Bob Katz - Loudness: War & Peace
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2011
- This 20 minute video takes you from the quiet beginnings of the Compact Disc in 1980 through to Loudness Peace by the year 2020. It includes demonstrations of the loudest master I have ever had to make and paints a picture of what the art of audio mastering will be like once the loudness war has been settled.
Bob Katz
Loudness: War & Peace
"the year 2020 will not be all peaches and cream", got one that right
The dynamic master feels so much more emotional, so much more expression.
It popped to my mind, maybe people dont have feelings anymore so they are not reacting.
If i find a feeling in a track, i just loop it with a warmth in my chest. Dont know if i did that with some recent music, i keep listening to 90s music.
Hey, it's 2020, and guess what? Most albums still measure DR6 or DR7, despite the fact that Spotify loudness normalization makes crushing the master to those levels absolutely pointless. I think old habits die hard - after all, the loudness wars have been raging for more than 25 years now.
Wow. I refuse to listen to DR6 or DR7.
Everyone seems to forget: (1) most people listen to music in noisy environments. (2) louder just plain sounds better to non-critical listeners. (3) people are trained when they're young to have expectations. Until the industry is ready to make two generations of consumers unhappy so that the youngest people can have their expectations set correctly, nothing will change. Sorry.
@@briancase6180 That's the problem - whilst you can normalise the average level of tracks, the softer passages in more dynamic material get lost in the background noise. Car stereos and streaming apps need a dynamic range compressor function, to make the audio uniformly loud (a bit like radio station processing). But they won't add it. Why? Because virtually all modern music is smashed to hell anyway! It's a chicken-and-egg scenario.
@@HandyAndyTechTips Ha, yes, the compressor function is missing because producers have done it already. This reminds me of the high-end Sony CD player I had in 1984: it had an integrated DSP, believe it or not. One function was a compressor that I used to listen to classical music in the office.... Wow, I forgot about that thing!
Interesting that the "worst I ever worked on" would now be considered quite moderate.
What is interesting is that what was presented here as an example of a highly compressed/limited master is actually very dynamic in comparison to a lot of other tracks on the market today!
As a rock musician myself, and a big fan of the grunge era, I'm actually pretty hopeful that what this videos says will probably happen by 2020 WILL happen!
It is the dynamics which make a piece of music, not the loudness!
I don't think Bob Katz would want to be responsible for such a terrible mix. That was the loudest he ever did.
Yep it's crazy, I was surprised to find that the 2 versions sound like different genres! One sounds like throw away teenie pop, the other comes across more as heartfelt singer song writer stuff. Good to know how much loudness/dynamics effect the perception of musical style!!
2020 now and cd's are at 105 DB's and have no soul. which is why electronic music has taken over and bass has replaced drums
@@mikelisteral7863 bass and sub have completely taken over. Lol if ppl could they could probably want to go even louder.
Thank you Bob! Lets work towards a more dynamic world
What about CZcams Adverts? THEY ARE KILLING ME WITH LOUDNESS every day!
+Ahtu Kaalikas Loudness started a long time ago with the TV stations when cutting to an ad break. The advertisers demanded that their ad be as loud as possible to grab the attention of the viewer. In order to avoid clipping the signal or over modulating, they employed dynamic range compression. Thankfully the FCC and the EBU have stepped in to regulate loudness and brought out new loudness measurement standards to bring loudness back to uniform levels. Sadly CZcams is not bound by these rules.
That's why I use adblocker here. It's a lousy situation for the content creators, but ohmygods I don't want to be scared to death multiple times every single day.
CZcams is lowering the volume of every content uploaded by users by around 6db peak off full scale so that they got headroom available to indeed push their ads above that.
Imagine Dragons - Radioactive is the perfect example of this.
If 2020 will be similar to 1980, I hope we see a lot of albums that are victims of the loudness war remastered to be dynamic and quieter. That would be a dream.
