SSD Killer? We Tested Chia Cryptocurrency Farming for one Week
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
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The next coin will use "Proof of Bandwidth" RIP Internet.
That ... ugh. Let's not. Please?!
There are already some sorts of that
First it was thrashing cpus and gpus to death. Now its thrashing SSDs. Its only natural that something else left largely unitilised most of the time is "leveraged" in the next crypto insanity
It is already is!!!
Nah I want RGB coin, proof of color and lumen. Or FanCoin, proof of rpm and airflow
Farming ... Mining ... Sounds more like Chia loot boxes, though your Lottery Ticket analogy is very appropriate!
@Tamamo hella worth it!
@Tamamo lmao
If you mining anything is lottery
Can someone tell any videos , cuz I'm new in this mining thing and i just don't want to work .
Please
@Tamamo e
Yeah let's ruin the SSD and HDD market as well... :(
It already is ruined... have you checked recent price charts of high-capacity drives and SSDs? It's going through the roof. It will only get worse as stocks dry out everywhere
And memory.
Better than wasting 1000's of watts on GPU's
@Tamamo Why would you upgrade an ssd at all? There is no reason to. 512/1tb ssds will be the standard for many more years, if you need storage you would still go for an hdd.
@@StaelTek it's still tons of power, but instead of a single motherboard and CPU with 3-4 GPU's driving 1000W, we'll see four systems with four 24 or 32 core CPU's, 32 SSD's and 1000W+ of power consumption. At least the 1080s and 1080ti's from the bitcoin boom actually still have use and value when the bust came, chia is going to leave untold numbers of SSD's that can't even find a secondary life because they are a consumable, they will be instant e-waste.
I think the key words are 'So far I haven't earned a dollar on Chia farming' *looks back at 5000 dollar rig
I to spent 5000 dollars on Chia and have earned 0 Chia so far, although i will earn a lot when pooling rolls out this month.
Owch
@@TheGanemi If anything the hard drives will hold their value better then GPU's. If ETH dies then those a room full of 5 year old GPU's will be worthless.
@@TheGanemi >"5 years old and used HDD would be worthless as well"
This just isn't true. Go and lookup the price of old hard drives on ebay. They still keep their price very very well.
@@TheGanemi This sort of tech has no inherent value though. Even if you assume that 90% of work will eventually be automated, or maybe even more, something like "currency mining" doesn't have any inherent worth, it just wastes resources.
Gonna be a whole load of very tired SSDs turning up on eBay very soon…
And you just know the greedy bastards are going to charge new or near new prices for them. Then, BAM! they die on you a week or a month later.
Very good point, I'm glad I have plenty of SSD space right now, I'm going to want my next SSD to come retail factory shrink wrapped! And not from Amazon or Ebay marketplaces for sure.
@@Kie-7077 Good luck buying it at the current prices. But whatever drive you want NOW. The storage market is going to go the GPU way within this quarter.
@@meetankush I got lucky and bought a rtx2070 before prices rocketed, 3tb of SSD should do me for games no problem!!
Not so green now is it now? They should just make plotting easier on HDDs tbh. Wasting all these SSDs for nothing.
inb4 linus repurposes one of their old storage severs for Chia farming
That's... Not unlikely
Well, he did just get old whonnock back online with those intel drives 🤣🤣🤣
No that was for burst coin
This requires modern peripherals that's bent on speed and efficiency. Doubt old tech will cut it.
@@Mimeniia What about that Gigabyte engineering sample storage server with the Intel SSDs? That looks like he would do it.
I love how most CZcamsrs have crazy expensive metal shelving, and our boy here has miners in cardboard boxtops, and using styrofoam inserts as racks. Well played.
My MSI miner is on the box it came in
I think the styrofoam is a bad idea for HHD rack. It does not seem to dampen the vibrations at all from my experience. Better to just lay them down on something like a kitchen towel to dampen vibrations.
Your lottery analogy is almost perfect. That's basically what's happening. Each plot is basically a lottery ticket, a plot is a chance at winning a Chia. I farmed 40 plots last month to test it and basically came to the conclusion it wasn't worth it to do on the side since you have to continually be constantly adding new plots or you'll get left behind as the people with large arrays of machines plotting/farming will outpace anyone doing it on a single or even a few machines.
Yup, but this is why pooling which is coming soon is what individuals need to have a chance. Also people can't look at this as a get rich quick scheme.
that shit's whack yo, such a waste. I don't even care that much about it not being all that green, but I do care about work for nothing. They should at the very least make it so that each plot is held in perpetuity and is not made redundant. Like not having to constantly plot in order to stay in the game would be a plus, besides, isn't a plot basically proof of your space and your work? it needs proof of redundancy too? shieet
@@chrisrosenkreuz23 you don't need to keep plotting. Only reason to keep plotting is if your storage isn't full yet and you still have room for more plots
@@Stavroization oh ok, that clears things up a bit, and makes a lot more sense, thanks!
