Judgment of Followers of Christ Church | Court TV Original
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- čas přidán 27. 12. 2022
- Judgment of Followers of Christ Church | CO v. Carl & Raylene Worthington: When 15-month-old Ava Worthington became ill with a cold, her parents Carl and Raylene did what they always did - relied on the tenets of the Followers of Christ church, a Pentecostal sect that insisted the power of prayer was the only cure she needed. When Ava died, prosecutors didn’t find it to be a matter of faith. They considered it a crime.
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WHO was their faith in??? Not once did I hear the names "GOD, or "JESUS" or the name of a "god " if their choice. Their faith was in a "method" and That all!!! Just a method! 🤬🤬🤬
When my daughter was 15 months old she didn't appear to be very well when I bathed her and got her ready for bed. I kept looking in on her as she slept. She woke crying, so I got her up. She felt warm, so I checked her temperature. It was raised & she felt warm. I wrapped her in a blanket, grabbed a bottle and diapers, and drove to our local children's hospital. Her temp was higher, and blood checks showed she had an infection. She was medicated immediately. We spent the night there, and she gradually improved. The doctor told me I did right by bringing her in because there was an infectious illness "going around." She was released the following evening with meds to be taken for 4 more days. Thankfully, she made a quick recovery. Our littles can't tell us what's wrong or what hurts its our responsibility to be their voicesm
Exactly.
Amen to that
Agreed you are a great mother ❣️
Facts
I had the same experience. My ex-husband said our 18 month old was "fine", but after several days of him not being an active toddler I took him to the ER while my ex was at work. He had a very rare pneumonia that killed off much of his lung, was in the hospital for 2 weeks on adult doses of multiple antibiotics... and a specialist in Alaska told me he would've died had I waited another day. Even when other adults say "it's fine", we HAVE to err on the side of the child. No matter what.
It's so bizarre to me that neither parent is crying or breaking down at the reality of losing their child
They think her death earned them heaven points. They literally ARE happy about it
Maybe it was passed the 7 days of mourning? 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
How can they know that they are healthy if they’ve never been medically checked? It’s absurd.
It's worth a debate, whether it's part of a norm to visit a doctor, when you feel healthy. But in case of health care for a child, I think it's important to do health checks, because babies can't articulate what's wrong with them. If an adult decides against any medical treatment, it's the own personal choice.
Correct. I didn't know my child had a heart condition till he was 3 months old. He was in PICU after he was born, even then the doctors didn't see it.
Great point.
I hope they got the death penalty for the death of the baby
As an Oregon girl this is shameful and sad. Happy the state stood up (much much too late) to save these poor kids with ridiculous and negligent parents
Ava would've been my age. And knowing her area we would've gone to school together...RIP 😔
It's so sad that this beautiful young life was needlessly lost. All because of her parents DELUSIONAL BEHAVIOUR !!!
Faith in God is not delusional. The parents were wrong...but you are wrong to criticize those who believe in God.
@@jerrycooper7300I agree with you, but I'm not sure op was calling people of faith delusional. To go this far knowing your child is in mortal danger, however, is delusional. To think God has complete and utter control over everything that happens is delusional. He gave us free will and this is what this poor baby's parents chose to use their free will for.
@@jerrycooper7300yes! It’s totally delusional to believe in any god!
@@juliedaniels5594I guess we will all find out soon enough…including you.
These poor children died for a god who has never been proven to exist. It's nightmarish
I remember this case so sad at the time my son had terminal cancer and we were fighting for my son's life. When this came out in the news I totally lost it
I had a newborn when Susan Smith drowned her little boys. Just that was devastating to me, my daughter was okay. I understand and yet can’t imagine how that felt.
@BeeJae Jones
These things definitely hit harder once you have kids don't they..!
@@HopelessSinner especially when your child is having a hard time. My nephew passed away at St. Jude’s at only 6 months old.
How these people could do this is insane.
