I WASN'T EXPECTING THIS! Can a cheap cymbal be modified to satisfy a snobby collector?
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2024
- The Jazz Drummer's Blueprint
www.timmetz.com/jazz-drummers...
Be sure to check out Timothy Roberts' video on how he modified this cymbal here:
• CHEAP Cymbal Makeover?...
Timothy Roberts:
reveriedrums.com/shop
Timothy Roberts Pic by Jonathan Collin Greene - www.drumosophy.com
So a while ago I sent off a Sabian XS20 that I bought used at Guitar Center to Timothy Roberts to have him modify it. I was not expecting what I got back from him at all. I was completely blown away by what Tim was able to create. Cymbal modification is an art and I am so amazed by the transformation on this particular cymbal. I hope you enjoy!
I'm not surprised at all. An XS20 is simply a cast B20 cymbal which hasn't gone through the whole expensive time-consuming process of making it sound great. It was essentially unfinished. Tim finished it. He did an amazing job but the raw material was there already.
That's exactly what I was thinking as well. Never tried it though. Really blown away with the results!
He thinned it out, and it is not the same type of ride, so not good for most rock anymore but more rather for Jazz now, right?
I luv it 🙌❤️🔥🥁
@@CatabductionsAnoym I was thinking the cymbal sounded pretty solid for $60 TBH. Maybe not for jazz, but I don't think I'd be able to tell you that this wasn't a Zildjian A or A custom medium, or a Sabian AA or AAX medium just by listening to it.
I wanna see Tim do that with a b8 ride cymbal. Now THAT would be impressive 😂
I'm always amazed by Timothy Roberts's cymbal making videos.
Likewise!
I’m convinced, I just made the order!
New ride here we come!
He’s arguably the greatest cymbal maker in the US right now.
Paul francis and tim roberts for sure
I’m still giving the nod to Paul Francis, if you’ve ever heard him talk about cymbals for 12+ hours you know hes the American cymbal grandmaster if there ever was one 😂
if you look outside youtube there’s a lot!!!
That cymbal has a lot of fire in it, you make it sound great. I got here from Tim Roberts' video. Congrats to you both!
Wow - that's quite an improvement!
Very nice. I have had 2 cymbals modified by Timothy. He does a great job. The 20 inch Sabian Artisan Vault ride that he very recently modified for me is fantastic.
I bet it’s incredible!
Man so glad you came back to make videos again
Thanks so much!
your kit sounds SOOO GOOOD i love it
The expression on your face when you tried out the unmodded cymbal is priceless. I was doing a similar thing with my face and going, “Ouch, my ears! Please make it stop!”
That said (and having watched Timothy’s video), I’ll just say that I think I’m more partial to the unriveted version. But in any event-night and day, man, night and day . . .
I might agree with you. I’m keeping the rivets in until I decide I want to check it out without them.
I didn’t hear anything wrong with it, then again I’m not much of a stickler for cymbals even if I’m a big sound design guy when it comes to audio and I’m not much of a cymbal guy either
The question isn't "Can it be done?", but "Can it be done for substantially less than just buying an expensive cymbal?".
Right. In watching this vid, you see exactly why pricey cymbals cost as much as they do. In 1987, a Sabian 16” AA Sound Control crash cost $79. Thirty-seven years later, inflation has doubled… and then nearly doubled again. When I look online I see AA 16” cymbals selling for $279. Given my memory of the old prices it seems to cost a fortune, but it’s really right inline with the math of a relatively reasonable 3% average annal inflation. So a $400 hand hammered crash would not be unreasonable.
For sure. I hit my local Music Go Round and find some fantastic cymbals for low bucks. Due to inflation, I see the fairly common XS20 20" rides run about 60-80 bucks now, but they are not bad cymbals at all for folks on a budget. I would recommend them to cash strapped folks. I just spend another 20-90 bucks and pick up some really decent Zildjians and Sabians. I love the Paistes best when I can find the Signature Series rides and crashes, those are gold to my ears.
I absolutely love this collaboration!!!!
Thanks!
