The Biggest Problem with Modern Racing Games
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2023
- Marvin sees a big problem in modern racing games that brought the genre almost at a point of no return. Empty Open Worlds! But what exactly is his point? How did modern racing change, and how can we tackle this problem?
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#TheCrew #overtake #openworld #racinggames - Hry
To be honest, I think the market reflects the players. The sim racers are off playing sims, the racing enthusiasts "in betweeners" are playing gran turismo or F1 and other track based racing simcades, so only the casual "whatever" players are left playing these open world games, and they probably stop after a few months anyway. Anyway that's my bro-science reasoning.
Bro the casuals have actually ruined open word racing games
I think this is pretty much correct. Sim racers don't really need an open world racing game when something like AC exists, we can get pretty much any car we want and drive on massive free roam maps. Something like SRP would never exist in one of these games because it requires a lot of attention to detail with one goal in mind, instead of open world games which lack that detail in order to pack it with the most content.
I agree. But players do also depend on what the market puts "at the front of their faces". I would say there is a mutual influence. But for me, the one I mention is more powerful.
Idk, I feel a lot of sim racers/enthusiasts would play an open world sim racing game, but it just doesn't exist. All open world racing games are too arcadey. Which is why AC mods that add open world maps are so popular. If a game came out like The Crew that let you drive all over America, had track/street racing, and had sim racing physics like AC, then it'd be pretty popular imo. Sort of like how Microsoft Flight Sim is popular.
And Simracers that want Open World play AC with mods
We need a racing game that has progression. I want to earn my Lambo, Zonda, Porsche, etc. later in the game. There needs to be a racing game that starts us with a Honda Civic!
The good ol days of NFS. That's what made those games and Forza Horizon 2 and 3 so good. Progression and replayability. Gotta give people a reason to keep playing
Thats why i like nfs more. Forza and the crew toss out free bugattis like its candy
Nfs Rivals had an incredible progression system.
I remember how hard it was to earn my Lamborghini Veneno, Pagani Huayra, Mclaren P1 and even harder on the cop side. The game was also really fun with absolute chaos and whenever I play it, it never fails to bring a smile on my face slamming racers into walls, flipping over cop cars and absolutely wrecking your rival
Absolutely not! Some of us don't have time to "earn" digital cars in a video game. Some of us have more important shit to do IRL and just wanna chill and cruise around in a supercar
NFS unbound has a nice progression system. It's that old cliche NFS story: you get a nice car, something happens to this nice car and you lose it, then some time later you end up having to buy a shit box to start over your career and get your car back. It's the total opposite of FH5 where you start as the owner of the festival and get a bunch of supercars thrown at you
Test Drive Unlimited to me really nailed Open World racing/driving games because of the way they made their big open world maps work. The way i could best describe it is how their open world has certain "distractions" (the good kind). Like im just minding my own business going to my intended destination and then suddenly you pull up to a dealership and wonder... hm... what do they have in stock? Or passing through clothing stores, tuning/paint shops, car washes, buyable houses and many more places to stop by. It made the world less empty and the fact that if you for instance want a certain type of car or better clothing, you need to explore the map to find something that works, both games even let you start off in relatively slow cars yet it doesnt feel a chore to drive because of how much you could discover around the map from the get go, like random pedestrians asking for rides, or even car deliveries, TDU 2 even has photo spots that need certain conditions and car wrecks dotted around the map that reward a car when all wrecks are found. I love how it rewards you for just driving around
Edit: Oh to add, the housing system TDU has also kinda helps to keep the player driving around the same bit of road too many times, which is why i prefer it over having a single hub (which TDU SC is launching in the same way but promises to have houses in the future which i hope they implement) because that way ill discover many different routes from my house to the destination or even just on the way back to said house.
I never got to play TDU1 because I was a bit late to the gaming scene but I saw so many videos and gameplays on YT. As soon as I was able to I bought TDU2 and to this day its my favourite racing game of all time. I've played that game for thousands of hours. I really hope Solarcrown lives up to its older games
TDU really delivered on "distracting" the player. I would call it more like "engaging". This is the GTA Effect - the entire map is alive around you and providing you with things to engage with. The whole point of an open world is to fill the void between "missions". Instead of a Menu delivering you from one mission to the next in an instant (like Goldeneye for example), you have to instead drive to Point A to meet this person, then drive to Point B to pick up something, and then Point C to "start" the mission. But if that map you're driving around on is completely lifeless with nothing to do, as the video says it just becomes "a chore" to drive from one "mission' to the next. Like, why am I doing this can I please skip it.
You shouldn't want to skip the drive, the drive itself should be part of the fun. That's the problem with all these newer racing games - it's just a useless time-wasting chore to drive from one "mission" to the next. Like in GTA, maybe you get in an accident because lanes and traffic are tight in the city, and then you get in a fight with a pedestrian for causing the accident, and then suddenly you have 2 stars and are evading cops, engaged in a shootout and nearly dying before you even started the "mission".
GTA is great at "distracting" you in this manner. Games need to realize, if you're going to put in an open world like that to "deliver" players from mission to mission, you better make it entertaining along the way. If not, just scrap it and go back to a Menu system and focus your time on improving the other gameplay instead.
@@Kingzzman Its still a lot of fun, despite it's dated look and goofy physics
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN MODERN RACING GAMES IS HANDLING!!!!
WHY IN ALL GAMES CARS DRIVE LIKE ON ICE????
I love TDU but 2 always crashes for me, I'm gonna see if 1 does the same thing
I really wish they would remaster or remake the whole midnight club series honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had. I spent so many hours playing split screen with my neighbor and brothers, my favorite part was the power ups pulse, roar, boost, the one that reversed your opponents steering.
I don’t want Rockstar to hand out a another remaster project to Grove Street Games. Give us a new Midnight Club instead.
@@ToaGresh300 true but they could at least put up the original games for download on the game store. I wouldn’t mind playing with the old graphics I just want some way to play those games without having to buy a ps2 and the discs.
Just play the games that already exist. They're good.
@@AcroxShadow yeah but I don’t have a ps2 or the game and I don’t wanna go out of my way just to play these games. They could easily just add them to the digital store as backwards compatible so I could play them on my ps5. Not to mention the one thing I don’t miss is the ps2 control lol
They’ll remake it, but destroy it in the process, you don’t want that lol
As someone brand new to sim racing (2 weeks into it), I’m shocked there’s no open world sim racing title. I’d LOVE to have the car version of MSFS. Imagine doin a road trip from NY to Chicago. Make stops at famous places along the way. Wide range of cars, truck, etc. to drive. 3rd party marketplace for mods and hi-fidelity cities/roads/landmarks/etc. Racing is fun don’t get me wrong but I think chillin out taking in the sights of your home city is incredible.
I've been waiting for a game like this for almost two decades now. Test Drive Unlimited and The Crew are the closest we have gotten to that, and sadly both of those games are now focusing on extremely small maps that get boring extremely quick.
