PRR J1's and Santa Fe 2-10-4's at Sandusky, Ohio (1956)
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2010
- Video of Sandusky, OH in the summer of 1956 when Pennsy leased Santa Fe 2-10-4 engines to help with a surge in traffic. This is a really great video with lots of great scenes of both of these engine types.
Footage from "Steam and Diesel on the PRR. Vol. II" by Herron Rail Video
www.herronrail.com/ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
My dad was a fireman on the Pittsburgh Division from 1950 - 1954. His stories of the J 1 locomotives were in part what made the J my all time favorite Pennsylvania Railroad steam locomotive. By the way, I was three years old when I ran my first diesel locomotive on the hump yard at Shire Oaks just outside of Pittsburgh.
My you started earlier than most 🤔🤣
Mark, did anyone get a picture of you in the drivers seat?
When the Sante Fe "Texas' were in use on the Sundusky Branch I was up into the 5011. They were well ballanced and well timed high speed and pullers not offered in any other 2-10-4. I loved those memories.
The opening shot blew my mind. Two huge steam engines, lurking on a siding. Such huge macines with simple steam generated power. Unbelievable but true.
Great video!
Thank you.
P.j.signs Carpinteria Ca
A big treat! I remember watching these PRR and AT&SF 2-10-4s, single- and double-headed, passing near my boyhood home in Columbus on their way to Sandusky with long coal drags. What a surprise in 1956 to suddenly see Santa Fe engines on the Pennsy!
All of the sounds I added to this video were recorded by Don Krofta's friend Jim Hawk at the time Don was shooting the film. They are accurate for the locomotives you see. Buy the DVD and you'll find a lot more PRR action. Also, I'm sorry to report that Don Krofta passed away in February, 2011. His great films live on in the 16 DVD's we've released of his films on PRR, NYC, NKP, B&O, Western diesels with more to come in the future. -J R Herron, Herron Rail Video.
What is name of the music in the beginning?
3:22 that bell spin though
where?
That bell spinning? lol i noticed that too on the DVD. got a laugh out of me
You spin me right round baby
On Santa Fe 5035
for the silent movie era.
That very last part, that whistle, holy crap that gives me chills!!
This is great stuff! 5 star rating for sure. PRR's passenger and J1 locomotive whistle pitch is among the most haunting of all. Thanks for posting what turned out to be the last hurrah for the AT&SF 5000s.
Here I am..in May 2021..in England..I have a ho J1 with all the sounds..got it about 8 years ago off a guy in our club.I also have Pennsy cds plus others.
I watch this most days...what amazing scenes..I suppose none of these tracks still exist?..Wonderful stuff...passing thru Tiffin...David.
Actually David, most of these tracks do survive as the main lines of Norfolk Southern today. The coal dock [as referred to in the video] is still standing north of Marion, Ohio. However it's long since been decommissioned.
The PRR mainline in the closing shot is now operated by the Seneca County Port Authority and connects with CSX Transportation in Woodville, Ohio.
Mr . D we can always expect the best in videos from you ... Thanks for the memories.
I love the Atsf rr 5011 class 2-10-4 locomotives & this is excellent footage of their final days of operation. The class 5011's are my favorite type of Santa Fe rr steam locomotives along with their 2900/ 3776 class 4-8-4 types.
East meets west. What a cool and unique set of clips. Quite the rare capture.
I subscribed to this channel is because it shows my favorite steam locomotives that I want to restore and put back into service.
Awesome machines , the ATSF 5011 class locomotives are favorites of mine.
Same
those engine's were massive, my compliments sir
Great clip. Brings back memories of steam😎
Awesome video. I had the fortune to ride this behind n&w j 611.
I always loved AT&SF steam. I'm so glad that AT&SF saved 5 of their 2-10-4s!
They did?
@@Nr2003Guy One is in St Louis, Dallas, Houston, Albuquerque. The prototype 5000 "Madam Queen" is in Amarillo.
@@MP339RV yes I should have said Palestine east of Waco south of Dallas
I hope they restore one to running condition.
5021 is back as well.
Magnificent steam engines. Thank you. 5*
Wonderful film...I was 4 or 5 at the time, never saw this live.. I always thought steam power had phased out long before the 50's..anyway , it's good to see some RRs keeping the steam alive -- even if just for excursions.
Cool seeing my hometown of Bucyrus as well as other locations on the Sandusky line as well as Tiffin, where I went to college.
