Ancient Faith Today Live: On the Movement to Revive the Female Diaconate (w/ Patrick Mitchell)
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Fr. Thomas is joined by Protodeacon Patrick Mitchell to discuss the history of the ancient role of deaconess and to respond to the current movement to ordain women to the diaconate.
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Ancient Faith Today Live: On the Movement to Revive the Female Diaconate (w/ Patrick Mitchell)
#orthodoxchurch #easternorthodox #orthodoxy #ancientfaith
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Let's to follow tradition. That is orthodoxy, not liberalizm or protestanizm. We don't want changes.
This is not a thing we need. People trying to change things, just need to stop. We want Orthodoxy, not modernism, not Protestantism, not Papism, not anything else. We must defend the faith that was once delivered to the saints.
Women are not anything less in the Church, these people need to just stop.
Are you a woman? From what I hear from women there is a dire need for them....
This was one smoking great episode. Thanks for posting
Not needed.
Leave "revival" to the evangelicals. The church tradition has unfolded as it has and is in no need of change.
Absolutely correct ☦️☦️☦️
Well as an Orthodox you failed at Pneumatology right there...maybe you should join the Protestants?
May this never happen
These people are introducing heresy. I pulling my support
Can you explain what you mean?
Yes yes and amen amen. Jezebel is attempting to infiltrate... You would have to remove the theotokos in order to make women leaders
An excellent book on this topic is “The Disappearing Deaconess: Why the Church Once Had Deaconesses And Then Stopped Having Them” by Brian Mitchell. It is very balanced and grounded in the teaching of the a church Fathers on gender roles.
Did you even listen to the episode? That’s literally who’s being interviewed😂
I often think that these types of discussions, proposals, & objections go off the rails a bit because they are focused on formalities & rules rather than needs. It seems to me that if a bishop is in need of servants in the Church that are more or less “official” that he has the authority to create them. Rather than creating a class of female minor clergy with possible portfolios, if the bishops are in need, let them use their authority to meet that need. If the patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa in his unique Church has need of women to extend aspects of his ministry, and he has used his authority to meet that need, it’s really not our business. If it’s questionable, let his synod question him. If the concern is wider, let the Synaxis of Pateiarchs question him. It seems out of order on one hand to accuse “the servant of another,” to quote the Lord. Or on the other to create/restore an order merely to have it. The bishops have the authority to meet their needs. Let them use it. But why impose a make-work order? I should add that bishops should act according to the canons and their synod. I’m advocating rogue bishops. I’m advocating purpose-driven solutions based on their apostolic authority within the Church and according to Tradition.
No.
It is truly a great day when you as an Orthodox woman, who has been born , baptized and raised into an Eastern Orthodox church, are being told by male western converts why you really shouldn't be a priest in your Church.
Hearing this broadcast makes me sad. Mark 7:1-9 exists for these lessons.
That has nothing to do with this. It’s pretty ignorant of church history to suggest that the traditions that developed out of the Christian community are equivalent to the pharisaical rigorous traditions.
So, you didn't like that one? Well, how about this one: Matt. 19:3-8? I hope the point doesn't escape your reasoning this time.
@@EvonRomano-ge2ogHow would you know what I want? Are you asking me or telling me?
It isn't my intent to sow confusion in such matters. For clarification, I am alluding to what Jesus said about the hardness of our hearts.
Why is the attaining of power the conclusion you reach, rather than the ability to serve in a capacity that best suits one's expression of gifts?
@@EvonRomano-ge2og What's disgusting is that you assert what I mean rather than ask what I mean.
You'd rather be seen as chastising me and putting me in my "place" by your condescending tone and dismissive conduct in this chat thread.
But hardness if hearts has nothing to do with this, right?
@@EvonRomano-ge2og Please reread ALL of my responses to you. I have answered your questions, though it may not appear in the ways that you wished.
Please point out where I accused the priests of being akin to "Christ killers." Once again, I alluded to the hardness of our hearts; which is on full display in this entire exchange. The fact that your comment has been highlighted furthers my point of why I am sad.
I know you think that you're being the "rod of correction" here, but what are you correcting?
The last thing Orthodox women in Eastern Europe need is for western men who converted yesterday to come in and stifle any progress they made by fighting for their place in the church for generations.
I'm just coming to Orthodoxy.... Saying a woman can be a deacon is unorthodox. Why would anybody coming into Orthodoxy want to change orthodoxy? As soon as you change Orthodoxy it's not orthodox
I have been born and raised in an Eastern Orthodox country, and received the Spirit (baptism) as a baby. Most Christian women here, as well as a good number of priests and theologians, are in favor of instituting not only the deaconess, but full-on female priesthood. There is nothing heterodox (or 'unorthodox') in affirming women's role as a shepherd, and not only has the deaconess been a big part of our tradition, but it is our proud Pneumatological heritage (that even the Catholics openly envy) that has instructed us to make changes when needed, and not follow the 'dead letter' like the Protestants do. If you want to learn about Eastern Orthodoxy, try looking into Pneumatology first, as that's the main and principal difference between our faith and western Christianity.
