Upgrade APC Smart-UPS to LiFePO4 batteries by PowerTech
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Guide on how to upgrade the APC Smart-UPS 1500 SUA1500i from SLA (Lead-acid) batteries to LFP (LiFePO4) lithium batteries.
▼ Information Below ▼
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:50 Unboxing
02:30 Voltage test
03:06 Initial charging
04:12 Removing the old battery
05:38 Creating the new battery pack
09:57 Connecting the new battery pack
12:00 Battery meter tuning
13:17 Testing the UPS under load
You will need:
● 2x PowerTech PowerBrick+ 20Ah or 30Ah LiFePO4 batteries
● A Smart-UPS 1500 SUA1500i
● The cables, terminal covers and fuse from your old battery pack
● A bit of double-sided tape
● Optional: A 12V battery charger
● Optional: APC-Fix software
PowerTech PowerBrick+ 12V 20Ah
www.powertechsystems.eu/home/...
links.powertechsystems.eu/EN-...
PowerTech PowerBrick+ 12V 30Ah
www.powertechsystems.eu/home/...
links.powertechsystems.eu/EN-...
These batteries are rated at 3000 cycles at 100% DoD or 4500 cycles at 80% DoD which means that these batteries last much longer than traditional SLA/AGM batteries which have to be replaced every 3 to 5 years. However, these LiFePo4 batteries are much more expensive.
Warning: Do not use cheap LiFePO4 batteries
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• $54 12V 16Ah LiFePO4 "...
Warning: Li-Polymer or Li-Ion batteries can be unstable
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• Examples of Lithium Ba...
APC Fix utility:
web.archive.org/web/202210161...
You will need an old PC with a serial port and the original APC serial cable that came with your Smart-UPS. You cannot use a standard serial cable, APC uses a custom crossover.
Expected problem
Battery meter will be off. The new batteries have a much higher capacity than the old SLA batteries and the UPS will not understand this. The UPS will think that it is low while the battery still has more than 50% capacity left. The UPS will stay on and deliver power but if you use an automated shut-down at less than 10% power then your devices will be shut down long before the new battery is drained.
Music: Soundtrack from the game Tyrian by Alexander Brandon
alexanderbrandon.bandcamp.com... - Věda a technologie
Just a small update: I got a new computer with higher power draw. Max 650 watt. UPS with these batteries takes the load just fine.
As check and maintenance I took out the batteries, checked the terminal connections. All still fine. I used my standalone battery charger to charge the batteries individually, in case they would have gotten in a state of imbalance, but this was not needed. Each battery charged for around 40 seconds after which my LiFePo4 charger (CTEK CS One) indicated they were fully charged. So the UPS keeps them nicely charged so far without imbalance problems.
I have done a couple of conversions of the LCD Versions of APC LCD Smart UPS's. 1. the charging voltage for a LiFePO4 battery is higher than for an SLA and this is important because the APC UPS will NOT fully charge a LiFePO4 battery without some level of modification. Using a USB to serial adapter I was able to enter the Programing mode and adjust the Float Charing Voltage to 28 VDC and 28.3 VDC (two different UPS's). The recommended charging voltage for the LiPO4 batteries is 14.2 to 14.6 VDC each (28.4 to 29.2 VDC for a pair). You will see that even after the adjustment I was not quite able to get the necessary voltage from the UPS to charge the batteries - that is one reason why the video starts with charging them externally. If you start with charged batteries they should work until they are discharged, but one of the main functions of a UPS is to keep the batteries charged (which it won't quite do for the LiPO4 batteries). This ends up resulting in the system being very undercharged, but reporting O.K. to the UPS then when the power goes out they system rapidly discharges and dies. My next step is to solder a Potentiometer (on to the main board to give me more adjustment, but I am not even sure that will be adequate).
Hey is there a write up for this procedure available somewhere?
I did a similar conversion to Li several months ago. I solved the internal charge voltage problem by using a cheep Amazon boost converter. I found one that is fairly efficient and gives enough regulated boost voltage to fully charge the Li. HiLetgo 250W DC-DC Module 10-40V to 10-50V 6A Adjustable Step-Up Power Supply Module The slight loss in charge current is not normally a problem. Also, I check balance periodically and have never found that to be a concern. I fully charged both batteries separately before installing and then placed them in parallel for several days to even the charge. Once installed in series everything was good. (The boost module may be overkill. there are lower power modules available).
