Did You Know In THE RINGS OF POWER…
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- čas přidán 13. 11. 2022
- That fans of the original books by J.R.R Tolkein were left confused by a big reveal in the Amazon-produced series? Fans of Amazon Studios' reprisal of The Lord of the Rings universe ‘The Rings of Power’ were kept waiting until the final episode of the season before it was revealed who the villain of the story, Sauron, really was. Was Sauron the mysterious stranger who had fallen from the sky in a comet? Was he one of the evil cult-like figures who were hunting the Stranger? Or, was he Halbrand, the self-imposed “King of the Southlands”. Well, if you had read the J.R.R Tolkein text ‘The Silmarillion’ you would have known that “Sauron” was a shapeshifter who went by the name of ‘Annatar,’ before becoming the dark lord. However, when it was revealed in the show that Sauron was, in fact, Halbrand after all, many fans of Tolkein’s text were up in arms about the show-breaking lore. However, there is a good reason for this. Amazon only acquired the rights for Tolkien's ‘The Lord of the Rings’ and ‘Hobbit’ books, and not ‘The Silmirillian,’ so they had to break lore and create a completely new character to play the dark lord Sauron in the show.
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Real fans of Tolkien were not mad. They were not watching to begin with.
True I gave up the moment I saw the damn hobbits and dwarven women with no BEARDS.
True..
How LoTR fans feel about RoP is exactly how I feel about the Witcher Netflix show. It's an absolute disgrace.
@@mastermax2792 not when you saw black hobbits?
Yes exactly you could just feel the...Fake attempt. My grandma was on a HOTD and ROP binge and literally just hearing the dialogue I wanted to gag. HOTD won this round, and I wasn't even into game of thrones before then.
"We're going to base a series on a novel/set of stories _without buying the rights to that IP._ Then, we'll change *all the most important parts* to avoid lawsuits.... wait, why is everybody mad?"
- Some executive.
Ah yes a billion dollar company’s fan fic
I was wondering why tf is sauron a regular guy? Great f*cken evil corruptor who breed uruks from kidnapped elves, and poisons the world and his right hand man a random mf they call a wizard that doesn't use and magic and just wanted to be a blacksmith. tf? I also thought calabrimbor was commissioned to make the rings by sauron as an elf not just randomly accepts this human mf'ers random idea.
@@x0gucx Couple of things first, it is in the lore that Sauron was momentarily good after Morgoth's hold on him had broken and even considered sailing to valinor to seek forgiveness but he eventually decided against it.
Also, Sauron lore wise didn't commission the elven rings, just the human and the dwarf ones. But they fucked it up time line wise.
They didn’t want to sell it, so they bought what they could, which is the extra of what you see in the show.
@@HSG1999 And that is precisely the problem. If the Tolkein braintrust doesn't have faith in you to produce a proper show, maybe... don't?
“Fans of Amazon studios’ reprisal of the original ‘Lord of the Rings’ universe were kept waiting until the final episode of the season.” Ahh yes, I’m sure all three of them were absolutely dying of suspense.
Roflmao.
I'm amazed anyone endured to watch the entire season.
It was fantastic I can’t wait for the second season
@@bilbobagsacs6112 you- you’re alone there buddy…
“We didn’t have the rights to the story we wanted to tell so we just used the names and places to make a new story”… This isn’t Tolkiens work.
Tolkien literally wanted his work to be expanded by other peoples creative minds. So why do you care so much when Tolkien wanted it like this himself.
@@mauriceweber9840 I’m sorry what? Tolkien was a purest about his work and refused to sell the movie rights on multiple occasions because he knew how people would change it 😂
@@mauriceweber9840 expand on his work, not re-invent stories, he already had told. Why did Amazon not tell us a new story, like for example the adventures of the Blue Wizards in the east and west?
@@Benevolent_Fafnir to be fair, he did sell the rights to theater adaptions several times in his life because he needed the money and was not amused about the outcome, but i think Amazons "interpretation" would have been too much even for him.
@@mauriceweber9840no he did not, that quote from Tolkien was a jest, people using it take it out of context.
Can we honestly stop pretending “Didn’t buy the correct rights” is an actual legitimate excuse? It’s literally “Too cheap and lazy” but worded different.
Yeah its like if someone bought the brand new Xbox I'm going to pretend is now coming out but when it arrived it was just a crappy PC with no Xbox exclusives, services or controllers and when we asked what that was up with that they said they didn't hold the rights or patients to make an Xbox or use any Xbox services
Hard to say with the $1 billion budget
Yeah we all know the estate would have let them do it properly.
