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Ships going obsolete quickly was common in that time period. Even HMS Dreadnaught was outclassed by 1911 with the Iron Dukes and obsolete by 1913 with the Queen Elisabeth class
The Royal Navy had some obsolete warships at the outbreak of WW1 . The 3 Cressy class ships were sent to the bottom of the Channel with most of their young crews,,,
@@HiddenHistoryYT Good work,yes I agree,it was a waste,as its small size allows waves to flood the deck,even if they aim guns at the same side there could eazely fire and flood half of the port deck
The mast of the USS Oregon is prominently displayed in Portland's Waterfront Park. Considering it's one of the few military monuments in the city, I think most Portlanders assume the USS Oregon was a highly distinguished naval ship -- not a poorly designed, boondoggle.
The USS Oregon had to run full speed around South America in order to get to the first naval battle of the Spanish-American War in Cuba with no time to spare. It took almost a month but demonstrated the need to build the Panama Canal if America expected to have a two ocean navy.
She *was* quite distinguished in terms of her service history. She might not have been well-designed but her crew performed admirably during the Spanish-American War and she played an important role in the defeat of the Spanish navy.
Just so. It might almost be better, as Drachinifel among others has suggested, that it's better to look at dreadnought and pre-dreadnought battleships as entirely separate categories in making assessments like "best," and "worst." (I suppose you could even break out ironclad battleships and fast battleships as further categories...but I think Dreadnought marks the most important dividing line.)
Nah, by 1903 the pre dreadnought era was in full swing with many nations having successful pre dreadnought designs and even ships considered semi dreadnoughts. These things look like they came from 1880s. Just terrible design.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Well, you could throw the Indianas into the "Ironclad battleships" category if you want. But honestly, given when they hit the water, I think they deserve to compared to what was dominant by that point, and that was pre-dreads. And these were surely pretty inadequate by any pre-dread standard you like.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 where did 1903 come from? Massachusetts was designed in 1890. Maybe it looks like it’s from the 1880s because it nearly was.
Fascinating history! I also saw “monitor” in the design. One thing for certain was that while the Monitor classes were essential for the US Navy during the Civil War, their limitations were well known to the sailors of the day. On the other hand, to this day there is a place for fast shallow draft and coastal craft that pack big fire power. Trying to get the formula right amidst bureaucratic bickering is an art. Nothing’s perfect. Got to leave some room for American kids having to go into harms way in them to exercise some ingenuity.
Very insightful and delightful comment! Appreciate this information and perspective! Completely agree with you on everything you’ve said here, especially the bureaucracy aspect. Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
the issue isn’t so much the draft, it’s the balance and height above the waterline…this design was fine for its intended role. it was only when foreign policy and firepower abroad was brought into the equation did the design have issues and even then it was better balanced than ships in the past thanks yo splitting the firepower fore and aft and on both sides
BB-3 Oregon was a museum ship in Portland from the early 1920s to 1941, when the Navy took her back for scrap. When the superstructure was mostly cut up, they decided to use the hull as an ammunition barge for the invasion of Guam, and she wasn’t scrapped until the mid-1950s. The mast is currently on display in Portland, and the funnels are in storage.
Others made some good points about the pace of technological change and obsolescence of ships in this era, and they're right- the whole era from the 1870s to the 1900s was one of unprecedented and probably since unequalled pace of change in naval design and gunnery and armour technology, despite several contending later periods. But these ships certainly are among those that were frankly failures even as built but, all the same, interesting failures that still managed to give some service. Good video!
Bilge Keels are basically a metal fin running down the port and. Starboard side usually at the corner of the sides. They are angled and help with stability. It's one of the few things you see still riveted on the hulls of modern ships. FYI Mare Island could have handled the conversion.
If I may add: Bilge keels are there to provide resistance to the ship rolling from side to side, extending the rolling period. Ships with a low GM ( centre of gravity not very high above the keel, as a very basic explanation) tend to have very short rolling periods which can be very unpleasant to the crew.
7:21 There is a sizable part of me that misses the design choices of this particular time period. The white hull, beige upper decks and opulent bow, stern and turret ornaments just look so damn classy to my eye.
I do wish we would bring back the white paint schemes, is quite stunning in my opinion. Appreciate you watching and engaging Will! Have a great week :)
The Oregon did several things that changed the United States into a world power. The ship was the most famous vessel in the world during its trip around sailing from the west coast around Tierra Del Fuego and sailing to Cuba to arrive at San Juan Bay. The Oregon's Captain kept his ship's boilers hot and steam up with his Cardiff Coal waiting for the bottled up Spanish Navy to make a run for it. Most the rest of the U.S. Navy ship's had let their steam run down,and when the Spaniards made the breakout the Oregon was able to run them down. That trip around South America gave Teddey Roosevelt the ammunition to complete the Panama Canal, and inherit The Phillipines, and a host of Pacific Islands that the Japanese tried to occupy and keep in 1941. So was the Oregon and her sisters were supposedly the worst Battleship's in the world? The only way Congress in the 1890's would approve more Naval vessels would be to classify them as "coastal defense ships". The U.S. was very protectionist minded in those years. They were as stated, just upgraded river monitors.
You think yourself a student of history and along comes a story like this and reinvigorates my thirst for historical knowledge. The fact that port and starboard secondary guns dipped into the water when the big guns swiveled to the side blew my mind. Then you said it was designed by politicians instead of engineers and it all made sense. Very fascinating story!
I can see a few parallels with the Royal Navy's HMS Hood of 1891. The First Sea Lord wanted one of the new Royal Sovereign class to have its four 13.5" guns in a pair of old style heavy turrets instead of the new armoured open barbettes which had been introduced. Because of the extra weight of the fully armoured turrets they had to be mounted a deck lower. The lack of freeboard made her like a half tide rock, taking aboard 200 tons of water on one occasion and was difficult to maneuver. She had been for sale at the start of the first World War but no buyer being found it was decided to scuttle her as a blockship at Portland Harbour. Even that didn't go well as she capsized as she sank and now lies upside down across a disused harbour entrance. She is apparently a hazardous dive due to the strong tides through the narrow entrance.
Great info Mike, thanks for sharing! Seems that British battleships have a thing for not allowing themselves to be scrapped 😂 Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Hood is also a rusting hulk on the sea floor, and she was built earlier as part of the 1889 programme. So does that make her the "oldest battleship still in existence"? The steel battleships of the 1890s were rather wonderful machines for their day. Finding fault in them is a comparative thing. But definitely a lot was attempted on very limited displacements with the first American trio. Not until the start of the 1900s did they really strike the right balance, IMO. Dropping the heavy and by then nearly useless twin 8-inch turrets was the right way to go at the start of the 20th C.
they did put electric motors on Gatling guns in the late 19th century, but at the time no one could see a use for such a fast firing gun, at the time armies had magazine cut offs in rifles to prevent excessive ammo usage, so a gun that fired 1500 rounds a minute (as built by Crocker-wheeler motor company)was too expensive to run!
the committee who designed these confections of incompetence had obviously never heard of the English 'Mary Rose' of King Henry VIII or the Swedish 'Vasa' of King of Gustavus Adolphus, both so overloaded with cannon that they turned turtle and sank.
