Swedish K vs CAR-15 Combat Test
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2023
- Swedish K Combat Test
When MACV-SOG began running operations into Laos in late 1965 the were ordered to carry non-US weapons to maintain Plausible Deniability. They chose the Swedish K submachinegun. In 1967 the NVA beefed up security along the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the SOG fighters found themselves out-gunned.
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During the Cold War, I served in the Swedish military. The first shoulder arm I carried was the Swedish K. Mine was a m/45b with fixed magazine housing and the "hook" fixing the back cap more securely to the frame. I liked the K very much. It never once jammed, even when dirty or in very cold weather.
Later in the reserve, we carried the G3, also a dependable weapon.
The 336 round magazine taken from the KP-31 was and still is one of the most reliable 9mm magazines.
Didn't you use the Ak4? (that's a modified version of the G3)
@@sixtenalin Jo men lättare att förklara för ytlänningar
@@larss337 förståeligt.
@@sixtenalin It was used as well. In the days of full sized battle rifles though most nations also used SMG's for soldiers that had special tasks like radio operators, squad leaders, drivers, engineers etc. Examples are the M/45 in Sweden, Madsen in Denmark, Sterling in UK and Canada, Owen and F1 in Australia. UZI in Germany and Isreal, Beretta M12 in Italy. All of the above used full sized battle rifles like the FAL / L1A1, G3 / AK4, BM59. With widespread adoption of 5.56mm weapons the need for SMG's basically dissapeared except for law enforcement and anti terror use where low penetration is useful to reduce collateral damage but even in that use 5.56mm and even .300BLK is replacing them.
The problem with taking pictures in a hostile environment is them getting into the wrong hands . OP SEC.
I have a buddy who has the permits to build machine guns, and he has a 'K' that was built from a parts kit. It is indeed a pleasant gun to shoot.
Interestingly, as the war heated up, the Swedes banned the sales of the M/45 to the US, so Smith & Wesson developed a similar gun (NOT a clone), the Model 76.
Nice summary!
I recall reading that John Plaster switched his Swedish K for the CAR-15 when they became available and then he ditched his pistol in order to be able to carry more rifle magazines.
I knew guys from 5th group who experienced this. Later got to handle a K and S&W M76 which was based on the K. Weight was everything and I learned out to save every ounce including substituting para cord for Alice clips.
My service veapon was the swedish k when i served in swedish army. Fun to shoot!
You can remove the mag well on the first iteration of the M/-45 and use 50 round coffin mags or 71 round drums from the KP-31 Suomi. Sweden had previously used a license built version called the M/37 and took the magazines for the M/-45 from the KP/-31 as the 36 round magazine was and still is one of the most reliable 9mm magazines. Perfect for dirty environments or extremes of temperature as they have a slightly triangular cross section allowing some movement with the rounds stacked in them.
the problem with the m16 back then, was the ammo.
When I became a team leader, and a squad leader in the Rangers I was issued a XM177E2 carbine, and it was my favorite!!
British army vet here and had the M16A1 as my personal issue for a while. Never had any reliability issues at all provided it was maintained. Made a change from the L1A1 SLR and the Sterling SMG.
The M16A1 rifle was design to use Ball powered ammo and the Stick powered ammo with it chrome Barrel and Chamber rifle bore and cleaning kits, the XM16E1 rifle was non chrome that it have to be cleaning after use with Ball Ammo which cause the jamming problem in the 1966- 67 time frame the heavy gas pressure and dirty carbon built up will cause stove pipe issue and small cracks in the non chrome chamber bore there was a deliberate shortage of 22 calibre cleaning kits at the time period in the US military .
I carried a 'K' in the cockpit. Short and easy to swing around in the AC. Went to a CAR-15 when they became available. Both excellent weapons. The 5.56 had more knock down power than the 9mm, CAR had a faster cyclic rate and less recoil with it's internal buffer spring, tracers were more available for the CAR for AC use.
I read "The Black Rifle" many years ago and several articles since then on the development of the CAR-15. The flash hider or suppressor was actually referred to as a "Moderator". It's purpose was to reduce the muzzle flash and report from the CAR-15's short barrel to that of a standard 20-inch barrel. There's no mention about the Moderator's design to mimic the sound of a Type 56 (Chinese AK-47) or to increase dwell time for reliability. The rate of fire for an Ak-47 is approximately 600 rpm compared to the CAR's 750, so the CAR's rpm would have to be slowed down to sound anything like an AK.
