Mass Effect 3 - Why You Should SABOTAGE THE GENOPHAGE CURE
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2022
- In this video, ‘we’re going to explore why you should sabotage the genophage cure in Mass Effect 3. We’ll play a little bit of devil’s advocate and talk about all the compelling reasons that you could make this decision from a roleplaying standpoint.
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Next Big Dan video, "Why you should join the Reapers and keep the cycle going".
Join the side of Reapers to abduct females. Win win
@@leediaz5690 SHE KNOWS TOO MUCH
I mean, that's what I did
Next video: "Why Cerberus was completely justified in everything they do."
Big Dan indoctrination theory
I could never betray Wrex
Loyalty, hm?
@@theultimatedragoon2231 Wrex is awesome.
@@NicoTheCinderace Then Paragon path is for both.
I killed Wrex in ME1, so..
@@arisakathedappergoose4796 You goddamn monster!
With Wreav in charge, sure he seems out of his mind. With Wrex however there's hope for a Krogan redemption. They deserve a second chance. Also betraying Wrex just feels so... wrong. This just shows how great Bioware was at writing characters.
Wrex ain't gonna live forever. Nor is Eve. What then?
Problems don't get fixed once and go away forever. Look at real life politics. We backslide on issues all the time. Once Wrex and Eve are dead and gone, what's to stop another Wreav from taking power and restarting the Krogan Rebellions?
This is a classic case of people getting overcome by emotion and not seeing the bigger picture. People (including me) tend to like Wrex, which makes them willing to ignore the general Krogan population.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Yeah, almost every Krogan you meet is a violent brute that lives only to fight and kill. Curing the Genophage is, to quote Mordin, "like giving nuclear weapons to cavemen".
@@jirkazalabak1514 Actually if we save Rachni , they could be used against Krogan aggression. Because Reapers didnt damage Tuchanka , Krogans only suffered heavy losses in Palaven. Turians , Asari , Humans suffered heavy losses and if other Krogans defeat Wrex , they will surely go after revenge. Hell even Wrex talks about he will want new planets from council. Today he will want 10 , tomorrow he will want 50. Not all Krogan shares his ideals. Yes Genophage is morally incorrect but it didnt happened randomly. Krogan were brutal to wanting to throw asteroid on the planets they cant conquer. Now entire 3 games theyre trying to build sympathy. I hope theyll use that chance given by Shepard well.
@@jirkazalabak1514 yeah I don't trust Krogan. They'll go to war after the reapers are gone
I played Mass Effect trilogy some times but I never could betray Wrex. (Yes, he was alive in my every gameplay) He’s my favourite Krogan and he’s such a badass😂 I should go… and play this game once again 😁😂
Paragon path hm?
@@theultimatedragoon2231 Yes sir 😂 you too? Or are you more into renegade stuff?
@@jakubwasowicz9135 I personally prefer the renegade, though I build a Shepard who valuates those who are loyal to her. That means She isn't a psycho.
When you done meeting the asari on the ciidel start the levistan or citadel dlc then jsut return to nornandy from the dlc and you will never get the scen of killing wrex so he lives and shows up st the final battle downside he eont be in the citdel dlc and wont shiw up at the slide shows at the end but is in wverything else hes included in after the “cure”
@@theultimatedragoon2231 When you done meeting the asari on the ciidel start the levistan or citadel dlc then jsut return to nornandy from the dlc and you will never get the scen of killing wrex so he lives and shows up st the final battle downside he eont be in the citdel dlc and wont shiw up at the slide shows at the end but is in wverything else hes included in after the “cure”
In French, the Renegade path is called Pragmatic. Which is interesting because that choice is pragmatically the best, even if it doesnt fit with many people's values.
Fits with my values 100%. Just replayed as renegade and I feel like most choices are just sane normal logical now. Unlike paragon pomptious virtue signaling bs.
@@maxmaxed2887Paragon is the classical "principled approach" and the rare moments when we go beyond our base humanity to fight for better ideals.
Renegade is the "conventional approach" where your choices hinge on the outcome and results and make do with understanding a deeper sense of humanity and not seeing it as a weakness, but strength. It does not excuse harm, but uses it as a powerful tool to enact a greater good.
This is why can’t think of everything this way in life. You can’t see peoples lives on a map. Same mistake Mordin made.
@@KenBro05 so you are ok with Krogans exterminating the galaxy?
@@maxmaxed2887 can krogans not evolve, also if they do another krogan rebellion, there is enough military might in the galaxy to supress them, WE ARE MERELY GIVING THEM A CHANCE AT A BASER CIVILIZATION BY UPLIFTING THEM!!!
Thanks to the Leviathan DLC, there is a way to keep Wrex alive. But you have to be very very careful that you never go to the Normandy via docking bay.
really?
@@shadoww6230 yes, since script tied with usage of docking bay at certain point of story.
You will also Keep Krogans as war asset, thanks to this
@im Susanov does wrex still show up on the citadel dlc?
@@collincaperton6718 no he doesn't. And you must finish most parts of the DLC including the Party before going to speak to the Asari Councilor. Otherwise, he'll be waiting for you when you board the Normandy after the Party.
@@manofwarb Does it happen if I just enter the room or do I actively have to press on that door?
btw I don’t want to kill Wrex either but I see the Genophage as necessary due to overpopulation.
Its only ethical to sabotage if it's not Wrex in charge
Wrex being or not in the picture changes the context hm?
The only time I sabotaged was where I did a play through where Wreav was leading
@@theultimatedragoon2231 wrex want to prove that the krogans are a people capable of more than fighting. Unlike his brother
@@arthurd.8766 Eve said even If He tries that, He will be influentiated by the will of his people after all.
