Estrangement 101: Helping Parents Reengage Their Kids
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 06. 2022
- For years, Lori Gottlieb has been addressing people’s relationship difficulties in “Dear Therapist,” her clinically astute Atlantic magazine column, and in her weekly podcast.
In a recent issue of Psychotherapy Networker Magazine, she offered her insight as to how therapists can navigate a particularly fraught relationship difficulty: estrangement between a parent and a child.
Join her as she continues the conversation with Psychotherapy Networker editor-in-chief Livia Kent. This conversation will cover family dynamics, the challenges of reengaging after estrangement, and how this work often involves helping the estranged parent process their own childhood pain.
Get FREE access to Lori's article, "Estrangement 101: Helping Parents Reengage Their Kids," and a discounted subscription to Psychotherapy Networker Magazine at psychnet.co/gottlieb - Zábava
My daughter has become the product of a bitter divorce where her dad used her as a pawn. She became very manipulative. She was traumatized by being put in the middle. It was heartbreaking to watch. I could not protect her from it. I even moved us 900 miles away to try to keep her from it. It didn't work. Now she has cut me off and blames me for so many things I couldn't control. She believes things about me that her father has brainwashed her into believing. She wants to believe the worst of me. I have apologized over and over for things that I did wrong and things I had no control over. I have begged her for forgiveness. Only to be met with "well I can't forgive you." I see absolutely no compassion in her at all. Now days if you want your young adult child to be in a relationship with you it has to be in their terms only. . As far as the forgiveness letter mentioned on this video. Been there done that. I begging for forgiveness over and over. . Nothing and I do mean nothing has worked. I have tried everything. I am in a support group and most of these parents have done the same exact same thing and nothing works. The adult child wants to hate the parents so they can use the parents as a scape goat for all of their problems. If I ever were to reconcile with my daughter it would completely have to be on her terms only and I would have to walk on egg shells the rest of my life. I am so exhausted physically and emotionally from trying so hard to be a good mom. If I could do it all over again I would have never have had children. They will never remember all the sacrifices and all that you did right. They will only remember your mistakes and they will be bombarded by social media, CZcams, Pinterest, tictoc etc. Supporting them cutting off their parents. If you do not yet have children consider this your warning.
Well said! I feel for you. It seems like this "i had a terrible childhood" story is used like a wildcard to use whenever they want a free pass from adult civilized behavior. They can scream, name call, swear,blame shift, lie publicly shame and hold a parent in contempt. It doesn't matter how many times you say you are sorry, show remorse, promise to do better, tell them how sorry you are for their "pain", no matter how much effort you make to connect and hear them yake inventory of your faults, you are held up to a saintly standard. You never get to ask for civil behavior. Why must parents be the expected humiliated dumping ground for years over mistakes and perceived slights that have been rehashed 100 times? This is toxic. The adult child gets a free pass to fixate and browbeat the parent over and over, indefinitely while never owning or investing any effort or consideration about anyone. Why must parents suffer silently in an adult relationship where they alone give but never receive any hint of mutual regard, civility and genuine care from adult children. It seems like a one sided shame show ran by the entitled, self centered, adult child.
Ellie, I’m so sad reading this, your story is almost identical to mine, minus the 900 miles. And I too wish I’d never had children. The pain is too deep and having one remaining child stay loving, in fact purchased their family home in the next street to me, see them all the time but I’m like you in this purgatory not seeing my other child. I love both my children more than my life, but my life is a living breathing hell. I feel you, and I understand you. Big hugs for the absolute sh*t we are forced to live in. X
@Ruby Church my heart breaks for you too. I have only made it this far by being in support group on Facebook. It's the only way I can withstand the pain.
You chose her dad right? I like how in the west, women never take responsibility for the men they choose to make a life with.
" The adult child wants to hate the parents so they can use the parents as a scape goat for all of their problems. "
^
That right there, would make me never want to talk with you again.
Estrangement is the best!
I whole heartedly feel this to my core. I so wish I’d never had a child. The pain is too much. Where do I find a support group?
Love the distinction between feeling compassion for a parent versus focusing on forgiving.
