We were WRONG about Balance of Terror
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- ‼️ Watch our original reaction to Balance of Terror - • First Time Watching AL... ‼️
The Target Audience revisits Star Trek TOS to take a second look at Balance of Terror, the episode that caused on of their first controversial reactions!
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I'm so geeking out on TREK right now and part of that is because your reaction videos spurred me to go back and rewatch TOS and TNG, which I followed with DS9 and VOYAGER and am continuing with ENTERPRISE. I'm very much looking forward to your continued delve into TNG. Hope to join your patreon page sometime down the road, but for now, I'll say THANK YOU here.
Irony can be an effective literary tool. That's why, they had Spock save Styles' life. Also, it sort of gives Styles a comeuppance which is satisfying to the audience.
🥳
Now we are waiting for: “We were wrong about Assignment: Earth”
@@RLucas3000😂
Your experience with this episode shows how, once Star Trek was cancelled and placed into reruns, many people discovered that these Trek episodes are endlessly rewatchable. And that made the Trek franchise the monster that it became!
Well, that and slashfic. And the first sci-fi conventions.
Just remember we had over a decade rewatching these in reruns before The Motion Picture, let alone The Next Generation.
There was no comparable science fiction being made. Everything was bleak post apocalyptic.
This is what we used to call the "Golden Age" of Trek fandom.
Yes. The last ST:TOS episode aired on June 3, 1969. Only 48 days later, on July 21, Neil Armstrong became the first man to set foot on the moon... and the excitement of space travel went out of the country with a WHOOSH! It was like, "Now, why did we spend all that money?" and everything became grim and apocalyptic. Welcome to the 'seventies!
@@racookster huh?
@@IchigoKurosakicool It all became evil computers, people being recycled into "tasty" food and radioactive wastelands with truck-sized scorpions... 😐
the animated series is worth watching too
"Dad!?!? You stood against me joining Starfleet, and here you are a commanding officer for the Romulans, starting a war!?!?"
So THATS what you've been doing on all those "diplomatic missions".
Good one . . . .
I'm sorry son, but I'm just too good of an actor to only play one role!
TNG made me appreciate TOS all the more.
Isn't that great? I mostly experience that in music, only appreciating earlier albums after hearing the later, or the other way around...
In a good way or bad way?😉
TNG > TOS
I think TNG makes TOS look bad. TNG is what TOS should have been.
@@jovetj
I see them as representing different eras, both in reality and fictional. In reality that the expectations of mid 1960s television was different than later late 1980s television; and in fiction that mid 23rd century Starfleet was different than mid 24th century Starfleet. Products of their times. And I like them both in the context they were made in.
Remember, it is essentially a remake of the 50's movie "The Enemy Below", a boat vs submarine story, so much of the plot is already hardwired in.
.... And the characters are very similiar in attitude! Especially the Germans / Romulians!
That would be my only complaint about this one. It's TOO much of a remake for the movie. Trying to be a submarine in space.
Phaser shots have never been an area effect weapon. They have actual torpedos for that.
It explains why they shout down phaser fire commands from the bridge. Only episode to do this. @@tomyoung9049
@@tomyoung9049 "It's TOO much of a remake for the movie."
Sure, I can see that. But a lot of children and teens who saw this were completely unfamiliar with "The Enemy Below".
(TBH, I've never seen it, either. Although last year, I finally read and watched the book/movie, "Run Silent, Run Deep".)
It's also why the Romulans are whispering. In a submarine, loud voices can be picked up by sonar. But as we all know, in space, no one can hear you scream. Wait, wrong franchise.
What I always loved about Balance of Terror was how complex they made the Romulan commander, and through him Romulans in general.
7:47
It was actually an outpost, which makes it even more terrifying because he had nowhere to run to.
of course you know who that actor is? commander Hanson? John Mahoney Fraser Cranes Dad
No it wasn’t. Dudes name is Gerrit Wahlberg.
The guy from Quincy and other things with Jack Klugman? @@chrisadams8182
Mark Lenard is the only actor to play all of the major aliens. The Romulan commander, Spocks father and the Klingon commander in Star Trek the Motion Picture.
Well, in the TOS timeline.
@montylc2001 Yeah - Vaughn Armstrong and Jeffery Combs, just as 2 examples, have been in plenty of different makeups over the years
Do not forget the lovely hot Suzie Plakson.@@brodiesdad
“Don’t destroy the one named Kirk.”
Totally classic
And a total rip off of the pilot episode. LOL. Not McCoys lines but the whole conversation in general was lifted from the pilot.
"I didnt want them to battle..... for a ship blowing up"
i mean, imagine if they did things differently. Or had a different Captain commanding the Enterprise. We can only imagine what could have been done differently.
And that all gets explored in Strange New Worlds, swapping Pike in for Kirk
@@fredcasdensworld I do believe that was the point of the comment, but you're correct either way.
