Why You're Bored and Lonely: The Death of Third Places
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2024
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The internet gives an illusion of an endless supply of social interaction. Until you come to realize it’s all an illusion and you have no one in your life who truly cares..
💯
Excatly, it mostly false.
Time for young people to wake up.
What about teledoc?
Why do you think no one in your life truly cares?
"3rd Place" would be a great name for a 3rd place business bar coffee shop reading room etc.
I am 54 years old, and I don't know what I would have done without third place when I was 15, 16, 17 years of age. They were our social bread and butter.
For me it was the bowling alley.
Coffee places used to be more welcoming, quiet places with soft music where you wanted to hang out. Now, Starbucks is a loud noisy place I want to flee!
Go to Panera. They have soft music, and the coffee's better.
Luckily in my town there are a few awesome, locally owned coffee shops where people hang out.
@@mikeappleget482 what's your town?
StarBucks is just loud obnoxious multi-national coffee chain, what do you expect?! If you dont go to independently owned small business cafe?
My 3rd place has been the local Starbucks. id always have someone to talk to, but the last months its been a ghost town.
As a former young boy, I can say that we definitely need to get back to the point where it's totally normal for young boys to ride bikes with their friends, run around in the woods, put pennies on train tracks, pretend to be ninjas, shoot BB guns and have sleepovers where they build forts in the living room. The fact that this is no longer normal kid activity is extremely depressing.
Kids of today have no idea of the cool things they missing out on. I recall my buddies and I jumping on our bikes & cycling down to the beach, whee we'd spend all day, getting home just in time for supper during holidays. Our parents weren't even concerned that they had no way of contacting any of us; pre-mobile phone days were awesome👍
You just described my upbringing. We also built forts out in the woods. Treehouses, etc. Today kids spend their free time watching TV, playing video games, and being online texting. Looking at some social media I see they have very little or nothing to talk about. It's because they don't do anything else but use social media. So the focus is the social media itself rather than talking about other experiences.
I feel sorry for today's kids. It's interesting that parents now are supposed to arrange so called, 'play dates' for the kids and transport them.
Growing up my mother just told us to go outside and find and make friends, and be home before supper, and that's what we did.
@@fredflintstone8048 Totally. My friends and I played some video games and watched movies too, but we spent most of our time out of the house doing outside stuff. Certainly not all of life revolved around modern tech.
Sometimes I wonder if humanity would be better off if the Internet had never gone along. Or maybe instead, if the Internet was invented but just kind kind of got stuck where it was in 1999, before it took over the whole world.
Can’t do that anymore. Too many dangerous places, too many sicko child predators, too many bullies, too many bad areas, too much crime, too many gangs to get involved with, too much gang violence and shootings.
Still normal on the west coast
Record stores are one of the things I miss the most.
Same
True. The internet really killed a lot of things like record stores, book stores, and all sorts of other retail. To the point where younger people today seem genuinely unaware that a city is supposed to be something more than just a concentration of restaurants and coffee shops.
There’s still a good handful in Toronto. Play de Record, Sonic Boom, Cosmos and Cops are the first to come to mind.
And, true story this, that's how the Pet Shop Boys formed after Neil, and the "other one" met in a record store, got chatting and realised they had the same tastes in music.
Remember the good old days when record stores would let you listen to some of the record BEFORE you bought it? Good thing, good days!
I tell my high schoolers the same things about what smart phones and social media are doing to this generation. When bored- and they are ALWAYS bored, they aren’t becoming artists, or writers, or musicians. They are forfeiting their creative impiulse- and not being productive.
I hate 'smart phones'. I don't use mine nearly as much as other people do. I grew up in a part of the US where people don't believe in phones - PA.
Shocking really and the 12 second attention span. Will they survive to be real?
@@user-hl4jj3hb4h I heard that during the nation-wide emergency alert test, groups of Amish were busted when their hidden cellphones that they charge at neighbors houses started going off (since you cannot silence the emergency alert)
None of it is affordable including the grocery store. Just walking into a place implies you will buy something, which not that log ago wasn't a big deal. I saw this really sad thing recently where the guy in front of me at a coffee shop bought a coffee and a cookie. The cashier said, "that's $9.50"". He shouted, "FOR WHAT???" Then he just stomped out without paying. I won't even go for coffee unless someone goes with me because everyone else there is preoccupied with someone else. Nobody even wants to go for coffee with me anymore because they all say they are too busy. Sometimes they say it's family priorities or their husband gets jealous. I also even remember a story from way back, probably before a lot of you were born. Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd at one point had a nervous breakdown and was ejected from the band. Eventually he began a random shopping habit because he lost purpose. It escalated to buying things he didn't need, so he would just give it away to his landlord. He eventually went broke with a habit that served no purpose other than something to do or a place to be.
And what exactly is a dream?
And what exactly is a joke?
My third place is nature’s green wonder. Going outside just for a walk is the best thing that could ever happen to me. Clears the mind and helps me relax 😊
Totally agree. I also love to mix it up, driving within 20 minutes there are like 10 different beautiful spots to go to. It's easier to just sit at home but the rewards are many.
Same. Every day with my dog.
Nature is my primary third place too. It is peaceful and relaxing, but it usually lacks any real socializing.
It's still quite isolating and lacking in human interaction, though.
@@gauloise6442 Not for me, I usually meet my friend and his two dogs.
I haven’t had a third place in years. Life is just work. Socialize after work? Unthinkable. I’d rather socialize with my mattress and blankets.
Hear! Hear!
The idea of socializing after work with colleagues makes me want to hide forever.
@@seltzermint5 oh gosh yes, my company does to 5 a 7's in the kitchen, I appreciate the thought, but yeah, I'd rather go see my friends or go home than just talk about work for 2 more hours, even if you give me free drinks and snacks.
@@TenOfZero1 definitely agree! I'm so glad my workplace is diverse enough they don't even pretend we're gonna want to hang out after.
😂😂😂
This is a massive reason for the decline in mental health especially in men. Long gone is the men’s working club or social clubs where men would go to blow off steam and “shoot the shit” with mates.
Back when women were kept in the kitchen, raising kids, and keeping house?! 🤔
@@stellaallbright4750 Why do you have to create a problem where there isn't one? They didn't say anything about women being housewives or even imply it.
In the U.K I believe it is by design, part of the vilified drinking culture was people meeting up in the pub after work, women too. Lots of union and political movements had their inception in those places. Divide and conquer is the mantra of government and corporations, were are seeing the long term effects of this pervasive attitude.
