Dispelling Myths about 3D Printing (Play on Tabletop Response)
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 12. 2023
- Don't miss out on these HUGE savings from Sovol 3D on your next 3D printer. Deal #8 is particularly insane!
www.sovol3d.com/
1. SV07 Plus: $329
2. SV07: $259
3. SV06 Plus: $309 (use code SOV20)
4. SV06: $189 (use code SOV20)
5. SV04: $379
6. Get a 50% discount on filament orders if purchase SV06 Plus
7. Get free 2kg filament if purchase SV04
8. Get a free SV06 if the cumulative order amount of filaments exceeds $500
I mentioned a lot of things in this video, here is my best to make sure I've provided links to each below. Please note some of these links will be affiliate links which help support the channel at no extra cost to you should you choose to make a purchase, and if I forgot something please leave a comment and I'll add the missing link asap!
Play on Tabletop's Video: • Video
Anycubic Mono 2 Resin 3D Printer: shrsl.com/43t22
Sovol SV07 Plus: shrsl.com/4bygi
Minirater: bit.ly/minirater
Buy me a Coffee: www.buymeacoffee.com/onceinas...
Elegoo ABS-Like 2.0 Resin: shrsl.com/42dwn
Chitusystems Conjur Sculpt Resin: geni.us/fWlCYW
Creality UW-02 Wash+Cure Machine: shrsl.com/4as0f
$99 resin printer: www.geeetech.com/alkaid-lcd-l...
Maybe resin 3D printing can be a hobby: www.myminifactory.com/stories...
Cones of Calibration: • This FREE 3D calibrati...
Ameralabs Town: • The BEST Calibration T...
Vengeful Militum (space marine proxy builder): www.myminifactory.com/object/... - Zábava
Don't miss out on these HUGE savings from Sovol 3D on your next 3D printer. Deal #8 is particularly insane!
www.sovol3d.com/
1. SV07 Plus: $329
2. SV07: $259
3. SV06 Plus: $309 (use code SOV20)
4. SV06: $189 (use code SOV20)
5. SV04: $379
6. Get a 50% discount on filament orders if purchase SV06 Plus
7. Get free 2kg filament if purchase SV04
8. Get a free SV06 if the cumulative order amount of filaments exceeds $500
More Videos like this would be great! So many people are anti 3d Printing.
Give Sunlu ABS-LIKE and/or Nylon a try. I was using Elegoo ABS-like 2.0 + ST tenacious and will be switching after the live tests people showed me. Gives incredible durability without even any added mixtures needed.
Yo your sovol link is bad
they privated the video.
I just printed out from Station Forge there version of Death Guard mutants I had no issues with the removal of supports thay came away with no problem and this was after i increased the size to 120% and printed out 20 figures so I could do a bit of figure converting all done on my Anyqubic 2K photon SE printer I have not had so much enjoyment with the painting hobbie since I purchased my first Resin Printer I now own in just 2 years since starting this journey 2 Resin printers one being a mono x 4k and 2 FDM printers kobra go and kobra plus I still support my local gaming store with purchasing Paint and Building materials but I think that the experience of owning and printing my own army's and terrain is a great feeling and can only be a positive in my eyes.
As much as I love 3d printing, there is one down side that is often over looked. Its not price or the technical know how (i'm fairly tech illiterate and can still print quite well), but its the space required.
You need a space with decent ventilation, enough space for your printer and cure station, space to safely store IPA(or dirty water), and this place should preferable be far away from where you eat or sleep.
You can negate some of this by using a grow tent and an in line fan system, but the lack of space to safely 3d print is a major filter to most people.
100% I’ve been living in a small flat for… too long at this point. I wish I could, just don’t have the space
Exactly, biggest hurdle for me, too. And buying 3D printed models from etsy or elsewhere is frankly not that much cheaper than GW, as all these sellers want to earn some money, too (and they should). And quality can vary from these sellers and the resin they use.
100% this. Only thing keeping me away from printing is space. I live in small flat and I'm happy that I could barely fit a tiny table into the living rom to paint my minis on.
You do not need to print yourself. You can always use the service of someone like Excellent Minis. Yes, it will be more expensive than printing yourself. Nevertheless it will be still cheaper than gw.
Agreed, I have a nice wall space for my building, painting, and even airbrushing in my small/shared apartment but I really don't have the space for a 3D printer. I buy 3D prints of Etsy or other sites instead.
SOVOL fixed my broken marriage and stopped my step-son from calling me 'loser.' Some say SOVOL is just a filament printer, but I'm a living testament to how much more than that it really is.
Sovol cured my cancer and let my crop grow, praised be SOVOL the savior.
Nick from the video here. I don’t think I’ve ever had someone else make a video about me! Kinda surreal.
I’ll go out and admit, I think I failed in what I was trying to communicate in my video. I’ve unlisted it as I think the wrong message was getting out.
My attempt was to illustrate that for a very new person getting into printing for the first time, if the only reason they are doing it is to save money, it may not be as easy or as cost effective initially as they think. And because of that, my opinion is that gw isn’t as in danger as some online discussion might suggest.
BUT, I admit. I’m a hobby 3D printer. More dabbler than anything, very much not an expert. So I very much might be wrong.
But my experience has been that it is a lot more work and expense than I thought it would be going into it.
To be clear. I am a fan of 3d printing. And yes I 100% agree. Especially over long term, 3d printing can save you lots of money. I have saved myself money in many instances. I’m sorry that I didn’t present that well in my video.
Love your stuff. Thanks for making videos. Man does that thumbnail make me look angry…😂
The legend himself! Apologies for springing this on you lmao, I hope it wasn't too unpleasant and I'm sorry to see your video has gone.
I totally get where you're coming from with the hidden costs and headaches that noobies may have when things go wrong, but n my mind there's very little for a newbie to understand to get up and running with success these days (specifically with resin), but I could be wrong! I've definitely copped some push-back here for my stance that it's "not a hobby", so I think this will be a really interesting topic to explore deeper in a future video.