Great video on early weapon options.
Cool video 👍 My friends dad was a Colonel in the special forces over there and a favorite uncle was in the 75 th infantry a Ranger unit. I read some great books about you guys
The XM177E2 was actually fitted with a _moderator,_ as opposed to a "suppressor."
Yes, you’re exactly right. We had a few in the late ‘70’s that apparently were early Air Force CAR-15’s. They were Colts, and were stamped “AR15” but they were still select fire like a normal M-16, with the vinyl coated aluminum collapsable stock & the bayonet lugs were shave off as well. At least we thought they may have been USAF guns because of the early markings stamped on them. The Moderators, as they were referred to then were all identical on each one of them. They were great little Carbines to have around whether we were in vehicles or the cockpit of a Huey, which occasionally was know to happen where the space there was obviously limited.
@@tieroneactual2228 Sounds like you may have acquired a GAU-5/A, though there are several other designations we used depending on the barrel length and time period (GAU-5/A, GAU-5A/A and GUU-5/P). These were almost identical to the XM-177 series except for the lack of a forward assist. During the Vietnam War we issued them to dog handlers, though other personnel acquired them as well. They were commonly used by our Combat Control Teams and Pararescuemen. By the 1990s they were getting long in the tooth, so when the M4 came out the USAF decided to purchase them for our Security Force (formerly Security Police and Air Police). The demand increased dramatically once OIF kicked off and the USAF found itself having to conduct combat convoy duty. This resulted in shortages because all the M4s were destined for Security Force. As a result I was tasked with determining the feasibility of upgrading a portion of our existing inventory of rifles and carbines to M4 standard. In the end we managed to wangle enough M4s from Security Force to meet our needs, so the idea was dropped.
The moderator was mostly there to increase reliability in the short barrel. A little like the booster on an AKS74U.
The "moderator" is legally a silencer, people want to get Captain Pedantic over that, but Hiram Maxim invented the silencer and that's what he called it on the patent, not "suppressor". He invented it, he got to name it.
@@chuckhaggard1584 It isn't a supressor though. It doesn't trap any gas it just rerouts it in a way that makes the gun sound kind of like an AK.
I liked the accuracy of the M-16. It seemed like you just couldn't miss once the target was acquired. I enter the Air Force in 1972 as a Law Enforcement Specialist and never experienced an issue with them. Could have totally done without their .38 revolver though, rounds would just bounce off windshields. Great review. Unfortunately, the Government has not changed one bit.
Was that the one that had to use special low-pressure .38 ammunition because it had an ultralight aluminum frame and any hotter load of ammo would blow the thing up?
THE GOVERNMENT HAS CHANGED!!!!!!! LOL ITS THE PRIDE ARMY NOW LOL! WE ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD EVER SINCE JOJOSNIFFYSNIFF GOT INTO OFFICE!!!!
@@fleebogazeezig6642 that one was specifically for pilots. They very quickly came to the logical conclusion that aluminum makes terrible revolver cylinders and it doesn't save enough weight to matter.
I enjoyed this segment....
john Plaster at CCC didn't rate the Swedish K, he complained the 9mm rounds didn't hit hard enough and the NVA didn't stay down, so he switched to the CAR-15.
i'm still curious as to why you are using a false name to write your book when so many former members of SOG have come out into the open?
I always thought the mini frag grenades were so boss when I was a kid.
Great channel.
Folks at SOG may have had official issue weapons. like the M-16. But all kinds of guns showed up. And some got modified to the user's taste. Like chopped off M-79 and silenced pistols.
I had an M-16, 38 snub nose revolver, Browning HiPower, and a shotgun. I gave away an SKS, but had an AK-47 but never used it.
If someone wanted a particular weapon, for a reason, I'm sure they could get it.
My favorite was an old silenced Sten gun. You could hear the heavy bolt slamming back and forth a half mine away. It, like most of the other stuff was great for taking photos.
@@DawsonsWar I owned a Sten, non silenced, some time after I left service. And tho fun, decided I didn't need the legal grief, so sold it to a friend.
In country I was 6' 2", 220 pound white guy. Knowing I was more visible that any indig, reducing my presence was high on my list. One thing I came up with was polishing the selector on my M-16. I could go from Safe to Full Auto with no click. Only mattered once, but not a critical event.