The closest thing to this right now is installing open world maps in Assetto Corsa on PC, which is a ton of fun.
The closest thing might be BeamNG IMO....
MSFS is different because plane companies aren't Car companies and licenses are way way different. Just as an example, if they were like car companies they'd write stuff in the contracts like "this plane can't go anywhere near a building or storm, because that may be negative to us, so you have to code them to be in a specific altitude, oh and also no air traffic or accidents". They are also way way cheaper. Wrote this above, so I'll paste it here as it's relevant but TLDR, it's near impossible for any studio to tackle that.
I've been through a couple studios where there were talks about making a racing title with actual good physics in an open world setting. You know, community driven like AC modded but with an actual game mode for it. Or even proper sim racing titles with new tech since we all wonder why are racing games so behind in tech.
But then always the same problem comes, marketing and licensing. Look at beamng, arguably the best racing game we ever had, barely anyone touches it, makes no renevue. It's not sustainable for a business, unless you have money and are doing it out of passion which isn't the case for most smaller studios that don't have to listen to publishers and whatnot, and if you're a bigger studio you're listening to them so no chance of doing a proper game either. Then how would you market that against the likes of The Crew and Horizon? You can't, especially if you take out the licenses like GTA did because if you make a game be about cars and you have no real cars, the community just doesn't care (and yes there were studios that tested this). But if you license the cars, suddenly half the crap you wanted to pull of is not possible due to contracts with car companies, most known, would be destruction and soft body physics, they just don't allow you. Not to mention you'll burned through your budget fast, and that means less RD, less development, etc. which result in less quality in the end product.
This to say, this video and comment are great, but a proper game is impossible with the restrictions imposed either by the publisher/higher ups, the car companies, or the community. That's why you don't get good racing titles. Even in simracing, iRacing is still the best title because they got lucky, older licenses and they got big enough to make demands, and even so they burned money until covid. Rally? Damn richard burns is the only option when it comes to full Rally sim. Think about that, 20 years, we haven't made a proper rally game. Dirt rally 2 was okay for a simcade, and hopefully WRC will be fun, but they are not fully sims, and they cut corners everywhere.
It pains me to say so, but from a dev perspective, racing games are a dead genre. It's all about spending tons on licenses and marketing, lying about building a ton of new tech, and then cutting costs everywhere while misleading the community so they can profit and move on. No matter what studio you're on, if you tackle the genre, that's what's expecting you, so why would any dev worth salt would accept that? We just steer away to genres where we actually have the possibility of doing something great.
With how big the sim racing community has become, and the fact that a lot of us grew up with the original NFS and Forza games, I can definitely see a market for a sim racing open world title. Sure, you won't get a portion of the market of casual console players, but you'd take the interest of every sim racer (and monopolise that market)
The fact that TDU and especially TDU2 had an open world filled with activities that weren't car related made the world more rich and alive. A barber shop, a clothing store, real estates made the world so more believable and alive, like there's people surviving in it on other means other than driving around, it gave more variety for yourself while giving at the same time an actual reason to go around.The first The Crew tried something with landmarks, but since in that game distances where huge, for me it was an actual "trying to teleport as close as possible" to the actual landmark. The worlds nowadays are just empty spaces that can look pretty but have no actual meaning. Buildings are just hard blocks you cannot interact with. Mountains, rivers, are just there. Traffic and pedestrians are just an afterthought, like there's no actual people living in this world, just ghosts wandering around aimlessly. Wanna make open world games great again? Add car dealers, shops, non-car related events, give me a reason to go around apart from racing. Don't put everything on an home screen that I can access everytime anywhere I am.
Something I've personally had an issue with, as someone that mostly dislikes multiplayer, is the live service-ification (for lack of a better word) of racing games in general. I don't mind there being competitive online content in a game, of course, but I do mind it when it clearly comes at the expense of offline content that I enjoy. It seems like even if a game does have singleplayer content like the Forza series, it constantly reminds you that the game really would prefer if you played online, and it's just off putting for me. I still stick to games from the early 2010's and even before, because there are few racing games that are compelling to me. It doesn't look like this is about to change either.
I agree, if the crew motorfest wasn't online only I would've purchased it day one. Don't get why there are still games that require an online service for single player use.
Fully agree. Video games used to be a solo hobby, if I wanted to talk to people I’d go outside. Just let me have access to all the content the game I payed for has on my own. Rockstar is the scummiest case of abandoning the singeplayer players.
Man there are so many racing games now even less older than 5 years that are totally single player. Maybe you stop being lazy and keep looking. I can't hear those lame excuses anymore.
"Boohoo, in the past everything was better. Boohoo, in the past I was a kid without responsibilities."
This is exactly how I feel. I hate the fact that we are given tons of amazing cars at the start. I want to start with a crappy car and work my way up!
This 100% after 2 hours of playing forza horizon you have 20 cars, all with the same v12 lambo engine, max upgrades etc. All cars look different but drive and handle exactly the same. It feel so useless and dead and it ruins it completely. Let us grind for it and let us enjoy the grind together with friends, that’s all I’m asking for.
That's done cause of an average player, today's kids want everything and want it now. If they don't get it, they'll move to another game pretty quick
I don't like that approach, reminds me too much of real life. I don't wanna work my way up in a game as I already need to work my way up in real life.
@@Mr.Goldbar It's an instant gratification generation thing. Maybe I'm old but I like to work for something and feel rewarded. Makes me feel like I accomplished something.
@@Horneycorn working for something, acomplishing and feeling rewarded is something I like to save for real life, I absolutely don't look for that in video games when I have that IRL.
You call it instant gratification, I call it an escape from real life's shortcomings.
Acomplishing something in a video game doesn't help paying rent or college tuition, modern life needs its methods for escape.
What we need is a open world game in the 90's, A time forgotten by the gaming industry for some reason. Focus on 1 Car, not 500 of them. At least in terms of player ownership. I hate it when I start a game and 3 mins later I have a collection of 200 cars, like how did this happen? FH5 I build my car to what I like in an hour and I was basically done. A racing game should either focus on the racing part or the car... Not all of the cars, but the one you are driving.
Im still dreaming of a comprimized Europe-openworld.
So many different styles with countries like Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland. Autobahn, Alps, Ocean. Every player gonna have his favourite part to explore and stay most of the time.
And maybe locating real Racetracks like Nurburgring where players can meet and drive Racecars. Imagine buying different houses like in tdu2 but in different countries. And Cardealeships in the countries where they belong, so u have to drive to germany for BMW etc, Italy for Abarth and so on.
The crew did a compromized American open World some years ago. So cant be that hard.
For the story take Need for Speed Carbon, there u had to choose which area u want to play next, win everything there and go on with the next by ur own choice. Wouldnt it be awesome when u start with a country, doing all storystuff there and choose the next to go?
