Here's Why We're All Wrong About Using Racing Assists
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
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Another Video. Another lively debate. Let us all know in the comments how you feel about you and/or other people using assist in online races.
If you're new here please consider subscribing! Thank you! - Hry
The fun part about assist, apart from being there, is that you can tailor your own experience with the game. I don't care what assists you're using as long as you have fun! And believe me when I say clean races and clean battles are so much more fun than getting wrecked left, right and center. So if the assists assist you (that's where there for) to race clean, go for it! you can always improve with or without and try a few different things here and there (preferably in solo). All so we can enjoy the game WITH you, share the fun of the experience that is racing.
A lot of games I played it wouldn't be much of any kind of cheat too cause they could set custom settings for the server and only allow what assists the host wanted so its totally up to the person joining the server a purist can enter a full no assist server and the others can enter a less demanding one...
And some games also have the option to allow assists realistically per car model so basically if the car has like traction control you can activate and deactivate and a car without it will simply not allow to use which is actually the most realistic way...
1000% yes. Play the way you need to play to be competent enough to not crash into the other drivers if you play online. It is more enjoyable to you, and to the rest of the people in the game.
What they really need to do is paint braking zones on real life roads.
Now this is the damn truth lol
In places they already have.
I've played racing games as long as they've been around as I'm a petrolhead and a mechanic IRL. I use no assists except the braking line just because like you say I'm not 100% on all the tracks, I don't really follow it as I find the lines are sometimes too early or I prefer a deeper braking zone and faster exit but they are there just to remind me on different layouts etc. I enjoy knowing I controlled the car, not the assists. When I jump in a really fast car, like the KTM which is an animal, I put TC on sport like I probably would IRL. I don't know if that car has it IRL but if it's like that it probably should!
I think it's fine for people to use whatever they need because if you know how to drive you can get a bit more out of the car with no assists anyway and it makes the game more accessible to more people. I always used to use ABS on Forza games because I found it locked up too easily but I've turned it off for this game as I've found a nice balance with my pedals and I've found the braking phase more controllable and nuanced.
I don't think it will make any difference for bad dirty drivers, assists or not they are going to play dirty, they just need to be banished to their own lobbies and the penalty system needs a massive overhaul to punish blatantly dirty driving like people doing pit manoeuvres when getting passed, the matchmaking needs to actually do something. I'd rather race 6 clean drivers than 18 dirty ones. I've earned my S - 4865 rating, put me against similar people!
The racing line in Forza is a nice reference but it is fairly crude. Most of the time it will be indicating for you to be braking when in reality it's far to early to be braking and if somebody behind you knows that you'll effectively brake check them. A lot of the racing lines them selfs are also just wrong, Indy GP penultimate turn for instance the racing line has you enter the corner way to tight. You can tell who is relying on it to much because of the lines that they take and when they brake. I don't have a problem with people using it (I use it too) but you should still try to understand the correct braking zones and racing line independent of the assist if you want to improve. I mainly use it so if i'm behind someone I have an idea when they might brake as to not rear end them.
Well said
agree, I think it is about practice and learning a car and track. If that means turning on a racing line so you get some reference then so be it. At some point you should be looking for visual markers on the track for your racing line.
Well said
Well done
It's a suggestion not a requirement. Some games It's dead accurate. Others It's way off. The racing line does help prevent pileups in turn 1 though.
Dan, I agree with you. I race competitively in ACC. The sim has TC etc…and we are encouraged to use it.
The tc in car is much different than the assist though
TC in the cars in ACC is a reflection of the real cars. For me, that's not an assist in this context. Not using TC in GT3 racing would be unrealistic
Nice video, subscribed. As a member of the competitive community, id like to give my take on assists, and if people should or should not be using them.
Using any assist/driving aid in a racing game is ok, and there is nothing wrong about using them, Forza's accessibility is one of its biggest strengths, and it allows drivers of all skill levels to compete in their own comfort. I find it incredibly annoying when 'hardcore' players try to make other players turn all their assists off or insult others for using them, they have it on because they want it on, its their way of playing the game and you shouldn't feel the need to tell them what is 'right' (or just what you think is the correct way of playing). If you want to use Traction control, use it. If you want to use throttle assist, use it. Sure, you might be physically faster on track without them on, but that is the players choice.
The two most common assists that people are 'shamed' for is the driving line, and ABS. Both are completely ok to use, of course.
There is a massive misunderstanding with driving line users, and its that people think that such users follow it to the arrow. As this might apply to an amount of players, it doesn't for all. Also, no it doesn't make you a worse driver for using it, funny thing is that 90% of the entire competitive community has AT LEAST braking line on, as it is literally free information at the drivers disposal. Of course we don't follow it to the arrow, its slower in places. To be fair In recent titles the driving line has gotten better and better, to the point where in some corners the fastest line through a corner is exactly what the driving line shows. Also when people say, 'oh just use the braking markers'. Yes we do, but remember we are playing FORZA, those boards are commonly knocked over, rendering them useless.
