Did Emperor Titus Mede II ASSASSINATE HIMSELF? - Elder Scrolls Detective
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Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to The Elder Scrolls Detective Series!
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The Emperor had one other last dying wish, for everyone to follow;
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Camelworks this kind of stuff tickles more than my fancy (if you catch my drift) 😫💦😍
100% like rate on this video so far :)
Did you notice the weird audio in the background? 2:00 was that just ambiance or what??
Camelworks Theory on Amaund Motierre:
Just a theory, however, I would like you to consider the evidence for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Just want to provoke thoughts and ideas.
I want you to look closely at Amaund Motierre in Volunruud......
And then look closely at the Motierre you meet in Whiterun.......
It's clearly not the same person.
Some have said and will say that the Motierre in Whiterun is supposed to be an aged/stressed version, but that doesn't make much sense since the mission could and can be completed rather quickly and even if you waited months, that doesn't explain the different facial structure. Furthermore, if one professes that he has simply aged, then why hasn't Rexus, who looks exactly the same???
There's also several other thing's to pay attention to that made me strongly believe the Motierre in Whiterun is a body double, aside from the obviously different facial structure and features.
1) While seemingly a whiny, snobby and spoiled brat, it seems Amaund Motierre is highly intelligent and capable. He supposedly formulates and puts into action a multi-layered plan that opens up the Emperor as a target. He seems intelligent and knows how to cover his tracks and tie up loose ends, it would seem.
2) In Volunruud, Rexus is there with him in case things go sour. In Whiterun however, Rexus is in an entirely different room. For a faithful servant who supposedly never leaves Amaund' s side, it was most peculiar to notice......I'll come back to that later.
3) Amaund Motierre is a descendant/distant relative of Francois Motierre, a Dark Brotherhood contract from Oblivion. He knows who he is dealing with, as his family has dealt with the DB in the past, and so is very cautious as a result.
4) When you ask Babette about the contract, she says, " The man you need to speak with, his name is Motierre? That's a very old and powerful Breton family, firmly established in Cyrodiil. Most curious........".
There is simply too much about this guy and the situation that doesn't add up. It's also most unusual for supposedly loyal Rexus, who is always by his side and had sworn to protect Motierre, to mysteriously not be by his side if/when you decide to "alter the deal". And then it hit me........
If it wasn't a body double, which is a smart move that we saw in an earlier mission involving the Emperor (this lends further credence to such a theory) then Rexus might be the real "mastermind" behind the scheme. Stay with me........
1) When in Volunruud, Rexus says very little and in fact stays back, to far back to protect Motierre, and observes the whole exchange. I also found it odd that he'd wear Imperial Legion armor which has never been seen on any type of personal guard outside of the Penitus Oculatus. This is a sound tactic, as he could observe and gauge the assassin's reaction, while having a human meat shield in case thing's go South for whatever reason.
2) Rexus is the only constant in this mission; he's there in Volunruud "guarding" Motierre, but not near his side when in Whiterun when it's clearly a different Motierre than before. Also, the Rexus in Whiterun looks the same as the Rexus in Volunruud, as opposed to the two different Motierre's.
3) This is kind of dark, but if Rexus is the real brains behind this operation so to speak, then he might have killed the first Motierre in Volunruud (just another dead body right) to keep things under wraps, and used a similar personal attache to serve as the Motierre we see in Whiterun, serving as an attractive target.
4) In Whiterun, you can close the doors and kill Motierre in private. Where's the supposedly loyal and never far from his side Rexus? In a side room that few would even check as they barge into the Tavern and them speedily make their way out after the deed is done. I know that many people may not have even noticed that Rexus was in a room off to the side. If Rexus is the brains/the real Motierre, then he could have laid out a tempting target, essentially getting the assassin to do the work for him this time and no one would be the wiser. And he could simply slip out the back door undetected and without becoming a target himself.
And aside from Rexus wearing Legion armor, there's something else, Rex is Latin for 'King'. Make of that what you will. I for one don't believe the developer's at Bethesda gave him that particular name by accident.
After thoughts: Are the two Motierre's you meet different men altogether? If you look at the still shots of them side by side, you can see most certainly they are not the same person.
The Motierre's are in fact a powerful and old Breton family in Cyrodiil. A sudden political rise after the untimely assassination of the Emperor wouldn't be to far fetched.
The member of the Motierre family that you meet in Oblivion may point to something as well. It's interesting in that you give him a poison to trick people (DB) into thinking he has died........
Motierre may or may not be after the Throne for himself, there may very well be some kind of conglomerate group he is apart of working together to make a power-grab for the Ruby Throne. Some kind of old school 9-seat Cabal meeting in a smoky boardroom in a deep, remote location somewhere in Southern Cyrodiil.
Cheers
Camelworks Wonderful theory Camel, I wrote a theory on this very subject some time ago on an Elder Scrolls discussion site. I will present it here. I also have a theory on Amaund Motierre that I will post here as well.
Did Titus Mede II order his own assassination? IDK, maybe.
Was he alright with it? It would seem so.
I am going to approach this from varies angles and attempt to make an argument for them. Let's see where it goes!
Titus Mede II is/was a Colovian Warlord/Warrior-King whose aware that he's become a political liability to the Empire. Even if he made the right decision in appeasing the Thalmor/AD, while the Empire rebuilds their territory, everyone believes he surrendered Tiber Septim' s territory to Elves and blasphemied against the God of humanity (Talos). He can't rally the troops or other province's around the Empire anymore since he has gone it seems from being a badass Warrior-King who leads from the front to being another word for craven. His every decision is suspect and the Nords think he's a weakling, along with many Redguards feeling the same way. So what's the best solution if not to kill himself? Or have himself assassinated? It fits with the Roman ethic of the Cyrodiil Empire and we see that Titus Mede is completely alright with the DB killing him. He's resigned to the inevitable and seems positively happy about the development. Mede ordering the execution of the 'person behind it' may actually just be him tying up 'loose ends' so know one finds out about this Grand Scheme. Mede II being assassinated by the DB allows him to end his reign in a manner that he can prepare for with a chosen heir ready to take up the cause/Throne. Furthermore, it allows the majority of the Empire's wrath against him to die with him.
Titus Mede II the appeaser being killed allows a Mede heir (or a chosen General) to be the "Winston Churchill" they need against the Thalmor. A uniter rather than a divider.
A side note: Do you think it is a coincidence that the book "The Brothers of Darkness" is on his desk? Bethesda is trying to tell us something with that. Be sure.
A different rationale is this; Titus knows he is a liability to the Empire, and he knows his credibility has been shattered to pieces by signing the WGC. Maybe he didn't organize or order it, otherwise he wouldn't want you to kill his contract holder, loose ends or not. And Amaund Motierre says there is or needs to be a 'change in policy'. Maybe Mede stayed Emperor and never stepped aside because he knew the Empire needed some time to recover. If he stepped aside or died right after signing the WGC, the Empire might have just fallen to pieces, right back to succession crisis. Waiting a while for the Empire to somewhat put itself together meant that if someone has the political juice or acumen to kill him, they just might have the clout to replace him. And I think he would be ok with that, knowing the Empire is in good hands.
Mede always seemed to be planning ahead, and is clearly far more intelligent than most gave or give him credit for. His advisors recommended rejecting the original Thalmor ultimatum, but he signed it anyway. His Generals recommended against abandoning the Imperial City, but he did it anyway. He then led what some would call a desperate attack on the AD to retake the Imperial City, which saw almost the entirety of their army in Cyrodiil slaughtered. Even when it comes to his death by the DB, he came to Skyrim against the advise of the Penitus Oculatus. He stands there and let's you kill him, despite the fact that it seems to make little sense to anyone around him that he's even there in the first place. I'm not sure what his end game is/was, but Mede seemed to be playing a much bigger game than anyone else could see. Considering the access the Emperor's have to the Elder Scrolls, and the fact that the only other Emperor we have any experience with (In Oblivion) took a vested interest in prophesy through the Scrolls, it's possible Mede may have been up to something only he knew.
There are some paradigms to be drawn towards Mede's actions and the socio-political nature of Cyrodiil. He waged war like a Colovian and then tried to be diplomatic like a Nibean. In the latter case, we can't really say as of yet whether he succeeded or failed, as we're not really sure about the political climate after Skyrim and the attitudes towards Mede in Cyrodiil at present. Still, it's safe to say that he was losing political support and had he just stepped down, that lack of support would almost certainly had carried over to his successor. The sins of the father and all that.
By being assassinated, he takes his sins with him, ensuring whatever successor replaces him starts with a blank slate.
And an army on the Dominion's border............ Cheers
We join DB: Astrid, their leader dies.
We join Thieves Guild: Mercer, their leader dies.
We join The Collage: Savos, The Archmage dies.
We join Companions: Kodlak, their Har-whatever dies.
Coincidence?
Maximus2031 hey at least there’s the bards college
I THINK NOT!
