Building vs Buying a High-Temp 3D Printer: What's More Cost-Effective to Print PEEK and ULTEM?
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- čas přidán 7. 03. 2023
- Building versus Buying a High Temperature 3D Printer. What do you need to know?
Well to start off, 3D printing is complicated. The stresses that these machines undergo means there is some complexity involved with nearly every subsystem and even basic things like the metal and materials being used inside. Not only that, but the lack of support when you mod a Prusa or an Ender 3 into a high temp machine means you are your own customer support.
Today, Rob and Cole dive into their wealth of knowledge and experience to help you make this decision for yourself. For most of you buying a machine will be the most logical choice in the long run but for some of you, building one might be the perfect project for you.
And for those of you looking to purchase a machine, we have several great options at all different price points. From our in house developed 22 IDEX to the Sinterit line of machines to large machines like the AON3D M2+ that we've been showcasing over the past few weeks, we have a number of solutions that we can help guide you towards. Give us a call or head over to visionminer.com to get started today.
, Cole McHone,
Editor: Drew Alcorn At Vision Miner, we specialize in Functional 3D printing, especially high-performance plastics like PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU, PPS, CFPA, and more. We also have extensive experience with 3D scanners, and a whole array of solutions available for purchase. If you're interested in using functional 3D printing and materials in your business, feel free to reach out, and we can help you make the right choice for your application.
Call 833-774-6863 or email contact@visionminer.com, and we're here to help!
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Nice to see you showed the open source Valkyrie high temp diy machine in this video. It's a 2k machine that works great up to 80c chamber temp
i have built one of these printers and yes costs around 2K but works very well
I wanna make one now :)
VZ-Bot HT ! Lets go!
Yes, please.
Thanks for the IGUS link :) I have no plans for high temp any time soon. But I love learning about 3D printers in general. 3D printing is not a hobby it's an addiction :)
This is a strange video. Do you guys think you are competing with Hobbyists for sales? Hobbyists dollars aren't going your way regardless of how good your pitch is or how good your machine is. Print farms will selectively purchase their machines on their target customer. Your machine can be super amazing but it fits a niche market. Expensive machines can be super awesome, fast, reliable, and even multi-use. You are never getting the hobbyist to suddenly want to buy a prefab instead of building one. Many of us do it for comraderie and because it's open source. It's community. It's non propiertary. Hobbyists aren't doing this to compete with engineers with research and development dollars. They do it for satisfaction. I have a 1600 dollar machine that i purchased prefabbed for my second printer and I am building another machine at the moment with the remnants of my first machine. I am not building it because I am trying to start a business or because I am having a competition. I am building it because I want to see if I can build something with my hands and from my brain. simple as that. I wish you guys all the luck in the world. Remember half the people who comment on these kinds of things are barely 16 years old and think they know everything. Another quarter of them just want to stir things up. The rest of us don't care. Some of us just don't want to be sales targets or convenience whores. Some of us want to grow our knowledge.
I built an enclosure and heavily modified my CR10 to print up to 100c Celsius ambient chamber temp. Bed can go to 140c and hotend up to 500c. Built the enclosure out of a broken dryer and had to relocate electronics outside. It cost less than $2000 and it’s great! However I agree with the opinion expressed here , it would be crazy for most people to try to DIY. Especially if it’s a business, it’s better to just buy the machine.
Here was my build list and approximate costs: Enclosure:
Base Metal Enclosure: $0 (free broken dryer)
Foam Panel Insulation: $30
Foam Spray: $10
Door and Clasps: $0 (from a table leaf)
Polycarbonate Window: $40
Door Sealing Foam Strips: $20
Stripped Fin Heater and SSR: $60
Metal Fan Blade: $10
Shaded Pole Motor and SSR: $30
Thermal Fuses: $20
Silicone Wiring to Heater: $20
Silicone Caulk: $10
Rails to Slide Printer out of Enclosure for Maintenance: $20
Printer:
Base CR10: $400
H20 BIQU Hotend & Pump: $100
SKR 2 Motherboard: $60
Berd Air Pump & Parts Cooling Ducting: $60
Metal Brackets for Z Axis top and bottom: $30
Polycarbonate V-Wheels (15): $30
Class H Hi-Temp Stepper Motors w/ silicone wiring (4): $80
AC heat bed and SSR: $40
Cast Aluminium Bed: $80
High Temp Belts: $40
Wham-Bam High Temp Magnetic Base: $40
Regular PEI Spring Steel Sheet: $20
What are you printing with it?
