Alan Wake 2 PC Path Tracing: The Next Level In Visual Fidelity?
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- We've established that Alan Wake is a stunning game both on consoles and on mainstream PCs, but what if you want to push up to the next level and tax your GPU with high-end path tracing features? In this extended video, Alex goes in-depth on each and every RT feature in the game, checks out DLSS ray reconstruction and discovers Remedy's chosen fusion of RT and non-RT lighting. Rounding off, there's some optimised settings if you're looking to get some semblance of 'bang for the buck' from the menu of ray tracing options.
Optimised RT settings, chosen for RTX 3080 and RTX 4070:
Direct Lighting: On
Ray Reconstruction: On
Indirect Lighting: Low (4070) or Off (3080)
Transparency: Low (4070) or Off (3080)
Frame Generation: On (4070)
For general optimised settings (in addition to the above or without RT altogether):
Post-Processing: Low
Texture Resolution: Medium or Higher
Texture Filtering: High
Volumetric Lighting: Low
Volumetric Spotlight Quality: Low
Global Illumination Quality: Medium
Shadow Resolution: Low (or High if you can afford it)
Shadow Filtering: Medium
SSAO: On
Global Reflections: Low (or High if you can afford it)
Screen-Space Reflections: Low (or High if you can afford it)
Fog Quality: Medium
Terrain Quality: Medium
Far Object Detail (LOD): Medium
Scattered Object Density: Medium
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00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:06 Ray Traced Direct Lighting
00:05:44 Path Traced Reflections
00:11:49 Path Traced Global Illumination
00:19:16 Path Tracing Idiosyncrasies
00:23:03 Ray Tracing Optimised Settings
00:27:57 DLSS Ray Reconstruction
00:30:08 Conclusion - Hry
I walk around Bright Falls and I feel like im in 2030 with how good some things look. Then I see two NPCs talking to each other with super low quality faces, both wearing identical outfits. And then Im instantly snapped back to 2010.
yes i think they scrimped a bit on the npcs. Most of them are static and repeat their actions. I wish it was more spontaneous like GTA.
Using the "Control" location card font and sounds for your text introducing the name of the effect was such a wonderful and intelligent way to shout out your appreciation of Remedy's ongoing commitment to graphical excellence. Great work.
...and the Max Payne BGM
Control introduced those texts, but Alan Wake II uses them as well for every single chapter introduction. So it's more to stay in theme with the game that referencing other games.
It's really funny that the noise from the software RT gives the illusion of additional surface details. It reminds me of when Id Software, after demands for a "high-res texture patch" from fans, added a noise grain filter to the virtual texturing system in RAGE and called it "detail texturing".
Well to be honest noise (grain) adds “detail” that might be fake, but still looks great.
@@marrow94 Sometimes! I think it looks AWFUL in RAGE though. You can actually tweak the size and intensity of the noise pattern with console variables. Reducing the intensity helps, but personally I think the game still looks great even today without it. Plus, it runs in 8K at 120 FPS locked even on RTX 2080!
@@azazelleblackRage was designed for 720p, just like how Doom 3 was designed for 480p
@@marrow94 You think so? I found it super distracting. Enough on some materials that I wanted to play with RT on just to eliminate that issue.
Hmm, that's got to be resolution-dependent, right? Because at 1080p it really is just noise.
This game is SO ahead of it's time. I can't wait to see it in 10 years. I just played Quantum Break and now that it actually runs right it looks SO GOOD.
Who else wants a path traced remaster of Quantum Break?
I expected a great looking game with Path Tracing after all I heard and how good control was back in the day, but the thing which impressed me the most is how good it looks when RT is off, I mean wow Remedy really hit the nail in both classes, fantastic.
It's a shame about the screen space reflections. Unreal engine has solved those issues by applying additional trickery through Lumen. You can have those mirror effects and have reflections of occluded objects. You can even have a fake umbra to make shadows softer the further they are from the object. It's all doable without raytracing, it's just a matter of devs implementing it properly by accounting for all the errors instead of just using one blanket solution.
@@Emucratic Lumen uses ray tracing so no, it's not doable without ray tarcing.
UE is still completely unfit for games, can’t even use CPUs properly, maybe next decade.
@@George-um2vcYour statement is paradoxical considering how many games were made in UE and how many more have been announced
@@ThunderingRoar I don’t think you know what the word paradoxical means, yes many games have been made, and many more are on the way, all with poor CPU utilisation bottlenecking performance.
Tbh AW2 is IMO one of the best examples of how amazing games can look.... without hardware RT.
Unlike some titles where RT is complete game changer I feel in AW2 RT and PT is more of a "cherry on top" effect and game looks outstanding even without those effects.
