How does Baseplate Shimming Work?
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Learn how to use a shim to fine tune your wingfoil or surf foiling equipment for the conditions, and why referring to it as a "board shim" rather baseplate shim may help better understand its function.
▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Overview
1:14 - How Angle of Attack Changes with Speed
2:22 - Baseplate Shim or Board Shim?
3:01 - Low End Performance
5:17 - Pumping Performance
5:41 - High Speed Performance
6:30 - Conclusion
Check out our reversible baseplate shim for quick identification on the beach at omenfoils.com/collections/acc...
Best explanation I’ve found for this. Love the models. All foil videos should use this technique. Awesome. I’m off now to play work with shims. Cheers, Dude!
Thanks! Please let us know how your testing works out!
Excellent video - convinced me to try it, particularly to make light-wind starts easier.
Lovely clear explanation of an often confusing topic. Really helpful video, need to get myself a shim and try it next time the wind is light!
Appreciate the kind words, drop us an email and we'll send you a file to 3D print a reversible baseplate shim
Best explanation and now i can understand how to make use of baseplate shims. Thanks. I subbed. Looking forward to mkre excellent content
Excellent explanation! Thanks
I designed up and 3D printed a shim to point my front wing down 2 degrees. I make all my own hydrofoils and just recently made my first carbon fibre mast. I put that 2 degree angle into my fuselage connection part of the bottom of the mast and ditched the shim. Either way, the result is more relaxed stance and not needing to partially fold my back leg.
Nice, that is one way to do pretty much the same thing! You'll likely want to re-shim your tail as well and now your mast and more importantly fuselage are flying at a slightly different angle. Depending on what speed your are trying to optimize for this could be a good or bad thing. Awesome that you are building your own gear man!
@@omenfoils Thanks, for me the biggest change for shimming (the mast) is not how it rides at all but my posture riding the foil. I still maintain my COG over the foil but the Axis gear uses a built in climb angle on the front wing which I don't agree with but I copied that angle for potential stabiliser compatibility part way along my own journey of wing design. To my mind, the wing already has an element of lift from foil top convex surface so if I want to climb MORE (Like starting or pumping or almost stalling) then I'll do it with angling the board with my feet. At cruising speed, I want the board flat, I want the front foil flat. At takeoff, I don't want the extra drag from mis-alignment of the board under surface and the foil angle. Of course Axis may have done it themselves in the beginning to compensate for boards with a lot of tail rocker, I'm sure they felt it was positive for them. I think they have reduced the climb angle on their newer foils since they started with it but it takes time, change the front foil angle and then you need to compensate with the rear stabiliser angle. Mast plate shims and doodad shim-angles leave that setting alone though, they just change the ride angle of the board. But you guys seem fairly tuned in, I forgot to mention on my first comment that the original shim was for the mast.
Great video, thanks
Perfect explanation. Thank you
Thanks @IAMFOXON!
Awesome videos! Thanks!
Thanks Jonas!
Nice, I run 2 degrees at the front for speed but will try 1 degree at the back next light wind session. Great description.❤
Awesome, let us know how it works for you!
Based on the feedback and number of questions we received from this video we've made a reversible 1 degree baseplate shim that is labelled for quick identification on which side to place forward when you are setting up in a rush and want to make sure you're getting the most out of your gear:
omenfoils.com/collections/accessories
Great video explanation 👍🏻
Thanks!
Excellent explanation , I do notice and as do my buddies, that my board points downward in high speed . Will try shims! Thank you! Subscribed!
awesome, you're going to love it at high speed - more secure feeling in carves and better touch down performance!
That's happening to me too my board is angled down at medium and high speeds so my back leg is slightly bent will shim it to level out the board
makes good sense, I am trying to learn wind foiling, this shim does help . I made my own baseplate shim using plastic carpenter door shims , I think that they give 1 degree adjustment per shim and can be stacked. longer blots are needed for more Then one shim
Right on, nothing magic about the shim material. We made ours to be more convenient and easy by design but no performance advantage over just a plastic scraper cut to shape provided you get the thickness/angle more or less correct. Good luck on your winging journey, drop a line with your progress!