@@travistucker7317 Mostly just regular ABS, but sometimes Nylon, and Polycarbonate (close to pure PC, not the gimmicky watered down stuff that Prusa sells)
@@ce5903 what are you doing for the pc? I'd like to get there
@@travistucker7317 100-110c for ambient chamber temp. 135-140c for the bed temp. 300c for nozzle.
Proper high temp printers are some darn crazy machines. From vacuum beds to hot air part "cooling" and isolating the motion system, there's so much stuff that one just wouldn't consider if coming from a typical hobbyist printer background.
From what I've seen 80C chambers are doable on the diy approach of slapping something in a chamber that wasn't meant to be, but much above that and you'll start having a lot of problems. Belts have to be isolated by around 120-130C and grease cooking off begins to become a real concern much above that. Then you're looking at high temp bellows in addition to everything you already have to deal with.
With the cost of high temp materials it seems pretty reasonable that if you need to print them you can probably afford a purpose built machine to do so. There are some pretty cool home-built high temp machines out there, but proper ones are few and far between (and still really expensive). I personally don't require materials like ULTEM or PEEK, but it would be nice to have a chamber capable of running large parts in PPA-CF and similar "mid-temp" materials. Unfortunately I'm not in a place to drop five to ten grand on a machine right now, but maybe sometime in the not so distant future.
I absolutely love love love this video. I think the biggest takeaway is that there is still such a perspective difference between industry and diy. Absolutely, if you have the money and want to make more money, buy the right high temp printer. One aspect about this market though that I think folks can't get behind is the proprietary nature of parts, support, firmware, etc. Being able to fix something simple yourself in a pinch is something that saves a business of any size time and money. That's one thing that sets the 22IDEX apart. It seems open enough to be able to tune it to your needs whether it is low temp or high temp material, and it's a machine that is understandable. The price range is good, maybe a bit high for individuals and startups, but not as absurd as some other similarly capable machines. It seems like there is a divide between small businesses and larger businesses with excess money to spend. Honestly a more open source like funmat would do excellently in university labs such as my own. But at the cost of a 22IDEX, it is much harder to justify. Research labs seem to be right on the cusp of being able to take advantage of these types of printers, but we aren't quite there yet. Thanks for the great content and innovative products.
I built my own high temp printer. it was a pain and it doesn't print PLA well because it gets too hot :D getting those 200v 400Hz 3 phase aerospace grade fans that can run in the chamber at 100+ degrees was fun. maybe i'l send some pics, it's quite cool. totally a hobby though and you guys are absolutely right.
Definitely send pics! Sourcing fans has been quite a chore, for sure!
@@VisionMiner sent to your contact email :D
Dunning-Kruger effect
Everything said here is sooooo true, its been a fun challenge, part by part, problem by problem, resolution by resolution, and growth of knowledge. Now waiting on linear rails.