@@FLo-jc7ig My daughter is okay. She had failure to thrive for two months. Does that fix it for you? I didn’t deny her medical care.
@@FLo-jc7ig Really. Do you understand yet?
I can’t imagine my daughter being diagnosed with cancer when another intentionally denied health care or drowned babies or toddlers when I know how so incredibly worried a normal ish mom would be.
I also can’t imagine what it was like to see someone deny health care to a baby.
Sorry if it was confusing.
How do you know that you’re healthy, if never been to a doctor. Shame on that jury who didn’t go by the law.
There was No justice for Ava, may she rest in peace🕊️.
FYI a year later the grandparents here, Jeffrey and Marci Beagley, were sentenced to 16 months in prison for criminally negligent homicide in the death of their son Neil. He was 16 years old, & he died of an undiagnosed and untreated urinary tract obstruction. His condition was easily treatable, but instead he died a senseless & extremely painful death.
Infuriating. Both parents & grandparents should have received long prison sentences. Through their own neglect, they caused the deaths of their children, Ava & Neil. Their horrific religion condones that kind of nightmarish behaviour, but most human beings do not.
The leaders of the church who preach this kind of craven ignorance should also be charged for endangering others, & should be sued in civil court as well.
Ignorantly negligent and religiously indoctrinated to death.🙄
@@AccentYouLovingheartYes. There's nothing Godly about this cult!
If faith heals & they won't get medical treatment, why aren't they shunning food? That also should be faith-based, right? Stupidity can go to the extent of watching & letting your child die when medical treatment could have saved these children. It's incredible. My heart burns to think of the suffering these children must have gone through before resting eternally.
This is no different than honor killings within Muslim countries. They believe that they are obligated to kill someone within their own family who goes against the religious rules and brings shame to the family. Just imagine if this situation was a different religion than Christianity
Thanks for sharing. So sad that history is repeating itself, multiple generations in the same family so close together are going through the justice/legal system after letting their crazy religious beliefs allow them to think it's okay to make their children suffer through horrible and unnecessary deaths. These poor defenceless children deserve so much better than this. People who behave in this way should not be allowed to have children, they do not deserve them.
What the hell? Shame on that jury. How in the hell can that jury live with themselves finding those two cruel people not guilty. What is it? Do they think that a guilty verdict will only rub salt in their wounds that they inflicted upon themselves? I am absolutely sickens disgusted with each juror.
Then after this Raylene watched her own 17 year old brother die of an easily treated case of urinary tract infection and didn't do a thing. It's some kind of deadly religious roulette these people play all their lives. And the most disturbing thing is, they're proud of their commitment to the delusion and all the people in their insular community see them as the most christ-like. Reminds me of that bumper sticker: "Dear Jesus, save my from your followers."
Mrs H 🇬🇧 ... It's mind boggling... Insane..
Follow the money.
Since the whole church agreed with and encouraged these decisions, how could they all not be investigated/charged as some version of complicit?
Lack of funds and time
Read first amendment to the constitution...can't prosecute them for practicing their religion because you don't agree with them,, proof beyond doubt crime was committed by the individual is required for arrest
Yep. Racketeering negligent homicide. Lots of deaths to investigate but the only way Republicans get voted into office in Oregon is because of these rural areas, and we've seen what politicians do to get votes from these lunatics.
Growing up Pentecostal almost ruined mine and my sisters lives. Lucky my parents realized the truth by the time I was 13. Don’t do this crap to your children, don’t force your kids to have a horrible childhood because you this some idiots think they talk to god. 🤦♀️
Their are not only pentecostals, their are extremely Pentecostals. I grow up Pentecostal and all of us including my parents went to doctors. I am from Brazil and even in the USA, Pentecostals do go to doctors. There is a faction of these people that isolated themselves from others and created a cult. Cults do make you a slave of faith, and faith if men, not God, so, when you, if you go to a church, make sure it is sound mind it. Excuse my English.