@@Stavroization You actual do if you ever hope of being able to win a Chia, just having plots doesn't make you any Chia. The more plots that's added to the whole network (by everyone), the more worthless the plots you have are. You can test this yourself if you like. Farm plots and put it to work and don't farm anymore. You will watch your estimated time to win grow with each passing day. The estimate itself has an asterisk that admits the actual time may be 3-4 times longer than the estimated time shown. Because your plots are so insignificant compared to the total that is in the network, the chances of you ever winning a chia is next to nil unless you hold a significant amount and continue to grow your farm as the total network continues to grow. The total network is currently at 3.911 exbibyte as of this post and continually growing every second. A month ago, it was in the low 1 exbibyte.
In the time it took me to write this post, the network grew by over 10,000 TB. Unless you have some serious storage to devote to storing those plots for farming, your chances aren't that great and as the total size of the network increases but your own plot count doesn't, that also affects your chances. It's why hard drives are scarce right now, particularly large capacities.
I jumped all in thinking this was going to be inexpensive, green, easy. I have been mining from almost the beginning of BTC, mined just about every coin that could be mined and made very decent money over the years doing that. As far as chia, the verdict is still out for me but here is what i have found in getting to 427 and counting plots. equipment price is not cheap, sure you can farm this coin on a home pc and you might get lucky with just 1tb of plots, but that's what it is luck. I have 3 high speed enterprise servers, each with raid sas storage drives and SSD plot drives. In 1 month i have burned up 4 (new) consumer ssd drives, a ton of electricity and 25% of my available storage used up. Servers are around 5k a piece, storage another 5k (total on servers), SSD maybe 1k total before i get to 512 plots, electricity another 500 bucks. As of today, i still haven't got lucky and received any Chia, and my percentage of the network is ridiculously low compared to the hardware i have dedicated at it. These same servers alone put on a coin like monero would have earned me money already. I'm sure i will eventually get a chia, but at what cost, and not green, between the e-waste in equipment and electricity costs. Sure ill have the equipment after i stop mining (farming) it but that's about it. Even if i get lucky today and tomorrow and 2 other times this week i will only break even. Guess what I'm saying is don't except to make a ton on this coin.
Finally someone on CZcams that explains it in detail.
The only one of these things that ever made sense was a french server company that wanted to be your space heater, they would install a server and split the difference in power vs server up time and usage, so you got a heater they got somewhere to put a server.
So at the time 2-3 servers in a wall using 1Kw would be your heater which makes a lot more sense than this. So anywhere it snows mining something is a valid option during winter purely for heat value.
I like that (and that's pretty much what heats my house -- the computers I have running all the time anyway.) However, electricity is the most expensive way to generate heat. Even if the DC is paying half of it, it's still much more expensive than gas or a heat pump.
Your concerns were my thoughts as soon as I heard of Chia. As soon as I heard about it, I said to myself, "people aren't going to think this through, it is going to get super popular real quick, dive up the cost of storage, then flop hard because a bunch of people are going to sink a lot of money into SSDs that are going to break real fast and people are going to get out."
So I had a huge argument with a crypto-tuber and the Devs about farming Chia with their and his claims its environmentally friendly, and I highlighted the fact SSD's they were showing as a "how to farm" would die, plus the exponential lack of chance the more people joined. I got banned.
Getting banned proves you won the argument.
Its like saying Nuclear Power is Green. Like... ok... (You can make the Argument with everything, thats just one Example)
In most cases still better than coal.
This claim / thesis was everywhere literally already 1000s of times... no wonder you got banned. There were already discussions about that bro you just had to look them up.
@@flimermithrandir - Nuclear power is green or is the green glow just a lie pushed by the Simpsons?
You are amazing dude, so talented with your presentation. Hats off to you.
thanks man!
@@der8auer Unfortunately, you're late to the game: BurstCoin has been around for a long time...
@@der8auer Next you should work on backing up your presentation skills with research skills. You clearly did only a small amount of reading up on Chia and many of your assumptions can be easily refuted with the plentiful sources currently available. Instead, you offered an incomplete, inaccurate, ultimately biased take on Chia. That's poor journalism, my friend. Edit: And there you go folks, a snarky deflection to match the sensationalist clickbait title. Looks like @der8auer doesn’t take accuracy or truth in reporting seriously. Hilarious that your “hyper-ethical” buddy Steve just regurgitated your bad info without doing his own research either. So cool for a couple of supposed tech authorties to be so cavalierly wrong.