Thanks for listening and taking the time to leave a comment here 😁
I thought you made much more balanced and insightful points than the guy in this video. Honestly, becoming an expert in anything will let you do things cheaper than buying a final product made by the combined work of 1000's of people.
But do I want to spend my time becoming an expert or knocking out games? Or anywhere on the spectrum between those two things.
Do I even have the time to make that choice? I think your video did a good job of warning people not to get too hyped up and take a second look before diving in.
It has saved me tons of money just repairing my stupid fancy pants shower as part of the rollers, and smooth mechanism encasement. $300+ 6months wait to get the parts....multiple times.....lol. took me 20mins in CAD, 16 mins in printing time and 7 cents of plastic. I put a smile on my wife's face for 10 minutes until she got mad at me for another reason. Priceless (the smile of my wife's face, she is a true beauty).
I started playing Warhammer because of 3d printing. We're using it to print proxies and fill in the gaps that GW has. Ive bought over $1000 of 40k recently, and will most likely buy more, but I have more options with a 3d printer.
Hi Nick!
His layer line complaint was totally an issue of having to high a layer height.
A skill issue if you will. My IT friend Andreas once said 2/3 of the time the issue is sitting in front of the machine.
Probably printed it like that so he could churn out content faster, slop youtubers
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 Ahh the good old PEBKAC issue.
Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair
@@TheRealOzWookiee indeed.
@@Jigsaw765Can’t imagine it’s this one. Their content is pretty polished and if they wanted to just churn out models we would see it. It’s probably a lack of knowledge. If he doesn’t know where to fine multipart model kits or what resins don’t break chances are he hasn’t fiddled with layer heights any more than is absolutely necessary.
3d printing just enriches the hobby the only thing that will kill GW is GW.
In the tabletop klubs where i go the 3D printer guys are always the meta chasers with unpainted minis.
So i think i disagree.
@@grosslittlegoblin1358 well that sucks but those kinda people existed long before 3d printing was around. its like everything, theres always some people that ruin things. but any tool that can be creative within a hobby such as ours is a positive imo. but i understand your point and its just one of those things that starts with good intentions but ends up getting misused sometimes.
@@grosslittlegoblin1358meta chasers has alway been a thing in 40k, long before 3d printers became viable. The biggest thing that GW did that encouraged meta chasing was getting rid of the force organisation chart in 6th edition Onwards. Force organisation charts tied up meta chasers by restricting their choices and kept things more balanced than it is now. Being tabled within the 1st 3 turns was extremely rare. Not so mich now. Also not having force organisation charts ment meta chasers could make stupid lists for small/avarage sized games, like bringing a baneblade or imperial knights or ork stompas to 1500 point game! Which is just stupid. Also ditching the rule that only troop units can hold objectives jist made it even worse!
'"There's no hobby here" says the guy in a rustic leather hobby apron and a pet rabbit named Pippin
I know this isn't the drive of this video, but I would love a series covering the things someone would need to know to 3D print that you learned in a month. You've got a whole bunch of 3D printers you can demonstrate in from different manufacturers, you have clearly mastered trouble shooting, and have a great way of presenting information. I think my fear of all that trouble shooting is the thing that puts me off the most as someone who doesn't enjoy that at all. If you did, I sure would be tempted by that sweet sweet Sovol fdm printer....
Watch his other videos, there are several about troubleshooting and supporting files yourself
@@hyosworld109yes, but having them condensed into one video would be nice
This! He keeps saying how he learned everything in a month, but every other youtuber I see is still struggling to make it work after 5 years in this video's case. Idk, it feels very daunting to see so many professionals get it wrong.
That is the part that is so disingenuous about content creators in general. Nearly none of them are subject matter experts and even less actually come from a educators background or have infield experience as mentors. They basically present their experiences/processes as facts and that you can replicate them by just 'been like them' but its not true printing has far to many variables which are glossed over or just ignored and sadly often at the cost of the end user/viewer.
As has been the standard well before the internet "Caveat Emptor" beware the snake oil salesmen as they win even as you lose.
@@JawaBob
Depending on you're mindset 3d printing can seem very daunting I my self was very hesitant and am far from being technically minded but I bit the bullet with a very well priced fdm printer just a small one from kingron I think they are called and found I learned better by doing than just watching so my advise would be take the plunge on a cheap printer that has a good reputation and learn by doing as well as taking advice from the more knowledgeable on the likes of CZcams and you'll probably find out you're not as daunted as you thought you would be
I think people REALLY underestimate how much time and troubleshooting and researching the "do prints, have failures, correct for failures" actually takes. Even knowing what went wrong with a print can be hours or days of research, and multiple more print attempts to see if it was properly diagnosed and more to see if it was properly corrected for. That in and of itself is much more than most people do for dedicated pass times and hobbies. It's surmountable, but it needs to be surmounted.
I mean you act like you cannot find CZcams tutorials for the exact printer you have to almost eliminate the who "trial and error" phase...
@@CorrionReap And you don't consider that a hobby? Researching every issue you run into with your device, with your resin, etc? What is the limit of a hobby for you?
@@CorrionReap😂my dear sweet summer child.. if only it were that simple. Lol
@@colbybastian17if this is the definition of a hobby, then my lawn up keep is a hobby. It isn't.
@Adalon- So your position is that 3d printing has reached the point of saturation that it's a chore now? Even then, most people hire someone else to do their lawn work, or at most have a lawnmower. Anything beyond those basics would be a hobby to most people.
3D printing is indeed a hobby in itself for a lot of people.
Re: the original video's assessment that you'd need to print that kit 7 times - The cost of the printer is distributed (accounts would call it amortizing) across multiple prints. If each file costs $20, and printing it costs $3.50 per figure, then a kit costs $23.50. that's a savings of 37.50 over a box from GW.
