Personal Identity: Crash Course Philosophy #19
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Today Hank is building on last week’s exploration of identity to focus on personal identity. Does it in reside in your body? Is it in the collective memories of your consciousness? There are, of course, strengths and weaknesses to both of these ideas, and that’s what we’re talking about today.
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"We all change. When you think about it, we're all different people all through our lives. And that's okay, that's good, you gotta keep moving; so long as you remember all the people that you used to be." - The Doctor
exactly
On point good sir!
Maybe I'll be Tracer
ELEVEN!!
Does anyone else think it would be amazing if they did a series about music theory?
I hope they do!
I think it would literally be the one of the coolest things ever
holy frickfrackpiddleywackbiofeedback I WISH THEY WOULD, I WANNA KNOW HOW TO MAKE MUSIC
let's petition for it!
How do we do that?
Hank, you are the coolest nerd in the word, I am proud to be a nerd because of people like you. Thx you so much for all the knowledge you and your team gave me.
+TheArtist 319 Thats philosophy for you.
What is, is. What isn't, isn't. That is philosophy.
Nerd is just a word people use to other people who they know are smarter or know more than them. It's a derogatory term created for categorizing people and simplifying things. SMH
Wikipedia :
Nerd (adjective: nerdy) is a descriptive term, often used pejoratively, indicating a person that is overly intellectual. The fact that I added ''coolest'' remove the pejorative side of nerd. :)
Stay Primitive My Friend It's overused. Don't mind me now, doesn't really matter if it can't be undone.
Perhaps a person is not one singular person, but rather a team of people that each exist one at a time. "Hank" is not one person, but the name given to the team of people called "Hank". So current Hank deserves his paycheck because past Hank put in the work and the money was promised to "Team Hank." Since current Hank is the only member of Team Hank, he's the one who receives the money.
I call it "Team Theory of Identity"
i have increasing been feeling like an empty room, referring to myself as we, and being more capable of diverted/divided consciousness.
Clayton Harting
Sounds stupid and genius at the same time
i have a question for you : which part of your body will identify you as a member of team "Hank" if you not an secret agent with the mask on your face
(+Clayton Harting) Dude… WTF… Why was this not in the video?
That is genius!
My fairly simplistic view on identity has always been that I am my consciousness. I mean, even if I lose my memories and my body changes, I'll still be the one experiencing it all. I may not remember the person I was before, and I may look different, but my identity comes from the fact that I am the one at the driver's seat.
"Does any of this really matter?" and "This is really your problem" is the reason why I'm watching these episodes!
Excuse me while I go have an existential crisis
Same bruh
Aha, jokes on you I came here cause I already had one!
shouldn't it be constant? our biggest problem is find the essential property, which no one really does.
"We all change. When you think about it, we're all different people all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this. Not one day. I swear. I will always remember when the Doctor was me."
- The 11th Doctor
I genuinely think of my past and future selves as different people, mainly because my outlooks on life, religious and political views, tastes in music, nicknames, etc. have all changed so many times. I feel like I inherited memories and responsibilities from my past selves, and I learn new skills not so much for myself, but in order to help out my future selves. Broadly speaking, I'm now in what I consider the early stages of my seventh identity. The only things which remain constant are my social security number, and as far as I know, my DNA and fingerprints.
Speaking of that... DNA will mutate ever so slowly over time and turn out slightly varying in different cells, and freakishly enough it's even possible to be born a "chimera" where you have about a 50/50 distribution of cells with wildly different DNA (think it's something about the egg dividing too soon and then the first 2 eggs getting fertilized separately.)
Fingerprints do stay similar enough to be recognizeable, at least, because those tiny mutations are quite unlikely to affect something on the macro scale; cells are programmed to detect big changes and self-terminate rather than multiply. But of course that system is not without flaws and stuff slips through, sometimes with devastating consequences as in cancers.
So yeah, tricky stuff, this! Not much stays constant, and certainly nothing that one can't point at and call pretty arbitrary. Regardless of criteria and definition of identity, one can certainly establish that the lines are gonna get fuzzy.