I have an APC SmartUPS 1400 RM that I am trying out 4 10 ah LiFePO4 batteries on. It seems to charge the batteries and the battery gauge on the unit seems to work. I have been only running them a couple of days. I used the utility to set the setting like you showed in the video. Though I had to stop the APC service in windows otherwise I couldn't connect with the com port.
THX 4 Sharing this is was a very informative video... BUT don't forget the + in the future ;) From the TERMINATOR ....
I didn't know about APCFix and I've been doing the constant changes using the APC serial cable and PuTTY. Anyway, can APCFix change the charging voltage on the UPS to support the higher voltage of the LFP batteries? Is that a good idea? Do the batteries need re-balancing after some time? I have several SU700i/inet.
No, APCFix can't change the charging voltage. At least not on my models. SUA1000i and SUA1500i.
A higher charging voltage can be a good idea but you need to look up the spec sheet of your batteries that you don't overcharge them. With my UPS the charging voltage is a bit low for LiFePO4 batteries which means the batteries will not reach 100% charge. To me this is fine because not charging them to 100% all the time will increase the battery life in years while still having a battery runtime that blows the original SLA batteries out of the water.
I haven't had to do any rebalancing since I installed the new batteries and everything charges and discharges still fine. The original SLA batteries can be installed without balancing for years. But to maximize runtime it won't hurt to occasionally charge them individually every year or every few years to prevent them to go out of sync too much.
Thanks for the video. How long have you been using the UPS with these batteries? Any issues or concerns, besides the ones already described?
I purchased mine APC new in 2014 and the original battery just die, so no complains, getting more than 9 years from the OEM.
My dilemma is, what I would be gaining by using LiFePO4 battery?
Two APC SUA1500i UPS units have been in use with my workstation and server since the making of this video. There have been no problems at all. You will have to decide if you want to replace your dead batteries with (cheaper) traditional SLA batteries or (these) LiFePO4 batteries. Nine years usable lifetime from SLA batteries is rare. They usually last up to 5 years. (Between 3 to 5 years is expected)
@@Hypernl Thanks!
II have done the same with my BX1100CI-RS, added external 32AH 24V LifePO4 battery pack with Active Balancer and shunt trip protection on cell voltage limit. Works like a charm, charge time is a bit long with 1A, but if drained fully, I usually charge it with external charger.
What about the fact that the BMS limits the battery to only 45A which is 576Watts. Double this for 2 batterie and it's close to 1200Watts but not 1500VA. I am thinking that maybe the BMS will shutdown in case of high drainage! What do you think?
Yes, this seems a real limitation. Not one I will ever touch with my equipment but the limitation is there and something to consider. I think foor the great majority of the users this limitation will be more than compensated by the far longer runtime of these batteries. Especially with the abysmal runtime you will get from the original 2x 18Ah SLA batteries when you load the UPS to it's capacity.
@@Hypernl what is the expected run time for the original batteries? I'm trying to decide what to order for mine currently.
@@carldalsasso8603 Well, that depends a lot about the load. Lead-acid batteries prefer a slow drain. You can put high leads on them no problem but this affects runtime a lot. You can get an estimation of the runtimes with new original batteries on the APC website: www.apc.com/be/en/product/SUA1500I/apc-smartups-1500va-usb-serial-230v/ Imo, the predictions there are a bit too favorable. Take 66% of their predictions and you're probably fine. Aged lead-acid batteries 2 to 5 years old will have a much worse runtime.
I am 1 week away from doing the same with my sua1500i from 2006.
Did you complete battery runtime calibration?
How much of a problem is run time and following shutdown affected?
I installed a AP9630 network interface a few years back. Makes it MUCH more easy to change settings and view log of events and temp+voltages.
how is yours set up?
No, I did not use the runtime calibration. I don't have the required load of half the capacity. What I did is in the video, I reset the battery constant using APC-Fix and did a full discharge with 300 watt load. This is a load too low for a proper calibration. Even with the proper load it remains to be seen if the UPS can ever learn the true capacity of these batteries because the capacity is much, much higher that anything that the UPS expects.
Any automated shutdown (Using the APC PowerChute software or similar) will happen when the UPS THINKS the batteries are near empty. However, the UPS will stay on and deliver power until the batteries are drained.