@pbmja Good to hear that about Don-I hope he's still doing well. I remember reading a very interesting article in Trains mag as a youngster 30 yrs ago by him about the NYC top trains detouring thru his hometown of (I believe) Fremont. I also loved his still photos of the NYC passing through Fremont that I just loved, & his comments & observations. (I still have the link somewhere!) I feel he was 1 of the 1st hard core railfans. Please pass on my best to him from Mitch in Massillon OH.
I was a frustrated Penny fan in 1956. Pennsy dieselized Chicago in 1952. I was too young to travel that far at the time while reading about all kinds of Pennsy steam activity a few hundred miles away. The Pennsy trains stopped at the signal behind my house in Englewood waiting to cross the Rock Island.
Fantastic video.
Wow love the locations! I have filmed trains at many of these spots.
I like the music. Its seems sad and forlorn that this were the last days of steam, captured forever by Don on film.
It reminds me of an early 1990s Lifetime channel flick
5021 is no longer in New Mexico and has not been since at least 1984. the locomotive now resides at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, California.
The J-1's and 5001 class Santa Fe were some of greatest steamers ever built. I sure wish they would restore and run the one at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania
The railroad musuem of Pennsylvania has no operating locomotives and there’s no J1s in existence
The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has neither a J1 or a 5000 class. Regarding restoration to operation, the same reason we won't see 1223 and 7001 or 460 or even 6755 running is because the Pennsylvania state that owns the collection wants to keep their material as it originally was, in blueprint specs. Restorations would require their boilers to be altered, which in turn keeps them away from their "original" material condition.
Maybe one day a new one will be built from scratch. They are building a new T-1 4-4-4-4 duplex from the ground up, so you never know.
It’s possible that all of the Pennsylvania J1’s were scrapped but however there are rumors that there is one of them still in existence which is No. 6435 but this hasn’t been confirmed. It’s possible again that all of them were scrapped but if there is at least one that still survives I think it would be awesome!!
The 5001s I believe survived
😮 no way dude seriously whoa man awesome you know I used to have a great great great grandfather that used to work for the railroad of union pacific and I don't know what happened to him I sure miss him so much 😊
Cool, there is a way to tie my SF and PRR together on my layout and that's 1950s Ohio.
Amazing!
Does anyone know what the classicla music piece is that is used throughout this video? It's used at length when they are showing a J-1 and a Texas tpye early in the video? Thanks
Great American. Railroading!!!! Without a doubt America had,has the best Trains in the world!!! The biggest baddest.coolest Steam Locomotives&Diesel Locomotives and the same goes for our Passenger cars & Freight Cars and our great hardworking dedicated Locomotive Engineers and Firemen,Brakeman Conducters,Switchmen,Towermen,Car Inspectors,Passenger car Porters Ticket Agents, Dispatchers and. Track Gangs in History and in the World....God bless them all!!!!......RP
Steam engine controls were pretty much common in later USA practice. Throttles were either overhead vertical lever or horizontal pull-back. Power reverse levers were pretty much universal, as were engine and train brake controls. Boiler pressure and other gages could be in different locations, but all steam engines pretty much had the same ones, so it was just a matter of where they were on a particular engine - no big deal.
I doubt the Pennsy crews had much trouble adapting to oil firing.
😮 no way dude seriously whoa man awesome you know I used to have a great great great grandfather that used to work for the railroad of union pacific and I don't know what happened to him I sure miss him so much
All of The Pennsylvania J1s were gone by the end of 1959, 5 Santa Fe 2-10-4s preserved.
Yes 5 have been preserved but none in operational status. #5034 should be readied for the road once more along with her companion 4-8-4 #2925. Santa Fe was always Proud of their Steamers. Santa Fe Lives Forever!
5 Santa Fe 2-10-4s preserved.
5021 is in Sacremento. 5034 was scrapped.
Yes, #5021 was saved from scrapyard and #5034 was scrapped in 1959.
cool stuff!
I bought this from the SEPTA gift shop not too long ago. highly recommend it! its a shame all the J1s were scrapped.
Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions there maybe hope there's big rumors that there is one j1 that was never recorded for scrap
WildTexan Engineer
man alive that would be a coup de grace for engineering.
next poser, precisely WHERE could something that big be stashed?, not likely she'd be tucked away in a barn someplace.