@@feneon4826 how about starting with some sources to back up your claims 😂😂 your criticizing this method and doing exactly the same
@@der8auer I replied with links, but it looks like the comment got deleted for some reason. Maybe links aren't allowed? But as a viewer of your channel, it really shouldn't be my job to find sources for you anyway. But to directly address at least one point, Chia the company has stated and reiterated that they do not recommend using consumer grade NVMe drives for plotting. Any reputable community offering support to new Chia farmers will say the same thing: Don't use consumer SSD drives with a low TBW rating. Of course some will do that anyway, but that's an individual choice and not a reflection of how "green" Chia is. On a related note, while plotting does use electricity, obviously, it is a temporary activity and the long-term farming itself is quite energy-efficient. Chiapower-dot-org goes into this extensively, and accounts for plotting as well as farming in its analysis. It is immensely greener than current proof-of-work coins and that is the point. They could be more clear in their messaging and I hope they will develop better marketing in the future, but I'm still genuinely disappointed that you got some of your key points wrong when you could have done a small amount of research and been better prepared for your video. Edit: Just want to add that your childish reply to my comment reflects poorly on you. You're trying to be a journalist who gives reliable information to his viewers, but when someone criticizes you, your response is to post emojis and basically say "No, u"?
Its a lottery and a destructive use of silicon if you are using ssds. This sounds like the worst mining scheme yet.
use 10 old hdd in raid 0 it's will be ok , and more easy to have it , or use ramdisk over network ( Raid 0 with 3 ramdisk on each server on linux )
Me: freaking out my 2 year-old kingston ssd has degraded 10%
Chia: 1 month death sentence
I know right, I just checked my 1,5 years old ADATA XPG NVMe and found out it is at 95% of life
Me right now: Data Units Written: 4 402 608 938 [2,25 PB] on 1.8PBW 1TB NVMe SSD. Still running as usual.
But that's just a fun fact. Chia gives you the biggest incentive to waste resources at the beginning when it's easiest if you believe that people will want in later. That way, you can do whatever you can to fill your bag, but you risk the most. It's the earliest in the game, and you have nothing verified. The same was true for Bitcoin, but the difference between Bitcoin and Chia is that nobody pays a premium for storage, and it doesn't cost more to utilize it fully (unlike CPU/GPU, where you pay for electricity). Everybody has storage; it costs nothing to run full or empty; they sell it as cheap as possible for decades, you buy more than you need. Storage is everywhere, so anyone can tap into this resource to increase efficiency for what they already paid for (that's why it's green => increased efficiency for same resources long-term) and provide a supply of Chia. But because everybody can do it, it becomes who can do it cheapest including all costs - hardware, wear, electricity, time, ... Who can do it cheapest and still be profitable wins and on this level bought storage cannot compete with that amount of spare storage out there.
Except it’s a pure lottery system
@@nanonxpc9677 So is bitcoin. But because the custom ASICs are in the terahash range it averages out enough that you can project earnings very accurately.
@@nanonxpc9677 enough lottery cards = win
Remember Burst Coin? Unfortunately, I do. I had 240TB plotted and "mining" a couple of years ago. The plotting process for Burst Coin was no where near as intensive on the drives, but it did take a long time to create the plots. My big question is, why would Chia succeed where Burst Coin failed?
Because "Bram Cohen"?
Can't wait for my Kingston A400 to be worth £400 in the future.
I have one of those unused on my shelf right now... (rubbing hands)
@@lisandro3614 Hold on to that for about a year and I'm sure you'd be able to trade it for an rtx 3090.
You won't. I think you have to compose someting, betting you get that amount.
I doubt it. TBW of said drives: Capacity 120GB: TBW 40TB, 240GB: 80TB, 480GB: 160TB, 960GB: 300TB, 1.92TB: 600TB
@@esaedvik It's a joke.
I just wanted to pop in to personally thank you for helping to create the 011 D absolutely the best case I've ever used.
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Imagine renting out a server farm and your servers start killing themselves at an insane pace because people are using your farm to plot Chia.
This is why Google Cloud bans any kind of crypto mining on their servers
Nice vid, dude! Worth of sharing. want your thoughts on BeyondFinance. They tell there are actually high rewards and experienced community. Is it a great idea to load? Can’t get rid of these judgment.
Chia might be very useful tool to commit sabotage for 2x time profit
in theory Chia concept would be a awesome form of ransomwear too
Next up, "LCR" SSDs. (like LHR gfx cards.)
Perfect video highlighting basically every question I had, now I don't need to test :D Thank you
same here!
Wow. And there I was thinking flamboyant annihilation of resources for the sake of easy money cannot get any worse...
isn't that what capitalism is about? Murrica
@@Industrious420 No, that is not what capitalism is about.
@@Kaelthas93 what planet do you live on?
I wish I had professors at college with your didactics. Congrats, mate.
