What is the Difference Between a Short Circuit and a Ground Fault?
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
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Troubleshooting can be one of the most daunting tasks an electrician can face. There are usually just so many variables to consider when trying to figure out what went wrong or when something isn’t working. In todays episode of Electrician U, Dustin answers a follower’s question regarding the difference between Short Circuits & Ground Faults and the values you should see on your multimeter when testing for them.
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While the terms Short Circuit and Ground Fault seem to be used frequently and interchangeably, they are in fact quite different from one another. Think of a Short Circuit as a Short Cut, removing the load from the equation, and providing a path for the circuit to make its completed loop to the source of power. By doing this, it generates more amperage than the breaker is rated for, and the breaker trips. A ground fault is simply where a hot conductor has come into contact with something that is specifically grounded (maybe the grounding conductor itself or the case of a piece of equipment that is grounded, or a box/conduit that are grounded) and providing a return pathway to source. Either way, both of these scenarios happen BEFORE the load and in doing so, result in much higher amperage than the breaker is designed to withstand so it trips.
A great way to diagnose your power issues is to use your multimeter. There are two functions of said multimeter that would be helpful in this situation. You could use the OHM setting to check for resistance in the circuit. However, if you did not know the EXACT wiring of the circuitry, this would not be the most helpful of the functions. If you were to check between a hot and a neutral, you would most likely get the same values as checking from hot to ground. This happens as the grounding conductor AND the neutral conductor are run in the same conduit and have roughly the same length. A better choice would be to use the continuity function of the multimeter. If you are measuring before the load, you should not have continuity between the hot and either ground, neutral, or another hot. Once you figure out which two wires are completing the circuit, then you have found your problem!
Another great journeyman’s tip when troubleshooting is to gather as much information as you can about the situation and find out as many KNOWNS as you can. How much amperage is it supposed to draw? Has it done anything like this before? What exactly happened when it faulted (was there a shower of sparks, or a loud boom, etc.). A great one to ask is “did anyone perform any work on it recently? And if they did, are those folks available to speak? If something used to function, someone performed some type of work on the system, and now it doesn’t work, usually means the malfunction is either located within the work they did or is a direct result of the work they did. So, be a detective of sorts and gather as much information as possible. Use those KNOWNS to mark off the UNKNOWNS and it will narrow down the areas you will be looking in. It is also helpful to pull back and get a higher altitude look at the situation, then dive down into the details. Doing this in multiple areas of the whole system will help you eliminate possibilities, so you aren’t chasing demons throughout the entire system!
Also, remember that breakers don’t just randomly trip, and fuses don’t just randomly pop! There is a reason that they do. So, it isn’t prudent to just attempt to continue cycling the breaker until the equipment stays on or replace the fuse with a higher rating (or bypass the circuits protection entirely!). Something has happened and the breaker/fuse is just doing what it was intended to do! The appropriate action would be to diagnose the problem and then correct it!
We hope this has been helpful in understanding the difference between a Ground Fault and a Short Circuit and given you some useful information for troubleshooting an electrical problem. Please continue to follow Dustin and Electrician U as we are constantly updating our content to assist our followers in becoming the best electricians that they can be.
#electrician #electrical #electricity
I’m glad you made this video. You’d be surprised how many electricians don’t realize the difference between ground faults and short circuits.
I'm a green maintenance tech and this video helped me out a lot.
Remember when testing resistance or continuity remove power or turn off power. Thanks for the info, helpful.
This is good stuff, you don't have to be in the electrical trade to need to learn the stuff I understand it, which is what I appreciate about this channel. People have trained in HVAC, I have sent them your way to do some homework. Videos like this being a perfect example, because I tell everyone, if you're not putting in time off the clock as well you're never going to succeed or learn what you need to learn or need to know
Im in hvac and struggle electrical n using my meter
@@josemartinez-jt6tw Buy some textbooks.
See if your job will cover a few semesters of trade schools. I know a lot of employers do. That's how I got through trade school and got my certs. I wouldnt be where I am today if I didnt put my head to the ground and go for it.
YUP ppl who like this, their mind will absorb any info when they work on projects,
sort of like seeing twine broken on motor windings, it is quite likely there will be
a discoloration of the windings. even from years past seeing discolored coils in a
motor or gen you'll remember the twine was most likely broken leading to the
fact the coil overheated and a good chance there will be a shock hazard.
