Big First Look - Armor Of Tons Of New Ships
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- A first look at the armor schemes of multiple new ships, including the amusing Illinois and the entire Pan-American tech tree line.
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0:00 USN Hybrid BBs
00:32 Tier VIII - Nebraska
01:13 Tier IX - Delaware
02:11 Tier X - Louisiana
04:03 Tier I - Pan-American Cruisers - Hercules
04:29 Tier IV - Córdoba
06:04 Tier V - La Argentina
07:09 Tier VI - Alte Cochrane
09:52 Tier VII - Coronel Bolognesi
11:29 Tier VIII - Ignacio Allende
18:28 Tier IX - Santander
21:50 Tier X - San Martin
34:22 Premiums - Tier IX BB - Illinois
45:28 Tier VIII CV - Colossus
51:20 Tier IX BB - Daisen - Hry
Yo, if someone gives me timestamps I'll add them to the video, it's a LONG one!
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Not sure if I should've marked the pepega armor schemes for Illinois and Colossus, but I did mark the Magic Button that first appears in Ignacio Allende.
Timestamps:
Nebraska - 0:34
Delaware - 1:18
Louisiana - 2:15
Hercules - 4:05
Cordoba - 4:34
La Argentina - 6:08
Alte Cochrane - 7:11
Cor. Bolognesi - 10:11
Ignacio Allende - 11:29
Discussing Experimental Ordnance Handling - 12:11
Santander - 18:29
San Martin - 21:49
Illinois - 34:22
Colossus - 45:30
Daisen - 51:19
@@theprinceofallsaiyans5830 ask real life physics, HMS Colossus R15 existed irl
Yo, Flamu. You cannot even fire torps in this thing because you lose a lot of manna :D
It has like 4 launchers. If we calculate that setting up a launcher is at least 2 seconds, and setting up for other side is another plus 3 because of turning. A full launch of torps is like 11 seconds. You lose half of your manna XD
Fun fact Flamu chat, the Illinois plans are REAL. Not quite the same model but it is a REAL design plan.
USN Hybrid BBs
00:32 Tier VIII - Nebraska
01:13 Tier IX - Delaware
02:11 Tier X - Louisiana
Pan-American Cruisers
04:03 Tier I - Hercules
04:29 Tier IV - Córdoba
06:04 Tier V - La Argentina
07:09 Tier VI - Alte Cochrane
09:52 Tier VII - Coronel Bolognesi
11:29 Tier VIII - Ignacio Allende
18:28 Tier IX - Santander
21:50 Tier X - San Martin
Premiums
34:22 Tier IX BB - Illinois
45:28 Tier VIII CV - Colossus
51:20 Tier IX BB - Daisen
Many thanks!
The Cordoba may actually be worse than the Omaha in terms of being deleted by everything.
It's also a tier lower. It's a Danae. Almost identical to the British one.
Not worse than yubari tho.
@@clankplusm Yubari is pretty good
Tier 10 Illinois will have 16 203mm Des Moines guns on a improved Iowa hull. With an underwater citadel. All fun and engaging game mechanics comrade...
Illinois isn't a tech tree ship, so there's no guarantee that they'll add BB-65 AA Conversion H (which was still on an Iowa hull btw).
Plus they nerfed the reload on the guns so they are half as good as dm guns
@@John_McCarthy1 I stand corrected. Yes it was on Iowa class hull. Silly me.
@@A_Man_Of_Culture_ so they’re buffalo guns, but with stinky battleship dispersion and good range that you wont be able to use thanks to the floaty american cruiser shells…
@@jammo7370 its dm guns with buffalo reload (that means it can citadell Montana close range btw.). Its also tanky af without a citadell (basically). Of course it doesn't have dm reload and dispersion...
Imagine the ultimate abomination: Georgia hull, Des Moines guns, and a flight deck
i hate georgia hull, its weak and easily get citadeled.... meanwhile my kearsarge showed broadside all day and barely get citadeled...
