Making music with a Commodore 64 is easy | And you don't have to learn programming
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- The Commodore 64 with its famous SID-chip really blew everyone away when it was introduced back in 1982.
It could play 3 different sounds at once, but during the years musicians and programmers learned to drop sounds in and out during the course of the music so it gave the impression that there was more than 3 different sounds playing at the same time.
The two different original SID chips, the 6581 and the 8580 have some differences in sound and capabilities, and there's always discussions going on about which sounds the best. I'm no SID purist, I'm a musician first and I've grown to appreciate the 8580 as the main SID source when I use the C64 in my music. I do prefer the 6581 for games and that one is also necessary for certain games to sound correct.
The original version of the Golden Boy can be found here:
bit.ly/37rG4gE
The two different C64 versions can be found here:
bit.ly/2NczdzP
Information about the Mssiah can be found here:
www.mssiah.com/
espenkraft.ban...
Intresting fact: The inventor of the SID 6581 Robert Yannes (MOS Technology) founded the Sythesizer company Ensoniq.
That he did.
Yes and started with a budget sampler the Mirage . A shame Ensoniq was going down years ago
And knowing Elektron started their own company with the sidstation
@@uvoikimovundutrauerblume3302 Unfortunately, the SIDStation caused a lot of eating up supply of replacement SID chips for people trying to restore C64s.
@@xnonsuchx unfortunately price of sid chips inflated due to circuit bending community
Stay a while. Stay forever! That brings back memories! 😊
play it at speed 1.75 ,even better memories ! :D
Congratulations! Mission accomplished!
Another visitor?
Sometimes i stand in front of random objects, nobody knows what i'm doing but i know i must search combination numbers before the robots get me
What about.... aaaaahhhhhhaahahhhhhhhhaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhahhhhhh
Rob Hubbard’s Commandooooooooo soundtrack was simply the best. Sid forever.
W.A.R. Martech game was better in my opinion
Did you ever heard the SID Last Ninja tunes? They were simply the best...
My favourite was the Delta in-game tune from Koyaanisqatsi. czcams.com/video/Zh8SIAZfDKs/video.html
nah wings of death is the best of them all🐹 oh by the way thanks for reminding me of last ninja. i had forgotten the name. i just mentioned in a comment on the 10 iconic basslines that the bassline of giorgio moroder chase is similar to the one in last ninja soundtrack. 🧐🧐
That was the first game I ever had on NES as a kid. Never knew how great the soundtrack was until I recently heard it on MisterFPGA’s c64 core.
Love the reference to "Impossible Mission". It was the first time I ever heard a sample being used on a home computer. The animation is that game was awesome for the time also.
Aaaaaaaarrrrggggh
I played so much Boulderdash on the C64 back in the day... I remember starting out with a cassette based drive... but when I finally got a 5 1/4" disk drive, I just knew I was at the pinnacle of computing. ;)
Hey I saw Yamaha RX5 samples in the Wave-player! Makes me happy, that machine is my darling.
Using a DX7 to play music on a C64 via MIDI ... I think i've just seen the epitome of coolness!
It's a DX7II, so it's one step away form the ultimate 1983 coolness. Now it's the modernness of later than 1986-87 (the C64 used here is also a more modern one than the orginals, hence that soundchip version).
I have the original DX7 (which is the second most sold Synth, so it's as far from rare as it can get), but no vintage computer unfortunately(in the old days I had an 8 bit Atari 130XE (4 channles of the orginal bleepy, bloopy,zappy chipmusic audio) , Atari ST and Amiga).
I wonder if it's possible to pass midi to some kind of C64 emulator?
I know it is possible with some Atari ST-emulators to run the original Cubase (or even Pro24) and use it as a sequencer with working midi from the emulator to/from the host (Windows).
Then, there's of course the optional vst-i versions of SID. The free ones like www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?plugin=SID&id=2839
Quadrasid (the vst-i version) seems to be in an "abandonware state" since 2013, when refx just discontinued it.