Why didn't they balance the guns in the turret in such a way that the center of mass matches the center of rotation?? I don't need to be a genius or an engineer to consider that obvious.
Worst US battleship? - Perhaps the original steel Texas. The old Oregon rounded the Horn on her way from Bremerton to Santiago - not bad 4 N old low-freeboard ship. After a string of stacked-turret & other ideas, the Massachusetts' porcupine gun layout was basically returned 2 4 American predreadnoughts 'til our pocket South Carolina dreadnoughts brought us halfway N2 a new age
From an overhead view, they looked as if they were designed after a short, recreational canoe, next to a hollow log, one of the shakiest designs known to man
Just found your channel. Really great video. WW2 is 1 of my favorite part of history. The bravery of everyone that sacrificed so much makes me beam with pride. Being a believer in we need that bravery now more than ever. Keep up the great work.
This review of these committee designed battleships reminds me of the early attempts of the French Navy trying to come up with battleship designs to out class the English Navy. The French designs are referred to as being like Hotels.
I heard the beginning and all I thought was Red Letter Media, Mr. Plinkett saying “Star Was The Phantom Menace was the most disappointing thing since my son.” 😂
Strikes me that those ships were also top heavy - an incredible clutter of gewgaws above the deck. It's a wonder they didn't roll over and sink on launching! Interesting video . . . and I wonder how these compared with British ships of the time, and then with the "Dreadnought".
The contemporary RN ships were the 8 Royal Sovereigns which were regarded as being a fairly successful design for their time. They were retired just after Dreadnought was launched
It's not really the "oldest battleship still in existence". HMVS Cerberus was launched in 1869 and is, similarly, a marine reef off a beach in Melbourne, Australia. The USS Massachusetts is around 27 years younger. There may even be older ships, if "in existence" means a few fragments of rust are left. The Cerberus design was based on the USS Monitor.
Oh, you need 300 million? Here’s 12. Oh, and not only are we not going to fund you, we’re going to tell you how to build the ship, despite the fact that we’re just a bunch of suits at a big table, and we have NO idea how to design a ship. And then when we do it wrong, it’s your fault. How did we get here… madness. Absolute madness.
I saw an article a few months ago titled “The Worst Battleship Ever” and it was about THIS Massachusetts. However, it used pictures showing the Iowa class. I was confused at first. Edited: I mistook the USS Massachusetts for the USS Missouri
The later USS Massachusetts (BB-49) was a South Dakota class battleship, the class immediately preceding the Iowas. She was shorter, slower by a few knots and carried a somewhat less powerful 16” gun than the Iowas, but had a similar appearance and secondary armament.
she was caught between two beliefs and times: isolation and defense vs. being a world power, then of being the 19th century emphasis on bombardment vs. ship to ship battles… she wasn’t a slouch in any category, she was simply caught in the state if flux for the time period. she at least survived far longer than the vast majority of her contemporaries and managed to be useful until the end! she was far from the worst, she was just misunderstood and overlooked because of shiny new toys
BB-3 the USS Oregon was the first museum ship prior to WWII. During WWII she was activated as an ammunition ship at the Battle Of Okinawa. She was scrapped after the war. During the Spanish American War, the Oregon became famous for her speedy run from San Francisco to Cuba in 66 days (this was before the canal). During the Battle of Cuba, Oregon bracketed the Spanish ship Cristóbal Colón and caused the Spanish captain to scuttle his ship. She was also the fastest battle ship in the US navy at the time. She also did convey escort during the allied intervention in the Russian Revolution, and the Philippine-American War and the Boxer Rebellion. I would argue that this class of battleship was a work in progress. As a fighting ship she did the job at the time.
'Harked back', not 'hearkened back''; one craft, several craft. Please kill me. This was really interesting and very well scripted. So much worthwhile information about the ship and its current occupants, and how to get to visit them.
The things that made _Dreadnought_ special weren't things you could retrofit onto a ship. You'd have to replace the engines, rebuild the hull to get some more freeboard, and get rid of enough of the superstructure to fit more 13" turrets (and associated machinery) and/or replace the main guns with something smaller. You would spend less money building a larger, more capable ship. Or you could do what they did, cheap out and do the minimum to make it not suck too badly.
Completely respect the opinions expressed here - but one must consider - the Indiana Class were a pre-dreadnaught battleships using the best 19th century technology available (laid down in 1891, they were authorized in 1889). USS Oregon performed quite well in the Spanish-American War - and while it's true it's sea keeping issues were never fully resolved - one must look at the Kearsarge Class pre-dreadnaughts for some real problems with design. Consisting of the USS Kearsarge and USS Kentucky, they were two classes after the Indiana's (after the pre-dreadnaught Iowas) and their main armament were two turrets, fore and aft - with two levels of guns - two 5 inchers over two 8 inchers per turret - the only time this configuration would ever be used with good reason.
Actually the USS Oregon was saved by the donations of school kids from the scrap heap. However inWWII it was taken by the Navy and used as an Ammo Barge in the Pacific where it was sunk in the Island Hopping Campaign.
2nd Greatest, the Royal Navy was the premier naval power from the 18th century through WW1, and for the early part of WW2, the USN in contrast is today barely equal to the WW1 grand fleet in ship numbers and the Royal Navy's once global reach.
If it could have gotten onto the great lakes then it would have made an excellent training ship like those ships that were converted so carrier pilots could have been trained.
Except that would have been a violation of the Rush-Bagot treaty which demilitarized the Great Lakes. The treaty wasn’t suspended until 1942, after the U.S. allied with Canada and the U.K. for WW2, and then amended in 1946 to allow training cruises.
@@zxjim I didn't know about that history. Speaking about great lake treaties, the great lakes have got themselves an agreement when would prevent states like Nevada and their corporate farmers from running a pipeline to the Great lakes. The south west is in a water crisis and you still see farmers growing onions to sell to china to feed their pigs. I wish the Great Lakes would look forward the next 100 years with how the south West & Mid west keep sinking deeper ground water wells.
Actually just read that story the other day. Very interesting! I personally believe it to be the stress of the situation that cause him to think it was a sea monster that killed his friends. Thanks for watching!
And I am always confused by all other videos about ships because I'm not a sailor. Personally, I appreciated that he used units I could relate to so I could better understand the scale of things. I get that it may not have been as proper, but given the casual nature of the video, I like that I can understand it vs knots and "gross registered tons" or other units that carry no meaning to a land-lubber like me.