Completely agree. And if we could have separate settings to toggle RT reflections only, like in Control, i think it would be an improvement. Path tracing is too expensive, while SSR mixed with the software RT is both expensive and gives an even worse result. for now, my 3070 is perfectly adequate for everything 1440p, but playing with RT in 2 games this entire year, so i can't justify upgrading to 40s cards. Remedy has to improve on animating faces and expressions however. I feel like they are stil lacking in that department. Need to consult with Naughty Dog :)
Doesn't look better than Tlou2, Forbidden west, Forza Horizon 5, Hivebusters, Mortal Kombat 1 etc. without the raytracing and image quality is horrible let's be honest.
Actually, ray traced shadows are on unattainable level compared with rasterization. But indirect lighting indeed can be simulated quite good without hardware RT
@@gabber_I think disabling RT and enabling the transparency setting gets you RT reflections only, that’s what I did with my 7900 XT where path tracing is just too expensive
@@vandammage1747 Disagree. Lightning and models alone look better than TLOU2. Models in ND games only look amazing in cutscenes but look at them in photo mode and you'll see how much detail is lost.
Pathtraced shadows and those soft contact shadows are sooo delicious.
Back in the mid 90s I was in college learning about ray tracing and how it will change things, it's so nice to see it finally available. But still a shame that 99% of players will miss these details. DF you are doing such a service to all the devs out there who make this work.
In 1980's it took up to hours to render a Ray Tracing image on AMIGA 500, but a lot faster with 68030.
They are but games should be gameplay first...visuals are one thing but gameplay is key.
@@davemeredith6964You're right, but you also need to remember that the art team and design teams are separate. Upping visual quality doesn't take away from gameplay unless we're talking about shifting funds around. Ultimately, visuals in games all come down to the proficiency of the artists and programmers working on the art team.
Yep, that's the problem. You loose so much performance, but what you get nearly unnoticeable without close inspection. Like when I am switching full RT\PT on in this game I am just getting same good quality picture but can't say if there is any difference. Remember that empty house in AW2 first location, I got inside with full PT on and was like "wow outside light gets inside very realistically and flashlight also looks pretty nice. I walked around paying attention to all the small detail, then I switched RT off and... it's all look the same! Like I know there got to be some changes but it looks so good without RT that I have to look at direct comparison picture by picture to notice all this stuff. So I am just keeping it off cause of the framerates. So yeah, from my perspective it would be much better if all this computational power would be used somehow to actually improve gameplay, not just small details that are left unnoticed mostly.
@@xerxeslv Boring gameplay has nothing to do with too little computing power because of RT. AAA developers are simply usually not willing to experiment. You have to look into the indie scene for that. And if graphics aren't that important to you anyway, you'll probably be happier there.
One thing I noticed is that the CRT monitors in the game do not emit light. They don't illuminate the room they're in and they aren't even visible in darkness
I think we are looking at what technology is being used rather than how fun a game is to play...a guarantee for failure for gamers at least.
@@munkeymajic Sir, this is a Wendy's.
(aka, this channel's whole point is to examine the visual tech behind games, so not sure what you expect)
@@munkeymajicHuh???
@@munkeymajicMan's bitching that we focus too much on the technology on a channel that's dedicated on the technology.
They do emit light
Remedy’s art direction is just stunning. Agree that the technical aspect of the visuals is incredible as well, but the artistic aspect is even more striking. This game will look great even after 10 years.
It will look better because then we can afford a gpu that will max everything out but 10 years is a lot!
And tech is growing exponential so we will have games that look so much better. Just compare this game with something that looked great from 10 years ago
@@HappyDude1 I agree but my point is tech could be outdated but art design can’t. This game’s graphical design has a lot of artistic flavours, it’s highly stylistic. Same thing with Control. Same thing with Red Dead 2. Another game with outstanding art direction is Dirt 3 which is 10 years old but looks beautiful, even today. Creating realistic graphics is easy today as there is always references available in real life. But those realistic graphics will look like shit 5 years down if they lack any artistic flavour. Games devs need to go the extra mile to give a unique look to the game to make it stand the test of time. Graphics will always feel outdated after some time but graphics with strong art direction will remain timeless. GTAV was praised on how realistic it looked in 2015. Then, only 4 years later, I saw comparisons to other technically superior games mentioning how unrealistic the lighting is. But there’s a huge factor which contributed in the way GTA V looked and will look. That’s ART DIRECTION. GTAV still looks beautiful and extremely unique in terms of its colour palate which gives an impression that it looks better than the new saints row technically, the reason being shitty art direction on Saints Row. Skyrim is technically the worst game ever made. But that dint stop it from being as iconic as it is, a massive contributor is amazing Art Direction. Uncharted 4, TLoU2, Dragon Age Inquisition, etc are more examples. In simpler words, art makes technology timeless. (My own words btw lol)
@@akshaydabhadkarofficial5104
Ow yes its like like A BMW M3 E46, which is technically a disaster, but it looks timeless. 😁 i think the art of bioshock still looks amazing and thats very old now
@@HappyDude1 yup. Exactly.
