This is Why you Need a Transfer switch - DIY Powerwalls
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2022
- transfer Switch amzn.to/3u1ZY0e
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I was looking at these last year, and decided to just put in a subpanel instead with my critical loads running to it. Then added a 220v gen/inverter circuit with a lockout so the panel cannot be connected to the grid and the inverter at the same time. I was required to pull a permit to do the work, and the inspector gave me a 9 out of 10 score on the job...that was super encouraging since I did the job myself.
The main reason for a transfer swich is so if grid goes down, your generater or inverter/ battery doesn't endanger linemen workung on getting the grid back up. Keeps your system out of the grid system.
You can also get away with a clearly labeled and properly maintained interlock to prevent the activation of the generator breaker and the main utility breaker. You have to know what you're doing, but it's a lot cleaner.
@@Alex-je6od transfer switch can be automatic. interlocks arent.
@@DieselRamcharger mmkay. Never said it was automatic. jehugarcia's transfer switch is also manual.
@@Alex-je6od "can be" i guess those words arent well understood by you?
@@DieselRamcharger Interlocks can be automated too using arduino’s and solenoids. Anything can be automated.
I use sensors in my house to tell me when the power goes out to fire off the battery backup on my wood stoves fan. I also have the thermostat on the same stove setup so I can adjust it remotely.
Im an electrician. I always recommend a transfer switch for the entire panel its usually cheaper and easier for the end user
Thankyou Jehu! I have similar setup in my home & garage but, there are A LOT of folks that don't savy how important and nice it is to have one. Other wise I suppose one could just run extention cords all over the house. That's how I used to roll when the power would go out. A definite pain, right in the ass! Backup switches are far superior
Jerry I love your videos. I love you and what you do.
I live in the back Waters in the Midwest and a transfer switch is going to be at least $1,000 to get it installed.
I would recommend upgrading to spring block connectors. The cost is more but they are a much better design than wire nuts.
Not sure what those look like
Never seen those, but I’m not an electrician and I guess all my places are old tech
@@jehugarcia
Wago type
Both wago and wire nuts can be used incorrectly and end up with a bad connection and they both can be used correctly and have a great 50 year connection.
Definitely never reuse either one in a high amperage situation. The clear wago do have the benefit of being able to inspect the connection which is cool.
I agree with you! and I have an ATS + MTS combination at my main panel as they way I automatically consume my off-grid power. Sun comes up, inverter goes on, ATS auto-switches to inverter power, the MTS let's me fine-tune which circuits I want on the inverter load. Sun goes down, battery runs down, inverter off and auto-back-to-grid. Use UPSs for computers.
Works really well for induvial component off-grid integration without power company even knowing. MPP Solar (and I think some GroWatts) have UPS built-in but MTS (or ATS/MTS combo) works as well to avoid direct grid tie hookup.
I'm interested in how you're auto switching on sun up... It sounds like you're doing the same as I want to do. I have 3.1Kwatts of solar and 680Ahrs of battery.. (soon to be doubled). What is an MTS?
The Sun causes the PV to charge the battery raising the battery voltage. When the voltage reaches a certain point, a relay turns on the Inverters - sending power to the ATS(s). When the battery runs down, a relay turns off the Inverters and the ATSs go back to grid. MTS = Manual Transfer Switch such as Reliance MTS or Pro/Tran2 MTS sold at Home Depot.
6:25 watch out tiying two phase together because now your neutral wire will have to carry twice the load of those two circuits... 1500w x2 = 3000w on the neutral wire. The reason it works with a split phase/one neutral is that those lines are inverted in phase, 1500w x2 = 0w on the neutral when those phase cross over one another. 14awg neutral would work no problem with a split phase but NOT ok when you are doing this twice on a single phase...
Interesting thought.
@@jehugarcia thank you for considering this, specially if you are using a gas generator that do not run on 240V but you do supply the black wire to two lines in your transfer switch, the current can get way higher on the white wire than it is suppose to support. You should make a note on your video about this. It is not super critical if you are powering lighting circuits but if you do run a kettle on one phase and a microwave oven on the other phase that you did split on a single phase generator/inverter, the neutral wire can become a fire hazard !! Thanks for noticing my comment !