Before diving into why ABS is ok to use, id like to tell a little story on my journey through the competitive scene.
Before I joined any racing league, everyone in the competitive scene, and I bet most of the entire Forza player base, thought that ABS ON is the slower alternative to ABS OFF, as this was the case from FH4, and beforehand. when I joined, everyone started to forget this, as I MAIN ABS, and was (and still am in FM8) at least very close to pace with the fastest drivers in the entire Forza franchise, and in FH5 sometimes challenging and even beating arguably the best player at the time on multiple occasions, ESV Mars. I was the player that made everyone rethink ABS's potential, as everyone just assumed it was slower, but undoubtedly lucky for me, FH5 AND FM8 ABS are both on pace with ABS off. My success through the leagues eventually landed me a spot in arguably the most prestigious team in the franchise, Elusive Motorsports (ESV).
ABS is something people shouldn't be afraid to use. It's proven to be on pace in the current titles, and nobody should be discouraged to try to become better just because they struggle with locking brakes. It is literally not a hurdle in the journey to becoming a faster driver anymore. Both ABS on and off have their pros and cons, such as ABS's mechanic named myself, ABS rotation, where the rear wheels slide out under braking and cornering around slower corners for early turning, and how ABS off users can learn to lock the inside front tyre for more rotation. Either is perfectly fine to use, it literally just comes down to driving style.
In conclusion, use whatever assists you want to use. The people who gatekeep others just because they think their way of playing the game is superior to others are just plain wrong.
TL;DR - Assists are ok to use, I use ABS myself, and am not ashamed to use it
The only assist I use is the ABS On assist. Once I get comfortable with it, I might try it without the ABS On assist. But like you said, race how you want and there is nothing wrong if a person wants to use assists or not.
I am still quite new to Forza. I have been out of the console gaming scene for a while, as in a long decade while lol. But my wife still knew I loved gaming and bought me a Series X last month on my bday. I always loved racing games, especially when I owned a PSOne and got my hands on Gran Turismo. So I DL'ed Forza Motorsport on the 10th of October.
I used to drive with the full line assist and then limited it to the Brake line assist, but I noticed I never paid attention to markers on the sides of the track to give me hints on when it is: time to get ready to brake, slow down (slightly throttle off), hit the brake, or SMASH THE BRAKE lol, and then turn. What I did in lieu of the Brake line assist, was and still do now on tracks I am not familiar with, is that I will do an open race and set the difficulty where I can keep up with one of the AI cars. Like I mentioned I am still new to Forza so AI lvl 3 is the limit for me, lol. So that I can follow a car and get the gist of how to navigate the track, while at the same time familiarizing myself with the track surroundings. This made me actually learn an unfamiliar track faster than using the Brake lines. Not to mention I got better at learning the tracks faster, over having the Brake line assist.
I am having a blast playing FM. I am playing through all of the BC modes atm. I do not want to rush into online MP, as I know I will probably frustrate others for driving like Ms. Daisy and my habit of braking early into the turns, rather than pushing the car to the limit, hehe. After being gone from console gaming for over a decade, I feel like a kid again, lol.
As a blind Forza player, these assists help me so, so much. I just can't get the hang of steering, or proper breaking. I still love the game to death, though.
huh
Me too, i use all assists but i love the game to death xD
How the hell you type that?
To be fair I think pretty much half the grid is blind in most lobbies
@@garymapes6955 There are keyboards with Braille and language assistants. Welcome to 2024
I use the braking line for one of the reasons you mentioned. I don't play enough to know every car I'm driving by heart on every single track. So I use the line as a quick guide to base all my real braking points that I locate during the practice and race. So for example on Indy's infield, there's a long straight into a left turn. I don't brake where the braking line says I should brake, but I use the line as a warning or a locator for the actual braking point I want to use. I brake on the start of the outside kerb instead of where the line says. Or on the section after that there's a distance board marker on the outer wall's fence I use to brake. But the line is telling me to brake way before that.
There's also other benefits of the line like adjusting speed mid corner or even if you're going wide you can still use the colors of the line to tell whether you're going too fast for the turn. I could see arguments for that being "cheating" but it's not an issue I would ever care about. There's types of feedback that a game could never give you otherwise, that would be much easier to figure out irl. I find the braking line just one of those things to help fill the gap. The only thing I wish I could change is that I wish it could be put somewhere less obtrusive, putting it right on the road kind of messes with the look of the game.
Such a good video. I have been reluctant to play online racing without the braking lines and don't want to crash into everyone til I get good enough to judge them my self.
Excellent point on the braking lines and knowing where to brake.
The assist is not the matter when you break too late or you don't respect your line... They don't need assist, they need to learn how to racing...