I bought 200 Tb hard-drive, then send them back because only low trust exchanges listed it. Also the difficulty getting ridiculous.... There is a guy on Reddit with 500 Tb and 0 chia still. And he is not the only one. with 100gb, the estimated win time is 11+ years, reality is more, also difficulty changing non stop... On the positive side I kept the 2Tb Rocket 4 SSD. Edit: There is guys out there with Pb storage doing this, more and more. So our chances are extremely low.
Mine in a pool, and lots of time people forget to update the app, syncing is off, etc
@@randomsomeguy156 There was no pool when I done the plotting. I checked the sync, latest app, it was all ok and running. Still non of this will make it easier with the exploding difficulty levels and low trust exchanges. If binance list it, then I believe the price. Also the developers kept 21 million coins is not a good sign for me.
Difficulty growth would definitely slow down. Most miners have only plotted a small fraction of their existing drives so the network is growing fast. However, HDDs are harder to buy now so over time the growth should slow down.
Excellent work young man. It makes me proud to have a badge with your name on it inside my computer case.
Thought I'd put it out there that I used old mechanical SATA hard drives, internal and external, to plot on my aging Ryzen 5 2600 system with 32 GB RAM. Altogether, it was plotting around 0.8 TB of plots a day. I did later add a SATA SSD that popped up, and my speed is up to around 1 TB/d, but I could have gotten similar results by sneaking in another two HDDs, since at that total amount of plotting the cpu has become my bottleneck.
So it is possible to be a little less greedy and repurpose old drives for this project to give new life to what you might otherwise be throwing into the trash, instead of buying all new solid state drives that'll crap out in a few weeks or months. My only real purchase for this was a 5-bay RAID5 enclosure with 5 16TB drives, which I would have purchased anyway for other purposes and would still be used if I stopped farming XCH, and an enclosure to hold the extra hard drives I'm using for plotting. So at worst I'm a couple hundred dollars in the hole, but I extended the life of my old hardware.
Note: Total hardware consumption is under 180W according to my UPS, forgot to mention that above.
TLC SSDs with SLC caching algorithms that fold the cache to flash like those Phison based Viper are also not that great for plotting, their TBW is high but when you exhaust the SLC and have to recover the cache while still writing (which is what happens when plotting) you will have major write amplification and ruin the life % quickly even if you haven't written that many TB yet. Something like a 970 Evo Plus or a SN750 which has a direct to flash writing algorithm after exhausting the SLC cache is way better for plotting as it does not have write amplification problems and will sustain 1GB/s+ of writes even after 100s of GB of writes which the Patriot Phison based drives will drop to 500-600MB/s. Its the sustained write speeds that's most important.
So glad you did this video Roman. I was hoping to give it a try on an old Cisco server I have. I have no SSD's to use, only a couple 2TB hard drives and no money to buy better equipment. I can see by your testing it makes no sense to even try. This saves me the time and money in power I would have spent for no reason.
You can use your strength on other important things for example, running your IPFS farm.
@@chuheihkg what is an IPFS farm?
I've been using my SSD daily (includes gaming and 3d modeling) for 4 years and I have around the same TBW that you got in one week mining one plot in Chia lol. For my particular SSD (Samsung 850 Evo) this is like almost half the life expectancy.
they can use ramdisk and raid 0 with 3 server on linux and share this ramdisk ( of 3 ramdisk mixed in raid 0 ) over the network
But that does not make sense. You would have to share your RAM until you win the lotery. RAM disk approach is fine for saving SSDs, but you can only plot one at a time. Save the plots to HDD.
7:24 ahh I remember when the total network space was "only" 2 exabytes... back in the good old days of [*checks watch*] two weeks ago......
You can buy old DDR3 server systems with lot of memory for very little money. But it would use even more power.
I have ran those servers but the memory speed is probably way too low for mining like this.
@@Wereld03 u can raid them , they can use ramdisk and raid 0 with 3 server on linux and share this ramdisk ( of 3 ramdisk mixed in raid 0 ) over the network , but it's will cheap to build 10 old hdd and mix them in raid 0 on linux , as it's useless to go over 1000 mb/s of speed as your network must also be in 10gb , if u have 1gbit ethernet the speed will be 125 mb if u share over network
Great video, to sum it up. It is not worth getting into Chia farming, as you chances of getting any coins is almost zero. Plus, hard drive costs have gone up 26.5% in the last 30 days.
I think the better thing to do would be wait for pool mining which is supposed to be out May 15th and plot on the HDD as well. I can average a plot in roughly 9 hours so it might be a better option versus killing ssd’s with huge TBW.
How about we just stop the entire nonsense of trying to make imaginary money?
@@andersjjensen yeah I'm with you, abolish the federal reserve.
I really didn't understand what you meant when speaking about SSD lifetime write expectancy. SSDs don't die after you've written the specified TBW amount, they can last much longer, you can write 10, 20 times more before the data gets corrupt or drive fails completely. You can easily find numerous tests on the internet where, say a Samsung 860p survived more than 3PB of data written with only 150GB TBW. Certainly, it all depends on drive itself, quality, market positioning and so on. As far as I know (though I may be wrong at some point) TBW is a guaranteed amount of data you can write after which your warranty becomes void but definetely the drive doesn't die.