Yes, I was TRYING to be subtle! @@filthycasual8187
Thanks for revisiting this classic. My favorite scene is when they're in the strategizing room(?) and Stiles is presenting his case for attack while implying Spock isn't to be trusted... the camera shows Kirk's face, and he's just listening because that's what that room is for, speculation and opinion.. once Stiles is done, then Kirk gives him a quiet but in control "cool it" and Spock surprisingly agrees with Stile's recommendation... great stuff
Actually, what Kirk finally said to Stiles was, "Sit down, mister", which was a very military superior-type response, like something a present-day ranking military officer would say to a subordinant who was allowed to speak, but now it's time to shut up.
@@stevejoshua9536 right. Great moment
@@stevejoshua9536 Yep! That lieutenant was clearly out of line speaking to a superior officer in Spock the way he did.
It isn't that Spock flicking the switch and it made a sound gave them away.
Flicking that switch activated a sensor system, thus a detectable signal just came from the Enterprise.
In the Navy we referred to this as Emissions Control (EMCON). You switch off equipment that will radiate an electromagnetic signal from the ship, e.g. radar, radio, signal lamp.
Unlike most tv series, you are finding out that you enjoy it more on a rewatch. It always seems to be fresh.
Alex commented on something that is very key to being a fan of Star Trek: watching it on a television screen not a computer monitor or a tiny cellphone screen and then watching it again layer after some time has passed and then doing that again!
To be fair, I think my monitor is at least the size of the TV we had when I was a kid.
Small filmmaking point: that's not a zoom into Spock's reaction; it's the camera dollying in. A zoom just magnifies the image. A dolly changes the spatial relationship between the background and foreground as well. It's a very different feel.
It also requires someone skillful at "focus pull".
Combine the two, and you get the classic "Hitchcock Dolly Zoom" effect.
@@RedwoodTheElf My favorite example of this is in the movie Jaws.
Is that what they call a crash zoom?
With respect to the last scene, one of my favorites from STOS when it comes to character building for Kirk, I view this as bitter/sweet because you see the compassion Kirk has for his grieving crew member then he shifts to the more stoic, resolute Captain as he strides through the corridor. This is great acting and scene composition from a guy that gets a lot of grief for overacting. Very subtle but bada** nonetheless.
Thanks for revisiting this classic episode.
Shatner is actually a trained Shakespearean actor. His TV acting style is very close to that type of acting which calls for a bit of overdramatization. It's "stage acting" for a live audience.
Spock saving Stiles was another point of Spock not having emotions, or having them mastered. What Stiles said before didn't matter. He was still a life.
This episode is a top tiered TOS outing for so many reasons, with the things standing out the most from me are its impact on the rest of the franchise and its rich lore In universe.
From a storytelling perspective, this was peak TOS, and I dare say that the themes explored were timeless. The Romulans may have been the subject of the story, but it was really humanity that was under the microscope.
Thanks for revisiting “Balance of Terror,” guys! 👍🏾😎
The bride, Angela, was back in "Shore Leave."
That actress, Barbara Baldavin, was also in Turnabout Intruder but her character's name was not stated
Started watching re-runs of these classic Star Trek TV shows in the early 1970's when, I would come home from Middle School. This episode is in my top ten (10) to always re-watch. Now in my 60's as an African American with a B.S. degree in Electrical Engineering what, I missed as a kid watching this episode was Lt. Uhura opening up the communication console and doing detailed electronic repair work. This was at a time when Black Americans were starting to be seen as highly skilled trade persons and several owned local community radio and TV repair shops (smile...smile).
I remember "The Ultimate Computer", where Dr. Daystrom was not portrayed as a reedy-voiced, bespectacled Poindexter, but as a powerful, articulate black man - and nobody saw it as odd. I loved it.
@@johngardner4096 Yes, I agree 100 percent and made this same comment right after their first watch of the "Ultimate Computer" episode. In addition, I stated that with a 30-year career in STEM, I have seen African American and other minority inventors ideas stolen even, when they held a US patent on their design which, is just what happened during the life of Dr. Daystrom (smile...smile).
Uhura also takes over the navigation station after Stiles goes down to Phaser Control. Implying she is multi talented and has had extensive cross training.
I'm glad you're far enough in to appreciate this more. In the 60s it was dazzling.
You might re-watch "Errand of Mercy" in which the Klingons are introduced, as well as the Organians.
We expect your next reaction title to be "We were REALLY wrong about The Doomsday Machine"
I expect they'll like it better on repeat viewing, but I'm uncertain of whether it will click with them as much as "Balance of Terror" did. Not having a human(oid) foe to characterize and having important character conflicts going on at a distance rather than face to face (see what they said about "The Wrath of Khan") might make it harder for them to get into it. It is a fantastic episode though, so who knows?
Was Windom trying to copy the Cain Mutiny? When he started playing with the "tapes", that reminded me of the cain mutiny.