If you migrated to another country illegaly, you woudln't be received any social security numbend ,and you just have had an radiation infected,and you had new skin in our finger you wil be no longer you
Your brain neurons aren't replaced...
Also, a bit curious. Why do you work for the benefit of your future selves if they're distinct from you? Shouldn't YOU just put YOUR pleasure above theirs?
😅 Sorry if this is a bit unsettling.
Same
"We go to sleep everyday,but when, we wake up,our conscious selves remember who we were the day before."
This freaked me out, like what if i forget to remember ?!?!
The greatest aspect of your show, allowing us the freedom to choose our opinion on the matter, is also THE MOST frustrating. I'm trying to do my philosophy homework, and whilst I have some great facts, I have no idea what to think as you argued both sides so well. Thanks for the amazing videos!
I like how he uses modern shows and examples to bring points around. That's great
Trigger warning for people with indentity crisis
TRIGGER IS MY TRIGGER WORD STOP TRIGGERING ME!!!!
+Av Fenrir Stop triggering yourself unless variants of the word is okay.
phoenixrises11
Conjugates trigger me as well
In fact not. Memory theory can heal them, because they can't have double memories!
I can't even tell if this is ironic or not.
i watch these videos on the topic on identity and lie in my bed staring at the ceiling for about an hour.
I’ve been waiting this whole series for him to cover dr. Who. I love that show and it’s Part of what got me interested in philosophy in the first place. I use ton of the amazing philosophical arguments that that show makes in my day to day life.
I definitely believe more in memory theory. I also already think about my personal identity a lot, so I know it's important. So I'm excited about this personal identity section of Philosophy.
I am software, not hardware; however I can be patched, updated, and reformatted.
While I love this series and Hank for all the amazing questions he raises, sometimes I find myself listening just for that awesome intro song.
This series hurts my brain so much and I LOVE IT.
You're awesome, Hank. Don't ever change.
Honestly... I see no problem with Locke's theory when it comes to those first two parts.
Baby-wise - yes, you aren't you yet because you can't remember anything. Tabula Rasa - all beings start off as a blank slate. One hardly considers a blank piece of paper as a part of the Great American Novel, right?
Forgetting-wise - yes, you aren't you when your memories begin to fade. My grandmother suffers from dementia, can't remember her family, not even her own daughters and especially not me (her grandson). She's not the person I knew when I was younger, she's someone completely different.
Once again, I'd say that there's a matter of timeline to be taken into consideration - i.e. yes, the baby CAN be considered you because eventually it formed INTO you, and YES my grandmother CAN still be considered my grandmother because she came FROM my grandmother. Consciousness is the major determining factor, imo, but consciousness is only applicable while it functions - that's what makes us human, who we are, and when we're not acting on that we might as well be nothing.
False memories, imo, are just another part of that: your brain makes connections, but even if those connections are wrong that's STILL your perspective on the matter. Just like how on your first day of school only you knew what was going on from your own perspective.
You start as a blank slate, yes, but you start writing upon that as soon as you begin to have sensations. You would not consider a blank page to be a part of a novel, but you would most certainly count the first chapter.
If your grandmother is no longer the person she once was, you have no obligation to care for her whatsoever. You could leave her alone for you do not know her and shouldn't feel guilty, but I'm presuming you would? If so, why?
Josh Cottle Aye, the first chapter, but if nothing is recorded - as the lack of memory would refer to - then the page remains blank, doesn't it? You're a chapter in someone else book, yes, but your own book has not yet begun.
And yes, I feel this way. My mother, who cares for her, does not, however, and so puts herself through what I perceive to be unwarranted stress and strain to care for her mother, who cannot even remember where she is while she's at her home. I, personally, think that it is more humane to, at this point in her existence, have her euthanized, - and before you ask: yes, I have made it clear to my family on MANY occasions that should I ever reach that state as well I don't want them to hesitate to euthanize me.
+Josh Cottle Well, your grandmother, just like you, have both been changing for a long period of time to be compatible with other things, including each other. Therefore, despite the changes that occurred, you two would be compatible and caring and would respect and love one another. Change that occurs isn't necessarily a bad thing and suddenly destroy connection with relatives.