Yeah it wasn't a rights issue that made the whole thing 100% predictable, or every main character being a casual sociopath. ROP is bad because it's soulless writing from a soulless corporation.
They bought the right to the appendix of The Lord of the Rings if I remember correctly. Annatar is in the appendix where it goes over how the rings of power were forged.
If they didn't have the rights THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT. PERIOD,
END OF SENTENCE. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. Then not having the IP is NOT a good reason to break lore, it's a good reason to PAY TO USE THE IP.
Or leave it alone and make a story of your own.
I didn't like RoP very much, mainly because the writing was very bad, not because it 'broke with the lore'. Couple of reasons for this: 1) There is no 'lore' in Tolkien. It is a legendarium, filled with conflicting and contradictory accounts. Tolkien changed his mind about a lot of things over the course of his life, and furthermore presented Middle Earth as a real history which he was essentially researching and speculating about. Literally nothing in Middle Earth should be seen as 100% canonically accurate, Tolkien himself wouldn't have liked that.
Second, I quite liked not knowing what was going to happen. I must have read the Silmarillion a dozen times, I'm very familiar with the big three First Age stories, and I've read most of the other Christopher Tolkien publications at least once. Getting something entirely new (albeit inauthentic) appeals to me. I don't mind a production essentially being a high-budget fanfiction, as long as it is open about it. And to be fair to Amazon, they said from the very beginning that it wouldn't be entirely faithful to the original texts.
I can also forgive Amazon on this basis: imagine you are an Amazon executive. You go to the notoriously difficult-to-negotiate-with Tolkien estate, and tell them you want to make a TV series. After long and costly negotiations, they finally agree to grant you rights to use _some_ material. Except the only fully developed stories you could possibly tell with those rights are the ones that have already been told in the Jackson trilogies. Given the nature of your job, would you honestly just say "nah we'll leave it alone", or would you seize on the incredibly rare opportunity to be allowed to use one of the most recognisable IPs in all modern popular culture? Be entirely honest here.
Having said all that... yes RoP was bad. But I do think they could have made an excellent reimagining, using the source material available to them, if only the actual writing had been any good. I would have been fine with that.
@@monkeymox2544 they didn't respect it enough to put any heart into it.
@@isaac13d Yeah I agree it had very little heart to it. I don't know if we can legitimately attribute that to a lack of respect on the basis of the available evidence.
Personally, I suspect a 'too many cooks' kind of situation, coupled with the kind of scene-by-scene driven writing that ruins so many modern franchises. There's probably a technical term for this, I'm not a writing critic. I mean the kind of writing where the writers seem to think something would be 'cool', and shove it in with no real regard for any of the characters' motivations, or anything that has occurred previously, or anything that will happen later. The kind of writing which assumes the audience isn't paying attention, basically).
@@monkeymox2544 i think the technical term is "Incompetence"...
Just gonna point out that Tolkien Untangled has 9 hours of him outlining how Rings of Power could have been MUCH better with the same exact rights as Amazon actually had, which means that the excuse-o-meter has officially hit -1
Him who? Tolkein has been dead for a while and his son Chritopher died in 2020.
@@joshualittle877 CZcamsr Tolkien Untangled
No one was left confused by the Sauron’s reveal. It was painfully obvious from episode one, you just have to listen to the things halbrand says
Not to be picky, but Halbrand first appeared in episode 2. So probably from *his first episode.* But yeah, it's obvious.
I was surprised in the sense that surely it wouldn't have been the obvious choice, same with gandalf.
You could have found out before he was even introduced tbh.
@@DJOfRadioGallifrey He was in the trailers. So yeah it was "from episode one"
nah! most fans already guess at the earliest that halbrand is sauron its so transparent. most critics of the show kept calling him not sauron at 3rd episode mark.
Second
Well the show just boring, I don't even care about this fanfiction 🤣
“Apperances can be deceiving”
HOW SUBTLE!
LOOK AT HOW SUBTLE WE ARE, GUYS!
YOU CAN’T POSSIBLY TELL THAT HE IS SAURON!
OH LOOK, HE IS EVEN INTERESTED IN SMITHING!
THAT DOESN’T SOUND LIKE SAURON!
NO SIR! SAURON HATES SMITHING!
YOU ARE STUPID, WE ARE SMART!