@@Aleziss I'm confused... there's only one neutral wire in the transfer switch box that connect to the main breaker box. Why it would be a problem... Please explain
@@CarlosCarrillo-yz7nu there are two phases in 240V systems in north america identified by a RED and BLACK cable. Each of these RED and BLACK cable provide 120V when they are mesured against the WHITE neutral wire. There is an IMPORTANT detail about those two phase cable is that they are 180° phase inverted. While the RED phase has 120V the BLACK has 0V and when the opposite happend, when the BLACK phase has 120V, the RED phase has 0V and that happens 60 times per second, this is why we say it is a 60Hz system. That means if you draw 15A on the RED phase while it peaks at 120V, the BLACK phase is NOT pullilng power because it is 180° inverted thus the WHITE wire only "see" a 15A return current.
If you have BOTH BLACK AND RED tied together on the SAME phase as per describe in this video, the WHITE wire will have a total POSSIBLE return charge of 30A which it is NOT design to support.
You would probably not have an issue as long both RED and BLACK are not charged to their capacity limit but such panel is design to be installed in a 240V system and NOT a 120V because the WHITE return wire will have twice the load to support.
This is exactly how kitchen counter plug are wired, you can connect 2X 1500W devices on the same wall outlet because the top plug is connected to the RED phase and the bottom plug is connected to the BLACK phase and you can run a single 14AWG WHITE wire as a neutral without any issue because the two plugs are 180° out of phase. You could NOT do that if both RED and BLACK wire would be connected on the same phase as the WHITE wire would carry 30A return current which a 14AWG is NOT able to do without become a fire hazard.
60X EVERY second that happend between the BLACK and RED phase when they are measured against the WHITE wire...
120V-0V
119V-1V
118V-2V
117V-3V
116V-4V
115V-5V
...
3V-117V
2V-118V
1V-119V
0V-120V
and the cycle continue again and again 60X a second. You notice that the WHITE wire never "see" more than 120V thus never has over 15A charge.
Hey Jehu, This Was A Pretty Funny + Entertaining, Quick Draw Style Of Explanation On How A MANUAL Transfer Switch Works! 🤣
Thanks Jehu! So, if I get a similar setup with a scooter-power-wall feeding an inverter (no solar panels)... could I just leave the transfer switch for my critical circuits set to GEN all the time? That way they are powered through the inverter (which would not be using battery power when the grid is up, and would only be forwarding its AC power being that it would be plugged in to a non-critical panel circuit like the ones you have to the right of your breaker box). This should act as poor-man's auto transfer, while still never back-feeding the grid. Sound right? Am I overlooking anything? I would then only switch to LINE if I had to work-on/remove/replace the inverter etc.
From a "really old guy". This was a really great item when it first came out. The old way was really complicated and required and electrician AND paying the power company to turn off you power at the street!
For anyone not familiar, the 2 RED switches in the middle are ganged together and are for the ONE circuit that runs on 220. For country homes that eequire 220 VAC for the water pump.
A kitchen stove and central AC also would need to be on the 220v connections. So you have to choose which is more important or get a bigger transfer switch.
It is a 240 VAC not 220 v.
You can make your own if you have a box that you can put breakers side by side, but flipped, and attach the levers, so when you turn on the generator breaker, it turns off the grid breaker, it would only be $50-$150 depending on size, and breakers , and the outlet/inlet type, my breakers box just has a plug so I can either plug it into the he generator or the inverter! A couple 3phase breakers one reversed, and the lever connected, a 200-300 amp in a box so the main can be swapped at the input! For a smaller systems like this, din rail breakers mounted similar will work!
We’re waiting for the next 👍
I am using automatic transfer switch to change my load when grid goes down.. it's working great never have to touch anything since installed
Me too! mine switches so fast that my computer never loses power!