And warranties are like that, as they know the avg failure points.
@@wobblysauce они, блять, не умирают когда их жизнь, якобы, заканчивается, они живут в разы, в разы больше
And no one said they did... but if all of them had an extra 1/3 left in them, I am sure most companies would have extended that point by a 1/3 also.
In terms of memory, I feel this is where Optane DIMMs would shine.
ye, i was thinking about those too
I think old barely used datacenter drivers is actually the key. Optane is expensive and also has write endurance. The 10-20% price difference isn't worth it if they will end up costing 2-3x. Also I think new storage (especially enterprise) also loses value much faster than GPUs used for mining example.
I wonder why the RAM-plotting is so slow... Is it cpu-limited then?
@@rkan2 its CPU/Memory speed limited. Speed of SSD don't matter at all.
@@rkan2 yeah the way to do this is get high IOPs huge endurance datacenter PCIe ssd drives to plot and connect a mess of those old 3TB SAS Seagate/HGST drives which are like $25 in quantity
@@yrly59e I don't think they're 25$ anymore unfortunately
Im Wiki schreiben sie aber:Inside each plot is a large number of pre-formulated calculations stored in large table (spreadsheet) of blocks called (hash) cells. You win potential coins by providing the winning pre-formulated (hash) code to allow the transaction to occur. The winning transaction is very quickly done within 2-3 seconds and the user is compensated with coins to facilitate the transaction. Plots have many (hash) cells inside so if one wins there is still many left that can win. In other words, you do not need to delete a plot if it wins you coins. Plots can keep earning you coins. Plots are estimated to last over 5 years.
well seems like the old enterprise ssd cache drives would be some of the better ssds to use for this because of how massive their write endurance is and how they are not left in the dust with write speeds
G'day Roman,
Thanks for breaking down how Chia actually works & doing it twice for us non German Speakers, great explanation for those not into Mining/Farming, So just like Mining you still need your PC Processing 24hrs a day,
Just wanted to understand when you said it is a 'Lottery' does that mean you can do all this work & still Never earn any Chia? making your Farm a waste of Resources
what about Optane for the plotting? (very expensive up front, but if you already had the optane sticks?)
This is fantastic! Now we can both have GPU shortages AND storage shortages! What's not to like! :-/
The fuck are you gonna use 10TB+ drives for anyways lol
and ram and amd cpus going up in price
@@marcos14223 Actually AMD CPUs are dropping right now. Both the 5600X and 5800X are being spotted for below-MSRP prices at various e-tailers.
@@mich977f Well the "homework" folder of cause :P
@@andersjjensen I can hook you up with a 10TB when Chia crashes lmao
I'ved used Burstcoin in the past.. it would calculate the plots one time (took about a week or so for a couple of 8TB drives) and after that energy usage was almost nothing. Spinning drives and barely any CPU usage. Confused as to why Chia needs to plot all the time? When I stopped with Burst, I just put the drives into a 2nd off-site server for some back-ups. Way easier compared to GPUs.
It doesn't, he's saying you need to increase your number of plots all the time to maintain your chances of winning a coin due to the total number of plots constantly rising.
@@kotekzot that will only be the case till the 17th May. Pools will be available after that meaning its less of an arms race.
@@Milkym0o that's a good point. Your average earnings will still be going down (assuming no change in the value of the coin), but it will be less of a lottery and more of a stable income stream, which could be the difference between an unlucky farmer having to sell his assets at a loss to keep the lights on and him not having to do that.
@@kotekzot its only an arms race because pools werent ready at launch. thats why we have this raffle going on right now basically. Everyone will have to replot for pools anyways. Small/Medium farmers can spend the electric getting plots setup, then till they decide to expand they wont have to keep on plotting. Literally just "set it and forget it" since HDD uses 6w idle. For comparison my GPU mining rigs that i run 24/7 are consuming 700-800W!
@@Milkym0o Still an arms race, both within the pool and between pools and whales.
This is such a great pragmatic video. I have been researching on Chia farming since morning and have seen quite a few videos on it. Most of the youtubers got me excited but didn't answer the real questions. But your video is great, thanks for all this information.
I was about to jump into the bandwagon. however, I won't do it now. thanks for your informative video.
If you want to, you can buy plots online and farm on Raspberry Pi.
@@FVBmovies what's to stop people from keeping those plots for themselves AND selling it to others and then attempt to just be the first one who submits the plot?
@@eswee6780 you can't, the plots are permanently tied to a single "farmer" and "pool" key
@@eswee6780 Jesus you guys. It's farmed with your public key. Only issue is internet speed.