Very good stuff
appreciated, glad folks are getting value out of the content
If at high speed foil (and board) are really pointing downwards it means fuselage isn't aligned with the flow. This increases both frontal area and drag coefficient of the fuse. Also then mast wouldn't be vertical like it is supposed to be for minimal drag but this is not that serious flaw than unaligned fuse.
Correct method is to adjust foil for high speed so that fuse can ride level, because you want to ride at certain height and water surface is always level. Board don't have to be level and if it rides slightly nose up it helps against crashing when board hits water.
If foil produces too much lift at high speed AoA of the front wing should be adjusted lower, not tilting the whole system under the board. Or having a foil which has less lift (smaller area, thin/less cambered airfoil). Of course shimming baseplate is simple but it less than ideal
Great points Bekanav, no doubt you are correct that operating past the designed efficiency range of your front wing also increases the drag due to the angle of the fuselage. So of course the best thing to do is to rig a smaller wing, however, this is not always an option, and some riders may need the larger wing to get on foil, so a baseplate shim is the best option in this case.
On our Operator foils not only is the wing designed to have a broader efficiency range but also the fuselage is made smaller to reduce the drag when it is operating at lower or higher speeds than ideal. Together, this significantly increases the range of conditions that the foil can excel in.
@@omenfoils That makes sense. In some foils shimming front wing isn't even possible so then you have to try something else like shimming board/fuselage angle from the baseplate, if some changes are needed. I've always just thought foil should travel pretty much level when riding normal speed and it was a surprise to hear that some foils could have negative AoA at high speed. Of course amount of this can't be big, perhaps a degree or two and therefore can be tolerable even though it is a bit weird or less than ideal.
I've made few complete foils and many wings during the years and then I had to think through the physics and variables. I have long history in kite design so things that fly were familiar to me, and foils just fly in water. Less than 10 years ago foils used to be much smaller but also much faster than now usual big foils. Winging wasn't around at all, it was all kite foiling. It was much harder to learn then because you needed more speed to get up and then crashes were harder. I remember how beat up I felt in first summer learning foiling😅
My latest project is monowing, just to see if it is usable or more fun. Auto stable airfoils are widely used in foil kites but there is of course many parameters to think and hopefully eyeball correctly enough. Nice shaping task anyway
Last summer I tested a thick 1500cm2 foil and it was much too powerful for me, my speed was ridiculously slow and I had to keep my weight very much on front foot. I was kite foiling, for wing foiling it might have been a usable setup. What is best or most suitable for you is a personal matter and depends on your style of riding etc.
Foiling is great sport but it also has that technical side in it. Some misunderstandings of foils, how they work and for tuning are quite usual. Good to see a channel like yours which clearly explains these things 👍
@@bekanav Thanks for the support and great engagement, you're absolutely correct the negative angle at high speed is generally very small, however it does cause a big drag penalty since the speed of the water is high over the wing and fuselage. Ultimately this non-linearly increasing drag is what places a practical speed limit for a foil at a specific rider weight.
Similar principle applies to low speed which is why a larger foil will actaully be more efficient in small waves than a small foil since the angle of attack of a small foil operating just above it's stall speed is quite high it makes the whole system very inefficient.
I could see this being very helpful for foil drive users where the board and foil angles don’t work well for powering out.
great point Josh. Depending on the conditions I'm sure there is an ideal angle as a compromise between take off power and high speed riding comfort.
I think it is less hassle to adjust the angle of attack by applying the front or back foot pressure
A great point, and certainly works well in high wind. In very light wind though by applying more front foot pressure to reduce the angle of attack of the board you increase the required speed (and therefore energy) required to take off on foil. The baseplate shim allows us to take advantage of the physics of the foil to get better light wind performance out of our equipment.
Having read your description, I realize your target is for wing foil or surf foil people. I am a kite foiler. I water start and normally get up on foil without the board touching the water. Sorry about not having read your description.@@omenfoils
@@chungchichiu9779 No worries, that makes sense! Kites have so much more power that board efficiency is much less of a concern other than very light wind conditions. Board shim could still be useful for tuning board angle. I see lots of kitefoilers at our local lake in permanent "wheelie mode"!
Great video. I use it at the back of baseplate in order to compensate an angled recessed deck but I find it makes a little harder to pump the board and maintain height of the mast because when the wing is on neutral my board points slightly down. Does it make sense?