We divide the cost of the printer ($200) and cleaner/drier ($150) by that and get 9 and a bit, so 10 kits breaks even. And if you print any single kit more than once, you're breaking even faster, because you don't sink another $20 to print it again, only another $3.50.
If you're printing a GW compatible army, you probably have a few kits of infantry you want 20 or 30 of, and could easily make use of the 100 minis needed to break even.
Time, as a factor, is probably a wash, with clipping, filing mold lines, and assembly for a box of 10 models being roughly equal to the time to clean the supports, set up the machine and so forth.
god dude, I'm 100% with you on cleaning up models and assembling them from GW, I play sisters of battle and the mould lines on all the infantry models are atrocious and take forever to remove. You'd think they were a kit from 25 years ago, not 5 years ago.
I spent 12 dollars and printed the entire marine side of the leviathan box.... pretty sure there is some savings there and the models are the exact quality of gws
You did not spend 12$. You purchased a printer and then spent time to slice/print/clean up the prints. You also spend time disposing of the printing left over in a responsible manner. Unless you dont value your time, and got a printer for free, it cost you more than 12$. There is also an underlying element here: if you printed the Leviathan box, you basically stole IP from GW. I have absolutely nothing against people printing proxies, but printing copies/scan and then complain about GW prices is a bit dishonest as the design and marketing is a huge part of their cost and when you steal their IP, you get it for free.
@AlainPilon I already purchased the box and wanted models to practice painting on, don't assume to know people's motivations.. I have had a printer for years and everything in life costs time it's redundant to say I spent time on my hobby
@@AlainPilon Wow, being a little pedantic there, aren't you? As well as rude by, basically, calling the poster a thief? Time, as a resource, is a given especially considering the hours in the same equivalent for sprues vs printed.
Also, printers are not quick disposable items. We don't, generally, get a new printer for each new collection or game we play. There is no need to factor it in once you used it, but if you do factor it in it is based into the savings.
Since you brought up costs, there is NO reason why a decade old unit of 5 (4 knights plus one upgraded), in a defective resin material costing under 2 bucks to pour a batch, should be sold at 120. These were based on the last time I wanted a unit of 10 Blood Knights for my VC list. It would be 360 for a single 10 man unit. I could get a new printer, resin, all supplies, increased electricity prices, and throw the printer away afterwards for that single unit.
@@AlainPilon CZcams keeps eating my comment with a mathematical breakdown, but tl;dr is *the more part you print, the more you can save.*
It is a fair point to consider the overhead for the actual setup in the model production, but you also have to consider that every print that costs $12 vs. $125 closes that gap of that initial overhead by over $100, and eventually you do start saving money. The proxies for tanks, for example, can cost you $20 to print versus $175 for the GW officials: print 5 or 6 tanks, and you spent less on a printer and materials than you would just buying the official models outright. Plus, you get to print as many copies of the models you like (say, for practice paints), print custom pieces to personalize your models, and can also print more than just Warhammer minis.
If you're only printing a few pieces or models here and there, it's absolutely going to be more cost-effective to just buy from GW direct. However, the printer gives you more flexibility beyond just Warhammer, and every print you do pushes the favor on cost-benefit further into the printer's favor.
@@AlainPilon lol talking about stealing of IP when it comes to GW is a bit ironic when warhammer universe is riddled with copies of other IPs. Dune comes to mind, the Alien universe as well and dont even get started on "Sly Marbo".
I think the biggest thing GW has that might be the end of it is how they are doing their best to drive people into buying from elsewhere with their constantly increasing prices.
Regarding the bookstore comparison, one of the largest bookstore chains in the US died when the kindle and competitors came out.
This is what got me into printing 3 years ago havent the only thing I got from GW since was the HH starter set most of my armies are printed off for them or mix of the kit with bits printed off but again mostly whole prints.
Its not just GW though. This is just inflating hitting everything, but GW's marketing tries to get ahead of it. Anything of comparable quality is the same price. Marvel CP: $40 MSRP for 2 minis. Bigger single minis cost the same. I have 2 stores selling Infinity, and their kits can be $310 for 27 minis and a rulebook. The minis vary in size, the largest being ~4.5" tall roughly, and the smallest basically being a 0.5" gaunt little human. This is how it is in the US anyway. I have 4 LGS around me and shop them all for the cheapest stuff.
Making these things is just expensive now. GW makes the mistake of trying to predict inflation and tends to be the first to increase, but their prices are pretty much in line with the market (Edit: Excluding Forgeworld. Their prices are crazy). The only time you get cheaper is if you buy from Mantic or Wargames Atlantic or Warlord. Their minis are fine, but they are smaller and very clearly of a lower quality with less options.
While the bookstore thing is semi accurate they were just a retail store and were not based on their own products. So there are many more variables there when comparing it to GW. Kindle may have been the catalyst but it was already dying because so few people read books anymore was what actually killed them not the digital version.
To me its eye opening when amazon has same same product 100 dollars cheaper which is nuts since GW makes it but they cant do better than amazon
Where these hobbies really shine is when they come together, anyone who's ever built a custom chapter with official models and a handful of 3d printed bits to really add character will know that they have something truly baroque and personal. It's a shame this is the most pircey option but its helped with the cost barrier to entry constantly being lowered by the market price of 3d printers.
My first printer was a creality halot one, and it was damn near perfect out of the box, and the halot box slicer was easy to use. Eventually wanting something bigger I got a Saturn S and same thing, easy to use right out of the box. I had no printing experience coming into this side of the hobby but it took very little effort to get good at it.
I would say 3d printing is a hobby in itself You could very much like miniature painting and building but hate 3d printing. It's definitely an adjacent hobby and I could understand how you would say it is not separate as I would also not call going to the store and buying models a separate hobby but 3d printing is not for everyone though most could probably tolerate it at least and some like me love it I have even made my own models in blender and paint them. So basically for some 3d printing is a chore for some and a hobby for others.
