That's the cool thing about Tim's work, you never know what can be done with a cymbal that's not quite what the drummer wants, till Tim gets to work with his tools.
I know it’s a year later, but I’m just curious about what you mean exactly? These things are all subjective, and to me I think this sounds very nice although completely different from the original. Similar to “modifying” a 15ft statue of a man by chiseling it down to a 6 inch tall statue of a bird.
@@DSCRAPRE I'm not the original guy, but he's probably meaning Z's are a rock cymbal so it needs to have that kinda sound and this guy turned it into a jazz cymbal? IDK just speculating. Also it could be cause original Z's are cultural phenomina lol
I love the mod - amazing work! I personally like it without rivets - would be a super cool left side ride with that quick trashy crash and great stick definition.
Kinda off topic, but is your lathe direct drive? I’ve been looking into making one and debating belts vs direct. Great channel! I’m learning a lot! Thanks.
Thanks Kirk! Yeah it’s direct drive. For your first lathe though I’d recommend belt driven. It’s much cheaper and super reliable to just get a good 2hp +, 1750rpm motor and use belts/pulleys to bring it down to around 300.
Hello! I have a 24" Dream Dark Matter ride cymbal that is a little heavy for my liking. One of the banes of ordering cymbals online is not knowing what you are going to get. How much do you charge for lathing services?
My lathe mods start at $85 and change depending on how much work is needed. I've a form on my site with all the info! reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
I'm curious: could the shape/profile/taper have been changed without cutting, by hammering, heating and pressing or any other way, so it remained a 24" but with the desired profile...?
Not with this material. With B20 bronze, you can’t go backwards to lower shapes via hammering. It would stress the material too much and cause it to crack. The way to do it would be by tempering and quenching it. That would cause it to lose a lot of its shape and tension. In that case, however, it would be really loose and floppy.
I have a 24 A Medium with a lathe line crack about 15mm in, i drilled 8 years ago (then mothballed in the rack). Makes me tempted to send off to resurrection.
Aside from the honeycomp style hammering, the original cymbal has a really smooth surface, almost like a mirror finish, I cannot see any lathing "lines". How can this be?
It was most-likely pressed into shape and lathed with a wide bit using a smooth and slow approach. That's why you wouldn't see the lathe grooves from farther away.
Those Z customs are good to mix with other hi-hats. I like how the Cymbal Project remakes those cheap heavy b8 rides, but it is good to have a variety of sounds. You should redo some western Wuhan's ride cymbals, but they are already too thin.
Not gonna lie, given how rare those cymbals are and coming from a punk/metal background, it pained me to see that cymbal cut down so much. It is still an excellent job and as a jazz cymbal it will do someone well but I feel like the soul of the original cymbal has been lost in the process.
With an oriental vibe. A cracked 19 crash became a spiral spring sounding like a cascading waterfall. Another cracked crash transformed into an elevated crasher. Or even shards of a busted cymbal on a sealed tin can rose to lead a samba squad. If you bring an idea of reviltalization to something, it can bring new beauty to new ears. Bravo Tim.