That all sounds logical @cefirmeza, what angle is your deck relative to the bottom of your board?
I use Tuttle boxes with a kit of Tuttle box shims. Almost always use -2 deg. Less drag from the foil while getting to planing speed then accelerating to foil takeoff speed. This is for small foils.
Nice! Do you notice your board starts pointing down slightly at high speed?
Hi! Thank you for sharing! The first time I really understood the matter. Which brand would you recommend? Or just DIY?
Hi @kountchev1, we are making our own reversible 1 degree baseplate shim at Omen that will be out in a couple weeks. Goal is to make it easy to rapidly identify which way to face it when setting up. That being said - really anything works provided its from stiff plastic, so if you have access to a 3D printer no reason not to DIY!
Hi
Very interesting topic. I’m struggling with my takeoff in surfoil and I’m planning to shim my mast. I use a gofoil foil with a north board.
I feel like the front wing has to much incidence :
- on small waves it is nearly impossible to gain speed (like if there was to much drag)
- on more powerful waves I get ejected unless I put a lot of pressure on the front of the board (I tend to advance the COG very forward but if not enough speed the nose of the board plants in the water even with the mast at its most rear position).
My idea is to shim the mast to decrease the angle of incidence of the front wing to help my takeoff and let me recenter the mast on the box.
Do you have any comments on this strategy ? Will I have some difficulties with the stab ?
You say that mast shim are more a board shim. It is true when flying because the pitch of the system is controlled by the foil. But when the board is on the water, the pitch of the system is controlled by the board lying on the water. Don’t you think that in this case it is more like a front wing incidence shim ?
Last question : do you think that the source of power has an influence on the reasoning? When winging, the wing helps to unload the foil with its traction whereas on surf foil all the energy comes from the wave.
Hi Thomas, you are correct that the baseplate/board shim controls the angle of the board when the foil is flying but could be thought of as to control the angle of the foil when paddling the board on the surface. In your case it sounds like your foil has either too large of a tail wing or too much angle of attack (too much nose down angle) on the tail. This would make it feel draggier at low speed and have an overwhelming amount of front foot pressure at high speed. It could also lead to feeling like the foil is trying to rise too aggressively when catching a more powerful wave, however, I think this is more due to your foil being a bit too far foward in the tracks.
Check out the video we made on tail tuning to get your tail dialed in. Similarly, watch our track position video and place your foil a bit further back than the balanced position to make it a bit easier on yourself when catching waves.
The source of power matters, but in general wouldn't affect the way I tune since I'm optimizing for wave/bump riding either way.
Many thanks for your answer that add a lot to my comprehension … which stays quite low has this topic is very complicated !
About the position of the mast … it is already at its most back position. nothing to do here.
I’ve watch carefully your video on the tail wing and will try to play this side … hopefully it will work !
Your videos are very nice and very well explained ! Very good job.
@@ThomasGic happy to help Thomas! Please let me know how it works, and if it's not possible to tune properly due to gear limitation get in touch with me for an upgrade :)
greg@omenfoils.com
Way over complicated explanation. The base plate adjusts the angle of your board. It only affects lift when the board is flat, once board is airborne, it has nothing to do with lift, just board angle and the feeling under your feet.
Thanks for your comment Gary, completely agree the baseplate shim adjusts the angle of the board relative to the foil, and assuming you mean it only affects lift when the board is on the water - I also agree! I'm sure there is a simpler way to explain it all, but we worked hard to make it very clear how and why it affects feel and performance of the whole system. In my experience this is key to riders being able to incorporate a tool into their everyday routine. Sorry to hear the content wasn't helpful for you, we're working on more videos and will strive to continually improve.
@@omenfoils I'm not sure how it was for others, but for me it really helped me understand the reasons of why you would shim for different conditions and the benefits associated. Lots of ppl talk about tail shimming but I have not found too many ppl discussing baseplate shimming. It's good to understand as it's another tool in ones arsenal and is alot cheaper than another front wing to get more range out of your equipment too.
Thanks@@danno9846 !
I’m not sure that I can agree with you Gary. One or two degrees of rake are noticeably changing your riding especially in higher speeds and cornering.