@@theultimatedragoon2231 tbf, it kinda doesn't, we see krogan who are just peaceful and talk and live among other beings.
If I'm not mistaken, the cutscene with Garrus plays out differently when Wrex is alive and you're forced to kill him for discovering the sabotage. I don't remember exactly but Garrus calls out Shepard for sabotaging the cure and killing Wrex
I think so. For one of the talks, I think Shepard stays silent and Garrus is there supporting her/Him.
Now I don't remember what He said after you kill Wrex.. that part is blurry for me.
If you kill Mordin, this will happen. When Garrus asks; "Did Mordin just go along with it", Shepard will stay silent, and Garrus says; "I hate this war", and the scene cuts out...
@@MikeThomassen This becomes harsh if you did Garrus romance path.
When you done meeting the asari on the ciidel start the levistan or citadel dlc then jsut return to nornandy from the dlc and you will never get the scen of killing wrex so he lives and shows up st the final battle downside he eont be in the citdel dlc and wont shiw up at the slide shows at the end but is in wverything else hes included in after the “cure”
@@theultimatedragoon2231 Oof. It would.
I don’t think I would ever choose this option. I love Mordin, but him being willing to sacrifice his own life to try and end the genocide he helped to put into action on two occasions, seems like a good end for him to me. Even though it hurt me on every one of my playthroughs.
If wrex and eve are dead then Motrin’s sacrifice would get spat on by the krogan as they wage war on the already wounded galaxy.
Oh god he was the very model of a scientist Salarian 😭😭😭😭
If Wrex is dead sabotaging the cure makes more sense tbh, since the Krogan under Wreav would definitely go back to their old ways and you get both Salarian and Krogan support.
What about when Wrex dies of Old age
@@gaffgarion7049 Next in line is your son, Grunt, Grunt loves a good battle yes but still knows when to stop. Grunt with the teaching of Wrex and Shepard would honestly be pretty chill, seeking out actual threats to galaxy, like wise starting off with a mix clan he really does not see the other races in a bad light. Grunt would most likely be just 500 years of age in the next game meaning most likely the main leader now.
If Wrex is already dead, then the right choice is to sabotage the cure. The Krogan will just get themselves exterminated under that dumbass Wreav. At least, by prolonging it then maybe you can find a cure in the future when Wreav is no longer in charge. He seems to be younger than Wrex, but Wrex is old and I can’t imagine Wreav is much younger.
If Wrex is alive, cure it, if not let it stand. Kogan can grow and change, Wrex proves that. His brother isn't the same. He would seek war at the first chance.
Eh, but think about after Wrex dies of old age or in battle. His successor could be more violent than him and could overpopulate the Galaxy leading to conflict.
If the Krogan can grow and change, then they can grow and change with the genophage. They live about as long as the Asari, there is absolutely no reason they couldn’t just stop killing each other and commit to learning how to cure the genophage themselves.
And so could whoever replaces Wrex when he dies, either by assassination or old age (the latter of which is likely in the near future)
This is probably the video where I go “you’ve gone too far, Dan.”
Because?
@@theultimatedragoon2231 Because the Krogan deserve an opportunity for redemption under Wrex. Not to mention that the Dalatrass is a bitch.
Wrex was working hard to prove that the Krogan aren't what they were when the cure was sabotaged. He shows that not all Krogan are bloodthirsty monsters focused on revenge.
They are a civilization, like it or not. You may not agree, but I do not believe in screwing them over.
@@NicoTheCinderace What if Wrex isn't the one leading the Krogans, then?
@@theultimatedragoon2231 If Wreav is leading them, Then that's an _entirely_ different case to make. Because the events of Mass Effect 2 and 3 on the Krogan Homeworld play out *completely* differently.
@@NicoTheCinderace Then your issue is when Wrex is on the picture; you don't really focus on the genocide path, but instead if Wrex is present or not.
Holy shit the hottest take yet. I agree with most of the renegade decisions being put in Sheps position tbh. You can't afford to have fast breeding brutal warlords or telepathic bugs risking galactic extinction right after the reaper war. The Citadel races while flawed are actually open to dialogue most of the time.
One might argue Mordin's shift in beliefs in ME3 is just guilt overcoming his ability to think clearly - maybe the things he saw during his loyalty mission got under his skin, even if he didn't show it at the time. Maybe his failure to admit just how much it hurt him to see the effects of the genophage meant he never processed what he saw and it ate away at him psychologically. Maybe he's not so different to Maelon.
Plus the Krogan can live to be 1,400 years old and without the genophage, they have a fecundity rate of over 1,000 fertile eggs per female. I don’t know why that somehow never gets brought up.
So are the Krogan and the Rachni. The only reason the Rachni turned against everyone is because 1: they’d been seen as pests and almost exterminated by everyone for their _entire history,_ how _else_ would expect them to react to weird frog men coming into their home system? And 2: it wasn’t even their wish to fight. The Last Queen tells us outright that she could sense a “sourness” in the song of her predecessors, driving them to fight. If the Leviathans had just kept their tentacles out of matters, the Rachni would’ve been utterly benign, it dangerous to those who got too close to their territory. The Krogan…well, you can’t make a wolf _not be_ a wolf. When you’ve got a species of warriors that enjoy combat, don’t genetically neuter the entire damn race; give them jobs they’d excel in, like security and military support, and planets that no one else can live on to keep their numbers down. Hell you could even make it a challenge; “oh us poor weak humans and Asari can’t hope to colonize this world for the Citadel. Sure would be nice if a strong Krogan came in and DID THE IMPOSSIBLE for us. Oh what ever will we do”
They’d have overseers lining up in droves, everyone of them eager to serve the Council if it means they get new living space.