@@Magnus_Loov I would think MIDI is likely emulated in a C-64 PC emulator. They had a few different brands of interfaces and it wasn't built-in like on the Atari ST & the Amiga, which made it more attractive to write software for it. MIDI was built-into the Amiga like the ST. All that was needed was a $20 DIN connector & a MIDI cable. Not a full interface like all other computers. It was system tight latency too because it was "built-in". On the ST you still had to buy something, the MIDI cables. If I went with an ST, I'd have to have bought a MIDI interface since Jack T's "one size MIDI fits all" didn't fit my needs, so I bought the proper setup DIN adapter I needed for the Amiga.
I traded my original C-64 system for a synthesizer around 1988. I have a couple more hanging around (including a C-64c), but I haven't even turned them on. Emulation is the way to go.
I had the Yamaha TX-7 desktop module version of the DX7. I replaced it with a VST synth on my laptop and loaded my sounds right in. I also bought the excellent Yamaha MODX6 a year ago, compatible with the DX7 patches and top of the line Montage. I highly recommend it. Not "cheap" but a bargain next to the competition like the Amiga 500 was next to the 1000, same main technology in a cheaper form factor.
Nowadays you can watch music videos on those machines: best computer ever!
Your Channel is absolutely fantastic. It is difficult to know where to start. So many interesting videos.
I love music and the C64. That`s why I start here. 👍 🙂
Thanks man! :D
Another visitor. Stay a while... stay forever! Is from the game "Impossible Mission" on C64. I just can't forget this iconic sample. Thanks for the video.
Cheers!
Espen has the coolest classic toys i would luv to be there like a kid in candy store lool
The bill at the dentist would be big! ;-)
Really awesome video of using the C64 for music. I have a lot of great memories in regards to using "microcomputers" back in the day as they used to call them, like the commodore 64. Here is a interesting fact. The first commodore 64 units that were made has a weird "kernel bug". If you positioned the cursor to the very bottom left of the screen and typed three continuous lines of random characters at the bottom with out pressing enter ( or return) key and then pressed the enter ( or return) key when at the 3rd line of random charters, the computer would error out / hang required the user to power cycle the computer again.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info! :)
Another cool vid Espen. 80’s computer games were my first introduction to electronic music. You are the 80’s!
Thanks! Yes, I AM the 80s ;-)
Nice memories of C64. Machine language was still possible in those days. Amazing what you were able to get out of this old computer
I was lucky enough the have the FM Sound Module and Sound Sampler cartridges along with the 5-octave keyboard. Great times....
Same here. First computer was the VIC-20 than upgraded to the C-64. I did however, first use a PET at a class at community education class. I still also have my Datel MIDI interface card.
Watched this by accident at 1,5 speed, but I found out 150% speed up is mandatory, sounds way more exciting!
Still love the theme from games like "International Karate" and others.
Loved IMPOSSIBLE MISSION by EPYX!
I remember how stoked I was the FIRST TIME I beat the game.
@dorian diddles Late night post yo. I corrected it. lol
My first was the C128 D (D for Diesel) 😅
You flashed me back into my memorys. Thank you for that.
My preferred songs were from Defender of the Crown.
Also cool was the Demo with the Crocket Theme.
Cheers! :D
jaja D for Diesel
🤣🤣😂
C64 still pound for pound the best computer ever...
So cool! I'm amazed by what you can do with the old SID-chip.
I did really like listening to the two versions and I have to say, even though they're 4-bit samples, they sound very cool!
Thanks Man, yeah the SID puts many a synth to shame really. Still very capable and mix it with other types of sounds and you have an edge. ;-)
That was my first computer, is a powerful tool in its time, many of us learned to program on that PC
Beyond amazing! The MSSIAH is a wonderful piece of software, very cool to see in action in your competent hands🤘
Sweet, thanks! :)
Lovely. Well done sir. Also useful, as I'd not seen this workflow with the SID yet.