@@uhjyuff2095 same here I am running a small fridge from my inverter. Even though transfer switch changes back to grid it never reset the compressor
Think they make ones that can switch over automatically too and even start a generator automatically. Must have if you have a generator or power wall.
Yeah, lookup ATS - automatic transfers switch. Using one to flick between my solar battery and line 🙂
@@SergeantSpandexim looking to do this myself. Any ATS recommendations?
@@vickomf there's quite a few if you want to hardwire them. Otherwise APC and similar make rack-based ones that are plug and play for nearby devices
I installed one in my house but never used it. I think they prefer hard wiring the powerwall I personally used a APC3636 3600W ups with line in a automatic transfer switch to a secondary sub panel. Now if you used similar type of inverter than you don't need and get away with just a cheap sub panel. Look for inverter with UPS feature.
I just got my critical loads panel setup. I had not thought of using an inverter with a ups feature. Good idea. I have a 100amp circuit going to the critical loads panel though so that would be one expensive inverter.
@@ecospider5 20kw inverter or 4 5kw inverters. But that is 100a service, I think you are missing critical part in your load.
A Genetry Solar inverter comes with the Automatic Transfer Switch… AND they ship inverters that can run using Jehu’s scooter batteries at 36v
My mothers house has that same transfer switch for a generator. I was going to replace it with a main breaker interlock so all the loads would be powered in an emergency. Not sure if 3 phase interlocks exist though.
Thanks man. Does that mean you are not using batteries? You're doing almost exactly what I want to do. Except I have batteries to keep the system up through cloudy periods. Thanks for replying...
Several years ago I purchased a power transfer switch I am seriously debating on whether or not I want to get a power wall that I can charge with electricity from the grid and flip a switch if the power goes out are there good brands that you would recommend
Not everything said is correct, but good enough.
What are those 2 dials on the bottom left (next to generator outlet)?
I anxoiusly waited 13 minutes to learn that & what brand you have. ( Pro something? Couldn't quite make it out)
I am looking for a 10 circuit transfer switch but can't find one that looks like that one.
Also, modular power stations like EcoFlow & Bluetti sell their own subpanel/transfer switch boxes but theirs are over $1000.!!!! Will the generic transfer switches, like this one, not work with the Modular Power Stations?
A friend had their furnace stop working. The furnace repair person could not figure out what was wrong so they said call someone else but didn’t give an actual referral. They eventually called a master electrician. Something in the transfer switch had tripped. The electrician did 5 seconds of work and said. Here is your bill for $120.
So I do get your point of having the extra feature on your electrical system but every component adds complexity. I feel most people would have no idea how to uses a transfer switch so the extra complexity does not give them any benefit.
The other issue I have ran into is my neighbor has a transfer switch but when he plugged a generator into it none of the circuits in his house turned on.
My self I decided to go with a critical loads panel and an interlock switch.
My neighbor's car wouldn't start one morning. Turns out he wasn't turning the key.
$1 to flip the switch and $119 to know which switch to flip.
Funny - I learned during an ice storm this winter that modern gas furnace control boards need ground bonded to neutral in order to work. If you roll out a standard generator and don't properly ground it, you might not be able to run the appliances you want. EVSE's are another device with the same issue. An inverter like this would have the same issue and needs to be earth grounded ideally. Don't learn this during an emergency event - be prepared!
Hi Garcia. Thank you for these videos. Can you make a video installing one in a residential that has solar and grid tied with batteries or are there websites you can refer me to?
My place call ATS device.can transwitch grid to backup system and start generatior automatic or hand switch also.
Backfeed is a serious thing which is why transfer switches were created, had nothing to do with convenience.
Most utility companies dont want their linemen killed by backfeed so they sell and install transfer switches at a better deal (sometimes no install fee) than what a residential electrician will charge.
People need to realize that not only do the transformers that supply electricity to you house or business step voltage/amperage down but when backfed it will step voltage/amperage up to a lethal level.
If necessary linemen will also kill the power to do the required work and if it involves cutting your residence/business off the grid or grounding you system to burn out you generator they will.