Bill Porter acccording to the Internet its buried near Pittsburgh
WildTexan Engineer is that so? are you sure there could be 1 left? if you are correct then I must board a Pennsylvanian and find out myself
the basic information you need to know about this J1 that it wasn't recroded on the list of scrapped PRR engines and its buried next to the pitcarin yard on the pittsburgh divison
I drove by the coal & water resupply almost weekly when I was in US Air Force at Rickenbacker AFB Ohio. My home of record was Toledo. How does the coal get up to the supply stop? My grand Father was Stanley Yards master from 1900's to 1959. Love the steam engines.
Im 55 years old and when I was around 3 or 4 years old my mom would walk me and my little brother to the railroad tracks and the street we lived on to be waiting for my moms uncle driving his steam locomotive and we all would be waving to each other and I loved the old swinging railcrossing ding ding ding with one red blinking light in the middle.before they came up with the crossing gates you see today
Those engineers has nerves and balls of steel.
Is that 'dcoursey' as in the L&N Decoursey, KY yard near Latonia and Covington?
The PRR J-1 was an awesome locomotive. Sort of the opposite of the "Super Power"concept- these had smaller drivers, designed to develop maximum horsepower at average track speeds for freight. And the booster engine in the trailing truck gave an extra 15,000 pounds of starting TE, bringing the total to 110,000 pounds. UP's 844 (a Super Power 4-8-4 Northern) only has a TE of 63,750 with her 80" drivers, and is 300,000 pounds heavier. Decapods rule!
Mark Stockman They had 69 inch drivers which were pretty standard on super power locomotives that pulled freight. It's a good balance for a locomotive that needs to move fast but also haul a heavy train.
J1’s were developed using a superpower design, not at all accurate to your statement
Sadly, because the PRR borrowed the basic design from the C&O by wartime necessity, and so considered it not a true Pennsy engine. NONE were saved! What a narrow-minded attitude considering what a monumental job the J1 did for that railroad.
The Bessemer and Lake Erie 2-10-4's were pretty mean machines too... weren't terribly fast, but they literally built America.
One of my favorite vids, had no idea Santa Fe was hired to help PRR move freight back in the day.
The Santa Fe was heavily into diesels by this time and the 5000s were pretty much surplus power, so they leased the engines to the Pennsy for filler power until the new diesels were on the Pennsy.
@@frankwurth5375
really???... i did wonder what the circumstances were surrounding ATSF pooling power in 1956... especially since it wasn't common practice for the railroads to do that back then like they do today
nice cab footage of a J1. Those locomotives had more potential if the steam era didn't end so early.
Got anymore videos of ATSF or UP or SP steam from Herron Rail?
certified BANGER
well, to quote der Trump
" it's huuuuge!", finishing up a dissection of a local hero here in Tulsa, those big ol' pennsy engines always looked neat with the drop coupler, the overall largesse, and the lowrider tender, I gotta get the full CD so I can stop and look closely
if you look closely and listen a few times..some of the sounds are dubbed
wow, cool..I live in Sandusky..
Красивые паровозы! Восхищаюсь мощью!
donld is still alive i talk to him 2 or 3 times a year he was the master
@CORKYANDERSON The music is only occasional. Buy the DVD and get the entire show.
What a treasure.
A couple of things I just noticed. At 1:08 showing the passing of AT&SF 5018, it is evident she's just taken on water, see her tender tank sweating in the warm summer air? At 6:33 where PRR 6488 is pulling away from the coal dock, watch the movement of the crosshead in the crosshead guide. Lots of up and down movement (slop) there.
Super fajna na owe czasy
All sound is dubbed for early film. Audio was recorded separately. Could they still be authentic.
Excellent, thanks for sharing this. Everyone may be interested in checking out the slides of John Dziobko, Jr., that I scanned and uploaded to his site godfatherrails.com and also to railpictures.net Of special interest are the group of slides of John's, from August of 1956 at Columbus. He and his friend Bill Rosenberg, both of the NYC area and in their 20's, went west to Columbus to look for steam as they knew the area was still rife with PRR steam activity. When they got there the friendly PRR workers at the St. Clair Ave. roundhouse told them it was unfortunate they weren't a week later, as at that time they'd be firing up the last two of the SF steamers, #5034 and #5035, both seen in this video. John and his friend went on to railfan in Chicago and the Detroit/Windsor area, then returned to Columbus where they exposed a bunch of Kodachrome film as these engines were serviced. So check those photos out and, it was really great seeing the 5034 in action here. I was trying to read the numbers on the J runby shot, as I also processed a photo of John's shot that week of PRR 6490 at the coal dock in Columbus, being readied for one of these Sandusky coal runs. Thanks again for sharing this.