Your not wrong it's really easy to see people presenting 3D printing as harmless, cost effective and time saving this channel after all tactility says so all the time.
But it's got a big foot print, the lead times are not small and the learning curve isn't the steepest but it's certainly still real and possibly costly.
I personally hate the process of supporting, min maxing my print plate and then hoping I made no mistakes on the hour + on the PC that might see me going straight back to do it again. That's without factoring failure/cleanup something that just doesn't happen with normal model distribution often.
Misplaced, mispacked or failed caats are rare in my experience with 20+ years and 1000's of plastic, (cast) resin and pewter under my belt. I can count on one hand the number of times I've contacted a store/manufacturer as I didn't get something fit for purpose.
if you want to argue like this then mini painting, mini building and actually playing the games are also "a hobby in itself" you could even go so far as claiming using an airbrush "is a hobby in itself". a 3d printer is a tool not a hobby and while complex its also a very versatile and powerful tool. and that is coming from somebody who spends more time printing than painting and playing btw.
@@KT-pv3kl I would actually agree that these are All sperate hobbies they are commonly tougher but there are people who do exclusively one. There are people who only buy pre primed and built models and just paint them never to play. There are also people who just play and have others make and paint their models. And there are diorama builders who just build models. Air ing is not exclusive to minuter painting plenty of artists use it on canvas or for graffiti. Anyway It doesn't really matter as it's all a matter of opinion I'm just saying that not everyone is willing to pick up 3d printing as it is a thing that takes effort of its own.thanks for the friendly discussion your opinion is completely Valid too.
A good discussion. Thank you.
3D printing is a separate hobby, unto itself.
The upfront cost is daunting, but the satisfaction of making your own is substantial.
Customization possibilities abound.
I have been at it over 20 years.
It's beautiful to see how things have progressed.
Best,
JBR
GW have made the hobby insanely expensive. I use to be able to get a sizable army for 500. Now, I'd have to spend double if not more. I was looking at expanding my armies and realized I can get a resin printer, all the accessories, and still come out cheaper.
@@DesolateControl Indeed, the GeeDubz pricing has gone well beyond any common sense. I feel like we are simply being fleeced.
Thus, 3D printing to the rescue.
@@johnbearross Absolutely. I would rather put $200 towards a printer then a Combat Patrol.
daunting?
mate a standard current gen 4k printer costs less than a 40k leviathan box heck its costs less than a single imperial knight if you shop for used ones or discounts.
@@KT-pv3kl lets not talk about last years Christmas Imperial Knight box prices *sniffle*
All people comparing prices between 3d print and physical should put glue, pincers, files and all consumables to the bucket too then
you need all of those tools for both resin and plastic miniatures
This reminds me of a video a saw about how much it costs to make an army MSRP straight from GW and some armies are $1 per point.
Last edition flayed ones were $3 per point at one time. It was ridiculous
They really beat the poor ad mech players into the ground.
As a total newb and completely ignorant to how warhammer tabletop works, can you explain why and how this is bad?
@@Xxgxxaxx the standard game size is 2000 points
@@Daedric1260 ……ah
In my experience the resin printer was the plug and play, while the filament was a headache to get working properly.
Also in my experience, most people thing this stuff is as easy as using an inkjet printer (which was mentioned in the vid), but it isn’t without its learning curve. I view the printers as tools that supplement other hobbies the same as my table saw to woodworking. They need maintenance and care, but if you understand what makes them tick it will be easy to diagnose issue and resolve them quickly.
As to the death of the big games companies, I agree that they aren’t going anywhere. But, more and more of these companies are putting out rules about proxi minis and official play. From a Star Wars Legion point of view, they don’t have the unit variety as something like 40K, so using my printer I’ve been able to print lots of proxi’s to make my army look great.
There is an up front machine, maintenance and consumable cost of course, but it does equal out. $45 plus tax for a core trooper squad of storm troopers or print 6 or more unique squads for under $45 plus $10 for files. It doesn’t take that long to make the printer cost become a wash if your invested in a certain game.
Great video bud and no shade to Play on. I love their stuff too, but that video seemed more of a back track to not bite the GW hand that gives them free stuff after the titan video.
Great video. Just wanted to chime in with one small thing. At about the 28min mark you respond to the comment about the convenience of going and picking up a box vs the work of going through the printing process. And whether or not printing a mini or clipping it off sprues etc is more work and / or time consuming. Regardless of whichever each person prefers in that regard I actually think the much more important point of that comparison is availability. Because even if you prefer and find it much more convenient to just go pick up the official box if that box is SOLD OUT for a Year in your entire country that's definitely not more convenient lol.
Hey your videos on supports changed EVERYTHING for me with my printing! Once I took the time to really sit down and work out how to apply everything you were discussing (then learn how to adapt that to different sized supports) I was off to the races with really good amateur sculpts with no supports! Figuring out how the prints deformed with improper supports informed my placement and Lychee's updated optimization really helps to speed everything up by just optimizing the supports I manually added. I think it really must be said that confirming a level bed after any breakaway print failure will DRAMATICALLY improve your success rate!
As someone who both 3d prints and purchases 40k minis, I tend to agree with Nick here. I think the learning curve, initial and upkeep cost, and amount of troubleshooting easily puts 3d printing into the “hobby” side of things.
Every honest person would agree with that. The fact this whacko couldn't even be honest is sad and scary
@@leseanmccoy4514 I agree, also him saying he wouldn't have bought models off GW anyway was just bullshit, he even pulls out a fairly modern kit from GW 2/3rds of the way through the video when he's talking about convenience. Like, we get it, GW is expensive, if you don't want to spend that money and would rather 3D print as an alternative, that's fine, but don't lie to yourself and you viewers saying GW wouldn't have gotten money off you anyway lol.
On the costs aspect I'd add that in any group of players, only one needs a printer for the whole playing group to benefit.