OK , those ships took on Spains best ships ,and for what they were they did there jobs, the oregon ran down a cruiser, and sank her, she might have been outclassed, but the new battleships outclassed all other battlleships
The pre-dreadnought battleship, Mikasa, built in Barrow in Furness in north west England is still above the waves and open to vistors in Yokosuka. Unlike the USS Massachusetts, Mikasa was a succesful ship and led the 1st Japanese Fleet into combat at Tsushima. Mikasa is the only surviving example of a pre-dreadnought battleship in the world.
yet they did one major fuck up with the old lady, encasing her in concrete instead of water or mud. bc concrete is corrossive to the steel and thx to how ships are designed, she'll pancake over time and they cant even fix the hull once the concrete ate through
@@kuroinamida4630 If she hadn't been encased in concrete in 1924, she would have been used as a training ship in WW2 and would almost certainly have been destroyed later in the war. So in fact it is the concrete that saved her. Sure, it is a major problem, but I feel the Japanese will find a way to preserve her safely eventually.
@@kuroinamida4630 actaully the concrete was to comply with the worldwide naval treaties, preserving historical ships was not a wolrdwide phenomenon in those days, and the USN insisted if she was still afload she would count against treaty tonnage limitaions.
To be fair to the old girl, there were ALOT of ships designed in this era that were pretty terrible. It was a time of experimentation and invention that naval architects really did not have designs nailed down yet.
Agree! Very interesting/rapidly advancing period in naval ship building. Could honestly explore any countries building at that time! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Um, no. She was started 3 years before HMS Dreadnought, despite having design worse than 25 year old ships at the time. It's like Windows ME trying to compete with Windows 10...
@@KuK137 I have no idea where you get your information from, but HMS dreadnought was commissioned in 1906 and was laid down the year before. She was a rush build to get her completed before the US completed the South Carolina class and the IJN the Kawachi class. HMS Dreadnought was very much a ship 10-15 years ahead of any of the Indiana's in her timeline. The Indiana's were laid down in 1891, launched in 1893, and were in commission 1895-1896. She was fairly typical for a pre-dreadnought of her time. And in no way was she an inferior to a ship from the 1870s or 1880s. Had she come across anything like HMS Colossus, Ajax, or the Admiral classes (dreadnoughts of the late 1870s and early 1880s), USS Indiana would have absolutely spanked them with her superior range, heavier armament, and better armor. At worst, she was somewhat inferior to the contemporary pre-dreadnoughts of the Royal Navy, and that was mostly due to limitations in range and seakeeping, which were not considerations in her design. She was designed for firepower and armor, and sacrificed range and seakeeping to do it. The Indiana class were always meant to be a coastal defense battleship, as she was the first USN battleship besides the USS Texas, which came out a few years before and was very much a test bed of technology for a navy that had yet to build many ironclads since the American Civil War due to their limited budget
Really enjoyed the video but I'd like to encourage you to use knots rather than mph and maybe tons rather than pounds? Or even just add the later as a note at the bottom. Not a deal breaker and I learned something new so thank you.
I watch a lot of videos like this, but I'm not a sailor, so I appreciated the fact that he used units that I'm familiar with, even if they aren't appropriate to the subject matter. For the first time in a long time, I actually had a unit I could relate to and better understand the scale of what he referenced. Knots means nothing to me as a guy who walks, runs, and drives, but MPH does. Similarly with pounds vs all the different tonnage units I hear in these videos. I mean, I have no idea what a "gross registered ton", or a "long ton", or any of those other units are, but hearing "100,000 pounds" helps me grasp how immense something was in units I can relate to.
Ya I try to put some stuff in more general terms for people who arent super educated on these areas. The notes at the bottom for showing both is a good idea that I’ll use in the future though! Appreciate you watching still! Have a great week!
@@HiddenHistoryYT I appreciate you have to serve a US audience who do not deal in international terms but CZcams is by no means a purely US platform. Thumbs down for this one.
@@EuroScot2023 bruh I literally just said in the future I’ll put both conversations lmao. Gosh you lot are hard to make happy aren’t you. I hope you can find some happiness in the rest of your day, have a great week!
Can it be said that the US Navy's 'Great White Fleet' that followed after USS Massachusetts is an even bigger 'waste of steel'? The last pre-dreadnought class battleship commissioned into the US Navy was the Mississippi Class in 1908, two years after HMS Dreadnought. So that Royal Navy warship made the entire 'Great White Fleet' obsolete
I wouldn't say worst. There were a lot of really terrible warships back then, including the French pre-Dreadnoughts. From the end of the US Civil War until the Spanish American War, there were no significant naval conflicts anywhere in the world, and technology was advancing rapidly during this time. But because it was all untested, there were lots of horribly flawed theories. Dreadnought herself had numerous design flaws, and it was, in fact, the USS South Carolina that would set the basic pattern that future battleships would follow.
" It was, in fact, the USS South Carolina that would set the basic pattern that future battleships would follow." In having superfiring main turrets on the centerline, yes. In terms of their propulsion architecture - maxing out at only 18.5 knots using traditional triple expansion engines - not quite. Dreadnought's introduction of turbine engines to capital ship design was almost as revolutionary as her all big gun main armament.
P.S. This is not to belittle the US Navy's advance in pushing superfiring turrets through on South Carolina because it *was* a gamble, and yet the US Navy Board pushed it through anyway - and they were vindicated. It is true that weight considerations put more pressure on South Carolina's designers, because (thanks to the usual congressional penny-pinching) she had to be a solid couple thousand tons less than Dreadnought, and superfiring allowed the length of the ship to be shortened; whereas the the greater size Fisher had to work with actually worked against the urgency to consider it. In the end, of course, all battleships authorized after 1910 would eventually use superfiring main turrets. I think Dreadnought rightly earned her fame; but South Carolina should not be forgotten for making an important contribution to naval technology, too.
Nice video and interesting information. One little suggestion. You might consider toning down the artificial "film scratches" on the old still pictures. To me, that distracts from your historical content. 😉
Thanks .. good video, As a long time resident and fisherman out of Pensacola.. we go to the 'Mass' dozens of times to catch bait and fish. In the 70' both turrets were awash and you could see the openings for the 13 inch guns .. now only the west turret becomes exposed at very low tides or between swells ... And I have lost at least one cast net there. Every so often a boat piles up on here, despite having a large red buoy with flashing red light near by .. A boat hit a turret and eventually sank at the last Blue Angels Air Show July 2022
Thanks for watching Keith and sharing this great local information that helps to paint a better picture! How is the fishing there? I’ve heard it’s not the safest place to dive or be out swimming! I also read the account of the “Sea Monster” the other day as well. Also interesting to hear that she’s still sinking ships a 100 years later here! Hope you have a great week :)
@Hidden History Since the Mass holds a lot of bait its good for Spanish and King Mackerel.. and occasional cobia in the warmer months .. lots of spad fish and huge remora .. I have heard of a Jewfish hanging out there too.. some sheepshead early spring and a few mangrove snapper in the fall. In the early summer we have an incoming tide in the morning .. and from daylight to mid morning may, June July there may be a dozen boats or more catching bait,mostly with sabiki rigs. You are 100% correct about catching slack high tide as the prime time to dive or snorkel.. but when it's right its spectacular
@@HiddenHistoryYT Apology accepted! It's funny, though, the 1000' vessels that sail the Great Lakes, carrying iron ore and coal are called....boats! I really enjoyed the video on the MASSACHUSETTS! Keep up the good work!