I'm a retired sparky with over 50 years in this great trade. Several times I have came out and found that a circuit breaker trips as soon as you turn it on. Unplugged everything & turned every switch on that circuit off and problem did not go away. Could not pick up and grounds on either of my VOM'S. Used my expensive Fluke combination VOM/ Megger. Did not pick up a ground at 50 volts but got a low resistance reading using 100 volts. One of these was caused by water that halve filled an outdoor receptacle box. Another time old rubber insulated wire had broken pieces of insulation allowing two wires maybe seperste by a hair. If I had 10 devices on a circuit would try to guess middle point and disconnect wired then flip the breaker.
"Finding the knowns" … yeah, that's an amazing troubleshooting step - and applies to all kinds of stuff including outside electrical. I can't tell you how many times someone asks for help only to find out they skipped all the easy stuff to check, didn't "look for the knowns" and is struggling off in some completely unrelated area because of it. I always step ALL the way. back, start from the beginning/scratch, and yeah, go thru all the knowns and go from there.
@Colinstu by "knowns" are you talking about "probable faults" in a circuit?
@@desertodavid it's talked about in the vid. But no, basically starting with the basics, starting with the baseline. You need to start an investigation by starting with the basics, and finding out the most basic parts of the situation.
It can be easy to be carried away jumping into a situation going off of what other people have said, only to find out they missed something SUPER easy / simple because they skipped the basics and went right into more complex situations. (or you yourself doing the same thing. "I am so smart, it MUST be this instead of like… checking breakers, checking how the wires are connected, tracing them out, etc. A bad assumption can send you down a totally wrong path.
You may end up with the final solution anyways - but all that could be skipped if the basics/knowns of the setup are determined first.
@@colinstu nevermind. Obviously you don't know what I mean by probable faults. I'm an experienced Electronics technician, so save your time.
@@desertodavid oh, PROBABLE, I read that as "ground" (as in ground faults). Yeah that's definitely all part of it.
An excellent explanation. I would have only added the step of unplugging/disconnecting the load from supply wiring to isolate and narrow down possible causes.
We would get sent out to work on a customer's turbine with a "known" issue. That is, until we got on site and found that the customer's "known" issue didn't make sense. I finally figured out that the best thing to do was to start shooting the breeze with one of the operators and find out what they were trying to do when the "known" issue popped up. It usually had nothing to do with what the office people said it was. It usually also pointed out that they did something stupid or that something else on site caused the issue to begin with and the turbine was collateral damage. Really cut down on the troubleshooting. Know your knowns. I like that.
This is SO true. We tell all out clients, very politely, to just describe the problem without any speculation. Of course, if someone spilled their coffee on the control panel, I’d like to know that too 😏😏.
If your having trouble finding if you have a ground fault or short circuit, and tried removing appliances, turning wall switches off with no success, then you know the problem is within the building. Because grounds and neutrals ultimately end up at the same place in the main panel, what you might consider doing is removing the neutral of the problem circuit from it's bus bar, then check if you have continuity between the hot coming off the breaker and the neutral. If you don't, but you have continuity between the hot and ground bus, you narrowed it down to a ground fault. In either case, ask yourself, what circumstances changed? Ex. an electric heater was being used for an extended period, and you smell burned plastic near a receptacle, see wisps of smoke, and now the breaker won't hold. Perhaps you heard a pop or crackle, or seen a flash, before the breaker tripped. You narrowed it down to a ground fault in the building wiring. Upon pulling devices upstream of the space heater location, you find a wirenut had burned off the hot wire and is touching the metal box. Not all troubleshooting is going to be so simple and logical, but you get the idea.
These kinds of comments you find in youtube are solid gold. Thanks professor!
This should be obvious, but never test continuity on a live circuit, e.g., using the meter in continuity mode across hot and neutral, hot and ground, or hot to hot (for 220V). A Harbor Freight quality meter will be destroyed, a good meter will blow the fuse. While electricians don't typically use this, but there's a device called a Time Domain Reflectometer. It fires pulses down the line, and measures the return times. It can find shorts, changes in resistance, and open circuits. You can also measure the length of the wire if you know it's velocity factor. They're not crazy expensive, but they're not cheap either.