Cheers!
Love this
Espen, thanks for sharing this with us. Can't wait for more!
Thanks! :)
Seeing you with all these vintage synths (and the DX7s/II sure is fine to look at to this day!) and then with the C64 at center. That must be the most musical modern outrun image I've seen! :-D
It's so cool that you took the C64 apart and gave a messiah demo! That thing really show the SID's power!
Cheers!
I started off with the VIC20 and moved up the C64 too. Never made music with them though. Thanks for sharing this.
great video. 13:43 also like a preface to portal ending.
love the sounds of the 8580. great song!
Thanks! :)
I'm just about to start work for the day in my job as a software engineer.
A job i got partially from my many decades of programming, starting in my childhood when I used to program my father's VIC-20 to play music.
I learned the keyboard/piano and programming att the same time, and it was exciting for my 7-year-old mind to figure out the Imperial March by ear on the piano and then program the computer to play it back to me.
This video just unearthed so many memories. The way we did music back then was very different, it was all in numbers using reference sheets and you had to run the program to hear the result (which could take up to ten minutes of loading), and you did not have a graphical interface to tweak your instruments. But the sounds... Those wonderful sounds!
Thanks for commenting! The 80s was (to me) a glorious time.
I need that pacman lamp.
🎶🎵Cruisin' down in my 64🎶🎵
In an alternate universe, a very excited 11 year old version of me shows his parents that his C64 can play Espen Krafts "Golden Boy", so maybe those damn computers aren't so bad after all.
Hah, great parable, sort of, like it! :)
Gotta love the C64... Have to try this with my old breadbin
Just ordered a Mssiah- thanks Espen.
Awesome!
Excellent, excellent video and breakdown of very important elements. Thank you for putting this together as well as for helping to further demystify this great instrument, SID Sensei!
Thanks!
Thumbs up just for your studio
Cheers!
2 years old but gold. If U find time take a look at sidblaster. Put SID inside an connect via usb. Amazing small hardware
Awesome! I love the C64 sound. Fun to see it made.
Moro det da. :) Thanks!
Wow, didn't realise the SID was so versatile! I'll have to crack open my C64C to see which version it contains and also order a MSSIAH cart. I use my 64 for occasional sequencing with Steinberg Pro 16, and I also have one of those neat 1541 SD card emulators like yours.
Yes, they will sound different, even the 6581s will sound different from each other. The SD card emulator is just so I can save and load own samples faster when I shoot videos. Usually I'd prefer the real disk drive.
You should try what I call “pitch down kicks” you take a low pitch triangle or square or sine, and then when it’s triggered you slide the pitch down very quickly. Popular on FM chips, very punchy.
Edit (correction) : I thought the sounds of a C64 were made by the Texas Instruments SN76477 (synthesizer chip).
It was not. But the 76477 is still a cool synthesizer chip.
This chip is still available.
The schematics are also available, just use Google Images.
Don't know why you think that? The Commodore 64 used the MOS 6581 sound chip to make it's sound. The SN76477 were used in some other arcade games and things like that, not it in the C64.
@@EspenKraft I'll look it up. I have one stashed, in the attick. I'll open it and have a look. In the mean time, I'll edit my previous message.
Thanks. I only want to post correct info.
I started on Commodore Amiga 1000 running bars and pipes, it was amazing back then and a great creative musical platform! Cool to see the c64, a few of my friends were using those as well with Doctor t software. Some were on early dos-based PCs running the first versions of cakewalk too. Fun times!!
This is great, all from an old commodore 64 :) Commodore is awesome. Thanks!
Back to roots :)
Amazing!!
Cheers!
Thank you for your demonstration
Cheers!