I'm sure the fact that these send me aircraft carrier ships are uncitadellable* is just coincidence.
*if uncitadellable wasn't a word before I think WG just made it one
Speaking more on WG consistency: Type 93 Mod 3's are the well known 12km 23k Alpha torps Yugumo can upgrade to and most Shima players will opt for. Now here they are at 20k Alpha doing 10km.
Daisen has me very intrigued. A beautiful, fairly balanced and fairly unique ship… and it has a citadel! That’s rare!
just play iwami
Everything that is IJN has somehow big citadel and gimmick in the name of toprs....
It’s iwami 2 without having an identity crisis. Feel bad for the poor saps scammed into spending their coal on iwami
@@jammo7370 That was almost me. Thankfully I was convinced to get Lutjens instead. Such a sad fate for an otherwise promising IJN secondary BB.
Very excited for Daisen, a proper Ijn battlecruiser, giga fast, (hopefully) nice guns, torps with hopefully decent firing angles. Seems like my kind of ship, hopefully she turns out to be good in practice.
As long as the guns are even somewhat reasonably accurate then it should be a solid ship.
Regarding Ignacio Allende: you need 50 hits (3400 dmg per AP shell) and by the time you destroyed approximately 2 cruisers, the Alt will proc. If you have a target available by then, you moved against 3 ships or more. Care to explain me how it will be alive when being shot at from 3 ships or more? (not even counting carriers or Subs)
so the network infrastructure can't handle more than 2cv but putting potentially 2cv, a bunch of these hybrid bbs, hybrid cruisers and Tromp in the same match is okay?
You can do 3 cvs per side in custom games. And you can fill custom game with Dutch cruisers and their airstrikes as well. Whenever they release.. full with hybrids as well.
Thanks for the updates, Flamu. I'm disappointed the Pan-Am line lost HE shells.
I genuinely love these types of videos. Flamu making some of his in-depth knowledge of the game accessible to people who might not know where to find it.
As pretty much everyone else said, Daisen looks very nice (really wanna see it in action)
Also got a laugh from Colossus' "citadel" XD (btw, AL players have to recongnize it thanks to Perseus aka aircraft maintenance-modified Colossus)
the crew has a contract with the captain to not bother working until he hits 50 shells then they work
daisen is straight up IJN Hood
I would think with all these ships.... they'd reduce all tier MM to -1/+1. There is really no point for -2/+2, anymore.
i am actually glad that tier 6 is the best in the entire line
i can get it in no time and call the day
thanks wegee
I like how Illinois can be a tier 9 BB with armor TOTAL legit citadel 12x203 guns who can fire AP+HE while San Martin is a tier 10 cruiser with 10x152 guns who can only fire AP.
Think about this… same Dpm basically as buffalo with insane armor… just doesn’t have the utility but it’s gonna be a selfish damage monster… u sit bow in and just lol people
The thing is the Illinois I guarantee you is going to be a dockyard ship so they can make a lot of money off of it
So if opponent wreck your turret.. you lose everything because you cant do full salvo?
Those pan american cruiser are something like that: someone looked at des moines and Salem, then thought "damn, just give Salem one more gimmick and she would be not only different line but different nation ship!"
Flamu, they did sink it down, Look at the bilge pump water ports. They are like 6 feet lower on the ship's side!
I wonder if the Daisen gets the UK BC treatment with the torps where after launch they curve.
Admiral Kartoffel gets the smart prize for today. weegee: get yer pre-sunk ships here!
Daisen turtleback angle looks like 50-55 degrees for the front arc and around 45-50 degrees on the rear arc.
I wonder why they gave the pan-american CLs 30 mm keel armour. Is this foreshadowing the addition of naval mines?
Mines would be interesting, WG did experiment with minefields in the Dunkirk Op.
If you are shooting at a target where the flight-time goes over the reload-time, arent you going to lose "mana" after each salvo?
You do realize that you can have multiple salvos in the air at the same time, right?