Needed this today. Came across someone’s shoddy work and just immediately stressed out when I opened the j-boxes. Hopefully when I go back on Monday I can solve my problems.
i am a master electrician and hvac tech over 30 years .I am disabled now .Everything you said is correct .the first thing l was taught about electricity is it all ways looking for the ground and you don`t want to be the best way to it! all ways turn the load off before turning on power!Because a loose connection under a load is the same a welder. it heats up and makes a bigger gap and bigger arc every time load comes on! and a breacker matches the size wire to protect the wire from heating up and burning!The nuetral is the designated path to ground and it just as hot as the power wire under a load!
We had a job subbing for a company that had a contract to move all the service meters from the panels on the sides of mobile homes to pedestals in the front corner of the houses. They ran all the new supply lines under the houses to the main panels. Our job was to solve all the ground to neutral faults in the whole park. As well as replace some very old or under rated panels and any other problems. I did all the troubleshooting with my apprentice helping. We had to open and disconnect a lot of wire nuts. First thing we always did was pull the electric dryer cord. A lot of those are neutral bonded to ground. Keep up the great videos. Still learning and finding better ways to explain things to apprentices and customers. Even though I have my own company now.
Prior to continuity check, It seems a very important step is to disconnect the device from the supply neutral (and hots) otherwise the bonding at service panel will not allow you to differentiate between neutral and ground.
You'r Right .
Man the way you explain it makes me understand it much better, thank you. That mentor you had is the man. Knowns is what will help you pin point the issue.
Hey man, thank you so much for all of the valuable info on your channel. I’m a coffee tech (espresso machines, commercial brewers, etc) so we basically need to be baby plumbers, baby mechanics, and baby electricians. The electrical side of things is always where I felt the least comfortable, but your videos really helped me step up and feel like I have a handle on what previously felt like black magic.
My trade school just uses you videos to teach us ⚡️⚡️
Thanks for the great video!! Definitely helpful in understanding it. I do use continuity alot for troubleshooting. Have an outside project (still not finished) alot receptacles In the yard where over time got covered over with dirt and multiple shorts in the circuit, I take sections at a time and test continuity and finally figure out where and which wire. It's been a nightmare job and still a few left to do.
I like when flames come out of the breaker when you reset it and your hand is on the breaker along with a nice pow.
I'm in hvac but we do some of our own electrical. Making me a better tradesman. Thank you
Dustin, could you please do a video with tips and tricks to troubleshooting with both a multimeter and a clamp meter? I’m an industrial electrician that’s been with my company for a year, and I’d like to get into service calls and learning how to use my meters to help with troubleshooting. Love your videos, and I would appreciate it a lot. Thanks in advance if you do this.
Trouble shooting with a clamp meter? Are you talking about an amp probe?
I do industrial as well 3y in....I believe it's a fluke 375 that measures in rush.....I'm wondering if I clamped the neutral close breaker and got a inrush value turned around and did the same for ground how they would compare...the expectation is to try and catch the one drawing excessive current to determine short circuit or ground fault...
@@gp3646 amp clamp
Be prepared to be humbled. Service work and troubleshooting is a whole different animal than commercial/industrial new construction. But it will be good experience for you and I highly recommend every apprentice down both new construction and service work. I'm a journeyman and still struggle with troubleshooting at times and using my meter. When you install for awhile and do nothing but bend pipe you get a little rusty when you actually have to think like an electrician. Hell just last week I had to look up how to calculate a lighting load using ohms law. I had brain dumped all that and haven't done a calculation in God knows how long.
This video is like the gold rush, because I'm finding lots of gold nuggets in here! Thanks for the great info Dustin!
There may not be "continuity" as defined by your DMM when a device is turned on. This is because the continuity feature of DMMs beeps below 1-2 ohms. But the actual load may be hundreds to hundreds of thousands of ohms. That said... __NEVER__ use the ohms/continuity reading of a DMM on a live circuit. You'll either blow a fuse in your DMM, damage your DMM, or explode your DMM (depending on the voltage across your DMM leads when you take the reading and the safety features inside your DMM).