Soo cool, dx7 C64=heaven
This is now a world of let's make this,and this,and this,and that,and make the same sounds we could make when we really learned analog synths 50 years ago.It was a world of Eno,FSOL,Parliament,Hancock,Hammer,Stevie Wonder,Pink Floyd,and many other people experimenting,breaking new ground,while learning to somehow make the machines talk to each other,even though it might have been made that way.Although I do love some of the newer gear,I love to chose challenges,machines I can tweak,and the open source mindset.
For example,I got a Mac G3 for $5,and found a powerful DAW,which was over $300 in the past,for free.I have machines that have floppy drives,Zip Drives,optical drives,and I also love my i7 machine as well.If you dig deep,you will see that the old and new can do some amazing things,together...Now I am wishing I kept my ColecoVision,yet perhaps I should poke around and see if I can make some music with my Playstations and Xbox.
Very nice walk through. The midi sync requires a lot of tweaking when using Mssiah because each part of the package has a different delay. I worked with 4 C64 simultaneously and I had to adjust every instrument accordingly. Very nice tune!
Thanks! Yes, the delays and jitters are at some places severe so there was a lot of editing in post here ;-)
Absolutely wonderful. Thanks to share that fantastic video❤
Cheers!
Amazing
Congrats! :) I like the use of C64 very much. Not much time now to sing you a bautiful and rich comment but know I feel like doing so. :)
Thanks! :)
@@EspenKraft I know how to put it in simple yet rich words: I'm grateful, my fellow man! :)
Thanks again! I use the C64 to make music once in a while and I have some cool videos coming up soon showing more of that. ;-)
Hehe nice. The VIC20 was my first machine too ;)
Mr. Kraft, First time to your channel, This is the most interesting video on the C-64 that i have seen. You are very, very talented in what you do. Thank you for sharing this video with us...
Many thanks for saying! I have a couple more C64 videos as well and I plan to do more. So much to do, so little time. ;-)
Saw the intro, instantly gave it a like.
Hey, thanks man! :)
This was some fun and awesome content...
Thanks! :)
@@EspenKraft I got one of those mini Synths from Korg..loaded some open source software..and I love using samplers,to create beats/music from found sounds,not so much records...Someone gave me some pedals,so when i hook my gear back up,it should be fun..
I used to write music on the C-64 and Amiga using a midi adapter and keyboard.
wow!!!!!! i can only imagined how amazing that was for that year!!!!!!
I've seen Look Mum No Computer making use of the C64 as well and he also mentioned those two chips. I never had C64 - I had a Spectrum.
The Spectrum is iconic. :)
@@EspenKraft Mine was the Spectrum+ 48k - it wasn't the one with the rubber keys
To me they're all iconic. I never owned any of them myself though.
I too used a zx spectrum. My first voyage into midi was an add on rom called specdrum. It allowed the spectrum to be a 4 track drum sampler ... Total length of sample time was 1 second ... Not much really for a bassdrum, snare and hihat! Was a lot of fun though.
35 years later I'm still a midi nut haha
Look Mum No Computer ist the f***in best electronic punk, experimentalist, mad scientist ever! Check what he did with the SEGA-Genesis, or the furby organ or the (MASSIVE) Gameboy Mega Machine... he is a retro-revolution...
Hi Espen! did you think i won't comment for this wonderful video? lol.. first of all great video as always, brings me packs of memories when i was a kid growing on the 8bit generation with a Commodore 64 manily used to play games as a kid , amazing work with Mssiah Card! the arrangement is so sweet for Golden boy! . as a programmer of Commodore 64 and a person who is fiddling more or less with Sidchip music , ppl doing amazing sound with this chip , its still alive and the C64 scene is alive and kicking with many music collection ,demos , C64 new games and and everything else like on the good old times. thanks Espen for the Commodore 64 retro stuff! dope!! i adore this !!