Some have been ;)
That is a dream, but a lot of that music is forever ruined because I don't think most people are up to remastering so much work. Not to mention all the masters that were ruined in the UMG fire... probably way more than Universal will ever admit to losing.
I’m here in 2020 and I’m sorry to tell you, you we’re wrong 😭
sadly true :(
music=called the soundtrack of life
One takes away the dynamics of music...
Thank you for a much better understanding of the current world around me
This is great. Nicely summarizes this part of the history of modern recording.
Great job of explaining this Bob!
Thank you Bob K. for putting it all (once again) into perspective and for defending precious dynamics, with air and space around the notes... like an artists painting - there needs to be negative space to compliment the subject. Best wishes to you - I've been reading your papers since the mid- 90's - I still have them. Tim Roberts
Bob speaks so clearly and precisely that i can understand him like i'm in elementary school. is it me or is this man a super communicator lol! its amazing.
This was a very well presented and informative video. Thank you.
That is really fantastic...bring the good sound back!
Thank You for this Fantastic Explanation!
I don't know why everyone today wants music to just be like a solid wall of sound. If I was a musician, I wouldn't want my music to be over-compressed, clipped & robbed of it's dynamics. If something you're listening to is too quiet, just turn up the volume! Compression is good for voice recording when it's needed to average out the level and peaks of the speakers' voice, But for music, only a bit of little compression is ok, as long as it's only just to soften the very loudest peaks a little bit so it doesn't clip.
yay for 2020!
i like the solid wall of sound, as long it's sounds good and not distorted!
how are you gonna hear a bass in a mix with very little compression then? Also the drums are gonna be all over the place. It'll just be a big mess.
@@leo.nordmann Listen to an old Steely Dan album like Aja. Very dynamic but it sounds great. So soothing to the ears.
You don't know why anyone wants that? I'll tell you why: the record companies want to sell something. It's not the artists, it's the producers and record companies trying to stay in business. Now, with self-distribution, we might see change. But: if you're a struggling artist self-distributing, do you think you're going to stand your ground and distribute a soft, dynamic release or are you going to do your best to stand out? Hmm? Don't imagine for a microsecond that loudness and compression and limiting are going away. Even with Spotify and the rest doing normalization, the louder you can sneak through, the better. And, people are still listening in noisy environments. People *enjoy* "that sound."
really informative, thanks for this little documentary
Beautifully put Sir!
I call it loudness panic, those that fear their songs wont sell if it doesn't match up to louder songs. One thing I do know, is that it's not the listener/customer who wants this, but those scaredy cats in the music biz, who panic over sales!
Awesome !
that's awesome! thanks a lot!
Great paper! Well explained. Thank you.
I recognized the song Bob on your War &Peace
This is a song I have automatically turned off when it was played.
I always wondered why!
The pre mix-master-release captured me, I had not heard that before.
I found your info very interesting as to what
over clipped Audio actually sounded like and which helped me to understand
why I react to audio such as that supplied.
Thank you
Steve Maitland
New Zealand
Great video thanks - hopefully sanity will eventually prevail.
Thankyou for a clear and concise explanation - I had always thought it was my ears getting woolier with age as my ability to determine higher frequencies began to diminish. Now I understand that it's the fault of the digital record & playback requirement.
Oh well - back to my tube amps and vinyl discs. Come back Phil Spector!
This is madness! We need dynamics!
Good info. Thanx for sharing! 😉
2020 will be a lot like 1980... not how we expected though
Just a minute. Loudness has been a goal in pop music since the 50s. I'm old enough to remember the hot singles of the 60s. Engineers pushed things hard so their clients' stuff sounded loudest in jukeboxes. I just re-listened to some Kinks singles and by God, they squashed the daylights out of their work; even my young uneducatad ears picked up on the analogue distortion and I loved it. Take another listen to 'Nutrocker' if you don't believe me. I think there's a lot of cant aound this topic.
Well now you get educated on what actually loudness does and the wrong Music Industry approach to the Music don't you?
@@atta1798 Can't you read a post properly??!? Dolt.
