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Is it worth $600 to upgrade your Turbo Housing? | Rob Dahm
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2018
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Using the GTX4202R we see how the exhaust housings affect response and flow. Consider me surprised.
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Idk if I get the upgrade can I get a ride in the 4 rotor?
I’ll even help push after...
Jesus Christ...
Mega oof
Put anti seize on the stainless steel threads. Put the nut on it and use a cordless impact and run the nut up and down on the threads. It will help the stainless steel threads from galling
Why not a $20 turbo for the Insight from Walmart?
Wait til you see what I have coming haha you will love it 😈
i hope its a junkyard ecoboost turbo
Cummins swap?
I can dig that
eBay turbo
Appricate the video Rob. Like you said, not a lot will appreciate it, but on things where there's not a lot of information. Every little bit helps you improve your builds and knowledge.
Thanks for making this video man, love the technical nitty gritty shit :D Surprises me the boost response was not affected!
Me too. But it really shows the turbine wheel diameter is the choke point at this point. I thought there would be a trade off.
I think the 1.44 was identical to the 1.28 response because the 1.44 was a true twin scroll and although larger, ultimately evened out the pro and con.
Im gonna just get a dollar shave club subscription just because they support the car scene and i feel like thats rare from non car companies
The rust is simply due to heat. Rust is a chemical reaction. What makes chemical reactions happen more quickly and vigorously? Heat. Simply put, the heat the turbo generates means even the moisture in the air is more than enough for the housing to rust in short order.
J D This and the blanket also holds moisture.
With the fire outros as always xD
TriniRogue it's like he does it on purpose just to fuck with us. Damn it Rob!
Heat will rust 316 stainless let alone cast iron
They make high heat paint for things like that , if it bothers you enough . Fact is a little of rust won't hurt anything . You could clean up a 30 year old turbo and things like the housing will be just fine , just bearings and such would need replacing . If the car was always used , a 30 year old turbo would still work almost like new without rebuilding it .
Or better yet, ceramic coating
Today Mr oil burner, is going to explain why you should upgrade from a cardboard home to a homeless shelter.
am i the only one who likes the 3 rotor more?
lol the 3 rotor actually exists
that advertising in the beginning though made me dying... xD
“Logging exhaust back pressure and boost”
More like roll race simulator.
Thanks for posting this video Rob. Loved every second of it, but make more of them and please! You can get as technical as you want
everything with threads in stainless must to be lubed before assembly/dissasembly, otherwise it looks like your v-band there
*But* is it better than the *Turbo Slice* ?
I have my opinions. Lol turbo slice was what the world needed but didn’t deserve 😂
Your left eye always blinks before the right one.
Wtf. I’m going to look back at all my footage. I have a couple annoying habits but that one will have me gouging my left eye out 😂
Shit sorry man probably just my laggy internet
fantastic video. not sure if anyone is appreciating the back to back log of backpressure difference from a hotside swap. i also experienced the same dyno curve after going from 1.01 to 1.44 hotside with absolutely no difference in spool with 20b. weird! is the only word i can think of. did you by any chance log the exhaust temperature during both events? would you be able to post them as well? i suspect EGT also fell with the lower backpressure. thanks.
The rust is caused by the turbo blanket trapping moisture around the turbo when the car is not running.
Love you rob dahm
Damn bro, it's hard to believe that a rotary can even spin that huge turbo with a 1.28 A/R exhaust housing, let alone a 1.44 A/R. The Wankel rotary engine never fails to amaze me.
I went to a 1.06 a/r for my gt35r because I couldn’t got an externally wastegated bottom mount setup in my m50 build. I had the options of .65, .85, and 1.06. I went 1.06 and I can’t wait to have stupid high end power.
Of all the youtubers I have never seen a better advertising for dollar shave club.lool
Is it worth pushing for too much more power with the weak rotor right now? Or are you gonna do a video putting fresh seals in and seeing what that changes, maybe it'll pick up a little more with less leaking
Best dollar shave commercial ever !! Lol
Thank you sooo much 🎉🎉
You can see where the exhaust housing was touched by your hands during installation. The oil from your hands plus heat accelerated the corrosion process. Notice the lower part of the housing near the vband has no rust. It wasn’t touched as much as the top. But no worries it’s only surface corrosion and would take 100 years to eat through the housing.
This was an interesting video, really learned a bit about tubors. I just bought a 1999 Saab 9-3 Turbo, so it's cool to know how these work.
Whichever one you don't use, could I "borrow" for my diesel Saturn?
Ah Rob, to see how far you've come since then haha. (Love from the future)
I believe the exhaust housing side of the turbo rusted so quickly because of that turbo blanket. Not 100% sure though, just a thought.
So where's the follow up dyno comparison with the extra boost?
I have a 696 horsepower 1996 rx7 in France now I live in Florida. it is 2300lbs and that’s insane and I have never driven it because I’m 10 and my stepdad said he will let me drive it when I get a racing career.
And I has a b20 engine just like yours rob
Currently deciding between different size turbo hot sides. So the timing is perfect, but that damn ad read was incredible haha
If you got a stainless bolt and a stainless nut they'll gall up especially at high-temperature exposure like an exhaust. Copper-based or nickel based (e.g. Jet-Lube) will minimize that risk later on.
