What if my Italian Ancestor Naturalized? Does That Affect My Italian Citizenship?
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- Italian Citizenship Podcast EP 31:
What if my Italian Ancestor Naturalized? Does That Affect My Italian Citizenship?
In this episode of the Italian Citizenship Podcast, hosts Marco Permunian, an Italian citizenship attorney and founder of Italian Citizenship Assistance (ICA), along with dual citizen and content creator, Rafael Di Furia talk about how the naturalization (or lack thereof) may affect your petition for Italian citizenship by descent. When petitioning for Italian citizenship Jure Sanguinis, it is necessary to show if your Italian born ancestor ever naturalized and if so, when it occurred. However, if your Italian ancestor never naturalized, it is necessary to prove that very important detail.
00:00 Intro
01:19 Why is the naturalization date important?
02:15 How does the naturalization process work?
03:10 Denied or approved
04:40 Certificate of naturalization vs certificate of citizenship
05:32 Types of certificates of citizenship
07:45 How do you prove that your ancestor never became naturalized
09:05 Census records
11:00 Documents required by consulates
12:16 Where can I find these documents
12:55 Naturalization after 1992
For help with the Italian citizenship process and more information about Italian Citizenship Assistance visit ICA's website:
ItalianCitizenshipAssistance.com
To contact Italian Attorney Marco Permunian and his team of dual-citizenship experts and attorneys you can use the contact form on the Italian Citizenship Assistance website:
ItalianCitizenshipAssistance.com
Also to see more from Rafael Di Furia about life in Italy and life as a dual citizen check out his CZcams channel:
/ rafaeldifuria
#italianamericancitizenship #italiancitizenship #italiandualcitizenship #dualItaliancitizenship #iloveitaly #juresanguinis #jussanguinis - Jak na to + styl
Thank you! Grazie! Is there ever plans to make a video on grandparents that went to other countries? Mine went to the UK and I have had a 'no record of naruralization' notice from the UK National Archives thay say can be sent to .e as an official document...but after watching this video, it seems more complicated than that. I have all othe paperwork in order, but I do look forward to having your law firm in Italy assist in my process.
Is there any case law in Italy where you have been able to argue the difference between an Italian:
1) being naturalized by another country
2) renouncing Italian citizenship
In the case of Italian born minors, if their parents came to the USA and naturalized, the minor may have acquired the citizenship, but through no act of their own, ever renounced their Italian citizenship.
There isn't I'm afraid, it's very unfair but minors who naturalisised under the parents are deemed legal and lost their citizenship.
You still qualify after 3 years legal residency in Italy via a parent being a former Italian citizen.
Thank you gentlemen. My great grandfather started - but never completed, the naturalization process so I find myself somewhere between the two scenarios discussed in this video. In my research, I find that he actually filed two Declarations of Intention - one prior to my grandfather's birth (late 1800's) and another, nine years after he was born. He never followed through since all subsequent census records indicate either "al" or "pa" meaning he never obtained U.S. citizenship. No Petition for Citizenship or Certificate of Naturalization is present through the State and USCIS record searches as well.
My concern is that both Declarations of Intention contain a sworn oath taken in open court and contain his signature. The oath clearly swears off any and all allegiance to foreign powers - and specifically, the King of Italy. Everything I have read and heard indicates that the only thing that matters is the date of the Oath of Allegiance taken during the third and final step of the naturalization process (which he never achieved). The declarations predate the more standardized approach by the federal government of the naturalization process in the early 1900's. What is the interpretation specific to my Jure Sanguinis journey in light of the oath that appears on these documents? Do the consulates consider this a formal renunciation and disqualification? Thank you for any information or opinion!
Hello TB - My case is similar to yours.My Greatgrandfather filed an Application for Naturalization - it's listed in the 1900 Census - but died in 1902 before he was Naturalized. (His Widow applied for Naturalization on her own behalf in 1907 so it's obvious she didn't become a US Citizen through her Husband.)