There could be a Casino like in TDU at monaco. There could be rightlane traffic but also leftlanetraffic with a britain area. Possibilities are endless.
a comprimized Europe-openworld? well Euro Truck Simulator 2 exist
You have GTA 5 RP
@@TanggonJodiIsmana ETS2 with FH5's multiplayer system does sounds like a nice idea... 🤔
The biggest problem is that no one could give us a better experience than TDU2.
Mario Kart 9. 😂
TDU 1 😂
looking forward to solar crown. Hope they deliver.
Midnight club LA exists
@@Fylo-Kalistin my opinion it will be average. From what I've seen it's going to miss some stuff. But hopefully it will be good enough to earn them enough money to develop a second game
I really want to see a wangan style game or a touge racing games with wages, pinkslip. Or just make a game like Juice series, maybe like Pro Street or Shift in NFS series. And I want to see new ideas and new style (like Auto Modellista)
Tokyo extreme racer!
@@SlicesUSAThose games are great. Tokyo Extreme Racer 2 for the Dreamcast is still a great game and can be played on a phone (emulators like redream)
Look up Night Runners man.
@@lonestar4233 I never see that game but looking great. Thx for reccomendation
Juiced Eliminator has Pink Slips via Contact
First time seeing anyone mentioning Midtown Madness. It's one of the most fun racing games I've played, especially the Midtown Madness 2. From its crash course commentators, fun to hang around cities, and its funny car color options, those games were absolute madness.
Seriously! Midtown Madness takes me back to simpler times
im not sure if im out of touch but The Crew(s) open worlds are super fun and relaxing. I can cruise for hours. And IMO The Crew games r ab the the cruise. The racing r fun as well. it's hard for me to understand why ppl complaining ab the grind in TCM and then other ppl complaining ab no grind at all. Just my opinion. Love the contents keep em coming!
Naw i think overtake is out of touch af
Some of these takes couldn't be worse
Motorfests map is awsome idk wat this guy is talking about. He's talking about adding rpg and charecter game elements to a racing game. A racing game is about the car, the race and the drive and Motorfest does exactly wat a racing game should do. Tdu was special but say evry racing game from the past 20 years did wat tdu did then ud have ppl sick of it because its all they get. Its no different here its one thing for him to say its his opinion but to day no1 looks at Motorfests map and enjoys driving in it is just false and trying to push his annoyance with wat he dislikes on others. He needs to suck it up and realize not evry1 sees it like him.
@@Drkfire_Yt hah mate what things that TDU did are things we haven't seen in anygame ever since and not even before i must say tho now with new TDUSC i waited years but honestly it looks way worse than Motorfest i would love little bigger map for Mfest but hey atleast it's not again in states.
@julius_eemil3188 o ik it hasnt been done b4 or since but i was saying if it had become the norm instead of wat is the norm ppl woulda complained because they just cant b happy. And ye from the last thing i saw of the new td it looks worse but i also believe its going for a more realistic feel and look so its goina b a duller colour pallet then motorfest. I also think motorfest will get a map expansion at som point.
@@julius_eemil if tdu was so good then why did it take so long for it to get another installment and why did the game shut down? Why does it have mediocre reviews? It has barely any customization tdu is highly overrated if I wanted to buy a stock car and change the trim of it I would do it in real life. The driving physics in tdu are literally arcade physics so what are you even talking about? Tdu is literally just an open world arcade racing game just like every other arcade open world racing game.
Midnight club Los Angeles and need for speed most wanted gotta be the best racing games I’ve ever played. Need for speed most wanted to me seemed like it had such an innovative way to get you to tour the open world and find cars to upgrade too. Also the boss races were fun Aswell and there was always a purpose for me when playing.
Boooooring
A game ahead of its time was Street Legal Redline Racing! Open world, Cops, AI that had day and night functions, The best car mechanic OS, And soft body physics before beamNg!
I love that game. The only racing game that allows you to completely disassemble and reassemble the engine.
It was really unbalanced though, taking a cheap car, selling all unnecessary body parts like doors, windshields and seats slapping in turbo turned it into an unbeatable drag monster lol
In forza horizon 4 I find myself quite often just cruising around and taking in the scenery. I think it’s the best looking racing game to this day.
It looks much more cozy than FH5 for sure
yeah i used to actually like that map especially when itd change in all the different seasons, fh5s map is like 70% desert and the rest of its just empty, the only cool parts were the volcano and the big bridge
I agree. Im from the UK but have lived in Japan for 20 years , so driving through the open world almost makes me weep! Just wish I could go in the pub instead of trashing the garden though.
It’s a little surreal to hear people say this about that game considering how much complaining I used to hear about the game. I guess hindsight is really strong huh
@@yareyaredawacozy is definitely a great word to describe the fh4 map. And it was brilliant.
One of the crew’s biggest draw is the grand race which utilizes the entire map and with how summits work the open world activities will get usage as well
Im actually enjoying NFS Unbound alot, 150 hours in and still wanna keep playing, and a huge reason for that is because there are cars I wanna buy and build, but I havent unlocked them yet. I have a reason to play, I have a goal for my grind, I have time to use and enjoy the cars I have now to race for the cars I will enjoy in the future. Making us players work for stuff is such a great fix and is rly missing in games today. And it makes me proud of every single car I have in my garage instead of just: "O yeah I have this thing."
THANK YOU. People really don't appreciate Unbound enough, saying how they hate it by throwing around buzzwords like 'anime effects' lol wtf does that even mean, which isnt even the correct term for it. And most of the criticism don't even address what part of the gameplay they don't like. Not to mention some who do criticize the gameplay, are doing it with rose-tinted glasses as they compare it to the older games (e.g. complaining there's no 'sense of speed' as they compare B-class in Unbound with end-game cars in MW05).
I feel NFS is the only game that's not been neutered like the rest by daring to stick with an aggressive handling model thats different from the rest (I'm really tired of arcade racers driving like boats & not really differing from one another). Aside from separating campaign & online progression (and annoyance of too many cops in campaign), it does the grind pretty well. I also especially love how it addresses the problem of people only playing maxed out cars that's plaguing older NFS & most of other racing games by introducing the performance class system.
If I have to say, the devs behind recent NFS (Heat & Unbound) are really about the only ones left that dare to make a difference. Honestly the biggest problem is because they're held back by EA's suits, which have been on a wild goose chase for money all this while ignoring what great devs they have under them. I'm also sad to hear the recent news of them moving Criterion to help develop Battlefield YET AGAIN, with a news that written like how they're gonna abandon Unbound soon. EA is friggin rich, how hard is it to hire a new studio that's more fitting to help develop the BF they love so much & let their racing game developers work on NFS???
@@Don_Akane89 You're hearing what you want to hear and projecting the worst arguments to seem like your opinion is more valid. I've not heard a lot of people complaining about 'anime effects'. What they did complain about was design dissonance and inconsistencies. The anime effects were "cool" but off-base and fit about as well as a mismatched sock. You may enjoy the mismatched sock aesthetic, but that's not for everyone.
The devs said you could disable them, you couldn't. They said XYZ, and instead we got XYZ Lite.