Now that u mention it, these questline's endings do seem a little on the nose to me
Protagonist syndrome. You always gotta be the top dog for whatever reason
Nirn is known as "The arena".
It was all a ploy to cover up the murder of that insufferable body double.
Maybe the body double and actually emperor switched positions and we were meant to assassinate the double but accidentally killed the actual emperor.
Do you get to the White Gold Tower often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.
I love how the Emperor’s decoy has the same voice as Nazeem😂😂
Had to be the most insufferable lol
Looks like he finally visited the cloud district...
The same voice actor
Up next: Is The Emperor of Tamriel secretly Nazeem?
Mark Zarrin we've been killing Nazeem this whole time and didn't even know it.
* vittoria dies doing a back flip*
Dragonborn- “Weird flex but okay”
death animations go whrrrrrrr
I’m so glad somebody did a funny comment for this 😂
And dabbing
Husband/widower "this is fine"
it always bothered me that he didnt clap when he says "Rexus, the items!"
god yes ! i mean , how hard is it to make another animation ? besides , i'm pretty sure it could be used for many other purposes , if it actually existed . or , if you don't want to do it , just don't do the clapping thing at all ! he could've just asked him for the items , it's not such a big deal .
I mean when people dance at a Inn they sometimes clap
yeah , but i think they still dance at the same time , don't they ? that would be kind of weird . ' yes , we are here to discuss the assassination of the Emperor , now let me dance and clap my hands , while i ask my servant for the items ! '
FlanelFil They could have easily copied the animation and remove the dancing. Ir create a new animation. clapping is easy enough to make. Interaction with other objects is trickier
oh well , then it's just simply annoying .
I died when you shot Vittoria and her husband just casually stares at his wife's corpse fly through the air.
Erik Hoffmann and he’s just smiling about it
It was a political, arranged marriage. By the way, I once sneaked into Vittoria's house at night to see what there was to steal and I found her asleep in bed with a man not her husband-to-be. Not pining for young Snow-shod.
@@davidavaughn7406 cant blame him, cracked me up as well
she died with style, fitting of a wedding.
that last kick was amazing, too.
"Honey... please. Stop. You're embarrassing me..."
"NO! I MUST DANCE!"
The emperor say's he don't fight you. But if you pickpocket him and you get caught he attack you.
LMAO
Assasination is one thing, petty thievery is where he draws the line!!😂
he wanted Martyrdom not Molestation
Haha yeah, he is taking one of the weapons and run after you, same as astrid if you bash astrid with bow while she is waiting for her death, she gets up and try to punch you and fall immediately :-)
courage illusion spell, then hell try to kick your ass
"Of course you wont mind if I fondle you first? No? Okay, I wait until after."
I think the other assassin is meant to protect the lore just in case you destroy the dark brotherhood.
MEGA MORPHIWEENIS it’s a sick bay. That’s why there’s an alchemy table and I believe health potions. On my playthrough, the sailor wasn’t stuffed under the bed, he was on top. So it must have been glitched out for his playthrough
I will say that the invisibility potion is unsettling and does support the assassin theory. But I think it was just placed there by devs to help get you to Titus.
@@dacraka5476 or what if your playthrough was glitched and he was actually supposed to be under the bed?
@@dacraka5476 Nope, he is meant to be under the bed, as he always is in my playthroughs and as many other Skyrim videos have mentioned. Yours is the one that glitched. Also, it is nothing like the "sick bays" we see elsewhere in the game with wounded, groaning people in temples, military camps, etc. Only a dead guard, a dead sailor, and a totally chill "sailor." I think Camel is spot on, and @MEGA MORPHIWEENIS has a great point.
Yeah I was thinking that, so maybe the emperor is meant to die
Titus Mede II was a wielder of Goldbrand, an artifact of Boethiah. Boethiah's domain is deceit, conspiracy, treachery and sedition, also referred to as "unlawful overthrow of authority". Her followers may gain her favor by expressing will and through deeds, rather than words. What greater deceit could it be, than to stage your own death? What greater deed could it be, how great would your Will have to be, than to sacrifice your own life to obtain results you desire - to go against Thalmor, bend the knee on paper (as words are meaningless to Boethiah, only deeds matter) and then die to provide Empire with an emperor it's subjects could believe in?
Titus Mede II was the greatest champion of Boethiah in Tamriel history, and through his deceit, none were the wiser.
Wow... wow, wow, wow...
That would be incorrect. It was the Forgotten Hero that wielded the Goldbrand while being disguised as Titus Mede II. It's in Elder Scrolls Legends' story mode fyi.
But isn’t that another layer of deceit?
@@DuyroZeppeli That would just be another layer of deceit.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim Exactly. And it's canon. And it's another layer of deceit.
any one else want to smack Amaund when he starts shouting about where the Emperor is while in a tavern?
Every time. Sitting in the middle of a bunch of people "I STILL WANT THE EMPEROR DEAD!" well... okay, just tell the whole legion while you're at it...
Shanna Semenza every time all I can think is "amateur"
Yeah,and whiterun’s political climate is generally loyal to the empire too
I think it was brilliant, because it also suggests to the player about "tying up loose ends" by killing him, thus leaving Rexus a.k.a. the real Amaund Mottiere to get back to Cyrodil, without having drawn attention to himself.
@@Mathadar I mean that didn't work out well for him in my play through as I assassinated Rexus on the way out just to be sure.
I enjoy that Delvin, immediately after starting to warn us about repercussions for killing a council member hes like "sure I'll buy the necklace"
His desire to collect rare items is stronger than his self-preservation.
@@gavinakrolin7997 hes just like the average player, we love collecting shit
11:44
Amaund Motierre screaming the top of his lungs in praise that the Dark Brotherhood isn't dead and that they are still planning to kill the emperor makes the rest of The Bannered Mare seem incompetent as to not intervene in this blissfully obvious scheme. And yet he threw a hissy fit about 'discretion' when questioned about his personal life. smh
Well, that's...not actually Amaund Motierre. His appearance after his initial is a completely different character model that looks vaguely like him. Enough time will have passed that players won't notice it on a first playthrough.
ES games don't do that - in fact, Amaund Motierre is the only character in the ENTIRE game series to have that happen.
TLDR: Amaund Motierre sent a decoy the second time onwards.
@@GoldenSunAlexincredible tidbit if true
@@GoldenSunAlex Funny I've actually had that feeling, when I encountered Amaund in The Bannered Mane, wait.. is this the same character? He looks different. Now I know I wasn't incorrect about this assumption. Interesting theory that real Amand Motierre is actually still alive and he somehow knew the emperor would want to take himself with him into the grave. And he and the emperor both had decoys too, wow.
@@multigamer856 Nice you spotted it by yourself! I didn't realise it till I saw the two models side by side when someone did a youtube vid about it.
My personal theory is that him and the Emperor were in on it together.
In the emperor’s room on a shelf hiding under another book the book kiss sweet mother can also be found which is a black sacrament tutorial. Just adds to the proof that he planned his own assassination himself. Although I doubt he ever performed a ritual.
For The Sake Of Gaming oh damn I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing that dude!
I just assumed he was brushing up his information on the Brotherhood after everything that'd happened.
Probably why he wasn't surprised when the assassin does show up in spite of Maro supposedly having wiped them out, since the Dark Brotherhood history is full of events with them being nearly exterminated.
apa123APA true, true.
Doesn't prove anything. Any Emporor would have had that kind of book with him. You better know everything that is going on in your Empire, especially that kind of thing.
I also found nightshade within a bowl on one of his dressers that holds no real significants tho I just found it interesting finding a poisonous plant in the Emperors room
7:06 "Sick flip babe... b...babe?"
I laughed way too hard at this. Perfect time stamp.
shitting and pissing myself at this comment lmao
hell yeah dude
Truet
therapist: “Titus Mede’s eye-mouths aren’t real. That can’t hurt you.”
Titus Mede’s eye-mouths: 16:13
LMAO
Nothing will ever be more cursed than Trump’s eye-lips. Nothing.
That makes me remember that video: czcams.com/video/JbepN4dKLbU/video.html
😂
"Don't you have all the information you need? Please, the Emperor isn't going to kill himself. Hmph. Now wouldn't that be a blessing..."
―Amaund Motierre
Now that line carries a whole different meaning!
Elaborate?
@@deiansalazar140 the video theorizes that he ordered the assassination of himself, which would be killing himself indirectly
@@marcosrodriguez.9753 but the blessing bit
@@deiansalazar140 because it's meant to be ironic. The emperor is killing himself, as a blessing to the empire.
@@will2brown50 oh okay, I couldn't see the irony in the sarcasm. Autism ya know?
24:00
I still love what he says when you're in both the Brotherhood and the Guild at this point
"Oh. Oh I see. Well, you're making friends all over, ain't ya?"
Raptormann0205 not funny
Matthewm 1802 shut da fuck up!