Yes, you are correct regarding continuity. I have seen electrician's test with a meter, its open circuit. No, your meter has a maximum of 2k, anything over this will show open circuit. You need to read the meter manual and understand its limits.
On flukes the continuity setting is usually below 80 ohms
Make sure the power is off. Disconnect the wiring to speed things up.
Remember you will a always read continuity or "ohms" over a coil such as a heating element but you should more resistance over a coil then a derect short.
This video helped me fix a lighting issue , thank you!
Very informative. He clearly knows his business. Excellent presentation.
Fantastic job on explaining how to troubleshoot a circuit issue! Many times the first thing people think is that it must be a wiring problem without considering the possibility that it could be something running off the circuit.
Thank you very much for the great explanation.
This was an excellent video with wisdom that applies to fields far outside of just electrical. Great troubleshooting advice for all troubleshooting.
something to also keep in mind. Ground faults are not only created by hot conductor(s) touching metallic frames or equipment grounds.
I do a lot of outdoor lighting troubleshooting and can’t tell you how many times tripped GFCIs are caused by junction boxes located in the soil that have moisture contamination. Enough current is able to find its way to earth ground that it trips.
Nice demonstration. Unplug/disconnect then probe to isolate to see which side of the circuit... zoom in. That's how I do
This connected some really important dots for me. Thank you.
Nice job . However it may be to make sure all power is lock and tagged out if possible and no live power going to the circuit you are checking for continuity . I saw a guy in class one time blow up his meter because he did know to have no power when checking continuity . A little tid-bit for your next presentations. I can not stress the one little thing like that you did not mention !
Yup!
True, sort of. You can have a ground fault with as little as a few milliamps of current. Often from a small cut or break in the insulation and often intermittent. That's why it's so important to megger new installations. Especially if you're using conduit.
I love your channel, you are awesome! Very helpful and you explain in a way that a less experienced person like myself can understand. Thank you so much for being here.
Kind Regards.
Philli.
Dustin, you're awesome!
Experience comes from years on job. We always learn everyday. No way we can know it all.
I was taught at early age, "we stop learning, when we allow ourselves to not want to take anymore in".
Best tip to apprentice is, do not say ya know, if ya don't. Always ask questions, its better to ask the 'why' , then to just keep doing, cuz you're told so.
That will show interest in trade and jman will appreciate it ( well, most would, lol).
Cheers from Pennsylvania!
Thanks for your teaching!❤❤❤
thank you for the explanation. The ways to explain this was some simple. 💯
Keep doing videos like this,I really appreciate them
Great advice on gathering the "knoiwns" , in the process you will get to the problem.
The gentleman is right, correct terminology on the job gets the job done correct and efficiently, and when you have those two it means that you done the job safely to, German if you ever do any job that has anything to do with electricity what you got to remember is your multimeter so you could test before you start, and the best way to find any problem in an electrical circuit is the start where your source comes in and follow it out.
I use a light socket. Black from pigtail goes on breaker and neutral goes to the load. Short or ground fault circuits will cause light from bulb. When fault is cleared light goes off
99% of the time it's not the wiring, it's the equipment connected. Disconnect the equipment and check if the breaker will reset. Depending on the fault a multimeter may not show the fault and an insulation resistance tester (Megger, trade name) may be required.
90% of the time it’s a loose wire in the breaker
%100
Thanks for your time an videos iam sure I have a short going on with my dryer now got to find it but u save me with this video ty.
You have to be the best instructor in the world, thanks for your video
Thank you so much...knowledge is power!!
The best from the video was with the knows! It’s a life reminder.
Dustin, Thank You ...Another great learning tip!!
Great teaching. Thanks for sharing this.
I've always used the term ground fault to refer to an issue that happened on a switched return circuit.
Excellent video. Thank you!