Sure, that may not have been an option years ago, but it is _now._ I will never, ever, condone what was done to the Krogan. Even my renegade playthrough’s end with the Genophage being cured, because even a heartless son of a bitch wouldn’t let an entire species die out from collective depression. In the aftermath of the Reaper War, with Wrex around to conk their heads together whenever they start acting stupid, the Krogan have a legitimate chance to become better than what they were.
We need more people like Garrus in our lives, someone with whom we can share our deepest darkest secrets, someone who would always have our backs, someone who would be with you till the end.
Like Putin
Man, Dan is much more evil than I thought.
Edit: Assuming Wreav is in power, and Eve is dead, then I would probably have second thoughts about curing the geophage.
agreed, Wrex and Eve are anomalies to the Salarian projections. With Wreav in charge, and Eve dead, everything in the simulations would play out exactly as the salarians fear.
I would be more devious than even that. I'd use the cure as leverage to have the Krogan assassinate Wreav and any Krogan that tries to start a war. "Anyone who shoots Wreav gets cured" is very very likely to result in most of Wreave's followers shooting him in the face and the rest getting shot for trying to defend Wreav.
Wrex and Eve are gonna die some day, and when they do who's to say the Krogan _stay_ peaceful? Without their guidance a lunkhead like Wreav could end up in charge and then the Krogan Rebellions could start again.
Sometimes the Evil decision is the Correct decision.
With Eve and Wrex alive, Grunt is the future of the Krogan and he's not driven by hatred, simply by living. That living may involve putting himself in absurdly dangerous situations, but that's what makes it fun. If Wrex or Eve aren't around then convincing Mordin to join you in sabotage is the best route.
They are all violent and eager to conquer and murder
I love these videos. It makes me laugh that I think about if Big Dan ever sent me an invite to a wedding or birthday party or something it would read something like "Why you should come to my wedding and kick over the whole buffet table!"
"In this video: why should you speak up or forever hold your peace"
"Why you should invite everyone you know to your wedding, then not get married and keep all the gifts for the best results", but only CZcams Big Dan. I'm sure real life Big Dan is a great person :)
I remember on one of my earliest playthroughs, ME1 was an Xbox exclusive, so playstation players got Wreave by default. During this mission I got curious and sabotaged the cure. During the vehicle ride with Wreave and Eve I could barely cope with my guilt of betraying Eve, but those scenes with Mordin riddled me with guilt. Once I realized the only way to stop Mordin was to shoot him, I felt so horrible that I didn't even finish the mission smh I restarted and took the paragon route ever since 😌
Shooting Bastarda hm?
You don’t need to kill Mordin to sabotage the cure if you have Wreave, Mordin can be convinced with words
You played the ps3 version? But that version has the Genesis comic. At least i have it and you can save Wrex there
@@jesussilva201 if I recall, it came out on PS3 during the times when publishers were trying to discourage buying second hand. If you bought it new, there was a code in the box to redeem for the comic. Used, good chance it was already claimed. Might explain it.
Congrats. You just doomed the Galaxy to another round of Krogan Rebellion.
This sucks, cuz I love Wrex
The Krogan aren’t ready for a cure.
If you win the Reaper War
The Krogan would out breed & conquer the galaxy post Reaper War
Eve comment could be crucial here.
@theultimatedragoon2231 Eve is a pebble. She can't stop the flood of violence.
Almost 100k subs!! I remember watching you when Mass Effect LE came out a couple years ago. With already a few playthroughs, I learned a lot from you from your vids!
Imagine an ME game set in a future predicated on curing the Genophage. Krogan have overrun the galaxy. You lead a rag tag group of resistance fighters trying to overthrow the new Krogan Empire. Put your Sheppard's sentimentality over Wrex (and Grunt) aside and see the bigger picture.
Agreed. The game very much wants you to think that curing the genophage is the right call, but honestly I have little doubt that within a few hundred years, the Morgan will be back to their usual antics. Two people is not enough for a cultural renaissance
Not with our livespam. But krogan lives for centuries. Wrex and Bakara can teach many generations.
I think the krogan with enough brainchild would understand that this is another chance for there species to prosper
It be silly for them to screw it up, I Mean I'm sure other krogan would keep the dummer ones in check
Fun Fact for those who haven't played it, in Mass Effect Andromeda, the Krogan who were part of the initiative, left the Milky Way before the war with the Reapers, so they weren't cured. And yet life still finds a way as in the post game content would show, there are is a clutch of new healthy Krogan babies born after the events of the story, with hints that Krogan are naturally adapting and overcoming the genophage slowly. So curing or not the genophage in the Milky Way doesn't stop the Krogan who wake up in Andromeda 600+ years later from repopulating at their own pace.
andromeda is non canon
"life still finds a way" ?
in Andromeda ? Not really... is mostly an un-inspired and one-brain-cell story writing ...
Genophage wasn't sterility per se, one would can even imply that on a such mission they would pick the guaranteed fertile options :)
@@krixpop They literally introduce a female Krogan who is immune to the genophage in ME3 out of nowhere
@@rileydavidson180 she's not immune for no reason
She's One of Maelon subjects
I am so happy that I've found your channel and can watch you walk all along these paths, so I don't need to xD It breaks my heart every time, but I love your Videos
The confrontation with Mordin is too good not to experience. A good story, good performances, aren't always about everyone holding hands. The later confrontation with Wrex is also excellent, and there's one or two good conversations with Garrus around the topic too if you sabotage the cure.