@@Mr_Peem Was it meant to be? >.>
Matthewm 1802 Shut the fuck up
@@Mr_Peem shut the fuck up
That Vici corpse launch tho! 😂
Lucas Hampton You know there is a gargoyle statue on balcony above ?
nikola jurican what does that comment have to do with anything? He was talking about the corpse of Vici which was flung into the air when she was hit by the arrow in the video.
Backflip for style
Lucas Hampton so beautiful
That backflip tho
I always feel bad for Vittoria Vici. She didn't deserve to die, honestly. Just gives the meadry guy more to mourn about than just his sister.
He died as well, bloody veezera came in and stabbed them all in my playthrough
Yeah that's fair, but apparently if you dig into Vittoria vici character more, you find that she sleeps with Aquillius Aeresius in solitude, who so happens to be her assistant and goes on to being the director after she is killed. She doesn't sound exactly excited to be marrying Asgeir Snow-Shod, if you talk to her before and/or during her wedding. It even sounds like a act if you listen to her dialogue. Plus, this might not be exactly canon, but in the creation kit she's the boss of both Deeja and Jaree-Ra. (The two black blood marauder argonians who plotted the raid of Ice runner in the quest in "Light's out") It could be just coincidence, but you have to admit it's a little suspicious. She's not so innocent if you look at it.
@@darkwolfag12 i never knew that, that’s so cool. Makes me feel a bit better when killing her during the quest line 😭😂
@@darkwolfag12 Idk lol, cheating seems a bit tame compared to cold blooded murder.
It reminds you that you are in fact part of a group of cold-blooded assassins. Innocence and guilt is meaningless, only the contract matters.
If Tidus Meade II had lived during any other period of time, he would have been remembered as a good emperor, even a great emperor. But he lived at a time only the truly exceptional might have succeeded and, alas, he was not Tiber Septum.
Except for the fact he signed the one document which was going to destroy the empire? At the very least, I refuse to believe that signing the white-gold concordat wasn't a foolish mistake
I mean, if nothing else, there's no way the Thalmor could possibly conquer & retain the while of the empire. Disregarding the racial tension that would cause, they would for a long time be seen as the aggressor (plus the racism) leading to a long campaign of guerilla warfare & rebellion
Once you reach that size you don't just "lose", unless you do something to foster distrust among yourselves
@@Altair1243WAR It was a necessary sacrifice. The Imperial Legions were reduced by 80% by the time it was signed, Cyrodiil and Hamerfell were devastated by the Thalmor and the elvish homelands were still intact. That means the Empire would have to fight through forts and well placed chokepoints with a greatly understrenghed army if they wished to "win."
This is of course only the military situation as the Imperial economy was in an even worse state. How much longer could the Empire even maintain the troops? Perhaps a year at most, certainly not the 5 years it took the Redguards to free their land. And this was with help from tons of "ex" Imperial Legionairs mind you.
In short signing the treaty when Titus did was the wisest decision, perhaps not the decision his people wanted, but a necessary decision nonetheless.
Besides with the time bought with the treaty a new generation of humans were born and raised. A generation that is now at the age to join the Imperial Legions, meanwhile the Mer breed far slower than men and have not yet replaced the losses they suffered during the First Great War.
Emperor Tidus Mede II is actually my favourite character in all of Skyrim, despite his rather short appearance, and few lines. His character is really well written, and exudes the kind of ambience you'd expect from a good king/emperor. I kind of felt bad killing him.
that's the thing, he wasn't a good emperor. If he was, his empire wouldn't be in ruins and crumbling before our eyes.
@@IRedpunk He can’t be solely blamed for the state the empire was in the Concordant was a better deal than they were going to get originally. His plan to retake the Imperial city was a huge success and forced the Thalmor to be more lenient in the treaty. The Thalmor were still winning the war in Cyrodil, they had greater numbers and where still in control of most of Cyrodil.
That doesn’t include the state the empire was in after the Oblivion crisis. Which happened before the Emperor was born. The truth is that he was dealt a terrible hand from the start. The video shows he is laying the foundations for the Improvement of the Empire. He was willing to die not in a last stand but in an assassination to help his people in the long term. If that’s a bad Emperor then Tiber Septim wasn’t a badass.
If this theory is true and he ordered his own death that means he also ordered his cousin's at her own wedding. He doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.
I really like the character too, despite for different reasons. It very much solidifies your assassin character as "Kingslayer" or "Killer of Kings" (or, inspired by the Witcher 2, "Assassins of Kings"). His demeanor only gives more effect to that title of "Assassins of Kings".
And if Bethesda weren't so raildroady, you would have the choice to spare him, the quest advancing to an alternate ending. We can all dream...
That conversation with Titus Mede really proved to me he deserved to be emperor, regardless of his heritage. He reminded me so strongly of Uriel Septim VII in his final moments, it was uncanny, and likely intentional. He wasn't quite as mystical about it, but he was just as accepting of the inevitability of his death. Gave me shivers.
Most people who rule, especially for a longer time, come to accept that they might get burned someday. Kings and Emperors were the most likely to.
I've never thought about that
That’s how I felt as well. Despite the fact that whenever I did the Dark Brotherhood questline I knew nothing about the elder scrolls lore and was a devout Stormcloak supporter, I still got the feeling that he was a solid emperor (since at the time I blindly hated the Empire)
he actually was so kind and gentle when asking to murder Motierre i just couldn’t resist, a vendetta but asked in such a noble way…
I like the theory, and on further investigation, I noticed a few things... Not only did the emperor arrange his own death, he also arranged for a particular successor. Hear me out:
The targets themselves provide more clues.
1)The Gourmet was simply in the way, a means to an end- BUT, the impersonator had to die so he didn't assume the public role of emperor, likely as a puppet to the true threat that the emperor was trying to mitigate by his own martyrdom.
2) Vittoria: She had to die so that she didn't cloud the issue of succession, especially after marriage and the production of an heir.
3)Maro had to die discredited and labeled traitor not only so he couldn't assume the throne (as has happened in real-world history, see the history of the praetorian guard), but also to curtail his father's attempts to control the throne. His father was way too well informed, and was the only real obstacle to completing the contract, indicating one of two things: either he was not taken into the emperor's confidence, indicating a lack of trust- or- he was actually in someone else's employ... The Dominion, by chance? Who could more directly need a tool in the throne?
4) Motierre's death, if you choose to kill him, can result in you receiving an inheritance... From Motierre himself. Why??? Who was the "deal"with and to what end? The inheritance and the deal are not related. You're in his good graces and receive an inheritance in the event of his death because of all you did to help him gain the throne- which was his deal with Titus. Titus used Motierre as a pawn to arrange his own death in exchange for the throne, but knew he couldn't leave the throne in the hands of such an immoral man that would willingly arrange several murders to get it. Motierre's comment about it being a blessing if Titus killed himself showed two things: he didn't like Titus and wasn't helping him out of duty or devotion, and also that he wasn't aware or didn't care that Titus' suicide would be a BAD thing for the empire.
All in all, Camel's theory is sound, and using his theory as a basis, I expounded on it to create this further theory, which reinforce each other in turn.
Tony Smith... Basically Titus was playing Imperator
Okay, this is epic.
Good thinking. There may be more than just a kernel of truth to this.
This also goes along well with Motrierre giving his amulett instead of the gold he obviously had, too...he doesnt need something showing he is a member of the imperial council he IS going to be the Emperor.
I see your last point with Motierre but what I can’t explain how good is your theory and the theory shown in the video connectable as the Emperor would want to die and be assassinated but on the other hand why would Titus want revenge for Motierre carrying out the Emperor’s wish?
It doesn’t really make too much sense
You could argue that Motierre was so eager to get the thrown he was just being selfish but why should Titus
Look at him. Look at Titus Mede II. What an Emperor. I ADORE the interaction we have with him on the ship. His presence is so... respectable. He takes such a regal posture in the face of death. I am in awe.
And with uriel septim in oblivion.
Goobye Imperator....
What a man.... sacrificing his life for the Empire.... ♥️
The man is willing to send his soul to Sithis just so that the empire could have a slight chance at defeating the Aldermeri Dominion. Absolute GOAT
@@Snazzy12341 megachad. The Mede dynasty are arguably more worthy of the ruby throne than the septims
@@will2brown50 than the guy that conquered the entirety of Tamriel…?
Anyone the least bit concerned that Motierre yelled "I wanted the Emperor dead" in the middle of a crowded bar
Up next. Is Ralof ALDUIN??? Tune in next time for SKYYRIM detective
No, but Delphine is really Esbern and Esbern is actually Deplhine. They agreed to trade names after Delphine was called a gay nord and Esbern couldn't find a Tinder date that wasn't a Hagraven.