Perversely the only bit of that culture we see now is the bit that should have been deleted, the antisocial drinking to oblivion.
And yes it is right and proper to have equal rights for all, I just think it should be achieved by giving to those who don't have, rather than taking from those who do. In this context that is entirely possible. Equality in misery is no goal.
@@stellaallbright4750 No one suggested anything like that, but that's the conclusion you go to automatically...
Is it really any wonder that men all across the West are depressed and lonely when any potential solution to that depression and loneliness is immediately shot down as oppressive to women somehow?
A male-only space, by definition, doesn't require anything at all from women. They don't have to lift a finger or sacrifice anything for it to happen.
@@stellaallbright4750They’re running HR departments now with blue hair and reminding people to use the correct gender pronouns.
No disposable income: library, park, biking, walking
Those are good ways to get out of the house, but not to hang out with friends or make new friends in the evening/night.
And it assumes someone has time for these activities, and there are suitable places nearby within reasonable transport or travel distance.
All of those things are great & healthy .
@@annacastillo5804 They are, but as pointed out, not for socialization.
@@rask004 How can someone be soooo possibly busy these days that they can't take any time to go walk in a park or a hiking trail for an hour? If that is actually someone's issue, maybe they need to reevaluate their life structure.
My third place is often the walk between 1st and 2nd place.
You’re lucky to live in a walkable location
The death of the third place is just a variation of that other sociological problem: the impossibility of making friends anymore after you are an established adult.
That isn't correct. I gave a puppy and ho dogv training. Another lady and I now meet up and take our dogs to the dog park.
I've also started going to a diet club 6 weeks ago and going out for afternoon tea on Friday.
Friendships don't happen immediately, I always think it takes about 6 months to a year, but both have definite possibilities for a long term friendship.
You can make friends anywhere at any age. What are you talking about?
@@IzzyOnTheMove I dont think you understand the definition of "friend." People you meet and enjoy and socialize with regularly are simply a social group. A friend is someone who willingly drives 4 hours to do nothing but just to sit and talk with you, and you both are free to share your deepest vulnerabilities. You also communicate regularly to share all your latest thoughts and activities, no matter how mundane, and both of you have a genuine interest in that. I had two such people, both of whom dated back to childhood, 60 years ago. One died 5 years ago. If/when the other dies, there is no possibility I will ever have a friend like that again.
Also, being a widowed and single man, it's far more difficult to even get into a social group, than if you're married, because you're automatically stereotyped as a needy leech, even if you feel perfectly whole and complete as a single. The whole process of trying to elbow your way into a group of people whose lives are already filled with family connections and so forth, is so awkward and painful that it's far easier to just be alone, or have a cat or dog.
@@drc3poIt’s true. What you said is reality.
Friendships are built around purpose, I've found in adult life, helping others. I don't mean being used though, but being built around a purpose can look similar. In my situation I help people using skills I'm good at but they have other skills that underpin a whole different world and my connection with them is a ticket to that world which us enlightening and rewarding. Friendships can have gaps between interactions of days, weeks, months which may seem not worthwhile but consistency and the long term perspective is key.
She did a remarkably insightful look into modern American psychosis. We have lost so much for the little we’ve gained from tech. To what end..
More and more people are starting to realise what the internet has cost us.
Life pre internet was so much more fun, smart phones and social media have destroyed the world.
It's as good as it is bad. A real double edge sword.
I think the internet was OK up until around 2010 because you would sit down behind a computer for an hour or two, It was when smartphones got really powerful in around 2010 when things really started to get messed up.
very similar things were said about TV even before it was colorized in the 60s (no idea if they said that about radio, back when?) ... which was while there were merely 3 networks and maybe a couple local channels UHF... so being connected to the rest of the world has advantages but humans need to control their time spent staring at screens. What I read here is a need to Go Outside, plus get face to face interactions. In rural areas the many church meetings and dinners are often more than once a week.
I'm 31 and losing my mind from boredom and loneliness. There's absolutely nowhere to go in my middle class suburbia in the evenings, it's completely dead. I can go to a corner store to buy groceries or a gas station, or an overpriced bog average restaurant. That's it. I go running/walking nearly every evening, and I pass maybe 2-3 other people, none of whom ever acknowledge me. It is PAINFUL!! Why do we live like this and tolerate it! There has to be more to life than going from work to home and repeating the process ad infinitum!! This is soul destroying!! We need to have community sports which invite you to turn up and enjoy, run clubs, trivia, open air bars... anything to get the locals engaging with one another in a relaxed setting. We would all be MUCH better off for it.
Meetup groups? Clubs?
People also seem to be suspicious if you try to be friendly as well.
Paint!!!
Why not start your own social group? You say you like running, so post some ads looking for like minded people in your area to form a running club, get to know people and expand it into socialising, and then maybe other sports and other activities.
You might be surprised that there are lots of people near you who are all thinking the same thing. Good luck!
set up a ping pong table in your driveway on Fri night and invite a couple neighbors.
I just love hanging out at home now. I am 50 and am happy with my own company. 😊
It's been said before making friends as a male past your 20s isn't easy...I'm counting the days until I can join the bowls team or sit in the coffee shop in the morning, the pub in the afternoon and then go to the movie theatre ( if any one of them's still open..and I get an OAP discount). The future's so bright - gotta wear shades .
This guy gets it
What do you do at home though? Do you just sit on the couch on your phone, or do you have a hobby like gardening?
@@jaysterling26 You might want to start bowling now and not wait. Bowling alleys and pool halls are closing down because gens m&z would rather be on their phones. In my city 2 of the 5 bowling alleys have closed. I used to bowl all the time in my teens and twenties with my friends. But then over time people move away for jobs or families.
Here here
I grew up in the eighties. We played outside until it got dark and our parents walked out on the porch and hollered at us to come in. What fun times those were. 😊
As an 80s and 90s kid video games were something we did with the neighbors along with all of the other things you're talking about. To me it's crazy that all PlayStation games have gone 1 player. Like they literally expect you to buy every child a system. It used to be that a game system was a family thing.
I’ve never been a big socializer, but bookstores were my favorite places to hang out before they all started disappearing. I love sitting in a cozy chair with a latte and a good book! Now, “going out” for me is just going to the grocery store.