I like the fact that season 1 of TOS hasn't got the main characters down pat. It makes it interesting to see Shatner a bit more subdued and subtle, Nimoy still working out all the core elements of his character, etc. It just feels a bit more grounded to have the main actors not completely comfortable in their roles yet. Season 1 Shatner is playing a captain in front of his crew, with glimpses of Kirk's own personality underneath that mask he has to wear. Season 2 Kirk is that character who also happens to be the captain.
That's a wonderful insight into Kirk's character. I'd suggest that it shows Jim Kirk growing into his role, and becoming "Captain Kirk."
@@commandosolo1266 I actually hadn't thought of it like that, but you've made a great point. I had thought of it as the actors and writers reaching a point where their familiarity with the characters had sort of plateaued and their development was more in terms of different circumstances they faced, not who they essentially were. But your own take on this is definitely very valid.
Perhaps both are true, @@CaminoAir. Just as it is true that the episodic format prohibited character arcs, but one can find them nonetheless. I've maintained that Kirk's experience with Kodos the Executioner ("The Conscience of the King") transformed him into a cheating trickster who always "finds a third option" rather than trade lives. ("The Corbomite Maneuver," "Operation Annihilate!" the game of Fizzbin, and in SNW: "A Quality of Mercy.") This arc culminates with The Wrath of Khan. I'll let you decide if I'm seeing patterns in inkblots.
Also, Shatner's whatever the script requires, and that includes subdued subtlety. Have a look at him supporting Spencer Tracy in Judgment at Nuremberg, or quietly watching Yul Brenner and Lee J. Cobb devour the sets, the cables, and possibly a PA or two in The Brothers Karamazov. Don't let that man's broader turns fool you -- he's very good!
Basically, the way you actually grow into positions as an NCO or Officer. Another fictional depiction is Peck's BG Savage in12 O'clock High.
@@commandosolo1266 Yes, I agree with you about Kirk's past and how it shaped him (as per the episodes you quoted). And I've always thought Shatner was a very talented actor, just that he can tend to over-act at times and needs the guidance of a good director to bring out the very best in him. Plus, either subdued or larger than life, Shatner always had plenty of charisma.
I find you guys continually endearing, not that you guys necessarily mean to. I think others and I have mentioned this before, but your willingness to fully watch a tv series six decades old is not something everyone would be willing to do whether for content on CZcams or not.
And again here, you guys were willing to go back and give this another try and “admit” you guys weren’t as big on this on initial viewing.
And, of course, the heckler in me wanted to go full Nelson (c wut I did thar) and tease you guys about it, but more so I really appreciate that you guys went back at all.
I know there may be episodes I love that you guys may never come around on, but that’s never been the point. Always looking forward to more content from you guys, Trek or not (but preferably Trek 😄).
Watch the movie The Enemy Below, the inspiration for this episode. It's a very underrated WW2 submarine war movie. The cast was excellent, especially Curt Jurgens and Robert Mitchum.
That's some quality writing too. Even as a kid, the tension had me on the edge of my seat.
@Panzer4F2 It's definitely a great movie to watch. I like how the writers managed to humanize the battle of the two captains. It's a shame these guys haven't watched it yet. I think that it would change their feelings about the episode.
It wasn't a ship being attacked, it was one of the outposts built on an asteroid lining the neutral zone, outpost # 4. It was Stiles who said that there was probably a spy aboard, and Sulu seconded him. Excellent episode.
This has always been my all time favorite TOS episode - Enterprise focused rather than an off ship adventure. Glad you came around !
For the whispering: This episode was a call back to the submarine service. They were "Running quiet". So, they wrte trying to demonstrate that
Yeah if you're in a submarine going against another submarine, noise carries very easily so being quite keeps you undetected. But I don't think it makes as much sense in space where sound does not carry at all lol. They threw out the logic there so they could have their submarine scene. Unless there's a techno-babble explanation
@@WEB_78O I don't think you necessarily need a technobabble explanation. I've been hanging out with friends taking turns doing a stealth mission of a video game and whoever has the controller is suddenly talking a lot slower and quietly.
@@mmmmmduffbeer I mean, I know exactly what you're talking about.. but in this Spock accidentally makes a noise and it alerts the romulans. So they were literally playing it like sound carries as it would under water.. I think some kind of techno-babble explanation is our only hope in this case lol
@@WEB_78O It's been a while since I saw the episode and I'd forgotten about that.
So, um... Subspace carries sound?
@@mmmmmduffbeer yeah something like that 😄
I have to admit, when I began with you in your TOS journey, I became quite aggravated with you two, as it seemed like you were putting down everything, so I'm grateful that you are revisiting these episodes with a more open attitude(although I agree that Mark Leonard's death scene, like most 60's death scenes, was slightly ridiculous).
That look is a call-back to "The Outer Limits", which is where many of the people who worked on "Star Trek" came from.
A few also came from the tv show-The Lieutenant. Not a bad series either,several years ago I watched it on youtube,being ex-military I enjoy shows based on it.
For someone who grew up with the TOS, my favorite episodes came about from multiple watchings. It was on every day after school and you'd cycle through 3 seasons in 48 weeks. Then it would disappear and show up late at night or at 5pm or just on weekends. When there were only 3 channels, Star Trek was always a must-watch.