Yep. It would make a big difference if these types of players understood that you don't have to win the race on the first corner. Or that a car like this really doesn't fit through the non-existent gap when the car in front is already at the apex. Or that being overtaken isn't a personal insult.
In the early days of Forza online, before hoppers, we used to host games with traction and stability control off (everything else allowed) the reason was to combat what we called rocket cars.
Which were cars upgraded heavily biased towards power and the only way to control them was those assists, which made rocket cars unbeatable unless you built a rocket car.
Without those assists they couldn't even finish a lap, some couldn't even get to the first corner they were that heavily biased.
RX 3 being a prime example for FM 6, on the oval tracks.
I use the breaking line, because braking markers aren't really clear in Forza, graphically it's a bit muddy in the distance, and lighting in dark isn't good enough to see being points in cockpit.
That being said, you'll be faster in Forza without ABS, and launch better without TC.
What annoys me is those who do turn off everything when they're driving a Ferrari for example. In real life turning of TC on a Ferrari will kill you yet in forza TC is turned off. There should be a gauge where you can adjust the assists like TC, from 1 to 5 for example so you can at least have it set to a near real life experience.
Turning off TC in a Ferrari will not kill you if you know how to drive it, but I agree that TC should be adjustable, especially if it is in the real car.
Well they kind of did it. You could put TC on or you could put TC sport mode which gives you a little slip. I like it
Ive always used breaking lines whwre possible. Its more for when its a crowded corner stops me running into people and gives me an idea of when eveyone elae isnbreaking ect. I dont use ABS ect but i have always thought that is a personal choose. Im definitely with you on this.
Also have to take into consideration that in real life racing, you get the feedback from the car not just from the wheel, but through the whole body. When you factor that out by playing racing games, you are at a disadvantage. Hence, assists make perfect sense, especially if they are being used IRL.
I don't use any assists and hardly even use many of the HUD elements as I don't like the clutter on my screen. I do this because it makes me most happy. If using assists makes you happy, then use them. All that matters is you are having fun.
I have noticed people think they need to be directly on the racing line, when they are not, jerk their car over to get back on the line regardless if a car is next to them or not
really like the breaking zones in GT (compared ACC/Forza colored line) just as a gentle reminder to look for my break marker, after I practiced without. IRL my windscreen and details would be much bigger than my 27". Also I find the little pinpoints marking turn-in/apex very useful and not a distraction
the braking line helps so much for when like you said. youre using different cars on different tracks and you dont know the tracks well enough. eventually after a few laps. you realise that the brake line isnt even correct and you learn to brake later. but it still helps just letting you know where the turn is on new tracks.
I think it depends on your initial skill level, the game and the physics of the game, in GT7 for instance using TC will make you slower but in ACC its vital, I'm not sure about forza I don't have it but if any assist actually assists then it will be exploited, there are no top drivers in GT7 or GTS that used TC, however TC in GT7 in some road cars does seem to help a bit on certain tracks, racing line assists can be useful on tracks you're just learning if you're a beginner, on GTS in official season competition assists we're prohibited but not including TC or ABS which I don't regard as assists anyway as they are used in real life racing.
i'm mostly sure that sport tc in forza can be faster is some cars and moments than a common human modulating the gas , maybe a super pro with a nice pedal can do it but for the normal peasants like me sport tc is the key to be able to drive the mega monster cars correctly
You have a point Dan. I think there are different type of assists available in simulators or racing games. Traction Control and ABS is a real life system, so having these assists is not making the driving experience less realistic. Especially in the most popular class of sim racing - which is GT3. These cars have been designed specifically to run with those assists. Yet, there are some people who insist on driving a GT3 car with TC set to 0. Another type of assists I have seen were assist like "stay on track" assist - something unrealistic, where the car is pushed back to the track to help keeping the car on the track. Now, should you use it? That depends on strictly you as a driver. Sim racing is a hobby for many of us but some can devote hours daily, some are "Sunday drivers". It is our responsibility to decide what works best for us: do we want to slowly grind our skill level to have only real-life assists or we want to jump in to some exciting racing with everything which the developer gave us to make it easier? Unfortunately, open lobbies show that the choice is not done appropriately. Any Monza T1 is a graveyard of missed breaking points and their victims. Crashes are inevitable and they do happen in real life with even the most talented drivers. However, in the virtual world it happens way more often. So I would risk the statement is not if you use assists or not matters. What matters more is the match making systems. Separating those low level skilled drivers, perhaps enforcing some sort of assists on them to help them building the race craft could be the option. Currently, iRacing is praised for its match making platform. But it is an great expense for iRacing subscription and the better mach making systems should be a norm rather than exception. I would love to see more focus of the developers in this direction.