I have done a few used Stratasys I found cheap cheap, rebuilt the wear items and run it on open source (6HC) also kept some features like canisters loading bay head blower, chamber heaters, fans, thermal snaps, chamber thermocouple and build volume is now larger and can now get to 90C no heated bed needed, it has 4 build plates types for it CF BORO MAG-PEI and metal this is the second one i have done now almost exactly the same but this one has a touch panel the first one was 3 months on weekends the last one was done in a weekend! no rafts or support unless i want it is a game changer for this unit alone with bellows and fire pillows 120c i could see but not needed yet
Dude, you guys are awesome! I bought a printer, not even from you guys, and when I called you, you guys were more than helpful. I ordered my first large bottle of nano Palmer adhesive, and a month later I’ve already ordered three, that stuff is amazing, but I think the whole analogy with sports cars is definitely not a good one because no one makes money with their sports car, I actually bought a 392 hemi SRT challenger instead of buying a demon, because I’ve now made it into a more powerful car than the newest demon. It’s almost 1500 hp, and I enjoyed every minute of doing it. Wanted to build a muscle car, my whole life, and I finally did and it was an amazing experience and I learned a tremendous amount. Similarly, I love the IDEX 22 especially the newer version, and I would love to have one I just couldn’t justify 15 K, so I bought a CreatBot F430, and then I decided I was going to modify it to get to the same temperatures as the IDEX 22, I have built a cooling system with an 18 inch radiator and three large fans with a pump circulating through four different aluminum stepper motor add-ons, that I CNC machined myself, so my X motor, my Z motor and both extruders are high temp steppers, another add-on, all water cooled with my homemade water, cooling system and homemade water cooling devices to go on the motors with thermal paste, doubled the plexiglass window, size in one and left the original, so tripled the size of all three, insulated the entire inside of the machine and added two 300 W ceramic heaters and 2 16 amp 24 V grid heaters with fans to the original large heating system that came in it with a external power source supplying them mounted on thin aluminum plates, welding, coupons, actually, drilled and tapped holes in those and mounted them to the enclosure, then had all holes already drilled and tapped for short screws to hold the heating units so four additional heat sources, the chamber is already getting up to 120 C, and everything in this printer aside from what I’ve changed is already built to withstand it. It has high-quality lead screws and linear rods, high-quality linear rails, on the X axis as well as the y axis on both sides, but the beauty part is those two stepper motors, and all of the electronics are not inside the chamber. They are underneath the printer, which is completely insulated and gets practically no heat, I used adhesive reflective thermal insulation that stuck onto the inside and then I put HVAC bubble wrap that is reflective as well on top of that, so it is seriously insulated very well, the build plate is also aluminum, then obviously I modified hot ends extruders, etc. etc., but it’s really turning out to be a serious printer. I’m getting up to the 70°C it’s rated for in five minutes. So when I let it warm up for 15 I’m at over 100 C. Hot end is already getting up to 500, and build plate is almost 200. And I’m nowhere near done, I already have a big tree, Main board and stepper, drivers as well as sub board and raspberry PI, it will be fully autonomous as far as video which is already installed with high temperature, wire, shielding, and the electronics outside the chamber either underneath or on the wall where my whole cooling system is mounted, I’ll have some CZcams videos of making it coming up but I’ll send you guys some pictures. Hopefully your guy Cole got the gun suppressors I sent him I ended up sending them a little later than I anticipated, but I did send him a couple to make up for it. Appreciate you guys as always, and one of these days I’ll be buying that IDEX
This is what I'm trying to explain to my boss. I wanted a 3D printer for my desk for prototyping. That led to more and more jobs, many being end use gages, dies, etc. He gave me a budget of 1k, and now I'm in need of a new printer. As I have sunk a lot of time into fixing the current. They don't understand that a 1k hobbyist printer isn't meant to be ran constantly without a lot of repairs and down time.
I can rationalize paying 15k for a super high end IDEX printer for my home as an engineer. Especially considering I paid that much for toys like motorcycles even when I was broke. Saved up for a long time for toys that brought only leisure…which is fine…but I can also do the same for a printer. The printer can also be a toy, but also can help further my career and generate money from home rather than simply being a distraction.
Think it’s just the price jump between something like a Voron to a IDEX that gets ppl.
Great informative video guys! I've only just gotten my Ender 3 Max modded (more mods that you would think) well enough to print ASA and CF filaments consistently well with the expected part strength, and that's been a whole ordeal on its own, easily 100 hours of modding and testing. Loved every challenge I came across to get it there but I couldn't imagine trying to get it to do anything over 300c. Consistency and reliability is key. Your printers look the business, keep it up!
This is well said! Luckily mine works well but it was a HUGE learning curve and you guys helped me the most! Also it took a long time to get materials tuned in on mine
glad we could be there! Cheers!