If you have Direct TV go to the RFD channel they have a show called Train & Locomotives it comes on every Monday at 6:00pm, they have shown this one already and I always record every episode.
That's a great video, I still think Pennsylvania has the best looking tenders
Awesome Don Krofta videos and Ray Herron production! Does anyone know the classical tune used as background music from the beginning of this clip through the 58 second mark? I spoke with Ray Herron, he edited it, but it was years ago, he didn't recall. All help will be appreciated!
It is strange that the prototype 5000 Texas type was never photographed yet ran 1.7 million miles across the plains for over 20 years.
Um, are you sure about that chief? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-10-4#/media/File:ATSF_5000_Madam_Queen.jpg. That is just one of many photos out there they aren't that hard to find.
Awesome and Classic! 5*****!
Terrific!! I've watched this many times-so enjoyable. Jus a question: why did the tenders on many Pennsy engines have such small wheels? Was that to accommodate a larger capacity tank? Greetings form Australia. :-)
AS PART OF LOCOMOTIVE DESIGN, IT WAS AN AXLE LOADING ISSUE
DIFFERENT RAILROADS HAD THEIR OWN AXLE LOAD LIMIT!!
@@rossbryan6102 Thanks. I see now. Smaller wheels and more of them. spreading the load. :-)
Just if these videos had real audio from that recording.
Few years before me. I was born in 65. By the time I came along most of the fire breathing iron dragons were asleep or out to pasture. Very few survived. And all the streetcars went away and got replaced by stinky busses. That happened during my childhood. I saw some of it happening. The B&O mainline ran right past my aunt and uncle's house. I used to watch the trains go by. I went on the American Freedom Train in 76. Nothing is how it used to be anymore. They tore down the old neighborhoods and replaced them with yuppified townhouses and strip malls. Gentrification. They call it progress. I call it disgusting.
I may be an early 2000's kid but i agree.
My favorite steam locomotive was the N&W Y6 pusher
Actually..the Loco number on my J1 is
6418..the same loco number on one of the shots in the film.The one where the loco is leaving the coal Dock.
What is the name of the music in the beginning?
ilove these giants iwas only 3 years old when they where incolumbus
Silly Question : Just what is that little shack at the rear of the Tender for?
On some locomotives, the brakeman would sit in the "doghouse" and keep an eye out for trouble on the train.
and before the air brakes came along run down the tops of the cars when the engineer gave the whistle signal to set or release the brakes NOT my idea of a good job. just think your in an ice storm what is the cat walk going to look like
Sound must be from something else because at 2:50 you see it go over a diamond but there is no noise...
What does the Santa Fe 2-10-4's have to do with the B&O?
Anyone know the name of the song?
Sandusky Ohio is where Cedar Point is located
in heaven there is still steam-traffic!
My favorite Santa Fe steam locomotive is the number 5018 and also 5020
Who is Don who was mentioned near the end?
I wonder if these tracks were removed...
No, they sold the line to N&W in 1964. It's still there today and in heavy use.
I would totally wish the Pennsylvania railroad j1 2-10-4 would have been preserved because I like the design and of course the j1 would have been a perfect sole survivor and I though a place that the j1 would be displayed at the railroad museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg Pennsylvania
Well there was a couple attempts of saving a prr j1 from a few stories i heard and supposedly we have one buried under a active NS mainline since 6435 wasn’t on the list to be sold or scrapped.
The 3751 had that problem until they put on the Y wings on the bell top to stop it.
How in the heck did the rails hold these monsters! Out BH.
That Santa Fe 2-10-4 5011 Texas steam locomotive number 5018 that's my favorite train
Is this an excerpt from "Indian Summer of Steam?"
The AT&SF didn't run trains into Sandusky, OH. The PRR leased a few 2-10-4s from the AT&SF to handle the unexpected spike in freight traffic in the area. It was cheaper than bringing their own steamers back into service and the 2-10-4s of the AT&SF were comparable to the J-1s in tractive effort.
Thanks for that explanation. I wondered why Santa Fe was in OH. Lol.