@@JoeDai and faust von barley thanks
had the same idea about RAM Plotting but on DVD RAM would be slower. Glad you tested it.
Educational, great knowledge transfer. You really go the extra 'byte' to give us insight.
I can generate 3 plots per day on ssd-hybrid raid ( with old ssds ). It's green after you plot, generating 3 per day on a virtual machine with 2 cores, then you can literally use a Pi to farm those plots on a network. Plotting is a one time thing, and its cost to generate vs GPU mining is massively different.
Great video, I can see a lot of work has been putted to wrap up the topic, good job
Ty for the review. I would still argue that it's greener than 2000W ASIC miners in warehouses vs 5-10 w hard drives in warehouses. There's still rigs to make plots sure but it can certainly fill fast with the power equivalency of only a few of those miners.
@rezargamer fyi 250 is less than 2000
@rezargamer and I pull 180w from a server to farm 21 a day please stop replying if you don't even understand how computers work thanks
@rezargamer ps... Ryzens 3000&5000 series actually use 65-120 watts. Only threadrippers use that much and at that point you're actually using power more efficiently per plot mined vs trying to get the equivalent per gpu or asic to crypto work done.
super informative video. thanks, man, keep up the awesome job.
Yes, it is. I had an M.2 SSD for over a year and it had a 0.14 TBW on it until I started plotting a week ago. Now it's at 0.39 TBW. So CHIA app has written more data on it in a week than everything else combined in the last year.
So instead of being a huge power waste chia farming sends your drives straight to the landfill... Because HDD are too slow to be worth it, and SSD will die so fast
Still wastes power because the system is still running 24/7.
+ the power used in manufacturing the drives, + the fact that that manufacturing capacity could be used for renewable energy sources instead
Awesome vid, thanks for taking the time to do this for us and breaking the "green" myth.... along the way, do you have any way of measuring the wear on the 3 ryzen systems, or you just go till end of the year and see how well they clock, or till they die ? 👍
Omg I did not expect to see you doing a video on this!!
You did a great job covering all the facts not giving mining bias thank you
He usually always is very neutral, also he isn’t into mining or sponsored so he had no reason to be biased, but yeah
Thanks derbaur, I think I won't be wasting my time with another one of these.
Just found your channel, great content! Subbed instantly. Keep it up! Greetings from Romania.
Benchmarking the farming. That's pretty nice!
This concept is NOT new. There are a few other coins that utilize the PoS (proof of space) such as Burstcoin (BURST) which looks near identical to CHIA and sort of a waste similar to Bitcoin and then there is STORJ and Filecoin, which are similar but ACTUALLY have a use since those are in essence a cloud storage service which offers rewards to "miners" whom have rigs setup for hosting files using the coin protocol.
thank you for your take on this very important subject. Trading environment for $$$ is never good in the long term.
it is just general greed or easy money to them.They don't care about anything apart from themselves.
if you want to farm chia fast, you need lots of ram and at least 3 very fast nvmes. i use 3x samsung 980 pro 2tb with 3x 860 evo ssd and 4x 12 tb hdd. i can plot 4.5tb a day easy. after my plots quickly get transfered to my 860 evo for farming while im working on my new plots i transfer the finished product to the slow hdd for permanent storage.
I hope this Chia Crypto thingy thing fail.
Why you gotta be soo badmind
@@Mo-gv4hj Because people hate greed.
u can also use 3 or 4 hdd in raid 0 ( 3 or 4 hdd at 100mb/speed ) will give you the rate on 400mb/s that above a regular ssd writing speed ( average speed ) ) , it's will reduce the stress on 1 hdd , by using them toghther , it's will easy to do than buy ramdisk , and give enough speed for not be a problem. and 4 old hdd of 500 gb can be fair enough for temp file
great video, thanks for explaining what chia mining is.
Or just tell people to buy other products.
Curious what other hardware will be used anytime soon for mining. If I were a hardware producer...
If you want green crypto that's not killing ssd (they're not really needed) take a look on burst :D
Those Exos drives are SMR, meaning VERY bad write speed AFTER first fill up of the drive. When the drive is new (filled with 0s), it's working like a normal drive, but if you write something, delete it and write again, it will start to drop write speed more and more.
When I first heard about it, I thought it was going to be like, a crowdsource cloud server kind of thing... but this just sounds like the same thing as regular mining
That's SIA coin
The "green" crypto that may end up even more resource-intensive than previous cryptos if actually successful due to the amount of rare metals needed to make high-capacity HDDs, wear on SSDs and the power needed to fill them.
I wish crypto currencies would stay the heck out of my space and harddrives. I have 100TB server with valuable data on it and now I am scared I will not be able to expand when I need to do my work. Crypto currencies are such a waste or resources.