They wont reimburse you for damaged equipment and some will not hook you back up until a transfer switch is installed.
Wow, I didn't know that trick about perhaps getting the installation of the transfer switch subsidized.
It's difficult to imagine the stupidity of somebody backfeeding their house without disconnecting the main breaker. But, sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous.
A lot of jurisdictions may require a permit to do modifications on your electrical system so check with your local permitting department for the final call.
You are not necessarily required to have an electrician install a transfer switch...though it is highly advised that you do use one if you do not know what you are doing or are hesitant.
As with any high voltage equipment...always VERIFY that the power is OFF to the feeds coming into the panel you will be working in...there is a danger of death with improper handling.
Correct, only certified General electricians are qualified to make electrical terminations.
I have a similar type, There is a light showing if there is power coming from the grid, if its off no power, so when I hook up my generator I can check at times to see if the power is back on and I can disconnect the genny. I have hear of people, turning off the main fuse from the street and making a plug to fit a power point and feed in power to the house that way lol. Not for me. I have solar power as well, no batteries, but this has been rigged up if there is no power from the grid, it disables the solar production feed in.
What's charging the batteries? Do you have PV direct to them? Most residential PV installs are grid tie (such as mine). How are systems set up to charge power walls and also provide a transfer to run off them?
Regular Ac charger,
I added a MT switch to my house thru the main panel. Not really hard to do. Just remember to use the proper voltage/wattage/amperage for all connections. I am feeding the transfer switch with 220v, four wires. Two hots, a neutral and a ground. I am using a 10k generator to power the entire house. The main panel, I am using the 220v side of the panel, to split the 110v. So as to, even the load to both sides of the main switch panel. The 220v circuits are turned off. Using only the 110v ones in a power outage. I can use a 220v circuit, but only if all the other 110v ones are turned off. Like using the hot water heater, or stove. Emergency A/C is using only 110v.
Great video. You're a good teacher. Love how you pointed to things on the camera, makes it easy.
How does this differ from an "automatic transfer switch" ?
Automatic Transfer Switch will switch all by itself, in case of a power outage.
A Transfer Switch requires a human to switch from A/C to Gen/Bat.
@@DavidHalko thanks. Makes me wonder how the switch works, since OP showed danger of the equipment being connected to the grid. Thanks for the response.
@@jaymedavis7567 - when I worked in a shop with a automatic transfer switch, there was a spring loaded knife switch… when the power could no longer run the relay, the knife switch SNAP’ed into place! Man! What a sound! Emergency lights came on. The UPS came on, the generator would then spin up. The UPS would shut down, and normal lighting resume.
That was years ago, but some things don’t change. The bigger the air gap in contacts, the safer from arc’ing. The bigger the springs, the faster the switchover time.
@@DavidHalko really helpful! Thanks!
called bypass 😁
ok, but can we use these transfer switches if the second power source is solar?
See This Is All Ready In The New XW 4868 Me 3 x old units 4860 Can Go 2 AC Input 1 & 2 Gen All On Transfer S/W @ 60amp + Me By 3 X 180 amp S/w & 15 Years OLD Still Gets It Done
Technically you could tie the two lines on the generator input to a single line from a 120v generator if all of the circuits are 120v, but not if any are 240v as you appear to have one of.
120v circuits only, I don’t run any 220v equipment at this location
@@jehugarcia What are the two in the middle that are tied together, usually for 240v for?
Combining two phases that share a neutral because your inverter is only 120V is dangerous. You could potentially be overloading that neutral wire from two circuits. You will burn out that wire and the breakers won’t trip. Be careful your circuits have dedicated neutrals.
The standards are 15 amps and either 25 or 30 for a stove or dryer. Depending. Or charging station for your vehicle or 120 volt .
A lot of new houses have 20 amp breakers for the normal receptacle circuits. I just had a 50 amp electric stove circuit installed.
We definitely don’t see 10 amp circuits installed in new buildings but I’m sure there are still some old setups with them.