I think that there is another factor that helps us to come back to those years of the "dynamic range".
In these days, High Quality Sound Systems are more affordable to the normal people. This helps to feel in their own ears what "distortion" or "bad Mix or Mst" really is.
Another factor are tools to inform.
We are very lucky to count with an enormous amount of info and software tools that help us to transmit to these people, what "a bad sound" really is.
Again thanx for sharing.
Peace!
🤘🏼
Very enjoyable! A difficult position to be in, being a musical master chef and having to cook burgers!
I think you mean being forced to cook only burgers that are burned to a crisp.
great info.. thanks for sharing.. i also struggle mixing and mastering between loudness and aesthetics.. especially with mixes with too many musical elements.. i hope we go back to a more relaxed sounding mixes in future..
I've never heard that song, but apparently I've heard of the artist. Thanks for the information, too. :)
That Emily Hearn song caught my ear so I searched for it and found it on her website. Holy cow that thing is loud, you really can't tell just how loud it is through this CZcams video. I listen mostly to metal music, of which the modern stuff is already incredibly loud, and this somehow managed to be even louder when cranked to full volume. When a country pop song manages to be louder than the stuff I listen to, there's a problem.
Louder music should sound quieter at the same volume setting because it has to be recorded at a lower level to allow room for the peaks.
@@nightjaronthegate I'm not sure that's true, and I know you're wrong about the final master sounding quieter at the same volume. The music is compressed, limited and clipped to reduce the dynamic range. Then its overall amplitude is raised, making the average level (loudness) higher when played at the same volume. That's the whole point of the loudness wars - to make your song louder than other songs at the same volume.
I was saying that rather than worrying about making recordings sound loud via compression, people could just turn the volume up if they want it to be louder.
Watching this in 2020 now and thank god streaming services have loudness normalization now.
Its funny how the Engineers in developing the CD format to replace vinyl sought to increase the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio with 14 bit and then 16 bit audio and then the music producers of today have reduced it to little more than 1 or 2 bits. Bob Katz rightly points out the slow deterioration from the early 1980s where a technology that was originally designed to improve audio reproduction ended up destroying it by facilitating the loudness wars with dynamic range compression and other nefarious audio processing techniques.
+Killian O'Sullivan 1 or 2 bits ??? You`re bloody wrong. Nowadays music could be 12bits and nobody would hear any difference. That`s proven. Going lower would be telephone alike sound. But yes, those guys claimed that CD`s has wider DR, but hey, sometimes I just download goddamm vinyl-rip because it has twice as DR when compared to CD version. Perfect example is Black Sabbath`s last album. It`s a crying shame.
+Dalsir I dont understand your comment and can only assume that you misunderstood my point. You open by saying that I am 'bloody wrong' and then go on to validate my point by citing one of he worst and most narrow dynamic range CDs ever made.
As far as PSTN telephony goes, the main limiting factor ion audio quality s the bandwidth of the audio which is approximately 3KHz and that is not dependent on PCM bit depth but rather sampling rate. With PCM bit depth, each bit of resolution contributes around 6dB of dynamic range and S/N ratio. The Black Sabbath recording has almost no dynamic range and with noise shaping, you could probably PCM encode it into 2 bits. That was my main point, that CD allows incredible dynamic range to be recorded yet the loudness wars have meant that music producers went in the opposite direction resulting in less dynamic range than more carefully mastered vinyl.
+DamageIncM Too right! Most vinyl fans who extol the virtues of its sound quality are partly right but generally for the wrong reasons. Vinyl sounds great because the mastering has been done properly and without the loudness compression overdone. A good thought experiment would be to rip a good vinyl recording to a high quality CD recorder. The playback of the CD on a decent player should sound just like the original vinyl because of the accuracy with which CDs can store audio. Using a variant of Bill Clinton's famous words, "Its the mastering stupid".
Oasis' (What's the Story) Morning Glory?, The Stooges' Raw Power (1997 Remix & Remaster), Red Hot Chili Peppers' Californication, Rush's Vapor Trails, Black Sabbath's 13, Imagine Dragons' Night Visions, and Metallica's Death Magnetic are the great examples of victims of the Loudness War.