Maybe if there was a way to make libraries have more of a Barnes & Noble feel. Of course, the way this country (USA) is going, the wrong person will get a hold of this idea and try to squeeze money out of it. > sigh
@@The9thDirector true. My problem with libraries is that I don’t like to borrow books because I’m afraid of losing them or forget to take them back. At a bookstore, I can just buy it and enjoy it!
I loved book stores and coffee shops! Funny I treated myself to takeout for lunch one day this month during the work day at a sit down restaurant, and a lot of people were eating there alone w their laptops lol Maybe that’s a third place for some now…
My local library on long island has done that. It now features a cafe. This is in old field ny. You may eat at the cafe without your books though. It’s a very rich area near multi millionaire dollar homes
Try you local library :) we love people to hang out (ours sadly doesn't allow drinks, no by the computers for sure) but we have comfy chairs and BOOKS - lots of BOOKS!
8:00 70s free range kid here, absolutely wonderful experience.
60s free range kid here
Your presentation is spot on. I'm single and 80 years old. All the things I used to do you included and yes they are not the same. What is left is too expensive for my meager SS income. My rent is too expensive for me to go out and live the way I thought I would at this time in my life. Yes, I do spend a lot of time in the Grocery stores wondering who can afford this stuff. I now travel the World looking out my 65 inch computer window. The important takeaway is how you/we/me miss meaningful one on one conversation about whatever we need to talk about to a friend or a stranger, which is hard to tell the diff anymore.
Ever seen Logans run?
I'm 50 and you're spot on.
People don’t value eachother like we used to
It’s pretty sad
We (not me though - 😊) have our smartphones now. We don’t depend on the interaction of fellow humans. Sadly.
its because people have no value whatsoever, most of them are below minimum wage but the regulations make them overpriced
The plandemic had its desired effects by those who engineered it.
@@maksymilianzajac5262 People have inherent value. How dare you try to put a price on life?
I blame Obama
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name
And they're always glad you came
You want to be where you can see
Our troubles are all the same
You want to be where everybody knows your name
I've always liked that theme song 🎵
Cheers for that 😊
begin doing that and the sheep would follow!
I'm a stigma person and I'm not into media, entertainment, and people.
Yeah I love Nickelback.
I miss the late 2000s. We still went out and played and did real things but it was also the peak time of the internet and online gaming. Even online, you felt like part of a community. Now feels like we have neither.
💯💯
In the Marine Corps I learned that boredom kills. I always kept the troops busy even when there was absolutely nothing to do. I made up things to do which mostly involved cleaning interior and exterior of living space, cleaning gear, etc. When people get bored they sometimes do creative things if they are the creative type but more often they do very destructive things.
I was just in front of my house when my neighbor stepped outside. Inspired by your video, I was determined to strike up a conversation.
But he had his AirPods in his ears, so no conversation occurred. I feel the number of social barriers is increasing every return!
Wave your arms next time. Get their attention.
@@tianamarie989 he wasn’t looking my way, but point taken. 😁
Haha! So funny. So true. 😂
depressibg
Don’t give up …. Try again
If you know a young widowed person, please go out of your way to be kind to us. Our perspective is going to be extremely different. Thank you.
Maybe those of us who have homes need to make them a third place for people we know? Doing hobbies together, or watch a film and discuss over supper, or game nights, have a fire in the backyard if you’re so lucky as to have a backyard, and talk about what comes up….? This is not my natural bent. I prefer to keep to myself in my neighborhood, but I admire the two people in my neighborhood who go out of their way to offer more than nodding to the rest of us. They make the neighborhood into an actual neighborhood, something we all belong to.
I live in a small Midwestern town in the US, and I've come to see spontaneous conversations with old people as these precious gems, fewer and farther between all the time.
I purchased an unruly, unbuildable piece of land on a small private lake 9 summers ago. Many people had looked at it but written it off when they found out you couldn’t put a septic system or holding tank in, therefore, you can’t build a house there. Truth be told, I wouldn’t have been able to afford the land as a single earner household if it had been buildable anyway! Since I bought it I have spent countless hours there (it’s my third place) cleaning it up, putting a dock in, running electricity, putting a posh she shed in, putting an adorable outhouse with a separating toilet in, building a large pavilion great for family gatherings, and most recently fitting it with an rv hookup. The place is teaming with wildlife , there’s always something to do and I have really come to enjoy the interaction that is lake life. This year it will be a small electric boat for dockside chatting and slow cruising.
Sounds REALLY nice to me! Be well! 👍👍
My land was an area of unprofitable, partly wet pasture. I burnt my bridges and managed to buy it in a sealed bid, as the local farmers put a low value on it. Now it's woodland & orchard providing me with fuel and fruit, and I live lawfully in a barn I've built on it. Worth 10x the cost now, but I love my land and could never sell her. Amazing what risk taking can bring.
lakefront property the most valuable and sought ever, never loses value
It's also MUCH MORE difficult to actually socialize in real life these days too... I deleted all my social media apps (FB, TW, IG, etc) some 7 8 years ago and they were not good for my mental health... Everytime i go out, im literally the only person not staring at my phone and i'm seen as odd and strange & women think I am a creep... I try to smile & say hello to people i come across and only get a emotionless blank stare back... Going out gives me panic attacks & anxiety nowadays that I prefer to stay inside my apartment most of the time
Walking around with my wife and kids and saying hi to a random person: 👼
Walking around by myself and saying hi:🧛🧛♂🧛♂
I think you sound lovely and wise, not at all creepy.
You are so on point about the third place has disappeared. I'm 60 and started noticing the "disappearance of the 3rd place" as the internet age developed in the 90's. I call it the revenge of the nerd age. Tech has made everyone a nerd. No social skills.
Maybe if those people you label 'nerd' and determine as lacking 'social skills' is the primary reason ALL of this started? If you treat someone as an animal do not be surprised when he acts like one...
The destruction of the third place is intentional and malicious.
The most dangerous thing for the ruling class is for the people to congregate and start talking to each other. coffee shops played a large role in fueling the French Revolution - people of different classes mixed, forming bonds of kinship, had an opportunity to see their similarities, complain about taxes, and eventually organize.
I went to a coffee shop every day for 12 years. It had been a gathering place for at least 40 years. Every day by 3 PM there would be a cloud of smoke and several groups of people that would intermingle, drifting from one table to another. It was a tempting place to stop for strangers walking out of the adjacent movie theater. They were open till 2 - perfect for people leaving the adjacent bar to sober up before going home.