@@meusana3681 this blew my mind how could have i been so blind
@@elgrantiburonasesino8940 Man skyrim scandals run deep
These are all far more plausible than the video I just watched
You won't stop us this time, Hadvar
I noticed something about Delvin recently during a playthrough. I did the Thieve's Guild storyline before even starting the Dark Brotherhood, and when everybody finds out about Mercer Frey's treason, Delvin says "It's like the Dark Brotherhood all over again!" I'd be really interested to know his history with the Brotherhood, since it seems to have been somewhat turbulent.
Delvin also knows location of sanctuaries and he knows contections that can repair them. He is really interesting character
I love how the Emperor is voiced by Sheogorath
He voices the guards in Oblivion as well
He’s the same guy for Shegorath in oblivion and his voice as the Emperor is a reference for oblivious guards.
Wes johnson
@@ethanheron8153 true
Did not know that despite killing him like 20+ times
There's also the fact of where and when and how. As you point out, he dies in Skyrim, then in the midst of a war of the Stormcloaks against the Empire. A good number of Nords may dislike Titus Mede himself...he signed the White Gold Concordat outlawing the worship of the traditional primary god of the Nords. But he also knows the continued Stormcloak rebellion weakens the Empire on several levels. First and most obviously, it costs Imperial resources, both treasure and manpower..something he wants to stop before the inevitable resumption of the Great War. Second, aside from the Imperials, possibly the most respected and worthy warriors the Empire depended upon were...the Nords. In order to end the rebellion AND bring the Nords into a state where they might be willing and indeed desiring the repair of relations between the Nords and the Empire would be twofold...the blackening of the Stormcloak reputation and the possible resumption of the worship of Talos. Remember, Vittoria V was assassinated while...and perhaps BECAUSE she was marrying a person favoring the Stormcloaks. To assassinate her would at least appear to point the finger of blame at the Stormcloaks or at least the more fanatical among them. The assassination of his double also makes it appear that the assassination of his niece and (eventually) himself, were not coincidental but the result of a coordinated plot. Then he is assassinated in the major Imperial supporting city and province of Skyrim. The fingers all point at the Stormcloaks. So, by dying in this way he strengthens the Empire in Skyrim...Nords pride themselves on honor...killing a bride, a servant of the Empire and the Emperor himself by ASSASSINATION rather than honorable combat and at the hands of the most feared and despised order of assassins...it doesn't make Ulfric's followers look that good. By having it done in Skyrim, it lessens the appearance of an Imperial political assassination...why kill the Emperor in Skyrim when any rival for the throne could do it right in the Imperial City? It also doesn't make the Thalmor look any better...they supposedly are in favor of Titus Mede...but they couldn't (or wouldn't) protect him. (As the player will become the head of the Dark Brotherhood and MAY have in his or her possession a copy of that Thalmor "Dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak", it could make the Thalmor even more suspect. Something about calling Ulfric a Thalmor "asset"?) And finally and most importantly as you point out, it makes way for a new Emperor...one who can, with some justification, refuse to honor the White Gold Concordat...he didn't sign it and I suspect the successor was not totally in favor of signing it. Revoke the Concordat and I suspect the first order the new Emperor would give would be the restoration of the worship of Talos...who was after all the deified Tiber Septim...the FOUNDER of the Empire. Nords would almost universally hold such an act to be a restoration of relations with the Empire. No more civil war, the blackening of the reputation of the Stormcloaks (and tangentially the Thalmor)...no more loss of treasure of manpower, indeed an increase in potential manpower...and a fairly honorable causus belli to restart the battle against the Dominion.
This makes no sense at all
unavailable No, it does. It’s the kind of emotional “logic” that politics is built upon.
You have a, currently small but dangerous, rebellion in a very honor-obsessed warrior province. The empire doesn’t have much of a chance to fight, as almost all of their soldiers are Nords, the very people rebelling.
Kill the cousin of the emperor in the biggest pro-imperial city in Skyrim. The public opinion will be that this assassination was due to her marrying a Stormcloak-friendly man. This makes the Stormcloaks very angry, and makes the Imperials look bad. 125% guarantee this fuels some Stormcloak attacks that we don’t see.
Later, an attempt on the emperor’s life, and then a successful assassination. This will be pinned on the Stormcloaks in the court of public opinion. Someone ordered the DB to kill the Emperor as retaliation for the (also DB) assassination of a bride on her wedding day for her husband’s political leanings. Remember, the people don’t know that the Vittoria’s assassination was simply a means to an end, and that rumors are treated as facts in public opinion.
So in the public’s minds, they KNOW the Emperor was killed as retaliation for the killing of Vittoria, and both killings were politically influenced by the Stormcloak rebellion. Instantly the Stormcloaks look like horrific, dishonorable terrorists who retaliate in the worst possible way. All but the most diehard Stormcloak supporters will INSTANTLY turn away from the rebellion and fully support the empire.
Without the rebellion weakening the empire, they’ll stand a better chance against the Thalmor.
Blue 2003 Toyota Echo - Vici’s assassination is what bothers me. I’d have put it out publicly that the emperor was going the use his cousin’s wedding as an excuse to come to Skyrim and broker a peace deal. After he’s dead, put out the rumor that the Thalmor had him killed to prolong the civil war. The legion is professionally loyal to the emperor and the Stormcloaks hate the elves. With both sides pissed at the Thalmor, the new emperor could come in and negotiate a settlement. Maybe Ulfric goes into exile and someone neutral like Baalgruff becomes High King of a semi autonomous Skyrim.
Vici’s death is what causes me to doubt the whole theory. It sows confusion instead of directing public opinion against the real enemy. That makes it seem more like a Thalmor plot. Pinning the blame on the Stormcloaks and drawing more of the legion to Skyrim and further weakening the empire.
Assuming Bethesda doesn’t go under before we get TES6, I think canonically, the Dragonborn will be the next emperor. It’ll be interesting to see if we ever get the truth about Medes assassination. .
I think that The Empire is Germany during the Depression and the Thalmor are the Allies, and the name "the Great War" suggests that maybe a hitler like human will rise and restore the Empire to glory while genociding millions if elves and eventually conquering Tamriel in the Second Great War.
Wait the empire would be suspect since it happened in solitude the empires main base of operations in skyrim, ironically this would make them look bad one person even points out he believes it's a conspiracy by the imperials, the emperor would probably be blamed on the stormcloacks because it was outside of the city in other words both sides will blame each other nobody wins
19:16 so basically, Heimskr is the one guy keeping the human race alive?
THE-BIG-JP- REILS Rikke is a Talos worshipper, and there is a worshipper in Markarth.
Which explains why he must shout until his voice eventually breaks.
No he just keeps the power of Talos’ Thuum alive by yelling it at bystanders.
I ALONE HAVE BEEN ANOINTED BY THE NINTH, TO SPREAD HIS HOLY WORD!
Balgruuf and many others still worship Talos.
Did Delvin's voice actor ever manage to sneeze durring his recording session?
"... he didn't jump out of the window (which I would have done)."
The Gaming Cathedral but he is old and a assassin could easily catch up to him and kill him or swim to shore and wait for the emperor to wait in the water and drown or accept his fate and swim to shore to let you kill him
Thicc_Boi_Matt you swim to shore. He swims to the other shore lol
@@gabrielm.942 or back to the boat and set sail. regardless you can shoot him in the water but it's still the best chance he's got
Truetrue
"The ship won't stayed moored forever!"
Oh, yes it will. Until I say it can go. I'm the Listener, dammit!
Astrid: Let’s take our relationship to the next level.
Don’t do this to me astrid...
Oh yeah baby ;)
Camelwork : "Why would he want to die?"
Millenials : *visible confusions*
I'm going to make a completely original joke. You ready?
Dammit I forgot it!
Camelworks is a millenial I think.
Why anyone doesn't kill Astrid. I don't know. She is just a users. You're a dragonborn not assassin to be used by some already dead brotherhood wanting to make a comeback. That already tried killing you before you meet Astrid.
@@stoneheart8220
>You're a dragonborn not assassin to be used by some already dead brotherhood
What an understatement!
Also, you can get Shadowmere (disputedly the best horse in the game)
And the quests are fun. Also, being a good dragonborn or letting someone use you/ letting a daedric prince make you their pawn is really just the player's choice.
@@paritosh4643 😂😂😂 yeah k bro
After performing a black flip, the husband casually stands up 🤣
At 7:10 i choked on my tea, that amazing death flip
SilverAliisza right? Just a tad dramatic for a single arrow to the face haha.
SilverAliisza that was amazing
Yes!!! 😂
don't know how I missed it before. thank you for pointing it out
Realistic ragdolls
Theory on Amaund Motierre:
Just a theory, however, I would like you to consider the evidence for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Just want to provoke thoughts and ideas.
I want you to look closely at Amaund Motierre in Volunruud......
And then look closely at the Motierre you meet in Whiterun.......
It's clearly not the same person.
Some have said and will say that the Motierre in Whiterun is supposed to be an aged/stressed version, but that doesn't make much sense since the mission could and can be completed rather quickly and even if you waited months, that doesn't explain the different facial structure. Furthermore, if one professes that he has simply aged, then why hasn't Rexus, who looks exactly the same???