From playing Forza motorsport online lately id agree that racing line is good for public online lobbies, I have had the best close racing of any sim on forza it may not be the greatest sim ever but the racing is great full lobbies in spec cars and the penalty system seems very good, i think a lot of this comes down to more casual players playing with racing line on it means they know when to break and turn instead of guessing which leads to way less craching, and then the racers who know tracks can play without but overall it makes for way better online racing experiance
It's not a sim racer! Stop calling it that. It's played on a controller ffs
@@mstirlzand breath.....
@@mstirlz I play it on a moza DD wheel for you info. So stop been a high horse sim racing arsehole your the kind of person that drags the whole community down.
@mstirlz dose it really bother u that much it being called a sim lol
I was using a Ferrari TR512 in a C class on Lime Rock I downgraded the other night for first time. I heard other drivers accusing me of being on full assists and chatting about how drivers like me need to learn to drive. I’ve done trackdays in real life and set cars up in real life lol.
Forza motorsport needs realy no assists Servers where ABS, TC and stability control is not avaiable
What forza needs is dynamic assists and assist you can change during the race. Like real race cars where you can adjust ABS, TCS, brake bias etc.
And I want to see who was driving with which assists in the end of the race
@ramonruegg8653 don't really see the need for it. Most assists, except for ABS, are actually slower than no assists in Forza. Also in real life certain race classes use assists.
The breaking line causes so many crashes because people think they just need to stick on it no matter what.
Does this video only apply to sim racing bc I have a controller
No I would say assists would be even more helpful using a controller!
Heres a perspective of a Veteran Forza Player that also own and race the most popular tittles in the market for more than a decade.
I have always been on top 1% of the leaderboard times with just a few laps after building a car , i share only my greatest creations with the community for Multiplayer races so their can have decent cars to drive.
In Forza
If your goal is to become the fastest version of yourself on Hot lap mode , learn while using NO TCS, NO ABS , NO stability control, currently Clutch its optional, Braking line only as optional , Steering on NORMAL mode.
If your Goal its to have fun and dive into multiplayer to try and get some door to door racing , use AS MANY ASSISTS you like or need !
Don’t let the Elitists that can’t drive for Sh#t tell you how to play YOUR game ! Simples 👊
I am a VR user whenever there’s compatibility and a NO assists type of guy simply due to being an Adrenaline junkie in real life, and i always welcome any assists users if that means they can finally reach my bumper and we both have FUN ! 👊😎🤙
funny how you say that ur a veteran player, any veteran 1% rivals player would know that sim steering is faster
I run no assists except braking line and I try and brake later than when the line tells me too.
I probably could be better if I run laps without it on but I find it helps me be more consistent and able to get a semi decent lap in any car I first jump into
I'm an above-average racer, but not near the top. Have raced online with a family and friends group for about 13 years now. We race in Forza and the F1 series.
For F1, we allow pit assist, and that's about it. We generally know the braking points from practice, and we are driving the same car all season long. Dynamic weather makes things interesting in our 50% races.
For Forza, we do allow the braking line only. My reasoning is similar to what you mentioned--we are jumping in a different class every 4-5 laps. It is a nice reminder to see the braking line so we don't have to guess from class to class. It increases fender-benders and takes away from the fun a bit.
Online multiplayer outside my own group? There are some great racers out there, but you endure a lot of mayhem to find them. Just my thoughts. Good video!
In forza i find it acceptable to use the braking line because who knows if that fox body mustang can stop or not lol. Thank you for the video. Peace✌️
In past Motorsport games, the assists made you slower. In this one, not as much. I do think the braking line is something you should try to go without if you are on a wheel. This is because once you turn it off, you have to then learn your limits and how the car feels going through corners. I kept it on for so long on past titles and was very hesitant to turn it off. Once I did, I did not regret it. It took some time, but became very rewarding to learn a track and find my own rhythm. Just me. And it also helped with the immersion factor. I'm on the fence about ABS and TC in the new Forza, and I wish that it had a setting that matched the irl car you are driving. Using ABS is still slower and still has a longer braking zone and still robs you of the feeling of the car on its limit in the new Forza. Again, for wheel users, I'd say don't use it if you have a load cell pedal. TC has setting called 'sport' now and I tried it. What I found was it interfered with those times I was trying to induce oversteer through corners by blipping the throttle. This is a potentially huge damper on lap times, but for some who don't use that technique, I can see where it might help the heavy foot-folks coming out of corners. Again, I just gotta say that for wheel users, turning all these assists off increases the feel for the car that you can have, and eventually giving you more of a sense of control. Find your limits through trial and error, but make it a priority to not make those errors at the cost of other players. You got clobbered in this video, not because your opponents weren't using assists, but because they haven't learned how to control the car, with or without assists. In fact, I'd say the ones that turned through you as if you weren't there were relying on the racing line instead of racing to the conditions on track, like, you know, there's a freaking car in the middle of my racing line so maybe I should steer around it. They don't even appear to be trying to drive well, just as long as they get ahead of you.