@@griffinfaulkner3514 Well... Thats a given, atleast in my mind... Argument still stands, you will still get a "mana-loss" whenever you engage a target for the first time thats longer than reload+traveltime.
This is still highly theorectical considering the range+velocity and perhaps the decision to have a flatter arc to combat this rather than by intentional design.
@@CBergerman You're still missing the goddamn point. So long as you're firing on reload, you shouldn't be bleeding charge, regardless of shell travel time. It's still a horrible mechanic with absolutely zero margin for error, but shell velocity has no impact on it unless you're switching from a close-range target to one one significantly further away. On the first salvo it doesn't matter because you have no charge to lose in the first place.
The Illinois we see in WoWs was a set of real designs the USN considered for Illinois and Kentucky IRL, in order to convert them into large Anti-Aircraft platforms. The 8” Auto loading guns are supposed to be dual purpose. Only glaring inaccurate thing is that she should have 5”/54s secondary’s like seen on Austin, instead of the older 5”/38s.
Does it explain why she sets lower in the water then her sister ship then? I mean, the 8 inch guns should be lighter in overall weight compared to what Iowa has, so Illinois shouldnt in theory be setting lower in the water
@@Danspy501st Surprisingly, Yes. The Quad 8” Auto Loading turrets along with everything else to make the auto-loaders work were actually expected to be heavier than the 16” triples turrets with their conventional loading. The Auto Loading mechanics used on the Des Moines were reliable, but really heavy for their size. When you look at the surviving documents of these plans, a common theme is actually the designs trying to save weight by removing funnels etc.
So if these turrets, along with the 3”AA gun and the lager radar tower were all added to a standard Iowa hull, like we see here, then Illinois would end up weighing noticeably more than her Sisters. Which is represented in game by her having more HP, being slower, (32.5 vs 33) and sitting lower in the water than her sister.
please someone give me a logical reason why you want to put dual-purpose guns on quad turrets, i mean it will obliterate a plane for sure, but i think it just makes it so much worse. i get it bc they had the iowa hull and tried to use it, but having 12 guns that can only fire at 3 targets at once is kinda stupid
@@bullreeves1109 For once WG is doing their research XD I just thought they would had been less in weight, so she would had sat at the same heigh at least, or would sit higher in the water. I had seen a video where someone talked about the storms and how it effected the ships, and US DDs in early war (Before Fletchers came out of the shipyards) would have alot of problems in those weather. The reason with all the guns and radars and so on, they became top heavy, there by alot unstable while low on fuel in deep water. I would imagine something like that for Illinois would be a problem too. But anyhow, she still look wrong in the game somehow. I know there was those plans, but Im too used to see Iowa ships as they are. So those 8 inch turrets just look wrong on her. I dont even recall if her hull was launched. I remember Kentucky was launched as to make room for BB-63 (I cant write her name sadly, but I remember her number)
@@Danspy501st Yeah, these plans were primarily made for Kentucky (BB-66) because she had already been launched unlike Illinois (BB-65). With the idea being for Kentucky to test these concepts with Illinois following with a improved design if successful. But WG seems to being saving Kentucky for something else .
WG found out that hybrid bbs with above water citadel are just damage pinatas so they balanced them with super citadels.
They're still damage pinatas because of the big tumor lmao
Daisen looks like super long and even taller than Fuso, i like it
I cit an anhalt with Malta but rarely cit light cruisers with good drops. My light cruisers get nuked from side drops
Daisen looks fun. Seems like a Kongo style BB which could be a nice break from ships like Izumo.
Wow's is destroyed.. with all these additions !
So according to my understanding of how the new mana recharge works, during the 30s you reload consumables 5 times faster. So in 30 seconds you will remove 30*5=150 seconds from the cooldown. Since the default cooldown is 180 that means if you proc the mana charge right your consumables will be ready in one minute. I can see it working for a true unicum with some serious zombie healing (if they don't get devstruck), but for the average potato it's going to be terribly bad.