Do not use readymade battery. These have bms that will shut down before the ups does and that would mean the ups will not turn back on automatically when mains is restored. You can not use any sort of cutoff with ups. The battery must be connected to the ups all the time. The ups will accurately handle low voltage & high voltage cutoff. So all you need is a cell balancer. And balancing is a problem with Lifepo4. Even new cells will have ±2% capacity difference and the voltage gap will grow between two packs if you do not use a single balancer that would manage all 8 cells at once and equalise them all in one piece.
@@KuntalGhosh Set min state of charge to like 30% for it to shut down seems to work for me at least with a matrix 5000. first time i did a manual battery cal 30% load and pull the plug until it turns off. YA it Wouldn't come back on. Bms opened. had to use the charger to kick the bms back on before the ups would charge. Yes battery equalizer is a absolute must even with only 2 batteries.
I should have read the comments before almost throwing out some SU1000 and SU700NET units that I thought finally died - turned out when the UPS is fully drained and shut down, the UPS would not turn on. Once I measured each LiFePO4 battery (2) with a voltmeter, one still has voltage, the other nearly zero i.e. the battery BMS shut down. Once I "recharged" the dead one by connecting pos-pos neg-neg for a few minutes and both had voltage, I reinstalled the batteries and the UPS would turn on. I use the UPSs the dumb way without "management" but now I'm inclined to finally get the serial cables and management for those UPSs connected to PCs / NASs so they can shut down the UPSs before fully draining the batteries. Units are old and some only have a DB9 serial connector. I had thought replacing with LiFePO4 was a no-brainer as the old SLA batteries expired, guess there are some caveats after all!
This music sounds like it's from a Yamaha FM Synth. YM2612? OPL3? Definitely that era. Straight SEGA Genesis.
Yes, It's a recording of the Tyrian soundtrack on OPL2/OPL3.
What about UPS charge controller? Is the circuit enough strong to deliver the requested lifepo4 amperage to charge them at all?
Recharging them (with the UPS) takes long. I haven't timed it but I would guess it was a bit less than 24 hours. Just give it time to charge. The UPS will not overcharge the batteries and the UPS will not charge with more amps than it can safely handle. Just give it time.
@@Hypernl ok, I suppose you checked the datasheet of UPS. What about temps when its charging? I have a smaller one so I want to be sure
@@lupoarrabbiato6698 I have the SUA1500i. It turns on it's fan when charging so it stays cool. The SUA1000i has no fan so that one may warm up. The batteries themselves are not getting warm. Especially because the UPS has a fairly low amperage for charging them.
Hi sir! A great project. Brazil charges high prices on the batteries. The regular RBC7 battery is costly. Battery packs cost almost as much as new UPEs.
Let me ask you a question? Can regular batteries be used? 12av 7ah? Since I can't install those batteries in the same place as the original, I put them on the UPS's side with an extension. What you think?
When you want regular AGM/SLA batteries but not want to pay the price for APC branded ones, you can buy any compatible 12V 18Ah batteries. Fact is that APC does not make batteries themselves. They buy them from battery manufacturers and make a ready-made pack from it. You can just use your existing fuse and cables and buy replacement batteries from brands like Kung Long, CSB, Yuasa and you will save a lot of money over an original RBC7 pack. You need maintenance free, sealed deep cycle batteries.
Kung Long WP18-12SHR, Yuasa NP18-12 for example. You should not use car batteries because they are not designed to be deeply discharged.
Well done. It is possible to make a video testing other appliances which consume more wattage?
I don't feel like making another video now. But I just tested the UPS with a 3D workstation running CPU ang GPU benchmarks. Power load at the wall outlet was 550 watt. When I yanked out the plug from the UPS the UPS just switched to battery fine and the PC stayed on uninterrupted.
Fair enough,@@Hypernl . Thanks for the reply at least.
Just a small update. I got a new PC with Threadripper 7000 CPU, and it takes up to 650 watt from the UPS. I yanked out the power cord and the UPS takes the load no problem.
hi, great video. One question. Does ups charge batteries if they get completely drained?
I have used the UPS on battery until the UPS shut down the load and then recharged it using the UPS without any issues. The BMS of the batteries will make sure the batteries do not get completely drained to a level where the batteries are damaged.
Could you show the cable you used to connect this to your computer?