@@laurenmay2098 All religions are cults!!!! Group think!!!
@@laurenmay2098 I grew up Pentecostal also and we went and still go to doctors. Some people are looking for an excuse to deny God! These people have no idea who God is!
@@SweetT601society hates God. God doesn’t exist to them. But I wonder what a lot of these people would say about Muslims mutilating little girls via female circumcising, or allowing children to have so called gender affirming care, or if we were talking about another culture (non white) rejecting medicine over their cultural beliefs and customs say in Africa. I think a lot of them would defend all of these while attacking and hating on Bible believing people. Not really because they care about children, because they resent their religion, God and the Bible.
This isn’t Pentecostalism. This is a cult. Absolutely a cult. Hands down a cult. I grew up Pentecostal and we went to doctors, went to the hospital, sought medical treatment and was led by common sense. Pentecostals don’t touch wine. Not even for communion. This isn’t Pentecostalism, at all. I hate that this is associated with it. Ugh.
This case is nauseating, they fed her alcohol while she was slowly dying and watched her die 😳 this poor baby 💔
The dad is disgusting. He actually smiled when the so called defense expert was saying loads of kids die...not normal.
And what the hell was up with the jury?!
they are enabling more faith healing people to neglect their child's health...
Cracka-my-ass County.
How sad! God was providing the parents the means to cure their daughter they just ignored that. They should be in jail.
When I had my second child in a different country, I was advised either to call or come to a hospital if and when she had temperature or ill. Best advice ever.
At 4 months old, a 3 year old in our town passed away from spinal meningitis.. the day of her funeral we rushed our 4 month old to the ER, 55 miles away… she had been treated for an ear infection.. but her temperature had spiked to 105 degrees since an hour earlier.. we were terrified.. our minds racing in fear and heartache… I never could remember if I was to add 1 or 2 degrees or subtract under the arm.. I was a mess! My sister was staying with us and she had gone to the 3 years old’s funeral service.. she worked for her parents.. she filled us in.. we weren’t able to attend.. we had a sick baby.. the service really touched her and she rarely spoke of it. The one comment she made was all that was spinning around in my frantic mind, as we sped to the hospital.. oh, and the fact that if we wrecked…??! She commented as her hand gesture spread… palms facing at about 3 feet apart.. “I’ve never seen a coffin so small..”
Kelly was tested and we were quarantined immediately.. she was positive for spinal meningitis! We were in ICU/hospital for 18 days. The first few a living nightmare..
Luckily.. she had no side affects… which.. it has some are pretty terrifying.. (well.. one side affect.. she was absolutely spoiled completely rotten… For those 18 days I never left her side and usually 1 or 2 other family members we at her beck and call..
She would have died.. that evening the Doctor told us.. if she wasn’t receiving treatment that day.. I know the 3 year old’s parents had her in great medical hands at time she passed…
Never! Never just assume when it comes to your baby’s health!❤️❤️❤️
Interesting how many people know what God's will is - whatever law one may follow, if you are afraid of losing your child, you would try anything possible to get treatment or at least a diagnosis of someone with medical background asap.
I believe in the power of Prayer and that God heals. But he also gives you sense enough to seek out medical help when needed!
I was born into something similar and it’s extremely wrong to just let a child die. How scary to have a bunch of hands on you praying while you’re dying…
These “churches” need to be stopped. They are now just going to hide child deaths now.
And they forgot that Luke was a doctor! That medicine is one of the ways God heals people because the knowledge and gift of medicine comes from God !
They need to be punished so that they don't keep doing this...
I remember this case😪the suffering Ava went through was a crime. I grew up in a pentecostal church and we believed in doctors. This group was a radical cult who twisted the scriptures. Many kids suffered and died.
That’s right, everyone is saying their are a religious group, not their are not, their are a cult. I grew up Pentecostal as well, can’t get in school without vaccines cards, medical reports, and after age 14 chest x-ray for lung diseases. These case was sad, but it is like this in many places, very sad how humans do not look up for each other’s, but put their heads in the sand and let it go. Poor angel.