DUSTIN, A Ground Fault is considered the Hot wire is directly connected to the Green wire Ground? a Short circuit is considered if a piece of the equipment's internal wiring or internal load is shorted from hot to neutral or the load is shorted from hot to chassis? How I would troubleshoot a ground fault or short circuit is shut off the breakers then disconnect the Hot, Neutral and Ground wires to the load/equipment, then use my DVM meter to test if the wires are shorted or if the equipment/load is shorted. This method is better because you can diagnose if the load/equipment has an internal short circuit or an internal wiring ground fault. If you don't disconnect the H,N,G wires and multiple pieces of equipment/loads are on the "Same Branch/Same Breaker connected "in parallel" you will be guessing, because a short circuit and ground fault will measure both the same in "milliohms". What is even worse to troubleshoot when you have a short circuit that crossed over in a wiring harnesses in the wall or internal inside a piece of equipment/load to another wiring harness that is on another breaker which you will have "leakage current" or Ghost measurements". This would be a good video lesson about "ghost measurements" and leakage currents.
Thanks for the video! I'm studying for my aptitude test to join IBEW. I know this isn't going to be on the test but its helpful to know for the interview and boot camp. Anything I can do now to get a leg up is helpful.
Good luck im in IBEW and it’s great
Thanks for the advice
Keep up the great explanations!
Dustin. Very helpful. Question: It is necessary to de-energize a circuit before you test for continuity, yes? Were you assuming that with a tripped breaker, the circuit is by definition de-energized?
Good way to destroy your meter when checking for continuity if you did NOT DE-ENERGIZE your circuit! Continuity testing or resistance, (same circuit within the meter) relies on its own internal power.
When checking continuity you have to turn off breaker right? So you dont damage your multimeter..?
I had the opportunity of being present when a 480v/1200a breaker was constantly tripping and it was a sight and sound to experience. It was an ice maker for a food processing plant, and the reason it kept tripping was too much in-rush current when the control system fired up the compressor(s) soft starts. I just needed to increase the breaker in-rush settings, so I learned some troubleshooting techniques that day.
Thank you, I was trying to understand this for some tìme.
A lot of light fixtures will give you continuity between neutral and hot conductor you always got to keep that in mind as well when troubleshooting
If you do the breaker thing just make sure the circuit is turnded off if doing continuity. Usally when i try to diagnose somehting I start as close to the source as i can and or the simplist to get to. I hade a table was that was acting odd for a bit then just stopped turning on. I tried a few different outlets played with the internal breaker, switch. I then unplugged turned on checked continuity to between the hot and neutral was open. So then tore into the switch, breaker, checked the cord they were all fine. That pretty much left the motor, checked that open circuit, checked from each line to each brush one was open so figured either a winding failed, thermal cutout, or maybe a bad connection. Ended up tore apart was a loose spade terminal on the brush holder fixed good as new.
I'd do similar for something like this remove anything that would show like a load then start from source and work back until you find somehting that seems off.
Great and on-point!
Good stuff Dustin, would love to see some more 3 phase 480V troubleshooting videos as an industrial electrician I would love to hear your take ! Keep pumping out this great content love it
hi Dustin, can you make a video on the complete tutorial of the multimeter, as in how and when to use certain button.. on it ?
Amazing video as always!
Great video! Wish I saw this last year, had a similar issue and did all kinds of troubleshooting to figure out it was a simple fix in the junction box, felt dumb.
BUT hey, I have a random question, as a DIY homeowner, I have a couple spots I need to run new Romex to where the existing is 12/2 and I need 12/3. Talking to people I work with they all make it sound so simple, attach the new to the old and pull through DONE. Wrong, because from what I know and, in my situation, the installers staple it to studs in the wall. So how does a professional replace Romex in a finished wall? or do you cut open the wall, patch it up, and paint when done? Trying to avoid that, but it might be my last option. Thanks, appreciate the easy-to-understand info.
I know what you mean about checking 'the knowns ', I'm a heating engineer, work on boilers and stuff. When I get a call out, cos someone's heating is not working. The first thing I do is find out if their gas meter is topped up, (a lot pay as you go customers in London), so yes you right, check the knowns ; simple things like checking to see if there is gas flowing on cooking hubs in the kitchen. You will be surprised how many times that's the case: no gas.😊, Another thing, always let the customer tell you what happened. They may already have diagnosed the problem for you.
Great explanation
Great info. Thanks.
nice to hear someone talking that knows what they are saying.... lol.... thank you for what you do!
Great video. Very informative. Which model multi-meter is the one in the video? Looks like maybe the MM720
In commercial remodeling, we come in AFTER they screw something up, have a tripping breaker, but do not know the load, the correct neutral, etc. Knowing both sides makes it trivial.