I am okay with what you say under circumstance that this game will be a very rare exception for at least next 5 years, it is good to push boundaries and improve on visuals, but not if most devs will try to take advantage of it and we will have to play upscaled games with 30FPS on average. I'd rather play on low settings, but native 4k. I have no problem with others seeing it differently as long as I'm given the option to play at native resolution even at the exepnse of details.
I love how the pattern on the curtains in the diner actually have clear shadows with RT because the thicker fabric of the embroidery would block the light.
FYI, I wrote this before he went back and pointed out this detail more directly
Show this to every person who still thinks RT is a gimmick. Then tell them what if their waifus had RT detail
It really is an absolutely staggering technical achievement in so many ways. I loved just about every second with this weird, wonderful, game.
Now if only the writing could have matched the graphics.
@@nhagan001 🤡
@@nhagan001 The writing was amazing. What are you even on about? Clearly you didn't even play the first game nor Control.
@@nhagan001 Much meta, very wow! :D
@@zeroskaterz92 yeah, that Mary Sue character was SOOOO well written! Loved how she was able to solve so many mysteries by making shit up in her “mind palace”. I especially like the part where she knew that a person has a necklace on her with no evidence to support it!
And when the person with the necklace is about to ask Saga how she knew, the game cuts her off because they know it is bullshit.
I like how you claim I haven’t played other games to make it sound like I’m wrong.
If I have to play a game outside of Alan Wake 1 to understand your story, you have failed as a writer!
@26:49 it seems the RTX 4070 SUPER came out early :D
Great video still !!
Now this is some top quality coverage guys. Really keen on this one, especially showcasing the different RT effects and how they work both in still images and in motion. Keep it up!
100% agree
Great editing on this one, love the Remedy/AWII style title cards.
i always get excited when alex talks about anything rt. Love his perspective
Outstanding video as always Alex. Your attention to detail is second to none and in this case really rewards the Remedy devs' attention to detail too! 👏
Between the hardware requirements and my backlog, cannot wait to play game in 5 years from now.
The rounded surveillance mirror in the subway was really a wow moment for me
RTX 4070 Super? Labeled at 26:58
THANK YOU for calling out the mouse stutter. Drives me crazy.
Why is barely anyone talking about the mouse stutter, its such a major issue. This game also has traversal stutter here and there.
But I guess its not unreal engine so its not cool to complain about stutter
Such a joy to watch your videos, guys! So proficiently crafted. Beautiful speeches, such insanely deep dives into all these amazing technologies. Highly appreciated!
Alan Wake 2 indeed looks gorgeous. All Remedy games have their own & tailored look ( that for me personally works 100 % ) that differentiates them from other AAA titles and that's why even Max Payne 1 looks good to me all those years later. I showed screenshots from my playthrough to my colleagues to illustrate how Remedy applies the right amount of restraint when placing assets in the environments so that the assets, materials & overall composition can shine without unnecessary visual clutter. The only small nitpick i have with the PT & RT reflections is that they really did the mirrors in this game dirty by having this awesome tech and still making the surfaces look rather bumpy and producing really weird reflections. Other than that, looking at the extremely noisy reflections on the ground in Robocop :Rogue City i realized how much better Northlight engine ( and RED engine, for that matter , after playing through Phantom Liberty with PT on ) look when implementing those techniques than UE5 right now. P.S using music from the first Max Payne game here brought a smile on my face :)
Thank you for doing this. I just cranked the settings to eleven and played the game, now i can appreciate every detail.
I love that you took the “When it’s done” approach with your analysis of this one. Cheers for staying true to yourselves. 🍻
Ah! The video I've been waiting for hehe :) Time to find out how to optimize my RX 7900 XTX in AW2 but with keeping Raytracing (ideally path tracing).
The game works great on my 4070 just put FSR 2 on quality u be good .
19:00
Alex and his path traced toilets. Name a more iconic duo.
Absolutely love your PC analysis. There's a lot more that can be said and compared on PC (due to the high configurability) than on console. Looking forward to more of this!
Fantastic video. I wish they would give us a "pure pathtracing" mode with GI taking over all lighting
It looks like Remedy is using a technique I was hoping devs would use when ray tracing was first introduced back in 2018. Use it as a visual guide for the non-ray traced counterpart. In art, thinking of it as tracing the source image. So many scenes are pretty close.