I had all the compassion in the world for my estranged son, for 12 years. He showed very little in return. He was always the one setting the boundaries with no respect for mine. I’m still here for him when he decides that he made the two biggest mistakes of his life by marrying the woman who turned him against his family, and him cutting his family off for her. She’s now out of the picture, but we’re all still here… waiting.
Estrangement is devastating to parents who were good parents. My son estranged from our entire family and his friends when he got married. His wife never wanted to be part of our family and she made his life hell until he walked away from us. We provided a good home, lots of love and no one who knows our son and our family would find a reason to estrange us. It is all because of a controlling spouse.
It's because of the way you treated him
I think in the case of that episode with the mother and daughter - the daughter didn't give that mother room or incremental steps likely because she likely didn't trust her mother's "new efforts" and it felt too scary for her to fully see or take in. That is a common response to trauma - there is a learned response not to trust love. That being said the daughter needs compassion too - for her own incremental steps towards trust. It is not easy to change those neuropathways. I feel compassion for both parties in these situations.
Forgiveness I'd a choice and necessary to move forward in the relationship or not!
After my daughter and her children were part of my every day life her whole life, she remarried moved hr away and I was replaced by her new motherbin law that lives close to her now, im extremely hurt and devastated
Cedar Creek Lake, Tx.
My 43 year old son cut me off after both his siblings died. He is my only living child. There was not abuse in his childhood. I was a single mom and grandparents were deceased. Please comment on the side of how a child can do this with no abuse? During the time he cut me off was a crisis with his 14 year old son. I supported him in the way he needed and requested. His wife wanted him to leave the relationship with his son. When the wife won, my son cut me off. So this has to do with pleasing his wife. I understand that the wife is the number one person. I'm not competing with her. But how can a son cut off a mother for the only reason that the crisis situation turned toward the wife and I was cut off. Please explain this insanity. My son and I did not have relationship issues prior to this event.
These kids are all about validation. If you can't support them fully, you are kicked out!
They did go over this. You just didn’t listen. Just like you didn’t listen to your child as to why
"was not abuse in his childhood. I was a single mom "
That is abuse.
@@anthonysullivan9697 lol judging by your attitude I can see exactly why you're an estranged parent...
Maybe there was neglect or other reasons for estrangement. I am sure it is your fault. You just can't see it.
Where's the link?
Hi @CJoyArt - sorry about that! You can access the free article and discounted subscription at psychnet.co/gottlieb
Your children are forward looking and want to get along with their mate or their own children first, just as we want to get along with them because they are our future
1
Adult children estranging from a parent for being a normal parent is like receiving the death penalty for spilling a cup of milk.
I hope parents stop using "the belt" and verbal tirades as a form of "discipline" on four year olds... Unfortunately, abuse has been normalized in our culture. Estrangement is the best!
Whatever
A belt I think would have prevented estrangement as children who lack discipline will also lack respect for parents. 4 year olds obviously don’t need a belt but definitely children need discipline to prevent this crap behavior in the future.
@@CentralPerspective-my2ev our case it’s the spouse
@@CentralPerspective-my2ev Well, after reflecting further, most of these estranged parents are from families they themselves destroyed through divorce. Is it really fair to ask a Child to care for his mother more than his father did or vice versa? To me, it seems pretty sick to say "You must love your mother more than your father did." Kids didn't chose their parents but their parents chose to make kids.
Also, I hope your employer gives you the belt every time you make a mistake at work. Or better yet, give your wife the belt every time she makes a mistake.. But no no, best just to do it to the kid who had no choice, was put there, and CAN'T defend himself. Your behavior sounds like that of a coward ~ the belt for the person who has no power to leave.
I told my two adult sons who cut me out of their lives and the lives of two grandchildren, that I am not waiting around for them to reconcile. I told them they are no longer part of my life. Period. Maybe if these narcissitic self-absorbed adult children realize that there is no "do-over" button, no open-door policy maybe they will stop this social catastrophe. If they burn that bridge., there is no going home.
You sound like a treat ;) Glad they cut you off!
Amen! They’re not allowed back in.