Do they not ever go to a dentist or eye doctor? Everyone has perfect teeth and vision?
I grew up in a religion like this. In my experience, the adults in the church, including her parents, think they are qualified to medically assess a child's health and render an opinion in a life or death situation. They do not know what they don't know, and they refuse to open their minds to any possibility other than their own ignorance.
This is not a religion, but a cult. Makes a lots of difference, because in a religious set up, you are free to do whatever you wanted, in a cult not. And also, straight minded people always get themselves into cults, knowledge is being their capacity of challenging or questioning, what up with this?
This whole case is just crazy. The parents are crazy and that judge is just something else entirely. What a disgrace. And how is the mother saying she's healthy when she has never seen a doctor? 😵💫
That judge 🤬👨⚖️. At times I have to try to erase these images and the actions/words of people in power like this judge 👨⚖️ who legit was so egregious with his words and body language. I was so impressed by the lawyer...he wasn't rude or disrespectful...my first thought was to run and punch him in his throat 😮, of course I am not crazy so my second thought was "he looks and sounds like an incompetent, egotistical ass so I will settle down and hope the jury speaks for this baby girl"!!!
My sister was a part of The Rock Church in 2007, they did similar things. I remember once having to beg her to bring her son to a doctor because his legs suddenly stopped working and she went to the minister and they prayed on him and spoke in tongues. It was weird af
Scientology is the same.
The defence attorney should be ashamed of himself also the parents . The grandparents and the church should hold their heads in shame
Both should have gone to prison it's disgraceful
God does for us what we can't do for ourselves. HE is the One that has imparted medical knowledge and technologies to us. Use it!! I have someone close to me who believed God could heal them from high blood pressure. They ceased taking their medication and subsequently had a stroke! Remember Jrsus spoke those words over 2000 years ago! They needed gifts of healing. We still need gifts of healing. And God still heals. But my own personal experience is once you have done all that you can do for yourself, He will then do what you cannot do. .all for His Glory!
It is a shame how the parents got away. This child was helpless and suffered a horrible death. People like that don’t deserve children. And since they believe in heaven and hell, I hope the fires of hell will be waiting for them.
I grew up in the Fallowers church. First in Oregon and later Idaho. I left/was pushed out around 18. I believe it is a cult. In idaho some people will take their kids to the hospital but those people usually exist higher up on social scale or have better agency. It's still archaic and people die from preventable issues or malpractice. I think about the fallowers alot and I've pased the floor of my mind about them for years. Like most Christians we believed that sin was the origin of death so when a child dies who was responsible? I've seen parents frame it as their sins. So this ends up being a feed back loop of salvation threw the church from our sins who's graveyard of children is a reminder for them why they need the church yet the church is the cause. It's a death cult. I have family involved. I'm about to loose someone to the church. I pray for some type of intervention.
Off topic, but that phrase " pacing the floor of my mind about them" is very evocative. It's exactly what we do, isn't it, when we worry & worry, & go over an issue again & again to try to find a solution.
I'm glad you were able to free yourself from that cult, & I hope the ones you love are able to do the same.💖
The authorities should sit down with these church leaders to get them to agree to the law.
They are cult-like unreasonable zealots. That won’t work…
🤣
Hahaha yeah right the law v religion 😂
I Remer this trial. It was interesting how many of them wore glasses.
As a medical provider myself, I can attest to the multitude of times that a child presented with the most horrific and preventable conditions that the parents simply did not recognize as being urgent. As much as I hate to side with the parents in this case, I must be fair in noting that their malignant ignorance and religious fervor overrode any common sense by leaving the child's fate into 'God's' hands. RIP little one.🌹
there is no god. which parent will watch a baby die without doing any thing when he has all the power ! (punish after the death , first there is no proof that there is life after death)
I appreciate your honesty
The point is, even if they recognized the need, they wouldn’t have taken her in. They said it themselves.