Tim is an incredibly talented craftsman. Sounds awesome. He transformed couple of Paiste 404s for me. They are pure magic.
Sounds so good
That cymbal sounds great. You sound good too bro.
Appreciate it!
Word? Damn. That is a complete/total transformation.
I can’t get over it.
Timothy Roberts is a master! I have many cymbals that his hammer touched and I am so grateful!
Agreed!
Just out of curiosity, how much does something like that (the reworking of the cymbal) cost? There is a guy selling 2 XS20 rides, a crash, and hats for a good price locally. If I could get them to sound like HHX evolutions it might be a good pick up.
@@benpeterson7530At most $150 plus shipping. Reverie drums on line is Tims company!
@@benpeterson7530 I would say somewhere in the realm of $300 per cymbal with shipping depending on where you live.
After watching this video, Tim, I think you have convinced me to take a 21" pre-split Bosphorus Traditional Ride I have and have Timothy modify for me.
He is a magician!
Damn that sounds incredible!
Right???
sounded fine the way it was.
You’re no fun. 🤪
But why settle for 'fine' when you can have 'outstanding?'
Tim already did a video on the XS20 makeover! It really depends, if you want a heavier sound or not. Take the Neil Peart Paragon ride , who would use that for Jazz? Bill Stewart.., he's more on the medium thin side with the cymbal tightened down..but boast he likes the many heavy Zildjian rides too. It's on their site.
HA, fairly new drummer here and just discovered this channel. I only play drums for myself and am a full blown drum addict...
I waited 2 years to get off my wallet and purchase what I thought would be upper-decent cymbal set, yep XS 20's.
Played a full set of Meinl HCS prior and hated them, but waited.
I've been okay with my XS 20's - until now that I heard the transformation.
Crap, my cymbal saga continues!!
Thanks (I think) for this.
It never ends!
The smaller bells on the XS20 are nice too. A good place to start.
I used to have an xs20 medium as a kid. I always wanted to modify it but didn't have the means, skill, or knowledge haha. thanks for making the video.
You’re welcome!
Tim Robby is the BEST independent cymbal smith. His cymbals are insanely heavenly. They belong in Area 51. His content is purely amazing. He is very passionate about his craft. He also makes reverie jazz drums and percussion effects!!!
The prize of used Sabian XS just doubled ... Cool idea and a good video too!
😂 yeah, at least for a while.
yeah. but whats the cost to mail it to tim and back and for the process?
Fun video! Just found this channel. Might I suggest to a fellow jazz drummer who tunes his bass drum in the bebop style, and feathers the bass drum: Try a lamb's wool beater. At first they are too soft, but once they break in a bit, you'll be "felt not heard" like the best of them. Thanks for the great video. Cheers,
Thanks! I’ve tried them many times in the past. I do like them once they are worn down to the cork core, but over the years I have become more fond of the articulation harder beaters provide.
Great video, Tim.
I used a lambswool beater on my 20" 1966 Ludwig at a trio gig in a very live room and the bass player thought it was about to rain outside when I was just tapping the bass drum with the beater while getting my set adjusted, thinking the bass drum was thunder outside. Not saying that's a typical jazz sound but it sounded great in that room when I started playing at normal volume.
Lowering the tuning a bit helps the bass drum breathe a bit with that kind of beater as the note isn't as staccato as with other beaters at any tuning.
I think the unaltered XS was pretty good in its own right, albeit too high-pitched and kind of stiff. And I think I'd like the tailored version better with way fewer rivets - it sounds a little choked to me.
I agree. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. BUT it was for Tim and he likes it so...
I agree the rivets choke it, but I’m okay with that for now. I’ll probably take them out at some point.
I’ve always been a fan of the xs20 line. I have had a few of them over the years. I especially love the hi hats.
I do love it! Also, I can always take the rivets out when I’m ready. I’m just living the sound as it is right now.
@@TimMetz What is it about the hats? Very punchy or something like that?