I have Mega Bell Ride which worked for me when I bought it in around 1989 but I really don't like it anymore. It's pretty much like a church bell. I'd love to see what you could make of it. Theres plenty of material to work with. It's not as heavy as that Power Ride (just over 4Kg I think) and it's not as wide (21"). Actually, my 13" KZ hihats could use a treatment too. I really used to love clangy cymbals. I think my band was too loud and I chose Zs to get my point across. Thrse days I much prefer a much lighter sound with a higher pitch
I can certainly help you out with both of those! I've got a modification order form on the website where you can place an order. There’s a bunch of information on the page as well. reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
im glad i saw this cuz my concept is 2grab up some old K custom or A custom cymbals size range around 19, 20 21 22' crash-s or rides ,. but is going 2 be to shave the shat out of them to turn rides into crashes ,. i love the bell on the old K custom welkl ride have not played one in decades however they are around 2,800-Grams or so on a 20 inch cymbal and we need it to me more like 1400 1500 grams you can hammer the crap out of them and dry them out as well or open them up but its going to be take a lot of the bottom side and umbrella out the cymbal and reach very low gram weight to the size of the cymbal then probably hammer as well and its ok if rides turn into crash/rides or crashes its going to be i still should have the K custom super bell still retained in the shape ,. and really to this day i have not seen a bell as cool or to match what ever weckl had them do,. most bells not that big,. the old K custom tho is Z like its they mixed a little Z into the K maybe its super heavy ,. i just like the shape ,. its turn that into a crash would be super cool , .. . and again make a set of them ,. i get a bunch of used cymbals and send them to you low weight larger sized cymbal set ,. would be cool ness ,. cheers :) '
im pretty sure thats a dyno beat, dyno beats are known for being pretty heavy and chunky slabs of b20 and the machine-hammering there looks about the same
I can never understand why some people will spend hundreds of dollars on a cymbal with particular sound characteristics, only to spend hundreds more to make it sound like an entirely different cymbal. At that point just sell the original cymbal and buy something that more suits your needs. Heavy mods to anything other than cheap/damaged cymbals serves no good purpose in my opinion. You'll just lose money, take away perfectly good used cymbals from the market, even potentially erasing history. I'm sure some collectors have shed a tear watching some vintage As being modded like this. Cymbal makers put a lot of work into their craft for higher end cymbals, it's like painting over another artist's canvas when doing this. Just something to keep in mind before modding cymbals.
My main job is hand making cymbals from scratch and doing mods was an amazing way for me to learn the craft. Almost every cymbal I mod is a factory produced cymbal, too, not an artist’s handiwork. People cringe when I post some of these mods, but I really don’t mind. I find this all extremely interesting and there’s not alot of real info out there about cymbals. I’d much rather share it and get the very few critics that I do. It’s well worth it to me. Also, my mods are not hundreds of dollars. I try to make it affordable so that people can send me their cymbals and get something they’ll love out of it. It’s not so easy to “Just sell it and buy something you like” in this industry. Thanks for the comment though!
You keep putting out good videos and great product! Haters going to hate. I got a giant with the sweetest bell that sounds like big ben. I might try to shape it. Thanks cymbal company dude.
@@ReverieDrumCo i mean you could probably just get a forge and cast it? not sure how that would work out but i think gm designs does something similar (thats how a lot of their cymbals are raw yet so thin/thick)
@@ReverieDrumCo ah forgot about that part. yeah tempering it would be pretty annoying with a full size cymbal. could still potentially melt it all down into bells/chimes of some sort though? i’ve seen lance campeau make these little flat bells out of aluminum and bronze before but im not sure if that’d be a wise investment of time considering a lot of your customers are jazz players unrelated: where do you buy the blank cymbals that you work on? as an amateur cymbalsmith myself ive always wanted to know where to get blanks but i cant really find much info on it
@@net6403 There's a bunch of foundries in Turkey that will sell blanks. With many of them you just have to reach out via email. I also get blanks from Brazil (Domene Cymbals). His are the best in the business. I do have a plan to melt the bronze down into some sort of ingot eventually. A forge is one of the next tools I'm going to invest in.
Some things should be left as is. These cymbals are quite rare…to me its like cutting up a classic car or cutting a vintage Harley frame. Me personally, I would have talked the owner into having a new cymbal made instead of carving up this one.
I see it as an interesting experiment. The customer wanted to make it something they would use and it has sentimental value. Not for me to judge whether or not it’s worth doing!
The cymbal is much more functional and musical now, I'd say it's more valuable now than it was before. Like Tim said this cymbal was sitting in a bag for 20 years. The ink stamp and the original make really ain't worth keeping if the cymbal isn't really usable in most situations.