I agree. But I think the biggest problem with sim-cade games online MP, is that there is no punishment for driving like this. It's just accepted that this is how everyone drives. Then these guys come over to more authentic online racing experiences and try to drive the same. The footage in this video is not racing. Racing is about trying to go as fast as you can while staying on the rack and not hitting anyone. I did not see anyone in this footage trying to do either.
Sad that you even have to give disclaimers like that at the beginning of your video. Also, thanks for playing Wreckfest! I haven't played that game in a while.
I agree that in certain titles that are more on the casual side, assists are a good idea. It will keep the racing clean and make things more competitive. If I want a more "realistic" experience where all racers have to race with the same parameters, then I'd race in a league that has rules or restrictions that apply to everyone. This is why I mainly use iRacing, but I do enjoy jumping into more casual sims where I can use an assist that others may not be using, but help me to race if I don't know a track that well, or I there isn't enough time to practice between races. That's why I like to see that there is a variety of racing games that offer different experiences to appeal to a wide audience.
When people are learning a new track it is good use the line but you will be faster safer and learn to pass better if you don't depend on it if you learn to pass clean and safe you will be a better driver and people will want to race with you. But a ton of people think they are good but they can't pass a car with out hitting them. learning to race clean is a art you have to develop.Passions, Passions
Interesting,, earned a sub bud.
Awesome, thank you!
I have no issue with assists but then i'm a bit of a noob. I've only recently got myself a wheel having played old f1 games on controller. This is also my first forza game.
I'm still learning how to set my cars up in this game which is difficult to begin with. Most guides tell you what kinda what the sliders do but don't explain it as 'if your car reacts like this.. try changing this setting' etc
I am getting more confident and have recently disabled traction control, but don't know any of the tracks even close to well enough to turn off the racing line/braking zones. It's hard enough already to see the braking zones when you're behind a bunch of people in an online race especially as i find it easier to drive in 1st person camera at this point.
I have no issue with people using assists. If people do have an issue, maybe a compromise would be lower skill rating the more assists you use in online races.
I use a controller, abs, traction and stability on sport. Steering wheel setups need different car setups. I don’t have room for a wheel and pedals at the moment.
You are right about braking lines, there are too many tracks/classes and you need them to race if you don't know the tracks blindfolded. (literally the only assist I use) Although they cut half the tracks and now you get practice laps for 10-20 minutes... so arguably less important now.
However TCS in forza allows you to cheese tracks like LeMans with bike tires and 1500 HP and that annoys the shit out of me. Also IRL serious track day dudes disable ABS and/or TCS because it makes them slow... which is how it used to be in Forza 4 and was fair, run them if you can't control the car, abandon them once you can. Now TCS is faster than having throttle control and the game has enough nannies to literally drive laps for you on it's own.
Finally the gamespass nubs that are crawling all over the game would find a way to suck, they don't hit you because they don't know how to brake, they hit you because they can punt you out and take your position. To them every racing game is Need For Speed/Mario Kart and that's how they will play it.
Totally agree with you there. In the case of Forza Motorsport the answer is pretty straightforward. Whatever assist makes you faster and cleaner (while giving you clean laps) shall be used. I have personally got some "funny" comments from Sim Racing fans because I do use braking lines on FM and show it on my videos. Their sim racing mindset clearly got them out of context there.
As someone who usually races in VR on AC and have started playing Forza on a screen, I find it difficult to tell the depth of the track. I have turned on the breaking line to compensate for this. I know it's not completely accurate but it does help.
Itprobably wouldn't use it of I knew I was only going to be racing one track for the day with a single car but in Forza that is not the case.
Ive always hated guidance lines in the track because they distract me a lot. Thats why i love the braking cones in GT. On forza ive found the deceleration alert (it's under assists for blind people) very helpfull. An audio cue doesn't distract me so much. The sound gets annoying over time, but i think its great for learning a track fast
That's a great tip! I didn't even realize that was an option.
Oh yeah, I run with breaking lines all the time. But I use it as a guide. So typically I break a little into the line if you know what. I mean a little past what they suggest
Do you currently use any assists while racing online?
Yes, braking lines are must as I don't know the tracks and cars that well. I am rather casual racer but taking my races as seriously as possible (quite proud of my S rating in Forza :) ) I use Traction and Stability control on more powerful cars as i learn to control my wheel and pedals better. I think big question is how many players try to race and how many just hop in for some Need for Speed like arcade race. Game is new, it is on game pass so entry barrier is low. I have high hopes for Safety rating to really matter once it settles down and separate serious racers (of any skill) from arcade torpedoes.
My eye sight isn't what it used to be and I need the braking line assist 🤷♀
Even tho forza isn’t the most sim type of game I still enjoy turning off the majority of assists to really test my skill. Yk like learning the braking zones and racing line on my own through the practice time.