I was thinking the same thing. I was used to them being on the now BNSF Transcon on the Abo Canyon between Oklahoma and New Mexico
Now this is better than Cedar point
St. Louis has the Arch, NYC has the Statue of Liberty, D.C. has The Washington Monument that's another landmark, and to me Cedar Point is not only a theme park but a Landmark in Sandusky because It's known as the roller Coaster Capital of the World.
Fascinating I had no idea foreign power traveled that far from its territory back then.
+Charles Kesner I wonder what type of pooling agreements they had back then. I'm certain they had to be similar if not the exact same as pooling agreements today.
I lived near the Grand Trunk Western during 50's and 60's never witnessed it. Also grand parents lived near Western Maryland and B&O. Again in the 50's and 60' never witnessed it. Now I am curious.
what I would wish that the prr s1,s2,J1,q1,q2,and T1 would be hauling freight and passenger in 2017, won't that be nice?
MetraFanIllinoisBoy 777 true
Flipping bell 🔔 hahahaha XD 3:22
some of them were made that way
Every time it's in Sandusky, I'm thinking Cedar Point
Pennsy 6435 might be buried somewhere in a yard in Pennsylvania no record of that engine was identified as scrap
i think the j1's were the most impressive non articulated engines ever built!
Mechanically, the PRR J1's were identical to the C&O's T-1 class 2-10-4s. In 1958 most of them were gone with only 25 of the remaining. They would hang on for another years before being scrapped in 1959. It's just such a shame that non made to preservation.
No Kevin. The 9000 class was impressive in power for the Union Pacific. The 9000 class was impressive because of its wheel arrangement. Its wheels were in a arrangement that is 4-12-2. Wich was impressive!
The Santa Fe 210 4S were my favorite Santa Fe steam locomotive. I have an issue of trains magazine with a whole thing on the Santa Fe 210 4S. It said in the magazine that the Pennsylvania Railroad Cruise preferred the Santa Fe 210 4S over the j1's saying that they rode better. Such a sin that all of those engines with serviceable Decades of life left in them were scrapped. Along with them a whole way of life and a slew of prosperous jobs a slice of America dead.
The different version of the Santa Fe steam locomotive number 5020 like Santa Fe number 5018 has a short smokestack maybe the rest of all the Santa Fe 2-10-4 steam locomotives can have a short smokestack and probably those other Santa Fe steam locomotives like the 3700s 2700s 3400s and the 3800s with all the rest of the Santa Fe steam locomotives too cause would be totally awesome man sweet and wicked cool dude
Were the AT&SF locos oil or coal fired?
the AT&SF locos are oil fired
sclm046 oil fired
Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions Engines 5000-5035.
Too bad none of those J1s were saved. Those are easily my favorite Pennsy steamers after the T1s.
It surprises me they didn't save a T1..
I assume the J1 wasn’t a candidate for preservation because it wasn’t PRR’s original built locomotive.
I've wondered what that clunking sound is when some engines are idling. 0:36-0:44
Pretty sure it's the air compressors for the brakes pumping back up.
It could be the stoker engine.
Alex Paumen..... What you're hearing is the steam operated Air Pumps which keep the air tanks up to pressure.... same as the diesels have today, in locomotives and semis, except that the locomotives today have much larger and more efficient pumps... usually are 3 cylinder, semi-radial design.
3:24 You spin me right round baby, right round...
0:52, I don't know if this is a sign to all of you that the locomotive is a living beast, but to me it sounded like it just snorted like a horse.
0:52
I hope the 2-10-4 Steam Engines will be restored and returned to service.
David Reyz.... There are 5 of AT&SF 5000's that are cosmetically restored.. none are operational..... and ALL of the PRR's J1's were scrapped between 1958 & 1959..... Most Unfortunately!
Honestly, I prefer the Pennsylvania Railroad 3 chimes over the Hancock 3 chimes. The PRR 3 chime quill just has that musical touch to it that the Hancock doesn’t normally provide unless it’s on a Union Pacific FEF Northern or a Northern Pacific Z class challenger like what Southern Pacific 4449 used to wear before it wore out and was eventually replaced by another Hancock which was original to the GS-3 Daylights. The PRR 3 chime is a more pleasant whistle in my experience than say the Hancock which is just a little too deep. The only time I would go deeper is if I were looking for a hooter.
Same, in fact, the Pennsy 3 Chime is my favorite whistle.