On the bridge of the Normandy Garrus does the mental mathematics and figures out that Mordin must have been killed by Shepard and it's a great moment!
I will sacrifice Dalatrass in an infinite loop than killing Wrex even just once. He's the big bro to my Shep's 'lil sis'.
There is one point on this debate that is always ignored, and that is the absurd Krogan reproduction rate without genophage.
Each Krogan can live for 1000 years on average without considering premature death. And each Krogan female can lay 1000 fertile eggs PER YEAR. If we consider the krogans able to reproduce for 500 years from age 100 (its probably even more) and they have kids every 10 years, then starting from 1 million krogans we get something like this:
Year 1: 1M/2 *1000 =500M babies
Year 100: 5 billion babies + 500M adults able to reproduce (the year 1 generation)
Year 200: 500M*1000*10/2=2500 billion babies + 5 billion adults
Year 300: 2.5 * 10^13 adults, I'll stop here.
This means that even if the krogans were the most peaceful specie in the universe, genophage would have to be implemented for the sake of the galaxy, so someone truly roleplaying the game as a commander acting for the common good can't have any justification to cure the genophage. It would be the end of the world.
Just because a female krogan can have a thousand eggs doesn't mean they will. This is why Eve in power is so important. Bodily autonomy of women allows women to have the choice not to have children or to limit the number of children they have, rather than being used as baby making pawns by the males in a genophage ridden society with no choice in their reproduction or not. Personal choice is very important and everyone should have the right to make the best choices for themselves personally
@@amberheath9268You weren’t paying attention to the story. Female Korgan held more power during the genophage
@@reniorjdthey didn't tho
@@solaris4022They did. Someone didn't pay attention when playing Mass Effect 2.
I also want to add that in addition to using the Yagh to blackball the Delatrass, you can also leverage the murals you find in the underground of Tuchanka, as well as the surviving greenery you find when you leave there. You could have Allers do three things as far as leveraging this information. 1. Have her release the call with the Delatrass uncut. 2. Release the audio logs to do with the salarians uplifting the Yagh. 3. Try to interest the Asari in studying the ruins alongside the Krogan and teaching them Archeology after the war is over, with Liara and any of her contacts in the discipline still alive. Liara would know EXACTLY what academic buttons to push and Allers would know what political ones to push.
This could have a bunch of effects on war assets, such as...
1. The Delatrass is replaced by someone more sympathetic to the Krogan, her replacement becomes a war asset.
2. The Krogan are given more medical support, with long term measures like cryogenically freezing genetic samples of newly fertile warriors so that another population drop doesn't endanger the species and/or there are almost certainly krogan left to fight if the Yagh make it off their world.
3. Members of the Asari government allow scientists, commandos and biotics to travel to Tuchanka in search of places to propagate those plants to. Several Asari become pregnant with Krogan partners as a result, reducing Asari troops on the ground, but increasing mid game medical support, which has the knock on effect of adding a few points to other species' ground troops. If Wrex withdraws their support, this small core group of asari/krogan families joins the crucible project or Citadel Security, raising their war asset values.
4. Members of the Salarian union turn against the anti Krogan faction, resulting in some salarians joining the crucible project or alliance ground troops, by the end of the war, these Salarians are admitted into the Alliance Military as a reward for service and given Earth Citizenship. Scientists and engineers of all stripes protest, points are deducted from the Salarian union and rerouted to the Alliance and Krogan categories.
“No apologies for winning…” I love Mordin! 😊
Ok, I never comment on videos but, the cut away clip to Mac "playing both sides" @7min30secs just got you another subscriber. Cheers Big Dan!
Congrats on 100k!!
Big Dan always coming with the fashion. Interesting color combos, making those weird glasses look cool, makes me want to start a new game.
Big Dan almost on that BIG 100K duuuudee!!
I've always wondered how the Krogan would be so much of a threat, since they have an utterly devastated industry. What ships would they be use to invade?
In the near future? Likely not that much of a threat. But Krogan reproduce astonishingly fast. Like, supposedly 1000 krogan can result from a single batch. Given a few decades they can rebuild, and they can do so far faster than the other races.
This is kinda what I wondered too. They have no centralized government or dedicated production centers, just scrappers and pirates that own piecemeal ships. No navy, no standing army, just a bunch of tribes. How are they a threat? Just bomb them from orbit, done.
I always felt that was a plot hole that they never addressed.
I always argued that the Dalatres Argument about a Krogan Expansion is total shit. It called Krogan "DMZ" for a reason, but people i argued in cerrtain forums didn't care about facts.
They are extremely powerful warriors, they could just take material over
@@helloitsme6056 hard to do if you dont have a ship. That's like saying someone is the best kung fu fighter on the continent, but all your opponents are using helicopters
I will never betray the greatest video game character of all time. Wrex is my boy. Now and always.
As noble as that is. You're basically counting on one Krogan (or two) to keep an ENTIRE RACE of most who still carry grudges not to fall back into the old way of thinking. Imagine Clan Wyrlock in ME2 and their plans in that game. It's a good chance other clans may have the same idea.
@@Hillthugsta True, but there is a good chance they actually do succeed. Wrex didn't get as far as he did by chance, he is a good leader. Additionally, while it's using knowledge you wouldn't know at the time, all endings kind of make it less likely for the Krogans to wage war on the galaxy. In destroy, the Mass relays are destroyed and thus it would be much harder for the Krogan to venture too far from their home world. Synthesis would theoretically make the Krogan a bit more logical and tame, though this is the most likely one for the Krogan to actually rebel. Control leaves Shepard with the power to stop the Krogan rebellion using Reaper tech.