Loved the 2nd take guys! Been watching your reactions so long I forgot you didn't go as in depth in the beginning of TOS. I would love hear any new thoughts you guys have on Errand of Mercy.I also cant wait to see your second take of Doomsday machine. That thing terrified me when I was an infant. I hid behind my dads recliner when he was watching it!
A good point you guys touched upon is how Kirk is the spotlight character in this episode, more so than usual. Here we get to see what makes Kirk uniquely talented as a tactician. He decides that to let the Romulan ship return home would be the trigger for a wider conflict, which is counterintuitive to how we humans look at sparks for wider wars. But Kirk is well-read on his adversaries, and he rightly judged the Romulans as seeing weakness by the Federation as an invitation for invasion. This is a brilliant bit of character work by the script. 99/100 other Starfleet captains would have likely gone the other way, and it would have been disastrous.
I wouldn't say that many but yes not only for the era but Kirk had the not only the right mindset but the right people. In the conference room for Spock of all people to vote to attack in the lore is so counter to his as you think it's emotion but really it's logical. Spock now seeing that rumors are true Romulans are an offshoot of Vulcans but nowing when the originated in Vulcan brutal past. And telling Kirk with them they are violent and weakness is the one thing we can't show we must fight. And that's what tells Kirk whether a war is sparked we have to attack, it was the correct measured action. Many others wouldn't have done that truly only those that had been in real battle with odds would have done that and that's what makes it so great he pushed the envelope and it turned out to be the right call as nothing came of it. As someone once said, "sometimes when you do the right thing people aren't even sure you're doing anything at all"
The best thing about balance of terror is probably the universe building It does as far as the Romulans, the past earth war with the Romulans, the neutral zone, all that..
What I loved about BoT was Kirk at his best as a strategist, and their respect was mutual.
Don't forget about Mark Lenard as the first redesigned Klingon in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture".
Balance of Terror was the first reaction of yours I watched. I was a bit surprised you didn’t rate it very highly but you weren’t so offputting that I didn’t then go an watch every Trek reaction and hit subscribe 😂 glad you enjoyed this episode more the second time around.
The moment you pointed out that this mission was really dangerous, they were expendable and they were going to die, reminds me of a time when I told a friend of mine that they enlisted to die, and my friend laughed it out loud with a heartly laugh. But if you take the fact that aside of the Enterprise when it started its journey under Kirk's command other twelve Constitution-class starships started their own missions. Only the Enterprise returned, and you know for the series that for some of those other starship there were no survivors, in the long run we can say they lost 5,160 crewmembers from those twelve starships, plus those that ended up dead in different episodes of TOS series. That combined with the fact that most probably the Enterprise returned severely damaged, which would explain the intensive overhaul they made on it, there were only like three hundred survivors or so of those five-year missions, which encourage me to reaffirm that they know death is there behind any corner, and that made them specially heroic. Space must be very, very dangeous indeed.
For us who lived under the blade of the cold war, not knowing who the Romulans were and then discovering they looked familiar and relatable (even if they were on the other side of "the curtain", was thought provoking and sort of a shock. It is difficult to communicate just how pervasive the Western European/North American block vs the USSR block tensions and struggles were a part of our daily consciousness. The people behind the iron curtain were a mystery to us. And this episode touched on that.
The two global powers were in a never ending chess match. Every encounter or exchange seemed existential. Each side applying their own version of the Domino Theory.
That is why the original series touched on it in so many ways. This episode is just one example. The crew itself was a constant reminder. Having a Russian and a Japanese on the crew was avante guard. The Klingons and Federation arming both sides of other civilizations was also a commentary on the cold war.
Such a geeky comment of mine. When the Romulan officer sent out a coded message. He received immediate reprimand but instead of killing him (klingon reponse) or putting him I the brig (human response) they took his rank away - romulan society is all about status and to have been demoted would be a huge humiliation.
The Romulans are obviously modeled on the Romans and that's the way they were. Romulan = Romulus and Remus the mythical founders of Rome.
@@jvburnesThat's why their people of rank are called "Centurion", or "Praetor". Those are titles straight out of ancient Rome.
I love the TOS bridge sounds! I used to leave my DVDs on the menu just for the ambiance. Nowadays you can find 10+ Hours worth on CZcams.
I don't think Kirk was defending Spock so much as making clear there is no prejudice of any kind on the bridge. What made that situation really complex was the twist in the conference room where Spock AGREES with Styles that they should destroy the Romulan vessel without mercy
I REALLY liked the wedding scene with all those extras,it made the episode more relatable to me and the crew too. There are normal things that go on aboard ship. And seeing other crew members besides the bridge team is always a plus. This episode is one of my favorites. Live Long and Prosper
Yes, the theme music makes me happy. Time to check out and watch some fun classic SiFi TV. This episode reminds me of a lot of classic WWII submarine suspense plots. Cat and mouse with a destroyer on the surface. Someone always drops a wrench to spoil the silence.