Rob Dahm putting the science back in HP
It’s so much money to spend. I figured if I was going to do it I would document it and help others figure out if it is worth it. Juggling housings and turbine sizes is a game for wealthy people. I don’t have that sort of money to spend and I hope my findings help my viewers avoid the same expenses
Rob Dahm its great that you do this especially with actual numbers. Like you say its a costly exercise where most of us can't afford.
But you can afford it, prioritize. While Rob wants to see if this made a difference and it has, this is a real problem for Ecoboost engines partially Focus ST owners who are obsessed with not losing the quick spool and torque of the tiny K03 turbo but want more mid range and top end horsepower. They typically buy GTX28xx turbos with .64 internal housings. These things are for engines under 2.0L in reality, even the original GT2860 "Disco Potato" was .86 A/R GT25. Noted tuner Nishan believes as I do that some engines are being damaged because of too much back pressure especially when the boost is cranked up into the mid 20's to high 20's. Since almost NOBODY measures back pressure to know and they do automatic things like delete the converter without understanding why that needs to be done is why the ST community is where it is, full of newbies and those without any experience with turbochargers giving advice to others who are equally ignorant. Then they want to giggle at me when I put a GTX3071 on my car and they think it's a laggy mess when they have never driven an ST with a turbo larger than GTX28xx. I am going to start logging back pressure as well, because I think to go over 450 hp safely on the stock engines I must upgrade exhaust housings and go external wastage to potentially free up some additional exhaust flow. Somebody upgraded to external on a GTX2868 and picked up 30 hp/30 ft of torque with no changes, so I know there's too much back pressure with the smallest housing for the ATP kits. But even the BW EFR 7163 uses a GT25 turbine housing.
Luckily for me the GTX30 turbos are T3 .63 A/R which is what I have. It outflows the .86 A/R GT25 housing by quite a bit.
Ooooooh, I'm so glad you got sponsorship!
I see a huge difference in inlet size!!
Stainless steel will friction weld itself. Seen it all the time. Ceramic paste has to be used on threads.
Back pressure isnt always bad. You need some. Its what drives your turbine but what can also choke your motor. Drive pressure should be 1:1 but rarely is. Theres always going to be compromises , loses and gains in A/R housings. Some worse than others depending on how radical your changes is.
That has probably been the best ad promo I've ever seen
I bought the right housign for my applicationn and Im a happy boy.
1:03 I gotta admit, I like the display set-up.
Really sick video rob. I’d love to eventually learn how all that information is wired up and logged.
It’s sounds so good and looks like it’s performing excellently, awesome job
The rust comes from your turbo blanket because it absorbs moisture when it cools down that’s why some people ceramic coat headers
i'm pretty sure i remember that on garrett's website, they said exhaust housing ar has little to no known effect on the performance of the turbo, whereas the intake AR certainly does.
In real life it matters.
Ok so turbo housings are cast iron coated in a light oil to keep it from rusting, you heat it up once the oil burns off and the hot cast iron pulls water out of the air and rusts almost instantaneously, it’s pretty typical. What i would have done is got a tial stainless steel housing.
Cerakote...
Anthony Thomas that works too but for rotaries that can’t run a twin scroll because 3 doesn’t divide by 2 well. The big v band housings tial make will flow better, weigh less then the same a/r standard housing and not that it really matters, but it will stay clean looking. Cerakote especially if you do the whole exhaust makes a turbine act smaller than it is because it keeps that much more heat in. Great for response, bad for the big end.
They make ceramic paints for exhaust headers, i would think that could take the heat and prevent rust.
That's Kool.
I have a 1.32 housing
Was told to move to a 1.45 housing.
I am running a SXE476 pushing 48 psi.
I want to get the SXE S480 with the 1.45 housing.
I am running a 12.7 Detroit
How do u log that info.
What sensors are you running or should I get.
Thanks. Turbo sounds sick
Ever Dyno to see the power differences between them? Not a lot of definitive differences out there to verify or confirm if these housing swaps actually “do” something
That's what we want to hear!! More Boost!!!!
The rust is part of the protective coating for the system. As it cures when the turbo heats up it builds an oxide layer. This layer is designed to not penetrate deep into the metal and prevents further major rust issues in the future. This is used because there really aren't many other cost effective coatings that can withstand the heat and expansion that a turbine housing experiences.
Ive been wondering about this.
That dollar shave club ad though. Lol shit was genius with the turbo in the shot. Great vid man
I love the techy vids you do, keep em coming!
3 rotor sounds very tasty my gawd 🔥
6:27 Only Abel is Abel to figure out the solutions 😂
The rust is where the heat has baked the cast dry and then it rusts. Look at the pattern of the rust
Excellent data 👌👌
Also high heat promotes oxidation which is why the rust happened so quickly.
i like hearing how everyone implements the dsc script into their content
BeatJumper 👽 gives ya something to complain about, consider it a favor..
I wanna know more about Abel’s pigeons
now I found this video on garret advance motion website, it's talking about the compressor side AR, and you are talking about the turbine side AR, another friend of mine also told about turbine side AR, but most turbos put the compressor side AR, what is what sir?