This group has let a lot of babies, children and teenagers die. Kids who didn't have a way to get help themselves. A few years after this Raylene's teenager brother died from a urinary tract infection. It's disgusting.
I agree that it is hard to recognize serious illness in children, and children are notorious for appearing stable and then deteriorating rapidly. But the fact that the parents had more and more people coming in to lay hands on her indicates, in my opinion, that they were aware that she was seriously ill or even dying.
And even if they knew for sure that she was ill/dying, they would not have sought help.
I - I just don’t understand their thought process. I hope more are prosecuted when something tragic like this happens.
I'm all for people believing how they want, but when you let your child die because you don't want any "modern medicine" to heal your child. Same with Jehovah's witnesses. If a simple blood transfusion would save their child, they refuse it and let the kid die. That's why they ask you at the hospital if you have any religious views that would cause you to prevent treatment.
Brainwashed, religion does that, I feel sorry for them because they were brought up like that. Sad culture.
@@honeybunch5765 yuuuup
Their thought process is just pride in being supposedly righteous. What would Jesus have done? He would ask God to smite these prideful ignoramuses because their wish to appear righteous overrode their responsibility yo protect the child that God gave them to take care of.
I grew up in the church and left/was pushed out when I was 18. I'm 31 now. I've spent many years thinking about them. I still have family involved. The practice of faith healing wasn't uncommon when the church first formed. In fact many people were sceptical of Doctors than just like now. Sanitation in the medical field wasn't really practiced or understood widely until about ww2. Their beliefs weren't that extreme in comparison to other beliefs at the time they came together. They were a rural community and by the time this case happened people began moving to Oregon more frequently. It didn't take long for people to notice them and see that they still had some out of date practices. I believe the other churches in the area coupled with newer populations tried to shed light on their activities and once the news and media got involved they shut down even harder. The leader died in 69 and then my great grandfather Glendford took over. He died right before this. They all believed God would deliver a new leader but those beliefs were superstitious at best. Leaderless, when the news began showing up they began doubling down on not talking to the outside world. In some ways the greater community surrounding the Fallowers handled the situation wrong and helped make it worse.
This will always be a sensitive topic. I grew up Pentecostal. Now I don’t believe in religious denominations. I’ve never understood the rejection of medical advice. There were doctors in biblical times. Even the disciple Luke was a doctor. I don’t judge people based on their religious beliefs. I understand that biblical interpretations are for each individual. But God gives everyone common sense.
My hell, I take better care of my dog. I don’t have any children. I guess he’s the closest thing that I have but if I ever think or suspect something is wrong, I’m running to the vet. SMH 🤦♀️
The family believes that their "FAITH" will heal them and that God will make everything better....I do believe in the lord however I also believe they will get exactly what's coming to them one way or another!!!!!
No where in the Bible does it say to not get medical treatment.
My daughter had a fever so I took to the hospital and that's how I found out she had slight pneumonia..
They wouldn't call it a cult? I would.
The Bible doesn't deny medical help, absolutely not, the apostle Luke was a physician and he went everywhere with the apostle Paul so he can treat any medical issues might come up, because, Apostle Paul was getting older and having medical problems. God is the Lord of mercy and compassion. The word of the Lord is life. You can't make up things, blaming the word of the Lord, and practicing, hurting God's most precious.
Prayers, faith, and most certainly medical intervention is what you do when you trust God and pray that He guides the medical minds to heal.
I work in the medical field, and I put my life and my kids in God's hands, He gave me wisdom to rush to get medical help anytime I felt medical intervention was needed. My daughter, who follows and loves the Lord Jesus, is about to graduate as a medical examiner. My son is a neuro science professor. God is blessing us, our minds, so we can help His beloved human beings. This is very sad, this little angel, poor little angel.
They are putting God on the spot, testing God, and demanding the healing in their own time and way. That in itself is against faith and the word of God.