@@Dsullivann on the contrary, given the rarity of that cymbal, it would have easily sold for a price that the owner could have had 2 custom cymbals made by Mr. Roberts…those original Z’s are not in great abundance, and a 24” is almost unheard of…it would’ve fetched a pretty penny on the collector’s market without doubt. It’s all good, I just have a differing outlook is all.
Oh man that is the worst cymbal ever. I had a 24" earth ride that was that bad except with more overtones. Great what you did with it. In the 80s Zildjian made some of the most awful pies in history.
@@ReverieDrumCo Music was constantly changing as far as what was popular so the gear had to change as well. Studio drummers were being asked to hit much harder than the 60's or 70's plus the addition of close mic techniques. Synthesizers/electronic drums were being used live so cymbals needed to have different functionalities. Metal/rock was becoming so many different genres so rides needed to cut through the 4 guitar players Marshalll stacks. I have a 20" Z Light Power Ride which sounds great! My college prof made me use it in the jazz band because of the cut! Paul Francis came to our old drum shop and that was an eye opener. There was one particular Zildjian 16" thin crash that I thought sounded like ass. Paul came in and we asked him about it. He just laid into it and said, "you just need to hit it harder" which was funny to me because I would buy a light crashes so that I can use them in softer settings. Great sounding mod! Kinda hurts me to see an old classic disappear forever though. Even if it's a gladiator shield!
@@drumswest yeah it was all about cutting through the music. “I don’t get it” is more of a comment on how much distaste I have for really bright and loud cymbals… haha
Incredible. Hard to believe one of those nasty Z Anvils could become a nice, usable cymbal!
That's the cool thing about Tim's work, you never know what can be done with a cymbal that's not quite what the drummer wants, till Tim gets to work with his tools.
I wish they still made these,
Absolutely killer.
Great video but hate the result given the initial cymbal. Thanks for sharing!
I know it’s a year later, but I’m just curious about what you mean exactly? These things are all subjective, and to me I think this sounds very nice although completely different from the original. Similar to “modifying” a 15ft statue of a man by chiseling it down to a 6 inch tall statue of a bird.
@@DSCRAPRE I'm not the original guy, but he's probably meaning Z's are a rock cymbal so it needs to have that kinda sound and this guy turned it into a jazz cymbal? IDK just speculating. Also it could be cause original Z's are cultural phenomina lol
I love the mod - amazing work! I personally like it without rivets - would be a super cool left side ride with that quick trashy crash and great stick definition.
Great process!. At the end it was too much off so ends up being a too low pitched large sized crash with extra short decay. Thanks for sharing!! 🙏
The result is a pretty exceptional jazz cymbal. I kinda liked the stage just before the final one, more stick, clearer.😊
What a cool finish product. Unique.
Love your drumming
Dang! This is sick 🔥
Cool video I owned a 20 inch version of this cymbal as a kid. I think it came out great always wondered how one modified would turn out
Improved drastically!
Nice work Tim!
What a transformation! What tool do you use to cut the diameter down?
It’s a sharp bit that I use on the lathe. Thanks Jerrold!
Kinda off topic, but is your lathe direct drive? I’ve been looking into making one and debating belts vs direct. Great channel! I’m learning a lot! Thanks.
Thanks Kirk! Yeah it’s direct drive. For your first lathe though I’d recommend belt driven. It’s much cheaper and super reliable to just get a good 2hp +, 1750rpm motor and use belts/pulleys to bring it down to around 300.
Love it
Hello! I have a 24" Dream Dark Matter ride cymbal that is a little heavy for my liking. One of the banes of ordering cymbals online is not knowing what you are going to get. How much do you charge for lathing services?
My lathe mods start at $85 and change depending on how much work is needed. I've a form on my site with all the info! reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
Crazy mod! Cool stuff!
I'm curious: could the shape/profile/taper have been changed without cutting, by hammering, heating and pressing or any other way, so it remained a 24" but with the desired profile...?