- J.D Payne and Patrick McKay
@@8158bolgafor me the major tip-off was when he beat the numenoreans in a street fight.
It was more of this has to be a red herring because if it's not.......😅
Exactly why they shouldn’t have made the show
And even if they had all the rights they’d still also only butcher that as well
How about you shut up
@@heofnorenown I’d could make the story better just follow the lore
Sauron is like prophet of allah
That wasn’t the only issue people had with this show😂
i read all the original tolkien books including the unfinished ones. i didnt have any issues with the show. I never watched it to begin with. As soon as I saw the "woke" advertising i knew it was a no-go.
"Let's stick to the lore!"
-"But we don't have the rights to the lore!"
"Ok, then just lets do whatever we want."
This is not "A good reason" to break lore and create a completely new character.
Fans of Tolkien knew Halbrand was Sauron from episode 1 man, but we couldn’t believe Amazon shitted their own show from start.
episode 2 was halbrand's first.
@@DJOfRadioGallifrey Exactly, and we knew he was Sauron before he appeared.
@Francisco José Cardenete de las Heras Didn't the one dude say they wanted to send Galadriel back home because she would bring Sauron back? Pretty sure that was in the first episode lol.
Fans were shocked the person jokingly nicknamed "Definitely not Sauron" from the literal start of the show was Sauron? Are you sure about that?
Did that happen in the first scene of the first episode? 🤔
@@torontomame it happened during the trailers for the show before the first scene ever aired
Starting from episodes 1-3 the popular nicknames of those 3 candidates you mentioned were “Definitely not Sauron”, “definitely not Gandalf”, and “Feminem”
Yes I’m sure everyone was “shocked”
The fans of Tolkien were right to crap on that series. From even before the show came out.
today in the brand new episode of I AGREE i say
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE
The writers said in an interview they changed it from annatar to halbrand to surprise book readers. Of course in another interview they said they werent trying to surprise/trick anyone, soo...
Whoever at Amazon who hired these show runners needs to be fired, they are incompetent.
Well I’m another interview(s) they also pointed out that any criticism of the show was due to toxic fans so why would they be fired all the legitimate reviews were perfect?
They do not have the rights to use the Name Annatar. It is from unfinished tales
I believe that Sauron being Annatar was in the appendices of the Lord of the Rings, so was the backstory for Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, and Gil-galad.....
Amazon bought the rights for the Lord of the Rings INCLUDING the Appendices..... So to claim that they remade the lore because they don't have the rights is quite questionable...
Most likely, they just wanted to make the 2nd Age to be what they wanted regardless of the lore.
Not Sauron was Sauron and the writers rejoiced for they thought they were clever.... and then the fans wept
They should have made a story based on the blue wizards. Either they did good in the East to cause revolts against Sauron worship or they could have fallen to evil like Saruman. Something Tolkien didn’t expand on but they went and tried to retcon the Silmarillion.
Yeah like slowing down Sauron in building alliances in the east and south, which may have actually happened
Yeah and they couldve had most of the dei tokens , and couldve actually made sense. Hell they would've had a lot of gaps they couldve filled in if they did of the east
the only thing that was shocking was:
1. the amount of hubris that the creators had in thinking that they could "improve" on a literary genius like Tolkien.
2. the amount of contempt the actors had for the intended customers of the show. blaming everything but themselves for their failure.
Tolkien himself said he wants other people with creative minds fill the holes in his work.
@@mauriceweber9840which they couldve done with the blue wizards and the easterlings
dude... no one was surprised? everyone knew he was sauron from the beginning...
There is absolutely no reason a human should watch this willingly
It's why this is a fan fiction prequel and not an adaptation of the 1A and 2A of lotr
"Lotr has no amazon show. Lotr needs no amazon show..."
The “sudden” reveal that Halbrand was Sauron. So sudden in fact that the moment Halbrand made an appearance he was given the name “not Sauron” by Nerdrotic.
“Sewerun” 💀
To be fair, at least he’s more likable than Guyladriel
I was looking for some one to say it! He said also "Tolkiieen"😂
when my ol lady told me about this I got super excited! but when I asked if Petey Jack was coming back in any role whatsoever and she said “no..” so I said okay.. well.. that’s not off to a good start.. oh? And it was made by ..who? Amazon…?! Tf?
HARD PASS.
