct, the risk of a head on or running off is too great for motorbikes.
It boils down to the shape of ggv diagram. Tyres having maximum grip in combined loads (braking+lateral) favor aggressive braking lines ,tyres having maximum grip in non combined load favor a round corner
The most amazing and fun corner i witnessed was in the pass seat of a stock engine RX8 with Olins coilovers at turn 6 of Laguna Seca. The driver (ex racing driver) snapped the car into the corner while kicking the brake and then took the corner with the steering wheel straight all the way through! Using the slip of the rear tires to do the turning at over 90miles an hour. Nuts but so much fun.
I asked why and he said the car does not have much power so i need to keep the wheels straight as much as possible round the track and the speed up in the corners.
Sometimes the best way round a corner is when your smile is the biggest.
Great tips. Im going to try this in the highway with my Honda civic hybrid. Wish me luck.
Cars turn with all four tires, not just the front. Given a traction circle for each contact patch, you cannot accelerate hard and turn hard at the same time. It's just that simple.
To get on the gas you straighten the corner exit. For this you push the Apex later. Which means you must push the turn in later, so you might as well brake later. How much depends on how much power you need to use.
F1 aero downforce does allow turning late in the corner exit after some acceleration in some turns. Depends on the speed.
I'm reminded of the video you did a while back about Fernando Alonso's time with Renault in the 2000s (I think) where he would just break the front wheels loose when entering a corner because the car had a wonky engine but massive rear grip, or some other set of weird conditions like that. I'll have to go review the video. 😂
The point is, sometimes even the Quirks and Features™ of an individual car can affect your race line.
There is one other type of line through a corner: distance cutting line. It is rare to use, but there are some instances, particularly in low power cars, where the line you take doesn't give an exit speed or a corner speed advantage. In these cases you can save time by drawing a line that travels less total distance. It can also be used sometimes when spending less time in the corner is better than more exit speed.
I've always thought about taking the geometric lines, but definitely worth keeping in mind about ideal lines 🤔
Scott, I really appreciate your videos!! In this one though I'm confused with the video for combo corners that starts at about 10 minutes in. In the first video you show the car staying on the left mostly exiting the first turn to the left allowing for getting on throttle nicely exiting the second turn to the right but your commentary says it's the "best line for the left overslowing for the right getting an awful exit". That commentary seems to fit the second video in this sequence. I think the video got edited incorrectly and isn't synced with your commentary.
Your thumbnail is a little cheeky there!
But you did mention the thing that it made me think of immediately at the very end.
I went to driving school at Barber Motorsports Park and my instructor referred to turn 14 there as "sacrifice corner" because taking the racing line there would put you in a non-ideal spot for turn 15 - which leads to the main straight. So we turned in tighter at 14 to get us best exit into 15 to the main straight.
He also told us to not always "use the whole track" on wide corners in a race because "the guy behind you will divebomb you and you lose your spot. If you tuck in, you'll both be slow, but at least you keep your place."
Yep, corner exit speed, because it counts all the way through the next straight. A couple klicks faster in the middle of the corner won't gain you much time, but down a straight for several hundred meters it does.
Thanks for the upload Scott! Love the racing line videos!
Man the Citcuit of the Americas GP corners after the first hairpin is the most challenging complex of corners it gives me so much headache maximizing that stretch of race track in games
Ok, now I have more confidence in my driving techniques on Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon games. Thank you for explaining all of this!
Great episode
A slightly shallow entry is a thing too. IIRC montoya talked about this. Also Schumacher on the Bennetton. Dive in, flick it, and out.
This is a very interesting video!😁
Wow! This is really interesting!😮
I experience this most visually in Real Racing 3 on mobile when doing time trials, it shows your previous best lap in a ghost, and the difference in lap times in progressively bolder green/red colors, so when you hammer down earlier than normal coming out of a corner and you suddenly notice a big burst of dark green in your lap time difference number out of the corner of your eye, you know that changing to an early apex made a huge difference for the long straight. It’s hard to translate into text but actually playing it, it’s all very natural.
Great explainer. I always wondered what the difference in distance traveled is between the perfect line, the ideal line, and a theoretical line that minimizes total distance over a lap (i.e., tight to the inside turn with gradual straights that point to the next inside of a turn). I suspect that the ideal line is actually the longest distance traveled but is negated by the speed difference.
Yes and no, it was explained in the video... Asuming, that your car has (extremely high capability on acceleration and decelleration force, the track and your tyres provide same grip level everywhere, you are able to break down to exactly the maximum driveable speed and you arrive at any given turn faster than the highest driveable speed, then the way with the longest ways through curves and the shortest straights would be the fastest, as in theory the way through a circle with twice the radius is twice as long, but driveable at 4 times the speed).. But as easy to guess this preconditions are seldom met..
On the other side, with a very slow car the really shortest way over the track would be the best one... In principle the line over a formula one track, which u would take with a bycicle, asuming u are not able to bike faster than 30 km/h..