Not with this material. With B20 bronze, you can’t go backwards to lower shapes via hammering. It would stress the material too much and cause it to crack. The way to do it would be by tempering and quenching it. That would cause it to lose a lot of its shape and tension. In that case, however, it would be really loose and floppy.
I would have liked to have seen the cut down process.
I’ll have to post a video showing that process.
Thanks! That'd be super cool!
Would love to try them Live .
I love the bronze shavings in your hair haha makes you look like u have highlights
its cool until you start clogging your drain with cymbal shavings haha
@@ReverieDrumCo :O :O :O
oh nooooo
Curious as to what cost was for this project?
I think it ended up being around $200. My normal rates are between $100-$150 for mods.
I have a 24 A Medium with a lathe line crack about 15mm in, i drilled 8 years ago (then mothballed in the rack). Makes me tempted to send off to resurrection.
bring it on!
To think you removed basically 2 big honkin’ crashes worth of material from that ride is crazy!
Aside from the honeycomp style hammering, the original cymbal has a really smooth surface, almost like a mirror finish, I cannot see any lathing "lines". How can this be?
It was most-likely pressed into shape and lathed with a wide bit using a smooth and slow approach. That's why you wouldn't see the lathe grooves from farther away.
Well as long as the owner is happy that’s what matters.
Good mod! Definition good and trash crash is great.
FINALLY!!!!!! LOL. LOVE THE VID!!!!!!
Thanks Aaron!
Big job, nice work! That's an original Zildjian Z Series made from '86-'93. Replaced by Z Custom in '94 & so on...
Yep! Pretty rare and terrible all at the same time! haha
@@ReverieDrumCo I owned the 20" version as a teen in the early 90's. Fun for metal, but it was a tank so I traded it off.
I sold a Turkish K 22” once that weighed close to 9 Lbs!..It would break sticks left and right!
Nice work, but that reduction in diameter was hard to hear about 😂
Too bad there isn't a way to slice the 6400 gram cymbal into three separate 2133.33333... gram cymbals
Indeed!
Those Z customs are good to mix with other hi-hats. I like how the Cymbal Project remakes those cheap heavy b8 rides, but it is good to have a variety of sounds. You should redo some western Wuhan's ride cymbals, but they are already too thin.
That's not a Z Custom, it's an original Z from the 80s.
Yeah, I've worked on a bunch of wuhans. They aren't great to work with.
Not gonna lie, given how rare those cymbals are and coming from a punk/metal background, it pained me to see that cymbal cut down so much. It is still an excellent job and as a jazz cymbal it will do someone well but I feel like the soul of the original cymbal has been lost in the process.
I was prepared to comment with skepticism, but the finished product was undeniably wonderful
Some of my most favorite cymbals were born as something else. 18" pang became a 10 soft splash with oriental
With an oriental vibe. A cracked 19 crash became a spiral spring sounding like a cascading waterfall. Another cracked crash transformed into an elevated crasher. Or even shards of a busted cymbal on a sealed tin can rose to lead a samba squad. If you bring an idea of reviltalization to something, it can bring new beauty to new ears. Bravo Tim.
@@tommclelland7581 love it! Thanks for the comment Tom!
Add some hammering you might be able to stiffen it up and get a little sustain.
Yep I did that.
Are you finishing the cymbal set with thes left over material? 😂
If I had a foundry I probably could! haha
I have Mega Bell Ride which worked for me when I bought it in around 1989 but I really don't like it anymore. It's pretty much like a church bell. I'd love to see what you could make of it. Theres plenty of material to work with. It's not as heavy as that Power Ride (just over 4Kg I think) and it's not as wide (21").