Nice!
PS5 games are better, Spider man 2 only has Ray tracing
You make it sound like RT is a new thing. 😉 GPU-accelerated RT was introduced to consumer graphics cards in 2018, but RT's been a thing since the 70s, has been used in movies /artworks for decades and the first real-time RT demo I've seen was Quake 3 RT (part of Daniel Pohl's bachelor's thesis AFAIR; later, he used to work for Intel for a couple of years and did a couple projects on Larrabee - but we all know how that GPU turned out. 😔).
Maybe i am wrong but i feel like this is how valorant textures are made, you can see color bounce on some maps but the game is rasterized
@@rockapartie Yeah, to emphasise: the new thing that's now available is real-time raytracing. Having to render 30+ times per second is a vastly different problem to waiting even a minute to get a static render which you could use to recreate with less resource intensive lighting tech.
I wanna mention something about transparency in the "Ray Tracing Optimised Settings" section of the video. Yes the low setting for transparency overall looks fine, but there are major graphical issues in some scenarios with crazy blocking effects and flickering which ruins the entire presentation of the scene. I get this issue looking at the lake from the main street of Bright Falls, with a very off angle. Switching to high seems for now to be the only solution...
Yes, same here.
Also there are a lot of mirrors in the game that straight up dont have a reflection at all, even with all path tracing maxxed.. He didnt mention that for some reason
I get this also with the high setting, I think it's a bug
@@jackhanma376 It has to be a bug, but I haven't noticed any major issue since I switched to high
@@loutrepolemique5951 I've only noticed it when playing as Saga (very minor spoiler>>>>>> at the Valhalla nursing home rehabilitation center
@@jackhanma376 Same here, specifically the Police Station on first visit. The glass dividers between the cubical offices was causing like a sparkling flicker.
Awesome video, loved the detailed examples in motion compared to RT/PT off.
Thank you, Alex. Was waiting for this video. Top notch work you do. Cheers!
Hmm and i was thinking looking at faces in AW2 that rather weirdly there seems to be no SS which looked kinda bad. It does stand out in a bad way. But it turns out it's a byproduct of RR doing it's work. Also the fact that game seems to be using mix of GI solutions explains why Oliver in his video thought that there's much less difference in game's visuals on consoles compared to PC presentation than he was expecting. Excellent video Alex, thank you.
On my 3080, with PT at medium settings 1440p DLSS balanced, I only had 30FPS experience in the forest segments in Saga's story, the rest of the game, and all of Alan's story, it was smooth
Those Saga forest sections seem to be the most demanding parts of the game. Return 2 tanks performance on PS5 in both quality and performance mode.
rtx 4070 1440p,ultra,raytracing max with path tracing/dlss quality - minimum 50fps in the forest :)
@@api3dewith frame gen?
@@BigBoss-kk4sr yes,looks & runs great
Same for me. Seemingly all the scenes in Bright Falls have way more stuttering.
I have to turn off RT entirely to get it to run well.
Then I turn it back on when I get to Alan/Dark Place/'indoor' portions
Great analysis Alex, keep up the good work!
4070 Super? Did the rumours already become reality or am i missing something? :D
I just don't get how games in 2023 lack true reflections from mirror's and the like when I played games from the early 2000's that had it?
Doom 3 mirrors were perfect example
The mirrors are made to look rough intentionally. Only the developers are artists know why that is but the game is capable of sharp mirror reflections.
We should praise Remedy for making small and relatively insigificant cuts to ray tracing in order for the game to run well. That is how you optimize a game. They made cuts that no one would notice in game to give most systems a chance to hit 60fps. Well Done!
my 3090 can't run 4k/60fps constant with RT lowest setting enable lol
@@Kabodanki Alex literally provides optimized settings at the end of the video, you obviously need to use DLSS if you want to do 4K.
@@Kabodanki bro even a 4090 cant run pathtracing 4K60, not realistic to expect
PC games have settings that you can change for lower end systems. Of course they can do this for lower settings but the highest available settings should be uncompromised.
It's disappointing to see people praise this game for optimization when it brings the 4090 to 1080p with RT off. The game has some issues.
This is awesome! Makes it so much easier to decide what settings are worth using compared to the performance loss.
Love that u use Remedy`s game ost like Control, Max Payne and Quantum Break and of course, great video !
I wonder if the compromise rendering indoors was due to issues with insufficient ray counts / bounces for illuminating indoor scenes that are lit primarily by indirect sun lighting.
probably done to keep the art style of scenes consistent unlike in a game like cyberpunk, where many story scenes were completely different which wasn’t what the developers intended. i do like how cyberpunk does things better though, as the whole point of path tracing to me is lost in this game due to it sacrificing accurate and perfect lighting for the art style
Art style is much more preferable. Accurate lighting is nice but creators intent is better. I don't want games to look bland like most of the real world.