APC part number 940-0024C
Google for "Desc: APC UPS cables File: apc.txt Date: 12 February 2010 Auth: Arjen de Korte" if you want to make your own one.
@@ruben_balea ^This or use a standard USB B to USB A cable. For the APC-Fix utility or manual programming you need the mentioned APC Serial cable. A regular serial cable will not work.
@@Aranimda Yes, I use the USB cable to monitor the UPS status and shutdown the computer when the battery is low, using the "HID UPS Battery" driver Windows 10/11 will treat the UPS almost like a battery on a laptop.
@schneiderelectric has a video called "Switching from APC USB UPS Drivers to HID Drivers on Windows" where they show how to switch from "APC UPS" driver used by PowerChute (and sometimes also by Windows) to "HID UPS Battery" driver
Good Video, just curious to see how this will fare over time without the LiFePO4 charger.
I did a full discharge and recharge using the UPS charger itself. No further cycles have been needed yet as my utility power is usually quite stable.
@@Hypernl that's not a good statement, the reason you have this is it protects you when the utility is not stable.
Lifepo4 has nearly identical charge curve to lead acid. If you didn't have a BMS the. You'd have problem but, most Lifepo4s batteries have a BMS in them. At worst the BMS kicks in and the UPS flashes the empty battery icon until the battery starts taking in some more trickle charge again. That's how mine works, even in this state of I kill mains power it clicks over just fine and ina few seconds detecs the battery. So aside from that minor indication flashing it functions the same without needing new batteries every three years old my cheapo Lifepo4s hold up
@@abnersilverio You never know when power will cut out. The fact that utility power is quite stable does not guarantee that it never cuts out. I just like to be protected.
What about using a dc to dc boost converter to increase the charge voltage of the APC to the proper level for Li-Ion batteries, wouldn't that make it fully compatible? You could mount it inside the chassis.
How do I get thses batteries
At any PowerBrick+ battery dealer. I bought mine at:
www.mze-drive.de/product-page/powerbrick-12v-30ah
Very friendly guy. He orders them directly at the factory and PowerTech systems will ship them to you. At least, that's how it worked when I ordered them.
Lifepo4 is great for ups.
I did something similar 5 years ago. But i made my own 25.6v pack
With 16 x 6000mah cells , i paid around 50$ for them. This was in 2017-18.
Under 300w load it runs 45min.
Using ready made battries have some downsides.
These battery come with inbuilt bms. That might shut off before the ups does and that will result in the ups not automatically starting back up when mains is restored.. also a bms is not required when using with ups as there is very precise voltage regulation in the ups. I only use a 8s battery balancer. And the battery is running for 5 years with 0 degredation in capacity. My ups is apx br1000g and it is capable of 600w. It is also meant to be used with extended battery which is necessary when you move to Lifepo4 because they are higher capacity than leadacid and have no pukert effect. So a 12ah Lifepo4 is equivalent to 28ah leadacid under 300w load. Thus if you install Lifepo4 do not run the ups above 50% unless it is meant to be used with external battery and has necessary cooling for such extended runtime under high load.
I first tried this battery with a cheaper "1100va" model that used low frequency transformer. And the transformer melted.
The br1000g indian model uses high frequency inverter and have large heatsinks to run extended battery. And have strong charger that will provide 3.75amps if you short the external battery detect pin to ground ! .
make a CZcams tutorial to step us thru it
Awesome tip about the external battery detection pin! I have a couple APC RS 1500 with external packs that I will be converting to LiFePo4.
@@gannas42 yup. Just short the two outermost pins of the connector and it will think an external battery is connected. Lifepo4 can take much higher charging current than leadacid so this will enable faster recharge. And the ups will correctly calibrate runtime.
@@KuntalGhosh You aren't kidding... the cylindrical cells I chose can take 35A continuous charge current. Amazing.
@@gannas42 what cells you bought?. 32140fs or 32700?
Charge voltage curves are completely different for SLA and LFP batteries. Does the software allow them to be changed? I am not all that thrilled at running software that comes from a Russian underground site. Anyone check the software out in a sandbox and see if it is Okay?
If you don't trust the software, then don't use it. It was self published by a small but skilled software developer and comes with the risk profile of all software you download from the website of small developers. You cannot change the charging voltage with it. You may be able to do that via a telnet session. You will have to consult guides to do so as you can truly ruin your UPS by entering the wrong commands in that raw interface.