Around 2012 that shopping center was bought by an out of state real estate company who raised the rent, built a chain coffee shop in the middle of the parking lot, and sneaked into city hall to pass a smoking ban that was only enforced at this shopping center. The tone changed over night and the vibe was dead; by 2014 there was no significant population of regulars. I spent the next couple years exploring public gathering places. As a home health nurse I spent A LOT of time working on my computer in random places so I had daily opportunities to loiter in public for hours (before covid).
Maybe there's some dive bars that survived the last decade, IDK, I don't drink, and couldn't afford to drink at bars if I did.
Maybe there's some active church communities that survived the last decade, IDK, I'm not religious.
But I know for a fact that in the south silicon valley, there are no secular, class heterogeneous third places to just loiter at and meet strangers.
I used to think this loss of third places was wholly a product of social anxiety's cure - social media. But as I become more politically educated I can't help but notice how devastatingly powerful this loss is for the ruling class. We may have been nudged towards isolation by the inevitability of technology, but public policy pushed to guarantee our isolation. I'm not claiming a huge organized conspiracy. Just a thousand little cuts - a real estate company here, a starbucks there, a news report about how unsafe we are, an anti-ergonomic bench placed by a city to move the homeless. Like Carlin says - there's no need for conspiracy when interests of the powerful converge. The opportunity to live a full human experience and connect to our community has been stolen in order to protect the status quo and keep people out of public unless they're rich enough to drop $100 minimum on a night out.
Because I promise you - if you are so poor that you need to consider the value of $100 for a couple of hours on the town, then your interests are 100% counter to those who make the decisions; you are dangerous and can not be allowed to congregate.
PS - one venue that seems to have survived is Vietnamese coffee shops. I didn't know this was a thing! The baristas wear bikinis and serve middle aged guys playing card/dominoes as they watch sports on TVs that cover every inch of the walls. If only they spoke English and played Magic: The Gathering I might still have a reason to leave the house :(
nailed it 🎯
Agreed, I just posted pretty much the same thing
I used to go to friend's house to play cheap poker. Then we would get breakfast at midnight at a local 24hr coffee shop. We would joke and make fun of each other. Get up on Saturday and play half court basketball. All these places no longer exist. Gone or to dangerous to go at night or day.
you are so right, this is exactly the comment i was looking for, i would so be down to hang out with you because we have similar world views, and i have been trying to stave off the destruction of community by trying to build some, though i have since left those behind, shame it sounds like youre in norcal, i was in socal for a long time
My public library is still #1. I am there 3-4 times a week, usually just picking up books, movies or music. But I also go to free bingo, yoga, adult crafting & 3D printing activities, book discussions and author visits. This is why I have acquaintances & friends from late 20s to early 60s (I'm 47).
The mall thing makes me sad. That was my hangout from age 11-18. Lots of bars and clubs later on.
Other spots for us are hiking trails and parks. Today I'm attending a "stuff swap" at a beautiful lake with likeminded people I never would have met if not for social media.
This video really made me feel lucky to live in a small city like I do, there are a lot of things to do and it is not too expensive. Heart breaking to imagine otherwise, which is the case so many places!
We don't even have a library, and it's considered a city... My ass. It does not, it's a bloody swamp, where dreams die.
You're right, stuff does not just come our way, you have to go out and search for it.
My public library was nice until it moved to, ironically, a more central and walkable town center area, and now all the local special ed and adult daycare places drop their charges off there all the time, driving everybody else away. I stopped in to wait for my parents to pick me up one time and it had taken on such a stifling, institutional feeling wafting off all the staff, I was shocked.
No activities here
@@raloufen4292 sorry to hear it!! Ours even has take-home adult craft kits (monthly).
My husband and I just made a bunch of things for free and it was fun, I wish all libraries were like mine!
Watching this video bummed me out intensely; it made me understand that I have NEVER had a "third place". In my childhood, I had home and school, because I lived so far away from society that there was no place near enough for all my friends to gather except school. After they graduated, I was alone in school, then when I graduated, I was alone. Written letters was my so-called second place, and there was no third. Now, I'm past sixty, and there has never been a third place. No wonder I'm so isolated and depressed; I'm not only restricted to home and the 'net, but I'm obsolete; there is no such thing as a second place for me.
Just my two cents: I joined a dance community 2 years ago and it was a snake nest. Sometimes being surrounded by people, when they are not good people, is much worse than isolation so we have to try a good group of people and be careful who who we trust.
I can relate to the risk of "feeling isolated and depressed" but I work hard at not letting this happen by actively seeking things of beauty (exploring nature with a camera)and working on developing an array of skills, which I didn't have time to do in my work life. I suppose a dog might fill a void - they also get you out and they will always need you. Even if its impossible to make like minded friends - and thats something which seems really rather difficult to make in retirement, strangely. The net has been a real friend to me, I return to the country of my birth and go traveling on Google Maps to places both familiar and new places and have fun that way.
I completely understand what you're saying about there not having been third places anywhere near where you lived. The place I grew up in was a similar case. A movie theater and most stores were an hour's drive away, and I think a lot of people in my graduating class would just hang out at a diner. The local diners were AWFUL, and most of them were smoking establishments. I really cannot tolerate cigarette smoke, so that was out. When I was in high school there was very briefly a real artisan hangout type of cafe that opened up where they had an open mic night and people could read poems or perform a song or whatever. It only lasted a few months, tops, and I went twice, and then it was gone forever. There has never been another place like that in this entire county, even over 20 years later. Otherwise, there was only ever been the odd Dunkin Donuts or McDonald's. I moved to a city for a decade in my 20's and enjoyed some genuine third places there, but a lot of those places have disappeared since I had to move back to my hometown for financial and health reasons. Now my hometown is becoming more and more like a "suburban" area, with more chain stores, less nature, everything homogenized without being particularly unique or a place you want to spend time with anyone else. It's somehow maybe even worse than when I was growing up, and it is especially alienating to me now that I'm going to be 40 and don't have all of the conventional keeping up with the Joneses life accoutrements which are all anyone around here cares about or talks about.
It touched my heart when you said that written letters were a second place for you. Written communication was a huge comfort and satisfaction to me in school when I would pass notes to my friends, and then later when the Internet happened, for a while the existence of e-mail was such an incredible thing. I developed relationships with penpals who I would e-mail with and it was my only window out of the extreme isolation and oppressive emptiness I felt in my hometown growing up. Nowadays it's harder and harder to find people who want to e-mail like that.