She's still his grandmother, just a different grandmother.
edrudathec She remembers nothing from day to day. She cannot make new memories, her old ones are all but gone. She is no one, more object than person - like a baby is because they can remember.
Richy Rich I disagree: because of the loss of my grandmother's memory I can't see her as the same person she once was. It has destroyed the connection of love I once felt with her, made her a stranger, made her no one. My grandmother, as far as I a concerned, has ceased to be - alive only if one chooses to think the body is the source of one's identity (which, as you can tell, I do not).
I've put quite a bit of thought into my identity and others. The idea I came up with is identity resides in how we change over time, in response to stimuli. It's not a static property, but it changes based on the experiences you've had, since you were conceived (since fetal development can also alter the brain and body chemistry).
Basically, you in the past wouldn't make the same decisions as you would now. But if you give them the missing memories, experiences, and context, I hypothesize that they would make a near exact duplicate decision you made. I'm not sure how this could ever be tested, but it seems logical.
An amalgamation of both those theories is the most accurate to describe most individuals today. Add to that your perceptions about yourself and other's perceptions about you and identity starts becoming rather complex.
i cant lie,i got super excited over all the doctor who in this one. ive been binge watching these videos and ive low key been thinking about doctor who all night
@5:05 Re: Chain of memory. I remember really early things... like nappy changes and breast feeding, being unable to crawl and being unable to stand, and practicing how to speak! I know these memories are real because I can tell my mum what was happening. I can even remember my great-grandmother who died before I turned 1 (although that memory is fading).
I'd say those early memories are formed and so we didn't "lose a couple years at the beginning". Simply the memories were not stored for the long-term (usually) because the events weren't significant - which is inevitably why i don't know what i had for breakfast yesterday. If a week old baby was able to articulate I'm certain they would remember birth.
And with the end of life problems. Are the memories there... just inaccessible to the person?
Maybe we simply don't know enough about the nature of memory for it to be the philosophical basis of Identity.
Though his appearance and personality changed greatly over time, at his core, the Doctor still retained his curiosity which drives him to travel, his cleverness which gets him out of sticky situations, and his eccentricity which makes him interesting. In that sense, the First Doctor is just like the Twelfth Doctor.
i think "who we are" is always changing, and is not so much our memories as how we react to them and the situations around us. our bodies are a part of who we are because we use them to express ourselves and our values. also the Dr Who in this episode was fabulous
Great video! made me consider things on the topic I hadn't before. Thanks CrashCourse!
I love Hank's use of 'her' for the third person, even more for the fact that he never draws attention to it
They took his face...
OFF!
No more drugs for that man.
Face... off?
Face... off?!
i was thinking the exact same thing holyshit
I've never taken a philosophy class but this made me think a whole lot
I love all the Doctor Who references in this, brought a smile to my face
A man is the sum of his memories. A Time Lord even more so. -Fifth Doctor
Memory theory works perfectly fine. It doesn't matter that parts of it are uncomfortable.
The point of the video is that memory theory doesn't work perfectly fine, rather than merely being uncomfortable to think about.
So you think that if you get amnesia, you are a different person?
Sloth7d
Except he didn't give an example of it not working.
tatripp
If it's permanent? Yes.
I agree with kant. If you loose your memory you become a different person. And if you then somehow regain it, then I don't know what will happen. Would some of the two "persons" that shared the body become the dominant one and absorb the other as kind of like a weird dream? or they would just form a completelly new "personality" that would be the combination of the two? I suppose only people who had really had Dissociative identity disorder know the answer (if any person had ever really had it).
Have you guys ever considered doing a series on communication and interpersonal relationships? I feel like its a subject that could broaden a lot of peoples lives in a really positive way.
I love these videos. I am going to watch every single one of them.
This is a fabulous course.Thanks to Square Space.
I'm surprised they didn't include the very popular idea of a spirit or soul that remains with you unchanging over your entire life.
+Steven Nicke Aren't most Philosophy topics "non-provable"?
***** But absolutely nothing in this video is provable. It's all a bunch of perspectives and values a person might have for what is entirely a human made concept.
Well, CC Philosophy is broad strokes on various topics in the field, and the religious unit is over.