My Grandma was born in 1893 - well before Greatgrandpa applied for US Citizenship. So she inherited the Italian Citizenship from her Father.
MY Issue is that Grandma was a Woman and therefore couldn't pass on Italian Citizenship to her Kids - specifically My Dad. And he was born well before 1948 so ... I will have to file an Appeal in the Supreme Court in Rome.
But since there's no Record of our Greatgrandfathers being Naturalized US Citizens - I see NO reason to produce the Census Document that shows he had applied for US Citizenship. I mean - this is complicated enough!
Why make it harder?
Just so you’re aware: USCIS is part of the Department of Homeland Security, NOT the Department of State. The Department of State’s Bureau of Consular Affairs is responsible for issuing Apostilles for Federal records, issuing Consular Reports of Birth and Death Abroad, providing consular services through American embassies and consulates, and issuing passports inside the United States. However, immigration records are obtained through the Department of Homeland Security’s United States Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). This department was created following the events of 9/11. Prior to that, naturalizations and immigration were managed by the Department of Justice’s division called the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). That is why on old immigration documents you’ll see the initials “INS” and many documents from the Department of Justice.
Thank you for your informative videos! I am applying for Italian citizenship by descent, but have a bit of a special situation regarding my Italian lineage.
My Great Grandfather naturalized in Scotland, and I have ordered a certified copy proving that he naturalized in 1934, after both my grandfather and father were born. Per your comments this should mean I qualify for citizenship.
Question 1:
My father immigrated from Scotland to Canada in 1952 and I was born in 1959. Does this same rule apply, since my dad was technically still an Italian citizen when he immigrated due to the lineage - or does this change things? I have requested my Dad's naturalization papers from Canada - I believe it was after I was born, but also Canada was part of the Commonwealth so I'm pretty confident he kept his UK citizenship - which I believe would mean he still carried the Italian lineage. Is this correct?
Question 2: I am a Canadian citizen, living in Austin, Tx. with a Permanent Resident card (exp. July 2022). Should I apply for Italian citizenship (if above info still qualifies me), before applying for US citizenship? Wondering if the reverse would affect my application for Italian citizenship, or vice-versa. My Green Card expires in 2022, so time is of the essence.
Question 3: Do I need to apply for citizenship at an Italian Consulate in Canada due to the lineage, or to my closest Italian Consulate in the US, which is in Houston?
I have requested an estimate for your services, but have not yet received.
Thank you for any insight you can provide.
Great work on all your parts. Do you have resources available to help people in Canada through the process of getting italian citizenship or are your services only for the USA?
My Grandmother was born while her parents were still legal aliens, but my Great Grandfather took his oath 18 months before my Grandfather was born. So close, even though all of my family on my Dad's side came from Sicily
Question: grandmother naturalized after my mother was born (post 1/1/48). However, her husband was granted citizenship as a child in 1926 via his father. Does this negate my connection via my grandmother?
Proving a negative, that's what I'll likely need to do. Neither the National Archives of NYC nor the Hudson County (NJ) Clerk have any record of my GF’s citizenship. I’ll hear from the NJ State Archives soon and from the USCIS in the future on their search results. I did find my GF’s Declaration of Intention (DI), which was filed June 1927 in US District Court, likely Newark, NJ. My father was born Nov. 1929.
Could my GF have received US citizenship just 17 months after the DI? Could he have received his citizenship at a county court house if the DI was filed in federal court?
And there’s a twist: Married in 1927, my grandparents appear not to have been living together according to the 1930 census. The 1940 census shows my grandfather in the family household, but the letters “Na” appear on the line with his name. That stands for “naturalized.” I read that some immigrants thought the DI was citizenship.
How would a census enumerator have determined someone was or wasn’t a naturalized citizen?
Thank you in advance for sharing your insight.
Hello, and hope you are well . . .
Trying to decide if its worth tracking
documents.
If my Italian born Grandfather (birth in Italy prior to 1912) became a U.S.A Citizen in 1954 AFTER his direct decendent, Italian daughter (my mom) was born on U.S. soil in 1944?