They got off incredibly easy. Of course, now, we have states trying to haul women to court for miscarriages. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it?
Please believe that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. We are spiritual AND physical beings, too. By all means pray and anoint and ask God to heal but also seek medical attention. I guarantee that the parents wear manufactured clothes, buy food at a store, use electric, and drive cars because they are physical beings and need these things to live in our times. Jesus didn't shop at Walmart or drive. Do they pray for miraculously appearing clothes, food, or transportation? Why is medical care excluded in this community? Sad.
The 100 people praying should of all been held accountable. They all played a part. Defense guy. Wow he got properly chewed out.
Facts. I would have showed up and took that baby to the hospital myself if I saw that smh. Walk right in and take the child
Omg these kids didn’t give consent to being in a crazy faith
Wonder what they'd do if a lion was approaching their child and about to pounce. They'd probably lay hands and call their prayer circle 👐😅 🤦
If they had called a theologian who knew how to interpret the Bible accurately and showed clearly from the Bible that medical treatment is a God given gift to society, they perhaps would have swayed the jury to see clearly what happened here. In our country it would have been a clear case of culpable homicide, punishable for up to 15 years in prison.
The only way this sort of can be believed is if they never left their circle. Which obviously they must work and see the outside world. So I agree! It’s absurd!
Ava would have been 16 this year. 😪
I believe in the power of prayer, even anointing w oil, but I ALSO believe that God granted doctors the knowledge to care & cure an abundance of illnesses. When it is clear that there is a problem beyond prayer, then medical attention should be immediate
Beautiful angel
At 41:48 I remember bringing my twins home from the hospital we were like now what the hell do we do?? You learn pretty quick what to do especially with twins :-) Peace
My church does the oil and laying on of hands, but we are very pro medicine. The oil and hands are an aide to medicine.
If there is a God all souls of children go to heaven
This past winter a little bird flew into our window, we took it in, and gave it care. The next day it was ready to fly again, and it even looked like it said "thank you". Two weeks ago, I found a little kitten in very bad shape. We took it in, gave it food, and shelter, and it recovered. 4 Days ago my neighbour found another kitten, resembling the one we found previously. We took it in, but this one was very weak, and I immediately took it to the vet, who thanked me for saving the little kittens' life, by reacting so fast. Now, if we as humans care so much for animals, how much more for a little child?
I'm so disgusted by religious people. Religion killed most people throughout history, and still do to this day. When are people going to wake up, and start using their own brains, instead of letting others dictate to them what is right, and what is wrong? Where are their own conscience, or gut feelings? Are they so brainwashed, or in fear of others, that they no longer listen to their own inner warning signals?
This is such a heartbreaking case because Ava’s life could have been easily saved with modern medicine.
I would draw a distinction: If an adult voluntarily refuses medical treatment, no court should override that decision. But when it comes children, society has an obligation to protect the from harmful decisions by third parties, including parents. Court orders to compel medically necessary treatment or prosecution of parents for refusal to obtain such treatment, are warranted. In cases involving Christian Scientists, courts have refused to order adults to receive blood transfusions over patient objections, but have frequently ordered transfusions for children over parental objections. 👎⚖️
This makes me angry these people should be put in jail for neglecting poor Eva. Also if the jury thinks it's okay for their community to have these type of people, if they're ok for children to keep on suffering without medical help then good luck to that American State! 😡
Whats concerning is the expectation for parents to seek medical help that will literally bankrupt them.
Guilty guilty guilty
How can they say “God’s Will” and God has a plan but not trust God’s will when he placed it in one’s path to become a medical professional or invent medicine. You can’t pick and choose what’s in His will! If God gave someone the ability and knowledge to become a doctor why not trust medicine!!?
Hello can someone tell me who called the cops to check on the child?
The cops were notified when the child died. The parents weren’t going to just bury the baby in the backyard.
