Grounding and Bonding Redux (
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2020
- I gave a presentation today to members of the California-wide repeater system papasys.net. Here I narrate those same charts just for you! Note, also see my original video on Grounding and Bonding, Ask Dave #8 (from 2015), which you can find here: • Station Grounding for ... .
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Hallo Dave. Thank you for inspiring so many hams. Don't know if you remember but I'm the 15 year old from South Africa that was about to get my license. I finally got it on 4 September, on my 16th birthday. I got my class A (full) license and got an A for regulations and an A for technical. Once again, thank you for all your helpful videos. We learn much from it!
Congrats, well done !
Johan, congratulations! Welcome to the worldwide fraternity of ham radio!
So happy to see daily uploads from you again! You’re inspiring a whole new generation of hams Dave, 73!
Been binge viewing Mr. Casler as I've found his videos interesting and informative. Thank you for your wonderful contributions to Amateur Radio.
Thanks Dave! Very helpful and as usual a great video. It's given me several things to do in my shack. Be well OM.
Thanks for the photo of the arresters mounted to the ground rod. I’ve seen lots of diagrams showing the general arrangement, but didn’t know how to actually mount the arrester.
Really like seeing your videos. You are a great resource to all hams. Keep it up.
Dave -- thanks for speaking at the PAPA meeting on Saturday. Very informative, even for this old ham -- first licensed in 1966. 73's WD6FIE
an 8 foot length of 1/2 or 3/4" copper water pipe makes an excellent ground rod. Add a suitable threaded water hose male connector on one end, attach a garden hose with a pressuized water source and you have a 'water drill' for easy insertion in most ground conditions...
Very nice video Dave. I've reviewed those extensive grounding procedures like the Motorola one but didn't see this aspect may have missed it. I once was in the shack of a dedicated 911 tower. Every compression couplings' had a jumper. All the EMT conduit layouts of which there were many! Had been very neatly drilled and tapped to accommodate a green w/yellow stripe 10 or 12 AWG jumper crimped with ring lugs across every connection in all the EMTs there were probably 100's. Very Neatly Done as already mentioned, What a piece of work.
Good stuff as always coming from Mr. Casler!
Thanks Dave! I have been trying to figure out how to properly ground my antenna and system that I am getting ready to put together. I live in a very lightning prone area and want to do it right. This was a great help! I throughly enjoy your videos and look forward to them each day! 73 - KM4OCJ
I run my shack on the second floor...I am willing to spend whatever to get the shack grounded the right way.You have great information...Thank you
Grounding my tower with just one 4 foot copper rod and another one 4 foot copper rod near the shack is amazing for dropping that noise floor right down. Especially on 80 / 160 :-) Love your videos Dave, great information for new and old, keep it up !! Eric - G4VZZ
Thank you. I enjoyed your video. I will change my surge suppressors for alpha delta. N0QFT
When I was a Firefighting Officer, through the years we learned NEC codes & Building codes to an extent. Much learned also through my journey in Ham Radio. I converted a 40' bus into a motorhome. Followed Building, NEC & RVIA codes. Things must be wired correctly. Magic Smoke is nothing compared to electrocution. I worked on several people that were cooked by electricity.
A great subject and one I have to admit I didn't see to until recently, when I took care of grounding the gear in my own shack.
73 de N2NLQ
as always great work Dave. 73 Steve, W1IT
Hi Dave,
Great info. I have about five ground rods out back all bonded together and to the electric service. My house is old enough that we do have copper running all the way to the water service line at the curb. What I don't have are the lightning arrestors. Wanted to install them, but never got around to it. Don't know if I ever will in my present situation. Stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Great video, thanks!
Good info!
In order to bond my station ground to the utility ground, I have to pass by the copper propane line. What sort of protection can I use?
Thanks for this Dave. Any comments/experience on using ground plates? My property is quite rocky so will likely have to go this route. I am thinking of getting some of the alpha delta arrestors you mentioned. With a ground plate I'm guessing they would have to be attched to the ground cable as there will be no rod protruding? Seems obvious but sometimes there is some unique way of doing things.
Thank you for the daily posts! I had a question on your mention of the inclusion of a ground rod at the vertical antenna. Do you then need to bond that ground to the rest of your ground rods? I am bonding the ground rod for my KF7P junction box ground to the mains ground. I have not yet sunk a ground rod at the antenna site.
In theory, yes. I haven't done it yet.
NB: Access to the NEC is available online for free on their website. You just have to create an account.
The brand name for the thermite thing is usually CadWeld. Can be found online or in eletrical stores, the hardware chains usually won't carry them.
Thanks. I understand you can get them via DXEngineering.
When adding ground rods is there a potential for current to back feed from your electrical system through your equipment?