In terms of gameplay and design, it's a downgrade in almost every respect to its nearest predecessor NFS Heat on which it is based. Also, newsflash. Heat and Unbound are NOT made by the same devs/studios, just in case you didn't know, since you're lumping them together.
The ONLY saving grace for Unbound over Heat is that it got more post-release support (which HEAT should have gotten more of, if Ghost Games didn't get canned by EA out of left field). If not for that, I'd recommend Heat over Unbound 99 times out of 100. Instead I only recommend it 90% of the time now.
@ZackydomPoy Took me about 300 hours total to complete all challenges for both solo and online before the Vol. 3 update was released. You will be busy for awhile.
@@darksunDS I gotta disagree with you on Heat being better than Unbound in every aspect.
Heat is a great game, but for me, no replayability. I complete the story, build a few cars and that's it, no reason to keep playing. Unbound has loads of replayability for the grind I just mentioned.
Then there's the handling. Heats drift handling is twitchy and frustrating, while grip handling is ok, but the cars tend to understeer like hell, then snap like hell in high speed. I much prefer Unbounded handling, where drift is easy to pick up, hard to master, grip feels good and the car will actually turn, but you still need to brake and can snap if pushed too hard.
Then u have the NOS. I hate the NOS in Heat, u pick between no power x5 or uncontrollable rocket. No in between. Unbound has 2 NOS at once that involves management and strategy, it's the most innovative NOS I ever seen in a game, it's freaking awesome.
Cops are subjective, some people prefer Heat cops, I prefer Unbound cops. Heat cops just make me rage. I have friends who quit Heat because of the cops (giving me even less reasons to go back to Heat) while Unbound cops are manageable but still challenging at Heat 5. Actually fun to evade cuz I feel slick to evade cops in Unbound rather than "find jump" tactic in Heat.
And as the other commenter pointed out, the class system is great. I get to drive a variety of cars instead of maxed out highway traffic dodgems all the time. S+ class is my least favourite class to play because the races are boring and frustrating. But that's most of the races in Heat, everyone just drives 400+ cars.
Not saying Heat was a bad game, and Unbound sure has its flaws, but to say Unbound is inferior in every way is false, I will call Unbound a better game than Heat and die on this hill.
@ZackydomPoy do you play single player or MP? Both?
Totally agree, TDU experience is umatched 15 years later, what a blow
Thats what i liked about TDU in the past, handling was decent(although road a bit bumpy). Great scenery and you needed to find dealerships for cars you want to buy. Also buying houses to place your cars in on different locations was nice.
i’ve been playing through MCLA again recently and the way they implemented the races to the world was really good, you have to talk to characters that are roaming around or drive up to a meet, also the fact that every race is important to the story and matters in some way
I hope the new test drive game is a grind like it used to be.
It wasnt really a grind, thats just nostalgia. Iirc you could make something like 100k a minute easily with a speed trap race. And given that car prices in the game reflected the irl prices, Ferraris for example cost anywhere between 100k to 1 million (or even more, cant remember the special ones). So do the math, how often you could have bought a car.
TDU 2 sure it was a little bit more grindy, thats true.
Well, on the same not e, GT is grindy, and peopleare complaining.
Are we impossible to please?
@@andipajeroking i loved the gt7 grind. I absolutely hate how easy it is to get good cars in games.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the crew motorfest its the most fun racing u have had in a while.
This is why I'm holding back from purchasing any other open-world racing game now. I know what I want; I want a modern TDU with the most realistic physics and a social experience for the sim racers and car lovers alike to come together, hang out and cruise together. Solar Crown is the game I'm waiting for that will shake things up.
Regardless im enjoying the crew motofest tgat seems to have test drive elements
You are talking about BeamNG when it releases fully sometime in the next 20 years.
TDU Solar Crown isn´t going to be very close to a sim.
You guys won't shut up about "realistic" don't you
@@qwerty975 Realistic in a way Gran Turismo does it, a simcade is good enough :)
Wreckfest is the only racing game I’ve been hooked on for a long time. I like to race clean I just really enjoy how the cars feel.
Forza Horizon 5 does have changeable seasons, the feature has just been muted, due to player contempt for Winter in Horizon 4, and the fact that Mexico is a considerably hotter location than the UK.
It's weird that people complain about it when Mexico's weather is literally a hot desert, or the rainy season. Every winter north of the border gets flooded with Mexicans anywhere there's an inch of snow. Like would people have expected Horizon 3 to also be covered in snow every other week?
It’s a good observation. Motorfest is beautiful though, I feel if they take your advice they could start fleshing out the open world with activities and bring the game to life. Updates could be the answer.
As a fan of endurance racing on open roads, wish they could do more events, even ones spanning 24 hours.
I mostly agree with you except for one thing - the issues started with Forza Horizon 2, not Forza Horizon 1. FH1 had much more in common with older titles in the genre, than its successors.
Thing is sadly. Forza motorsport is trying some of this with more grinding and slower pace for more connection with the car. And i can agree that it is abit to strict but I like the innovation and idea. But everyone is having a panic attack over it. So no wonder they don't try to change anything since everyone will freak out when they do. Sadly this half baked idea is what is making them the money and will continue to do it...
The whole panic is definitely justified and is what turns me away from the new FM game. They tried to fix something that many of us in the Forza community think is not broken, and even if they wanted to make a better progression this is indeed the wrong approach.
I do feel they betrayed a big part of the community that I'm also a part of with that move
@@Mr.Goldbar Agreed, but I’m still glad to see that they tried something instead of nothing. Forza has been stagnant since FM5, and while this change was obviously a complete flop in the eyes of most fans, I’m still happy to see the initiative taken to, at the very least, alter the experience in some way from the previous games. Though, if they really wanted this style of progression to be at the core of the game, what they should have done was incentivize the player to stick with a car through some other means, instead of outright restricting the upgrade path. I absolutely agree with the car leveling system, as it’s a nice reflection of just how much time you’ve put into a car, but maybe T10 could have associated some special events with each car that progressively become accessible as you move through the levels. A mini campaign for each car, so to speak. I might be idealistic, and I have no idea if this would require a monumental effort from the team, but I honestly can’t imagine it would be too different from the way that they seemingly slap events together and throw them out the door, nowadays.
@@djentrification1631 I remember in NFS Most Wanted 2012 each car had its own events that were shared between specific cars, I liked that mechanic. If I liked it when NFS had that with less than 100 cars I can't imagine how amazing it's gonna be in Forza with more than 700.
There are many ways to spice up gameplay that don't make the game grindy. They should've looked at how Gran Turismo 7 is so criticized and done the opposite but instead the car xp thing kinda one-ups it XD
The "Driver" series deserves some love.. And hate, as it declined miserably -ish.
But the first one is actually a game I still come back to every now and then. It still feels refreshing, the glorious, over the top chases, but rewarding. Or making you feel .. Uhm.. A driver in distress?
I've been saying this with my boys for over a decade now...