@@trickortrump3292 ty ..so did someone in the cult snitch or did the parents call themselves thinking they did nothing wrong?
@@beermakeup4555 Well the medical examiner testified in the video that someone from the church called him and told him about the baby and that they didn’t know what caused her death. This is purely speculation on my part, but I imagine after Ava died there was discussion about reporting it and someone there who personally knew the medical examiner offered to call in hopes that that personal relationship would help shape how the authorities were going to view the situation. The medical examiner would’ve called the police and the investigation was launched. There’s no way around calling in the death unless you’re going to dispose of the child’s remains and hope nobody ever tells. The funeral home can’t just come pick up the body without the death being reported and they most certainly cannot bury or cremate the deceased without a death certificate. A doctor can only issue a death certificate without notifying police for someone who was under their care at the time and the death was perfectly expected. If you have a cancer patient under palliative care at home, nobody needs to report that to police and a death certificate will be easily issued but for a child with an unexplained death outside of a hospital an investigation will be launched no matter what. I say all of that because nobody necessarily “snitched” by calling it in. The person who called the medical examiner was probably trying to assist the parents in reporting it.
This quote from John Adams, the second President of the United States, is particularly apt to today's debates over the Affordable Care Act, climate change, vaccines, and many other issues:
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
Ppl that think like this shouldn’t be allowed to have children in their care. The child didn’t decide to be born in those conditions, to follow the faith, the child has no consent. The child was forced to live in pain and die. Just sick
Generational inbreeding doesn't fare well when it comes to logic rationality and critical thought process!!!
The judge was too unprofessional. How do you allow your anger to overtake your professional demeanour? I don't think I could have been that calm.
God create human brain 🧠, we need to praise God for that. Doctors advance on studies to cure illnesses thanks to have a body and brain that God created, now wait on God to come and cure the illness? God is not that small, we have resources, and obviously faith and prayer too.
Amen 🙏🏽
If only they will realise that not anyone receives the gift of healing. It's fine to have people praying for healing whilst the patient is under medical care..under doctors and medical staff who received the gift and abilities to study medicine🙏🏽🤞🏼. Biblical Lucas was a doctor😇
just go to hospital. praying has much effect as placebo !
My brother was healed from cancer, even the doctor cried about. But he was doing everything the doctors told him, it was brutal, chemotherapy is not easy, but I know people, even children that died of cancer. So, it is not my business to tell a parents to be or not in a religious set up, to me a cult, that not let you go to a doctor, or shame you if you go. It is not the government job either, even more a government that does not provide it a free care to everyone.
Knock it off. You're talking just as much nonsense.
Strange they believe in wearing makeup etc. chemical base, but not medical
So many of us know that feeling of immediate fear and panic and the feeling we'd do ANYTHING to get our children help when they are hurt or unwell. I just can't understand how that wouldn't overpower everything else including going against faith. But I suppose that's the claws of the cult latched on securely.
Oh please🤦♀️
The attorney bringing up "couldn't sepsis, or certain pneumonia strains kill someone quickly?" , yeah it could, so what?
The fact is,help wasn't called and way likely, she'd be alive it it had been.
Shame on those parents let their baby die in the name of religion smh
Years ago I remembered a young girl in the hospital that I worked for. There was news van out in the parking lot because of the statement madeabout the girl. She was a johova witness. There religion San no blood would enter her body because it was animal blood. Stupid statement. She died because she needed a blood transfusion and could not get it. I was so angry and I started to cry. I wanted to talk to the news crew but was told I would be terminated. I'm still angry. How fing stupid. Sorry for misspelled words because 40 year later I still cry about this.💔
Beliefs can be dangerous.
I am Christian and believe in Him. But to save my child, I'd sign a contract with the devil. Screw these parents, screw the other's who've done this, and screw this jury.
For them to say this tragedy hasn't changed their minds and they don't believe the outcome would've been different if they had taken her to the doctor is ASTONISHING.