@@Hillthugsta wrex is a borderline planetary dictator and as we see in the synthesis ending, the krogan unconditionally love him. they root for him, he's larger than life, if it were planet of the apes, wrex would be caesar.
Well I sabotaged all life in the galaxy by walking away from the star child
But why would do that why do any of this
@@milesrogers7402 Troll :)
Plus, half in jest.
@@strider117aldo9 makes sense
@@strider117aldo9 you were just doing a little bit of trolling
@@milesrogers7402 Star Child: Joke´s on you, I´m gonna exterminate the entire galaxy
Big Dan's next video: Why you SHOULD shoot the Catalyst at the end of Mass Effect 3
Congrats on 100k subs!
The whole Genophage cure thing kinda made me disappoint with how Paragon vs Renegade was handled in ME3, and this scenario in particular definitely saw the shift towards a traditional "Good vs Evil" alignment system.
I would've loved to see Renegade dialogue where you still cure the Genophage, all while being an absolute jerk to the Dalatrass.
NOTE: Only do this if Wreav is leader of krogan
While Dan does make some decent points, I honestly could never do this to my boi Wrex or have Mordin live with his guilt. Sentencing the Krogan to a slow and inevitable extinction like this just feels too harsh imo.
Yes, agree.
Also if you do that, you are part of genocide.
The Genophage isn't a sterility plague. Mordin makes it very clear in ME2 that it only reduces fertility rates, presumably to around or possibly even slightly above replacement level (without the Genophage, krogan would be outbreeding every other sapient species).
My last playthrough on the ME trilogy was almost purely to explore this decision and all the options surrounding it, that meant the premeditated murdering of Wrex in ME1, the event that originally caused me to replay ME1 when I first played it back in the day (I hadn't allocated any points in my character's skills up until Virmire, and was confused why I couldn't pick a dialogue option to stop myself from killing him)
It was a bizarre experience coming at it from that perspective, but I was really curious what saving Mordin would be like, as well as an alliance with the Salarians, who are admittedly one of my favourite alien species in the franchise and never liked that the Dalatras didn't want to align her people with your cause over the genophage issue, but it makes total sense from their perspective. Anyway, I felt like it was a fun alternative to the usual save wrex & save cure play through, I'm just saddened we don't have more scenes revolving around the Salarian alliance after the fact.
I've played every class of character and made it through ME2 with no loss of team members but I've never explored the outcomes of every decision. Nor was I able to enter into the final ME3 battle with every possible Allie. But I loved this game so much. It gave me countless hours of entertainment. Can't wait for the next iteration.
Frankly Sabotage is rapidly became my favourite Canon. IF ME4 will allow save transfers i will go with it.
Not only is more dramatic (i'm all for MOAR drama) but makes more -sense.
Shepard is failing under the resposability, also he needs to save Earth by deploying a giant space weapon..
he needs the krogan only to get the Turians but Krogans numbers (circa 1bl) are not what will save earth or the galaxy,
the Turian Fleet is..
And the Salarian offer MORE space assets.
Is a pity the game is trash when it comes to war assets..
Ground troops more important than Fleets? in a space war?
Is a pity that in my OG playthrough I REACHED the shroud (mordin dead in me2, data erased, Wix unaware of the sabotage, Wrex alive but angry with S.) I stalled and stalled, told NotMordin to get out, reached the Renegade prompt...
and chickened out xD
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH should have shoot HIM!
Ou plus simple tuer wrex, encourager Nordin a détruire les données du remède se faisant tu peux convaincre mordin de se cacher et bosser sur le creuset
ive always thought a sabotage is the right choice. i love wrex and eve but two krogans are not enough to reform all of krogan society. its just not a realistic expectation.
I've actually seen an interesting discovery. If Wreav leads the Krogan but Eve is alive, and you cured the genophage, the final cutscenes after the final decision shows Wreav amassing his army to strength his warmongering goals, but Eve also amasses her own army (female Krogans) to resist and defy Wreav, indicating Eve is not only a strong leader, but can motivate many female Krogans to fight oppression from the Krogan males. I know it still doesn't make sense for two Krogans to reform the Krogan society, but I think with Eve, she's the key to a good future for the Krogan.
@@tredausmaxima genophage is just a better way. The population wouldn't decrease if the krogans would stick together and build there society.
@@davidc. it literally *does* though
they go extinct, even with wrex and eve alive, if it's not cured, and that is quite literally in the circumstances of the entirety of tuchanka being ruled by them.
If Wrex died in the first game and the cure data is destroyed in the 2nd game, sabotaging the cure in 3 seems like the only logical plan in the long run.
Trying to play through the whole trilogy with bad decisions is easier as it looks. I don't know how you do it Dan
even if wrex and eve cant stop another uprising, measures can be taken without the genophage, such as denying the krogan access to a fleet, no ships, no interplanatry uprising, the genophage can even be threatend to be remade to pressure the new korgran leadership, backstabbing the krogan is simply unnecessary. You also did not mention that its not just eve and wrex who want a new direction, its heavily implied that among all korgan females wrex's ideaology is very popular.
All that said, this can make sense for a super renedage shepard, and what I often like to do on runs where I plan it cure it is all the stress on shepard makes them consider, but mordin saying he made a mistake it reafirms shepards morals and only adds to mordins sendoff.
I don't know if ME4 is only a couple years or a couple centuries from ME3, but for myself issues with the Krogan come down to this:
1) What Wrex was doing, was working. And with Eve at his side as his queen, it would cement the slow humble build of the Krogan. The Genophage cure undoes all of that.