I stopped with a chamber temp of 55c. Active heated chamber for a Voron 2.4R2 350mm.
Going above I would have to make so many changes I would running into to many issues. Designing a high temp Printer isn’t easy and the materials needed are expensive too.
If I ever would have to print peek I would buy a printer designed for it.
By the way. You show the bl touch in the VM 22 as bed leveling probe. I had that in the Valkyrie but it is not suitable for ht chambers over 70c
Don't worry, that's long gone. New machines and new videos arriving in about a month :) Surprisingly, though, it actually worked quite well -- even on a large batch print, with a 200c bed -- tiny parts -- never really gave us issues, but now we use a high-temp microswitch setup we designed :)
I'm a DIY'er and cheapee that has come to the realization, yes... better to buy. Not just 3D-printers, applies to everything. Great video!
That's probably true more often than not, but not always the case. I have industrial machines, and engineering and manufacturing skills and experience. In many instances I can engineer custom build things and exceed the quality and function while doing it cheaper. Many of the things I build are very custom to meet needs that commercially available products can't do, either because they don't exist or are inferior in some way. But, one does have to count all of the costs honestly, and the return on investment. But, if there is a machine you can afford that will do the job well that you can buy so you can focus on your primary objective, you probably are better off going that route.
My journey with this video:
First minute or 2: Thumbs down...2 guys from a biz trying to discourage makers from making so they can sell stuff...
Few more minutes: Well....they actually seem somewhat reasonable...I'll take back my thumbs down...
By minute 7: These guys are absolutely right....and they are in fact encouraging makers to make! Have a thumbs up and subscribe!
Its best not to jump to conclusions too early.
Yes there is a big different between the parts costs and the R&D, time which most people vastly underestimate and don't include in the price.
hey guys great video. Could you tell us which home made high temp machines you guys saw that were actually good? I would like to see what people have made that the pros consider to be impressive.
We've been getting a lot of home built high temp machines being sent in and might turn that into a follow up video for this
no joke i did build the most overbuild fdm printer possible with custom heatbed, enclosure and 500°C dual extruder system. All motors are outside the chamber, its core xy and build volume is 400x400x500. BUT... it wasnt cheap and its around 10k only in parts. My suggestion, dont do it ^^
Im currently designing a (semi) high temp printer to start 3d printing my own snowboard bindings and maybe even trying to sell them. Im modifying a mercury 1.1 (an ender 5 plus overhaul essentially) and although Im sure it would be super cool to have a machine like this, but Im 16 and dont have the money, and I would simply lose my passion in 3d printing.
I think its silly that others are saying "oh I could build that in my garage" in a demeaning way, but most of us build and mod printers because its our hobby and we love breaking our printers and innovating! If I didnt have my printer to make high temp, break it, and innovate, it would be no fun.
I find your printers really cool though which is why I started following this channel, in hope to learn something
Most of the people modifying their printers aren’t even going close to the specs of purpose built printers like the 22 IDEX. Things get much more difficult once you start going high temperature.
@@conorstewart2214 They definitely do. I likely wont be getting as high temp as the 22 since I cant even afford materials like that but I want to get high temp enough to print semi advanced materials for my own projects
I think (perhaps foolishly) that there is a middle ground. I'm not looking to print PEEK, I just want to reliably use PC and PA in fairly large prints. To that end I've modified a Bambu labs printer, converting the AMS into a continuous filament dryer (pumping warm, dry air under the spool carrier and back to the dryer, recirculating through a desiccant bed), and I've insulated the print chamber with reflectix and added thermostatically controlled silicone heat pads. I also isolated the electronics by printing a sort of gate that allows the heated bed cable to move up the Z axis while limiting the amount of warm air that reaches the boards in the back of the printer. I could easily reach 90C with this arrangement, but I think that would be stupid given the number of plastic parts and the wide range of coefficient of expansion of the materials. Instead, I want to maintain a constant 60C and fiddle with all the parts and the slicer until the printer does a decent job with PC and PA. It helps that I don't have any commercial ambitions at all--I'm retired and I can afford to play with this stuff. Of course, it would be easier to just buy a printer that's engineered from first principles to accomplish this and more. But what would be the fun of that?