1. I really would like a open world TDU style game that is more like an MMO with regards to grinding (agree GTA is the best we got in that regard).
2. Don't throw money at us make us earn it MMO style.
3. Want to buy a hypercar, well just like in the real world, no dealership is just going to sign up anyone to get a coveted spot on the list. Many dealers require you to buy x, y and z before they will even consider you for taking that order.
4. Regarding No 3 this even goes for many super cars. Good luck walking into a Porsche dealer with cash in hand and walking out with an order for a gt3 rs without a relationship.
5. Make me fuel my car and pay for it. Make me buy new tires and pay for it. Make me pay for repairs, oil changes, engine rebuilds etc. etc etc.
6. Forza barn finds were cool but take that system a step further...require a reputation with a car shop or restorer before they will restore it for you. You could have several different shops some meh, some ok, some top of the line (gate them behind reputation and cost). Throw a time gate on the restoration, restorations take time.
7. If you read this far cheers, tons more ideas just don't want to write a book :D
One thing about TDU was there was a community unlike any other open world racer I've ever played. And that was before we talked about "communities". Over half my friends list was from TDU and you would always find groups of people doing cruises and what not. IMO TDU was hands down the best openworld racer (even though the physics were meh)...it just had something that brought you back. Imagine that with a MMO style progression. My dream game :D
Edit: I would also like to give a shoutout to NFS Underground 2...that game had a great world that kept you coming back. It just lacked the TDU emersion IMO.
As someone who probably fits the demographic for Forza Horizon, I will say the main thing that made me move on was access to arcades with racing games. Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune feels infinitely more fun with a actual setup compared to sitting at home with a controller, and I don’t play enough racing games to consider investing in a sim setup, so I just default to WMMT 5DX+
Ey, A MT5DX+ player! I played the game a handful of times since MT5 got release in the states in 2017 and trying to get a racing meter from that game but the bullshit Ai really started to piss me off and keep breaking my streak... But if you keep winning without breaking your streak it's one of the most adrenaline rush of dopamine hit that I ever experienced, "Phantom of blue" was playing at the last race of the last chapter as my body was shaking the entire time not even letting go of the wheel besides power-shifting!
TDU and TDU2 was King when it came to feel. It felt like exploring real worlds, since the world was a close copy of real places. And it also felt good to get new cars and houses. You actually build a connection to the cars/houses and appreciated buying a supercar, since it really took a while to get them. All the hidden events (like challenges to deliver cars, pick up challenges and so on), just were fun little additions. I spend hours just driving around. I can still remember getting my first Lambo in TDU, and the struggle to get the Gallardo now, or to save up more to get the Murcielago. And this was 16 Years ago... I miss those games and put a lot of hopes in Solar Crown recapturing the same feel, but SC looks just disappointing and just like any other generic racer. And despite being a car guy my whole life, I basically never buy a racing game. And if I do, they are just what you described in the Video. They are shallow and boring.
As a fan of racing games of all kinds, I agree with this assessment. I play everything from Grid, Horizon 5, Dirt, Forza Motorsports, Grand Turismo, F1, ACC, WRC etc.
When Horizon 5 came out I played it non stop for the first month, maybe 2 but i literally haven't returned to it since. It's a great game but something is missing for me, something that keeps me wanting to return. I couldn't put my finger on it. This video highlighted some of those things. Games like NFS Underground 1 & 2, Burnout Paradise, Most Wanted, Carbon had "that thing" that kept me returning to them.
Actually I personally find the Motorfest map really fun. The sound and the handling of the cars paired with the imo beautiful locations of Hawaii, great (if not Forza-like, but who cares) graphics and the many collectibles that urge you to go off the road and take a look at the more hidden places, makes this open-world really fun to explore for me 🙌
(edit: the recommendations for the devs you mentioned are on point!)
I completely agree with you, drifting along dirt roads in a rally focus whilst hunting for collectable/photo locations has been the most fun I've had in a racing game for a long time
I'd love to see police make a return in open world racers, like in fh5 they could have had a section of the map that would count as outside festival grounds where police roam. Or do it so daytime is official races and nighttime is street races with police across the map
We have NFS Heat and Unbound... both surprisingly good, in fact leagues above Forza Horizon IMO.
Then again, those may have too arcade handling for some. But for me anything more realistic than Grid would not be fun for street racing. Tried to get into street scene in Horizon 4, wasn't fun. Tho that might just be the horrendous AI.
Police are impossible for FH5 and for *all* future Horizon Games, in 2019, Microsoft made it corporate Policy that *all* future Forza games *have* to carry a PEGI 3 Age Rating.
This is problem for Police Chases as, in 2018, the PEGI changed their Ratings system to be *considerably stricter* , under the new, post 2018, Regulations, the *minimal* Age Rating for Games with Police Chases is now a PEGI 12!
As Microsoft will *not* Permit any Forza Game made after 2019 to Exceed a PEGI 3 Rating, this makes adding the Police to Horizon *impossible* !
Good, as Police Chases *RUIN* Games for Me!
NFSU2. Man... a game I've replayed so many times...
It's weird. i think the hook of most wanted and underground 2 was the scarecity in the progession system. I think especially most wanted did this really well, with the decisions of upgrading your car vs switching to the new cool blacklist car or maybe saving up for the other one you want. loved taking the little clio all the way to blacklist no.1, pumped up to be a beast :D
An excellent contester for the moment would be BeamNG in its current status, with the possibility of AI drivers as a great open-world game.
I recently played NFS Heat, and i thought for a arcade racer it was a very good open world game. Besides races and the story, there was stuff to do, and if you do those sideactivities you can unlock iconic cars from older nfs games (for example most wanted bmw, underground 2 350z, underground 1 skyline and also some other cars like gt-r nismo). You had daytime races on closed stages for money, and nighttime races with police and traffic for reputation which unlocks parts and cars. the progression felt very rewarding, starting out with older cars and working your way up until you finally reach the hypercars. And even if you still love your old cars, you can change engines and parts (also have to unlock) so they can compete even with the late game vehicles(even tho hypercars still have better handling, but it makes sense sinde their aerodynamics are different). Tuning cars was fun, and also made you think about "whats gonna be the purpose of this car". You could customize your car to be a drift car, a racing car, a offroad car or whatever. Also visual customization was really good, since you even have the opportunity, to browse through community crrated carwraps and choose the one you like, and then you could apply and save it and still change it to your likeness. Even tho I'm more into simracing games, but NFS Heat really surprised me and kept me hooked.
6 - Nail the driving physics model and freedom.
A great comparison was made on Failrace's Video on the then new NFS 2015. He compared the game to NFSU 2, from the environent to events and tunability. But he nailed one thing too, driving mechanics on NFSU 2 are simpler but yet much better and with more degrees of freedom.
That by itself increases the replayability in many degrees.
imo... open worlds all have the same basic flaw... the first 10 times you play an open world game, a lot of stuff is new, but as you go through the activities/quests/challenges, you'll start to get large chunks of the map memorised.