Hey when I was in college studying networking, we had a tool called a Fox and Hound. It sent a signal Through the Wire, and you could pick it up with a handheld device. Is that possible for electrical wires? Like if the wire did find a shortcut, could it be used to find where the shortcut is?
Good piece.
Dude gotta be my favorite sparky to watch
First thing I do is tune breaker on and if it trips immediately then I unplug(if it has a plug). Do the breaker and if it trips again then I KNOW ITS NOT THE PLUGGED IN ITEM. Then trouble shoot from there.
Good explanation
Thanks for explaining the ground vs ground short. I'm an appliance repair guy and I always start from the wall outlet then work my way inside then go to the load and trace the circuit.
Thank you very much
More troubleshooting videos please
Still not subscribed. But, this is me commenting on yet another video. Good job on this explanation. You've broken down Root Cause Analysis into a very basic structure. 👍
Love your stuff!!
So, you connect a multimeter, measuring continuity between live and neutral hopping for continuity. What if there is no short circuit and you apply 117V to the multimeter leads? If the short is far from the measuring point the continuity may not work... I probably didn't understand
Just a cement Mason taking a jab at your question: my answer is that a faulty ground would have it working sometimes then not vs short where it does not work at all then using a meter to find if there's an opening from device to ground?
New subs here. Thanks for this video, it helps a lot.
Before testing for continuity, just walk over to whatever is on the circuit. The light fixture, receptical, j-box will typically provide a visual clue. Or smell. Or sound LOL.
I am not an electrician, but want to learn to be one. You touched on an item about DVM. Can you make a video on how to use DVM's and what each of those dial settings does, how it will help me troubleshoot?
Could you unplug everything on that circuit breaker and plug them back in one at a time to identify which appliance is causing the fault?
This is a perfectly valid troubleshooting technique to narrow the fault down to a specific appliance or identify if the building wiring is the fault if the fault still shows with everything unplugged/disconnected.
2 Types of Short Circuits
Normal short circuit: In a normal short circuit, a powered or hot wire touches a neutral wire. Immediately, resistance drops and the current begins to move in another path.
Ground fault short circuit: In a ground fault short circuit, a powered or hot wire touches a grounded section of a box, device, appliance, outlet, bare ground wire, or anything else supplied by the electrical circuit.
Wooooooo. using words properly . Im excited 😁
Hi there; question for you. I moved in into my home a year ago, the house is only 8 years old,and when changing some outlets in a bedroom to replace them with usb built-in I came across one outlet with the ground looped on the neutral side. The wiring is the original from when the house was built 8 years ago. If I undo the ground loop and turn the breaker on , it tripped (nothing connected to any of the outlets)
I pulled out all of the outlets and switches to see if something was amiss. I turn the breaker back on without the loop and it didn’t trip but the connection that continues from this outlet (master bathroom) stopped working. Connecting the ground loop back to the neutral as I found it, resume power to the master bathroom
I know without seeing it is hard, but do you have an opinion as to what’s going on?
You mentioned that you should never have continuity between a hot and a ground..I agree with that on an appliance, however, it can tone out with lightbulbs sometimes. Can you touch on that and explain it?
Great video !
Thanks for your good information. i known that there is huge support my jobs. 😍😍
dude! thank you so much! Really!!!
Ok I see what you did between hot and neutral. Can I test each conductor to ground? Like test for continuity to see if 1 of the wires is going to ground?
Go to work at Tysons and beyond maintenance you'll learn quickly and safe.
I had a 220 short once. I was installing a 30amp light switch for a heater and crossed power wires in the switch. flipped the switch and POP!!! goes the whole house breaker.
Dustin, what are the steps to find a partial short in an a/c circuit? I have a multiple outlet circuit along with a garage opener. The garage opener motor burnt up and is disconnected. The circuit now has a low voltage of 46 volts.
Gary
Thank you for that, I forget about continuity. I have a old house with an old water heater and the breaker keeps getting tripped periodically. I have a home warranty that came with house and so I called and they sent guy out. Ended up changing 1 element but now 2 months later same issue. I'm not going to pay again to send same guys out so I'm going to see if I can figure out which one is broke or if another problem, thank you.