I’ve been studying this epidemic. One in five moms. Psychology is my passion along with tarot. There are so many groups encouraging this. It is an epidemic. A incredibly sad one. These kids will lose out from the betrayal and trust lost. I float around all of social media on trends in terms of emotional climates. This one is a earthquake. What many authors miss on the mark is anti social personality disorders. Incapacitated to truly bond. Brought on by outside triggers. Sociopathic people can end up that way by their peers/ school/ influence outside the family. Entitlement issues. Brain washing sites. Encouraging this scapegoating anyone who wants to hold them to higher standards. We have an epidemic of mental health disorders now. Thanks to social media and comparisons. Now blame mom and dad. The illusion that perfectionism can be had with full discarding the entire family unit and starting over with social services at their fingertips. Most psychological reason falls under schizophrenia and schizotypal, anti social, narcissism. Borderline personality disorder, sociopaths. Leaving “ empowerment”!! “ Not realizing. “ everywhere you go, there you are”. Now stuck. Wants to Hoover in. Wash and repeat with elder abuses. I’ve read stories where the parents land on “ the shoe is on the other foot”. Stay out! Some have moved and change their last name to avoid the child and the abuse. Financial, emotional, physical. I’ve read stories of parents who jumped through every hoop for the estranged child. Walked on eggshells around them. We can thank social media for this. We were warned. We have a generation of very sick kids. Raised by visual false narratives and comparisons. Breeding low functioning covert narcissism. Passive aggressive and scapegoating/ victim narratives. Pity plays. Weak generation. They were raised” everyone wins”! This too added to it. Failure breeds success. Hard knocks lessons. This generation is where’s my 🏆. We are all equal in talent etc. incredibly weak minded. Cannot handle defeat or how to communicate defeat. They go on a hate campaign can’t defend their thoughts. Because it’s a PROJECTION of themselves. My college kids talked about how much mental health was rampant in high school.
who puts them in these schools? ;)
the only epidemic is abusive parents
The only epidemic is the amount of abusive parents and families
Lady, you are putting all of the blame on the parents! What about when the children are narcissists and abusive like their father?
You cut someone off because they are narcissistic & abusive. Period. They treat Grandkids the exact same. I have never met anyone who regretted it,
narcissistic & abusive, the terms are the new "CATCH PHRASES" for any little thing you don't like. I disagree. Please define the terms through behavior.
@@anthonysullivan9697 No. No one tosses out the term Narcissistic for "any little thing you don't like". It's putting terms to behavior that causes damage to children. Until I heard the term 'Narcissistic Parent' I didn't have an explanation/description for what I experienced. In terms of behavior the biggest traits I experienced were the double standards and two sets of rules. Mom is allowed to yell and 'spank'/hit when you make her angry. You are not allowed to get angry because nothing she (or anyone) did warrants that response. Being angry is 'bad'. If you are 'bad' anything bad that happens to you/done to you is deserved. If something bad happens to Mom, she's a victim and deserves compassion. If the 'bad thing' that happened to Mom made her do something to you then it's not her fault and she deserves forgiveness. If she does something mean, punitive or abusive toward you, it was a mistake and should be overlooked. If you do anything to her that she perceives as disrespect then you are horrible, you did it with intent to hurt her, she doesn't have to forgive you, you don't deserve forgiveness because you did what you did with intent AND it is used as further justification for any unfair action behavior she perpetrates on you! You are completely and 100% responsible for your behavior/actions, even as a small child who lacks adult emotional regulation AND you are also 100% responsible for her behavior because she wouldn't have done what she did had you not **insert**. In other words, regardless of how abusive, dismissive and badly she treats you (including hitting, insulting and demeaning her child) she IS NOT responsible/accountable for her behavior. Nothing is ever her responsibility or fault. Oh and as a bonus, she will deny any and all bad behavior when confronted.
Child -- "You spanking/hitting me destroyed my self esteem, made me feel unsafe and made me terrified of your mood swings. I have C-PTSD because of your verbal and emotional abuse. My brain is baked because of constant fight/flight trauma responses as a child."
Parent -- "I never hit you! I don't remember THAT!"
Child -- "You used to brag about breaking a wooden spoon on my ass! What do you mean you don't remember and that it didn't happen?"
Parent -- "Well maybe if you weren't mentally unwell you wouldn't be making up things about how you think I behaved. You know I was a good parent. Look at all the good I did for you and the sacrifices I made." (this is gaslighting)
Narcissistic abuse by a parent is a subject that whole books have been written about. I have yet to meet anyone who claims it happened to them that doesn't have a list of experiences of seriously unhealthy behavior directed at them. Victims of this sort of abuse call out people who claim Narcissistic abuse over "any little thing" but the number of victims that represents is shockingly low. People who claim this type of abuse recognize other people who have suffered it and will reject those who clearly did not experience that type of abuse.