Glad you guys came around on this episode, there's great character work in this one. Fun Fact, this was the first episode they remastered with the CGI effects, what's your opinion on which is the better version? Was it easier to understand what was going on with the space battle with the CGI or were you able to get the gist of it with the original effects? Also funny that Romulans were whispering, because this episode was written like a Submarine battle & you can detect voices of submarine crews through water (gotta watch Das Boot somtime, great series turned into a movie), but if course it's impossible for sound to be heard in space
I don’t think the effects had a big effect on this episode either way, but we have yet to see an example where we prefer the remaster to the original effects
@sdfried4877 Doomsday Machine is split for me, I enjoyed the the choreography of the Space battle more in the CGI version & liked the little details they added like Decker's shuttle rapidly taking off, but I I thought the original practical model for the Space Cone looked so much better than the remaster, where it just looked like a cheap cg asset
@@targetaudience, I think the remastered effects really work well for episode, "The Doomsday Machine". The original effects are cheesy, at best.
@sdfried4877 don't forget the close-up rear angel shot of the "off the shelf" toy Enterprise model they used for the Constellation
"Well, Stiles, I won your respect and all I had to do was save your life. Now if every Vulcan could just do the same, you'd be set."
I always saw this as being more of a reveal of Spock's character.
Spock doesn't care if a crewman hates his guts. Regardless of his personal feelings, if a crewman is in danger, he'll do his duty and do whatever he can to help. Because he doesn't nurse grudges.
Like on John Waters and Homer Simpsons!
Glad you guys gave it another look! Out of your entire TOS reaction, the one to this episode was the most surprising to me. Also - the really cool and important point about this episode being early: if you were an audience at that time, it really would have been an ACTUAL POSSIBILITY that Spock was a Romulan spy and a traitor. Did he hit that signal button on purpose? Of course, now, it's impossible to entertain, but not early in the series.
Balance of Terror is one of my faves, and was the clear inspiration of WoK's battle in the Mutara Nebula. Also, the actor who played Stonn in "Amok Time" is a Romulan here.
Well, there's hope for you gentlemen yet. Now, go back and rewatch "A Private Little War". ;)
If you have someone watch Mark Lenard's appearances, don't forget his brief role as the Klingon captain in the opening of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
That scene and music was so damn cool.
For another thing of the Cold War genre I highly recommend _'The Bedford Incident.'_
It is a 1965 British-American Cold War film directed by James B. Harris, starring Richard Widmark and Sidney Poitier, and produced by Harris and Widmark.
We've all seen these episodes a hundred times or more by now. All through elementary and middle school I watched Star Trek every afternoon. Scooby Doo, Gilligan's Island, Star Trek was my after school routine. We've seen how Spock acts in "All Our Yesterdays" before Surak brought the teachings of logic to Vulcans. Lots of us have read the 1988 novel "Spock's World" that shows how Vulcans were before Surak and how those who refused the path of logic left to become Romulans.
The original drafts for this episode goes into the espionage aspect in a deeper way. The reason the Romulan ship looks so much like the Enterprise in some ways is because it was supposed to be the result of a stolen design, which further drives the crew's paranoia even more because they can literally see with their own eyes what the viewscreen is showing them: the Romulans were stealing technology!
The James Blish novelization was based on these older drafts of the script, and he added in a more realistic POV by keeping it to only the Enterprise crew's perspective, except when they lock on the Bird of Prey's bridge and then at the end when they communicate with the Romulan commander. A very different feel and while more realistic, it leaves out a lot of great character and lore building moments that seeing the Romulan's POV gives us.
The Romulan that got demoted was the same actor that played the Vulcan Staun in
Amok time
"Side characters who are never going to be seen again" - actually Angela (Barbara Baldavin) is in Shore Leave. The actress was also the communications officer in the series finale Turmabout Intruder.
Just came here to mention that! Ya beat me to it!
@@AwakeningComics Sorry!!!!!!!!
One thing you have to remember about Balance of Terror is that it aired in 1966 only a four years after the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962. It was the year Brezhnev became general secretary. This is very much a Cold War story.
You are now starting to enter the realm of the early fandom watching reruns in syndication. With each re-viewing you are happy to see what you liked before, and then start to take more notice of things you may have missed, and gain more appreciation. And you can start to really identify favorite episodes, because they can reproduce some of the feelings of those early viewings every time you watch it again. Maybe a lot of nostalgia, but that's ok. :)
Man I would love for you guys to watch people break down the battle for all the extra little things there were😊
As fun as reactions by first timers are to see, the fact is - you will enjoy the show a lot more if you take it in completely, and by that I mean watching and listening without any discussion - just letting Star Trek work its magic. If you do that, I promise, you will grow to love this show even more EACH and EVERY time you watch it. I've been watching it since the 1970's, and I STILL love to watch it. It holds up amazingly well, even FIFTY-EIGHT years after its initial broadcast. Many shows have high re-watchability factors, but Star Trek TOS has the most by far!