Personally, I'm not greatly aware of anyone who spoke on exactly on soul being identity, either. Phenomenology of the Spirit by Hegel might be a good starting point, though.
The soul hypothesis has no explanatory power because it's not provable. It's just like the invisible imaterial dragon in my garage, it won't advance any knowledge.
Pyriold What in this video 'is' provable?
DOCTOR WHO
I love this show even more
this series has changed my understanding of life
What an incredible piece of work! I read a book with a similar theme, and it left me in awe. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell
I think our identity lyes within our memories, even the memories we don't remember. For example: when I was 2, I was hit in the chin with a swing (I got too close and my parents didn't stop me in time), of course now I have a scar. When I was little I didn't know why I had that scar but I always was very carefull around swings, never coming too close when someone was on them. Never of course connected those too things (the scar and the swings, I didn't remember what happened). When I was around 13, my aunt saw the scar, smiled and asked me if I knew why I had that scar. When I said I didn't she told me how it happened. So, even if I had no memorie or knowing that I was once hit in the chin, I still was afraid of the swings because my body had a kind of memorie, an instinctive fear. Even if I don't remember I'm still the same person that was hit.
This is something I end up thinking about a lot, not necessarily by choice. I'm a transgender man and people often ask things like "what was your name before?" or "what did you look like before?". It's complicated because my own experience is continuous and while I haven't always looked as I do now (facial hair, deeper voice etc, though that can also be said for cisgender men) the way I think and see myself is pretty consistent. It's strange that realising that I'm male and presenting as such is seen as so much bigger than tun of the mill aging and evolving as people that everyone goes through. Down to expectation, perhaps?
Philosophy made me reconsider my instinctual thoughts on this. We feel that we are the same, but in retrospect, I am almost nothing like myself from childhood, and my teenage years. If we were in the same room, besides appearance, we wouldn't share much.
I use this thought to absolve myself of all my cringe worthy past moments and evil deeds, and just pretend I am a new person every day. Works great.
Best Crash Course series so far. Love it! :)
"We all change, when you think about it, we're all different people; all through our lives, and that's okay, that's good, you've gotta keep moving, so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this, not one day, I swear. I will always remember when The Doctor was me."
This is a good video since it shows that the body and memory are not one's true identity.
But a constant element of personal identity does exist. Search youtube for the video: *Who am I? the answer to the riddle of the self*
I neeed a series on the philosophy of war! I've been thinking about it a lot lately, and it'd be great if you guys could shed some light and point to some interesting viewpoints
Enjoying lecture like everytime, get well soon you buddy❤❤❤
Best Crash Course philosophy video, because of Doctor Who.
For me it is a soul that remains, and that including our consciousness. The essence of who we are
Can't really prove a soul exists.
But then you have to answer what exactly makes up the “soul”? What does the “essence” actually mean?
the ending of this episode just amazing
Love this series.
"The mad scientist" looks ridiculously like Davros
he IS Davros
I believe it is supposed to be him
Sherlock
+Anticonny aka 'the clever one' (as opposed to the potato one).
IM DA SO WEAK
Between "the only thing constant in your life is your name" and "but for some of us, even that changes", my very quick thought was "well actually, all three of my names have changed"
RIP my identity.
I believe in the connected memory theory and im interested in how the the "problems" mentioned from the start and end of life are actual problems. I don't think they contradict the strength of the idea in any way, and if by circumstance your memory is changed and with that your behavior, you are in fact a new person by this way of thinking.
I've grappled with this riddle since 3rd friggin' grade when I encountered it first (the boat one). This helped me figure it out more clearly I think. You are a line of continuity. Your body is not explicitly essential to this. Could take your brain apart and put you in a robot, but you are still the same line. Or could just copy you into a clone or robot or something. Then the line diverges into two new lines and the previous you has sort of ceased to be and yet also continues, depending on the circumstances of the fork. The period of time from before your first memory as an infant, that was not you. That was a different line of continuity. There was possibly several lines, and each inherited things from the previous line.
this video is literally the plot of 'Ghost in the Shell'
go watch it. It's IN!SANE! (it might take you 5-6 times, until you can comprehend what's going on in that movie)
I think this is my 2nd favorite CC series.