Maybe it could be fun in operations?
Will the new US line also be immune to fires, have 60s DCP and auto ASW?
maybe they meant turret when they said salvo?
like if one shell from one turret hits the counter goes up
wait hold on, 6s of inactivity makes you lose progress...but your guns reload in 6 seconds....how does that work then? You lose progress if you don't instantly shoot? Or are you forced to fire your turrets individually to not lose progress?
in the previous iteration of the line it was only counted if you shot a full salvo (double-click). don't know how it works now
Yeah that thing will probably get some fixing later on because the way it works right now it's really bad.
Most of these above t4 are gonna get one shotted by that dev strike
Daisen interrest me a lot, I'm currious about this ship ^^
We hear your feedback and we've decided future ships will be sunk further in the water to help prevent artillery based citadels, we want the game to be fun for everyone including Timmy who only plays carriers
The slope angle of Daisen's turtleback is about 5 degrees worse than the German
54°~48° front part + 45° compare to German 60°
16mm citadel roof of USN hybrids can be overmatched by Henri 240mm upvards
Btw. if you want to remove camo .. you don't need to find it. Just select any other, and then unselect it.
Next PTR, Here comes the german wet dreams
A GK hull with 4x 203mm quadruple-gun turrets
And a tons of secondary
I’m still malding at Montana’s rudder shift
These Pan-american lights dont age like fine wine going up the tiers.They age like fucking mould...
You talk about getting citadel's? I talk about how much I can AP farm a ship before it dies!
illinois was written with caps lock on and they pressed shift for gun placement
kinda expected them to give the Illinois the Desmo radar too, just because ever since the CV-rework it seems, that they guy, who calls the shots at WeGee hates "classic dd play" from the bottom of his heart and has a vision of the game, that consists of BBs and CVs only, played by players, who cant't be bothered to look at armor layouts or penetration vallues, but happily spend money on every new premium.
Unfortunate, gouden leeuw cant pen louisiana deck armor with the airstrike
Didn't you know Flamu, that every September - November Wargaming pull a few gimmicks out of a hat and that what the next year worth of ships get, so 2023 ship will not have a Citadel for the pro gamer turners
That Colossus, though! A reminder that Citadels are supposed to contain enough buoyancy to keep the ship afloat even if the rest of the ship is flooded, and also contain as much of the vital machinery as possible. Which means boilers, generators, major magazines for shells/bombs, and more. That tiny box for a citadel in the Colossus is laughably small for a ship--nowhere near enough buoyancy, not nearly enough space for the boilers/engines/generators, and definitely not enough for the main magazines, either. They're not even pretending anymore.
"A reminder that Citadels are supposed to contain enough buoyancy to keep the ship afloat even if the rest of the ship is flooded" - Nope. The only place in history where that design philosophy was actually applied is the Iowa-class battleships. An aircraft-carrier, which wouldn't sit in the line of battle, wouldn't need anywhere near as much armour.
What are you doing step citadel ?
5:17
So, I had to compare the Iowa/Illinois armor scheme a bit more in-game, just to get a personal perspective.
I *think* it's just more 38mm plating than 32mm.
Keyword definitely "think", I could be wrong, but it looks EXACTLY the same, height-wise.
But the armor profile shows "less" hull showing. But I genuinely think that there's just more 38mm plating than 32mm plating.
So Illinois has, on top of "better" citadel protection, has better overall protection, at least against Yamato+ pens..
i don't get how the cit on the illinois is so low when ships like the mainz has a higher cit than the hipper because the guns are lighter making the ship float higher while the illinois has lighter guns with the same hull so in my opinion it should have a higher citadel because it should float higher in the water
With the Illinois, it had the same modifications as the Missouri, with reinforced athwartships bulkheads, and likely would have had rebuilt internal armor schemes to match the knowledge gained from war time service. I hate defending WeeGee, but they actually built a likely historically accurate representation of a "Flight II" Iowa class... but it breaks the game, so, one instance where realism kinda makes shit worse, sadly. Still, the 203s are hilariously out of place. It also shouldn't have the rounded bridge or the conning tower, but hey! It's WeeGee.