Still this game has great art style as is in cyberpunk even though they are going for realistic lighting.
@@mikkokoponen8464 if they would be able to keep the art style similar but also let full path tracing do it's thing it would be wonderful. in cyberpunk's case its true the scenes change a lot but the vibe is mostly intact.
I think the scenes in AW2 change very much and vibe is definitely there. Comparing Alan and Saga scenes are already quite different.
That definitely seems like it. Nvidia's Path Tracer only does 2 bounces which makes many indoor areas and corners pitch black in Cyberpunk, it makes sense they're relying on signed distance fields as a fallback.
This took a lot of time to make. There are at least 3 changes in Alex's intonation so it feels like the video was done in 3 segments. The final result may be half an hour long but this a lot more time and a lot of work to accomplish.
Incredible coverage! You guys are awesome. I love QUALITY.
Thanks Alex for the insane amount of work put into this. I don’t play the game but I couldn’t stop watching this video
Edit: update 12 fixed the issue described below:
Enabling frame generation introduces hitching whenever the game transitions from pre-rendered cinematics to real-time rendered graphics, similar to what The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk used to have before Nvidia released Streamline 1.5.6.
Yeah and so what its a little inconvenience (that should be fixed I concede) compare to getting double FPS
@@maximefraisier1010 these transitions are used for jumpscares and they often occur a dozen times in the span of 5 seconds, so it's pretty jarring. Not to mention it ruins the dev's artistic vision for the game as well as the player's immersion. Love frame gen, needs fixed tho'.
This is an interesting point. How do you know it is due to FG? Also worth noting to run it maxed even with dlss quality, you need FG on to run it at a good framerate. 80-100
@@ervinfakas3973 I have same issue and it disappears as soon as you turn off frame gen. Checkout Hollows’a gameplay part 1 video in the starting couple of minutes during jump scares, he also has these stutters.
I have a theory.
I bet on transition you're just losing the FG frame because for obvious reasons it can't interpolate. This may not be fixable, or at least not without getting REALLY creative.
Turn on a frametime meter. I bet the hitch is about double the normal frametime.
I don't have RTX 4000 so I'd love to hear results if someone tests this.
Once I go out of the forest sections, I was really able to take advantage of RT/Path Tracing on low, with all other settings on High/Ultra on a 3090 with a pretty solid framerate in the 80-90s. That forest section is just an absolute beating with RT/PT on.
True. Like a ~60% drop in performance. I guess there's too much geometric detail.
New PC user here with a 3090 too. Do you recommend DLSS performance or balanced? I still don’t understand what this technology actually does. I feel if I use performance I’m doing it wrong so I put it on balanced.
@@PedroNWO DLSS you should either use quality or not at all. Because otherwise youre massively losing imagine clarity, while getting a lot more artifacts.
Especially on a GPU like a 4090 you should never use balanced/performance. Otherwise why even have a high end GPU, if you just look at a blury image like that?
Increadibly elaborated video giving an outstanding analysis. Secont to none.
Kudos and thank you very much!
As always, the attention to detail is second to none. Love your videos.
Word of advice play this game on a big screen. It looks nuts.
Thank you Alex, this kind of analysis is second to none! Hope you’re having a great weekend.
Thank you Alex for this, frankly, listening to you go in such detailed description of the graphical features of this game, it is really turning me on
Amazing in depth analysis. Thank you very much for your work!
I've been looking forward to this.
For the first time in a long time, asset quality is now the limiting factor in realism. Lighting is effectively a solved problem.
I'm hoping full ray tracing (aka path tracing) becomes the norm for AAA releases.
I'm not sure about that, there still seemed to be issues with the GI system. It's good but not mind blowing.
nah pathtracing as the way its used in these games still as problems mainly beacuse its using previous frame information to construct a good looking image and low sample and bounce counts not to mention its not simulating light asif it was a wave/partical but just a partical what is not entirely acurate and breaks some effects that work in real life nvidia released a paper on a wave/partical tracer that would be more acurate but its 10x slower so not viable for games
@@ImplyDoods sample counts are an easy fix. As time goes on you can run these games at higher internal resolutions which will increase the amount of samples. Ideally, you'd have better anti aliasing options including the ability to disable TAA for this future hardware, but any time that subject is brought up, DF gets strangely defensive. But regardless, higher resolutions are all you really need.
My point isn't that this game looks perfect, it's that all the tech is now available to reach a level of perfect photorealism that we've seen in movie CGI for just over a decade now.