Completely agree AND people have to accept they aren't getting first ace every race.
I use abs because my g29 brakepedal is not precise enough when comparing to real car
I use brake line in forza just to use as a reference because theres no good shadows or 50,100,150 boards
I am just a casual in racing games and I used to play sim racing game where the cars allowed to change the asssit on the fly. It helped me alot to be way more aggressive on some sections of these games. Now my G27 is broken and I need to fix it. Just the fact I can grab a controller and not be "perfect" but still be competitive with asssits I think is fine. I don't think the community or the game offring is mature enough in Forza to have special events without assists.
I would love to drive without assistance, but I can't because I'm using the controller. Jumping from one game to another makes it even more challenging to get the muscle memory needed.
Back in the day there were no assist options and now the wheel has on built assists and the OP engine breaking on downshift is ridiculous.
I have no issues with others using the assists, I find it rewarding to drive with none, but especially on Forza I will use the braking line on a track I don't know.
For some reason I have real problems seeing reference points for braking and turn in in Forza. It feels like it is missing track details. I use the racing line for that, it's not accurate so you shouldn't hug it like your life depends on it. It is also useful for online to know where most people will brake, because a lot of players use the line religiously and brake way too early
Nice demolition derby footage.
I turn off all the assists but i use the full racing line and track limits with ribbons. They make me faster. On top of that, i think it still requires skill to actually execute proper braking, turning and accelerating. It’s not like the racing line drives for you. People also have to understand that the racing line is more of a suggestion than a rule. I use it for braking but I don’t use it for vehicle placement on the track. I use the ribbons for that 😂
I appreciate your opinion! I agree if you want to use them have at it. Most of us sim race for fun. We're not pros, just an ordinary gamer. Forza Motorsports online players really need to use it. They are all horrible!
Join a fm8 racing league if u want clean racing
If you feel like you are having more fun and doing better for having them on I say go for it, I’ve been known to have them on from time to time as I play lots of different types of games from fps to racing and sometimes need abit of a lesson, plus I do work for a living so don’t have time to learn everything.
I think in games like ACC or iRacing (does it have braking line?) it would be fine, but casual people on Forza Motorsport are too much focused on braking line, that it makes things worse. As quite recent enjoyer of these games I remember how turning off braking line in FM7 suddenly made me see more. You can not compare it how it feels now when you turn it on, but you have to compare when its been all you used before. Its like hypnotic focus on the line. In peoples mind the red bit is when they have to brake, not the car in front slowing down. IMO if forza had a lobby with full damage on and no braking line, in a week or two the racing improvement would be huge.
Assists to me are different than the racing line. While I don't care if someone uses the line, it doesn't help for overtaking, doesn't help when they are closely following another car into the braking zone and for turn-in.
They rely on the line too much and just like a hot lapper; whenever something is slightly different they mess up because they can't see the line and udont understand how to compensate.
Its great for learning a track, but the line is definitely not optimal and it does train your eye to the wrong part of the track. Mainly you drive off of the hood of your car instead of looking ahead down the track (this is why so many people pule into wrecks or slow going cars).
This is a race craft issue, not necessarily a "assists" issue.
*Sees that you're using hard tyres in a 7 lap race and dies a little inside*
I've never had an issue with assists, I've always used things like T/C & ABS, they've never gotten me shunned. Using breaking lines really helps you to learn new tracks too, and once you get more confident you'll find yourself using your own to get faster times and I've always used them, even for tracks I know really well like Bathhurst 'cos it's a visual reminder that "Hey, might wanna break soon.." "yo, you really should break now" if I happen to be distracted by a lot of stuff going on. Having ADHD, it helps to snap my focus back sometimes.
Like I said, I've never been shunned for using assists, and I've never seen anyone being shunned for it either..I think most people understand that everyone was new to sim racing once. The only exception here is using automatic assists, auto braking, steering, etc. I hate those, and unless you're 10 anyone using them simply shouldn't be sim racing.
Traction and stability control make you slower, at least for me. It holds back power and feels like driving in sludge.. Also most people don't know how to use the braking line. The braking line is on average and i didn't find it changed per car. So us it as a guide and not when to brake. My Gt cars have the same lines but all brake different. My M8 can get deep into the red on that line before braking. Yes, without tires screeching or crazy tire wear. Driving without ABS will learn you.
I don't think I can agree with the line. Most if not all of the players you will come across online will be using it in some form. A lot of crashes happen because it doesn't teach players how to drive off it and use different breaking points when you are attacking or defending. It also doesn't teach new players that you have to brake earlier while drafting too, and combined with not knowing the alternate lines that's were a lot of the so-called "ramming" comes from.
The other assists should be on on a per car basis. Like a factory or spec series setting. Would've liked a bit of flexibility in them.
Great points here!
TC/ABS on GT2/3 irl. Different levels.