2) Wrex is already over a thousand, and Nakmor Drack from Andromeda is breaking down at 1400, so one could guess Wrex has 2 - 3 good centuries in him left. When he goes, will he have good people to listen and keep their word? Or will they go hog wild and start talking vengeance the moment he drops. And that is considering Wrex's rule stays peaceful the whole time.
3) I would think someone like Grunt could take over and keep things in order. But would he care? He's a Krogan supersoldier, he loves war, would he care about Wrex's beliefs?
But then I remember that 9/10 I give the Rachni Queen a second chance, and remember that like with the Rachni, the universe is a different place, has more species. If the Krogan go back on their world, they will face a united galaxy post reaper war, and I don't know if they can handle those odds.
Good analysis. From my perspective, it is not for us to determine who lives or dies. We shouldn't be playing God. The Krogan deserve a second chance. Whether they learn from their mistakes, that's up to them.
@@Rapunzel879 we should absolutely play God. We cannot risk the Krogans chaning after Wrex dies, so better stack the deck against them. Their armies will suffer heavy losses after the War and if they replenish quickly we have a problem.
@@Rapunzel879 Tell that to the billions who would likely get butchered by resurgent Krogan.
@@martinnolhaf3151 nah, krogans are not so much of a treat anyway, their whole planet is in ruins, they don't have strong fleets and they don't even have a functioning government, with their tribal state the rest of the galaxy can easily control the korgans if anything goes bad, so giving them a chance is fair, everyone is just overestimating their power
@@apesibe6972 and i assume your estimation of their Military strenth ist based on your own assumption?
Because the Game more or less tells us Otherwise.
The Turians With their great Military say that they need the krogans to save Pallaven. Either the Turians are Not as good as the setting has told us or the united krogan Clans are indeed a forced to ne reckoned With.
Especially when you think about the fact that they are united under one single Leader, either Wrex or Wreav. So they are able to engage With the other Species on a united Front.
Taking this into consoderation its Not a "nice" choice but a smart one to Sabotage the cure.
The sad truth is that Most people want to give the Krogans a Chance Just because they Like Wrex.
The best decision, I guess, is to kill Wrex in Virmire, let Wreav take over and have both krogan and salarian assets during the reaper war and final battle as well as ensuring no wars will be no second krogan rebellion
Sometimes you have to ignore the forest to care for a tree
By Jove, may you never lead.
If you play with the happy ending mod, and are planning for the future of the galaxy - you MUST maintain the genophage. The Krogan are who they are - they overpopulate and conquer.
Yes, and too many people judge with emotion rather than logic. They don’t use empathy to see why the Salarians and Turians would use the Genophage in the first place.
@@heroic9631I'm still gonna cure the genophage, I doubt the krogan would screw up a 2nd chance, not with wrex and eve and all who follow their example, teaching the next generations
They needed a 2nd chance for a long time, it be silly not to give it to them, might as well kill the Rachni queen on noveria and not give her a 2nd chance (but we know it turned out they she kept her word, or tried to until the reapers captured her)
@@iamboringvideos6832 Opinions change bro, tbh I’m still conflicted with it. I love the Krogan I just don’t like how they can have so many kids in such a short amount of time.
@@heroic9631 pretty sure it'd just bioware math and writing on crack
100k subs soon Big Dan !!!!!!
8:01 always makes me laugh because Shepards mouth moves during his lines in this scene even though you're listening to a recording
Very good, keep it up
Politically, this makes the most sense. Tuchanka is a failed state like Somalia. What little power Wrex holds is not nearly enough to deal with the ramifications of curing the genophage and a massive population boom. Will Wrex mandate Krogans to use protection? Organize schools, teach sex ed? Show ways of nonviolence? Even if Wrex stays in power, which is a big if, he doesn't wield enough power, and will eventually die from natural causes, followed by a power vacuum. Eventually, it's the Krogan Rebellions all over again, with death on a massive scale.
Wrex and Mordin are great people, but they are biased. Can't see the bigger picture. Their deaths are tragic, but necessary. As a leader, hard choices have to be made sometimes, like on Vermire.
The only way the genophage may be cured is through careful implementation, first laying the groundwork, then curing the disease. It's like telling Nazi Germany after WWII to have at it on their own.
Ohhhh no. Fuck no. There's not enough reason in the galaxy to betray Wrex after such a long friendship.
I'd rather put him down on Virmire.
There is. The safety of the entire galaxy.
@@Mark-xh8mdbut we don’t know if the krogan would wage war again because of the genophage and even if they did it doesn’t matter as we never got a direct continuation from 3
@@axelnilsson5124 We don't know that they won't. Wrex is one man, and his ideas are not universally accepted among the Krogan, to put it mildly
@@Mark-xh8md no but he could remind them that the last time they waged war their entire species got sterilized and that they’d be punished if they tried considering he killed a thresher maw on foot
I actually did this on my first playthrough. Helped I didn’t form an attachment to Wrex in ME1 before I had him executed.
If you cap him personally (rather than letting Ash take the shot) you can deliver an ice-cold killer line.
Ash: "Commander, are you okay?"
Renegade Shep: "I'm feeling a hell of a lot better than he is."
Also consider that Shepard had the physical power to bludgeon Wrex to the ground with a single strike from a shotgun butt. Damn.
Wrex is my friend and I will not doom his race.
Halfdan is back.