I would absolutely love to see your modifications. I have not been able to find anyone doing this with Bambu. Please share!
@@dmax9324 OK. I shot some video but haven't edited it yet. I'll work on that tomorrow since it doesn't look like we'll have any wind here on Maui, so no wingfoiling.
@@dmax9324 I will, but it's going to take a while. I'm converting my filament dryer to a regenerative cooling dehydrator in addition to the dessicant and heater fans. I'm using peltier refrigeration plates to remove moisture from the air. The air coming out of the AMS impinges on the cooling heat sink first. The sudden cooling of the warmed AMS air will condense water out of the air which drips to the bottom and out to a container. Then the air will travel over the hot side of the peltier plates, helping to cool them. The warm air then passes through the desiccant bed to the PTC heaters which bump the temperature to 70C and back into the AMS. I mocked this all up with cardboard and it rapidly drops humidity to less than 10 percent, a level where the humidity sensors I'm using get inaccurate. I'm designing all the parts to be 3D printed and I'm headed back to the mainland in a few days, so there will be some delays.
@@BillBabcock sounds pretty impressive. I like your approach to reducing moisture level with a peltier system.
Where do you guys draw the line for your recommendations to customers on this? Like PPS+ temps? Or even for PC/Nylons? Seems like a good few of DIY corexy printers are printing CF PC well enough but I am not sure at which temps you feel the printer becomes a money pit because the construction isn’t fit, but that’s my core question.
Generally anything over 65-70c in the chamber -- that's when stuff starts getting really messed up.
When you do announce the next iteration, please include some actual prints. It would be great to see the prints compared to some alternatives.
I was quoted your IDEX 22 when you originally announced it. However I waited for third party reviews or even just some sample prints that you guys do once in awhile. However you never posted any videos after the initial two. The only third party review I found was negative. It would be great if you had a review unit that some third party could properly review. I know others looking for the similar information.
I felt the same way, there is still something not sitting well with me when it comes down to the IDEX 22 - for me it was a total flop, for the lack of reviews and example prints.
It was mostly due to the fact we build them in Ukraine -- hang tight, we've got some big big news coming very soon :) While there are about 40 machines in the field, we've used the time to make massive improvements... many prints, videos, and third-party reviews to come :) That one negative review, by the way, isn't even a 22 IDEX, the person lied, I'll be detailing it in a future video.... but we've remained quiet, until we can actually show the new version of the machine :) We do appreciate the interest, in mid-April expect some really awesome content :)
Well do call me surprised. I am sceptical to see how it wasn't your machine, but I'll wait to see what your rebuttal.
@@VisionMiner Thank you for the information. I look forward to your update and reviews!
The amount of knowledge that comes out of this dude's mouth 😂📝🤯🤯🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
This is why my chamber stays at 90⁰F
Most people don't understand just how much heat changes the dimensions of diffaren't materials.
I loved this. I very much get both sides of the argument as I'm a designed/inventor sort of person, but at the same time I realise my limits and realities of ROI. Hobby, ok, have fun. For business, forget that messing around, it's a business because it's to make money. I sell a product which I design and is unique in it's field. I have it made by a print bureau atm and all is fairly good, but not perfect. I'm looking at whether getting my own SLS such as the Lisa X is worth it. Do I want to mess around with the potential headaches of printing my own stuff to save money, have quality control and the convenience? Not sure yet, but it will be a business decision, not a "I want to do it myself" decision.
"If you can spend the money..." Oh, there's the problem. I can't. However, I CAN design one out of steel, CNC plasma cut (also a DIY machine) the flat parts. That only leaves the not-flat parts, bearings, belts, heating elements...... yeah this is gonna be a nightmare. And not one big nightmare, but instead about eighty thousand little nightmares lined up in a row.
Are you guys actually comparing the machines you sell to a Mercedes? Ask any real garage mechanic what he thinks of modern Mercedes reliability and quality. They are done after the 100k warranty is out.