I find that the Crew (first and second one at least) were on the right track in terms of implementing the whole of the US and then applying what they knew from "small" open world maps to keep things interesting.
I genuinely believe that one major way to bring innovation to driving games, is to level up the map size even more... why not take the MS Flightsim approach, shove the whole planet in there (Bing/Google maps), provide/develop a robust framework for activities and races and allow modding so players can create their own, truly unique events.
Think of the fun that could be had from having a game that pretty much allows you to recreate a legendary Top Gear special, or create your own gruelingly difficult point to point race.
Basically, some studios need to figure out how to successfully/properly create a fun mix of AC (physics and modding), The Crew 2 (activities/vehicles) and Microsoft Flightsim (for sheer size of the map). Perhaps MS, EA, Ubi and Google need to have a sit-down together to hash this out :P
Forza horizon after 3 started losing features it felt like going from sims3 to sims4 you get less and everything you had is now in a dlc you don't own and the end goal isn't there
At first glance, the comparison with Sims 4 is far-fetched. But unfortunately it is true...
Racing games now lack unique identities and personality that feels genuine…this need brought back so badly.
GTA5 does it all for racing and driving. F1 racing, street racing, open world racing while cops are chasing you, racing on custom tracks throughout the city, hot wheels style tracks, demolition derby style, mario kart style racing with powerups, switching between racing on foot to cars to boats to planes, air plane racing, boat racing, test tracks, head to head racing, its endless. Plus an underground garage for car shows, or do what most people do and pick a spot to have a car show. You can get out of the car, pop the hood, doors, trunk, turn the car on and play music, or neon lights. Plus a huge map with dense traffic and of course many other things to do. It doesn't have the physics or sounds of a game like Forza or The Crew, but it does so much more than any other racing game out there.
Idk I feel like NFS Heat has a great map personally.
Grinding Heat for Cars I can sort of agree, but I feel Day sort of bores a tad bit whereas Night with cops and traffic is where the map shines, especially in tighter parts of the map in Heat 3/5 races where a few blind spots and traffic being close together as well as dodging Cops and Rhinos make it a fun time. Also finding yourself knowing the gas stations locations when you're out of repair kits or a safe house to end the night when low on health makes it more engaging to me.
@@wingedangel6030 yeah I'm mostly talking about night and the missions to unlocks cars as well as the idea to have ultimate parts on high heat races which makes interacting with the map more needed. Also the collectibles and activities that also give your cars and hidden vanity items.
Adding to it the hidden jumps/hidden locations that don't exactly have an indicator in the map, like the mall in the middle for example or the jumps in downtown.
Pretty well made if you ask me
Translated by Google:
I would very much like multiplayer racing games as a service that the open world is changing and expanding with the passing of the seasons like Fortnite does. In this way, it would give many incentives to explore the map in addition to the multiplayer games changing the way of playing such as new races, new areas, climate changes, etc.
The first crew has dealerships, whe i didnt find it bothersome, some people found it was a pain to have to travel to a specific dealership just to buy a certain car.
I want a game that has things for me to find in the open world. I want to explore and interact with the world.
It’s so simple and it’s the fact that gaming has changed from arcade type games to over saturated open world games. Racing games literally defined this arcade style and unless you can go from one country to another in a car game it won’t be up to par with other type games
Midnight Club LA was amazing. Favorite all-time racing game
I see that the best modern open world racer is forza horizon 3
. Barn finds are a great incentive to explore
. Starter cars are not super cars
. Head to head races are fun
. The map is very fun to explore
. No need for online play
Oh come on, this is such a garbage made up list.
" Starter cars are not super cars"
Nissan Silvia, Shelby GT350, Holden Maloo (or whatever its full name is)
now compare that to FH4
Audi TTS, Dodge Charger '69, Ford Focus RS
"Barn finds are a great incentive to explore "
FH4 and FH5 has literally the same concept when it comes to barn finds. Has it not?
"The map is very fun to explore"
It is one of the flattest map in horizon history. FH4 had very colorful seasons, whereas FH5 has more diversity and a mountain road. (and dont forget about the rally dlc)
Your favourite might be FH3, but just as many people like other horizon maps.
The biggest point is that most games dont use their map anymore. They hide all things behind a menu and thats so boring and uncreative. And all games try to be another horizon but actually they should try to be something different. And also its sad that maps are still so small after both tdu's and the crew 1 and 2. I get that they can create a more detailed map but it gets so boring seeing the same parts of the map so often. Its just a shame that no game after TDU tried to be so innovative and it looks like they are doing the same as the others with TDU SC with a small map and all homes and other interactive stuff are in this one building
This is why I believe the new Forza Motorsport is doing good with its upgrade system. You cannot upgrade your car simply by paying for it but you have to race it and use it. I know there are some drawbacks that may annoy some, but I really like the Career mode and the progression system there.
I also have played the last 3 Horizon series, and I gotta say, except for 5 or 6 really nice places to drive through, there is that emptiness and a city or a dense area missing. I don't like the way the Mexico city was made.
I personally have fun with Motorfest. I also like just driving around.
With FH5 I have to force myself to do the weekly stuff to get the new cars.
Do you think the leveling system in the new Motorsport would have been better for the horizon series?
Totally totally agree with this video. I miss the games like TDU2 where I could just drive around and enjoy the map. The first Crew almost had that but there was hardly anything to see on that map - admittedly I happily drove from West to East of that map and I enjoyed every bit of it. We need a slower paced game but I feel that the modern day ADHD audience don't like those games in the masses. The new Test Drive was criticised by a racing game CZcamsr for being "too realistic" and not "arcadey enough", which is just really sad to hear.
then i hear people saying the opposite it to arcadey
There needs to be some sort of catch-all game for racing, something modular enough to have completely different physics for different game types and modes, but have each of those types and modes detailed in a way where it could be their own standalone games. And of course, some sort of persistent profile or career between them.
Like someone else in the comments said, the main thing is that most racing titles are niche, made for their own audiences brand of physics and game mechanics. Trying to reach a wider audience means taking those niche elements and combining them into one game, though with separate modes. And that just isnt finacially feasible, we would need some sort of indie dev to get the ball rolling before more interest would attract a bigger team of varied devs to handle the different game types.
You said Horzion 5 doesn’t have season changes? It does lol. It’s Mexico, no snow brother. And yet it still adds a bit more snow during winter.
i feel like nfs 2015 did the open world exploration really well. I knew every nook and cranny of that map because there were so many iconic locations and roads. I think the reason is because there was no offroading, the whole time in that game you were on the roads. It was essentially 1 big track so you got to know it really well
I really enjoy The Crew Motorfest, much more than Horizon, simply because it doesn't give you a bazillion hypercars after a wheelspin. You do obtain some powerful cars after the biggest playlists, sure, but if you want to build your car collection and have different playstyles, you need to play for more than a few hours. And I really think each playlist managed to implement a great vibe to the open world we're racing in, but I'm a bit disappointed that they don't appear in free roam.