With a Hatchet force we had set up for the night. The few Americans in the middle, and the Yards in an extended defensive perimeter. It was pitch black. The only thing I could see was a couple square feet of night sky, way up. Myself and another American were near each other and we both heard soft, slow footsteps coming directly at us. They stopped within arms reach. I had my rifle pointed crotch high and had selectored to full auto, no CLICK. A few moments passed. Any questionable noise from our visitor would proly have made me fire. My plan was that regardless of what triggered me to fire, I would have just stitched him, bottom to top, just on recoil, once I pulled. Nothing. The other American and I reached the same conclusion and slowly reached out with our free hand and felt/frisked our visitor. Decided he was one of ours, a scared kid, and pointed him back toward his place on the perimeter. The next day I spotted him as we moved out, IDing him by a large tear on the pant leg at his left knee. No excitement, but he never knew how close he was to never seeing daylight again.
During this exchange neither me or the other American ever saw anything, it was pitch black. But could the Yards see in the dark? Or just so good in the woods, that he knew where we were without seeing. I'll never know.
It kinda supported my concerns for noise discipline.
@@CandC68 that's not how an AR safety selector works...i call total bs fan fic sorry
@@AthelstanKing Really? How does it work then?
@@AthelstanKing Here is how mine (and most) worked. The visible thumb lever on the outside has a rod that goes through the frame. The rotation of the rod determines how the firing occurs, or doesn't. Safe(no fire), Auto(full automatic if trigger is held), and Fire(one shot. trigger must be released and pulled again to fire). What holds that rod at each stop is a small groove around the pin. That groove has small round recesses. A round faced spring loaded pin rides in that groove. Holding the switch firmly at each stop.
Normally that makes a tiny click as the detent drops off the edge of the next stop. So, I polished the switch rod for smooth edges and the detent would drop in and hold, but not make the click.
I don't know any changes to the gun since then. But that is what I did.
Outstanding
you can put a battery in the swedish k, and make it fire twice as fast.
Standard EverReady flash light battery, put behind the spring to give it more tenshion.
Typicle Sweds....Looong winter nights....cain´t sleep....brain storm.."MAN I GOT AN IDEA!!" hustle into the garage too tinker away.
You can easily click an AK from safe, to auto, to semi, while keeping your "finger on the trigger". I do it every time I go out on a mission with an AK.
Thanks for the comment, it allowed me to find your channel www.youtube.com/@Irish_Pirate/videos
Guess I should have mentioned our point men were Asian with small hands.
@@DawsonsWar Yeah, you can find some Special Forces training videos on there that I make from time to time. The position of the selector levers on both the M16 and the AK, shows what they think is most important. For the AK, the first click down is full auto... what the Soviets were taught to use more than aimed fire. Meanwhile, the first click for the M16 is semi-auto, because Americans put more emphasis on aimed fire than pure volume.
Did the US use the 9mm 39/B ammo? Packs a better punch than standard 9mm parabellum and has a flat (in comparison) trajectory.
Sorry, I don't know.
Did SOG recon teams or hatchet forces run any missions on the ground inside of North Vietnam? If so, what kind of missions were they, how often did they occur and how deep into North Vietnam did they go?
Mostly Bright Light missions from what I know, though NAD operated off the coast and landed a good few times I believe.
I found out about the Swedish K in 1972. I borrowed a copy of Donald Hamiliton's 1960 Matt Helm novel, "The Wrecking Crew" from my school library and read of a Swedish submachine gun--but the reference books available to me claimed that the M/45 was not select-fire, was full-auto only. Matt said that he selected single shot, and Donald Hamilton knew guns. I found out last year that the M/45B was issued to Swedish police and was fitted with a selector switch for semiautomatic and full-auto fire.
Would semiautomatic fire have been more useful to MAC-SOG? A few integrally suppressed Swedish K submachine guns were reportedly made (users not specified) and single suppressed shots are less detectable and much more difficult to pinpoint than when the gunner goes rock-n-roll with his machine gun. The Smith and Wesson Model 76 submachine gun was designed for the SEALs when Sweden reminded the USA that Sweden was neutral--or so the story goes--the Smith and Wesson had a selector switch and was also marketed as a police arm.
Fifty years to find out that there were two models of the Swedish K submachine gun in service!
Firing single shot with a Swedish K was very easy to master. However, trying to get our Montagnard mercenaries to fire single shot was impossible. So, yes a selector is preferable. Thanks for your interest.