The ideal solution is obviously something between those two extremes adopted to weather and the vehicle u drive
listen to this dude! i have been for a while now and it's honestly why i'm getting into the top splits.
There is also the line you end up on in traffic, especially in the hobby racing segment since the cars vary so much. I call it the "don't get T-Boned by that guy who is burning up his breaks"-line.
After years of playing sim racing games I deff use a similar racing line. The textbook racing line through hairpins always felt off to me. I always figured you want to get on the throttle as quickly as possible coming out of a corner and that would make up for the slightly slower corner
Holy shit never thought about corners in this much detail. Thanks
can you show us side by side racing line and explanation with f1 vs lmp1 vs gt3 cars?
About the wet line / dry line, does rubber accumulate on the track even if it's been wet or raining already?
For example, would drivers start following the dry line even on a wet track and later switch to the wet line?
Front loaded suspension is harder to control and stop regardless of type of vehicle. Hence stopping and accelerating best done in straight line.
Hi good sir. Can you discuss those drivers in F1 that DO use constant-radius arcs? You see it a lot in Mercedes-era Bottas (funnily enough not in his Williams or his Sauber era imo), in Sainz, and Button. Those 1 wheel movement, hold the arc, before releasing the corner?
Short version is to minimize the time spent not accelerating. The sooner you’re pointed in a direction you can apply power (generally), the better.
I love this video though. Excellent reduction to ‘simple’ terms while touching all of the finer points that make racing an art.
Sure wish I had access to this type of info years ago for Alfa track days back at Hallet, OK.! Had good instructors, but this type of diagramming and explanation is wonderful. =D=
Prior to the ad segment I was disappointed and thought I wouldn't learn any more than what was shown in the thumbnail. However, immediately after the ad roll I learned so much and gained incredible respect for professional racing drivers across the board. I had no idea even the supposed simplest idea of driving-line decision-making was so complex and crucial to good lap times!
Very inspiring 👍
Awesome video
The hairpin at suzuka, looks like it's better to miss the apex than start braking before straightening the wheel on the slight right hander.
Longterm F1 fan here, but this is something I hadn't really considered before, so apologies if this comes across noobish. Your passing comment about wet and dry lines gives me to wonder how often per season the surface of any given racetrack gets cleaned of ingrained rubber - and who sanctions it? FIA? \m/
I wonder this as well whenever I watch FP or qualis and the commentators talk about more rubber being laid down leading to better lap times... does it just wear off due to weather between events? Or does it get deliberately cleaned?
Great intro to lines.
However you missed some points, for example: in non fig 8 tracks, there are always more of one handed bends to the other.
So it probably but not always, makes sense to set up the suspension for the magority of corners and rely on driver skill for the sub optimun opposite corners.
Relying on driver technique to balance the car will dictate the type of line to attempt.
You didnt comment on opting STRATEAGICALLY to drive on the racing line or to abnormally dive for the lesser grip surface.
This can be used to good effect.
One thing to add is that the ideal line shifts from the theoretical line more or less proportionally with the car's capability to accelerate. The easier it is to get back to speed, the more the ideal shifts. If the car cannot pick-up speed fast, the ideal is closer to theoretical as you need to conserve as much speed through the corner.
We saw a change of track surface at Singapore gp this year! F1 drivers complained of the change of grip.
lol immediately noticed Van Gisbergen's burnout, that was one monster Bathurst 1000
TL;DR: weight distribution and the fact that (racing) cars have better brakes than the engine so it makes sense to get on the throttle earlier which means you should try to rotate the car earlier in the corner.
Is this a reupload or an updated version video? I remembered seeing a video on this topic on this channel before...
i like your explanations @driver61 but i still haven't got my money back from established titles that you promoted. did you get your money for the sale?
Ground effects makes a Huge difference and skews the geometric ideal😎
How should I take corners in a GT3 car in assetto corsa competizione? When shall i use regular ideal line, when shall I late apex certain corners, etc?
Very cool to see this explained. It's something I've been intuitively aware of and executed when playing racing games for years but chalked it up bad technique on my part. It's nice to know that I was actually on the right track
Right track- pun intended, I hope!
I remembered on PlayStation 1 on Toca that straight brake line that the longer was the better.
I learned something one day at Shannonville when allowing an actual professional race driver to do a few laps in my car. I was feeling pretty cocky as my laps felt considerably faster than his. He was braking earlier and entering corners slower than I was. But the stopwatch doesn’t lie. I would go in on the ragged edge, and as such couldn’t get on the throttle nearly as early as him. He would be full throttle at the same point I was still braking. I learned that day, it’s not how fast you go into a corner it’s how fast you come out. That small increment in speed is carried all the way to the next corner, making for a faster lap.
Summed up in a PS game , you want to make the track as long as possible so you can go fast longer. And set it up so you are breaking before and accelerating out of the corners.
Emphasize on corner exit acceleration for major straight line on the track