Not just in terms of cost but also the learning investment too.
I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more gaming clubs or hobby shops offer it as a service.
That's what I did, I bought an X1C, K1 Max and Saturn 2, and I've been printing terrain and minis for my play group basically non stop for like 6+ months.
I'd presume hobby shops dont do it cus they are worried about getting either sued by gm (or jsut blocked from stocking their stuff) if they do it too publicly.
I gave my local hobby cafe by old printer in exchange for a Bolt Action US army starter box I had ordered from them. They tell me that they print off minis for D&D all the time now. However, they refuse to print anything that could be construed as similar to something they sell, like alternative 40k models or anything historical that could be gotten through Warlord Games via the cafe.
Other hobby shops probably have the same limits so this is probably why they haven't jumped on the wagon.
Yeah, any IP violations are easily prevented with a simple policy such as that...
I dunno, maybe it's just that it represents too much extra hassle for most hobby shops. The only one near me that isn't GW looks like it's struggling enough that dedicating the time and energy and space needed is too risky.
I mean I've seen gaming shop 3d print Terrain, get lasers for Terrain. I think most try to stay clear like was said above. Tho non gw shops seem to be infinity more ok with you using proxies. Cause even with the 3d printers some stuff like in the tyranids, still make sense to buy.
As a guard player, 3d printing lets me have really customized different regiments that GW DOES NOT offer... it also lets me do something wild like having each of the regiments i'm building/painting have unique looks on their vehicles and i think it adds to it a lot. My cadians are the vanilla boys with the GW standard look...
Gonna have to HEAVILY disagree here honestly. I was NOT downloading and printing space marines within 5 minutes of owning my resin printer.
It was Tau! (Great video, fair/measured response).
3D printing, especially resin printing, isn't for everyone. Everyone is going to have different hobbies and things they want to do, sometimes scraping mold lines and cutting sprues off pricier models appeals more than removing supports, cleaning, and curing.
I have a mix of official and printed models, gives the army a way more unique feel, and with it getting cheaper I hope more people at least give it a try!
😂
@@OnceinaSixSide Also gonna strongly disagree here honestly as well , it was the guard .. GW I want my old regiments back !
To echo a few other comments, one of the big reasons I don't have a printer is space, I just simply don't have the room for a printer, wash/cure station etc.
I also don't currently have a personal laptop, so I've nothing to run any slicer software on.
Ignoring those two aspects, if I did have a printer, the only things I'd print from say GW are models they no longer sell, I've recently had a print done of a model that's OOP. But otherwise, I'd buy the official products. What I'd like a printer for is the array of amazing busts and other original pieces that numerous sculptors out there create.
3d printing is hard for amateurs, it definitely has a high learning curve. Once you get over that expensive hump, you’re good.
The elegoo resin is what I ended up switching to.
It stinks, it's harsher, but going from water-washable, it's been amazing. It is not only a massive improvement, it's also less prone to failure.
Water washable is nice on cleanup, but definitely not worth the lower quality and failure rate.
as an Elegoo owner, yeah I guess they're nice when they "just work" but the one I got "just doesn't work". First month I had it, LCD died and had to perform major surgery on the thing. after that still didn't work right. months later it still didn't work right and it took threatening to reverse charge through Paypal to get Elegoo to replace the unit. The replacement they sent isn't great either, won't stay leveled and currently sits unused.
Edit - I definitely consider 3D Printer to be a seperate "hobby" as you have to go on an entire journey of making it work, dealing with an entirely unhelpful and aggressive community who will gatekeep and scream "leave the hobby" at anyone they can, and dealing with less than helpful Chinese makers.
I got the thing because I saw a lot of cool models that I wanted to paint that I still can't paint because the printer I got can't actually print them.
For me (I’m 49 and from the UK) I’ve seen the barrier for mini’s go from having the option of walking through a set of gw shop doors and being able to buy their lead cast, then plastic products (which are great let’s not lose sight of that), to having the “same” army, and be able create my own games and figures that rival the quality and content of pro’s and being able to sell them either physically and/or digitally, that will balance around the price of a painted 1500point army. For the cost of a good resin printer £200, a 3d scanner £300 (I’ve got an openscan pi or learn how to digitally sculpt in blender for£0), an a4 laser printer £100, and with some imagination you can create your own commercially viable grimdark universe (I’ve yet to crack that bit lol). That’s insane
this was one of your best videos, really good break down of the video and got your thoughts across
For anyone wanting a direct comparison on the price between buying from gw and making your own (assuming you do not own anything and are willing to leave your prints in the sun and cure them yourself). I calculated about ~£240 for a quality printer, ppe, ventilation equipment and alcohol. Then for an army - assuming it is a large army (so this is higher end) about ~£20 per kg of resin makes for maybe ~£80 for 4kg of resin to make your full army. This totals ~£320 for the FULL price of STARTING WITH NOTHING. Then ~£40-80 quid every SUBSEQUENT army. I put one of my armies into the games workshop shop to see how much it would cost me and if I had NOTHING? I would save ~£480 QUID!!!!! £800 for the full army! I could rebuy everything TWICE for that price and still save money!
I'm actually using my printers to print for other people and offer a painting service so I can print and paint on the cash I've earned from my sales. It's the first hobby I've had that pays for itself.
I do agree he overblows how much money it is to get into 3d printing, but I do also think the money savings most people talk about aren't as big or realistic as many say. First, obviously in the long term 3d printers greatly out perform buying official models, but I think for many people the savings don't start happening until later than expected.
As an example situation, I've been building an Eldar 2,000 point army for 40k, I started in 2021 and have been on and off adding to the army when I have money to spare. In that almost 3 year span I have spent a little bit less than 500 American dollars getting my 2000 points list between both msrp kits and discounts at local stores through sales or general lower than gw pricing. This collection spans about 39 models with 10 unique units with some bigger things like tanks and large monsters. I also recently bought a mars 3 pro and wash and cure station on a small sale for about 400 bucks. This became a total cost of around 500 once I'd gotten additional items like gloves, alcohol, resin, and replacement feps for inevitable newbie screw ups.