@@DawsonsWar The development and adoption of the three-shot burst mechanism for the M16A2 rifle tells me that the brass thought impossible to get American Marines and Soldiers to fire short bursts from their service rifles. The M1918A2 Automatic Rifle and the M3/M3A1 Submachine Gun were full-auto only. I used to could tap off single shots with the selector on full-auto even with weapons that had fire rates of 900 rounds per minute and taught hundreds how to control M60 and M249 Machine Gun burst length.
Thanks for reminding me that sometimes training won't take effect. It wasn't just the Montagnards that couldn't be taught, it seems.
One problem with the M16A2 burst control mechanism was six different trigger pulls--the cam rotates 180 degrees for a three-shot burst. I forgot the sequence, but there were two heavy, two medium and two light trigger strokes with the same M16A2. I was forced to take leave when the 533rd MI Bn (part of 3rd Armored Division) went to the rifle range with the M16A2 fo4 the first time. My company commander called me in to run a remedial class because my company had more than half of the shooters fail to qualify. I emphasized proper semiautomatic trigger control and that fixed the problem. The consistent trigger pull of the M16A1 had spoiled even those who normally fired Expert. When they forced themselves to use a four-step process that included follow-through, their scores exceeded what they had achieved with the M16A1 because the M16A2 with M855 ball cartridges was more accurate. Every solution brings new problems.
Requiring Special Forces to use weapons other than standard-issue US weapons may have supplied "plausible deniability" but the new problems created were Neutral Sweden cutting off supplies and the weapons perhaps not meeting end user needs. The CAR-15 wasn't standard issue but probably didn't fool anybody. What became the M16 kept failing its US Army acceptance trials like the Thompson submachine gun and the AK-47 did. I guess that the Pentagon games made sense to someone but did inflict difficulties on the people in the arena.
If my information is correct, the K stood for "kugelspritzer" or bullet hose.
Sweden neutral? Yeah right 😂😂😂
@@CorvusCorax. "Neutral" means many things to many people.
Fun fact!!!! The Swedes supported the VC!!!! And found out SF were using the Swedish K in the War!!!! So naturally, they broke their contract w/ the US Military!!!!!
However, Smith and Wesson stepped up and made a knockoff the Swedish K, the S&W 76 Smg!!!!!
Thanks
@@DawsonsWar Being 1/2 Vietnamese, I know my History!!!! God Bless you and TYFYS!!!!!🫡🫡🫡
Having owned both firearms, I found the S&W 76 to be a poor substitute for the sturdy and stable Swedish K.
@@Paladin1873 like I said, it was a Knockoff!!!! The Chinese could probably do the same!!!!!:/
It's not so much that we supported "the VC" or North Vietnam, it was more that we were against the illegal war in Vietnam. The support from our government was pretty much only diplomatic and humanitarian, as well as some support for American refugees (like actor Joel Kinnamans father). There were a few private initiatives, for example a left wing organization raised funds to purchase anti aircraft weaponry for North Vietnam, but these were not sanctioned by the government.
It would be miserable going up against AK-armed troops with a Swedish K.
Fortunately, I never had to.
Nine millimeter such an underrated caliber. You never seen the Unknown soldier? What finns did with Suomi M31 might surprize you as well as the fact that after the followed copies of Swedish K became knownly carried in nam operations the swedes stopped selling to USA and the demand was high enough that Smith and Wesson had to make a straight copy of it. Dont remember if it was in 9 or 45 calibered - anyways. The Viet Minh propably carried some soviet ppsh41 and later stamped receiver models. These were also copied from very same Suomi smg after soviets got heat in Winter war losing fights using Dedgaryev automatic rifles and tens of riflemen assaulting single suomis and handful of supporting riflemen. Finns end up capturing quite a pile of those.
No other country got the longer mags to work good enough it seems so they were left with those too short mags made even shorter always stuck reloading on combat. Finns used 72round drumms and 50rnd "coffin mags" offering the needed fast suppression you must have to use smg effectively especially when (often if not always) low on grenades and/or support. There were infantrymen in singles and pairs with Suomis, molotovs and panzerfausts knocking out entire t34 tanks with crews on the followed Continuation war.
The thing with these smgs is you either do a good job from far with few slugs semiauto or you control the bursts on the move. Its an smg not a sniper rifle, Simo Häyhä like most finns used both. You generally want to hit more than once and you carry it correctly, similarly the French used mas38. Sling it tight and comfortable gripping as hard as can on the barrel or mag then spray and pray often by feel not aim. Thats what we Finns call a professional smg operator. Con is hard to control but when mastered you end up firing and moving the same time much efficiently. Thats how finns kicked soviets back quite badly when given opportunity. Look finnish military videos from cold war period they still fight similarly with the Valmet Ak variants, shooting while moving the thing slinged or grabbed to ones body like a soviets or even well trained viet minh might have done. finns still use the said tactics mixed with modern stuff.