German destroyers are gonna cit that cvl incredibly easily
Shouldn't DP guns fire faster on a larger more stable platform like the Illinois where there is more room around the guns? And does the Illinois rip up planes? Those 203s where actually dual purpose as I recall, that would be funny if you could designate a turret to AA duty and just obliterate planes.
I wonder what the justification is, to have Illinois, a ship that's significantly lighter due the lack of three heavily armored 16 inch turrets, lower in the water than Iowa.
you could ripple fire your salvos instead of shooting the whole salvo at once to charge up the combat instructions easier without losing the progress
I think it says you have to salvo fire, not ripple fire
That doesn't change anything when something like Cv is attacking you and you *need* to run away. He'll do massive damage to you and you can't even activate your repairs fast enough before another ship attacks you to death.
@@Arisudev that's kind of applies to all ships, tbh. "but the cv could focus you and destroy you before you get a chance to do anything" isn't much of an argument against a particular ship if it applies to everything
@@illegalopinions4082 I'm pretty sure landing hits was the only requirement. I don't think it cares. but I could be wrong
@@malamutekid8871 well, the difference is you're dead in 30 seconds or 3 minutes with a chance to escape. There are other ships that also attack you and the difference in repair cooldown often decides life and death.
I had hopes when WG dissociated its western operations from Lesta, but it looks like the Lesta development crew just came over.
What are you doing, step-citadel??
Isn't it great that every new line added to the game breaks everything further...
When we get Illinois????
colorado is becoming the evoli of warships.
They said the Daisen is WW1 design but pay attention to details on the ship itself, it seems like it is a re-imagined warship as if the ship was modernized with ww2 technology.
You can see it has Japanese radars like Type 13 and Type 22 on the bridge and foremast which are 1940s technology.
It also has a crap ton of 25 mm guns, again these guns are from 1930s!
So to answer the people in chat, NO it will likely no be firing with WW1 shells, there is a reason why they add it at tier 9 and not tier 6 or 7 !
Just like the Kii and Amagi which are 1910s - 1920s designs but they reimagined as ''what if'' they were modernized in 1945 so they are not stuck with old shells !
rather play Iwami, much better protection and around the same firepower
@@jack8805
Iwami can be crazy fun but it doesnt do almost 40 knots and it also has lesser torps.
Im actually surprised that the Daisen is getting 32 mm plate unlike other battle cruisers which usually get the same plate thickness of a regular cruiser so at least it doesnt get overmatch by the majority of BB guns.
But then again, the more the merrier, as a IJN main i cant complain about more IJN ships..
Decent info in this...but there are two major gripes I have with your criticisms here:
1. "Dual-purpose guns with AP only?"
Ahem, Minotaur exists.
2. "OMG these new American BBs are uncitadellable!"
This is exactly the same armour scheme as Iowa, and I've never seen people complain that it's impossible to citadel Iowa.
Edit: looking more closely, it is almost the exact same scheme, but the new ships have their citadel very slightly lower than Iowa, so I guess that point is somewhat valid.
5:00 finally, at last. Omaha is no longer the worst armored cruiser in the game.
Oddly enough I felt Emerald was way squishier than my Omaha.
I hate the inconsistency in anything even with stuff in real life, it always bothers me.
For example the IJN DDs like Akatsuki 127 mm gun is dual-purpose but for some reason the Kagero despite using the same gun it can not shoot aircraft and then the Yugumo again using the same gun but it can shoot aircraft, like wtf is going on ?
And when i reporting this to them they then said that this was done to balance the ship ... ??? Yeah because giving the IJN DDs DP guns would absolutely broke the game because these guns that do 2 flanks will clear the whole sky ? I didn't even want to argue with them because of how stupid it was.
Agreed.