I'm not going to ask what your 1st favourite is, even though I know you want me to.
LJ Fleming I'll just tell you; Astronomy.
This is my second favourite comment
keep up he good work am in love with your videos whether it be crashcourse vlogbrothers or johns mental flosss videos thank you
I had so much trouble with this theory! The Doctor Who metaphor made everything fall into place. Thanks for saving my degree guys
Please go deeper into this concept I feel it was vaguely touched in most corners no offense I just want to see more of it maybe adding in something like how the Consciousness of an infant can affect its memory or that the personal identity of a person can change with manipulation it's incredible how many ways it can go I hope I can see more of it
I believe in the deterministic nature of identity. Even if I am only 99.9% the same person I was yesterday, there's nobody else who can claim they are anything greater than 0% the person I was yesterday, so by default, I am that guy. Now I'm 100% the person I am today. Tomorrow, I may be 99.9% the same, but again, nobody else can say that. Compounding that over time doesn't change the math. By body or mind or whatever other metric, I may be less than 50% the same as 20 years ago, but that's still infinitely more than any other person, living or dead.
Hank, great video man! I myself study identity in university, not as a main focus, but deeply related to my field, anyways, I believe it would be nice for you to take a look in the Handbook of Neuroectics, it has a lot of discussion on Identity as well as other very interesting topics, presenting more recent views on the subjects, up to date with the more recent scientific advances.
Awww it's baby Hank!!0:49
3:49 whoah, wait a minute, 'Lost' flashback, I only just realized that.
i dont assosiate myself strongly with my past or future self, which is probably why i procrasinate so much T_T
I think anyone who's had a particularly traumatic experience can say they have been different people. Like The Doctor, though, the people that we become over time are all connected by memories and by the title that is our names. In different periods of my life I have lived in different communities, had different preferences, fears, habits, worldviews, and reputations. Due to an odd deformity that has since been corrected, I have even grown and SHRUNK in height several times. It's frankly comforting to think I won't always be who I am right now - that later on I'll be someone else, yet again. Life's much more interesting when you look at it like this.
Thank you Hank for not being sexist and for all the funny knowledge from which I got A on mid-term. You rock!
"What if you put John Travolta's face on your face?"
I'm dead.
This is philosophy. You never ask ,"who cares?" That's the whole point.
i really like the school of life's video on this subject. i recommend watching it
Love this channel
I think a combination of the two theories makes the most sense to me. For no particularly good reason, let's call our test case 'Hank'.
Hank has a particular set of physical features, like hair color, eye color, facial features, as well as possible unique markings that will persist over time, like blemishes, scars, birthmarks, beauty marks, or moles. Hank has distinct voice and speech patterns as well as mannerisms, behaviors, quirks and preferences. On top of that, Hank has a set of farily consistent memories, the actual accuracy o fwhich is irrelevant. What is important is that he remembers them, and they shape his perception of himself and the world aroudn him.
All this creates the somewhat fluid congnitive construct that is 'the Idenity of Hank'.
Hello, Hank. My name is Sam. I've been meaning to takl to you a bit more for a while now, but I can be a terrible procrastinator. I'm proud of myself for getting off my lazy butt and writing this comment. I hope to talk to you more soon.
PS In this video I realized that I'm older than you. I found this news... unsettling.
"A MAN IS THE SUM OF HIS MEMORIES! THE STORIES WE TELL OURSELVES! THEY MAKE WHAT WE ARE!" -Subject 16
Kudos for promoting Deep Look!
So early I can say I love this series.
The important thing to me is that I am who I am right now.
Right now, you are you. I hope you knew that.
I like you guys.
noi000 If you say so, Mr Solipsist.
So you THINK...
At the risk of sounding spiritual, and this can be taken in many ways, perhaps the only thing consistent about us is our soul. If you believe that it is what allows us to live as a being with the body as a form of external mechanism then the soul might be the only thing in us that is us and remains us throughout our lives. The body changes through growth and biological change and renewal, but there still has to be something that doesn't change and perhaps the soul or that where the body's energy source is located that remains constant.