Hi Dave! thanks for the great video! it seems to me like the spark gap type lightning arrestor is inferior to the connected ones that you mentioned dropped your noise level several s- units, presumably due to common mode current. is that the case? thanks!
Great Video , I do have a question for clarity. Are you bonding your lightening arrestor ground to the same ground rod that you are using for your equipment ground ?
Does using a lighting arrester also ground the outside shielding of the coax to cut down on static/floor noise? Thx!
My FT450 has a nice grounding mount on it, but my other radios do not; are other radios for other bands basically just fine with everything else being properly grounded, or am I missing something? Is there anything I can do to further improve RF ground if the rig does not have a grounding piece on it? Like you mentioned with your disaster with the handheld, is there even a proper way to ground a handheld if forced to in a situation?
Dave, great video. Its worth pointing out whilst all the principles are sound worldwide there are different electrical wiring regulations / codes, so folks should check locally what the requirements are for the Nation.
de G0FFL (also a UK electrical engineer :) ) 73
Great point!
I've joined your Patreon today Dave as I'm getting tons of great education from you. One question on grounding my station; if my station is on the 2nd floor, my connection to the ground rod is going to be at least 15' long. Okay to use heavy gauge round copper for that? I'm not sure I can find a copper strap that long. Thank you for the great videos. KN6OHO.
Dave, you mentioned that your house ground was attached to the copper piping, but that since the copper was connected to PVC it was of no value. What did you do then to bound to the house ground? I have a similar situation. I have copper water lines but the main running out to the road is flexible PVC. In 1995 (when the house was built) it was likely code to connect in this manner. How to we remedy this today?
Question on the #6 ground wire running from the antenna ground rod to the home ground rod. You said prefered buried. My LMR 400 coax antenna cable runs underground from my antenna ground to my house/shack through 1" gray electrical pvc pipe. Its about 15-20 ft direct line between the two. Is it ok to run the #6 wire through the pvc pipe with the 400 cable, or would that be better through the dirt next to & outside the pvc pipe? If it makes no difference, id rather put it in the pipe with the 400, just not sure whats best.
Another great video, Dave. I have an entry panel that is used for my cellular N type cable that is LMR400. It has the alpha delta arrestors. Not everyone agrees on dissimilar metals but after growing up in the 1960’s with the fire problems with aluminum wire I am wanting to be careful. My panel on the inside of the shack will be stainless steel. Would bnc or SO239 be best for feedthrough bulkhead connectors on the panel? Bnc seems to have a higher frequency, just don’t know if power is an issue ( most HF is below the 150MHz limit of SO249, so perhaps I am overthinking this).
For higher power, such as 100 watts and above, the UHF connectors (PL-259, SO-239) are standard practice in the USA. I would avoid running high power through BNC. Of course, you can use N-connectors if you want.
Can I use the negative ground in the panel . I dug my own trench outside and added ground plates. Now can I add a 6 gauge wire from the trench into the house negative ground panel.? 73. Appreciate your advice thank you
got the ARRL book on Kindle. A WEALTH of information for 10 bucks. thanks!
HI Dave, Right now have shack grounding configured as suggest: each piece of equip connects to copper ground pipe that connects to grounding rod. A local also knowledgeable HAM says they should all connect to one common point on the pipe then out to grounding rod. does it matter? Thanks 73's
How do I ground my portable station. I have a HT to 80 watt amp to ladder line indoor antenna on the 2nd floor of a apartment? Is there any ground system that can be plugged in the wall?
A second floor ham shack installation has the obvious problem of a very long path to earth ground. I will put my VHF/UHF and HF antennas in the attic, so electrical charges induced by the wind or a lightening strike are not an issue. I have read that if I have a full metal plate or mesh under the floor of the shack and bond it to the single point copper bus bar for connection to the various equipment in the shack, that would be effective in keeping the RF in the shack down. I do have a subfloor floor panel that has full covering of aluminum (in support of my radiant heating system). Opinions on such a solution for a second floor ham shack are appreciated.
Hi Dave! Thanks for all your efforts. My question has to do with grounding a station on the second floor of my house. What would be your recommendation? I have good access to attic above the room and a few windows, though only one window not facing the front of the house. Fortunately, that one side window is on the better side of the house for antenna placement. Thanks again.
I recommend bringing all antenna coax to your single point station ground rod where the lightning arrestors are, and then taking the coax up to your station. It will solve many problems, though the amount you spend on coax may be higher.
@@davecasler Thank you kind sir! Do I not need to run a ground from the station to a grounding rod?
Dave- My house ground rod is located very close to my shack location. I assume connecting to that ground rod is OK? Or do I really want a separate ground rod?
My station ground and electrical ground are nowhere near each other. My house electrical ground is attached to the water pipe and is on the other side of my house. How then do I bond them together without having to run several feet of wire? Could I instead just ground my station to the water pipe and not a separate rod?