APC charging voltage will be a tad low for LFP batteries. This will cause the charge to not reach 100%. This may be a good thing depending on your use because not charging it to 100% all the time will cause less aging of the battery cells.
The BMS on the LiFePO4 batteries can deal with this somewhat if the charge voltage is in range. However, the BMS will not be able to charge a LiFePO4 battery if the voltage is too low - which is likely the case.
@@troybarron9213Lifepo4 cell are not 4s but 3s so the ups are designed to charge two 13.6 batteries which is 27.3 and Lifepo4 charge voltage is 25.2v max the bms may do the battery charge protection
dude, is this windows 98 at the end of this video ? or windows xp ?
Windows 2000
is this 24V?
Individual batteries are 12v 2x 12v in series making 24v for the pack. (Same as the original SLA/AGM batteries)
Eaton UPS available for stock，Happy cooperation.
Mmmm windows 98 and shady Russian links. I wonder how new of an APC that software will program. I wonder where you purchased those batteries. I have a hard time believing they offer 30AH at that sizes unless they use grade A cells or rather I wouldn't believe it without a capacity test. You are one of a few posting such videos
Windows 2000 ;-)
I think APC-Fix will only fix the generation of UPS that I have and older. The ones with green LEDs as battery indicator and no LCD screen. It only woks via the serial (com) port on the UPS, not via USB or Ethernet communication.
I got two sets of batteries from two different shops:
EVEA Kartmasters, NOT recommended to buy there. They delivered but it took very long and communication was a nightmare.
MZE-Drive. Very friendly guy. If you're not from Germany you have to ask him for ordering from your country. Both shops order directly at PowerTech systems and PowerTech will ship to you directly via UPS. If shipping costs are very high at MZE-Drive ask for more affordable shipping options.
www.mze-drive.de/product-page/powerbrick-12v-30ah
Music sheesh. Very annoying.
All you had to do was mute it and keep you kike complains to yourself
I loved the music. Very catchy.
@@fuckthespies8484 All you had to do was ignore their comment and keep you rude thought to yourself
Its from a DOS game call Tyrian 2000.
@@CeruleanSeas No class haver.
What?? video from 2009.. where did this old stuff come from? Did you find it in the trash?
Video is made in 2023 and the upgrade is done in 2023. The UPS is much older. Perhaps from 2009. I don't remember. These are quality UPS units and they can last for many years as long as you provide them with fresh batteries when needed. I got 4 units of this generation. 2x SUA1000i and 2x SUA1500i and none of them failed so far.
You should probably tighten the power terminals on the batteries a lot more, a lot of amps go through these connections so you can't tighten them in a flimsy way with your fingers, you're more busy making one of those youtube videos where everything goes in slow motion and you have to see everything from the box to the plug from all angles, the only thing you need is a pair of blue or black plastic gloves then it would have been home in the form of a really crappy video, one thing you remembered was at least a really annoying " music" I don't think I've heard such bad music since the C64 came out.....If you're going to make those types of videos, make them the way they should be made.
it's probably a 20 years old video tho
I hear a lot of FM-y sounds here that the SID would not have been able to produce. Based on that, the sampling rate, and the fact that no more than 4 instruments play at once, it's far more likely this music comes from an Amiga instead, or a PC-compatible with an early sampling sound card. These, unlike the C64, were also around for the early days of BBSes, so a lot more music was being composed and shared for the platform, some of which is still available here on CZcams.
I just checked the connections to the terminals, and they were fine. But yes, they need to be properly tightened for a good electrical connection. And for the other remarks: I invite you to make a better video or one that better suits your taste of presentation and music.
My God, it was torture listening to this cheap 80s style movie/video games music?
One of the best kept secrets of CZcams is the mute button. It has the power to silence the sound of the video after which you can opt to enjoy any music of your personal music player, or perhaps just enjoy the silence as it is.
Don't listen to the haters. I loved the selection of songs. Those were the days. Also just for clarification, there is no extra BMS needed?
love the music 🤘
is this another mime video. god damned it i'm so sick of these
Always connect PLUS at first, then MINUS... looking at this - no matter is high or low voltage makes you an amateur :/
I AM an amateur. What makes you think I am doing this for my work? I'm just a home user.