However, I do think the sense of exploration should have been more used for collectables. Once you complete a playlist, a bunch of collectables appear on the map and the way to find them is just to follow dots on the mini-map. If they did work like the treasure system, it would have been more tedious but there would have been more incentive to explore. Same for the mini challenges, they're pointed right when you launch the playlist, there's nothing hidden.
I have 50+ hours with Motorfest and I still enjoy it, even though the grind to get the best parts is becoming tedious, but Grand Races and Demolition Royale is great fun, and the weekly Summit challenges definitely gives longevity.
I really do think Motorfest did some stuff better than Forza Horizon (for gameplay variety and progression) and NFS Unbound (mostly for the online game mode). I also had a good fun with 2K Drive, but its online mode was barebones af.
My biggest issue for sure is progression.
No, I don't want to be thrown in a damn hyper-car instantly and given cars left and right for no reason. Racing games these days feel so unrewarding and does not give me any strives to work for anything.
I'm hopeful for the new TDU, but I'll contain my excitement for now so I don't get disappointed again.
Forza Horizon is horrible for that. The last one I bought was Horizon 3 and I barely touched any of the actual races, yet my garage would make Jay Leno envious. All I've ever really done in that game is just cruise around aimlessly for something to do while listening to music or podcasts, occasionally challenging an AI driver to race.
Yet practically every few minutes I'll level up again, get another free car thrown at me, or a barn find, or another hundred grand just materialises out of thin air. The laughable thing is you actually earn more XP by driving badly... It gives you no incentive to actually get good at the game.
Open world games in general outside of GTA and RDR have had this problem where they create this big map and put nothing on it. They saw the success of GTA V and decided that a big map and good graphics is all they need. When, unlike GTA V, they do not add the little details and nuance that makes the maps of those games so good. I recently replayed GTA IV and it’s DLCs and had more fun driving around on those than FH5, even if the driving physics are wonky. Test Drive Unlimited 2 is by far my favorite open world racing games. All of the stores, dealerships, racing schools and side activities added so much to the two massive maps. You also had to earn your way to the super cars.
There were alot of us who were heavily influenced by ps2 era games.
I for one want to see more like nfs most wanted opne world racing game, with simcade physics.
But i want a story and dirt to daytona progression style.
You start out racing in the streets in entry level cars. With virtually no money only earning it by winning bets and completing delivery jobs
You get noticed by a professsional and recruited into amateur race disciplines.
Like autocross and time attack
And when you place well you earn better money than the street racing. you can unlock more demanding disciplines like circuit racing and rally.
After you win a few times you can enter professional events. And you have to start managing your money for more than just your car. You have a pit crew/co driver you need to employ and pay in order to compete with.
It would be incredibly engaging and exciting to be able to have that freedon to decide how you want to play. And each choice you make effects your story differently.
Like a full on car based rpg.
Online mode can have hoppers for each dicipline and car teir(aka entry level , sports or pro teir.)
It sounds like a pipe dream but tbh i feel like its the only next step there can possibly go for next gen racing games lest it continues down this path of mediocrity.
My dream would be a real world open world, in the way of the last simulator but on the ground... and proper sim physic engine
Dare to Dream!
So beamng
AC/BeamNG-levels of Physics + Super great customization + Well-made openworld
One can only dream....
The most egregious thing I find in modern racing games is the tendency to show long unskippable ads for various DLC packs, not to mention ridiculous AI that can somehow take hairpin turns at 200mph without losing control while your car spins out and ends up embedded in a wall if you try to take the same corner at anything other than a snail's pace.
The last good open world racing game I play must be need for speed heat, that game was a good combo of forza and NFS underground it gives you that taste of what a fast car feels like then they start you off with a car that struggles to reach 100 mph
If you want real open world, there are drivable cars in MSFS2020.
since when? and besides the actual ground map of msfs is too rough to interact with other than airports and airstrips.
Need for speed hot pursuit 2 had that one map where it had two fire fighter trucks putting out a fire, I thought hmm what if forza put stuff like that on the map like fires, emergency units responding to emergencies or sometimes heards of animals crossing the steets or road blocks to make the map look more alive and put a lot people walking around add more events.
I played NFS Payback recently (Don't judge) and one thing I really loved about it was the "Derelicts". Finding parts of cars scattered throughout the world with a picture for you as a clue on where it is. That was fun....while it lasted.
Idk if other games have done this though because all I've been playing are the old OGs. (Yes I still play Midtown Madness 1 & 2)
The first fully 3D open world racing game that I'm aware of is Vette by Spectrum Holobyte released on PC and other home computer formats way back in 1989 and it was followed by Test Drive III: The Passion in 1990. Vette was essentially Midtown Madness a whole decade before Midtown Madness, letting you drive anywhere in a few sections of San Francisco.
My biggest problem with modern racing games is always-online DRM for single-player career mode. I have no interest in competitive online gaming so I refuse to buy any racing game that forces me online unnecessarily considering that I actually like to be able to still play games after whenever it is that the server shuts down, even if it's a game in a series whose previous titles I own such as Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsport, or Test Drive Unlimited.
You've summed up very well how I feel about modern arcade racers. Most games simply lack personality. There is no rewarding and motivating structure.
Do you guys remember Midnight Club 2? Great game, cheesy but so much personality, challenging tracks, but very creative at the same time, very fast but controlable. There was no neef for real license cars, no need for costumisation.
This was a great video, I agree with most of your points. However, you forgot one game: The Crew 2. You mentioned The Crew 1, The Crew Motorfest, but not The Crew 2. I would've liked to hear what that game contributed to open-world racing games.
What ticks me is how getting powerful cars is easy to get not much customization at all
I agree with all points with the exception of one, the getting rid of/not forcing open worlds. I don't think it would work in the current scene of car culture because most will want to cruise around with friends, drift wherever they want, take photos whenever and wherever, and a few other reasons.
Arcade track racers are dead and I think it's because they don't have an open world. GRID and DIRT have great original and real tracks to drive around but the games are mostly forgotten and I don't think it's because of the physics being a bit wonky or because some features are buggy or missing from previous titles.
While I personally love arcade track racers and don't mind games without an open world, I don't think the majority of people will appreciate that.
Loved the ideas though, keep them coming!
Nah they are still good. Open worlds SUCK.
At this point I'm only hyped about Nightrunners. Last time I've enjoyed and lost myself driving in an open world game was in Cyberpunk 2077, and that's ain't even a racing game.
I remember playing a lot of NFS, and test drive, but my favorite open world driver in its peak was LA Rush. Big world, really pushing the boundaries of the PS2 at the time
The biggest problem with modern racing games for me is good steering wheel support. I love all kind of racing games from pure arcade to sim racing games (NFS, Forza Horizon, Grid, GT7, F1, AC, ACC, Dirt Rally). I've spend a lot of time in the arcade in the 90s with games like Daytona USA, Ridge Racer, Outrun, Sega Rally, etc with a steering wheel. I don't know why people nowadays always think that Steering wheel are only important for sim racing games. I'm so much better (faster) with a gamepad controller then a steering wheel for a game like Horizon 5. However, I find it much more fun & immersive with a steering wheel. Wish it was better implemented. Hopefully, all racing games release in the future will have steering wheel support with proper Force feedback.