As for wave/particle stuff. Stuff like spectral rendering is neat for edge cases, but if you avoid using complex materials you can render photorealistic images without it and even a lot of photoreal CGI rendered offline doesn't use it.
Clearly not solved as pointed out in the video, but were much much closer. I will never understand people who dismiss lighting as not matters and its the biggest thing that gets us close to photo realism.
Thank you for the hard work, well done.
Top notch video as usual, Digital Foundry. Thank you for this. I have found that using DLSS Quality has better framerates overall for obvious reasons and it's the "set it and forget it" setting if you have the hardware for it. There's also some lighting issues especially indoors where it takes you out of the immersion. One with an NPC sitting on the toilet was brightly lit while the surrounding was totally dark. Overall, this game looks amazing and path tracing is the future. Again thank you for your amazing work.
I love this kind of video, thanks Alex!
I hope Northlight won't have the same 'killed eventually by Unreal" fate like REDEngine.
5:35 I recognize the Max Payne music!
Love how you emphasized the increased fidelity while the game is in motion, still image comparisons don't do rt effects justice a lot of the time atm. It's while the camera is moving that they just look and feel completely surreal
This is such a great video, I love your work Alex, much appreciated- this helped me decide which version to get
Watching this, I couldn't get out of my mind that the Max Payne 1&2 remake will be in this Northlight engine. That's going to be special indeed.
3:42 just mind blowing shadow. Totally worth to enable RT at least to see this
I appreciate that you've done this video similarly to the Control video from 2019 :D
Can't wait for the videos about the Max Payne remake.
Wow those shadows from the crochet curtains blew my mind. 🤯
And the winner of DF's best graphics of the year is...
Spiderman 2
Gollum? I mean cyberpunk 2077 😂
@@majstorringono
@@majstorringo I think you mean Spiderman 1.5
@@Hexentric8 Ok, what is the best graphic game in your opinion? Open world game in first place.
It is pretty but most of the time, most people will not notice these details especially when we're focusing on the story.
Yeah, I feel like the minor quality improvements dont justify the insane hardware requirements that come with enabling RT at any capacity. If anything it proves that RT is still too demanding despite the advancement of hardware since its 2018 debut, when the improvement it provides (when it actually looks good) are overall marginal at best.
It depends on the game. I haven't played AW2, but it looks like a slower-paced, investigative, narrative-driven adventure. While you can zoom through it if you want, you're probably missing out. The better the graphics in a game are, the more I'm willing to slow down and smell (with my eyes) the (digital) flowers.
The shadows with path tracing really sells the photorealistic look
Just a note on terminology (and pardon me if this appears a bit neckbeard scratchy, but given DF's leading role in educating the public on what graphics engineers work on, it would definitely be valuable to get terminology right):
Tracing specular rays is not 'Path Tracing', it's called 'Whitted style Ray Tracing'. The 'Path' in Path Tracing denotes the simulation/approximation of all possible paths (in exact terms: a full solution to Kajiya's Rendering Equation, be that with a certain amount of variance and/or bias), so _only_ a solution with global illumination (using so called 'Final Gather' techniques) support can be considered Path Tracing (more specifically: 'Path Tracing' refers to the technique that does this in the 'straightforward' way with 'just' variance; other techniques like Photon Mapping or Radiosity or Metropolis Light Transport or whatnot are equal to Path Tracing in approximating Kajiya's Rendering Equation while tending to trade variance for bias).
The important distinction of specular support of 'multiple bounces' (i.e: the standard direct visibility ray + shadow ray, and then an added bounce in between) is that it only attempts to simulate a _singular_ (so called 'Dirac delta') ray connection from the eye to the light (hence also the high frequency noise, which the denoiser goes to town on), which is fully true for direct shadow visibility as well ... and we don't call that Path Tracing either, do we?
In 'Light Path Notation', the terminology can all be summed up as follows:
'Basic' Ray Tracing (only direct lighting): EDL light path; Eye ray -> only one diffuse surface interaction -> shadow ray to light to terminate
Whitted style Ray Tracing (direct lighting + reflection/refraction): ES*DL light path; Eye ray -> zero or more specular surfaces interactions -> only one diffuse surface interaction -> shadow ray to light to terminate
Path Tracing (full Kajiya Rendering Equation solution): E(S|D)*L light path; Eye ray -> zero or more specular or diffuse surface interactions -> shadow ray to light to terminate
The whole reason why Path Tracing is so hard is because of that defining difference of simulating diffuse bounce interactions, which implies that any singular incoming ray can spawn multiple outgoing rays, which can cause something called 'ray explosion'. As we don't have infinite processing power (and will likely not get there for quite some time :p), this needs to be approximated, which is done using 'Final Gather' techniques (fascinating subject in and on itself, but probably too much for a CZcams comment).