Just to be clear, the French Pre-dreadnoughts exist. The Carnot for instance was launched in 1897, and is worse than a ship 6 years it senior despite decades of experience.
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Oldest battleship still in existence.. you mean that hulk of rust that sits below the waterline????? Laughing in several European languages.
we may not be an imperial power but it sure did look like one at one point.
Is that Flounder???
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Ships going obsolete quickly was common in that time period. Even HMS Dreadnaught was outclassed by 1911 with the Iron Dukes and obsolete by 1913 with the Queen Elisabeth class
Very true, great point! Thanks for watching and have a great week!
The Royal Navy had some obsolete warships at the outbreak of WW1 . The 3 Cressy class ships were sent to the bottom of the Channel with most of their young crews,,,
@@MrPomdownunder All nations had. All pre Dreadnaught battleship and pre Battlecruiser armored cruisers where obsolete
Good Old Warspite, never obsolete, just worn out.
@@russetwolf13
HMS Warspite has got to be the best name ever for a Warship
Love the straight forward narration
I love you, and your content! Have a great week Brett!
Indeed. The facts with no BS. 👏
@@barrysrcdump3557 Hate the fake added film noise that tries to make a zoom on a still feel like archival footage. Phony.
That's how progres is made
@@HiddenHistoryYT Good work,yes I agree,it was a waste,as its small size allows waves to flood the deck,even if they aim guns at the same side there could eazely fire and flood half of the port deck
The mast of the USS Oregon is prominently displayed in Portland's Waterfront Park. Considering it's one of the few military monuments in the city, I think most Portlanders assume the USS Oregon was a highly distinguished naval ship -- not a poorly designed, boondoggle.
She should still be a museum ship to this day! Thanks for watching Norm and have a great weekend :)
I'm pretty sure Oregon's hull was used in WW2 as an ammunition barge and was later towed to Japan and scrapped.
The USS Oregon had to run full speed around South America in order to get to the first naval battle of the Spanish-American War in Cuba with no time to spare. It took almost a month but demonstrated the need to build the Panama Canal if America expected to have a two ocean navy.
She *was* quite distinguished in terms of her service history. She might not have been well-designed but her crew performed admirably during the Spanish-American War and she played an important role in the defeat of the Spanish navy.
You’d have to be straight up stupid to live in Portland anymore so that’s not surprising at all
At the time, modern battleships were still a work in progress. Naval architects were still learning how to design battleships.
Very true! Thanks for watching!
Just so. It might almost be better, as Drachinifel among others has suggested, that it's better to look at dreadnought and pre-dreadnought battleships as entirely separate categories in making assessments like "best," and "worst." (I suppose you could even break out ironclad battleships and fast battleships as further categories...but I think Dreadnought marks the most important dividing line.)
Nah, by 1903 the pre dreadnought era was in full swing with many nations having successful pre dreadnought designs and even ships considered semi dreadnoughts. These things look like they came from 1880s. Just terrible design.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Well, you could throw the Indianas into the "Ironclad battleships" category if you want. But honestly, given when they hit the water, I think they deserve to compared to what was dominant by that point, and that was pre-dreads. And these were surely pretty inadequate by any pre-dread standard you like.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 where did 1903 come from? Massachusetts was designed in 1890. Maybe it looks like it’s from the 1880s because it nearly was.
Fascinating history! I also saw “monitor” in the design. One thing for certain was that while the Monitor classes were essential for the US Navy during the Civil War, their limitations were well known to the sailors of the day. On the other hand, to this day there is a place for fast shallow draft and coastal craft that pack big fire power. Trying to get the formula right amidst bureaucratic bickering is an art. Nothing’s perfect. Got to leave some room for American kids having to go into harms way in them to exercise some ingenuity.
Very insightful and delightful comment! Appreciate this information and perspective! Completely agree with you on everything you’ve said here, especially the bureaucracy aspect. Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
the issue isn’t so much the draft, it’s the balance and height above the waterline…this design was fine for its intended role. it was only when foreign policy and firepower abroad was brought into the equation did the design have issues and even then it was better balanced than ships in the past thanks yo splitting the firepower fore and aft and on both sides
No progress in ages, then an explosion of innovation
These early US Battleships always seemed like a pretty neat topic to me. I’d love to see you come back and cover another early class of US Battleships
I will look into that and see what I can find! Appreciate the suggestion and thanks for watching :)
I think it was nice of the Navy to provide such a great fish shelter.
😂😂 not wrong. Appreciate you watching Colin and have a great weekend :)
Not the only one either, USS Oriskany was sunk nearby after they figured out old warships make good artificial reefs.
@butchs.4239 Actually, Oriskany was sunk off the east coast of Florida nearly 450 miles away, not nearby by any means.
BB-3 Oregon was a museum ship in Portland from the early 1920s to 1941, when the Navy took her back for scrap. When the superstructure was mostly cut up, they decided to use the hull as an ammunition barge for the invasion of Guam, and she wasn’t scrapped until the mid-1950s. The mast is currently on display in Portland, and the funnels are in storage.
Still don’t get why FDR didn’t save her. She should still be a museum ship to this day IMO
Others made some good points about the pace of technological change and obsolescence of ships in this era, and they're right- the whole era from the 1870s to the 1900s was one of unprecedented and probably since unequalled pace of change in naval design and gunnery and armour technology, despite several contending later periods. But these ships certainly are among those that were frankly failures even as built but, all the same, interesting failures that still managed to give some service. Good video!
Completely agree. Thanks for watching!
Then 70 sum years later Nimitz broke the mold basically
I would say the HMS Captain (1869) (that only lasted for 4 months before rolling over and sinking) may be far worse than this ship.
Or the Swedish Vasa.
Another valuable piece of American military history.
Thanks a lot, Colin UK 🇬🇧
Thanks for watching and engaging Colin! Have a great week over there across the pond!
I'd give the title of "worst" to HMS Victoria.
A more poorly designed USN battleship class would be the ones with the stacked turrets.
I’ll do a little deep dive on those this week. Thanks for watching and have a great week!
Bilge Keels are basically a metal fin running down the port and. Starboard side usually at the corner of the sides. They are angled and help with stability. It's one of the few things you see still riveted on the hulls of modern ships.
FYI Mare Island could have handled the conversion.
Great info Mike! Appreciate you watching and engaging! Have a great week :)
If I may add: Bilge keels are there to provide resistance to the ship rolling from side to side, extending the rolling period. Ships with a low GM ( centre of gravity not very high above the keel, as a very basic explanation) tend to have very short rolling periods which can be very unpleasant to the crew.