The last thing Orthodox women in Eastern Europe need is for western men who converted yesterday to come in and stifle any progress they made in fighting for their place in the church for generations.
This interview is one-sided and presents an extreme distortion of the movement for ordaining women deacons in the Orthodox Church. Mitchell's point that "the whole idea that [the advocates] are doing this for women comes out of sheer feminism . . . that they just want the rank, the authority, the honor" is wrong and demeaning. Ordained women deacons genuinely served the community in the past, and can do so again. For those who do not know the history, I recommend first reading "Women Deacons in the Orthodox Church" by Kyriaki FitzGerald. In this AF interview Mitchell misrepresents and omits a number of points on a new book by Carrie Frederick Frost, "Church of our Granddaughters" that advocates for women deacons in the last chapter. She is a cradle Orthodox, highly respected scholar, mother of five, grandmother of one, who cares deeply about women and the Orthodox Church's inclusion of them. She is not advocating for women deacons for the "rank, authority and honor." The Ancient Faith listeners deserve to be fully informed on women deacons. Is AF planning to interview a responsible advocate for this vital ministry? Marilyn Rouvelas, Greek Orthodox, Arlington, Virginia
I notice two words in your post. “Demeaning “ and “respected”. Actually you referred to a “highly respected “ woman whose book you recommend. You’re also claiming that this interview is one sided for suggesting women want honor whilst simultaneously reprimanding them for being “demeaning “ towards women..……in the same sentence. Which is it? Do we, as women, need to be honored or not?
When it comes to diakonia…service, the royal priesthood of the laity is called to acts of service… both men and women. I’d be more comfortable with women and men just voluntarily doing the necessary acts of service without a lot of attention, recognition, formality or “hierarchical rank”involved. just do it for the Lord. All lay members of the church can support and follow the leadership of the pastor and, when appropriate, ask his blessing. A lot of times even that doesn’t have to be very formal. Liturgically, I do see a need for deacons but male deacons cover that.
@@eyesee9715 I agree, there is a clear disdain for hierarchy all over the Scripture. Abolishing priesthood as a category as such and making everyone laymen is what God had in mind, everyone is a lay priest and no-one has authority in the Church. We have Christ, Theotokos, and the Martyrs. We need no bishops, no priests, no other hierarchy than that one.
There are important reasons why female Deacons can be advantageous to the Orthodox Church.
In Africa, female Deacons have been Catechists, often traveling to surrounding areas in support of Priests who likewise must travel from place to place for Liturgical duties.
In the United States where I am, Deaconess’s can be Chaplains, anoint the sick, council women who have experienced trauma at the hands of men. Women who are afraid to speak to any man.
At monasteries, female Nuns DO assist the Priest at vespers and can cense the the Church. I have
been there when this has been done.
I am frankly surprised at the small minded lack of knowledge and understanding of what a Deaconess can offer to a Parish!
Did you listen to this episode? Every single thing that you just wrote has been addressed. Anyone can show compassion to another human being, Any woman can (and should) council other women. Your obvious DISDAIN for common WOMEN is very off putting.
Btw…your boldness is remarkable. If you’re a God fearing , Christ following Orthodox individual then it’s quite bold of you to tell our Priests that they’re “lacking knowledge and understanding “ based on a video that you’ve clearly not even watched. If you’re not an Orthodox woman (which is more likely) then it’s bold of you to insult a people because they’re different than you.
Well said, especially with regard to abuse cases where a woman has fear of a man. The Pharisees didn’t want change either, but Jesus certainly brought it. Could this unreasonable desire for the way we always do things be one big elephant in the room idol where the church needs to repent? Christ advocates for servanthood, not lording over. There is much to learn.
@@Blaisesongs Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, born of the blessed Virgin Mother, was made manifest and walked among us as a Man. Male. Your hatred and disdain for half of humanity as well as our Lord is misplaced. Are you a Wiccan ?
@@cbasallie I t is an evil thing to call an Orthodox Christian that you do not know a ‘Wiccan’. May God have mercy on you for that.
I go to a Parish where we are encouraged to dialogue freely. Our Priest is loved and respected as he should be. He seeks our input because he takes care of the Spiritual and we take care of everything else.
Women, men and elderly are included in decision making and leadership.
Our children are trained to take care of our church alongside grownups. Cleaning, serving food, chanting, reading the Epistle.
What I got from the video was an opinion that there isn’t a need for female Deacons.
Actually there are Bishops who aren’t very supportive of male Deacons. They lack a vision for what a larger ‘army’ of Deacons could do to support Priests, Parishes and communities.