Well...what was the outcome of the grandparents case?
They were convicted of criminally negligent homicide. I do not know what their sentence was.
@@sharonreeves4591 16 months
This is why we have vaccines and that includes getting the vaccine for covid.. I dont know why people want to fight against that vaccine when they have been getting vaccines all their lives from childhood..
Lolol because we are not fools willing to take a non fda approved experimental innoculation.pushed by a lunatic that killed hundreds of AIDS patients with experimental drugs,as well as implanting flesh eating flies in beagles just to see what would happen... Not who I would take medical advice from.
When people seek medical care at the hospital and they die, who goes to prison then?
It's really useless and frustrating arguing with this kind of people because their minds are closed they would insist on their beliefs which is almost always is stupidity
Talk to parents whose children died in hospital. My friends baby died in hospital. The hospital isn’t held responsible for not saving the child’s life.
Argument why did god make plant have the ability heal people if he didn’t want us to use them and refine them and make better to help people
Normal Christians agree with you and take their children to the hospital. These people are in a cult. You will know it's a cult if they tell you they have a prophet. Christians don't have prophets that are living. They all died over a thousand years ago. John the Baptist was the last prophet. If anyone says they have a prophet know they are most definitely a cult.
I agree. However, an argument can also be had for God for blessing health care providers and scientists who discover and create things like penicillin, which comes from a natural mold, with the intellect and training to help those that cannot be helped by just herbs. This little girl might have been saved by penicillin or another antibiotic.
@@6248cjl I think that was their initial point. Most, if not all, drugs are derivatives of herbs. This is what I believe they meant by "refine".
Exactly. Their argument doesn't hold up when applied to anything else. Why even eat...just let God sustain you. Groups like this take isolated Bible verses and twist them to mean whatever they want.
@@mothersgauri4137 most religious people cherry pick from which ever book they get their information from
What do they do if they break a leg? Does terminal cancer mean no treatment and a horrible death? Do they use band aids?
Thou shalt not put the lord thy God to the test.
I clipped my daughters fingernails when she was a month old. I thought i clipped one to short and i took her to the emergency room!!! 😂
I see both sides however if it were my child I wouldn’t hesitate to take her to the doctor but I can see how these ppl thought prayer would heal her. They honestly think they’d go to hell had they of taken her to the doctor for medical care
Agreed. I don't feel I should judge them. I believe in the Lord and I believe He gave us brains for this reason. I would definitely bring my kid to the Doctor and pray to God...however this is their core belief.
Yeah.... Blame the bacteria... Smdh. RIP little Ava
In my humble opinion there is no cure for stupidity.
Walter White...😐
I was thinking the same thing 😂
Neglect? No. The parents did not neglect their child. The parents performed what they believed would help the child. Although not what you or I might do, it’s not neglect.
Neglect is failure to do something.
The parents prayed to god for healing.
Here we are in a quart room where we raise our right hand and swear to God. Why is obeying God good enough for the courtroom but not good enough in this case?
We can’t pick and choose when it comes to the Bible.
Exactly! I most definitely believe in seeking medical help when necessary and I also believe in divine healing! The Judge in this case was so biased. If this portrayal of him is accurate he seemed almost demonic!
Lock em up. A good 10 to 15 yrs is fair penitence for their ignorance.
33:38 weird smiles from her and the dad. Talking about a dead BABY
I would love to know how strictly they follow their religion in other areas.
I believe God heals also I believe dr nurse's our hear for a reason to if my kids our sick I pray for them also I take them to the Dr this is out right 🤪.
Also, why was the judge so angry? 🤣😂😭 Did I miss something?
Neither parent shed a tear over their beautiful child dying. They saw her as a martyr for the faith..
Now let me find the uncle's case
That judge is embarrassing!
Meanwhile, a few weeks ago authorities said they won't be prosecuting or even investigating the Scientoloy "church" because the US protects freedom of religion. Yeah right. Double standards.