There's also several other thing's to pay attention to that made me strongly believe the Motierre in Whiterun is a body double, aside from the obviously different facial structure and features.
1) While seemingly a whiny, snobby and spoiled brat, it seems Amaund Motierre is highly intelligent and capable. He supposedly formulates and puts into action a multi-layered plan that opens up the Emperor as a target. He seems intelligent and knows how to cover his tracks and tie up loose ends, it would seem.
2) In Volunruud, Rexus is there with him in case things go sour. In Whiterun however, Rexus is in an entirely different room. For a faithful servant who supposedly never leaves Amaund' s side, it was most peculiar to notice......I'll come back to that later.
3) Amaund Motierre is a descendant/distant relative of Francois Motierre, a Dark Brotherhood contract from Oblivion. He knows who he is dealing with, as his family has dealt with the DB in the past, and so is very cautious as a result.
4) When you ask Babette about the contract, she says, " The man you need to speak with, his name is Motierre? That's a very old and powerful Breton family, firmly established in Cyrodiil. Most curious........".
There is simply too much about this guy and the situation that doesn't add up. It's also most unusual for supposedly loyal Rexus, who is always by his side and had sworn to protect Motierre, to mysteriously not be by his side if/when you decide to "alter the deal". And then it hit me........
If it wasn't a body double, which is a smart move that we saw in an earlier mission involving the Emperor (this lends further credence to such a theory) then Rexus might be the real "mastermind" behind the scheme. Stay with me........
1) When in Volunruud, Rexus says very little and in fact stays back, to far back to protect Motierre, and observes the whole exchange. I also found it odd that he'd wear Imperial Legion armor which has never been seen on any type of personal guard outside of the Penitus Oculatus. This is a sound tactic, as he could observe and gauge the assassin's reaction, while having a human meat shield in case thing's go South for whatever reason.
2) Rexus is the only constant in this mission; he's there in Volunruud "guarding" Motierre, but not near his side when in Whiterun when it's clearly a different Motierre than before. Also, the Rexus in Whiterun looks the same as the Rexus in Volunruud, as opposed to the two different Motierre's.
3) This is kind of dark, but if Rexus is the real brains behind this operation so to speak, then he might have killed the first Motierre in Volunruud (just another dead body right) to keep things under wraps, and used a similar personal attache to serve as the Motierre we see in Whiterun, serving as an attractive target.
4) In Whiterun, you can close the doors and kill Motierre in private. Where's the supposedly loyal and never far from his side Rexus? In a side room that few would even check as they barge into the Tavern and them speedily make their way out after the deed is done. I know that many people may not have even noticed that Rexus was in a room off to the side. If Rexus is the brains/the real Motierre, then he could have laid out a tempting target, essentially getting the assassin to do the work for him this time and no one would be the wiser. And he could simply slip out the back door undetected and without becoming a target himself.
And aside from Rexus wearing Legion armor, there's something else, Rex is Latin for 'King'. Make of that what you will. I for one don't believe the developer's at Bethesda gave him that particular name by accident.
After thoughts: Are the two Motierre's you meet different men altogether? If you look at the still shots of them side by side, you can see most certainly they are not the same person.
The Motierre's are in fact a powerful and old Breton family in Cyrodiil. A sudden political rise after the untimely assassination of the Emperor wouldn't be to far fetched.
The member of the Motierre family that you meet in Oblivion may point to something as well. It's interesting in that you give him a poison to trick people (DB) into thinking he has died........
Motierre may or may not be after the Throne for himself, there may very well be some kind of conglomerate group he is apart of working together to make a power-grab for the Ruby Throne. Some kind of old school 9-seat Cabal meeting in a smoky boardroom in a deep, remote location somewhere in Southern Cyrodiil.
Cheers
Boaz TubalCain
That is very interesting
I love this idea of a puppetmaster who disguise himself as a loyal servent
Tl;Dr
Boaz TubalCain could you perhaps leave time stamps to the different Motierres?
Boaz TubalCain I still can’t tell the difference between them, sorry... nice theory though
Let's turn this whole thing on its head. Maybe we're looking at it wrong. As you said, we've been assuming a certain aspect of the whole plot is a constant, when it's really not.
The aspect we've been assuming is constant is, of course, Motierre. He's actually the variable. We see two different versions of him. Rexus though? Only one, and he acts the same no matter what time we see him. He's always distant, like someone being protected, rather than being the protector.
The truth might be that Rexus is the real Motierre, and the two different "Motierre" we see next to him? They're the soldiers/protectors acting in his place. This explains why he doesn't do much "protecting", and why "Motierre" visibly changes the two times we see him.
I think Rexus is just a reference to the fact that "Rex" is a very popular name for dog, especially guard dog
From this theory it's pretty obvious that the Emperor wants to frame the Thalmor for his murder, in order to turn the public opinion's hartred from him to the Thalmor, that's very obvious the first one everyone will blame after the emperor's death will be the Thalmor, regardless of if it was actually them or no.
Considering that, that completely explains why he want Amaund Motierre dead : since Amaund is seemingly the only one to know that it's wasn't the Thalmor that assassinated the emperor, he's the only one susceptible of revealing the truth to the world (considering his apparent position, it's very likely that the Thalmor were going to interrogate him at some point). The Emperor asking to the Dragonborn to kill Motierre thus has nothing to do with personal revenge or punishing treason but can rather be explained as the Emperor covering himself and making sure to get rid of any blind spot in his plan by definitely silencing Motierre.
This would also explain Motierre last line, since if the Emperor informed him that he also needed to die for his plan to be completely fullfiled, Motierre would probably never had accepted in the first place.
This also explain why the Emperor used Motierre as an auxiliary, because if he rather directly conducted the black sacrement on himself (like Astrid does during the Dark Brotherhood quest line) then the entire Dark Brotherhood would have known that the Empire wanted to kill himself and as we know it could have easily have gotten to the outside world from there.
In any way, this only proves Titus Mede II is a diplomatic and political genius that is not only capable but also willing to see the big picture and sacrifice himself for the greater good of the Empire and by extension mankind.
Probably one of the best NPC in Skyrim if this theory holds true
I like your theory about him wanting to pin the blame on the Thalmor, there’s one big problem with that. If the “truth” got out to the public that the Thalmor were behind the assassination, well that’s pretty much a declaration of war, no? As in, the whole Empire would see it as an act of war and immediately need to retaliate, yet in the game, everybody just acts like business as usual, not seeming concerned about another Great War happening.
I wish there was a persuade option to say, "Actually my target was the impostor"
*YES*
Why woumd you meet the real emperor then
@@igi1225 persuading guards that the real target was the body double still doesn't mean you've fulfilled the contract; it would still play out more or less the same way even if the Empire didn't destroy the sanctuary in retaliation
@@charlesquick9977 i understand but it would be kinda weird to go to some guy just to tell him he wasnt your target (even if you then killed him)
sus
Guy trying to lie low: I STILL WANT THE EMPEROR DEAD, CAN YOU DO THAT?!
The emperor replies: "Yeah, me too! For the sake of Tamriel!"
Mortierres decendants are linked to the Dark brotherhood since Oblivion, where you had to stage a death for a client also part of the Motierre family. Being an Elder counsil member with Dark Brotherhood ties made him the perfect man to setup the Assassination on Titus Mede II.
I think it's possible Motierres family is trying to become the 4th Bloodline to gain control over the Empire, if that would happen it would be an Empire with close ties to the Dark Brotherhood, which reminds me of the Morag Tong or that other group who worked for the ruling body of Morrowind. It would become a unstoppable empire with assassins at their disposal.
It actually goes back further than that, Mirabelle Motierre was a Dark Brotherhood assassin from the 2nd Era
"I think there's something wrong."
Me: Where's the soup!?
If you are correct about Rexus being the loyal friend of the Emperor then it could be possible that when Rexus found out about Motierre's unease he reported to the emperor. From there the Emperor sees the opportunity to sanctify himself with your proposed theory and has Rexus plant the seeds of thought in his mind. From there, our plot unfolds.
i like that explanation for that part of the theory even more . and it also explains why rexus doesn't attack you or do anything , when you kill motierre , and plants him in a more valuable position in the story , since i don't think rexus could even potentially be the next Emperor .
also , if Titus wanted everybody , who knew that he orchestrated the assassination , dead , wouldn't he ask you to kill rexus too ? he was supposedly motierre's most trusted and loyal companion , so he had to have known the details , at least simply because he followed motierre around all the time .
and , if it the Emperor's request was more of a vengeance type of thing , it makes sense why he would plant it in hands of his assassin , who might or might not kill motierre . because , trusting a 50% chance of success doesn't make much sense to me , when such an important thing as the Emperor assassinating himself being revealed to the public is at stake .