I will say that moving to a city didn't really help ultimately because I ended up working a totally solitary job there for a long time, with no time or energy to take full advantage of third places like the real taverns and cafes and shops and community spaces that exist in an urban environment. The other problem I ran into is that I learned people just don't seem to have the drive to cultivate new friendships in adulthood, especially in the city environment. It's not like it is in the movies where city people have a crew of close knit friends. I'm not sure if it's due to the changing times and the interference of social media and things, or if it's just that we're socialized into believing that adult life isn't about friends. Maybe people just never learn how to make friends outside of the basic systems that ensure the cultivation of familiarity, like school and work. The friends I made in the city were great at first, but they weren't friendships that got enough time or intention to be permanent. People only think about you when you're relevant to their life in some way. Once I left the city, I became someone "out there", instead of a roommate or a person who went to the same events. I think things can still be different for friendships in adulthood, but it takes a serious strategy and very un-fun staunch commitment to kind of forcing the bond-building stuff to happen.
Most of why I wrote all of this is because after I read your comment, I wanted to say don't give up. Yes, our culture is extremely ridiculous in the ways it makes people feel like they're obsolete - whether by poverty, or age, or eccentricity, or whatever else. As a woman, I was on my way to cultural and societal obsolescence by the time age 35 rolled around. But no one is obsolete because the world is an incredibly huge place and there are always other people who feel the same way. There are always more places, always more options out there. It is very difficult to find them sometimes and it is very hard to muster the motivation at times, and sometimes it requires completely counterintuitive techniques- but there is still more for you in this world, because there's always more for everyone. If you want a third place, find a completely unexpected batshit option for a place, and dig into it. Only the social rules say that you don't fit because you're in your 60's. Real human beings will simply respond to you as a human being if you go to a place and ask questions. There are websites specifically for finding penpals, if writing letters would be a place that's meaningful to you. I use those from time to time myself. I am still isolated by health and poverty stuff, and I'm still stuck in my hometown, but when I talk to someone new I feel more like a person and not like those things which otherwise feel like they define me. In reality, that stuff doesn't define us. We are still valuable people with thoughts and interests and things to offer, as long we breathe.
find an art show; a public garden; a church; farmers market. etc.. talk to at least one person there. Get their name and learn one thing about them.
Try the gym or a fitness class! They're very supportive environments 😊
People just are really not open to relationships anymore. They are self absorbed and believe they are overly important when they really aren't. Plus if you do hang out with someone you can barely get them off their phone.
From my childhood up into my 30's I spent countless hours in every kind of third place imaginable. The library, the woods, playing games in my neighborhood, in cafes, at the movies, in music venues, etc. As I got older I sought more private at home experiences, where I immersed myself in books, films, and eventually painting and making films. I feel very satisfied with this life now, only occasionally lonely, because I have produced a lot of art, which is what I used to dream about as I was doing all those previous things. It's a matter of finding things which satisfy your soul. Artists have to sacrifice aspects of their life in order to achieve something greater. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.😆
Not everybody has access to things that satisfy their soul. I'm lucky because I need people and I live somewhere where I can have a group of friends. If I didn't, I wouldn't be satisfied, and a LOT of people live in places where it's impossible, and they're stuck. You're very, very fortunate.
Yep. I loved being a kid in the 80's. We were outside most of the time. Great to be a kid in the 80's. Society was so different!
I was a kid in the 80s too and spent a lot of time outdoors with neighborhood kids exploring etc. But as a bookworm and not sporty, I did spend a lot of time inside reading and watching TV too. I noticed as early as the late 90s when I was in college that kids around me were never outside or riding bikes etc.
YOU are society!!! Not only now, but you always have been!!! Thanks for nothing!!!!
80s were the deadliest decade dummy
@@seltzermint5 well read up on stats the 80s sucked
@@tulip811 Right? Everyone complains and then they give back in to it and continue the cycle of what they claim they can't stand.
We need to stop saying "we're more connected than ever before". We're NOT. Folks are losing their ability to empathise, to just tolerate the foibles are others (and get their feedback on yours), learn emotional regulation and so much more. Our current 'connection' is an illusion.
Nicole, thank you for this video. You've described something that I was experiencing and didn't even know it. I'm 43, single, straight edge, self employed, and I work from home. I thought it was just me, or just my town that all this was happening to. It's at least a little comforting knowing that I'm not alone
First-time viewer of this channel. I'm an extroverted Gen-Xer who misses having random interactions at 3rd places like cafes or bookstores. Because so many of us are on our phones when we're out, I think we're less likely to strike up conversations with strangers. This video resonates with me - thanks, Nicole!
This has been driving me crazy for years now. It's so hard to get anybody to do anything because they're so sucked into their stupid phones, social media, etc. It seems like almost all my peers have been slowly degraded by crippling anxiety to the point where they're afraid to leave the house. I shudder to think how messed up the next generation is going to be.
Boredom is a critical part of being human. It's what, for all of history and before, motivated humans to collectively advance society and technology. Instead of just living to survive like most animals, we lived to discover and thrive. With boredom being taken away by smartphones and social media, countless potential in humans all over the world is being crushed. It's a sad state of affairs that makes a dystopian future feel closer and closer every day.
Feel this!! Everything is just getting worse and worse
Idk, I'm not afraid to leave my house, I just don't want to go out.
During covid was when it all started going down hill with a lot of third places being closed down or shut down. People stopped caring after the fact.
Weed is also jamming the machine
As a child of the 80s Im shocked how boring life has become & how we now live, it feels sad & wrong to me. I work fulltime but make a huge effort to live my best life but I look around and so many people cant be bothered to do anything.
Watching children be consumed by devices destroys me living in melbourne australia. Sad stuff......
It’s all devices and brand names now. Just like we predicted but no one listened
The 1980s was possibly the best time in human history to be a child, mainly because we still had the freedom of the past but also bikes were cheap enough for everyone, great kids tv and the promise of the future.
@@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391
I agree as I was a kid then. Also The early 1990s were also amazing
the world literally went insane after 9/11. Especially In America.
More fear
More paranoia
More police state abuse
More surveillance
More violation of constitutional rights
Etc
And I’m sure the radiation from all these devices we have now are hurting us physically, and emotionally.
same here 1983
Getting older and discovering that I'm more comfortable being home is part of it too.