Wow I’m mad I misssed when you first posted this I just added a other sub just for the powerwall and disconnected the main ac power at the source of the load …so I have the powerwall powering my living room 24/7
Transfer switches are great because it gives you the option to switch back to mains power by flipping the breakers, or connecting a generator.
@@AllAroundTube50 or have a hybrid inverter and it does the same thing
@@Shmade0304 but what happens when your mains power goes down -aren't you illegally feeding power back in to the grid if you are using a sub-panel. The transfer switch isolates those 6 circuits from the mains power supply, so you can keep your power on at all times without endangering linesmen.
The generator connection to the sub panel can not be turned on without disconnecting from the main power circuit. So there is no way to backfeed the grid when installed correctly.
@@AllAroundTube50 hybrid inverters are isolated from the grid. An example of a hybrid inverter would be a Tesla Powerwall. Hybrid inverters are installed by permit only and therefore by an electrical contractor. Yes the powerwall can backfeed the grid, but that is called net metering which is allowed.
Hey man how would you make a automotive jump pack using your batteries
I would use 4s headways or 3s lipo packs
@@jehugarcia 4s lipo
there's that guy where has
he been ?
Do you have anymore of those power wall box
It’s diy, you can build as many as you want
Just wondering are you using 230 3 phase or 460 3 phase as building supply. Here we are normally 460 3 phase.
No idea
His building suite is 208/120v 3 phase. Some buildings are supplied with 480/277 volt 3 phase system and each suite has to install a transformer for all the 120 volt and 208 volt loads. In those buildings the lights in the lobby areas and in the parking lots are powered by 277 volts and the large A/C units on the roof are 480 volt units! Although each suite could have their own A/C unit on the roof that is 208 volts.
@@uhjyuff2095 That Is Right
@@uhjyuff2095 what we use is transformer 480 to 240/120. Outdoor an warehousing lite are 277 wild leg. When i watched video what thru me was the 3 legs of 120 volts in order for trans switch to work from the inverter shown. Thanks again.
@@jehugarcia just wanted to let you know i really enjoy your videos. Keep them coming👍
Hi Jehu, thanks for video. I have two of these for total of 20 circuits and am using for off grid solar/battery setup with the option of switching to grid for any individual circuit as the backup (I’m using the grid as the backup for my solar/battery setup whereas you are using your battery as backup for the grid). If my battery is lower than desired SOC entering into the evening, I switch some of the higher power drawing devices to the grid to reduce the loads. I would love to have a transfer switch like this in which we can remotely or automatically have any of the individual circuits switch over from solar/battery to grid and vice versa based on battery SOC and presence of backup. I know their is a SPAN box that exists for solar/battery systems but it switches off a circuit if SOC too low but doesn’t switch to other source. My observation with the reliant transfer switch box is that if you switch any given circuit switch between grid and backup fast enough, the loads I have don’t even turn off (eg computers, computer switches, etc.) during the transfer. Not that I’m recommending doing this..
I wonder if any of the SwitchBot Smart Switch Button Pushers would be strong enough to do this.
Mpp solar all in one inverters have the ATS and you can set Battery voltage level when the ats switches back and forth.
@@ecospider5 hi thanks for this suggestion . It’s an interesting product
Thanks Jehu
Those two red ones should be for 220 so don't try to use it with only 110 input on it.
It’s just 2 separate switches mechanically tied together, they don’t have to be used for 220v circuit, you can run two 110v circuits on them no problem
@@jehugarcia The interlock is the purpose for the 220 and vice versa. You give a lot of good information on your channel, be careful. Like using three lithium ion batteries to start a car, ok but not without a blocking diode as the alternator will charge it to high.
I'm looking at american wiring and am like "Dude wtf is this shit, this is a main panel?"
nope, the main panel is in the Electrical room or outside of the building in a large cabinet. He is in a divided suite within the building.
All these buildings have sketchy work on them, I’m not an electrician and even I can see all the code violations. This panel is a lot neater than what I found first time I opened it after moving in.