Don’t forget Death Angel’s “Humanicide”. What is supposed to be heavy thrash is compressed so much that it sounds weak and boring. The guitar basically lacks any bit of crunch and bite that metal guitar is supposed to have.
let it be known! the year 2020 will not be all Peaches & Cream. Bob Katz has spoken!
Many musical styles have been mutilated by the loudness war, including hard rock, heavy metal and more experimental styles that are typically loud by default even without applying compression/limiting/etc. I'm from the 90's, and listening to various bands, I came to the conclusion that overall, mastering reached its quality peak during 1995-2000. Great dynamics, great depth, all frequencies are in their place. Still, the dryness of the '70s is still my favorite for some artists.
Fascinating....thanks Bob, your helping save my favorite art form! Now who is the genius that can help us forensically rescue all those over compressed recordings in the past....expanders? Music rebalance type software? I dont think we are there yet in 2022. I hope someone solves this....I still cannot enjoyably listen to many of my favorite bands.
bob is right
LOUDNESS!
The single aspect is positive in that way that you still have the less squashed version on the album. Also, some respected artists (who understand about audio) are now doing quieter mixes, and some even without ANY peak limiting.
I see some light at the end of the tunnel.
OUCHHHHHH MY EARSSS!!!!!
I buy lps and tapes as well as 8 tracks and 1/4 reels. If its a cd.. its from the dollar bin and for thumping around in the car. I mostly play tapes in the car... and generally leave off the dolby so I can hear it breathe.
I hope very much that this becomes true!
thnks bro
Let's go back to the 80's please!!!! u.u
finally.. someone with sense who knows music will come back as a dynamic beast!! i hate that radio stations want my tracks to be super distorted and clipped just to get some radio play on local Wednesday.. i havent gotten any play because of this issue.. but everyone who works at the studio tell me my mixes sound awesome.. but i havent been really taught how to master without the process of destroying my track.. advice would be appreciated.
You're right, thanks! I'm done here :)
I hope we figure this out! I hate fatiguing albums. I guess to some extent we can vote with our wallets, and educate who we know.
I hope you're right about 2020 Bob, I really do
I remember recording records and Cds on tape. I would listen to the entire side or the whole CD and record it at the peaks. One of the most complicated to record to tape was the song Ba wit ti ba by Kid Rock. That was all in the reds.
It makes me happy to see many streaming services adopting the -14 LUFS standard for loudness :) YAY end of the loudness war!
Mr. Slate - Oh, how I wish this was actually so...
Not that I don’t agree with you that setting LUFS criteria for streaming, broadcast, etc., is a good thing - I absolutely do.
And as an engineer, I most certainly love preserving dynamics in the songs that I mix...
But the most recent trend that I’ve been hearing - and I’m curious if you have perhaps noticed this too - is that people are still mixing to ungodly HOT integrated LUFS levels; they’re still squashing the living crap out of their final mixes to reach lava-hot levels ... but then they simply adjust the overall LUFS level of that crush-limited final 2-mix to meet the LUFS criteria of whichever download, streaming or broadcast service that they’re sending it to.
So, yeah, technically, they’re meeting the criteria by delivering their song with a -14db LUFS level, (or -16, or -12, because they all vary a bit... in Europe, it’s -23db for broadcast) but at that point, it’s still nothing more than a lower LUFS level of a mix that’s already been previously crushed and distorted when they originally mixed it.
So, on one hand, services like Spotify, (or CZcams or iTunes, etc) implementing a criteria IS a good thing, because it sets a range that has a healthy level, but that still preserves dynamics -
On the other hand, if the original mix was shredded by uber-limiting, and then lowered to -14db after the fact, it’s still a distorted/shredded hot mess, regardless of at what playback volume level it’s listened to.
IMHO.