I trust your industrial 3D printers are better than Mercedes.
You guys are absolutely correct from a business point a view, just buy an industrial quality 3D printer, is the best way to go.
Hahahaha maybe that wasn't the best analogy 😂😂 Cheers!
Love your energy and passion, I want to come work with you guys sound like great fun..
I have been on and off building a high temp printer and 100% agree. Once you go over about 70c everything changes. And if I had the money would buy from them. so much time would have been saved. When is the next gen coming out ish even a ball park answer. So I can start saving now
Thank you for this! Next gen -- next month. Totally new videos and features being revealed. It's goingn to be awesome.
To be fair, some of us are applied physicists and yes...we could build these.
Thanks for the info, but, when companies over price their industrial 3D printers, we have to do, what we can do.
I agree with everything here.
OMG this is me right now, just getting my 500x500x700 Ratrig to just 70C Chamber temps. I hear the pain in these guys voices, and this is the very pain I feel of sinking hours and hours of frustration to get a printer calibrated and working. Totally agree with them. If I could have gone back in time, I would have rather have saved myself the sweat, blood, time away from the family, and just been focused on making money on a pre-build. I'm too deep now, with time debt, sleep dept, money debt, must continue, must get to the point of printing PEKK,......
Thank you for this comment! The guys commenting about being overpriced need to hear this..... it's really a thing. Businesses want to make parts, not build printers :)
i agree. building a HT 3d printer is not as easy as most people think. i was even stupid enough to make one with a direct drive tool changer^^
Even if the 22 is intended for business, it looks like a decent home printer, especially with 110 volts for power.
Nothing wrong with DYI, but a good working printer is the cornerstone that one can build from.
Plus, the ability to print car parts which will not melt in Texas heat are worth it.
My work center bought a IDEX printer from this company 9 months ago and we haven’t received it yet. Pretty contradicting video of saying of buying vs building a high temp machine. We call on status and get pushed another month.
I am in a tough spot where all I can do is bide my time. I want a 22Idex, but don't have the free cash yet. I want it for a business I haven't made much less gotten the required licenses/tax status. All of which to make a product that I do not know if it will work or even sell and it is not a product that can be outsourced to a third party. It's rough. Worst case it would be a passion project as a hobby.
I think the best course would be to get the Funmat HT to do proof of concept and then get a 22Idex after making or joining a business to make for sale.
@@taprackmiss4613 I wouldn’t order the 22 IDEX right now because you probably won’t get one for a year anyways. They are delayed massively
The conflict in Ukraine put a huge hold on supply chains last year, but finally everything is running. We expect to have machines in stock in May, but with how fast orders come in, there will indefinitely still be a wait list :)
I'll finish up my build. I'm also building a project car. :) I am an engineer.
havent watched the video yet, but i GUARANTE you I can. I currently have a klipperized bastardized CR-20 that prints at 80c chamber temp, 200c print bed, 450+ nozzle. Yea, your right I need to change my Z-offset if the printer has been printing and is warmed up vs starting a print cold; but thats pretty much the only problem. Replace the belts, V-wheels with linear rails, add an AC bed, and add an infrared lamp and enclosure(to get the prints hotter than the air, good trick for high temp filaments), and your good to go. I have also got my speed benchies to around 5 minutes (following speed benchy rules) on a friggin bed slinger.
I mostly print polycarbonate and nylons, so I dont need to push past 80c for stuff like PEEK or ultem. I dont really see the point for how much they cost and how incredibly strong PC and CF-Nylon is for my applications.
I am a mechatronics engineering student tho.
obviously dumb for a buisness, but I can see adding insulation to a bambu labs printer as a great cheap way to get a great high temp machine (medium high temp,
I will disagree with you. The game changes once you go over 80 c. I have built a printer with all those things. On paper it sounds simple but its the experience that you pay for. I thought the same thing in college. Your time is valuable as an engineer and can easily cost more then the price tag they ask. Plus you get support.