It was all going to happen, whether it was you, someone else in the DB or the assassins that were already in place.
There was the assassin for the Emperor. Maybe Rexus was instructed to kill Motierre. But, would the bride and the cook still have been assassinated, had you not got involved?
Trust nobody not even yourself
Nice
Jailbot Mark 1 👏...👏...👏
Jailbot Mark 1 *insert Spider-Man meme pointing at himself*
Stalin
XDDD That actually makes sense because time travel & alternative realities
Emperor Titus Mede II: Skyrims real absolute legend. The guy straight up says he knows hes gonna die then turns his back to you and stares out the window awaiting his death
I always felt bad cause I always had a kill anination, stab the back, slice the throat, ect and I just want to give him a peaceful death that suits him
I felt bad that I couldn't cut his ears off and make him run naked through Solitude shouting "Ulfric is the True High King, I am the Lowest Wretch, lickspittle of the Elves." Then kick him into a ditch, throw a bag of gold at his head, then watch the beggars of the city bum fight him to death.
That would have been a fitting end.
@Radium Rifle still gets me Stoked. I don't even play the game any more, but I won't hear a good word said about that no good, craven Fool.
@@rustyk4645 ulfric will sell skyrim, watch
@@joserijalkasyasyaf9723 maybe we will find out, if there's a Netflix series set around it....
7:00 can't stop laughing after Victoria got that arrow in the face and performs matrix like side flip, amazing stuff !
I disagree with your conclusion on Mortierre. The members of the Elder Council are NOT the most trusted advisors of the emperor. Well, in theory they should be, but in practice they are a bunch of squabbling nobles, vying for power against one another and the royal authority itself. Most likely, a faction of nobles wanted to see Titus II dead in order to see the new emperor forced to transfer power from the central authority to the nobility.
A faction which the emperor then exploited to faciliate his own death.
I've played more than enough CK2 to be sure of that.
Ever get the numidium in elder kings?
My bet is that Motierre and his faction of the Elder Council are Nibenese. Titus Mede I, a Colovian warlord, was strongly disliked by the Nibenese Elder Council members, due to long-standing enmity between the two Cryodiilic cultures. While the Elder Council was ultimately wrangled into supporting Titus I, the absolute devastation seen during Titus II's reign probably convinced many Nibenese councillors that it was time for a new Emperor from their ranks. Titus, however, must have anticipated this, and orchestrated the entire assassination to place another young, Colovian Emperor on the throne--Rexus--who could lead the Empire in the next war against the Dominion.
@@samuelwithers2221 Motierre was actually a Breton from a noble Breton family in Cyrodiil. Babette says it in the sanctuary and another Motierre has a contract for you in Oblivion. But otherwise I agree
I like how the emperor is such a humble man in the face of death. It portrays him as such a humble character, he faced it with no fear.
It’s not necessarily the name Rexus that makes it likely - it’s the fact that Rexus is wearing penitent oculatus armor. He’s one of Titus Mede’s sworn bodyguards.
It would stand to reason that Rexus had orders from the emperor to not interfere with the death of Moltierre, or to ensure that Moltierre died, even if the Brotherhood didn’t do “him this kindness.”
Let the assassin do his work and return to Moltierre, makes sure the DB kills Moltierre, and if not, then Rexus is to do it.
Moltierre speaks longingly of Rexus’ allegiance and loyalty. And indeed that is the case - but to the Emperor.
He’s not wearing Penitus Oculatus armour though. He’s wearing regular legion armour.
It's actually a genius move by Emperor Titus Mede II. Also you can hear Captain Aldis talking to the Solitude guards about their shitty archery skills while Commander Maro reads The Writ Of Passage.
Huh. I always just got the feeling that the Emperor was just relieved that the assassin finally came. He was a man at the end of his rope, so to speak. An ill prepared man thrust into a situation with no positive outcome. He was hated by his own people, and the Thalmor are still strong and powerful. An assassin was only inevitable. And now, he can stop watching over his shoulder and let it happen. But this theory... does kind of fit, actually. Going to have to look out for lore books when 6 comes out to see if they mention Rexus the 1st replacing him...
I have a follow up, though... A question I've always wondered. Why does Motierre give you that amulet? It's a unique thing that can be tied DIRECTLY to him, as each is crafted for each member of the Elder Council. And he just... gives it to a random assassin he just met that CLAIMS to be dark brotherhood with little proof at the time. Later, that same assassin is ambushed by the imperial legion, and it is always possible that the assassin might fail to kill the Emperor and be either captured or killed. If that assassin hasn't sold the amulet, the legion is going to find it on them. If they are so unique, it would immediately tie him to the attempt. That's not just political suicide, that's just suicide!
So why, oh why, does he give you his amulet? Unless... he wasn't actually who he said he was. It doesn't debunk this theory. If anything, it only pushes it further. The Emperor had someone claiming to be of the Elder Council do all this, to throw suspicion somewhere else. If this would-be assassin is caught, the man who hired him would be killed and the Emperor could claim that he is still such a threat to the Thalmor they're trying to bribe even the council. He may then purge the council. To what end? I don't know. But if he is killed, and it still leads back to this council member... well, similar thing. He may have been setting up a corrupt council member to fall with him, or possibly take out a rival with himself. Ensure the one member he doesn't want to sit on the throne never will. Why kill the messenger then? No loose ends. And Rexus... is the only one that lives. My theory is that Rexus... is a Blade.
I'm not so sure. I think perhaps Motierre had the favor of the Emperor's Guard. If they killed the Dark Brotherhood Assassin with the Amulet on him, they would just get rid of the evidence or return it to Motierre. And if the Assassin tried to get the truth out, which is unlikely due to his chosen profession, the Emperor's Guard would just cover it up, like a secret police (which is precisely what they are).
It wasn't a random assassin
It was a member of the dark brotherhood, how does he know?
The fact he performed the Black Sacrament and an assassin came. The likelyhood of it being a fake is extraordinarily low.
The people willing to sell and buy the elder council amulet really wouldn't ask questions as to who got it from where and how, all they know is they have an almost priceless amulet.
7:04 P H Y S I C S
@Terror it JUST works
It-just-works
When I played through the Dark Brotherhood questline for the first time long ago, it seemed incredibly obvious that the Emperor ordered his own death by proxy - so much so that I expected some kind of twist that never came.
An Emperor planning his own assassination for the good of the realm... sounds familiar....
"The only ones who should kill are the ones who are prepared to be killed."
Camel, have you ever been contacted by any of the devs about any of this? Any Brotherhood assassins sent after you because you've discovered too much?
Bethesda would be "Nah, all that is just a bug"
Titus Mede II is really an underestimated emperor.
Before I watched this video: "No way in hell this is true, you on Skooma?"
After I watched this video: "Titus Mede II, you crafty son of a...."
Turn in next time to True detective when we try to uncover if Maiq is Lorkan !
Good Theory
Some evidence: lorkhan is represented by the fox, for how he tricked and deceived the aylieds, but what is another “sneaky,” “deceiving” animal? The cat. Maiq has a title, as well. Maiq, the Liar.
Latin Lesson!
The word Rex translates as king, as mentioned in the video. But the suffix -us doesn't have any meaning on it's own (as far as I remember), instead it's used to mark that a "masculine" word is being used as a singular subject of whatever sentence it's in. Rexus's name is is merely coincidental, as Rex has it's own ways of forming separate from the "typical" masculine words that end with -us. But, good video all around, nice and entertaining, as I just may decide to play a character who doesn't destroy the Dark Brotherhood
But Rex is of the third declension and not second or fourth
It's no mere coincidence, you have to remember, bethesda plan these games years upon years in advance, since redguard they had oblivion planned, possibly even Skyrim
@NotJo no
If he really did plot his own assassination to help the Empire, he truly was one of the best Emperors of all time. Not only dying for his people, but even dying in the most helpful way. If this theory is true, that man has my deepest respect.
Although it seems more than a bit questionable to have the own cousin, the best chef in all of Tamriel and the son of Commander Maro assassinated during the process, not to mention the cook of Markath, his decoy and, at least in my case, Commander Maro as well. Asking the DB to kill Motierre makes perfectly sense, but the others seem like rather unnecessary bloodshed. Do you maybe have an explanation for that, Camel?
TheAmethysta7
I do
he's a cold blooded bastard, in the best of ways>:) and included them all to make it look convincing. He was the champion if boethia at one point, wielder of goldbrand so I wouldn't put it past him
I know I'm a month or so late on this, but... I can see a few reasons for some of those additional kills.
Vittoria Vici - One, her death makes things more convincing that an assassination plot was in play, and gives Titus Mede a reason to show up (his cousin's funeral). Two, he's eliminating family ties, and just about guarantees whoever his successor will be, they have no ties to the Thalmor or the Stormcloaks. Basically, a clean slate, not carrying any of the Mede Dynasty forward.