I have about 10 different 3rd places. They're far from gone. There are so many in fact.
Here's a quick list just from the top of my head
- The gym
- my favorite bar
- my sports team practices and games
- my other sports team
- about 5 different Meetup groups that I go to regularly
- About 3 different parks in my city that I frequent
true, finding third places is actually easier now with online meet-ups for sports teams or hobbyists. You have to be proactive, no one said socializing was meant to be effortless.
I tried making my local McDonald's a third place. Having coffee to start my day with my laptop. The manager told me I could not sit there for "hours and hours" he was "loosing business". I never saw many people there. I won't try that again.
McDonald’s sucks!
We let soulless corporations dictate what society looks like. Our subservience to authority has gotten to the point that a manager at McDonald's is telling us what we can and cannot do."OK, I can't sit in your box, guess I'll go back to my box." It's like our lives cater to these businesses now and not the other way around.
Same thing happened to me. I got told by the waiter that the manager thought it was weird that I'm sitting for an hour by myself ordering only one coffee. After that experience I never visited a café again.
Definitely worth shopping around with cafes. The ones less than half full, not a franchise, and with relaxed staff are the way to go. Find one or two people reading a paper or on a laptop and you're golden!
@@seanm996 Thank you Sean
One of your best and sharpest observations, Nicole. Now, imagine what this world is like when you're 60.
So true
I’m there as well. It’s a weird world.
I’m 45 and completely agree
I'm 60 in 3 months. This is a clown world full of corruption and fakery. Looking forward to getting off this ride.
I send you all my best wishes
Don't worry, as a fellow millennial I can say with confidence you didn't miss anything having never watched 'Friends'
This is something I never thought about. Never heard the term “Third Place.” Something to ponder.
I don’t have a 3rd place, but am intent of focusing on hospitality. Going out has become so expensive that I want to go back to hosting friends at home like we used to in my 20s.
I'm turning into a hermit more and more these days, but if I'm not at home or at work then I'm either at the library, thrift store or outside on a nature walk.
fellow thrift fanatic here!
Hermit here ✋
Similar here. Parks/woods, thrift shops.
Kermit here, I’m an amphibian.
I started a restaurant with this in mind. It was awesome and partially built by the community. Covid, plus a number of family deaths, led me to shut it down. I've been wanting to start another... this is a great reminder. Thank you!!
Great vlog! Very pertinent content. I am 72 and live in Toronto but your comments certainly are reflective of what I see now.
Third place now is internet. All virtual places like forums, comments, etc.
A very poor substitute.
A hollow shell of the concept
Brave new world
Like right here on CZcams and sharing opinions
We slowly traded macro privacy for micro privacy. This is by design, and started in the 1980s, and has gradually progressed. Used to be the government/corporations didn't know much about you and your neighbors did, now you don't know your neighbors, and the gov't and corporations know so much about you, they can predict your behavior.
That is an utterly terrifying fact....
Man is the devil looking for power over you 😂
Not government. It’s corporations. Government isn’t interested in a tiny fraction of what corporations scrape about you.
@@elizabethclaiborne6461 The gov has a file on everybody. They know everything about you.
Indeed it is by design.
We need to EVISCERATE the people who are behind this - but the sheep will keep voting the Trudeaus and the Bidens and the Sunaks in....because, well.......SOSHAL JUSSTISS!
You are so right, Nicole. I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s. Yes, I am getting old! It is depressing to drive through a modern subdivision these days. The mailboxes are at the END of the street. The houses all look alike. There are no kids playing in the street. They don't walk or ride their bikes to school. The park, the mall, the coffee shop, the movie theatre, pool hall, and sports activities I enjoyed as a child have changed into something else. Your presentation is excellent. Thanks.
Modern life summed up perfectly.
I lived in the city centre years ago and it was very easy to go out in the evening or at weekends. Since moving to the suburbs it’s a bit harder because it involves travel.
I’m not the most sociable but during COVID lockdown I became a total hermit and was happy to always stay at home afterwards. Working from home three days a week has reinforced that. I also spend far too much time on social media, especially CZcams!
A great deal of time is spent sitting/lying on the couch when I should be doing creative things. There seems to be constant tiredness, though my work isn’t particularly demanding.
I have a friend who, when he returns from work, grabs his laptop and phone and turns on the TV. He then spends the rest of the evening scrolling, playing games or watching Hollywood rubbish. He never goes anywhere. I find that prospect terrifying and depressing.
Hopefully, as you said, things will turn full circle at some stage.
When I was a teen (and even in my 20s), teens didn't hang out at coffee shops... and they sure didn't drink coffee. Coffee shops were only frequented by retired people.
As a teen we hung out in the mall food court
@@TheKnallkorperI hang out with co workers now sometimes at a food court.
some gen z in their 20s look like they are nearing retirement
I used to work at a gas station in the small town I live in. Out of towners would always ask "so what is fun to do around here?" I could only reply "drink and procreate🤷♀️."
Every town and city is that way.
the problem many times is people in their 20s think they are "too cool" to do anything but drink/party and then by their 30s-40s and later, they have wedged themselves into a box of supposed coolness when they MAY enjoy things like clubs, museums, playing music or participating in active lifestyles. At least from what I have observed.
Sounds poor and uneducated
My dad tells the story of a town near where he grew up (in the 50s), about when a pastor and his son from out of town came to visit the police chief, who had a son about the same age. The pastor's son asked the chief's son "what do you do for fun around here?" "We go to the cat house (a brothel)."
The pastor asked the police chief "what do you do for fun around here?" "We raid the cat house. Wanna go?"
I used to have a 3rd place. I don’t think I could have explained it better so ditto to all of what you said in this video. I’ve talked to my kids to have a multi housing effort so we can be supportive to one another. Hopefully we will get back to talking face to face rather than online.
I realized how great it was before 2020 in the office, going to lunch with your colleagues, playing table tennis, socializing. Now with work from home this is all gone and I go to the office once a few months.
I keep telling people work from home is horrible for society
Futuristic films have always portrayed the future as being bland and disconnected. Humans that function and nothing more. It's dire and nobody seems to question it. It's the direction we are heading. My hope lies in the cyclical nature of life. I hope that the fundamental need for connection overrides big businesses stripping the humanity from life.
This hits home. I realized I didn't have a third place for the last 3 years living in the same town. Also, no friends at all. When people ask why, I just say I prefer doing things on my own or that I've just been really busy.