Weeb
FLAMU'S FIRST N LAST NAME WHEN?
what they shouldve done for the Illinois is put 6x3 turrets on, stacking the 8" barrels like the smolensk. As long as youre making up shit, make up cool shit
it's a real design though...
@@jack8805 is it? I've never seen a 4 barrel 8" turret for the Americans. especially in a spot where the Florida turrets would fit well
@@jack8805 but not wg design
czcams.com/video/u5hJ_S_xm-E/video.html this is the real design
Flamu actually says Louisiana like ppl from Louisiana say it
Isn't there the concept of effective thickness in this game?If a shell hits a ship at a more vertical angle then on that Colossus armour it will pass through more armour effectively than 19+19 so it may have a chance to arm.Isn't effective thickness of armour at play in Wows?
it is in play but we also have autobounce chance and angles so a 45 degree hit will autobounce off unless the shell overmatches the listed armour thickness (ignores autobounce due to shell calibre)
The USS Illinois was laid down as a Montana class ship before being scrapped, so… Why couldn’t they just make it a reward ship Montana varient?
AH so they added IJN CL line with no gimmicks and now this with every gimmick
We have been Rick rolled by WG: "never gonna cit you up"
The correct reason for ships with no citadels is to make them potato proof. How many times have you seen T10 ship players sailing around broadside even after repeatedly getting blapped. Their brains simply can't process angling.
Also, with the upcoming Dido vs Canarais event could you do a comparison of the two? Leaning towards Dido but also kinda intrigued by 203`s at low tiers.
Both ships are painfully bad.... The canarais shells are so slow you need to aim half a map ahead of your target, and it's ap only. The dido, has such low dpm you may as well just chuck insults, and the smoke lasts as long as a fart in the breeze.
Flamu, anytime you are confused about the consistency... remember that WG will default to "historical accuracy" and "it can be assumed."
lmao
Fun fact: Illinois is an abomination that happened to be a real design for the 2 uncompleted Iowas
Also, somewhat realistic Iowa armor (angled belt behind a thin plate and placement) on that thing but not Iowa itself? Not only is it unhealthy game design, but it's just a bit of a blatant "buy the new ship, it's better than the old one"
6:50 with that citadel looks like "La Argentina" is gonna explode like Gral. Belgrano at the first shot
And Talking about ARA Gral Belgrano, i bet WG didn't implemented into the game because they are going to milk it as a "prem ship"
Zao cries in the corner.
Long video?
Not even close to some of the stuff I watch, lol.
I don't mind at all. I enjoy them.
As usual, i will get the free ships in early access. But i don't plan to take the others.
I love to watch a Flamu video every few months.. just as im getting an itch to play again and this gives me all the information i need.. WeeGee are still hell bent on killing there own game...
Who's dented enough to play with these things?
What are you doing step-wargaming
The new line just looks like a worse pan Asia line due to the fact that torps are worse, range is probably similar, no he to take advantage of torps
Minimizing/removing citadels is just removing fun.
Ships DOA
So a Heavy Cruiser Guns were heavier than Iowa 406mm guns.
Where is Logic at this point. I swear WOWs slowly turns into Walmart Moba Games
The Average Player will never see the Magic Spells in action. LUL
You know, (Flamu) you get really pissed on special instructions (which are in the end kinda meh, i agree) being magic spell, but arent reload boosters essentially the same? Kleber magically getting twice as fast reload, Harugumo gets torps ready in few seconds and so on. Magic spell on demand if you think about it. And changing your consumables? Like DnD wizard changing prepared spells. My point is, it is nothing really new, just works in a bit different way.
WG is doing everything they can to kill this game.
I appreciate you continuing these reviews for those who want them. I like your content, but I haven't like WOWS for a while. I just let the video run with the volume muted because I want to support you and not hear about this game as I feel it's broken and unplayable.
t.y 🙏🙏
Santander describes how munch money wargaming will make from players buying free xp to skip it.
Daisen describes how overpriced that ship will be.
Idiot-proof ships are becoming the norm now.