The Gourmet - He's already written a book and is famous, but no one knows who he/she is. Why not have them killed so you can have a body-double die by poison in an assassination attempt? Especially if one of your 'dreams' was to have a dinner made by the Gourmet, adding to the credibility of dodging death one more time.
Commander Maro's Son - What better way to enrage your Commander and get him to wipe out the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary? Clearly all the books the Emperor has on the Dark Brotherhood has shown the Emperor that the DB tends to make violent come-backs when you think you've killed them all.
Markarth's Cook - The only person who's ever known the Gourmet. If you're trying to make an assassination plot go smoothly, the last thing you want is to be dead and gone and have someone running around screaming that there's no way the Gourmet would do that. It might lead into an investigation, and loose ends left around tend to get interrogated. And if any information wasn't carefully swept under the bear pelts, your careful plan to be 'assassinated' is blown wide open, and the Empire appears weak. He was a loose end who needed to be killed. (Admittedly, this one's a little shaky.)
Emperor's Decoy - Commander Maro probably insisted on this after the events leading up to the assassination. One, Vici's murder, and two, a side-plot by Maro trying to kill the assassin (Remember, he did have a deal with Astrid that he made, but after killing his son, he's destroyed the Sanctuary. Exactly as planned, perhaps?) Three, it's more credible as the "Assassins are after me" situation if you lose a decoy through a poisoning.
Commander Maro - Loose ends, after all. Could look at it as a mercy-killing. You've killed his son, made his family name a joke, killed the Emperor right under his nose, and he's the only one who knows the Dark Brotherhood was nearly wiped off the map. By killing him, the Dark Brotherhood ends up being unknown in size, and the People get to see him as the weak-link in the chain when all the dust settles. As he has no further family (that we know of, at least) it doesn't trash a family name that matters, and makes the Assassination Plot more credible in the end. Could also be seen as a brutal revenge-plot by the Dark Brotherhood for what he did to their Sanctuary, so it goes either way.
Just the best I can come up with.
Well, if Titus Mede II has a wicked and violent mind in secret, then this could make sense. Otherwise, I am not quite convinced. Vittoria Vici, yes, seems legit. The decoy as well, and if the Emperor didn't like (or rather hated) Commander Maro, this could fit as well. But for the Gourmet and the cook of Markath, this seems a little too far-fetched to me. The poisoning could easily have been replaced by any other method of killing. Taking two lives to add like 1% credibility to your plan does seem a little exorbitand and cruel.
Also, do you think the Emperor knew Astrid would make a plot with Maro? There is no way he could have known about the Night Mother's arrival in the Falkreath Sactuary and Astrid's problems with the newest recruit. He still could have hired a decoy, being a careful man. But I am very sure the burning of the Dark Brotherhood Sactuary was not a part of his plan.
Oh, I don't deny that the Gourmet and Markarth's Cook were on shaky ground. With the information we're given, it's the best I could come up with.
As for whether the Emperor knew Astrid would make a plot with Maro... No, I don't think the Emperor knew. What I think happened is that Maro insisted on having this 'dinner party' because he had that plan in motion to catch and kill an assassin. I'd put the blame for the death of the Gourmet and Markarth's Cook on Commander Maro's head, honestly. A bold attempt to kill an assassin, except it backfires when the assassin gets away, and now has the sanctuary burned.
Now, I could completely see the Emperor knowing that Commander Maro would hunt down and destroy the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary if his son got killed. So in an attempt to back the Brotherhood into a corner, where they have, on many occasions, come back with blades flashing, he needed to give Commander Maro a good reason to bring their top fighters into the Sanctuary. Revenge works as a good reason.
Plus, one has to remember that Titus Mede II is a Warlord and not just an Emperor. He is a strategist, so it's possible he had some unknowable reason to want the Gourmet and the Cook dead, along with Maro's family. After all, we're only given so much information to work with ourselves.
All his family members would be next in line as for the son of the leader of his defense the death would keep him in a frenzy to kill the ones responsible
"Emperor got hurt in his confusion!"
The Imperial Emperors have a history of prophecy. That was always my theory.
That stopped after Oblivion. When the septons were no more.
Nah, he literally ordered his death so that his son would kick both Ulfric and Almeri ass.
Remember Francois Motierre in Oblivion, you had to kill him for the DB. Is this guy his descendant?
Adam Mitchell yes
Adam Mitchell There's also a woman in the dark brotherhood in ESO with the same second name.
@@jennyford1835 that's also the same lineage
I think he knew about the plot but was not actively planning it. Maybe the advisor planned this against him and he laid down and accepted it because he knew that he couldn't fight you and wouldn't gain anything from surviving. He wanted the advisor dead so word of him keeling over never gets out
He is an Emperor who can decide his own security. One who reads about assassins surely would aquire protection if he really expected them. He also *is* a veteran warrior himself. Him waiting for you alone really was the strangest scene in the entire game. Of course he doesn't have a chance no matter how many soldiers he has because you are the Dragonborn and the hero in a computer game so everybody should just give up as soon as they see you, but realistically speaking and in his perception you are just a normal Dark Brotherhood assassin, which means you are technically less skilled than a seasoned warrior in open combat (and that room only offered open combat).
This makes a lot more sense than him having planned it - without knowing his successor it's impossible to postulate the feasibility of such a plan.
That's more believable. He reasoned that the dark brotherhood survived, or thar assassins will eventually deliver the blow, maybe had a little bit of depression and self-doubt as a worthy leader, so just went with it?
I would love to see a book in ES6 describing the assassination of the emperor in detail. Maybe even revealing what REALLY went on.
When I killed him I had to look out the window to see what he was looking at because I was confused
"But we had a deal" No shit he was talking to us.
There wasn't a deal with the player leaving him alive after the assassination was done - only for the reward for doing it, so no, not really
18:37 "the imperial empire"
ah yes, and The empeor of the imperial empire.
Federal Federation
Authoritarian Authority
The department of redundancy department.
dictatorial dictator
7:00 - This is art, my friend.
There’s actually two Motierre’s that have ties to the Dark Brotherhood. In Oblivion, we help Francois Motierre by faking his assassination with a poisoned dagger, then resurrecting him and helping him flee the city of Chorrol. Then we have Amaund Motierre, who wants to assassinate the emperor. I wonder, are these two related? Is Amaund a distant relative of Francois? We do see reoccurring names between Skyrim and Oblivion and other games quite a few times.
I know this isn’t really the topic of the video, but I thought it was interesting to note!
When you looked up "-us" and saw that it was the masculine ending of a name, you should know that this DOESN'T mean masculine the way we use it in English. It doesn't mean manly or strong. It just means male. Like, in modern Italian, Mario is the masculine form of the name whose feminine form is Maria. This feature is common in Romance languages. It's just how you conjugate names for men. Think of Roman male names like Julius, Augustus, or Octavius (and compare the female names Julia, Augusta, and Octavia)
Still doesn't disprove the "Rex" portion of the name, which was the centerpoint of the argument anyway.
that is how we use masculine in english though?
@@Dunkle0steus no, I understand your point. Also unless I'm mistaken, as I have very poor memory, didn't he say the suffix us meant new? I swear I remember him saying his name was new king
@@Dunkle0steus I know how words work. I just dont remember him saying it was masculine suffix
THANK YOU, I work in the classics and study Greek and Latin. Rexus is first of all, declined incorrectly for it to mean anything. "new king" would be rex novus. Rexus is most likely just a play off of Rex, plus making the Imperials mimic Roman names has been common throughout the games. The -us is a masculine ending but for the second and fourth declensions, but rex is a third declension noun, and -us is not used in the third declension.
Isn't the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary the last one in Tamriel? So it's even more suspicious for the emperor to come to Skyrim.
Storm Trooper lives matter it wasnt the last one it may have been the only one still functioning in Skyrim, but when that hole gets destroyed you move to the one by dawnstar or solitude
Daniel Bolerjack by Dawnstar. There's no sanctuary near Solitude
Fishing The World then where ever the second backup sanctuary is when you finish the main questline of the dark bro
It would be weird if the Emperor, or anyone else for that matter, would actually know that. They are a secretive society, remember?
All of the sanctuaries in Cyrodil had been eradicated by that point, not necessarily all of tamriel. Probably none in Morrowind, as that's the Morag Tong's territory. I'd venture to guess though that there's at least a couple in Black Marsh, and probably some in either Elsweyr, Hammerfell, or both.
Oh man, I completely missed the other assassin on the boat! I saw the sailor and the two bodies but I didn't put the obvious pieces together! Great video!
Your videos are great and your detective work is deeper than the quests your analyzing. Quite enjoyable!
Your Elder Scrolls Detective videos never dissapoint, great work again Camel!
Ripple you’re welcome.
The Old Ones one kinda missed the mark imo.