I have a front porch though. I began simply sitting on the front porch in the evenings before the sun goes down almost every weeknight, and in the mornings and sometimes afternoons on weekends. You'd be surprised how many people I've been able to interact with just by doing that. I now know my neighbors, the family across the street, walkers who come through my area, and I even got asked to dog sit on weekends! I am 25 btw!
I don't drink or party (prefer to do that myself) so bars and clubs are out of picture, don't like the atmosphere. I like to read so I've been going to the library as well after work.
My best piece of advice is you need to do NEW things every week. Even if it is just one new thing on one day. It's extremely difficult to do when you are used to just staying in your home after work or on the weekends but you need to. Or else, it will be 20 years from now and you still are stuck in the same bubble, same world, same experiences.
Really good piece of advice. I find it difficult to come up with new things to do, though. I always find an excuse such us lack of time, energy etc I think I'm going to set a monthly goal of just one new thing😊
@@CeliaMaria-lo8cx That is fantastic ☺️ And good for you, sooo good for you! You are already taking a big leap toward your goal by thinking about it. Even try writing it down on a sticky note or whiteboard and have it placed somewhere you pass often in your house. Keep me posted on how it goes 😇
May I offer you an invitation to visit a church of Christ in your community?
❤
@@3075bridget What do you mean? I am part of a church!
You're lucky to have that front porch. I sit outside on mine a lot too, but our house is down a slope, and so I don't have a view to the road and am instead facing my garden. I can hear comings and goings, but never made any connections with people.
There's simply no sense of local community anymore.
I can still talk to elderly folks. They do say hi and smile.
Stuck in traffic between the first two.
lol
😂😂😂
Windshield time...every day something different going by.
I'm usually out hunting or fishing harvesting wild food or out in my garden. Being the means of own production. After I retired as I miner came back to Newfoundland and took up the habits and lifestyle I was taught as a boy.
That sounds like the ideal life. I miss my home town by the Atlantic. But houses go for multi-millions now.
More and more people live in cities now so that rural pleasure has gone. I sure miss food gardening. Sometimes I wander around the apartment blocks community gardens just too relax.
I’ve watched this whole process happen from the 1960’S to today. It’s been so disheartening to watch. I’m currently looking for my third place and am not finding anything suitable. And you are right, being a non-drinker. Seriously limits your options.
I know I'm older than you (middle of the boomer range) but you magnificently described my childhood. We were out after school until dark (when mom came out and yelled for us to come in), moved to a group of guys in high school playing softball in the summer and basketball in winter every night. We learned how to negotiate relationships. make compromises, learned to get along with others and, even as I have aged, kept in touch and cared for each other. But now I still have third spaces but the invasion of smart phone technology into those spaces have reduced them to just another place to scroll.
I see the activities my grandchildren are involved in now; highly structured, organized and supervised. Those social skills learned by necessity are now lost on the kids.
Great video.
Hi Nicole. I’m 61 and my third place is the roller skating rink. I spent my high school years roller skating back in the day when third places were more common. I’m happy to say that roller skating has made a come back and it’s so refreshing to see young people out on the rink, phones in pocket, having a blast. So happy to be on the rink again after 44 years. Loving my third place. Met lots of great people too!
Love your channel. Keep up the good fight.
Peter-Ottawa
So inspiring!!
Here's how you bring it up:
"Hey, I just realized the other day that I've lived next to you for over two years, but I don't actually know your name."
Or find out online. Tomorrow you say hi Zeke!
It shouldn't be that embarrassing; I'm sure they don't know her name either 😂
Those who do drugs, the third place is at the neighborhood drug house. Oh, and they know your name too. lol jk
This video hit a nerve. As I'm watching, I'm like yeah I used to go to those places when I was younger. Then I thought about my third place and said Fuck out loud because it's walmart...sooo sad...Everything you said was spot on and you are a wake up call. It's just too easy to become a mindless zombie and people get caught up in it then it becomes the normal. You are my new hero and I wrote on my calendar to cancel amazon prime :-) glad I found your channel!
Great video! I agree with all you said. Like myself, many seniors, in particular, are very poor, isolated, and lonely. Life has been reduced to a mountain of books and a recliner. I'm sure my situation is not uncommon.
This video hit painfully close to home. I can't drink alcohol because of health issues, I have always been excluded from local social life, which is 100% alcohol based around here. If you don't drink, you're not welcome. So it has always been pretty much my room, books and the internet for me.
@sevenmadeonkey So, order/drink a soda or fruit juice or whatever non-alcoholic beverage you like. Not drinking alcohol is not really much of a barrier - in my opinion anyway. Get back out there and ignore those few who would not welcome you, based on your drinking choices! Cheers.
@gwarlow some people don't want to be around booze or people who indulge in it. It has nothing to do with drinking it yourself.
I started taking swing dance lessons. It's not the cheapest option, but the dance studio I go to has become my third place. In addition to the classes, they throw Saturday night dance parties. I've met some really great people there, and have now become one of the 'regulars.'
While it doesn't interest me personally I have friends who love this, as well as burlesque which sounds a bit "yikes" but I've helped with the music for them and it's quite artistic rather than lewd mostly.
@@seltzermint5 Burlesque sounds so cool!
@@tracyingram7939 it's neat. They always encourage me to actually join but I'm way too self-conscious! I know I look totally average but the idea of dancing that way, and seeing my own photos and videos...well it is just NOT gonna happen lol. I'll leave them to it.
@@seltzermint5 I'd feel the same way. I have enough trouble with just being in a swimsuit.
Yeah! I've been taking a jewelry class for over a decade now. It's my only third space and I love being around people who like making cool stuff.
I realized that one of my third place is motorcycling. I have met people, friends. Even it's a solitude hobby, the contact with other people is quite easy at stops because you can talk about motorcycles at first. Also it's a great mix of people with different backgrounds. the job you do doesn't matter, because it's the motorcycle that is the center at this. Also the third place is then mobile, it moves to different cities, countryside and such.
A 3rd place I’ve come to enjoy is Meetup events. I join in on hikes, kayaking, and social gatherings. Pretty much everyone else attending goes for the same reason - simply to be around others.
I'm disabled and can't work so I only have 2 places. Home and wherever else like buying groceries or shopping. Both cost lots of money and have minimal human contact. Thank God I don't drink alcohol anymore. That would put my life into a tail spin.