To me what this means is for someone to have a 3d printer be worth it, specifically monetarily, a normal person doesn't get to that point until they've printed around 1 whole Warhammer army. An army that would be covered by about 7-10 different stls increasing the difference in price, potentially significantly for things like center piece models. Now, it's true you also get to print as many as you want of those units but 40k, and most games, don't really want you to repeat that many units. Like in the video, you could print 70 intercessors, but is the average player actually going to print and use that many? Additionally, I don't think there are that many people looking to print a whole 40k army, large portions definitely but I'd say the people who print whole armies are a minority behind people who want a couple alternate sculpts, extra bits, or need to fill holes for hard to obtain units. These are types of people who won't get as much value out of the 3d printer as fast.
As a result, to me the money saving side of 3d printing only makes sense to specifically people who already know they will not buy any other mini than ones that they print themselves, and even then it will be a while before they reach that point.
Just to be clear, I do still love the things my printer does for me just I don't think saving me money is really one of them and won't be for a while.
I don't have any problem with this type of highly constructive react content, your adding to the conversation in insightful ways and extrapolating on points raised with factual counters. Keep up the good work!
I recently got a Mars 3 Pro in that crazy black friday sale and i'm loving it so far. ive only printed a couple of things: a onepagerules mini cos i heard their presupports are great and a "Chief Space-Engineerat Shmikit Paw" that i did supports on myself. still not confident doing my own supports and i lost a bit of detail round his teeth. ive learnt so much from this channel in such a short space of time and can't wait to get a full 3d printed daemon army to contrast my official Necrons
I would absolutely love more videos like this, loved it and I want so much more
Absolutely loved and appreciated this video. Cheers!
Glad i cane across this. Reminds me to pick up the terrain you made
Also, GW is moving away from having tons of options, and also multiple poses. Aggressors are a good example, the new infernus marines, stuff like that. And what with 10th edition throwing loadout options out the window, 3d printing starts looking better even than it already has.
Absolutely this!
Thank you for your video! I literally fell in love in your content at first sight! Do you have video about super budget printers? Or can you recommend something for western european market? Thanks!!
To one of your points, most of my Dark Ages armies were bought mail order from the UK. It's now insanely expensive to get miniatures shipped from the UK to NZ. Local games companies are now starting to not stock anything but the most popular ranges as people have just stopped buying anything else with how expensive it has become once shipping and currency conversion factored in. But I can buy a litre of resin from Jaycar for ~$70, and I can buy amazing Saxon STLs from Medbury Miniatures (Aussie chap, does metals as well).
And to another point, I just fixed 17 broken Tau I bought dirt cheap for a couple of $ of resin. And I'm about to fix 10 Kroot for about the same price.
Sovol is the father figure i never had, thank you Sovol
my first printer was an anycubic photon and it was a nightmare i quickly upgraded to a new Mars 3 and it lasted me 3 years.
I'm pretty new to 3D printing so prefacing this with a grain of salt yadda yadda, but I do think 3D printing is a hobby. I mean, people take up stuff that requires less time, energy, expenses and still call themselves hobbyists of that particular thing. That said, like any hobby, it can get to a point where you feel comfortable in doing it and there's no real stress involved, which is awesome! It means it can be enjoyed far more comfortably, and really thats the goal of a hobby, right? To enjoy something simply because, well, its enjoyable. I would probably tie it in more with what aspects of 3D printing you're involved in, though. If you're into tabletop miniatures, for example, then 3D printing is just an extension of that particular hobby, but you could still call it one.
Great video as always, SixSide!
Some great points here!
Your Sovol ad was def worth watching. If I was in the need for a bed-slinger, I'd be tempted. Good features.
their music is a pillar on which whole worlds can be built! Nothing remains unchanged by the music of creation!
12:10 I think the issue with saying 'it just works' is bad just because of Tod Howard.
Man Sovol 3D printers sure are tempting!
I actually like videos like these now and then, in between your feature videos.
I bought both a resin and an FDM printer for my RC tank projects. There is just so much available as STL than stuff from major manufacturers.
This is a really refeshing video. Proving yourself to be one of the most grounded, sensible 3d printing/miniature channels around.
I certainly don’t think it’s a hobby in itself, but got to admit it isn’t exactly plug and play. To me it’s a tool, like an airbrush, that takes effort but adds a whole range of skills/techniques to your hobby repertoire. But no one would say “airbrushing is a hobby in itself”.
I have the Sovol SV06, SV06+, and SV07+, all of which are fully Kilpperized. In addition to my mini-printing, I also use these for real world engineering prints. My original Resin printer was the Creality LD002H and then grew into the Anycubic Mono X 6Ks.
Who isn't just using resin autosuppprts? Once you nail down your settings, autosupports work very well. I've been printing 5-6 years and can count on one hand the times I had to manually support resin prints.
Well.. I am actually now considering a Sovol... good job dude. That's effective advertising
Wooooo love the plug for Conjure Sculpt! Still using it for all of my models
I talked with a guy who works at a shop about 3D printing. We both agreed that if your buying like smaller kits or like a combat patrol. I have no problem getting them from a shop. 30-60 bucks occasionally. No problem But if I want 3 massive models say like 3 mauler fiends, mass carinfex, or a titan, a knight army etc etc. Hell yes print em. Because F that price point.
I agree with most of the points you make, but it is 100% a hobby. An airbrush is: put paint in, turn on, spray, clean. 3D printers involve so so many more steps and costs so much more.
I think the hobby aspect, is learning the ins and outs of improving prints and making files that are flawed work through knowledge and passion
good vid - there are many points in that video that are either misunderstandings of wilfully wrong, but I am sure they knew that!