Cool, I'm glad to see you revisit TOS
You boys are on the right track. I was once like you, and took quite some time to properly appreciate “Balance of Terror”. It’s now easily a pick for my Top Ten Episodes list.
“The Doomsday Machine” is also a Top Ten episode, because it has a perfect balance of action and character drama/conflict.
Same with THE WRATH OF KHAN. A perfect balance of action and character moments. And, yes, it’s a better, more realistic, and more interesting choice to NOT have Kirk and Khan meet face-to-face. The long- distance chess game between them is more compelling than a fistfight would have been. And, thematically, Kirk grappling with old age is the glue which holds the movie together and gives it emotional weight.
I, too, think THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK is underrated. Love that film, but it’s not as good as TWOK. It exists solely to hit the reset button on the plot developments of TWOK, but it does it in a very entertaining way. TWOK is a more adult and more layered film. But TSFS also has some of the best moments in the entire franchise.
That being said, there’s a reason TWOK is the best STAR TREK film ever made. It paid off all those years of history between the characters, and presented a reflective, postmodern take on Kirk which was thoughtful and respectful, unlike all of the “subverting expectations”, deconstructionist nonsense we now get in modern films.
The whole episode is basically an allegory for a World War II pacific submarine battle, and Romulans are basically the Japanese.
Isn’t it crazy to think that when this episode aired, WW2 had only been a little over 20 years earlier? I watched mostly in the late 70’s, 80’s and that was still only 40 some odd years. Like watching TNG is for us now. Time flies!
@@VulcanDeathGrip44 well, the Star Trek writers had experience writing westerns and WWII movies. So they write what they knew.
When you talk about the TOS vs TNG bridge around 7:20, I always thought that was one of the most interesting thematic differences between the two. The TOS bridge looks like the bridge of a real warship today, small and cramped and held together with spirit - the hard edge of the frontier. The TNG bridge says "we have come a long way and now we have the luxury of peace, this is humanity's peak" and then that gets challenged by Q and other threats. TNG is now over 30 years old and I still have yet to see anything in any later sci-fi that looks "more arrogantly advanced" than the TNG bridge - all the dark rooms with flashing lights and holograms they love now just look silly by comparison.
Kirk walking through the corridor at the end like a boss!
I never had a problem with Balance Of Terror and I still don't. It was always a great episode IMO.
Balance of Terror is Akin to Submarine Warfare... They based this episode on a Robert Mitchim/Kurt Jurgens ww2 movie - The Enemy Below
I envy anyone who is binge-watching "Star Trek: The Original Series" for the very first time!
The episodes get better on a re-watch. Maybe that's why it didn't do so well in its first run but was super successful in re-runs. This was one of my favorites. Much like an old WW2 movie, Run Silent Run Deep or The Enemy Below.
Love the viewscreen effect!
One of the more interesting aspects of this episode, I thought was the fact that the Romulan commander despite his training and high dicipline was sufferring from a kind of PTSD, or mental exhaustion. There are many instances that demonstrates this, and it is this exhaustion that ultimately saves the Enterprise from being destroyed twice in this episode. I will explain.
The most telling, is the initial conversation after the outpost is destroyed by the Romulans. The romulan commander is having a conversation with the older romulan officer, where he questions the merits of war and the loss of so many of their friends in other campaigns. he ultimately the conversation with words "Centurion....I find myself wishing for destruction before we can return home". Then he reasures his old friend not to worry, that he was too well trained and diciplined to allow it.
Throughout the remainder of the episode he tries his best to do his duty as he knows it to be, however the death of his closest friend and confident sparked his spiral down towards oblivion.
Twice he had oppurtunity to succeed. The nuke disabled the Enterprise, and as the young centurian pointed out "They are at our mercy, I remind you of your duty". Mark Lenard walks away without a word, as you can see the inner conflict with himself, his training saying to him to finnish off the enterprise while it was helpless, and at the same time, knowing if he did so he would have to come back into another war, which he couldn't handle mentally.
The second oppurtunity was at the end of the episode, when the phaser coolant leaked, and there was a long delay in firing the ships weapons at the romulan, this was the oppurtunity for the romulan to fire on the enterprise, it did'nt, and the result was the destruction, of the romulan ship.
Strategy, tactics, the will of two ship captains, trying to get the upper hand over the other and underlying all of that, the pshycology of all the people involved made this one of my favourite episodes. IMO ( sorry for writing this long comment, I felt it needed to be said).
One more note- in light of your rewatch of this episode, you should give MASTER AND COMMANDER: THE FAR SIDE OF THE WORLD a reaction video. So many Trek elements are on display in that movie, and the hunter/prey aspects are particularly strong.