Thanks man! Yes, I know the C64 community is strong as always. Chiptune music isn't a genre I'm very interested in in isolation, but it's fun sometimes to go in there for a day or two and make some covers of my own songs, in that format. ;-)
Nice video Espen !! I had also a C64 with a Clab midi interface and Steinberg sequencer software and that worked very well for me until the Atari came out. Very nice C64 arrangement of the golden boy song !! Well done !! Friendly Rene
Thanks man! Yes, Steinberg has been around for quite a while ;-)
Me too 😀
I went to a live chiptunes concert here in Boston last month, it was pretty cool although not all the acts were strictly SID sounds.
In Boston Massachusetts I thought people were not into this stuff 🤔
Awesome music I wish I knew more about Midi.
Cheers!
great video, c64 it was my very first contact with creating sounds...
Thanks! I guess it was many peoples first contact. ;-)
@@EspenKraft and now i am 47 and still dedicated my life to music. c64 was our religion when we were child ... btw love your work, as i am also a kid of the 80s
Thanks Robert! :)
Absolutely awesome, I love "the golden boy". Always put it on when I feel low and life all of the sudden feels better.
Hey, that's great to know. Cheers! :)
All I want for Xmas is that PacMac thing.
c64s crazy people are everywhere, oh man what a perfect mind
my dad has a bunch of random ass commodore 64's laying around, covered in dust and shit, but thats why im here for the tutorial
I envy you. I hear old computers cost a lot to buy in good condition. assuming your dads C64s aren't all broken
@@XYZB0RGA lot of them are like the model that came right before that.
super kool!!!
Great video Espen! I also have a C64 with Mssiah cartrige. I prefer the 6581, in fact I have a big stock if 15 and they all sound different! Two recommendations... 1) Get a Sid2Sid card, it allows you to have two SID chips at the same time, double the polyphony or use it as a true stereo synth. Mine has two RCA outputs, one for each chip. 2) get an adaptor so you can use a PS2 mouse. It will only work on the Sequecer app, but that´s where you can make your own wavetables, use it multitimbrically, etc. I made a patch on my Nord Modular G2 so I can control most parameters from the Nord knobs.
I use it with a small 7 inch screen. I disconnected the audio input to the chip for a less noisy output signal. It´s a really cool sounding machine.
That's a very nice setup man! I actually know about the mouse and all. I too have several C64s and different SID chips, I just prefer the one in this video. As for polyphony, I really don't need that for the work I do, I multi track everything and just need the one sound to lay down a track. The authenticity isn't very important to me and the sequencer in Mssiah I never use, chiptunes and stuff I leave to others, I just want the raw sound of the SID to blend in occasionally.
If I wanted 100% authenticity I'd code the whole thing.. ;-)
@@EspenKraft By "Sequencer", I don´t mean using the sequencer part, but the "Instrument Editor" within the Sequencer App. There you can edit every aspect of the SID synth, including the "Wavetable", you can sync it to midi clock, etc. You have different modes, including a polyponic one, which in fact is paraphonic, but don´t underestimate the power of a 6 voice paraphonic SID synth!. What´s unique is that the more voices you play, the more saturated the filter gets. It´s a nice effect, but there´s a trick to avoid it if you want, as the oscillators don´t have independent volume... you have to program the amp env with instant attack, instant decay, and you set the level of the oscillators with the sustain level. 👍
Sure, I got what you meant. I don't disagree with your facts, it's just not what I normally would be very interested in doing with my C64s. I could have gone this way in a video to demonstrate certain workflows and possibilities, but ultimately I've chosen to only make videos that show MY way of working. ;-)
That's so cool.
Cheers!
"upgraded to the C-64 and I never looked back"
Until now that is
That's right.
Fantasic video! Thank you for posting. i love C64 game music. Some games have some real gems on them.
I see C64 and music in the title, Like and comment even before watching
Love the Noise for the snare
Sweet!
Not the fullest use of SID capabilities but workflow looks like fun ;)
Synth sample - we were stunned.
Commodore! Cool! Also, seems very windy out there Espen. Wow
It was very windy that day. The power went out a couple of hours later.
at first i took the outside window for a green screen with a fancy demo animation...