Road Trip adventure was a really good open world game, it was on PS2 the world was massive & you had loads to do, I remember when playing golf, the car what ran the golf course was a VW Golf if that make sense 🤣🤣 ( the cars used to talk & have personalities) it was a really good game.
Test drive unlimited 1 was really fun, I remember playing the demo for hours then I finally got the game, i just hope solar crown gives the same vibes, it’s looking promising though.
That's exactly what I didn't like in Horizon 4 they just overwhelm you with cars, and I hate the upgrade system. Make me work through tiers of upgrades instead of showering me with money and then I can just engine swap and max out any car right off the bat. I didn't buy 5 because of this cause I just find it boring. I want to work and progress to faster cars.
Well it’s a game lol 😂 .. all I heard was the games don’t have what I want
I want a racing game where the actors aren't constantly kissing your butt in dialogue
The problem with these games is that they want to funnel all the players into the same main career game mode for comercial reasons.
The issue is, that the 2 main player types that buy these games are looking for radically different experiences. a casual player (of which there are millions) is the one that wants to fulfill the hyper real fantasy of driving the exotic lambo through that visually incredible open world. He paid for the game (for the experience, for the car models for the car sounds, for the world to be designed) and he is in no mood to grind to get to the good stuff.
Then there are the players that are coming from the perspective of the hardcore racing game player (which is the video maker's perspective here) they want all this progression depth, and things to do, and for rewards to feel meaning-full.
Games like Forza Horizon can try all they want, but these 2 player persona needs and wants are reconcilable.
For me the answer is pretty simple, these games need a hardcore mode with all the progression unlocks etc. And it needs a free-roam or arcade mode for the casuals with everything unlocked, or easier to unlock.
When you realize this you also realize why the developers do not do it. Their goal is to sell DLC and microtransactions. They need to base the entire design around this. It just turns out that the casuals are usually the ones more willing to pay IRL money to progress through the bullshit, and the younger hard core player is the one that is looking for the grind.
Turns out this design can fool people for a couple of console generations, but in the end it has led to both groups of players being jaded and dissatisfied.
I only got into racing games 2 months ago started with forza 4 and i love it but it is horrible how you have to wait 5 mins to find a team for a seasonal challenge and just end up way outclassed in skill or just get a team that sabotages or quits randomly i want the 80% but i dont want to do online stuff i would much rather a hard race with ai cars
I hate the always online requirement in many racing games nowadays. I have Crew Motorfest, Gran Turismo 7, Etc, but the always online is something i put up with, rather than enjoy
The Midnight Club open world was very interactve with pedestrians, landmarks, and heavy traffic. Aside from TDU we never really saw anything like that ever again.
I see where youre coming from, but just dont think youre the target demo for games like horizon. Its for more casual gamers who want to drive super fast cool cars, and not be forced to climb their way through a ladder of econobox races to do so. I also have to imagine that turn10 isnt just guessing what players want, but has tons of market research and data showing the product they are making is what most players want.
Great video! Totally agree with this.
Where is the creativity of developers? The inovation? On the other side, don't take out the things that always worked and were loved by players because "we had to modernize the game" or "make it appeal to a wider audience". Take risks and do your own thing and let the racinggame community evolve again. It has been stuck for years at the same point.
Don't get me wrong, TCM has made good progress over their previous game, and unbound was the better game out of the recent modern nfs games, and FH has amazing graphics, but we're missing the true open world car game where you can drive for hours without getting bored Where you discover new interesting places, look forward to be able to buy a car youve been dreaming of and been saving up for, having cardealers, clothesshops, paint/sticker shops around the map, where you can meet new people in a social environment with actual text chat to speak to eachother instead of pre chosen messages which make the game feel less alive or real. I met amazing people in games like TDU. We went for cruises for years without being bored and even return to this game nowadays. Lisa to lisa dinner cruises, lighthouse to lighthouse cruise, just cruising around and find other people cruising around obbeying the traffic laws, discover hidden things or roads, make friends and cruise together😇
Fh3 was the last game turn 10 cared about, since then it's just been new paint (map) and recycled engine sounds
hope TDU SC can deliver it again
From the title, I thought he was gonna talk about the other things wrong with racing games. But a non-interactive map is just as bad. Considering you can't freely exit your vehicles, it only makes more sense.
One note: Saying FH5 doesn't have changing seasons like FH4? Objectively incorrect. Mexico's seasons are just vastly different than England's, considering it's a subtropical nation. The biggest problem with FH5 is the map, which was designed around the Eliminator game mode that very few people actually play. Maybe in their next game, they can make the Eliminator take place on a separate map instead of ruining the base game map.
I'm playing NFS unbound and it's kicking my ass,lol I haven't felt this way about grinding in a good way since I played Tokyo Xtreme racer 2 on the Dreamcast
Forza Horizon 2 was seriously the best Horizon game. Italy and parts of France was an absolutely beautiful location to cruise around in, listening to Hospital Records.
I want a nfsu2 style story with constantly grinding different underground racing circuits, I want the car customization of horizon, I want large multiplayer lobbies with proximity chat, I want large parking lots for meets and the ability to call out other players for bets with credits and cars and I want it all based in a map that’s a hybrid of tokyo with a mountain on the outer edge of it for touge and drifting. I’d spend 100$+ for a game like that
wouldn't having modern nfs car customization be better than forza, unless your talking about performance, but nfs has visual car customization down alot better
@@Hiiro_RL probably talking about performance upgrade and tuning. However while dumbed down, I may give NFS a slight edge there too. Unbound's tier's and PI while not perfect, seemed substantially less exploitable than Horizon. But polish up the PI calc, make tunes also part of it, not just parts, and Forza wins performance customization no conest. Still, they are different enough that both have their validity in their own lane.
this might be somewhat stupid of me to say but the best open world DRIVING game that has come out in recent times is actually ETS2/ATS. Both of these games have EVERYTHING you're talking about and more!
One thing I do disagree with is the thing with the game pace.
Some people have jobs, some people go to college (myself included), some people don't have the time for psuedo meaningful "progression" and just wanna chill with cool cars.
We are the silent majority of people who pick up a game and just play, those who look for the functionality and don't wanna get stuck because of "progression", as we already get meaning from real life.
All grind is bad, no ifs or buts, real life is a grind anyway so why should a video game be a grind aswell? shouldn't video games be an escape from real life rather than be the purpose of real life?
I'd go even further and say the pace in games needs to be even faster.
i would add another thing, make the maps interesting, that makes you want to explore, but nowadays the maps seem like they are AI generated, they are just generic and bland
I normally love racing games but I have been getting bored of them and none have caught my attention. I thought it was just me but this video shows it isn't just me