🙏😊
Lmao boy you was wrong 😂😂😂😂 everybody by pass it turn. It up
The loudest I've heard is Metallica's Death Magnetic. Most music I set to 20 on my car stereo. I have to dial it back to 15 for Death Magnetic to be the same volume. I don't mind loudness for most rock music so long as the whole thing doesnt have an audible fuzz to it. Dynamic range for more ambient stuff is a must
I don't hear any audible fuzz in Death Magnetic...
Dynamic range is even necessary for metal, assuming you want your drums to sound like drums and not flaccid, muddle background noise.
that thing is an atrocity, who in their right mind signed that off?
@@SwopCovers Go and listen to the guitar hero 3 version of death magnetic and see how it compares. They accidentally sent them the version before they did the hard compression.
Da !st Master waz good...mo definition
Thankfully, programmers have been able to achieve actual (within .02 db) limiting with digital audio lookahead for the past few years. This means there is no distortion, as no clipping is occurring, the limiter is actually reducing the level of the whole song when a transient peak comes in before it hits the master output. Dynamic range is still eaten up, but the distortion problem is solved. Personally, my genre is very defined by a modern, hard limited sound and I follow the industry standard of about 6 lufs in choruses. I still get punchy drums in breaks and quiet bridges by simply using my DAW to automate the gain going into my mastering chain, so I can pick and choose when I want loudness and when I do not.
Hope this brings up to date info to this commentary.
This video is used educationally, thank you for this update.
what is the trade off?...the quality of your sound becomes dull.....etc
I concur. There's something to be said about the purity of not passing through digital.
I MISS MY TABLES!
Ironically, I had to turn this video up in order to hear the narration. One needs to only look as far as stats for nerds to realize this audio is approx -22 int lufs. Translated, not loud enough. I love bob he's a great guy.
I listened to Bobs narration on my smartphone, heard it perfectly clear. I think youtube normalises the volume.
@@Oliver-ty7xu Stats for nerds= Volume / Normalized 100% / 100% (content loudness -8.0dB).
The -8.0dB is the culprit here.
As an accelerant, one could also mention radio and TV advertising along with heavy compression on the voices of DJs & announcers. That became really evident from 1990 onwards, I guess with the advent of more affordable tools. So music to be played on the same airways had to follow suit.
I'm in 2022 and I totally agree with that.
Hey Bob we are in 2020. Still dynamic range is suffering a lot. Now minimalism and bass heavy music is capturing the attention, COVID19 increased the home entertainment and Web surfing. Let's see what next year will bring to us in terms of loudness and music. I think that now loudness and distortion is becoming a part of entertainment and Non-Musician producers and Technicians.
A-STINKIN-MEN!!!! I always hate destroying the dynamic range and making my clients very creative productions sound like a compressed peice of crap!!!!! But what can you do when you hear "Make it louder please!" Bob, what a great video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on youtube! best!
I wish we could just go back to the day when mastering was simply a delicate, subtle process. I say that even though I enjoy all kinds of digital music such as EDM. Having a 5-star mixdown is far better than having any boosts in mastering with only a 4-star mixdown.
I too, liked the second and more dynamic master better.
Peak limiting in classical music!? You've got to be kidding me? The world is definitely coming to an end.
2020 is like nothing we have seen before.
Wow, don't understand how I offended you to such a point of animosity. Go easy my friend.
We'll need to get through the "Disintegrate" and "Vaporize" stages before things will get back to normal.
Yes. it's a fact that people are simply turning DOWN the volume knob when they listen to music that's too loud now
wat should be the frequecy spectrum for a 2trck before compression nd limitiing for a good desend loudness now we are using 30hz - 16khz is tht ok ?