Very well said. And yes, Chase, you totally can! Definitely get the context of the video, though, because it wasn't a challenge or us saying you can't :) More about overall scalable business viability :)
The 22 IDEX is a Rebranded crappy AddWise machine
This right here is the truth my friends.
I highly doubt visionminer will just slap their brand on a crappy product. This might be modified addwise machine.
I'd rather build it. Even using your car analogy. When some silly little module fails in the AMG that takes the whole car out of commission and gets backordered with no ETA I'll be enjoying my old POS that I built myself.
I talked to cole on the phone a few times. Super cool dude
I can build a brand new car in my garage for under 5000$.
(Don't ask for specs and reliability).
😂😂😂
"Sorta truee...no its not!) Gave away the goods, these things are like 80% margin for them.
There right definitely alot of issues and if you buy one of there overpriced machines you'll be needing there support every couple of days. These machines really should be cheaper for what you get.
What machines do you have experience with to support this statement? Generally the support is more with the materials, and how they all behave differently -- that's where the majority of the support comes in.
Spot on. Very well said guys.
This takeaway that "we would love you to actually build one, and please show it to us" is a bit strange since you are doing exactly the opposite not making it opensource, and not explaining the cost other than "its hard to build one, you will lose your family, and we have a call center coz its A SOLUTION..". I would rather love more in depth cost explanation, like how much are actual materials vs what you charge for designing it (oh, and call center of course xD)
If you can’t understand the price then you aren’t the type of customer they are after.
Not everything has to be open source, if they open sourced it how long do you think it would be until a company clones it and sells it much cheaper? Even traditionally open source companies like arduino and Prusa aren’t entirely open source anymore, why? Because as a business model it rarely works. If you are just creating a basic consumer level 3D printer then there is little harm to open sourcing it unless you have some really unique features, if you have a more niche product like these guys then open sourcing it would actively harm your business.
Edit: also just because they won’t open source something they have put months or years of time and lots of money into doesn’t mean they aren’t hobbyists too or aren’t interested in what other people make and you can’t stop them from looking at open source stuff either.
If you're asking the community to share with you their solutions to experienced problems isnt it only fair that you reciprocate your implemented solutions too?
Not really, they are mostly going to use it as an example of: "hey look how much time this person spent making this beautiful project, or he could have just bought one of our printer and spent the time with his family"
Just a suggestion on your price points, if it’s something important to the industry somebody will backwards engineer what you built (or design their own) and undercut you on cost. Don’t try and make money on being the only competitor because there is somebody else that is always going to be willing to undercut your pricing to marginally profitable and deal with high volumes.
If you are more than about 10-20% over material and production cost you may want to rethink your model long term.
Get China involved to lower the cost. If it works for iPhones….
Spending the few short hours to upgrade a $800 printer to match a $10,000 printer is well worth it. This is a pathetic attempt to discourage people from building their own by falsly justifying your way overpriced printers.
No what’s pathetic is your lack of ability to think properly. If you think that all it takes to upgrade an $800 printer to one that can beat $10,000 high temperature printers is a few hours then you are delusional.
Did you even watch the video?
This is cope for over pricing. Keep trying
Smart guys are using condoms, not making them in their garage. Then they have enough time to learn using them like masters...
Being at my 4th 3d printer, after many thousands (tens?) of printing, I need to admit that you are so right...!
Besides, people who need to print HT parts, always have the money to buy a good printer. A general rule would be: you do not have the money for it, you do not need those parts for real.
Even after you have such a printer there is a lot to learn to print with each material, and many times, each item is in its own right a ”special” project (talking about exotic materials).
Also, in this field one need to think about quality: there are always 3d printers, and 3d pains. Just a few latters difference. Being the ”blessed” owner of such a pain, I am doing my job with it, but still, I will gladly accept a gift printer from you guys...😎
lol bs and the same time true
I think a combination of the lighting and delivery of this makes it come off as inauthentic and disingenuous.
Totally impossiable unless your an engineer with all the experience.... and time figuring out what you had spent the time figuring out.... so not impossiable as you guys did it... there for very possiable..... this seems like common sence just with more words.