So the maps are about the compressor side and they reference ar but no one messes with that on compressor side. Only turbine side do you mess with it with various exhaust housings.
@@RobDahm thanks for the reply, just researching on a turbo that would best fit to my M52 bmw engine, it's 2.5 liter, so I should be looking at turbine side or compressor side AR sir?
nice video rob
Do you feel silky smooth though? SO SMOOTH
Short answer, yes it is worth it if, you don't get the right one off the bat.
Having back pressure on mine right now, hoping upgrading from .96ar to a 1.38 or higher would work. anything over 20psi, which is 1k to the tire, I have major backpressure issues
How did it work out?
Rob Dahm shaved = Tom from “Tom’s Turbo Garage”... who knew!
Update ob the r32 rob?
It looks like you have more exhaust pressure than boost pressure on both. The colors changed on the logs. EMAP is always higher than IMAP. I think Abel was right and the swap was useless for you.
On this day, April 20th, 2018, after 34 years Rob Dahms balls finally came in.
ROB are you using a megasquirt?
I noticed right away the first 1/4 of bigger housing
Definite difference.
Try Ceramic Coating the exhaust housing...
Should anyone tell him about anti-seize?
You could have blabbered on for 10 minutes, you instead chose to fill it with 10 minutes of content. Interesting Rob
does that turbo turbine come with the $5 shave club pack?
So when does the video about the cheap subs on amazon come out???
You gonna get aluminium door handles ?? If you do give us a close up later on so I know to bother ordering them or not
Heat + oxygen (from air) = rust period (unless you can seal the metal completely, which isnt easy with that high temp)
hey Rob! would u mind sharing your thoughts about a t62 with . 82ar? stock ports 13brew. 14 psi max. turbonetics.
Gonna buy a shaving kit even bough I have no facial hair. Just trying to help the 4 rotor
Definitely worth it bro so sick so good so awesome wow so good so sick so awesome wow wow wow omg
Soooo... you bringing this St Louis for our charity races at Hollywood Casino St Louis, this Sunday?
Or will you be driving our car? 😁
Seriously. Mr Dahm.
Come drive with us this Sunday.
I’ll pay for the damn plane ticket if needs be.
Well I don’t shave and good video, also can u tell what’s the status of Abel Mazda r2
Last time I saw Rob Dahm clean shaven was on the bachelorette 😂
Hey Rob, are you measuring back pressure before or after the exhaust turbine? im assuming its between the exhaust port and the turbo, so higher back pressure is a good thing. I'm just used to hearing back pressure as a bad thing that you want as little of as possible lol
Before exhaust turbine. You don’t want it to be higher than boost pressure if possible. That will force air from the exhaust into the next rotary combustion chamber. Abel cut it off at 10psi over boost. So if I’m running 25psi boost the exhaust is 35psi. Bas
Definitely see the difference in size :)
Niceeeeeee !!!! I have a Miata 12@ rotary 400hp 6$peed😉😉🇵🇷🏁 ,,I love ur 4 rotor and 20b
nice shave
Slightly thicker at the inlet.
The heat degresses the parts.
love this video.
Megalog Viewer FTW Rob!👍👌
Bigger housing, less back pressure, more power, less heat, slower spool. Vise Versa for smaller housing.
I noticed a lot of car channels lately being sponsored by dollar shave club. You and Rob and I forget who else right now. It would be in your best interest to talk to each other and compare numbers to make sure nobody is getting the short end of the stick.
I know its against social norms to talk about those things in the US generally, all I have to say is that is an unhealthy norm in most cases. It allows for great unfairness to never be known and is great for exploitative enterprises. Not that I'm saying dollar shave club is an exploiter I'm sure they're fine, this just got a little off topic.
Also I am happy to see these short product placements in these videos because I know that youtube cut off a lot of ad revenue and that now these channels wouldn't really be possible without some sort of sponsorship. This is the way it should be though, just one small ad for an entire good full length piece of content. It's nothing like cable TV where its just this constant barrage of ad after ad after ad that just makes you want to smash the TV. I had a friend visit from France who said that they were surprised there were so many ads on TV, they said over there they just have one ad at the end of every show. And that's how this video is and I think it's a great balance, just one small ad for one large piece of content. And it doesn't have the volume blasting and all these annoying sounds and all those tactics that they use on TV ads that just really make you want to never watch TV again.
The reason youtubers started getting a lot less ad revenue is because the big media companies didn't like the fact that these guys with cell phones were making more money and getting more views off of their own content than the big AAA studios could produce with millions of dollars. So they wanted to cut them down to size a little bit so they could try to take some of the market back. And it worked, lots of channels died when they took away all of the revenue. It's perfectly fine to get sponsored to keep your channel going and I think it actually can be a very good thing because you can pick and choose your own sponsors that you feel do a good job representing the spirit of your channel, and you can decline the ones that have unreasonable requests or seem like bad companies to you and this way you can help to make the market a better place.
The extreme heat increases the rate of oxidization meaning the rusting process, perfectly normal
where we pushing it ?
Yes.