Can't really make an informed decision until you hear it in a band. (My scdr is magic in a band setting but a little harsh in the practice room)
A few Weeks ago this video came out. Im goad i got to see it
whoa thats crazy, ive never seen a cymbal similar to that except for in this video
Not hitting the bell more during the demo is a real tragedy
A great teacher of mine used to say, “Leave em wanting more.”
Sounded better to me (spang-a-langing) before doing anything to it
Unbelievable!
I know right???
well of course he said "yes"...
you're Tim F**king Metz :o
🤣
bell and crashability sound good, not a fan of the wash, sounds different for sure, but better? not sure, this guy is a great drummer and between him a mic, he even made the crappy b20 sound decent.
Do you play your Funch lots?
When he played it in the original state, I had no idea what was wrong with it. Sounded fine to my beginner's ears.
It sounded fine. I agree. Nothing to do with beginner ears.
Wrong for jazz, not because it was a bad cymbal. Too heavy, too loud, too much ping... It's more rock oriented.
Definitely dried it out, almost sounds like my Istanbul K dance ride.
How do I send Timothy my cymbal?
Sounds like an old K now......Good job.
4:08
Nice
Bro, the xs 16 medium thin was my favorite cymbal :(
am i the only one who thought " dang, tim metz is literally making the BEFORE sound good " like when you've got that real learned touch, you can make a horrid xs20 sound not too bad at all. kind of gave me joe morello/elvin jones vibes!
You're too kind! Thank you!
Yes, that makes 75% of my time and work... turning customers B20 cymbals from trash to treasure... there are some other cheap to mid priced B20 out there that can be turned to real gems!!! Maybe I´ll tell you later ;)
i.. kinda liked it more without the rivets....
I’ll likely be taking them out soon.
lol. i prefer darker rides. wash makes my ears itchy😂
Also, not hitting your OTHER cymbal for a comparison was a completely missed opportunity.
Gotta have content for another video!
What a teeny tiny world. Not sure how i wound up here, besides briefly viewing Tim Roberts mod on this cymbal…..anyways, I found It amusing that I purchased that first 39.99 “cast” cymbal you were checking out in beginning of this video…..was back in Sept….I was eyeing the hammering …….it is a Wuhan Heavy Ride…..damb Far Eastern Ks
No way! I almost pulled the trigger on that too. lol!
@@TimMetz I believe you might have left this buttery beast alone……..
@@zacharymallilo Wow! That's crazy! I'm glad you got a good one!
@@TimMetz ha yes….……thank you ….just got a few minutes smashing right alongside a 20” NewStamp …….
niceee
it just sounds more rattly to me instead of more pingy?..but its hard to tell over the internet and compression and such..your playing makes either one sound good to me though.
Sometimes I feel like I can't trust my ear. The modified cymbal sounds clangy and muted to my ear. The original one sounds better except when you try to crash it.
All of you are saying the modified version sounds better, though. I know I should pick what I like if I'm playing for my own enjoyment. If I'm trying to sound professional, however, should I go with what others think sounds great? The thought is that if the people I'm playing with think it sounds better, isn't that what matters for professional use? Kind of like how session bassists always being a P-Bass to the studio, even if they hate playing a P-Bass, because recording engineers know how to make a P sit in the mix?
You can like what you like and play what your ear hears. There’s a lot more to a cymbal sound than just the cymbal most importantly is touch. A great drummer can make any cymbal sound good.
If I had to play the xs20 in its original form on a gig, I would make it work. It would inspire me to play differently. That’s what all your gear should do, inspire. Hope this helps!
Sounds a bit mellow and undefined for my taste.
It's funny, cause in this video the cymbal sounds pretty solid before changing it, but in the video working on it, it sounds like the garbage you'd expect.
yo at 5:23 u show ur adress on the package.
Welp, I thought it was too small. It has since been blurred. Thanks!
Nice for you, but we can't hear cymbals on CZcams... You can often barely tell someone's hitting it, but in no way hear the tone, response, & detail... I feel SO sorry for people who only know "music" on CZcams...
Guitar center sucks , the Walmart of music, I do all I can to not support them with my money , but of course the choices are limited because they shut down most local drum and music stores , so yay, guitar center rules
It is dead.