Why’d everyone say it was Halbrand from the first teaser trailer? 😂🤣
So instead of adapting the books they had the rights for into full series based on the books accurately, gaining FOR SURE the love of the tolkien fandom they had to:
1: break lore
2: insult the lore
3: insult the fans
The failure is well earned
You can't defend this monstrosity of a show. Breaking lore by definition ruins the entire thing.
They didn't have to break lore they wanted to and enjoyed it every step of the way
Firstly, those who love Tolkien's work wondered why the travesty called Rings of Power was made in the first place.
Secondly, it is Sauron not yee haw Souron.
Bllsht that was. The Rings of power I mean
The real Sauron was the friend we made along the way.
If you can't acquire the proper rights to do justice to a piece of work then maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place?
That's not a good reason. That's idiocy.
The whole setup in this short is harder to follow then to know that halbrand was sauron.
One we didn't watch and two from the small snippets of footage we did see of that atrocity it was blatantly obvious that it was helbrand. Out of all the characters that didn't exist i.e. Harfoots, helbrand, GUYladriel, the dwarf queen, the stranger, the weird witch cult, elf dude who was with the orcs, female orcs, Don Lemonless elf and his human girlfriend, Isildur’s sister, Númenoreans who didn’t know how to fight, Gurlboss of Númenor. He was about as evident as it was that they didn't give two shits about Tolkien's actual work.
They didn't have the rights to the Silmarilion, but they show things depicted in that book.
Everyone knew who he was was episode 2....
I thought it was him, but then they kept not having him make wonders and bringing gifts and ended not even being that famous or popular in Numenor before they left so I was like "I guess it wasn't him after all", but then he was.
Lol when i watched rings of power, i saw at first sight that the man from the sky was Gandalf, because his age is estimated to be something like 25000yrs. Also the episode before last episode show'd clearly who Sauron is
They did not have to break lore... they could have made a tv show with the actual material they had rights to.
The appendices in the lord of the ring books pretty much covers a lot of the content in the Silmarillion though.
Fans were "up in arms" much earlier then the final episode.
Erm, we don't grant this series the honour of having 'Lord Of The Rings' in its title. It's an insult to Tolkiens lifelong work
Um.....
No, Amazon didn't get the rights to The Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit. They got the rights to the appendices that is why they had to make this game fiction. And as Tolkien fan I'm glad because I can only imagine the harm they would have done to the legendarium if they had the rights to all.
this was the most obvious reveal ever
Hahahahahaha! Everyone guessed well before the final episode who the villain was.
And this is why we should never let big companies take the things we love. They can only fuck it up.
Sauron is in the appendices. there was 3 major story lines they could have explored, they didn't care, just get that message out there no matter how much they butcher the story. not having the rights is no excuse to do what they did. They had way more rights than they could ever cover in 5 seasons of this terrible show.
Absolute idiocy and total disrespect to Tolkien. It's not even sad anymore, it's just... bruh
Even better, they only got the rights to the appendices of LOTR and The Hobbit.
Real Tolkien fans who were aware of what modern Hollywood does knew it was Halbrand and shit right away.
Amazon: *makes crappy show entirely different from Tolkien's work*
Also Amazon: "if you don't like our shit, you're racist."
So... they created fanfiction. The rings of power is fanfiction.
In other news, water is wet
"There was a reason..." Yeah incompetence
Anyone a fan of the rings of power isn't a Tolkien fan.
It was blatantly obvious who sauron was. Anyone who was a true fan of lord of the rings was confused through the whole series because nothing matched the books. Characters were alive thousands of years before they should of been. Characters magically teleported everywhere. Galadriel was an emotionless pit of a character that only had one facial expression throughout the entire series. There was no real character arc for any of the characters in the series. The only thing that this series had similar to the books was the names of characters and that was it. It’s just names used to make money off of the beloved books and movies. In the original movies the extras were required to have read the books in order to be in the movie and it seems like no one making this series had ever read the books or even watched the movies. This series is nowhere near the worth of 2 billion dollars.
I really wish everything wasn’t about money simply so thousands of fans can truly get an accurate depiction of what the author intended
If you READ the Silmarillion you would know that Sauron Is a creation and servant of Melkor, One of the ainur created by eru illuvatar himself. So Sauron Is an ancient creature older than the 5 wizards themselves
Melkor didnt create Sauron, Sauron was named mairon before Melkor and was one of the strongest maiar.
So they only acquired the rights to lord of the rings and the hobbit….and decided to do a completely different part of middle earth history to which they didn’t have the rights. No wonder I couldn’t make it past the first half of episode one.