Blame central banks 🏦
Ah it's subjective, we got more "renewable energy" today already too, and this can give the companies or industry that makes these drives a boost too. But I do agree that it's not entirely "green" and other mining is not, it doesn't work like that.
Banking system crooked. Standalone system benefits all possibly in future. Hopefully future crypto wont be created in this fashion.
I wish you'd included an explanation of what the data is that is being generated. Would've added some depth to the idea of Chia. I haven't read up on it myself yet, so I have no clue on what Chia uses the space for. I get that the video was meant to be more of a tech demo.
Chia is gambling. Illegal gambling. Illegal gambling that cannot be location regulated, so 100% of the chance of winning is literally at the discretion of the source.
Optane drives would be ideal for the capacity and pretty much unlimited writes.
use 10 old hdd in raid 0 will give you enough speed and cost nothing , u can found 500 gb hdd on ebay for nothing
BURST is the original green crypto that uses your Hard Drives
Unfortunately, seems only few people buy that. It looks like locusts have swept most of wheat from your field.
@@chuheihkg lol
Another way is since you have so much hard disks for storing the plots, use it to plot too. It took 12 hours so 2 plots per day on my WD purple 5400rpm 3TB to plot. No ssd death, plenty of hdd can be connected via SATA to the motherboards too. Power consumption per HDD is lower too since the cpu usage follows the plotting speed.
How about Intel Optane SSDs? They are fast and have much higher endurance.
My friend gave me some older WD Red 6TB drives, not sure what's more useful/fun to do with them, Chia, or toss them out my car window at 160mph just to see if they'll work again. Appreciate the video, was curious just how brutal it is on drives.
A crypto where the proof of work is either sold to the highest bidder, or voted on, would solve the environmental problems associated with crypto. E.g. instead of just computing tons and tons of meaningless hashes, we could maybe instead be calculating problems like protein folding, black hole simulations, predicted drug efficacy, environmental models, etc etc. We could turn it from something meaningless to something incredibly helpful.
Folding@Home, SETI(@home), etc. were fads. Nobody made any money from it -- well, not the people running the clients. The only reason _any_ of this blockchain foolishness continues is because there are fools willing to trade real money for this stupid shit. (and they, in turn, sell it to even dumber schmucks for even more.) For all of Bram's genius, Chia is, was, and always will be a very stupid idea.
How would Optane accelerate this process? It is meant to work in that faster-than-SSD, slower-than-RAM space, maybe it could soak up those excess TBW during the plotting process.
If Chia could help subsidize the development of Optane into a viable alternative to wear-limited SSDs, at least some good could come out of this mining craze.
15:29 I hope you have farmed at least 1 coin by now.
The block reward is 2 so getting just 1 would be impossible.
I don’t think he’ll continue
Maniacs with exabytes of storage have entered. The difficulty is now 99999 to infinity.
My 6.5-year-old Sandisk Ultra II 240GB (in Raid0 with a Crucial BX 200 240GB SSD) broke today during plotting. Before plotting, it already had 51 TBW. Today it should have had about 65 TBW... My Crucial (1.5 years younger) currently at 15 TBW can supposedly do 70 TBW. Sandisk does not give any information, but the warranty of 3 years has already expired...
Thanks for the video. Wish people would consider investing money into generating green energy to sell to the grid instead of wasting resourses on crypto mining.
dude your video is amazing, enjoyed it very much. i think you should add some infographics while you talk. like when you say a number, write it on the screen. it is much easier to understand
Thank you for the honesty about it.. enjoyed the content.
In my opinion I think you should just take off the heat sink of the SSDs and put it on the card with the cover because I feel like it’s better cooling because the air is actually getting directed to the SSDs
Also I thought the course air was actually really good because it was advertised with 3600 TBW but I guess not because I was tempted to get one so I can write all my empty hard drives siting there around my house. But I guess I’ll just stick with the one I have been using right now it works pretty well and it’s still 100%
Great, great video!!! Thanks.
After the plotting you can use the plotted drives until K32 is no longer accepted,, so it is def more green.
How to be Gaslighted by Mining companies. Yeah this one is GREEN. Such a waste of energy, hardware, and time.
Really liked this video, learnd something new, thanks👍
I would much rather use my space for filecoin than chia. at least the space is usable for people to store actual personal/app data.
oh yeah also you can just join pools to reduce the "gotta wait forever and be lucky" problem
"Filecoin is a horrible investment. It has an implied market cap of $120 bil. 90% (or maybe even 100%) of upside went to early investors. A typical Wall street "insider" job." - Random quote off the internet
@@roboCL0WN well I ain't here for crypto market speculation. My comment was from a "make better use of hard drive space" perspective. I'd rather the space be used to store meaningful data than stuff just used for algorithmic verification
I’m so glad I bought an extra drive recently. Guess that’s something else that I have to treat like gold. So lucky I got a 2080ti and got an extended warranty. Now I need a high capacity drive with the same thing.