There were lessons to be learned and the Navy learned them all!
Very true. Thanks for watching Thomas and have a great week!
You must've meant this sarcastically. Ha ha.
She may have made for an awful battleship, but as a nature preserve she is unmatched.
Well, as my grandfather used to say, "things are never so useless it ain't useful for something".
Sounds like a smart man 😂
Unfortunately he was talking about your grandmother 🤣😝😂
Wait wait wait, I'm just kidding I couldn't pass it up.
7:21 There is a sizable part of me that misses the design choices of this particular time period. The white hull, beige upper decks and opulent bow, stern and turret ornaments just look so damn classy to my eye.
I do wish we would bring back the white paint schemes, is quite stunning in my opinion. Appreciate you watching and engaging Will! Have a great week :)
It would be nice if the restorers of USS Texas chose something other than that horrible blue paint.
The Oregon did several things that changed the United States into a world power.
The ship was the most famous vessel in the world during its trip around sailing from the west coast around Tierra Del Fuego and sailing to Cuba to arrive at San Juan Bay.
The Oregon's Captain kept his ship's boilers hot and steam up with his Cardiff Coal waiting for the bottled up Spanish Navy to make a run for it.
Most the rest of the U.S. Navy ship's had let their steam run down,and when the Spaniards made the breakout the Oregon was able to run them down.
That trip around South America gave Teddey Roosevelt the ammunition to complete the Panama Canal, and inherit The Phillipines, and a host of Pacific Islands that the Japanese tried to occupy and keep in 1941.
So was the Oregon and her sisters were supposedly the worst Battleship's in the world?
The only way Congress in the 1890's would approve more Naval vessels would be to classify them as "coastal defense ships".
The U.S. was very protectionist minded in those years.
They were as stated, just upgraded river monitors.
Excellent information Jim! Appreciate you sharing this and watching the video! Have a great week :)
And then Great Britain built HMS Dreadnought!
Appreciate you watching Andrew, have a great week!
@andrew allen. Which was sold for scape in 1921 because the revolution she caused spurred on a design revolution that rendered her obsolete.
You think yourself a student of history and along comes a story like this and reinvigorates my thirst for historical knowledge. The fact that port and starboard secondary guns dipped into the water when the big guns swiveled to the side blew my mind. Then you said it was designed by politicians instead of engineers and it all made sense. Very fascinating story!
Appreciate you watching Ron! Have a great week :)
It wasnt designed by politicians at all
@@amblincork Perhaps "interfered with" would be a more apt description if that adds clarity for you.
I can see a few parallels with the Royal Navy's HMS Hood of 1891. The First Sea Lord wanted one of the new Royal Sovereign class to have its four 13.5" guns in a pair of old style heavy turrets instead of the new armoured open barbettes which had been introduced. Because of the extra weight of the fully armoured turrets they had to be mounted a deck lower. The lack of freeboard made her like a half tide rock, taking aboard 200 tons of water on one occasion and was difficult to maneuver. She had been for sale at the start of the first World War but no buyer being found it was decided to scuttle her as a blockship at Portland Harbour. Even that didn't go well as she capsized as she sank and now lies upside down across a disused harbour entrance. She is apparently a hazardous dive due to the strong tides through the narrow entrance.
Great info Mike, thanks for sharing! Seems that British battleships have a thing for not allowing themselves to be scrapped 😂 Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Hood is also a rusting hulk on the sea floor, and she was built earlier as part of the 1889 programme. So does that make her the "oldest battleship still in existence"?
The steel battleships of the 1890s were rather wonderful machines for their day. Finding fault in them is a comparative thing. But definitely a lot was attempted on very limited displacements with the first American trio. Not until the start of the 1900s did they really strike the right balance, IMO. Dropping the heavy and by then nearly useless twin 8-inch turrets was the right way to go at the start of the 20th C.
The gatling guns were the direct predecessors to the Phalanx CIWS 20mm gatling shipboard defense system we have today.
Great info! Thanks for watching and have a great week!
they did put electric motors on Gatling guns in the late 19th century, but at the time no one could see a use for such a fast firing gun, at the time armies had magazine cut offs in rifles to prevent excessive ammo usage, so a gun that fired 1500 rounds a minute (as built by Crocker-wheeler motor company)was too expensive to run!
@@andreww2098 wow, great info Andrew! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
the committee who designed these confections of incompetence had obviously never heard of the English 'Mary Rose' of King Henry VIII or the Swedish 'Vasa' of King of Gustavus Adolphus, both so overloaded with cannon that they turned turtle and sank.
Thanks for watching :)
@@HiddenHistoryYT my pleasure entirely
Congress 1890: We're not sure we want to spent that much money.
Congress 2023: HERE'S THE CHECKBOOK!!!!
Its already overdrawn
😂😂
The battle cruiser Olympia is still afloat as a museum at Philadelphia’s Seaport Museum. Really worth the visit as it was from the same era.
I need to see it still!
She isn’t a battlecruiser, she is a protected cruiser. Though she definitely fought like a battleship
Politicians are not exactly noted for wisdom and foresight. 😂
😂
Why didn't they balance the guns in the turret in such a way that the center of mass matches the center of rotation?? I don't need to be a genius or an engineer to consider that obvious.
Great question!
I'm so glad you weren't talking about the South Dakota class Massachusetts!
😂😂 she was quite a different ship
Good info. Nicely presented. Subbed
Thanks for watching and subbing TK, have a great week!
Worst US battleship? - Perhaps the original steel Texas.
The old Oregon rounded the Horn on her way from Bremerton to Santiago - not bad 4 N old low-freeboard ship.
After a string of stacked-turret & other ideas, the Massachusetts' porcupine gun layout was basically returned 2 4 American predreadnoughts 'til our pocket South Carolina dreadnoughts brought us halfway N2 a new age
I’ll second that. The OG Texas (not the dreadnaught) was limited in how she could reload her guns to a comical extent
The Texas never got a hull number, so technically B1/BB1 Oregon is still the first US BB. on a technicality...
So, they were the Pontiac Aztecs before their time?
😂😂
How dare you besmirch the name of one of the greatest cars ever made
Well narrated. I've been schooled about these ill fated ships. Thank you.
Appreciate the kind words Charles! Thanks for watching and have a great rest of your day :)
Good story. Total failure as a battleship but an overwhelming success as an artificial reef. Awesome!
Thanks for watching :)
Oldest battleship HMS Victory 1765.Oldest Ironclad HMS Warrior 1860 and oldest turreted battleship HMVS Cerberus 1871
The French: "...Tiens ma Vin"
😂😂
Now that was one extraordinarily good; (abbreviated) documentary. *The more I watch, the more I'm glad I subscribed!*
Greatly appreciate it Jeff!