The M4 and the M249 were adopted in part based on findings SOG made in Vietnam
They sure were. The SAW looks attractive with it's lighter weight and 200 rounds weighing less than 100 rounds of M-60 ammo. In the jungle I'd stick with the M-60's ability to punch through thick vegetation.
@@DawsonsWar
The Stoner LMG and RPD were popular with spec ops in Vietnam. Of course, the average fight was less than 50 meters in much of the jungle there
More like 50 feet. I know, I served in SOG for 19 months. We had some modified RPDs. They were about 10 pounds lighter than the M-60. Recon teams carried them, or at least they posed for pictures with them. I mostly ran a 36 man hatchet force with 5 M-60 teams. You can stop the enemy form maneuvering with an M-60.
@@DawsonsWar
Absolutely. Short range and very violent. Mass fire is more important in that environment.
Now, with modern ammo like M855A1, 5.56 can cut through trees much better than m183
5:13 there’s a flash hider and not a suppressor. It has no way in reducing the noice of the gun but was found to change the sound to almost mimic an AK-47 being fired in the dance jungle because of the cut out of the muzzle device
Your right it's not a suppressor. I've read that it was supposed to sound like an AK. It doesn't.
Legally it's a silencer, it does in fact cut down on the blast. It's an inefficient silencer, but one nonetheless.
the M16 had little buck..kinda liked easy to shoot...was it similiar to the Kar shooting??
Did You have access to the Swedish ammunition 9/39 B?
I have no idea. I got there just as the CAR-15 was being issued and had limited experience with the Swedish K. I don't remember knowing anything about the types of ammunition we carried. If it fit in the magazine and went bang that was good enough for us.
What about the Knives special operations carried 🤔
When I got to C&C I had heard of the "SOG knife" being issued. And that they stopped issuing them cause NO ONE ever turned them back in. So I was issued an Air Force Survival Knife. I later got a bolo knife. Setting up an OP outside the Yard camp of FOB2, I was clearing small trees and brush. It broke in half. So I finished off one tree painfully with the AF survival knife. Ugly but functional.
We carried the penknife that came in the demo kits.
@@DawsonsWar Thank you for this information 😎
Franchi Lf-57 at 0:25
If U.S. firearms laws would ever change so that full auto weapons could be owned without all the BS, a Swedish K would be the main one I'd like to have.
Yank Booze Gangster war Chicago are was 100 years ago. Need still NFA ATF bureau😂😂😂
In the 1970s, when it was easier to steal those or even getting them legally by joining the Home Guard, it was a favourite weapon for Swedish bank robbers.
Talk about the "grease gun" please
Sorry, I never held or fired one. I was shown one at FOB 1 and was told it was a rare version that had been converted to 9mm and dropped to the OSS in WW2. I have no idea if that was true.
@@DawsonsWar Grease Guns were originally intended to be issued with conversion kits to fire 9mm in WWII so that they could be dropped to resistance fighters. However, by the time they could do this, the war was already swinging in the favor of the Allies, so there wasn’t a point to have them. So yeah, the 9x19mm conversion kits for the Grease Gun are extremely rare.
As for the M3 itself, it’s a fun gun to shoot. If you’re familiar with the Swedish K, you’d have no problem transitioning between that and the Grease Gun. Fire rate is slower and I personally like the sights on the K more, but both are very usable and dependable subguns.
i read that the xm177 sounded like the ak47 in the jungle
Whoever wrote that was never in a firefight. CAR-15, M-60, AK-47, RPD all have very distinct sounds.
@@DawsonsWari think that was the one of the original intentions of the moderator, to make it sound like an AK at a distance. Not saying it worked, but that was I heard.
No Ak47s.?? correct?
A few.
stoner63 ftw
KSP 45 B
Did U.S. operatives really use the Swedish K in Vietnam? Sweden refused to sell arms to America because they disapproved of America’s involvement in the Vietnam war. So the U.S. government commissioned Smith&Wesson to make a licenced version of the Swedish K, known as the M76, which became a very famous weapon.