I have chronic illness and can no longer work, too. I get out for small errands 1-2 days a week.
I totally get it.
Yes, I’m so relieved that I don’t drink because I’d be miserable, too.
This conversation leads into the high rates of anxiety as well. Lack of eye contact and being around people is a large contributor to a lot of our social problems.
agreed.
At 58, if I am not at work or at home, I'm either at the gym or walking, alone, on some trail. I basically have zero social life, outside of online.
Hi Nicole, first time I've ever watched your videos.
I am 63 years old and work as a mental health therapist. I agree with the thoughts that you raise. Having worked with people in recovery, I would agree that a lack of third places leads to people feeling lonely, disconnected, and at risk for using.
My wife and I have a few third places: the library, thrift stores, book stores, and music stores (like Guitar Center, as we're both musicians).
We both have a deep well of memories of what life was like before screen time. I hope that this falls out of fashion. People need face to face time, connection, and a sense of being able to find community.
Ive been meeting my friends for walks rather than drinks or meals
My third place is church volunteering. Stops the boredom and gives me a feeling of accomplishment and purpose.
Church is boring
@@tonyp9313 From someone who was bored enough to leave a comment 😂 We have a great time. Hard to be bored when you have people to serve.
@@N3PRO-Dave I sat through church every Sunday when I was a kid. 1 hour of listening to a priest, standing & sitting down when you are told & just repeating things for 1 hour, is boring.
@@tonyp9313 So a poor experience when you were a kid equates to a stuck mindset in adulthood is sad.
@@N3PRO-Dave K I guess church was different for you then. For majority of people this is how church is like when you are a kid.
Blind Munchies was a late night deli that I loved going to after the bars and everything else was closed in the days before the internet and cell phones. I imagined creating a 24 hour coffee shop with a bookstore attached. I wanted it to be a place for live local musicians, comics and artists to share and explore with live audiences in a relaxed atmosphere. This would have been unique for my community in the day. Now, it could be once again. If only insomniacs would be interested in that instead of CZcams.
Watch this. Nicole is 100% correct.
The modern Third Place is TikTok and Instagram
Yep, everyone is glued to their phones. For some that's their 1 st place
Sadly, you are 100% correct.
Mine is CZcams
Yup. And it’s a total bummer.
They even call it the "modern public square"
This just made me cry honestly. What can be done about this tragic phenomenon...
Technology and the internet is making us robotic.
Speak for yourself, brother or sister.
@@Torgo1969 indeed. I have a great guild in my one online game where we do just shoot the shit and joke around and have a good time, as well as play the game lol.
Maybe now that everyone has been talking about the need for these places, people will be inspired to create them. The first step to solving a problem is identifying it
I dont have, I mean, I have never had many places to go in order to distract myself... I do yoga, meditation, I read books about a lot of different subjects, I stay at home most of the time, I cook my own meals, I dont have friends, I go to walk in the park... Or walking around neighbourhood, I like to learning English on CZcams, and I am pretty happy 😊.
What's your native language?
@@IanK369 My native language is portuguese.
Your English is excellect. Obviously your learning is working! For how long have you been learning?
......pretty happy. I'd say pretty lucky too.
@@alastairstaunton7081 I am learning English for about 12 years...
You made me realised that the supermarket (actually 2, since one carries stuff the other doesn't and vice versa) is the place where I spend most time outside. That's just sad.
Nothing sad about it.( unless maybe if you work in one).. Grocery stores if properly designed and run should be very visually appealing to you , if you go just when they open or in the early morning if you happen to have a 24 hour store, they can be very quiet places as well. Wonderfully lit especially if the morning sun is busting through the front windows.. just you , the occasional spray of the veggie misters, a shopping cart, maybe a current advertising circular , wandering a few of your favorite aisles, thinking "yeah that looks good for dinner", "Oooooh that's new, what's that?". Lots of older men wander the aisles of home improvement , hardware or auto parts stores and few think they are sad unless they happen to be the type of customer that "talks the ears off" the employees who are trying to stock the shelves and complete a task in some required timeframe... then they might make fun of em' behind their backs..
The more responsibilities we have in our lives the less time we have for social activities, thats the reality. As kids our parents run the household, but as adults we have this responsibility and managing your home is a job in itself. Cooking, cleaning, washing, grocery shopping, bill paying are all activities we have to deal with.
Great observations! I think you're spot on
Really great points.
In the 50-60's there were little grocery stores on nearly every other corner. Parents would often send their kids for this and that, so it was a social hub of sorts.
*sigh*
It'd be cool to have those little stores again, but it wouldn't work out in today's world, sadly.
I have one of those on my street corner! It's slightly more expensive than the big supermarkets but much more convenient and I enjoy chatting with the owner and other customers. If it were to close, it'd be a great shame.
How lucky! I'm jealous...lol.
The Internet and Social Media have killed the "Third Place". The digital world is not the physical world - killed the malls, eliminated physical contact, basic verbal conversation, small talk. In my volunteer work, I engage with upwards of 3-5000 people (all ages - kids and adults) per week - smiles, jokes, dance, play, educate, shake hands, fust bumps, hugs, talk - life. People are amazing and all you have to do is go out and engage with them - it starts with a simple "hello" or in my case, "Hiya' ".
Social Media is only a symptom, Hyper-capitalization is the main cause. Even if there are things to do offline, they are so expensive I can't afford it. $20 per person trips to the cinema were a thing before streaming. In the 90s "shopping as a pastime" was a thing. It's been a long time since there have been true third places for adults that were affordable.
@@gauloise6442 I feel like North America has it far worse when it comes to this. This is based on living in Europe the last 15+ years (lived in the US and Canada before) and also when I visited South America, people seemed to be have their third spaces.
@@maidenthe80sla Wow, that's quite a damning condemnation of an entire country of people. Have you ever asked yourself whether any part of your unhappiness might have something to do with you?
Car Dependent suburbs and malls killed downtowns and main streets post WWII
Nope. What killed the third place was suburban sprawl, zoning laws, TV and home AC, while social media opportunistically filled the void. Our post-modern world is a byproduct of Cold War era's policies by the technocrats that atomized the society out of irrational fear and simple greed.
That's a surprisingly interesting question (at least, I was surprised). I used to have tons of third spaces, too, but now...sitting in front of the computer or taking the occasional walk...that's about it.
Cheers to you for your research and your attention to detail! I just joined!