Well seems to me as the previous owner did the wiring himself and didnt care about it too much. I'm working as an automation engineer in Luxembourg, we are mostly usig German codes for our wiring, sometimes also French ones but not all too often as they mostly have one-phase only circuits.... If I would come up with something similar I would be (ironically) hanged by the cables I just slapped into the panel😂
Man I am left scratching my head. What on earth? Seriously there must be an easier way to explain this.
Lol there is
This is so simple to connect to panel box, WHY would you want to pay a electrician $300. dollar to put this small 6 breaker box in?????? Every thing installation wise is on Utube video's at least 10 times, from install to complete, also you need an outside plug for your generator & connection to the transfer switch......
I back feed the grid every day….with sunshine. If those monopoly bastards have successfully bribed the right politicians here in California, I will need to back feed a lot more of it to break even.
Why don't you look at doing 3 phase systems powered by batteries.
Because I don’t need 3 phase, hell I barely got 220v loads
each phase requires a single hf inverter or a big 3 phase LF transformer and those suck power when they are in standby mode.
@@uhjyuff2095 Not That Much & Why Be In Standby ? See Them Sell The Power @ High Rate @ Night Off Battery Making Bank Too
@@jehugarcia No Hot Water Heater ? Or AC unit? Or Wash & Dryer? Ok Not Real Home Or Shop Ok Sorry Sorry Again
@@FixItStupid When I turn the switch on the inverter is on therefore consuming a lot of power. 3 phase would require 3 inverters so three inverters switched on draining the battery even though no lights are on. I hope you realize inverters get their power from a battery, what size battery do you think it takes to power a A/C unit that is 3 phase! lol
Maybe it would be better to have two inverters so you can split the phases?
This reminded me of alien isolation
the title is missing a "n" 😋
Thanks
Ill make it look purty for $1,000.00
Hello. I think this is a bit useless and too complicated. I made my own switch it is simple it will not do what you are doing because it looks nice on the paper usually in reality it will not be like that. but for 3kW unit it doesn't matter much.
I used two interconnected contactors, one relay, two capacitors to correct for those huge contactors and two timers (optional).. If i have solar power/dc power ..what ever power it will connect it and activate relays and contactors..once i will not have power it will disconnect and connect contactors from grid....It is simple and i have it on whole house
✨✨🌟🌜💖2022💖🌛🌟✨✨
I would like to tell you about the grid systems we have in the USA. Please get the systems right just like when you sell batteries you don't say here is my 38 volt battery when in fact it is a 36 volt battery. Here you go... 120/240 volt, 120/208 volt, and 277/480 volt. Thank you for reading this and I hope you can teach others with this information.
No you don’t make any sense to me, 36v batteries can be anywhere from 30v to 42v. People call the us grid 110/220 and 120/240 other times. So what exactly is your point?
@@jehugarcia That is my point, why are all these people including yourself saying 110/220 volt when the correct grid system in the USA is 120/240 volt. I don't think I was alive when the USA grid was 110/220 volt system. Yep, in 1984 the NEC changed all calculations based off of 120 volts.
I see that listed in equipment all the time, I read it online all the time, you say it’s one way but others say it’s the other way. I don’t think calling it one way or the other is that important so I don’t care
@@jehugarcia So I was working on my house today! and I replaced all the 110 volt receptacles! Then I plugged in my 115 volt fan into the receptacle and turned on my 125 volt led light fixture to read a book! Doesn't matter to me either they are just numbers on the internet at this point and electricity is just magic wizardry that cannot be explained because it is purely an unknown phenomenon.
Dude! Have you ever heard of a fucking electrical diagram? They're used to explain electrical circuits and you'd be suprised how well they work, certainly they work much better than pointing your finger at very sophisticated electrical equipment. Of course there's this thing called a white board and you can use to make diagrams and such that are very useful to understand the particulars about a circuit. Buy yourself a book on circuits and who knows maybe you'll learn something knew. Being a bit sophisticated is not a bad thing.
Such a confusing explanation. Get your terminology right and it might be less confusing for others.