@@HiddenHistoryYT Ditto!
From an overhead view, they looked as if they were designed after a short, recreational canoe, next to a hollow log, one of the shakiest designs known to man
Hadn’t though of it like that but you are right! Thanks for watching!
The photo of the crew under the canopy... right in the middle is “That Guy” that every group has, that thinks he the most hilarious guy around!
😂
I just want to appreciate that a construct so horrible at giving death is proving so good at providing a space for life.
Lovely perspective! Thanks for watching :)
Just found your channel. Really great video. WW2 is 1 of my favorite part of history. The bravery of everyone that sacrificed so much makes me beam with pride. Being a believer in we need that bravery now more than ever. Keep up the great work.
Appreciate it Jamie! Thanks for watching and have a great rest of your week :)
The real failure would have been not to learn from the mistakes they made.
Like the disaster that was the Mark 14 torpedo.
The Vasa, the Mary Rose, the Massachusetts.... This is what happens when politicians pretend to be engineers.
Political idiots need to stay out wars.Let the military do their job!
This review of these committee designed battleships reminds me of the early attempts of the French Navy trying to come up with battleship designs to out class the English Navy. The French designs are referred to as being like Hotels.
Great info! I love the look of those old French ships tbh. Thanks for watching and have a great week Dan!
Certainly explains why Drachinifel calls his video on French Pre-Dreadnoughts: When Hotels go to war
@@justinwoolsey4269 Love his channel and that video!
I heard the beginning and all I thought was Red Letter Media, Mr. Plinkett saying “Star Was The Phantom Menace was the most disappointing thing since my son.” 😂
😂😂
Strikes me that those ships were also top heavy - an incredible clutter of gewgaws above the deck. It's a wonder they didn't roll over and sink on launching! Interesting video . . . and I wonder how these compared with British ships of the time, and then with the "Dreadnought".
Thanks for watching Richard! Have a great week :)
The contemporary RN ships were the 8 Royal Sovereigns which were regarded as being a fairly successful design for their time. They were retired just after Dreadnought was launched
@@jamesmaclennan4525 And all obsolete on the arrival of the "Dreadnought".
@@richardcleveland8549 well yes that is why they were basically hulked in 1904.
@@jamesmaclennan4525 Sunk in the right places, they might've been fine breeding places for fish . . . their highest and best use.
I don't think a wreck belongs into the category "battleships in existence".
HMAS Cerberus 1869 launched monitor style ship still exists too in port phillip bay as a dive attraction.
Very interesting, I'll have to check that out! Thanks for watching!
US Navy: "Guns, lots of guns"
BB hulls: "I'm in trouble"
😂😂
It's not really the "oldest battleship still in existence". HMVS Cerberus was launched in 1869 and is, similarly, a marine reef off a beach in Melbourne, Australia. The USS Massachusetts is around 27 years younger. There may even be older ships, if "in existence" means a few fragments of rust are left.
The Cerberus design was based on the USS Monitor.
What about HMS Warrior (1860)? You can see her afloat in Porstmouth.
Oh, you need 300 million? Here’s 12.
Oh, and not only are we not going to fund you, we’re going to tell you how to build the ship, despite the fact that we’re just a bunch of suits at a big table, and we have NO idea how to design a ship. And then when we do it wrong, it’s your fault.
How did we get here… madness. Absolute madness.
Thanks for watching :)
Less smokey than the Admiral Kuznetsov. At least she's got that going for her, which is nice.
I saw an article a few months ago titled “The Worst Battleship Ever” and it was about THIS Massachusetts. However, it used pictures showing the Iowa class. I was confused at first.
Edited: I mistook the USS Massachusetts for the USS Missouri
The later USS Massachusetts, BB-59, was a South Dakota class, not an Iowa class battleship.
@@JLange642 my mistake
I was thinking of the Missouri
The later USS Massachusetts (BB-49) was a South Dakota class battleship, the class immediately preceding the Iowas. She was shorter, slower by a few knots and carried a somewhat less powerful 16” gun than the Iowas, but had a similar appearance and secondary armament.
Big Mamie is a South Dakota class. Not Iowa.
BB-59
she was caught between two beliefs and times: isolation and defense vs. being a world power, then of being the 19th century emphasis on bombardment vs. ship to ship battles…
she wasn’t a slouch in any category, she was simply caught in the state if flux for the time period. she at least survived far longer than the vast majority of her contemporaries and managed to be useful until the end!
she was far from the worst, she was just misunderstood and overlooked because of shiny new toys
A very interesting time in naval design for sure! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Solid video. I loved when you began talking about those BOATS. Just subbed my bro
Love your content! Thanks for watching!
Don't you guys use 'tons' for heavy items at all?
BB-3 the USS Oregon was the first museum ship prior to WWII. During WWII she was activated as an ammunition ship at the Battle Of Okinawa. She was scrapped after the war. During the Spanish American War, the Oregon became famous for her speedy run from San Francisco to Cuba in 66 days (this was before the canal). During the Battle of Cuba, Oregon bracketed the Spanish ship Cristóbal Colón and caused the Spanish captain to scuttle his ship. She was also the fastest battle ship in the US navy at the time. She also did convey escort during the allied intervention in the Russian Revolution, and the Philippine-American War and the Boxer Rebellion. I would argue that this class of battleship was a work in progress. As a fighting ship she did the job at the time.
Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
“Fledging Navy”? The United States Navy had only been in existence since July, 1799.
But until this era it was essentially negligible to any serious naval power. Small and antiqued.
A few South American navies were bigger than the US Navy up to the 1890s.
Designed by a panel and it ended up junk, eh? Reminds me of that old joke -
Q - "What do you call a horse designed by a committee?"
A - "A camel."
😂😂😂
I believe these are the battleships that the Monopoly Battleship Game Piece was designed from.
Very interesting! Thanks for watching and have a great week Scott!
'Harked back', not 'hearkened back''; one craft, several craft.
Please kill me. This was really interesting and very well scripted. So much worthwhile information about the ship and its current occupants, and how to get to visit them.
13” guns with only a 2 mile range?
The oldest BB in existence...... Eh what? It's a rusted hulk at the bottom of the ocean.
😂
I would have thought that HMS Dreadnought (1906) was a major factor in the redesign of all these types of ships during this era.
The things that made _Dreadnought_ special weren't things you could retrofit onto a ship. You'd have to replace the engines, rebuild the hull to get some more freeboard, and get rid of enough of the superstructure to fit more 13" turrets (and associated machinery) and/or replace the main guns with something smaller. You would spend less money building a larger, more capable ship. Or you could do what they did, cheap out and do the minimum to make it not suck too badly.