The only issue I've been finding so far is space. There aren't a lot of places in my home that i could safely use a resin printer (if i was willing to buy an FDM printer, that'd be a different story) and the one place i want to set it up is filled with extra stuff that my family has stored there because I'm renting the place from my in-laws. I have no doubt that I'm going to absolutely have a hard time finding space for the armies I'll be printing once i finally get it set up... But for the moment, the struggle to just find a place with decent ventilation is my biggest hurdle.
Sovol really helped me out of a tight spot. I was mountain climbing in the Andes and one of my clips broke. Luckily their team was able to fly put and print a new clip on site.
I got into 3d printing to save a buck and I absolutely did.
1st I did not subscribe to 1000 patreons.
2nd I printed almost every model I bought
Yes I have spent thousands on resin and printers.
But I also have thousands of miniatures. (most are painted)
Yes if you just make 5 miniatures you're not going to save money.
But if you want any significant quantity or larger, more expensive models, you will save money.
When I started into 3D printing about a year and a half ago, I got one of those super cheap printers.
I started with an anycubic photon zero, and it cost me $100 new. It had a 500x 800 resolution, barely even a 1k, and it used the old LCDs where we needed a 10 to 12 second exposure rather than the two to three we see now. I treated it well, and it treated me to a solid year of great mini before I decided to upgrade
It can be a hobby in itself. There is a lot of nuance to 3D printing. It is misleading to say it’s plug and play. It’s more a skill you learn to expand other hobbies.
The one thing that stops me from getting a 3D printer is space. I don't really have any place to put it beyond my bedroom in my tiny little apartment and have no real way to deal with fumes or smells. Would love to be able to print my own bits and I've looked into various Elegoo printers but I don't exactly want to poison myself, y'know?
If GW didn't charge almost $100 AUD for a box of 5 Sororitas they might not be "at risk" as some people say. They keep jacking the price up and wonder why people turn to 3D printing
I play Bolt Action besides 40k, and I don't even bother printing minis for it, because minis are just plain cheap. 40 dudes for 35 euros? I am not bothering printing them! I have only printed stuff like base bits, artillery and some vehicles for BA, but mostly because no quality plastic kits exist for those. If 40k was cheaper, 3D printing wouldn't even be as big as it is.
I'm curious about what you think about Conjure Rigid. It's probably my favorite resin that has hard plastic like qualities, but Ive only used it on my 2k Mars 2 Pro and am curious how it performs on a 4k, 8k and 12k printer. 23:47
Definitely agree that resin printing is not a hobby while fdm printing is, and I think the reason for that is honestly like, super simple: You can watch the fdm printer print. You can sort of watch the resin one print, but its dunked in usually opaque liquid inside of a vat behind a big shield, and you don't want it to splash on you. I think that like fundamental difference in being able to watch the process is why one is so open to hobbyist investment interest and the other is not. I do both, not ragging on resin, if I could watch it print the same way I'd be all about it.
Thanks for the video.
I don't think that printing will kill a company, however I think it might kill certain product lines. For example there have been some discussions about the new Legions tiny Rhinos and how expensive they are. Also a lot of the things that were Forge World exclusive have astronomically cheaper print proxy options.
I like this video. I do actually like your normal videos better, but it's nice seeing a video like this just to change it up a bit. Plus, I think a video like this is a little easier to produce therefore can give you more videos per month. I absolutely love your videos and have watched basically all of them, but wish they came out more frequently. Maybe some content like this is a way to do that. 👍
The loss of sales due to 3D printing is definitely felt by these companies. I recently got into the larger, 1/4 figure painting. People who track the official, licensed sellers of these figures, such as Sideshow Collectibles, are showing up less and less at trade shows. Although its not wrecking the GW marketing team yet, it is hitting other companies in other mediums. Lastly, i've seen a single 32mm GW mini go from $15 a blister pack, to $45 a blister pack in the last 10 years. I'm pretty sure GW's operating costs haven't gotten high enough to justify that price increase. However, a dwindling market would. I think GW is spinning things to the shareholders, while upping the prices to keep said shareholders happy.
So I bought an Elegoo Saturn 8k beginning of 2023 and zooming through armies, friends, and coworkers, I have printed starter armies for about 8 unique factions. My own collection is at a point where I need to stop printing and just paint.
Bruh... this is so real! 😂😂😂 I caught the bug when my MIL accidentally bought a Sonic Phrozen 4k. Got it plugged up a month ago and subbed to OnePageRules Patreon. I have a bazillion Dwarves and vampires now, and I bought some blessed sisters to print. I went from no pile of shame to a massive hoard in like, 3 weeks flat. I gave some away at a dirty Santa just to reduce the overflow.
For one army of a well-known Fishmech creator, I have already saved money on my 1000pt Tau proxy army. I used my printer to add some ripper swarms to my Tyranids army and some bits for other forces. Sometimes you just can't get stuff without jumping through hoops or going proxy anyways. Some of the models from GW are sick, but when you can print a proxy model for $20 in materials and for the files that costs $100 per model, you quickly pay for the printer.
When my flatmate was running guard cavalry and the death riders are $55/model and he needed 36 of them....
And printing them was $5 for the files and like $1 per model to print its a no brainer
Something else that should be discussed is time. What is the prep time for a print from loading the file to cleaning the final product ready for painting compared to removing plastic/resin from sprues and cleaning them up?
Learning any skill that will prevent you from having to go through 3rd party services will always save you money in the long run. Especially when dealing
with insane prices like GW. The earlier you start the better.
I love how it was said back then: You wouldn't steal a car (download) and now: You wouldn't print an army (download)...
F**K YEAH I would do that
the army one
Props to Sovol for sponsoring good content. Unfortunately for Sovol, Bambu is eating everyone's lunch in the FDM space. Or at least taking up all the oxygen in the room. Other FDM printer makers really need to sell me on why I should choose them over Bambu. Maybe push the printers with large build volumes?