The brake line can be helpful but is mixed, it’s slow and wrong (my opinion.)
There’s a track I can’t place the name right now. T1 is a right, and you go up hill with large sweeping S and down a straight to a chicane. This chicane is simple. But if you turn on the line, it wants you to enter this from the far left. And make large turns to get past.
I couldn’t figure out why ppl were entering this chicane on the far left. Till I turned line on and saw..
Another example is Spa, the brake line on the back wants you to slow down for the small left.. nope. Right side and send it left, Flat out. Just go with faith. Maybe let off for a second. Don’t brake.. just go!
I can basically tell if you’re using the line in MP. Because everything you do is too early or a weird line and you’re braking when you just can let off the throttle or use the small inputs on throttle to assist the turn.
For other assists. Whatever you want. I really don’t mind at all. As long as you’re having fun!
But I know most tracks well from ACC. And use my own tune. I know limits.
S 4200 so not the best but have been gaining ranking with practice.
turning off assists is personal choice for most people, but for some undrivable cars like those powerful porshe and ferraris which spin as soon as you turn, forza should have some sort of recommended Traction controls settings. Same as in real life, those cars are undrivable without traction controls.
Although it can be car dependent, in most cars up to 800pi I've ok without ABS TCS and STM, between 800 to 900 can be iffy but with the right car and tune I'm ok but 900+ I just don't have the skill set to handle the power so no choice but to turn on TCS on.
Would be nice if the cars assists mirrored real life imo.
Using assists are for folks like myself who don't have all the time to put in a day to learn a track. Between work, family and life you need help to get acclimated to the tracks and help maintain some proper racing etiquette. If and when I feel comfortable with the car and track I will ease off the assists... maybe.
The problem with racing line, esp. in Forza Motorsport 8 is, that there is a ton of players that have it switched on and will ram you off „their“ line even on straights, cause the religiously will follow that line no matter what. I had so many occasions where i was on the line, a mile away from next turn (like on Old Mulsane) and got rammed into Barry R cause someone thought „this is my line, it belongs to me and me alone and not you“. So best advice is, switch it on, stay away from it.
I don’t frown upon it but I’d prefer to play with other people who do not use it. Hardcore rooms for hardcore players like me who use no assists of any kind
Not a fast driver, current rating around 2000, but I do hold an S safety rating. And in my experience the driving line does not makes me faster, nor safer.
I occasionally use it when I haven’t driven in a circuit for a long time and have to hop on qualifying without enough practice laps, but if I can get 3 laps of practice I feel like I don’t need it.
And the main problem with the racing line is, you are back to square one after you turn it off. Turning racing lines off was the best thing for me to actually learn how to drive in racing games.
Gran turismo online play is less chaotic even in C D lobbies because of practice.
ABS and TCS are in most modern racecars these days. Ive no problem using those. I also dont mind using the full racing line. It's only a reference. Its the assists that drive the car itself that i take issue with. If you use those, you're not really getting a good feel for the car, or the track.
playing Forza Motorsport feels like the physics in this game is the most scripted, artificialized ever seen on a "simcade", i almost sense the computer taking the car out of my control; not loosing racing/driving control, but simply the game assuming the inputs or numbling them down to do a slide, or a loose rear, climbing curbs, impacts etc, and i play this game with every, literally every assists: OFF, even ABS. I think they should categorize players on levels of playing mode, for example, if the people choose the most "simulation" config, the game should block the not realistic assists, for example: no racing line whatsoever, abs, traction and stability assists, allowed only on cars and levels that match the real thing, and this players should only connect to "simulation" servers and so on, if the guy chooses the most arcade/for fun mode, then everything is allowed, but this player should not connect on "simulation mode" servers, only on for fun, or simcade servers.
The only assist I care about people using or not is people that (I assume) are using assisted braking in online play because it makes them brake check people.
No idea if you can even use assisted braking in forza online, but it seems like some people are.
I agree with you and people should not feel bad about using them. If its used in the real world on that car, then its not cheating. Braking line in online lobbies I think would help a lot of people, in general, like you said.
With you on this one. Use Assists
I have no problem with using assists like braking or driving lines, but I wish they were constructed in a manner that could wean the user off of using it.
Imagine if the braking line could highlight specific side markers or objects the player can use to judge braking lines. After a while the player could leave the highlites on and turn the on road markings off. Eventually that player will start looking for trackside markers or features to judge braking, and no longer need to have the assist on when racing. It would be so much better at teaching the player how to race without the braking line...
But, I am crazy for thinking this.
😂😂😂
Only thing that triggered me was the terrible cockpit view. I've never been in a car with so little visibility.
When I play online I want to win, so use whatever makes you better, faster.
It’s gate keeping, pure and simple. Which who does that benefit. If you are faster with all assists off than people using assists than nothing changes. But if you’re slower than a person using a full racing line that is entirely a you issue. Full racing lines have always been more conservative, as are braking lines.