I don't think compression or limiting on classical music is that bad... Imagine the scenario where you're driving in your car on the freeway, you can hear both the road and your car, so it's not totally dead quiet, and you're listening to Stravinsky's Firebird, or going from the quiet ending of the 3rd movement of Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony into the super loud beginning of the 4th movement. I'm really not trying to go deaf when I'm driving listening to classical music, a lil' compression to hear quiet passages and not always have to have my hand riding my volume knob through a whole symphony, in my opinion, would optimize a stereo mix of this sort of material. It's one thing to master a documentary recording of classical music for playback on a fancy Bryston tube amp and $5000+ speakers on a home set up in a beautiful room that has amazing acoustical treatment, but realistically mastering for good translation on as many speaker systems as possible seems like a good modern philosophy for mixing/mastering. Even if you see a classical symphony perform live the dynamics are totally different depending on how close you are to the stage due to the bass volume dip to distance ratio. The stereo representation should be about making it sound the best you can get it to sound as if you were in the best seat in the house.
That, in my opinion, should be a feature *in your stereo*, not in the album itself, because consider the other scenario: You're at home trying to enjoy your music, but the dynamic range has been compressed for car rides. Now nothing has any impact. Drums are not only the same volume as the guitars and the vocals, but every different _section_ of the drum is the same volume as every other section.
This destroys the dynamic and realistic sound of the whole experience.
I never really understood, why people voluntarily use compressors and limiters on their tracks - a dynamic compression process which always degrades the quality of the signal.
...
So, I kept mixing/mastering completely without dynamic compression nearly from the very beginning, after noticing that using compressors and limiters will worsen the sound quality.
...
And with EBU R 128 I've found a pretty sophisticated and prospective concept of loudness measurement and adjustment (created by very good audio engineers who wanted to do something useful against the annoying phenomenon of the "loudness war"), where I don't really have to care about the peaks in uncompressed audio signals.
...
There, each audio program (like a soundtrack or TV show) will be mixed/mastered at a loudness of -23 dB (it's something like the perceived average volume of the whole audio program, measured from the beginning to the end of the audio program).
And because of this low loudness level (which might be as half as loud as many modern productions) you never have to care about peaks shooting over the 0 dB mark.
In my soundtracks, which are mixed at EBU R 128 loudness standards, the peaks barely touch the -5 dB mark in the master track - so, I can concentrate much more on the creative parts of the composition and the sound design in my cozy home studio instead of being busy with annoying and pretty fatal sound chirugy in some kind of a batshit insane sound hospital or rather sound morgue).
...
And another good thing with the loudness regulation at EBU R 128 standards is the certitude of having no loudness jumps between different soundtracks or other audio programs.
So, every soundtrack - no matter which music genre (if it's classical stuff or pretty heavy metal and rock music) sounds similarly loud and so, you don't have to readjust the volume knob each time for every single track or any other audio programs.
As I have been a DJ for the past 30 years, I can tell you from MY point of view, that louder does make for a fuller and more 'even across the board' level of volume. Songs from years ago were at somewhat different levels, so if doing a prerecorded mix it's often necessary to even out the levels (gain) before mixing. For headphone listening of non dance, I prefer less compressed music, to me, it's more comfortable listening. Dance music is better 'loud', I'm not against it, it's dance!
your environment is different from Bob Katz' and a different monster......
I wonder how different things would have been if we had given consumers a loudness knob to do their own compression, and left the dynamics in the content.
+Norm Hurst There *has been* a loudness knob on home amplifiers for decades. The problem isn't much the absence of compression, the problem is, most home audios sound pretty awful. High quality home audios are way more enjoyable at low volume than lesser quality auddio systems, and they sound better with better dynamics. Not so much so with car radios and mediocre audios.
But with high quality headphones becoming ubiquitous (instead of the awful earbuds that came with the first iPhones), more and more people are now enjoying uncompressed music better, so there is a hope.
The point is that when a song is playing, and a song that is louder comes on, people "prefer" the louder version (temporarily) because the brain actually does hear more details in louder music. The problem is that you've destroyed your whole album just so your single is more ear-catching on the radio.
@@InXLsisDeo The loudness button on amplifiers is a tone control that boosts the bass and treble at low volume settings to make the music sound more like it does when it's louder.