Who says something is not allowed to change? I have already seen a commenter who regards past and future selves as different selves and beleive he is on something like the 7th version. I have increasing been feeling similar.
But how depressing if the thing that we once thought was truely us, has already died and been replace! However, there is solace in knowledge of our shared souls. Still difficult to step into that almost meditative knowledge of oneness with those who you have no memory of being.
The pay check analogy got me. Got one! Thanks a bunch
Man that was great content. Thank you 🙏
I wish he would cite where he got his information so I could use it in my essay :/
The body theory works at least if you except that instead of your entire body being the defining feature that it is your brain and the electrical Impulses in it that are you.
Since nerve cells don't replace themselves
They do though, kind of. In the same way that your body is a Ship of Theseus situation, each living cell in your body is also their own little ship. Although on the macro scale most cells are replaced by brand new ones manufactured in tissues, on the micro scale, each cell absorbs nutrients and expels waste, and replaces parts when they fail. Even DNA is repaired in this way. This means that, atom for atom, your brain cells also replace themselves by replacing parts one at a time slowly.
They actually do. New cells are produced even by adults, but nerve cells can live as long as "you".
But don't forget they form new synapses and stuf
Yes, it seems the synaptic connections and the rate and order of their stimulation creates consciousness. Replace your neurons, one by one, with any other sort of tiny machines that perform the same functions and your consciousness would continue uninterrupted, presumably.
The next step is to assume that with a sufficiently detailed map of your synapses, and a sufficiently thorough understanding of the electrochemical behavior of the neuron, a simulated network of brain activity -- in any medium -- would also be consciously you.
The realistic promise of immortality may be only a couple of generations away.
This is so philosophicalcalcalcal I love it
Kudos for the Dr. Who and Davros material!!
If you can remember being a person who could remember a memory, then you're also the person in that person's memory.
Why did you not even mention the idea of the soul?
i peraonally think as Me as a very tight group of people, that is helped by the fact that i have a dual personality, but neither i am bipolar or have a split personality. We are simply two in the body of one, and i am two at the same time. There might be some differences in some ideas, but we are in harmony for the majority of them and we look out for each other, closer than siblings. That helps with the identity issue, to be more flexible about it.
Due to a couple different brain injuries I largely forgot my early life, everything before about midway through high school, I don't remember any of it. My family has told me that I am markedly different. I don't remember a great deal of the bonding moments we may have once had. I don't have the bonds I used to with them, and to them I seem colder, more aloof. I don't particularly think that having some continuous fidelity of self is important, but I found it interesting how losing out on some experiences I once had shapes who I am now. This indicates to me that we are the same person throughout life, because the events of your earlier life shape who you are now. You may be different, you may not, but you are who you are because of who you were and what you did.
The 4th Doctor Who is the best one IMO.
He is good, but come on have you ever seen ninth? He is perfect
hold on, we can't go without mentioning the 10th.
+illdiewithoutpi what if I do, what are you going to do? Moisturize me?
Who is that?
I prefer The Who.
Sorry I just spent the second-half of the video trying to remember what I had for lunch last Tuesday
memory has been fascinating to me since i listened to malcolm gladwell's podcast and the double episodes about memories. what he said that really sticks with me is "the lesson of that story is that only a fool accepts the evidence of his own memory for gospel. the lesson of this story is: we are all fools".
I think personal identity is composed of the continuity of existence itself in the form of our memories and brain patterns and that slow subtle changes don't disrupt that continuity. This does happen to imply a method of moving minds between substrates that sustain them, that being that if substrates were exchanged fluidly where one offloads one function at a time but all functions still work together. I like to think of this in terms of mind uploads. One function at a time, yet still a complete and continuous experience then your mind has been transferred.
Last time I was this early I had a brain
Your identity to you is your memories. Your identity to others is your body.
We all are different from when we were born because our personality and minds change when we encounter and experience new things. So we are changing rather consistently and sometimes in small ways in others more radical ways.
these videos are awesome!
Maybe we could regard DNA as the essential property of human beings
I am a chicken
yay i love you hank! more!
I believe our identity is our unique personality based off articles I've read even after amnesia individuals still maintains their personalities.