And yeah, like you said, even real world race cars have TC and ABS, and every road going car has TC, ABS, and SC. So if race cars and teams in real life have those enabled how can it be unrealistic. Also if a car is undrivable without them in real life it is unrealistic if the car is manageable with them off and points to inaccurate simulation.
If leagues want to limit or outright exclude racing assists, that’s fine. But to act like they shouldn’t be welcome everywhere is extreme. Let people have fun. Fun is why most even bother with racing, sim or otherwise, to begin with. Gatekeeping like that is just trying to gatekeep fun.
From my experience with forza, traditionally no assists were faster, FM4 I even used clutch, not because I wanted too, but because the competition was
Now in FM8 I use braking lines and ABS, and only use "sport" TC on certain cars as I find it too intrusive. Needs a scale like GT7
My thought is that the people at the center of the "knowing when to stop" issue are not watching these videos, nor are they waiting for anyone to tell them to use the line assist or not. Theyre in every racing game on console. Forza Motorsport has created a scenario, on Xbox anyway, that wasnt previously available; One where we are put in practice pre-race for in many cases much more time than the length of the actual race. This is pretty intelligent design if you're looking to encourage people to maybe use some assists like the line in practice, but practice properly so you can ditch it for the race. Again, though, most of the people with this issue are not so aware or even concerned with external input. Hardheaded mthrfckers is what I mean, sir. They're everywhere.
people can use whatever they want as assist idc. but personally i feel like TC off helps me being faster, but if the car im in is too slippery or when its raining, i will increase TC. as for ABS, i feel like theres no point in disabling it. wheel lock is annoying.
Im on controller using cockpit view since the first GRID and NFS Unleashed. I tried using no assists and drive in manual but it all just slowed me down way too much because I was just focusing on not spinning out and wondering wich gear Im on.
In Forza online Im using assists on sport and breaking line because it just works for me. Im almost always on the pole or top 3 and Im winning a lot of races. Im saftey S with 4800ish skillpoints so most people in my lobbies are clean racing without ramming.
Im having a blast and thats what its all about right, having fun. So everybody should do what works best for them.
And if using no assists can make you go faster, then no one should be bitching about people using such, because why wont they just turn theirs off and be faster then anybody else? Doesnt make sense crying about others using assists.
Old Forza allowed custom lobbies, I always hated getting in one that was forced cockpit view, but it made me a better driver.
I think a lot of people know exactly when to brake, they just taking advatage of the penality system. Its far to easy to manipulate in FM. Lets say you qualify p2 and you and p1 were considerably quicker than p3 and the rest of the grid. In this scenario which comes up a lot, as p2 i can just shunt p1 off the track going into turn 1, at most pick up a 3 second time penalty (rare) and still easily win the race because the only other guy with the pace to get within 3 seconds of me is getting held up and smashed to pieces by the much slower, middle of the grid.
Happened 2 me yesterday but i was p1
Some people would say using a sim rig for a console games is using an assist
Yes braking line & ABS
100% agree
It all depends on what I am after on the day if I want to simulate real racing I will only run what the real world car/series runs assist wise but if I'm just having a jam playing for fun in the likes of forza etc I will run things like braking lines like you have in the video. The assists I will never run are braking and steering assists where it does it or part of it for you. If other want to run them I'm fine with it if you want to have a full on hard core race where others don't then join a league etc but just run of the mill open lobbies etc let people run what they want who cares as long as everyone is having fun that's what counts
If you want to simulate real racing then stop playing forza
@@mstirlzcringe
@@mikeuk666 you a shill? Keep believing this broken half a game is great. They may fix it in 30 updates 😂
@@mstirlz yet your still around attention seeking over it. Move on or stop crying everywhere 😆
I always turn all the assists on only because the ai is literally 5x faster then my little brain lol 😅 but my biggest hate right now is crashing trying to get the lfa
I'm on controller I'm going to use assist. Plus in real life gt3 use traction control and abs
Too my surprise another player told me I could get banned for using the assists 😂 and that something about Forza Horizon did it. Somehow I do not think that will be the same here because it’s not like FH imo.
totally agree
I reckon just let people use what they want to use. Just because you race with no assists it doesn't mean everyone else has to.
Maybe if the games used assists more logically. Add traffic cones or really exaggerate the rubber on the track to mark the braking zones rather than a superimposed line. Personally I’ve found the corner distance markers really hard to see in Forza.
The racing line isn’t always accurate in terms of best line and braking. Depends on your car setup, how you did the last corner, how you do next corner and driving style. It puts me off.
Looking at the footage it looks like everyone needs assistance 😂if that was real the local morgue would be full after each race 😂😂
I use iracing no assist full sim, I play Forza for fun since everyone playing number cars.
TCS is used in GT3 in real life so? 😮