Actually, my 13" KZ hihats could use a treatment too. I really used to love clangy cymbals. I think my band was too loud and I chose Zs to get my point across. Thrse days I much prefer a much lighter sound with a higher pitch
I can certainly help you out with both of those! I've got a modification order form on the website where you can place an order. There’s a bunch of information on the page as well.
reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
Man I like heavy rides but dayum... my 22" istanbul is 3724. Only 2 more inches and almost 3000 grams more!
haha yeah it's nuts
im glad i saw this cuz my concept is 2grab up some old K custom or A custom cymbals size range around 19, 20 21 22' crash-s or rides ,. but is going 2 be to shave the shat out of them to turn rides into crashes ,. i love the bell on the old K custom welkl ride have not played one in decades however they are around 2,800-Grams or so on a 20 inch cymbal and we need it to me more like 1400 1500 grams you can hammer the crap out of them and dry them out as well or open them up but its going to be take a lot of the bottom side and umbrella out the cymbal and reach very low gram weight to the size of the cymbal then probably hammer as well and its ok if rides turn into crash/rides or crashes its going to be i still should have the K custom super bell still retained in the shape ,. and really to this day i have not seen a bell as cool or to match what ever weckl had them do,. most bells not that big,. the old K custom tho is Z like its they mixed a little Z into the K maybe its super heavy ,. i just like the shape ,. its turn that into a crash would be super cool , .. . and again make a set of them ,. i get a bunch of used cymbals and send them to you low weight larger sized cymbal set ,. would be cool ness ,. cheers :) '
Yeah! I'd love to work on these for you. Here's the link to my mod form: reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification
Don't you bored transforming all cymbals to almost the same sounding jazzy/trashy/dry cymbals?
Nope! I love making and modifying the cymbals I want to play. It's the most inspiring thing I've ever done.
To get rid of machining chatter , use a slightly slower lathe speed.
Yep, that's one way to do it. We had to power through this one, however, just so it didn't take 40hrs just to remove the weight... haha
im pretty sure thats a dyno beat, dyno beats are known for being pretty heavy and chunky slabs of b20 and the machine-hammering there looks about the same
correction: dyno beats are the hi hats from the z custom series. this is a z 24” power ride, the precursor to the z custom series
Wow, Beast to Beauty, a Disney Story!
haha indeed!
I can never understand why some people will spend hundreds of dollars on a cymbal with particular sound characteristics, only to spend hundreds more to make it sound like an entirely different cymbal. At that point just sell the original cymbal and buy something that more suits your needs. Heavy mods to anything other than cheap/damaged cymbals serves no good purpose in my opinion. You'll just lose money, take away perfectly good used cymbals from the market, even potentially erasing history. I'm sure some collectors have shed a tear watching some vintage As being modded like this. Cymbal makers put a lot of work into their craft for higher end cymbals, it's like painting over another artist's canvas when doing this. Just something to keep in mind before modding cymbals.
My main job is hand making cymbals from scratch and doing mods was an amazing way for me to learn the craft. Almost every cymbal I mod is a factory produced cymbal, too, not an artist’s handiwork. People cringe when I post some of these mods, but I really don’t mind. I find this all extremely interesting and there’s not alot of real info out there about cymbals. I’d much rather share it and get the very few critics that I do. It’s well worth it to me.
Also, my mods are not hundreds of dollars. I try to make it affordable so that people can send me their cymbals and get something they’ll love out of it. It’s not so easy to “Just sell it and buy something you like” in this industry. Thanks for the comment though!
You keep putting out good videos and great product!
Haters going to hate.
I got a giant with the sweetest bell that sounds like big ben. I might try to shape it. Thanks cymbal company dude.
Good thing you don't charge by weight for your services!! You could defend yourself quite well with the Z as a shield.
Haha true!
Ooh he's a PANGY lad.
Wouldn't it have been possible to hammer it into a different shape instead of cutting it?
When it's this tall, hammering would only make it taller. In that way, it's not possible to "go backwards" to a flatter shape.
@@ReverieDrumCo Interesting, thanks!