When I saw the finale I thought the whole reveal is that he was Annatar taking the form of a false persona named Halbrand and everything that happened (the raft, etc) was all his doing, and that his true name just hasn't been revealed yet
Honestly, thematically it makes more sense to do it this way. If they had given him the same name as in the books everyone would’ve known who Sauron was from the beginning lol.
By changing it up they actually created a mystery around who Sauron was and made the audience feel deceived by the betrayal, like the elves were
They didn’t have to do Jack and just left Tolkien’s work alone.
Fans of the original books will also know you pronounced Tolkien wrong.... Jesus.
not a legitimate reason for screwing up the story in fact they should all be fired and start over with people that care about integrity of the real story
What happened was, they bought the rights to some amazing material that didnt have the story they wanted to tell, so instead of telling the stories contained within, they told a story that didn't exist. So, they paid for the material, paid to make a show, and ended up angering fans of the franchise. All while spending more than anyone else has on a show, and handing the entire thing to show-runners that had a poor track record and very little experience. Who then ran probably the worse promotional campaign I have ever seen, which consisted of zero material from the show and focused on wokeness. Great work Amazon. This will set you back years.
We weren't just confused about that, we were confused as to why this abomination existed in the first place.
I'll just point out that almost everyone I know that watched this show said that the hellbrand, or how his name is written, is Sauron. It wasn't a secret and was clumsily done.
Let's spend a quarter billion dollars on the rights to the books we don't need... fucking amazon... screwed this one up big
Dude that's like if you wanted to broadcast a sport event and instead of acquiring the rights to broadcast games you only acquire rights to broadcast practice sessions and now you want to make them look like an actual game.
If can't use the texts from other books, then stay in the book that you have. Don't change anything because you won't be able to fix it.
This does nothing but confirm Amazon’s irresponsibility towards a great story.
I'm positive the WNBA has more fans than this show...
However Amazon had a good reason for this. They’ve probably never read anything by JRR Tolkien
We weren’t left confused, we were left pissed off and over the show.
And that's just 1 of 1000's lore they broke...
This show is a disgusting plague on Tolkien.
No one was surprised. We were disappointed and annoyed
Real Tolkien fan here. This show is not LOTR. It's fanfic created by non-fans, to make as much money as possible
Definitely watching the original trilogy and reading the books instead of caring about whatever garbage this is.
I don’t think a single person was neither confused or surprised that Halbrand was Sauron. I knew immediately. It was so painfully obvious.
I am a fan of the literary work of Tolkien, and I wasn't up in arms about it. I didn't care enough to be up in arms or even enough to watch the show.
Excellent job pointing this out, not many fans of the books took the opportunity to read and find out that this was in fact the truth of it
No Tolkien fan was confused about the reveal, instead we're probably all confused about why you called "not having IP for Silmarillion" a "good reason" for not following lore, when making a show about stuff that happened in Silmarillion.
Real fan of Tolkien here. I knew it was Sauron after the third episode. The whole show was so badly written I just didn’t care and still don’t. 😂
Not having the rights to the Silmarillion is not a good excuse for lore breaking!
What they did was basically make a show based on a book.... But without the book - which is to say: they ripped Tolkien off.
I think not having the rights to the Silmarillion was a good reason to stick to what they owned instead of making up new crap and claiming it was faithful to Tolkien. 🙄
The rings of power was a mistake, it is a stain on the legacy of Tolkiens work.
This show is an alternate reality seperate from the actual Tolkien universe to me.
If they had no rights of the silmarilion, they had no right to do a prequel series.
Real Tolkien fans didn’t watch rings of power in the first place and that’s wrong sauron wasnt known as annatar he only took that form when he courrupted the elves into making the rings of power his original name is mairon when he turned evil he had many names Sauron and gorthaur the cruel the necromancer ect he took the form of annatar briefly claiming to be a messenger of the valar annatar wasn’t his actual name !
The villain of the show is its writers and producers
Solution: Don’t change the story. If you can’t obtain the license, then don’t make it, or make a different story using it as inspiration. There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery
The way the narrator pronounces certain pop culture character names really grinds my gears.
That's how you know how loyal the fan base who read the books are
So happy they didn’t purchase “The Silmarillion,” they would’ve ruined so much lore…
Sounds like Amazon's legal team is sh*t.
I think everyone who watches the show knew in reality. There are a lot if signs and it's just really easy to assume. But I think some people still hoped (including myself) that maaaaybe they would have a little more care with their multi million dollar show.