To get this point across rather elegantly: if you'd have a full path traced simulation and infinite processing power, in the end you wouldn't even need to cast those super artifical shadow rays, as shadows would just be the implicit result of the absence of light. That's what makes any correct approximation to Kajiya's Rendering Equation (like Path Tracing) so much of a holy grail: it simulates actual physical light (within the limits of the model used), and reality just falls out of that equation implicitly.
And yeah, in reality of course specularity and diffuseness are kind of two sides of the same coin from a material perspective; they just describe how much light is absorbed by the surface (i.e internally reflected until energy is lost) vs reflected. But from the limitations of a computer model vs actual reality, these kind of distinctions are important (defining, even). So, hopefully this explains in a bit more detail why 'Specular Indirect Lighting' (which is an absolutely valid and useful term in and on itself) does not actually imply path tracing.
Anyway, excellent video and great to see how passionate and thorough you are in educating your audience, Alex. So this is mostly meant as a refinement to the broader understanding (although runaway incorrect terminology is nothing new in the industry, so I have no delusions my wall of text will do anything more than be of potential interest to those of us who geek out about this kind of stuff).
Very informative
What you guys do for the industry and for the consumers is invaluable.
Yup. Absolute champs. Only "commercially viable" Channel that actually calls out bullshit.
hahah sure pal
I know RT is the future, mostly due to how much work time is saved from letting RT do the heavy lifting instead of spending so much time faking it. However I find that in AW2 just like Metro Exodus, a good looking game just looks good. And RT is just a horizontal visual alternative to me not a next level game changer. And honestly not worth the performance hit, until you can RT at a small enough cost to performance I dont see the benefit for consumers at all. That said good looking games are good looking. The only true upgrade of RT is in reflections, SSR artifacts and limitations being replaced by RT reflections is a game changer. Light and shadows tho you can fake it well enough to basicly be no difference at the cost of more dev work.
Noticed a lot of these stuff... some frames with glass in front reflects the environment around...its beautiful
Amazing analysis as usual...that software RT noise could very well be mistaken for some kinda of granular detail, ahah XD
I was waiting for you to point out that the two red ketchup squeeze bottles in in the diner scene were entirely omitted from the RT shadow and RT reflection.
great in depth analysis and what a great game from the technical side if they fix the rest of the flaws :)
Oh, I tought the stutters when moving camera with mouse was a problem on my end, but it turns out it's a bug from the game, thanks for mentioning that
Amazing video and attention to detail.
I wish every game had RT to remove SSR, gotta be the single most distracting effect in gaming history.
26:50 hold up. 4070 super? What?!
Coming soon.
I would have assumed that they are 'blending' path-tracing with the software GI system at least in part in order to preserve the artistic intent in certain scenes where full path-tracing may otherwise lead to a different/undesirable aesthetic outcome. Still a gorgeous game, but the overall technical impression is somehow a little less impressive than Cyberpunk's path tracing implementation (art aside, of course). Either way, really exciting to see developers embracing new technology in this way, especially in a game which seemingly does require such precise artistic lighting of scenes. Perhaps an unblended and improved path tracing mode would be a good addition for a potential rerelease some years down the line, as with Control's Ultimate edition/patched in ray tracing enhancements on PC. Thank you for the ever enlightening content!
Serious question, because I don't get it. Why are SSR reflections always so chunky and slow to update? Do resolution and framerate not affect how accurate they can be or how fast they can update? I understand it is only working with information in the screen space, but that's not what I'm talking about. You would think updating at a higher framerate would mean they wouldn't need as much time to 'catch up' and a higher resolution would mean they would be 'tighter' to the objects instead of missing so much in a giant halo around them?
I've been playing with RT on and suffering the decrease in frames. Worth it tho. Game is pretty stable. When you first enter the overlap and the red light is shining thru the leaves I just had to keep it on.
26:53
RTX 4070 Super ? Does Alex knows something we don't ?
I don't think you can call this path tracing. Path tracing takes cares of everything, reflections, shadows, bounce lighting, etc. You wouldn't have different switches for different effects. Sure, you can configure path tracing to not render shadows, reflections, etc but this game allows you to have some RT effects on or off AND "path tracing". Wouldn't it make more sense to do those RT effects with path tracing instead of mixing them different algorithms? Is performance a problem? Cyberpunk does it.
Excellent work Alex.
Very good video!
"ray tracing is NOT diminishing returns"
"Now if you zoom in at this bowl with coffee creamer"
Its all down to your perception.