Lastly they also never apologize in a sincere way. "I'm sorry you feel that way." is their go-to as is, "Well, I said I was sorry, what more do you want???" or "I've apologized, although I really don't know for what..." or "I won't apologize for things I didn't do!" (their selective memory like the spanking example I gave) or "I apologized for anything they think I said or did..." are all huge red-flag indicators of a Narcissistic parent. They deny their bad behavior and a sincere apology is an admission they actually did do something wrong. They don't do wrong ever because in their own mind they are 'perfect' and if you (their child) weren't so flawed and broken you'd see and understand that instead of expecting them to be accountable for the things they say and do. Their abuse is all encompassing because it's not their behavior, it's their whole mentality. That's why walking away is the only defense and it's why true victims of this abuse don't regret the choice.
@@ellyk8834 I think you are wrong. If you review the list of narcissistic behavior, you will see a list of about 40 items. So if you have any one of these you are a narcisist. That pretty much covers ALL parents, and a lot fo kids as well. I just was sent the list a few days ago from my ED who has a Pych Degree. That list covers everyone I have ever known asn well as my kids, grandkids and the President of the United States. Let's not forget ELDERLY ABUSE by usinf grandhildren as pawns.
@@anthonysullivan9697 Narcissism exists on a spectrum which anyone who understands the subject material knows. Clearly you don't understand the condition at all but know enough to know I am wrong? Based on what? Your advanced knowledge of NPD, mental health issues and other personality disorders? Clearly you wouldn't be able to identify emotionally healthy behavior from unhealthy so your OPINION that I am wrong is tragically humorous.
Being denied access to anyone's children is not abuse even if they are biologically related to you. Only a true Narcissist would think being denied something they want (access to other peoples children) equals abuse toward them.
Now, if you want to explain in detail what I said that you deem is incorrect feel free but the old "You're wrong. I'm right." while demonstrating you are clearly uneducated on the topic and while displaying unhealthy mentalities is wholly uncompelling to me. I'm guessing your daughter sent you the list because she sees your Narcissism as well.
As an adult who grew up with a very very abusive mom. I promise you you will regret cutting off your mom. If she has apologized, if she is trying to do better you will regret it badly. It will really screw up your life way more then keeping her in your life but having boundaries that's she is aware of.
How about stop using the term Narcisist? There are thousands of CZcams videos coving all aspects of this behavior. This is like brainwashing our children into believing their parents are abusive and horrible people. It's simply a way to divide families.
The last thing Narcissists want is their behavior explained and highlighted. No one should be educating children on the tactics, mentalities and behaviors abusers employ. The only people who should be brainwashing children are their Narcissistic parents... It doesn't divide families. Abusers and how they treat their children divides the family. Blaming the victim and those that speak on the subject is the hallmark of a Narcissist. Don't want to be exposed as a toxic Narcissist? Don't behave like one or be one. Problem solved.
YES!!!!!!! Totally agree! Thank you thank you thank you for saying this. Its seems that the millennial generation are all licenced psychologist. All they have to do is get on CZcams or Pinterest or tictok.
@@elliemathews6884 It's easy to recognize abuse when people educate each other on what unhealthy, abusive and Narcissistic behavior looks like. Anyone who disputes that others', at any age. can learn what dysfunction looks like is gaslighting. Abusers gaslight constantly and they ramp it up when they feel threatened and/or when exposed. All these books and videos are shining light on abuse and emotional dysregulation. And you know who hates and tries to discredit this fact? Abusers. I for one am glad that abusers are being exposed and that some just out themselves with their red flag mentalities and beliefs. I'm 46 so not a Millennial...
It sounds like you’re a narcissist. Only a narcissist would get upset over that term being used.
@@lizakabe8116 That's funny! I don't believe that's on the list of the symptoms.
How about the child is a spoiled entitled never wrong child that always blames the rest of her family as the mom I feel better without the mean judgement and negativity in my life.
THANK you. We live in a society that supports this.