Wrex is just a good buddy. I just can't Mordon too but Wrex he is very smart and compassionate than other Krogan. I just love the outcomes though so many to discover!!! 😀 I only started playing mass effect in late 2019-2020 on 360. When legendary came out oh boy lots to discover!! ❤️👌 Also your videos are amazing thank you!!! 😊
To me "I made a mistake" is one of most iconic lines coming from Mordin
I'll confess, I sabotage the cure. In my first playthrough I cured the Genophage, and it felt amazing, but since then I've sabotaged it every time. And I've played these games a lot !
I've never trusted that the Krogan was ready to get a cure. I love Wrex, and it pains me to lose him, and Eve has great hope for all Krogan, but I don't trust Krogan overall.
And, the way Shepard talks down Mordin really hits it home for me. "I agree, Mordin, but not now", is a great dialogue that really sums up the entire dilemma of the Genophage and its cure.
This is one, of many, reason I love the ME games. They are filled with top tier choices, dialogue and buildups like this :)
Great video, again again :)
The issue is the natural violent temper of Krogan and how there is too few rational krogans out there. That makes the decission quite easier.. if you aren't loyal to Wrex.
IMO I think the Krogan are actually ready for Wrex's solutions, while the Krogan respect strength and fighting Wrex's push for peace doesnt mean there wont be a need for strength and soldiers especially in the coming years as the warlike clans will try and fight Urdnot for control. Plus Wrex and Eve are smart and would do the utmost to ensure the next ruler holds their values
I always do it. Mordin's whole side quest in ME2 is all about keeping the Genophage going. If you kill Wrex, there is a lot of doubt that the Krogan will be civil after the Reapers are gone. If you let Wrex live, even Eve says Wrex will follow the will of his people if the majority of them want to go to war.
The Genophage does't commit genocide, it only slows down the population. Source: Mordin.
This is quite controversial, hm?
@@theultimatedragoon2231 No, is logical
@@caurd By logical and reasoning yes, this is the best choice. Now if you are someone who have certain moral and ethics value, this could be a wrong decission. IT depends too much on what you believe.
@@theultimatedragoon2231 No. Logical and reasoning is only what matters. If moral and ethics lead you to do something stupid, so moral and ethics should be put aside
I think killing Wrex makes it not worth it
This is why I'm a little baffled when folks say every dialogue/action option in each game is essentially the same but shepherd becomes a different color.
Of course the Main reaper plot remains fairly concrete but many side characters stories can change drastically from a simple change as far back as ME1
Exactly. There may be three endings to the Reaper story, but there are dozens of endings for everyone else.
Many? This is the only story where there is significant change as far as I am aware. On the other hand, you have hundreds of non-choices made over the three games that amount to nothing.
Of course you should. Even in my Paragon runs i make an exception with the genophage.
A lot of people say "Nooo but with Wrex and Eve in charge" because of course they get emotional.
Like, guys, you hope for a cultural revolution with... like two people. Two leaders, but they're not the only ones. You see two good individuals and you would risk another war because of it. With a species that nuked their own planet, and not just a few bombs, like humans, no, they literally nuked every meter of their planet.
"bruh it's because genophage is destroying their culture !!"
If only this was the case, but y'know what i told you about nuking their own planet ? It happened even before salarians met them. They were already destroying everything. It's in their nature, and it's purely logical. Their biology and way of thinking are suited to Tuchanka.
I mean, some people are very, very, VERY optimistic i guess. It's so optimistic and hypothetical it's not even hope at this point, and i'm unsure if i want to risk another war for it.
With their INSANE reproduction rates, your cultural revolution will have to be REALLY FAST. Otherwise, another disaster is bound to happen. But hey, at least we were morally right, i guess.
And it's not only about their culture.
Wrex is in power because he capitalize on females. Guess what will happen with a cure ? Every clan will be able to breed their own armies and tell Wrex to just eat shit.
The genophage was the rational thing to do. Better than pure genocide, it's forced birth control. Of course, it goes against many people values, but being morally right won't do shit when Krogans will start an uprising one more time.
Curing the Genophage isn't a paragon decision, it's, at most, a stupid one x_x
We see the cultural revolution occur in the legendary editions endings...
This. I'm surprised nobody called you a "racist" though. Even rachny have more faith because as we discover in me 3 they were indoctrinated during rachny wars. They weren't controling themselfs. Krogans unlike rachny started rebelion on their own will.
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Yes, obviously. People are defined by their biology and culture never changes. Ever. Certainly not because of prominent leaders pushing for change.
Just dont ever pick up a history book, okay?
You speak with wisdow
me roleplaying as shepard who was kinda influenced by his time with Cerberus and wants max support for earth + to avoid another rise of the krogan, esp after the reaper war with a weakened galaxy, as shep stated .
I did my first renegade playthrough and was prepared to go this route but when the time came in ME1 i just couldn't kill Wrex.
I always sabotage the cure. I'm even going to on my current Paragon playthrough. Because The opposite is just stupid, short term "Let's make Wrex happy"-bullshit that doesn't think any sorts of steps ahead.
Reason:
MORDIN MADE THEM A STEAK!
If Wreave is in control i highly recommend sabotaging the cure
BUT in my playthrough i have Wrex and Eve alive they're peaceful and i personally see Wrex as my best friend my brother
I think that even if a new Krogan leader came along the Krogan would remember the good times Wrex brought
We'll have to see what happens to the cured Krogan in ME4
It's very easy to keep Wrex and Eve alive
It's nice to think Wrex's changes would leave a permanent mark, but look at politics in real life. Societies backslide on issues all the time.