I think the warranty does not cover exceeding the TBW
@@ukaszo3412 I bet your right. It was just wishful thinking lol.
I’m so incredibly disappointed to see this coin come out. I’m a professional film maker and this has already made the reasonably priced Seagate EXOS SATA drives out of stock just as projects are needing new drives. 😩🙄 Great timing miners! And I’m saying that as someone who has done some mining on my overpriced RTX card while not editing. Ugh, just feels like a let’s make sure no computer hardware is available!
Sorry hearing about that, Artist. I think there will be cheaper storages after the coin being knocked out. Do you have ideas how much comission when you try moving the sold to your own account?
There are so many GREEN cryptos out there that require very less energy like Harmony one or Cardano, Idk why these pow based coins get the limelight claiming to be green......
It is no different than any other crypto but they called it "farming" and "plots" so is different?
Solo mining always means you will never get a reward unless you are willing to potentially wait a few years to find a block.
Best to wait until it supports pool mining and you are guaranteed a payout. I wonder if it would affect your ssd the same, pool mining as opposed to solo?
What was CPU utilization on the EPIC rig which was rented as part of the experiment?
Yeah it's still work for nothing, it's just transferred that work from the GPU to other components. I look forward to struggling to get an SSD like I'm struggling to get a GPU...
Exactly. At least with Filecoin you can sell storage to others to store actual data in.
Cryptocurrency is the absolute worst thing to happen to industry in the past 50+ years. It's the new millennium's gold and silver rushes, booms and busts, and it's actually doing more damage than people realize. While the original gold rushes hundreds of years ago changed the surface of the planet, created pollution and ruined land, it's impact on the planet as a whole pales in comparison to cryptocurrency mining / farming. I'd have to do the math, but I'm willing to bet that the power used today in a year of cryptocurrency mining alone is likely more than the entire planet consumed during the last major gold rush, which also includes the carbon and pollution dumped + non-renewable resources consumed to generate that power. Greed trumps all.
@@racerex340 and you don't even end up with anything tangible!
@@cookiebob_ the exact reason why I dont invest in cryptocurrencies
@@cookiebob_ nope, you end up with a unique electronic file, with it's perceived value mapping back to nothing. A coin with a $1000 value today could be worth $10 next week simply due to one publication or announcement from a single foreign leader. At least the USD is backed by an economy (albeit fucked itself), coins are worth whatever investors say that they are worth, or more succinctly, what they are willing to pay. Some of the same people that talk shit about the USD being a fiat currency also buy/use cryptocurrency. 4D logic all around.
We tryed this years ago for a diffrent coin, same deal though, given we was big into it at the time it was a no brainer experiment, 256 SSD Drives accross a dozen top end servers, made a loss not supprisingly, but not a massive one, it would have been massive had seagate refused to RMA brand new drives supplied under RMA of other drives. Over the course of 6 months we blew up at least 400 drives, changing them in the morning became a time consuming chore
***silently walks over and turns off his old xeon server with sas drives he set up for chia experiment last night....
Good man
ahah, did the same, z400 workstation with xeon w3680 and 24GB RAM, HP P410 SAS controler with 4x3TB SAS (plotting on hdd to avoid killing ssd, taking age for 1 plot). Tested 2 days, then shut down
I bought 2TB Sabrent Rocket NVMe with TBW of 3600 so I'm good.
Also if you change bucket size to 64 it takes double the RAM but it significantly reduces wear on the SSD
The rich stay rich by spending like the poor and investing without stopping then the poor stay po0or by spending like the rich yet not investing like the rich
Wow I'm just shock someone mentioned
expert Mrs Nora I thought I'm the only
one trading with her
She helped me recover what I lost trying to
trade my self
I think I'm blessed because if not I wouldnt have met someone who is as spectacular as expert Mrs Nora
I think that she is the best broker I ever seen
Thanks for introducing me to Mrs Nora
I spent all weekend playing around with Chia out of boredom. Old enterprise pcie SSDs like the Fusion IO 1.2tb, 825gb and 640gb are ideal for this and generally pretty close to nvme in terms of performance. Pbs of write endurance most have like 10Pb or more. In fact old enterprise stuff in general is the cheapest entry point. Make a dedicated plotter get a dual Xeon Huanan mobo and run some old high core Xeons and plot on the fusion drives basically running two instances side by side transfer them to a farming rig which can just be some cheap anything. 640gb fusion drives should be like $75. Get SAS backplanes and a bunch of those old 3tb seagate constellations which are typically under $30 for holding the plots. You can buy those drives in quantity and get them down under $25. Backplane setup should cost less than $10.
And in a few months, you'll have a kW of mostly idle spinning drives. Wasn't this supposed to be "Green"?
@@jfbeam I didn't mess around with it above and beyond the experiment but it still was more economical to use old server hardware