Does anyone know what apron he is wearing? was thinking about getting myself one similar for printing and painting.
Those Sovol printers look really nice, it really tempts me.
I like to imagine that even a man whom has no prior awareness of Warhammer could purchase a 3D printer, unbox it, and five minutes later find himself scrolling through seedy backalley websites downloading Space Marine STL files in a stupified haze.
Almost like the printer itself works some form of infernal hypnotism on the user.
I'm not sure why people view 3D printing any differently than incorporating an airbrush to your hobbying.
Thanks for the vid and the sovol hook up
I 3d print and my biggest warning is that the hobby will slowly toxify your printer room. I left a vat of resinous isopropyl alcohol for over a year and when I opened it, I had to ventilate the whole house! Pure mustard gas.
This is your second video I have watched that you have made this point. I have given up on printing minis after trying to get an Elegoo Pro 3 working for months. After hours of CZcams video tutorials, exposure tests and third party accessories the only thing I ever successfully printed were a set of skulls for basing. I consider myself technical (I am an IT consultant) and I've not run into another HOBBY that is this difficult to get into. Only one opinion here, but at least in my case this argument doesn't land.
I use Sunlu Tough resin and Ameralabs TGM-7. Both are almost as durable as GW plastics, actually more so in some edge cases. TGM-7 isn't actually that expensive if you buy the 5L canister of it, but just like one or two L bottle is too rich for my blood.
But yeah anyway for me, my resin printing is at a point where I have almost 100% success rate with prints. All my models are resin printed, I'm deep into digital kitbashing etc etc and for me, 3d printing has basically just replaced physical kitbashing and putting plastic kits together. It's not a hobby unto itself, it's just a replacement of something else I used to do.
Like the time investment is the same, and I still have plenty of multi-part, fully posable STL sets that need to be printed in parts and posed physically, so I get the whole "lego" aspect of the hobby whenever I put robots together, but it's just different type of fiddling.
Everybody had/has to learn 3D printing when coming into it, everyone has started everything from zero at some point.
The "experts" have all been noobs at some point, all of them. But they put in the time and effort to make themselves thrive and be the experts.
Applies to everything we do in life.
Sovol is the way. Sovol is love, Sovol is life. Skip the 07, get an 06 for a good price bed slinger with superior parts to the 07, or grab the 08 for Core XY goodness.
I have a 3D printer with a small 4k screen, anti-aliasing and fairly small layer height, and when I paint them I ABSOLUTELY notice Layer lines all over the model, people who say you don't are just straight up lying or blind.
I am interested in getting into the other side of it, I am a 3d artist and want to get into sculpting terrain to sell the .stl's. I have always loved painting miniatures but haven't played Wargames since high school. Does anyone have any advice on the types of Terrain pieces you would want, that aren't already, widely available? Are there any Pieces that could be used across multiple games that fit in anywhere? Are packs of Ruins, rocks, and trees something people want? Or does specificity matter?
Just hoping someone might have some input.
More faction terrain. I don't see a whole lot of that. I mainly see ruins stuff.
Faction terrain, or something that is just NOT ruins of a building. A downed battle cruiser as a battle space sounds amazing. Keeping it largely accessible to all armies is key in large adoption I feel.
Thank you, that's very helpful. I will do some research into the Factions and their respective terrains and get some ideas for a first project. @@DesolateControl
I am so hype that my buddy with a 3d printer can easily get his necron army without having to spend 600 dollars (without paint costs) and with a little thing called paying him I can easily get my own
I've just haul box of my new Sovol SV07 plus through the door, opened CZcams to check random video and this happened 😱
Love the video! I'm THINKING about getting into 3D printing for 40k/DND stuff, and I'm doing a lot of research to try and figure things out.
One thing that worries me is the "space" I would need to operate the printer. Hopefully I can find some more info on that and I can make it work.
Also, if 3D printing isn't feasible to me for whatever reason...where's a good place to get 3D printed proxies?
Thanks for all of the tips/info, got a sub from me, and keep up the good work!
I got into 3d printing almost 8 year ago, worked for a few different companies. Made electric Vehicles, helped convert massive concrete printer for buildings, SLA, FDM, little bit of everything. The newer FDM printers on the market now are insane. I still use an older craftbot 3 idex, doesn't have auto leveling which is such a critical feature. But when it works its a reliable workhorse.
Making non stop terrain for table top gaming and miniatures for D&D or Kill Team has been amazing. Buying rolls of PLA and making your own terrain is cheaper than GW terrain and miles more cost effective than buying Dwarven Forge. I have supported Dwarven Forge in the past and bought several GW terrain kits, but I've stopped completely bc of 3d printing.
1 friend learned 3d design to cutomize his own minis, 2 other friends that are only in the table top space bought SLA printers. I hope to learn blender next year to take my printing to the next level.
Its another hobby that enriches your table top hobby 1000x degrees.
The problem with GW is they have outpriced kids from playing these games unless they have a job or rich parents with a generous allowance. They are now reliant on middle aged men with disposable income spending silly money for plastic crack.
I love my printers and they are what got me back into the hobby after decades away. There is no way I would be painting again if I had to buy all my models from GW.
Side note, managed to visit Warhammer world in Nottingham UK a few weeks ago with a bunch of nerd mates, and bought nothing other than the ticket for the exhibition hall and a couple of beers. OMG if you ever have the chance to go, do it, but allow about 3 days to look round the exhibits. The scale of some of the dioramas is immense and the details and 'sub-stories' within the scene are mind blowing. Doing it wearing a T-Shirt that says I could 3d print that added to the day :-)
Not sure if think video is sponsored or not, but the next time I am buying a FDM printer; I think will really be considering a Sovol 3d!
Also I don’t think every video you make has to be a huge printing project. It’s great to get 2 videos from you in such a short period of time.