Yes, actually I feel awesome. I felt good even when you thought I was wrong, but admittedly it feels better to see you admit it. There are enough assholes in the world who won't, so, yes, I do feel good. Thanks.
that first piece isn't my kind of genre, but I do hear that this compression creates a totally different ambiance, changing the genre of the track - they sound as two different songs, i'd say !
The idea behind this method is so that low quality speakers can play the music and it can still be audible. Otherwise, all you would hear at a club would be the bass every other second.
It's 2020 now. I find this very interesting. Will you make a follow-up video?
I've noticed that better DR leads to a better sound stage in music (track separation for those of you who don't know).
well... watching this in 2020... I wish your predictions were right. Unfortunately the "loudness wars" have took over and it is very hard to find well recorded/mastered music. I used to have a favorite genre.. but now I just try to listen to well recorded music... whether I like the song or not.
my definition of sounds good is:
listen. if there are peaks AND troughs that are just loud enough, it's good. on an airplane, it is only compressed to overpower cabin engine noise. on ground, it's only compressed to make the troughs audible.
So when Mastering Audio in 2013, what is a good "Average" RMS level? I have heard (and can tolerate) -10 dB, but personally prefer about -12dB. I often use -20 for the really open material such as a piano or acoustic guitar and vocal which I guess makes sense given the Acoustic Advantage concept. This was a great explanation of how we got to where we are with the Loudness Wars. And not mentioned is that Radio Stations further compress already loud content resulting in annoying!
video from 2020 -"do you remember sound from 2010? - that was strong, to day everything is bad" ))
Actually, not everything today is bad. Uptown Funk is just one example of music with high dynamic range.
It's really cool watching this now, after Apple started iTunes Radio. Now, artists will have to adhere to some guidelines or their music will sound bad.
I really like your video and I want to say thanks all you say it's what I think I mean if I play a guitar and do not apply the emotion range it's like hitting something with no art because music is art no just loud it's like a paint artist that will paint everything at the same level if there is no soft parts of the shadow or those little things that make the art interesting i compare that to music I don't know if u know what I mean
loud
thanks illangelo
2012 might get interesting as some european national broadcasters (like ORF in Austria, ARD in Germany) will pick up the ebu-r128 recommendation. It's loudness normalization will allow 23dB of headroom.
I believe true change for the music industry will only happen when media players and online distributers pick up this trend as well.
Really interesting. Next topic mp3 versus wav ;)
The iPod was released in October 2001, not during the "Grunge" period as you say.
Yeah, this confused me as well.
@@amaze2n Same for me. Plus some of the first grunge albums, like Pearl Jam's Ten or Apple by Mother love bone sure were loud, but they did not sound bad and had decent dynamic range, around 10db for Ten, and up to 17db for Apple!
Except grunge was still on people's play lists.
@mreisigl It's pretty wild where the industry is heading. Once the labels say it's so, it's only a matter of time before the other outlets (internet, streaming media, etc.) "have" to meet the new standard.
Now we are in 2021, unfortunately things are not going to the direction montionned in the video...
2020, not quite there yet
Loudness is why I don't listen to 90% of "new" music recorder after the late 90's
@dudestube That's awesome! It's sad but it's true
I'm not sure what you mean by Grunge and Alt rock coming after ipods? Those forms of music came around 1990 and the recordings are not overly compressed in most cases. The distortion was intentionally added through effects. Listen to Nevermind it has tremendoeus dynamic range Butch Vig did a great job.
Don't lump me in that 20-something generation. DR is important and even Death/Black Metal can be dynamic.
This is one of the only videos that mentions crest factor. This very important concept appears to be misunderstood or more correctly not understood. It's the whole ballgame. All the saturation, distortion, compression, clipping, and limiting is for the sole purpose of reducing crest factor. When you get it to zero, you have, basically, a "musical" scream. That's what these over-loud releases are: a three-and-a-half-minute musical scream.
Why do you recommend us to set the sound card to 48kHz? CZcams videos are at 44.1 kHz sample rate, no matter whether you created your video at any different sample rate.