I'm reading online that this may be a legal loophole for me to still be a "blood line right" to Italian citizenship because my mom was technically a minor (couldn't renounce) & an Italian citizen due to her Italian dad being "foreign soil" Italian dad (also my Italian grandfather) was not technically a U.S. citizen until 1954 based on U.S. Certificate of Citizenship document (document number starts with A for an alien certificate).
And I don't believe either of them voluntarily or officially renounce Italian citizenship.
*Note* Grandpa did come to U.S prior to 1912 as a baby with Italian Great Grandparents.
Thanks for this information. What if my great grandfather was naturalized (I have the naturalization record 😞) but my great grandmother wasn't (I don't have proof yet, but it seems to be my only hope)? Could that work?
Yes that could work! Yours might be a 1948 case. Contact us through our website for a free assessment of your case
I think I’m in this same boat: my great grandfather seems to have naturalized in 1912, and my grandmother was born in 1919. However my great grandmother’s naturalization papers are missing, and I’m hoping, hoping, hoping that she never did file, or filed *after* 1919. Is there hope?
Its so frustrating, when my birth certificate states my mother birth place is Italy and I cannot attain any dual citizenship cause she married and naturalized. Her parents are buried in their home town and I still cannot get dual citizenship.
Did your mother automatically naturalize because she got married? Or did she apply to naturalize at the same time. That's my question. Can the woman marry the naturalized Italian and still be Italian because she never officially naturalized and kept her citizenship?
You can still obtain citizenship after 3 years of legal residency in Italy as a child of a former Italian citizen. I know its not the easiest option but it its still an option.
What if my GG grandmother and GG grandfather were married in Italy and conceived my G grandfather in Italy. The GG grandfather came over to US and left his family behind until he could get naturalized which happened in 1896. Right after he was naturalized the GG grandmother and G grandfather came to the US to reunite the family. At that time my G grandfather was 5 years old. Neither the G grandfather or GG grandmother ever renounced their Italian citizenship because they automatically became naturalized due to being the child (minor) and wife. Do I have a shot at citizenship using the 1948 case?
I know this post is on the older side, but I'm trying to determine the same thing! GGF naturalized when the rest of the family lived in Italiy for a handful of years.
Yeah. Y grandfather was a bootlegger and unfortunately killed just after he naturalized. So I am therefore unable to.
Now you've said it both ways. You have said that if the minor was born before his parent naturalized he was eligible. Now you saying because their a minor they can't.
Is there any other way to qualify if your grandparents naturalized before your parent (mother in this case) was born?
I would think try your dad side thats what i did .
If both grandparents naturalize before your mother was born they have broken the link.
That leaves you only with the option of living in Italy for 3 years and applying for citizenship through a former Italian citizen relative.
What if my grandfather became an Italian citizen after my father's birth and remained in Italy until he passed. Is there a way to citizenship?
I'm afraid not, Italian citizenship can only be passed on before birth not afterwards.
So if my grandfather was naturalized after my father was born, (my father was 4 years old in 1926), does that disqualify me?
No, I think he misspoke, see attached: czcams.com/video/86Z0cB59XgA/video.html
No you're probably good to go
I naturalised in 2014 and became Italian, I am married but had an affair with a lady and got her pregnant, now the baby is born in Ghana ,what should I do to let the baby get Italian citizenship because the father is Italian
So my case is interesting. My father was one of the biggest Italian criminals in us history. He’s on my birth certificate in the US. He never naturalized nor become a citizen neither did his brothers. He served prison time in the USA therefor there’s records everywhere internet newspaper etc lol. Does that make it easier to obtain dual citizenship with Italy? I’m in the process of obtaining by fathers birth certificate in Palermo Italia and it takes a few months
As long as never naturalised he is still Italian and could pass citizenship on to you, even if he was Bin Laden, so long as he was Italian and not American at the time of your birth that's all that mattered.
Oh great ! So if your father or grandfather was a mobster and so never naturalized, you are allowed Italian citizenship ? Makes sense.
Very lame rule