Lighting is everything
Yup I remember playing days gone(which renders graphical settings in real time) and flipping between low and ultra noticing how much more realistic it was. No other setting made as big a difference. Everyone thought poly counts would make everything realistic back in the early PlayStation days more detailed models and what not but when global illumination came out we ditched that idea quickly haha. Just wish Alan wake 2 had a 100% path traced option like cyberpunk not hybird rasterization/Ray tracing 😢
Absolutely loved the video and how it really outlined the difference between scene specific RT on and RT off representation of that scene. However, one critique must be that it's never a great idea to compare an Nvidia series x of generation a with a series y of generation b (3080 vs 4070). That simply can't end well, and the comparison should be between either gen a series x vs Gen a series y, or Gen a series x vs Gen b series x... And so on, especially when talking about fps/throughput alone. Anyhow, I'm rambling... Awesome video!
Danke! Thanks for the great Work. Helps a Lot every time
It really sucks for Turing and Ampere users that the standard reflections, which can make a big difference, are locked behind path tracing.
How does that suck? That hardware doesn't have capable technology to do ray tracing, it's not built for RT.
@@BrecklynFast Bullshit. They could have used standard RT reflections like in many other games such as Control.
I am so grateful that I lived to see what full pathtracing looks like on an OLED ultrawide monitor. Thank you God, for gracing me with such privilege and thank you DF for your coverage. Yours truly, a fellow graphics engineer.
it really was all God's work, no one else's
Having been waiting for this quite a bit!
One annotation. If you focus the flashlight to a mirror you don't see the reflection of the flashlight on the near walls or objects. With RTX on or off.
There are certain SSR algorithms that caches the current frame and reprojects to fill in the missing data caused due to dis-occlusion , but these algorithms are very niche and very performance intensive.. These algorithms doesn't completely removes the dis-occlusion artifacts, it just reduces them...
But still I wonder how the game would look, if they used real time cubemaps and planer reflections for the reflections along with baked GI for primary light bounces and screen space global illumination for secondary bounces for the diffuse lighting... and instead of cascade shadow maps, how about, resolution independent contact hardening virtual shadow maps...
Having RT on with max settings does increase the fright factor a lot more. Many a times I find some gleaming light or shadow and realize after getting scared that it was only my character’s reflection.
that happened to me in control dozens of times, way more often than in alan wake 2. rt changes atmosphere to varying degrees but that was one of the most game changing side effects.
While it may only be a 4070, I've just completed my first ever build (coming from laptops and prebuilds) and having seen some of these differences that Alex points out in person and in real time? WOW. Can't wait to play more through this game.
Tolle Arbeit wie immer!
"only" 700 euros for a graphics card :)
I'm really happy to see where frame generation can shine. FG is something I've wanted for a decade. Obviously TVs use a more rudimentary version of it, often just interpolating frames. But in games where latency is not a huge factor, frame generation can drastically improve the experience.
Im definitely a bit jealous of how clean the PC version looks..The only issue i have with console versions is the horrible implementation of FSR2..It's seriously horrible looking I haven't seen so much aliasing since the 360 Ps3 era...Other games that use FSR2 definitely still have aliasing but not even close to the same level as AW2...It really really takes away from the otherwise sublime visuals..
You are jealous of DLSS optimization, PC with FSR has shimmer too
This is a Nvidia optimized game
It's because native resolution is way too low. 850p on XSX/PS5 is basically ps3 output
@RonniSchmidt-mi7pd Thats not what I'm saying...DLSS is a much better upscaling solution but FSR2 is used in Starfield and Immortals of aveum and cyberpunk 2077 and like I originally stated they all have aliasing and shimmering issues but not even close to how badly it looks in AW2...Capcom updated RE4 remake on series x to use FSR2 and looked like a shimmering mess and a week later updated it again to go back to its original upscaling solution because it looked so much better....They can use other anti aliasing techniques on top of FSR2 to help lesson the horrible aliasing..
@vandammage1747 in quality mode it's about 1280p native...Immortals of Aveum is 1080p native upscale and still looks cleaner with less aliasing and shimmering.
Would be nice if customers had an option to buy nvidia sku hardware for home consoles, but thats not cost effective for either nvidia or sony/xbox.
However...
Nintendo will likely be your best bet, though their power budget on switch 2 will be pathetic, i am going to be stoked to see how DLSS creates relatively sharp as hell imagines for the tiny tablet screen...
Wish my steamdeck could use an nvidia SOC like Nintendo's upcoming Switch 2. Im very jealous. Fack FSR.
Am i seeing a 4070 SUPER at 26:56? So they are coming indeed.
20:08 I love that the mustard bottle and the salt shaker are mirrored but not the ketchup and the hot sause (that were in front of them). 🤣
Excellent and informative!