MACV-SOG employed the Swedish K as did the navy SEALS. Orders of the Swedish K to the US military were halted in late 1965. The last shipment was received in February of 1966. SOG had no need for additional Swedish Ks because the CAR-15 was in late-sage development. However, the navy tasked Smith & Wesson to development a sub-machine gun for the SEALS on an urgent basis. Nine months later the first M76s were placed in service. Although the weapon looked remarkably like the Swedish K, it was not made under license. Smith’s chief designer claimed he had never seen, held or fired a Swedish K when he started the design. The M76 was made in black with a few painted green like the Swedish K. The most obvious differences where the plastic grip (rather than wood) on the M76 and the addition of a Safe-Semi-Auto selector switch. Thanks for your question.
Larry Thorne was holding one 🇸🇪 when he’s remains was dig out helicopter fuselage in a mountain.. Laos😂
CAR-15 all day.
M16 was easy to shoot.did like that...
its a xm177 not a car15 get it rite..
Those of us who served in SOG never heard of an xm177. We carried the CAR-15. It’s “right” not “rite.”
Any thoughts on the 5.56 x 45 "Is it big enough" debate? Was it sufficient for the task in Vietnam? Does volume of fire trump less rounds down but more lethal aimed shots? Is that why you described so much use of M60s in your very insightful and compelling book @DawsonsWar ? My thoughts on 5.56x45 NATO standard below:
· I think it's illegal to hunt deer with 5.56x45 in some US states because it's considered inhumane (not lethal enough)
· We were told by an 28yrs service instructor during British army basic training (in 2009) that 5.56x45 was better because it caused bad/fatal wounds rather than being immediately lethal & therefore requiring casualties treating/evacuating
· I've watched a British combat veteran (Helmand) interview saying the same very explicitly
· Most attractive modern alternative I've seen is the 6.8x51 with a polymer/composite case
** I was a REMF in Camp Bastion Helmand in summer 2012, but I did do five top cover duties around the AO for the recovery mechanics - with a 7.62x51 belt fed GMPG in a well appointed cupola 😀 I've never fired a weapon in anger or been fired at, except IDF & IED - both missed. I thank God for all that.
Every weapon or tool is a compromise. And their individual strength to the task they address. A LOT of things go into the plan. For Vietnam, A lot of consideration was weighted towards the expected range, lethality, environment, weights of weapon and ammo. And then throw in that the government is making the choice. Hmmm
That is why some indig, who weigh 100 pounds, but are issued a BAR (15 pounds Plus ammo). SOG was better, cause a lot of weapons were better for specific missions, and were accessible.
But a static position (bunkers, barracks, etc) usually has cleared fields of fire. So more likely to have a few long gun snipers, M-14s, M60 machine guns, Browning .30 cal, or .50 cal. That compound needs overlapping range needs. And many of the "troops on the wall" with M-16s, and M2 Carbines if things get close.
The US Army and others have conducted wound ballistic studies and determined that the effectiveness of the 5.56 projectile is largely dependent upon its velocity at the moment of impact. A loose rule of thumb is you need a minimum of 2500 fps to inflict maximize damage. In theory this means the CAR-15/XM177E2 is most effective within 50 yards. Beyond this range it remains potentially very lethal but its effectiveness begins to diminish. This is true of any projectile, but perhaps more so in the case of the 5.56 because of its diminutive size and weight. However, a 250 meter hit is easy to achieve with the CAR, whereas the typical 9mm SMG is realistically a 100 meter weapon in terms of high hit probability.
@@Paladin1873 And for the jungles of Vietnam; a fast, light weapon was excellent. But not as ideal for open fields of fire, and long range. All weapon choices are compromises. This is why weapon systems are constantly undergoing change. Sadly this is also restricted by politics and money, not just the best for expected use on the ground. And why SOG was lucky to have the freedom to use whatever WORKED. Swedish K, AK, SKS, Thompson, Stoner, Car, silenced pistols, chopped M-79, etc.
@@CandC68 Yes, lots of factors come into play, so one size does not fit all needs. As a humorous aside, a neighbor of mine served three tours in Vietnam as an SF officer. On his first patrol with Montagnard troops he decided to carry an M1 Thompson. Why? Because John Wayne and Sgt Saunders carried Thompsons. How's that for tactically sound reasoning? Anyway, after he got back he said his arms felt like they had stretched two feet. For the remainder of this first tour he carried an M-1 carbine and had photographic proof of its effectiveness.
@@Paladin1873 Yah, the Tommy gun throws lead, but weighs like lead. In fact it functions because of its weight.. Any idea who he served with, other than just SF.? Mike force, SOG, etc?