Literally cannot crash AT ALL! 😃 you were playing on the cymbal and cymbal was not moving at all 🤣
Pretty wild huh!?
melt down all the shavings and make a flat ride out of it
If I could do that I totally would. I recycle all the shavings. One day hopefully there will be a US foundry other than Zildjian!
@@ReverieDrumCo i mean you could probably just get a forge and cast it? not sure how that would work out but i think gm designs does something similar (thats how a lot of their cymbals are raw yet so thin/thick)
@@net6403 it’s a little more involved with bronze. You need the rolling mills along with the forge and quench tank.
@@ReverieDrumCo ah forgot about that part. yeah tempering it would be pretty annoying with a full size cymbal.
could still potentially melt it all down into bells/chimes of some sort though? i’ve seen lance campeau make these little flat bells out of aluminum and bronze before but im not sure if that’d be a wise investment of time considering a lot of your customers are jazz players
unrelated: where do you buy the blank cymbals that you work on? as an amateur cymbalsmith myself ive always wanted to know where to get blanks but i cant really find much info on it
@@net6403 There's a bunch of foundries in Turkey that will sell blanks. With many of them you just have to reach out via email. I also get blanks from Brazil (Domene Cymbals). His are the best in the business.
I do have a plan to melt the bronze down into some sort of ingot eventually. A forge is one of the next tools I'm going to invest in.
Some things should be left as is. These cymbals are quite rare…to me its like cutting up a classic car or cutting a vintage Harley frame. Me personally, I would have talked the owner into having a new cymbal made instead of carving up this one.
I see it as an interesting experiment. The customer wanted to make it something they would use and it has sentimental value. Not for me to judge whether or not it’s worth doing!
I agree. I would have left it alone if I was the owner. But also I would have took on the challenge of tweaking it into something new.
The cymbal is much more functional and musical now, I'd say it's more valuable now than it was before. Like Tim said this cymbal was sitting in a bag for 20 years. The ink stamp and the original make really ain't worth keeping if the cymbal isn't really usable in most situations.
@@Dsullivann on the contrary, given the rarity of that cymbal, it would have easily sold for a price that the owner could have had 2 custom cymbals made by Mr. Roberts…those original Z’s are not in great abundance, and a 24” is almost unheard of…it would’ve fetched a pretty penny on the collector’s market without doubt. It’s all good, I just have a differing outlook is all.
If it's not being used then is it really valuable? Owner can do what they want
I think reworking cymbals is ridiculous. Sell the cymbal and get something else.
To each his own! I find the process incredibly rewarding and it's how I learned to craft these instruments from scratch.
cool trashy finish
Oh man that is the worst cymbal ever. I had a 24" earth ride that was that bad except with more overtones. Great what you did with it. In the 80s Zildjian made some of the most awful pies in history.
Very true… I don’t get it
@@ReverieDrumCo Music was constantly changing as far as what was popular so the gear had to change as well. Studio drummers were being asked to hit much harder than the 60's or 70's plus the addition of close mic techniques. Synthesizers/electronic drums were being used live so cymbals needed to have different functionalities. Metal/rock was becoming so many different genres so rides needed to cut through the 4 guitar players Marshalll stacks. I have a 20" Z Light Power Ride which sounds great! My college prof made me use it in the jazz band because of the cut!
Paul Francis came to our old drum shop and that was an eye opener. There was one particular Zildjian 16" thin crash that I thought sounded like ass. Paul came in and we asked him about it. He just laid into it and said, "you just need to hit it harder" which was funny to me because I would buy a light crashes so that I can use them in softer settings.
Great sounding mod! Kinda hurts me to see an old classic disappear forever though. Even if it's a gladiator shield!
@@drumswest yeah it was all about cutting through the music. “I don’t get it” is more of a comment on how much distaste I have for really bright and loud cymbals… haha
Sounds way too trashy now, almost like a china. Still sounds better than that gong.
Well, it was a project for a customer and this is the sound they wanted.
Ruined a rare cymbal.z good cymbals
The owner hated it, so to him it was worth doing!