Yeas I agree , there need to be two different distinctions between children that are out of control abusive blaming ect you can blame that on culture for some but there also the opposite where the parent is damaging and maybe they don't relise it but there needs to be different distingtion as I think these are the two main reasons between parent child estrangement and there seems to be a battle on these comments between hurt parents and hurt children and its kinda toxic like who more of the victim game, I just think they are two very different situations and need to be addressed under a different catorizeations
Comments like these only ever prove why there is disconnection or complete estrangement from adult children. This is a HORRIBLE attitude to have as a parent. Hello?? It's OBVIOUS why you're estranged with such a horrendous attitude towards you child. It doesn't matter what they've done. Your JOB as a parent is to see the GOOD in them, not this abusive judgmental shaming attitude. Terrible take. Wake up
@@hawkspirit8021 These comment sections are mind blowing. I hope this generation can rid the future of the "might makes right" plague of the boomers. Could you imagine being a "dependant" on Toria?
Toria is probably a single mom who blew up her own family lol. (unconscious, destructive, selfishness)
@@hawkspirit8021 what if you have seen the good in them for years and years and you still see it but despite all the good you see, they're treating you with contempt, namecalling, gaslighting, raging, stonewalling. Parents can be abusive, and this is a terrible thing for any young helpless child to be subject to and i wish we had better social programs in place to make sure people Were better, financially, emotionally, intellectually prepared prior to becoming parents. There are also some adult children who abuse their parents.
these kids expect a participation trophy or they will leave the team.
I'll tell you right now what's the most effective thing any parent can do, and it won't take but a minute of your reading time. 4 things: Empathy. Respect. Listening. And not judging. That's it. That is what will be most effective. The problem is the parents that are incapable, unwilling, or unaware that these are the things that are needed. No excuse making, not demanding "well my child should do it too" - No, stop that, YOU are the parent, this is your JOB, to see the good in your child, to honor them ALWAYS, to respect them ALWAYS, to LISTEN, and just to EMPATHIZE with them sometimes. Doesn't have to be in every moment of every conversation that you're expressing empathy, but try it out at least once or twice sometimes! But no, how many parents insist on criticizing their child, shaming them, putting them down, calling them "spoiled' and "entitled" and unworthy of respect. Hello? That attitude is exactly the thing both causing the estrangement and keeping it going.
So there you have it, 4 things to do right now, the single fastest and most effective way to reengage and reconnect with your child. Empathy, Respect, Listen, and Not Judging.
You're welcome.
I'm sorry but I've done all of those things and nothing has worked. Listening, having compassion, not judging and respect though totally underserved has done nothing to change anything.
@@elliemathews6884 are you divorced? Have you offered restorative justice? IE: if you have done damage.. have you offered to pay for both yours and the child's therapy for the damage you may have caused?
Children are biologically programmed to love their parents. So, estrangement is a lot like cutting off your own arm because it's got the rot. No one wants to cut off their arm.
The reason why I left the west, is because Americans love divorce more than their own families. But that is a topic for another time.
I am respectful and loving of my children but they have been extremely disrespectful and verbally toward me over the years just like their narcissistic abusive father. So no Empathy, Respect and Listening doesn't always work.
@@debthornton1129 So you chose a narcissistic and abusive man to create life with AND be their primary father figure and masculine role model? I'm sorry, that sounds like you are disrespectful and lack empathy to the point where your choices and selfishness tortured your kids". Your projection is right in front of everyone.
Seems like all the boomers "Married a narcissist".
Then they are like, "Why do my kids not want to talk with me anymore? I was so nice!" No accountability and/or empathy from these people.
HEY GEN ALPHA! LEARN FROM THESE HORRIBLE EXAMPLES OF DESTROYED FAMILIES! WOMEN! TIME TO WARD AND JUNE CLEAVER UP! YOU DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE THESE DESTRUCTIVE PEOPLE AND IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS! AND NO YOU DON'T GET TO BLAME THE FATHER IF YOU CHOOSE A BAD MATE! (look up the cleavers, a good woman chose a good guy back in the 30's) LEARN!
Also boys, if you need to get laid, just be an assh**e, that's what these modern women like and they don't deserve respect. Proof is in the pudding, sadly.
@@debthornton1129 Well then the question is how/why did you let your relationship become so disconnected?