New additions of the National Electric Code are published every 3 years rather than every year.
My ham shack desk will literally be 3' from the service panel. Can I simply skip the station ground rod and just do everything in your video using the utility ground rod?
Also, I have an inverted L with a good RF ground field made of 60 random length wires.
I have 3 ground rounds near the base of the inverted L, but I only run the coax back to the shack. Should I also bury a #6 copper wire to bond those three ground rods to the stations ground?
Thanks for everything Dave.
DW W9BOQ
I have a bunch of rock, or some hard object, at the station im working on in the hill country of texas and, not the the same degree, my home station in phoenix. When i drive a ground rods, i get between three and four feet, most closer to three feet.
What would be a good way to get the ground rod closer to 8 ft?
Would i need to run separate trenches for the coax and bonding wire?
You have a common problem. Take a look at how the utility is grounded. It may be grounded to a piece of rebar sticking up near where the meter is. This is called an Ufer ground. Lots of places in the southwest have to use these because the ground is so hard. There is an alternative to driving ground rods straight down. Unfortunately, you will need excavation equipment. Dig a trench as deep as you can where you want to put the ground rod, three or 4 feet down. Then take two ground rods lay them end to end. Under them were the Tips touch. Then before you put all the dirt back in, there is something called ground enhancement material that should be available from your local Home Depot or Lowe’s. Pack that around the ground rods and then push the dirt back after connecting wireWhere it needs to go. 73 from Dave
John Boy Utah here Brenda’s Hubble . KJ7TBR Dave is it a good idea to connect station ground to utility ground ? If you had an in home appliance ground fault with the neutral conductor, would you not have 110 volts ac introduced to your station ground???
FYI: A new edition of the National Electrical Code is issued every 3 years. 73/Fraternally, Rick KG5MWG.
I don't find the copper strap stocked anywhere. Any recommendations for sources?
DXEngineering.com
Do not ever use silver bearing solder around aluminum housings that contain a GDT. The Polyphaser lightning arrestors I use also have capacitors for a DC block. There is a small amount of solder on the wires of the capacitors to one end of the GDT. It doesn't take much solder and a higher Sn content will be the best to use. Al and Ag are on opposite ends of the galvanic chart. Also keep any graphite away from Al. They are near the same positions in the chart.
73,
Robert
Thanks Dave for another very helpful video.
73
wd4dda
Dave, you mention you grounded your cable braid, can you comment/explain how you did this? Blessings and good health to you. KA7MUB
Link to book. Motorola Standards and Guidelines for Communication Sites. www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Lands_ROW_Motorola_R56_2005_manual.pdf
Great refresher video Dave. Mr Carlson's Lab has a really good example of the static electricity buildup from an antenna arcing in a piece of equipment during a snow storm: czcams.com/video/-_MsOjQEC3k/video.html
It shows the need for high value static bleed resistors or other means of bleeding off the static electricity buildup on antennas.
Mr Carlsons lab is a good channel.
The organization which publishes the National Electrical Code for use in the United States is the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). It's predecessor organization's original purpose was to harmonize the standards for the installation of Fire Sprinkler Systems. When the World's Columbian Exposition was being built in Chicago electricity showed a deadly tendency to kindle fires. The World Columbian Exposition was to be a showcase for humanity's brand new servant electricity. Well before the exposition was open to the public Chicago Fire Department Horses were dying of exhaustion from the number of fires that were being kindled by this first truly large electrical installation. The Insurance Companies and their Reinsurers, commonly called Underwriters, because of how the business or Reinsurance began, threatened to withdraw all coverage unless their demands were met. One of those demands was that a sample of every part being used in the electrical installations be taken up to a small test facility established over a fire station at 22nd and Wentworth Avenue in Chicago to be examined and tested by William Henry Merrill the engineer that the "Underwriters" had hired. Nothing not entered on the approved listing of acceptable parts was to be installed. Underwriters Laboratories and it's system of product listing was born. Construction continued once the insurance coverage was assured. The exposition was a great success but in a cruel twist of fate during the fifth month of the fair 13 firefighters and 4 civilians were killed when the fairs cold storage warehouse burned. There were 5 different electrical codes in use at the time and the National Board of Fire Underwriters (NBFU) set themselves the task of reducing them to a single document for the use of it's member insurers. The diversity of interest in the new code was going to doom it to failure but the insurers had a real need to have an effective code in place. So meetings were held to which those many different interests were invited. Committees were formed to work on standards for fire sprinkler performance and electrical safety At the meeting were the committees brought in there finished work the National Fire Protection Association was brought into existence.
This is all OLD information and nobody grounds their equipment like this anymore.
Your coax grounding violates National Electrical Code, Art 250.24
You talk a lot but know nothing but Ham fables