Completely respect the opinions expressed here - but one must consider - the Indiana Class were a pre-dreadnaught battleships using the best 19th century technology available (laid down in 1891, they were authorized in 1889). USS Oregon performed quite well in the Spanish-American War - and while it's true it's sea keeping issues were never fully resolved - one must look at the Kearsarge Class pre-dreadnaughts for some real problems with design. Consisting of the USS Kearsarge and USS Kentucky, they were two classes after the Indiana's (after the pre-dreadnaught Iowas) and their main armament were two turrets, fore and aft - with two levels of guns - two 5 inchers over two 8 inchers per turret - the only time this configuration would ever be used with good reason.
Great information here Mike! Appreciate you watching the video and engaging! Have a great week :)
Actually the USS Oregon was saved by the donations of school kids from the scrap heap. However inWWII it was taken by the Navy and used as an Ammo Barge in the Pacific where it was sunk in the Island Hopping Campaign.
2nd Greatest, the Royal Navy was the premier naval power from the 18th century through WW1, and for the early part of WW2, the USN in contrast is today barely equal to the WW1 grand fleet in ship numbers and the Royal Navy's once global reach.
Great insight! Thanks for watching :)
If it could have gotten onto the great lakes then it would have made an excellent training ship like those ships that were converted so carrier pilots could have been trained.
That would’ve been a great option I hadn’t thought of! Thanks for watching!
Except that would have been a violation of the Rush-Bagot treaty which demilitarized the Great Lakes. The treaty wasn’t suspended until 1942, after the U.S. allied with Canada and the U.K. for WW2, and then amended in 1946 to allow training cruises.
@@zxjim excellent point and information Jim!
@@zxjim I didn't know about that history. Speaking about great lake treaties, the great lakes have got themselves an agreement when would prevent states like Nevada and their corporate farmers from running a pipeline to the Great lakes.
The south west is in a water crisis and you still see farmers growing onions to sell to china to feed their pigs.
I wish the Great Lakes would look forward the next 100 years with how the south West & Mid west keep sinking deeper ground water wells.
The U.S.S. Oregon had a nickname and that was, " McKinley's Bulldog."
Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
the Austrians had one similar to this on a lake, sunk by an Italian torpedo boat.
Very cool, didn't know that! Thanks for watching and have a great week!
"We'll build a battleship with guns and guns on top of the guns."😅
😂😂
What about that sea monster that lives nearby?lol
Actually just read that story the other day. Very interesting! I personally believe it to be the stress of the situation that cause him to think it was a sea monster that killed his friends. Thanks for watching!
I don’t think you can call a shipwreck the “oldest battleship still in existence”
That would be the USS Texas....
Indeed and given all the guns were removed it cant be called a battle ship at all
As Ship designs improve on the failures from previous designs, politicians have gone in the opposite direction.
That ship design was very steampunk.
Very true! Thanks for watching!
Excellent and interesting. Please give the speed in knots and mass in Tons. All other ships are described in this manner
I need tons and knots also...thank you
And I am always confused by all other videos about ships because I'm not a sailor. Personally, I appreciated that he used units I could relate to so I could better understand the scale of things. I get that it may not have been as proper, but given the casual nature of the video, I like that I can understand it vs knots and "gross registered tons" or other units that carry no meaning to a land-lubber like me.
Ya I get both sides of it lol, can’t win either way. Thanks for watching though and have a great week Matt!
I’ll add conversion notes in the next one. Thanks for watching though and have a great week!
The WORST Battleship Ever Built?
HMS Captain: "Hold my lifeboats"
OK , those ships took on Spains best ships ,and for what they were they did there jobs, the oregon ran down a cruiser, and sank her, she might have been outclassed, but the new battleships outclassed all other battlleships
Interesting points Roger. Appreciate you watching and engaging! Have a great week :)
Thank-you for reading out the wikipedia article while showing slowly zooming in photos with an old-timey effect
Isn’t a Wikipedia article lmao
Great video
Thanks for watching! Have a great week!
Build to kill and destroy, now serves a home for life. Pretty poetic of the last 100 years of history.
Completely agree! Thanks for watching and have a great weekend :)
The pre-dreadnought battleship, Mikasa, built in Barrow in Furness in north west England is still above the waves and open to vistors in Yokosuka. Unlike the USS Massachusetts, Mikasa was a succesful ship and led the 1st Japanese Fleet into combat at Tsushima. Mikasa is the only surviving example of a pre-dreadnought battleship in the world.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting! And thanks for watching!
yet they did one major fuck up with the old lady, encasing her in concrete instead of water or mud.
bc concrete is corrossive to the steel and thx to how ships are designed, she'll pancake over time and they cant even fix the hull once the concrete ate through
@@kuroinamida4630 If she hadn't been encased in concrete in 1924, she would have been used as a training ship in WW2 and would almost certainly have been destroyed later in the war. So in fact it is the concrete that saved her. Sure, it is a major problem, but I feel the Japanese will find a way to preserve her safely eventually.
@@kuroinamida4630 actaully the concrete was to comply with the worldwide naval treaties, preserving historical ships was not a wolrdwide phenomenon in those days, and the USN insisted if she was still afload she would count against treaty tonnage limitaions.
The arrival of the Dreadnoughts made this ship obsolete. And not long after this ship was built.
Was a very interesting and rapidly advancing time for naval designs! Appreciate you watching Larry and have a great weekend :)
To be fair to the old girl, there were ALOT of ships designed in this era that were pretty terrible. It was a time of experimentation and invention that naval architects really did not have designs nailed down yet.
Agree! Very interesting/rapidly advancing period in naval ship building. Could honestly explore any countries building at that time! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Um, no. She was started 3 years before HMS Dreadnought, despite having design worse than 25 year old ships at the time. It's like Windows ME trying to compete with Windows 10...
@@KuK137 I have no idea where you get your information from, but HMS dreadnought was commissioned in 1906 and was laid down the year before. She was a rush build to get her completed before the US completed the South Carolina class and the IJN the Kawachi class. HMS Dreadnought was very much a ship 10-15 years ahead of any of the Indiana's in her timeline.
The Indiana's were laid down in 1891, launched in 1893, and were in commission 1895-1896. She was fairly typical for a pre-dreadnought of her time. And in no way was she an inferior to a ship from the 1870s or 1880s. Had she come across anything like HMS Colossus, Ajax, or the Admiral classes (dreadnoughts of the late 1870s and early 1880s), USS Indiana would have absolutely spanked them with her superior range, heavier armament, and better armor. At worst, she was somewhat inferior to the contemporary pre-dreadnoughts of the Royal Navy, and that was mostly due to limitations in range and seakeeping, which were not considerations in her design. She was designed for firepower and armor, and sacrificed range and seakeeping to do it. The Indiana class were always meant to be a coastal defense battleship, as she was the first USN battleship besides the USS Texas, which came out a few years before and was very much a test bed of technology for a navy that had yet to build many ironclads since the American Civil War due to their limited budget
Vasa is sitting in her museum berth, watching this video on her phone, and staying very, very quiet.
And HMS Captain can't get wifi at her depth.