I had nothing against the scene where Spock saves Styles. MY big problem scene is when Kirk embraces Janice Rand when it looks like they are about to die. In the book, ‘The World of Star Trek,” there is a memo from Gene Roddenberry where he quizzes the writers by asking what is wrong with this scene? And he poses a scene where a ship is under attack, and “the Captain hugs his pretty yeoman.” Roddenberry then states that a naval captain would NEVER do that during combat, and OUR show is realistic and OUR Captain wouldn’t do something that unrealistic either…. and then what does Kirk do in “Balance of Terror?” LOL….
I think the absolute genius of TOS is its ability to be standalone screenplays. For a while, there was a theater troop in Portland Oregon that did a different episode of TOS every summer and it’s incredible how it holds up to outdoor theater.
I like to think when we get the reveal of what the Romulans looked like, it wasn't just that the Romulans looked exactly liked the Vulcans but, at least with Spock, that by sheer coincidence that Romulan Commander looked exactly like his father! That is what caused Spock lips to part slightly and his right eyebrow to go up! His "Oh sh*t!" reaction!😊
Of course just before his actual farther, Ambassador Sarek, came aboard the Enterprise he explained to Kirk, McCoy, etc. who his dad looked liked, which is why no one reacted.😊
Speaking of Mark Lenard, He played the character Aaron stemple on here come the brides. And there is a good Star Trek novel that is a crossover between here Come the brides and Star Trek, call me Ishmael. Spock ends up being transported back in time to the late 1800s by a romulan time machine, and he interacts with Aaron stemple. Spock has memory loss and Aaron calls him. Ishmael. There's even a reference to Spock's mother and her ancestry from the Seattle area. From that point in time. You should check that book out. It's very interesting.
Being new to Trek, you had no idea which episodes would feature an alien of the week vs an episode like Balance of Terror which was foundational for establishing the Romulans, villains that will be part of Star Trek stories up until today almost 60 years later. For us long time viewers, this wasn’t just a good episode it was also important for establishing, as Alex likes to say, “The lore!”
Mark Leonard: Romulan, Vulcan, Klingon,....excellent. 😎
For those going "huh?" Mr. Leonard is the captain of the Imperial Klingon cruiser Amar in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
This was my favorite episode when I was a kid. It isn't my favorite now, but I still really like it. It's basically a remake of a World War II movie called, "the Enemy Below" about a battle between a U.S. destroyer and a German U-boat.
Now you should rewatch Firefly and you can notice how awesome River is.😂
Even though I’ve been a lifelong Star Trek fan and have watched the episodes repeatedly for over 50yrs, I too thought Balance of Terror was overrated, but I also appreciated it a little more on my most recent viewing, To me the most underrated episode that you will rarely see on any top10 list is By Any Other Name, I find it to be an extremely entertaining and well done episode in many ways.
I am definitely looking forward to The Doomsday Machine video!
I would love to see you do one on The Changeling, because this time you can compare it to The Motion Picture which borrowed so much from the story.
I am waiting for ‘we were wrong’ to become a weekly segment
Great review. This one is definitely one of my favorite Star Trek episodes.
I find it interesting how, after watching the whole series and now some Next Generation, you’ve changed your mind about things. Here is my thought why. The original Star Trek changed Everything. It tackled subjects that just were Not dealt with on TV. And, as Rodenberry often said “got away with it because it was disguised as SciFi”. It legitimized sci-fi as a serious and popular genre. And it did it First. Everything afterwards was affected by it. I think you guys now are starting to realize this. You’ve seen the aftermath in everything you’ve grown up watching without realizing where it all came from. I know I may be overstating the original, but I grew up in the 70s watching Trek, before Anything else like it existed.
A black n white movie using lighting to its most is ' Citizen Kane'. A top rated movie by genius Orson Welles.
Another episode to visit ' Immunity Syndrome'. The crew grappling for answers in the dark , and the best special effects episode.
Food for thought: Star Trek was produced at the time Vietnam was starting to heat up. Perhaps the overall message of the show is that there is a real price to be paid when resorting to armed conflict. The Romulan commander discusses it with his Centurion...
Centurion: "If we are the strong, is this not the signal for war?"
Commander: "Must it always be so? How many comrades have we lost in that manner?"
Centurion: "Our portion, Commander.... is obedience."
Commander: "Obedience, duty, death and more death.... soon, even enough for the Preator's taste..."
and then, the final sequence where we see the bride in tears at the Chapel.
"...we see young men, our own age, in coffins.... mothers in tears for their sons.... sweehearts and wives, alone with their memories... and Golden Ribbons... the fortunes of war." - Golden Ribbons, Loggins and Messina 1970.
That wasn't another ship. The romulans attacked out posts lining the Neutral Zone. They intentionally allowed one outpost to send a distress signal. Before finishing it off. Then they attacked one final outpost before the Enterprise could get into range. This was to draw in a Federation Starship to test their ability against the new Bird of Prey.