Big Dan chose violence with this video LOL
After not playing video games since Tony hawk 2, I was given an Xbox 360 and Mass Effect 1 and 2 a couple months ago. Couple weeks ago I found Mass Effect 3 at a goodwill. My old Xbox 360 can't connect to the Internet so I can't do any DLC. Yet. After going through the series once, I'm doing it again and I'm at part 1 currently. I'm finding it really hard to betray rex, I recovered his family armor and everything so far. Been avoiding Vimire. I want the solarians and krogans. I want the prothians and Tali's people. I want the green ending. Still finding it hard to betray Rex and putting it off.
Unfortunately for me killing Rex is the only why to ensure the the galaxy will be safe after the reapers.
The way I like to play it is I will not tell anyone about the Salarian deal, even going so far as to point a gun at Mordin to try to stop him.
However, Shepard never brings it upon themselves to pull the trigger on a friend and crewmate, and the genophage is reluctantly cured.
It seems like a great moment of self-doubt from a character who is normally so sure of their actions.
do a video on what happens if you dont rescue the students at grissom academy. very very sad ending with jack when you reach the cerberus base i believe
For those who wanna try this path out without betraying Wrex, probably the best way is to just skip recruiting him in ME1. If you didn't recruit him, Wreav will still took the lead in ME2.
I imagine he's probably just go merc-ing out there throughout the trilogy and get all the girls, not caring about Tuchanka and the threat of the Reapers in the meanwhile XD.
The main reason you should sabotage the cure is you can do math.
"I made him a steak!!"
🤣 Man cracks me everytime.
Almost can envision a war that has humans & krogan on the same side
I do it in every playtrough. The krogan are not ready
That decision is fixed at the end if you choose control the reapers or syntesis, cause if krogans were about to do something like a rebelion shepard could stop them with reapers easily, and in the green option everything is basically perfect, so no problem with the krogans in any possible way
As sad as it is watching Mordin die trying to right his mistake. I could never sabotage the cure if Wrex is alive, I couldn't stand having to kill or watch him die
If you take control ending then reapers would be the force that could stop krogan rebelion 10 times simultaneously
Control is fake ending, destroy is canon
Propably yes but theres no fake ending
So I'm running a ME rpg game run on 5e, and have watched alot of your videos and I'm wondering if you would propose any ideas of just bullet point ideas on worlds if you want to help because they are about to leave this planet with their own choice of going anywhere so I want to make at least a safety net of ideas for worlds they would come to. Any ideas would be awesome 👌 and if not it is cool I can find my own way 😀 just wanted to throw a line for ideas 🤙
next big dan video: why you should get garrus grunt thane and tali killed on the suicide mission
Wrex always goes to meet the maker.
ultimately with the genophage mission it comes down to whether Wrex survives Mass Effect 1 or not
Also Maelon's data in ME2.
Mordin can even survive in ME3 if you take out Wrex in ME1, then destroy the data in ME2. You can convince Mordin to wait on curing it.
I didn't hesitate to betray Wreav, and I was so happy when it all went under the radar.
I didn't even do it myself but I saw footage of betraying Wrex and there's one line from him that still prevents me from ever doing it: "Everyone except my unborn son!"
If I betray the Krogan on a playthrough, Wrex has to die before ME3, otherwise I can't look him in the eye and accept him complimenting me while I stab him in the back.
Ill do just about anything Renegade or monstrous, but that's the one exception.
😢 oh no Big Dan….. you’re going down a path I can’t follow T^T)
There a glich to keep wrex alove and in the lengedsry edition you keep the war assets l. Heres how
When you done meeting the asari on the ciidel start the levistan or citadel dlc then jsut return to nornandy from the dlc and you will never get the scen of killing wrex so he lives and shows up st the final battle downside he eont be in the citdel dlc and wont shiw up at the slide shows at the end but is in wverything else hes included in after the “cure”
Big Dan you're a Monster!!
What happens in ME 1 on virmire if your only team is Ashley kaidan and tali so not doing therum and not recruiting wrex and garrus
Wait..... so you can save Mordin?!?!?!!
But only Sacrificing Wrex and Eve??!?! Fuck...........
I have to admit, I have sabotaged the genophage because wreav as in charge. The guys just too violent for me to cure the genophage. I could never do wrex dirty like that tho
On what must have been my 15th playthrough of the series I had to kill Wrex in ME1 and not keep Maelon's data just so I could for the first time not cure the Genophage, but damn if it wasn't tough killing Wrex even though I didn't have to.
Cure the Genophage
Take the control ending
If krogan get out of line, Mama Shepard will punish them
Mama🤓
Fool, Reaper tech can't be trusted. Mama Shepard might be the next enemy.
To me, sabotaging the Genophage cure is like detonating the nuke in Megaton in Fallout 3. It's an act so evil that if I did it, I'd never be able to live it down. I blew up Megaton in Fallout 3 once to see what the Tenpenney Tower suite was like, and I felt so bad afterwards that I had my character jump from the balcony to his death before deleting the saves with him, then started all the way over from the tutorial with a brand new character.
Sabotaging the genophage isn't even the most evil choice in Mass Effect (cough, giving David back to Cerberus, cough).
I kinda agree with the comparison, but this is not an act of evil, it's more grey. Nobody but krogan were even on board with curing them, everyone was forced to make it happen.
The Salarians and Turians make what I think is irrefutable points, that once the reapers are dealt with the krogan might become the next big bad. If not a decade later, could be a century later, they can start being a problem whenever. You also get Salarian support for not letting Mordin fix the cure.
Either decision has a little a bit of evil consequences.
yeah, I sabo'd on my first run, and every run thereafter, I understand why the Salarians did what they did, and I completely agree with their assessment of the Krogan as a species. In my view, the aftermath of the cure is a Krogan dominated galaxy, and I just can't have that.