😂😂
Really enjoyed the video but I'd like to encourage you to use knots rather than mph and maybe tons rather than pounds? Or even just add the later as a note at the bottom. Not a deal breaker and I learned something new so thank you.
I watch a lot of videos like this, but I'm not a sailor, so I appreciated the fact that he used units that I'm familiar with, even if they aren't appropriate to the subject matter. For the first time in a long time, I actually had a unit I could relate to and better understand the scale of what he referenced. Knots means nothing to me as a guy who walks, runs, and drives, but MPH does. Similarly with pounds vs all the different tonnage units I hear in these videos. I mean, I have no idea what a "gross registered ton", or a "long ton", or any of those other units are, but hearing "100,000 pounds" helps me grasp how immense something was in units I can relate to.
Ya I try to put some stuff in more general terms for people who arent super educated on these areas. The notes at the bottom for showing both is a good idea that I’ll use in the future though! Appreciate you watching still! Have a great week!
@@HiddenHistoryYT I appreciate you have to serve a US audience who do not deal in international terms but CZcams is by no means a purely US platform. Thumbs down for this one.
@@EuroScot2023 bruh I literally just said in the future I’ll put both conversations lmao. Gosh you lot are hard to make happy aren’t you. I hope you can find some happiness in the rest of your day, have a great week!
@@mattmorrisson9607 fair comment and an angle I hadn't considered. Thank you.
Can it be said that the US Navy's 'Great White Fleet' that followed after USS Massachusetts is an even bigger 'waste of steel'? The last pre-dreadnought class battleship commissioned into the US Navy was the Mississippi Class in 1908, two years after HMS Dreadnought. So that Royal Navy warship made the entire 'Great White Fleet' obsolete
You could very well argue that! Thanks for watching :)
Just one thing, when talking about speeds in a marine environment, please use knots (and nautical miles for distance)... Other than that, great video.
Will do in the future! Appreciate you watching and have a great weekend :)
I really like the addition of the information about the life that lives on/in it.
Thanks for watching :)
These vessels were called SHIPS, not "boats". As in Battleships, not battleboats. The little craft they carry onboard are boats.
Designers: How many guns do you want the boat to have?
US Govt: Yes.
Guns guns guns and more guns! Thanks for watching Bryan and have a great week :)
I wouldn't say worst. There were a lot of really terrible warships back then, including the French pre-Dreadnoughts. From the end of the US Civil War until the Spanish American War, there were no significant naval conflicts anywhere in the world, and technology was advancing rapidly during this time. But because it was all untested, there were lots of horribly flawed theories. Dreadnought herself had numerous design flaws, and it was, in fact, the USS South Carolina that would set the basic pattern that future battleships would follow.
Agreed on the technology part! Appreciate you watching and engaging! Have a great week!
French pre-dreadnaughts at least looked like floating hotels with the tumblehome hull :D
" It was, in fact, the USS South Carolina that would set the basic pattern that future battleships would follow." In having superfiring main turrets on the centerline, yes. In terms of their propulsion architecture - maxing out at only 18.5 knots using traditional triple expansion engines - not quite. Dreadnought's introduction of turbine engines to capital ship design was almost as revolutionary as her all big gun main armament.
@@hond654 the French used to have some crazy designed ships! Honestly like them a lot, very unique
P.S. This is not to belittle the US Navy's advance in pushing superfiring turrets through on South Carolina because it *was* a gamble, and yet the US Navy Board pushed it through anyway - and they were vindicated. It is true that weight considerations put more pressure on South Carolina's designers, because (thanks to the usual congressional penny-pinching) she had to be a solid couple thousand tons less than Dreadnought, and superfiring allowed the length of the ship to be shortened; whereas the the greater size Fisher had to work with actually worked against the urgency to consider it. In the end, of course, all battleships authorized after 1910 would eventually use superfiring main turrets. I think Dreadnought rightly earned her fame; but South Carolina should not be forgotten for making an important contribution to naval technology, too.
“Bumbling and disagreeable politicians” 😂. Nothing ever changes.
Very true 😂
Nice video and interesting information. One little suggestion. You might consider toning down the artificial "film scratches" on the old still pictures. To me, that distracts from your historical content. 😉
Will take that into account for future videos, appreciate the honest feedback! Thanks for watching and have a great week!
@@HiddenHistoryYT Thank you. I'm glad that you took that in the intended spirit. I liked and subscribed too. 👍
@@SkyWriter25 Thank you, I greatly appreciate it! Will have a long length video on the USS Wahoo and Mush Morton coming soon 😄
The perfect example of design-by- committee.
Never works out does it! Thanks for watching and have a great rest of your week Marv :)
So it was the worlds largest submarine!
Thanks .. good video,
As a long time resident and fisherman out of Pensacola.. we go to the 'Mass' dozens of times to catch bait and fish.
In the 70' both turrets were awash and you could see the openings for the 13 inch guns .. now only the west turret becomes exposed at very low tides or between swells ...
And I have lost at least one cast net there.
Every so often a boat piles up on here, despite having a large red buoy with flashing red light near by .. A boat hit a turret and eventually sank at the last Blue Angels Air Show July 2022
Thanks for watching Keith and sharing this great local information that helps to paint a better picture! How is the fishing there? I’ve heard it’s not the safest place to dive or be out swimming! I also read the account of the “Sea Monster” the other day as well. Also interesting to hear that she’s still sinking ships a 100 years later here! Hope you have a great week :)
@Hidden History Since the Mass holds a lot of bait its good for Spanish and King Mackerel.. and occasional cobia in the warmer months .. lots of spad fish and huge remora .. I have heard of a Jewfish hanging out there too.. some sheepshead early spring and a few mangrove snapper in the fall.
In the early summer we have an incoming tide in the morning .. and from daylight to mid morning may, June July there may be a dozen boats or more catching bait,mostly with sabiki rigs.
You are 100% correct about catching slack high tide as the prime time to dive or snorkel.. but when it's right its spectacular
@@keithdubose2150 very interesting, thanks for sharing! Best of luck on your future fishing outings!
It's a SHIP!!! Boats are small craft meant to save lives, or submarines.
Sorry to so greatly offend you James. Thanks for watching and engaging though! Have a great week!
@@HiddenHistoryYT Apology accepted! It's funny, though, the 1000' vessels that sail the Great Lakes, carrying iron ore and coal are called....boats! I really enjoyed the video on the MASSACHUSETTS! Keep up the good work!
You’re right. I think boat is doing these ships too much justice. I would go with tub.
"..40 years after the Monitor.." When you consider that......... this ship is AMAZING!
Very true! Thanks for watching :)
They are ships not boats…. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Sorry to greatly offend you Doug. Glad that’s what you took away from this video. Thanks for watching and engaging though! Have a great week :)
Just to be clear, the French Pre-dreadnoughts exist. The Carnot for instance was launched in 1897, and is worse than a ship 6 years it senior despite decades of experience.
Beautiful ships IMO 😂