Story of a truly depressed man...
and useless
But... he was quite at peace and self-assured at the end. That is not the mark of a depressed person, trust me. A depressed person would be panicking and disorganized, and lack self-confidence. He seemed to know exactly what he wanted, and trusts the player implicitly to do what, in his view, needs to be done. His body language alone clearly shows this; he is not sitting and moping when the player walks in, he stands and addresses the player as an equal, before calmly turning his back to them, showing immeasurable confidence in his course of action, and again, trust in the player
You’re videos made me start a new save file to really check things out deeper now, I always had a lot of hunches.
You are a genius. I am completely speechless on how amazingly in-depth this video is and your observation skills to see these obvious Easter eggs that are coincidence. My only regret is all I can do for this video is like it.
Does the emperor sound like the guards from oblivion?
STOP! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!
Same voice actor. Just like Lucien Lachance and Sheogorath. That dude's got talent, and is giving me so much nostalgia with his voice alone.
Wes Johnson
Wonderful theory Camel, I wrote a theory on this very subject some time ago on an Elder Scrolls discussion site. I will present it here. I also have a theory on Amaund Motierre that I will post here as well.
Did Titus Mede II order his own assassination? IDK, maybe.
Was he alright with it? It would seem so.
I am going to approach this from varies angles and attempt to make an argument for them. Let's see where it goes!
Titus Mede II is/was a Colovian Warlord/Warrior-King whose aware that he's become a political liability to the Empire. Even if he made the right decision in appeasing the Thalmor/AD, while the Empire rebuilds their territory, everyone believes he surrendered Tiber Septim' s territory to Elves and blasphemied against the God of humanity (Talos). He can't rally the troops or other province's around the Empire anymore since he has gone it seems from being a badass Warrior-King who leads from the front to being another word for craven. His every decision is suspect and the Nords think he's a weakling, along with many Redguards feeling the same way. So what's the best solution if not to kill himself? Or have himself assassinated? It fits with the Roman ethic of the Cyrodiil Empire and we see that Titus Mede is completely alright with the DB killing him. He's resigned to the inevitable and seems positively happy about the development. Mede ordering the execution of the 'person behind it' may actually just be him tying up 'loose ends' so know one finds out about this Grand Scheme. Mede II being assassinated by the DB allows him to end his reign in a manner that he can prepare for with a chosen heir ready to take up the cause/Throne. Furthermore, it allows the majority of the Empire's wrath against him to die with him.
Titus Mede II the appeaser being killed allows a Mede heir (or a chosen General) to be the "Winston Churchill" they need against the Thalmor. A uniter rather than a divider.
A side note: Do you think it is a coincidence that the book "The Brothers of Darkness" is on his desk? Bethesda is trying to tell us something with that. Be sure.
A different rationale is this; Titus knows he is a liability to the Empire, and he knows his credibility has been shattered to pieces by signing the WGC. Maybe he didn't organize or order it, otherwise he wouldn't want you to kill his contract holder, loose ends or not. And Amaund Motierre says there is or needs to be a 'change in policy'. Maybe Mede stayed Emperor and never stepped aside because he knew the Empire needed some time to recover. If he stepped aside or died right after signing the WGC, the Empire might have just fallen to pieces, right back to succession crisis. Waiting a while for the Empire to somewhat put itself together meant that if someone has the political juice or acumen to kill him, they just might have the clout to replace him. And I think he would be ok with that, knowing the Empire is in good hands.
Mede always seemed to be planning ahead, and is clearly far more intelligent than most gave or give him credit for. His advisors recommended rejecting the original Thalmor ultimatum, but he signed it anyway. His Generals recommended against abandoning the Imperial City, but he did it anyway. He then led what some would call a desperate attack on the AD to retake the Imperial City, which saw almost the entirety of their army in Cyrodiil slaughtered. Even when it comes to his death by the DB, he came to Skyrim against the advise of the Penitus Oculatus. He stands there and let's you kill him, despite the fact that it seems to make little sense to anyone around him that he's even there in the first place. I'm not sure what his end game is/was, but Mede seemed to be playing a much bigger game than anyone else could see. Considering the access the Emperor's have to the Elder Scrolls, and the fact that the only other Emperor we have any experience with (In Oblivion) took a vested interest in prophesy through the Scrolls, it's possible Mede may have been up to something only he knew.
There are some paradigms to be drawn towards Mede's actions and the socio-political nature of Cyrodiil. He waged war like a Colovian and then tried to be diplomatic like a Nibean. In the latter case, we can't really say as of yet whether he succeeded or failed, as we're not really sure about the political climate after Skyrim and the attitudes towards Mede in Cyrodiil at present. Still, it's safe to say that he was losing political support and had he just stepped down, that lack of support would almost certainly had carried over to his successor. The sins of the father and all that.
By being assassinated, he takes his sins with him, ensuring whatever successor replaces him starts with a blank slate.
And an army on the Dominion's border............ Cheers
I've never actually played this game and I dont quite know how I ended up watching your videos but I love them. says alot about you to be fair. thanks for the videos fella.
This is a great theory. Its either this or The Emperor knew someone close to him wanted him dead and started researching The Dark Brotherhood looking for possible ways to counter it. When he learned that he could do nothing he gave up. I prefer your version though especially considering he could have just fortified his defenses if he really wanted, instead of staying out in the open with minimal guards. DB assassins aren't really supernatural after all. They can be stopped.
Why are you greeting us with ,,Welcome ladies and gentleman'' and not ,,Welcome moon and star''?
Nerevar moon & star
I know this doesn’t have anything to do with lore but the last Montierre we interact with in The Elder Scrolls hired the Dark Brotherhood to “Assassinate” himself
I know, that's why I put the word assassinate in quotes
And Elder Scrolls 6 is most likely going to take place in Hammerfell.. the Redguards were the only other people to oppose in a rebellion besides the Nords.. just something to think about.
such a great video. i love how well you cover the possibilities.
Can you throughly investigate the Silver Hand?
They're renamed bandits with no given backstory. The end. :P
@@Lichdemonz Not true, that's incorrect
I've seen a theory that suggested they were ex-Companions that went against the offer of lycanthropy. How else would they know that the Companions were werewolves?
@@banessuperbrutalmetalfunti2561 Exqctly man exactly
@@wintersinferno9779 Well no actually he's still wrong due to the simple fact that bandits have backstories, well at least some of them, heck, even some of them have names! for christ sake, as well as special weapons, some even legendary or enchanted
What I like about how these videos are put together is everytime you make a point and I think of a reason that doesnt make sense, you then address it right afterward. Well put together.
I thought it was fairly obvious that Mede arranged or at least accepted his own death.
What's more, I think he came to Skyrim because of the reveal of a new Dragonborn. Considering the lineage of emperor's was one of dragonborns, allowing a new one to become emperor as result of his struggles would put forth a powerful champion for others to follow.
I would not be surprised if the canonical storyline revealed in ES VI had the player character ascend to the imperial throne.
Dude I've literally always thought the same thing
Aha! I actually thought about this when doing this quest for the first time. Glad to see it get discussed.
TESVI takes place in a dragonbreak. All of the games do. During a Dragonbreak, the timeline is unstable. Everyone knows that something happened, but they don't know the specifics.
Every quest and option happens. If the player doesn't join the DB, then another assassin will kill the emperor.
Every option has to happen.
Big Z To the best of my knowledge, only Daggerfall happens during a Dragonbreak event. All the other games have canon endings and specific events from one main storyline. Daggerfall has six or eight possible outcomes, and required the creation of the Dragonbreak concept to retcon the whole thing so the writers didn't have to choose a specific. It's also why none of the later games have multiple endings.
Big Z rumors, the emperor either died in Skyrim of assignation or old age, he was old, there are rumors of either happening, the the emperor died
The Elder Scrolls time lines are confusing.....
Big Z isnt VI 6
Kyle Pietrusiewicz no he was killed by the listener thats canon. the listener may or may not have been the dragon borm
There are many great mysteries in the Elder Scrolls lore, the greatest of which is:
Why don't the Jarls buy some long sticks with pointy bits, typically made of metal
I just watched that
How ironic
@Winterhold Guard foolhardy skyrim parody
I got into an arguement with a friend about this.
Again, Camel, thank you for pointing us in the right direction in all our thoughts. Wonderful bit of enlightening us as players. Great story telling, please, keep these wonderful and enlightening videos coming.
damn got me up at 4:30 in the morning for this. it's worth it tho
As for Mortiere saying "How could you" and who he actually refers to, you could try to play the game with a language where the word "you" differs depending on if one speaks to a male or female, using a female character. It's a long shot but it may work!
Simon André any uptade on this?
We need to know!!!
He doesn't say, "How could you", he says, "but... we had a deal".
Also, I don't think the gender of the word has anything to do with the gender the sentence references. For instance, the Old English word for Woman (wīf) is not a feminine word, it is a neuter word.
Very engaging, very swaying theory! Thanks for uploading!
Beeing his plan from the start seems unlikely. If the emperor had made a deal with Motierre so why have all the extra targets murdered, including his cousin?