Hi. The real reason why the screen goes blank during music playback is because the VIC-II takes exclusive access to the memory each scanline on the screen, disabling the CPU. So for a good music playback, it's mandatory to turn off the screen, like when loading tapes for example.
Yes, I was a little too imprecise in that remark. Thanks for the clarification! :)
It's awesome
I must admit I really enjoyed it but I didn't understand anything😔 I used to make music on an MSX 2+ ( with an FM chip ) without even using a MIDI keyboard back in the day. Still a great video, I'll be keeping watching you 😉
Thanks man, happy to have you with me here. :-)
Another excellent video, God this took me right back great times for music :-)
Thanks man!
The C64 was my entry to synths. But without dedicated programs like Databecker´s Synthimat 64 you were lost because the Basic of the C64 didn´t really support the SID. Only via cryptic POKE and DATA commands. So Mssiah 64 really unveils all its glory to non programmers.
I've done my fair share of programming sound on the 64, but since I want to release more than ONE video this year I had to do it a little different in 2019. ;-)
steinberg pro 16 on rom was the way to go if you could find one. midi in out and though din sync and time code in and out.It tacks over the C64 so it just runs pro 16.You have to have the
floppy drive for storage (5/14") back in the day. Synced to reel to reel fantastic in its day.
great video! this chanel is amazing.
Sweet man :)
NOICE !
...has everyone forgotten the Elektron SID-Station Synth? Anyway... it was my first computer, and i'm still addicted!
Forgot? I commented on that earlier. ;-)
@@EspenKraft sorry for not reading the whole comments...
No problem, it's a great machine. A bit expensive though.
@@EspenKraft agreed... expensive now.. wasn't when released...
Very cool. Wow that DX7 looks like new.
It's in mint condition yes. ;-)
I have Kerberos... It's not tied to MSSIAH's program. You can run several very good programs to get the same sound with a better control. Also it has an ability to store cartridge images - very neat feature (quick download and more programs to use)! It's DIY'able as far as I know but I've got mine for money.
Espen, is that an Atari St behind you? That was my first MIDI computer, I ran pro-24 on it before I got a copy of cubase. Happy memories
Yes it is. I have used Ataris since the mid 80s. I still use it to make music. Check out some of my videos where i do. ;-)
Sounds great ! Like an old amiga video game music, I like it :)
Thanks :)
Cool video! (T-shirt is right on the money, btw! 😉)
It WAS Christmas as least. Thanks! ;-)
If you like SID sounds, you should really check out the TherapSID Mk2 by TwistedElectrons.
pretty dogone good for a C64, excellent
Stay a while... stay forever!!! And Here is a 46 year old guy making an evil laugh....
I'll join you! ;-)
Espen Kraft hahahahaha };>)
This....Is.....AWESOME!!
Sweet!
Awesome
Thanks! :)
MSSIAH rules. I've got one aswell. I've also have a SID2SID-board, which makes it possible to use 6 oscillators synchronized in the sequencer of MSSIAH.
I've seen some people combining the 6581 with a 8580 aswell but that needs additional hacks because they use different voltages.
Yes, If you're sequencing directly in the C64 and want more than 3 tones going at once that's a good idea. I multi track all my sounds (not the purist way I know) so I manage fine with just one SID at a time. ;-)
Nice track ;)
Thanks! :)
9:19 can't help but think how music helped to develop the computer chips
Cool! Small request: Could you please do a quick rundown on what you use to connect the C-64 to a monitor and how you get the sound into the mixer? A TV with a sound output would do it of course, but it looks like you have a smarter solution. And thanks for doing this series!
It's very simple. The monitor output of the C64 (The DIN-plug) has chroma/luminance (S-VHS) and I take that to the monitor which has a S-VHS input. And I just take the audio from the same C64 DIN-plug and run it straight into the Audient preamp. Easy peasy ;-)
@@EspenKraft Ok! Thanks!
@@EspenKraft Ok! Thanks!