Styles didn't just lose one ancestor to the Romulans, he lost at least FIVE: a Captain, two Commanders, and “several” junior officers. The Romulan War was BRUTAL. Think Earth-Mindbari War levels of brutality, only in ST, the Federation outright won its Battle of the Line. Styles' attitude is at least more understandable in that context. Think about how many WW II vets who served in the Pacific felt about Japanese, esp vets that fought them on the ground, or wose, were POWs in their camps.
Also, I don't know if you knew this, but Grace Whitney was supposed to be a permanent part of the supporting cast, but she HAD to leave after being assaulted at least twice by members of the prodution team.
Earth Minbari war was a curb stomp, I don't think there is a parallel. Also I doubt these guys have seen B5.
@@wyrmshadow4374 From all available evidence, it was. It even reached all the way to Sector OO1. That's canon.
I do get and agree with levels of brutality but if I remember the Eartn-Manbari war was very one sided as Earth couldn't compete with them and even Centari tried to warn them to not pick that fight as it might mean certain doom.
Jingle? Jingle!?! Sir, it is a Herald! An opening salvo, if you will. Please, respect the notes. Commercials have jingles. Eesh! (P.S., love you guys!)
A leitmotif, as it were.
Pay attention guys the "ship" that was attacked in the beginning was NOT a ship, it was a base on an asteroid -- essentially a listening post monitoring the neutral zone. Again this is like the bases on the Alaleutian islands islands that monitored Soviet activity.
Speaking of Twilight Zone - Shatner in Nightmare at 20,000 Feet and Nick of Time,. Nimoy on the other hand has a recurring role (6 episodes) in Sea Hunt with Lloyd Bridges (Airplane, father of Beau & Jeff).
Bridges was aldo Captain Cain of the Pegasus in the 1980s Battlestar Galactica you watched.
@@sdfried4877 Thanks,! Flipped the switch that reminded me Bridges was also in Galactica.
You gain much wisdom with experience, my sons, your tastes have matured. Congratulations on achieving this insight ... but the journey never ends!
Sulu's line about there possibly being a Romulan spy aboard was actually a remnant from an earlier draft of the script. The Romulan ship was originally supposed to resemble the Enterprise, and Commander Hansen had a line that the Romulans had stolen Earth's ship designs. Sulu's line about spies was a reaction to that. Without that stuff, it doesn't really make sense.
Mark Lenard also appeared on Here Comes The Brides as the owner of a lumber yard. David Soul (The Apple) and Robert Brown (Alternative Factor) played brothers. 22:57
After your having forgotten about the ambient bridge noise from TOS, I feel like you guys have completely missed that TNG has ambient bridge(and ship) noise as well. It's different, but it is ever present.
Now, if we can just get you to recant your opinions on Wrath of Khan and the Fifth Element and reconsider watching Star Trek Continues...
Has anyone mentioned (or have you or did you; I'm ten minutes into this one and haven't heard you say it yet) that this episode was basically a STAR TREK version of a classic World War II submarine battle movie, THE ENEMY BELOW?
I'd love to see you guys do a reaction to THAT, noting similarities.
As I typed below in a reply to someone else, if ever a writer of a Star Trek episode could be accused of "subconscious plagiarism," it's Paul Schneider, who wrote BALANCE OF TERROR. Of course, the TREK spin on the story makes it different, but even so, as director Vince McEveety said, "obviously it's the same story." He didn't realize the similarities until much later.
Yeah people commented that on our reaction. Haven’t seen it.
@@targetaudience Yeah, it's totally the same story. I was so excited as an eight year old, thinking, "Oh, wow! Now I get to see this happen IN SPACE!!"
I thought Gene R. encouraged an " enemy below" style script to be written.
Well, he WAS the producer and actively involved in most aspects of the first season, right?
Good call, gentlemen. Glad you're big enough to do this. Perhaps you will consider rewatching PLATO'S STEPCHILDREN and WRATH OF KHAN.
WOK needs more time to breathe before revisiting. IIRC we enjoyed Plato’s Stepchildren for the most part
by far one of the best episodes of the original series...
The best line in this episode (besides the ones they've already mentioned) is after they are attacked, Mark Lenered says (I'm going by memory here) "This earth captain, he is a sorcerer, he reads my very thoughts", as Kirk seems to anticipate and counter his moves. Unfortunately, the last time they remastered it with the new effects, some of these scenes were cut to make room for them and more ad's, as in the 60's the FCC limited ad's to 5 minutes per hour, whereas today they are up to 20.
Also, have you ever considered rewatching the episodes with the original effects to see how they compare to the CGI remastering?
One of the things people really miss about TOS is the quality of the production. You mentioned the lighting which creates the excellent, serious tension. Also check out the staging and camera movement. Especially check out the dramatic framing in the final scene. The women who lost her fiance is in the foreground and Kirk dramatically in the background of the frame acting almost like a guardian angel come to console her. Just excellent, especially with Kirk looking at the altar after she leaves like asking god "You better make good one what I just said" or perhaps his doubt in the almighty. These directors and cinematographers really knew what they were doing as opposed to most of TNG which looked like it was shot on the set of a soap opera with people on the bridge filmed in their living room.