Exploring Deltarune's Creepy Snowgrave Route (Deltarune Chapter 2 Secrets)
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- čas přidán 23. 09. 2021
- Deltarune Chapter 2 has many creepy secrets and easter eggs to uncover, but perhaps the spookiest of all these hidden horror moments can be found while experiencing the games evil path. This has been dubbed the 'Snowgrave route' and sees Kris leading Noelle astray with sinister consequences. In this video we look into how to unlock the Snowgrave path and the unsettling changes it makes to the story of Deltarune Chapter 2 thereafter. So sit back, relax and let's explore the darkside of Deltarune.
Check out Deltarune here: store.steampowered.com/app/16...
You've been watching SuperHorrorBro Mike and this was a look at the Snowgrave route in Deltarune Explained. If you enjoyed this video remember to like, comment and subscribe for more horror related content.
Music by Kevin MacLeod: incompetech.com/ - Hry
Fun Fact:
If you unequip Noelle’s watch and have Kris equip it, Noelle would notice it during the Hospital scene but instead of trying to convince herself that it is a dream, she horrifyingly asks why do you have her watch.
Susie would always cut you off before you tell Noelle that it wasn't a dream, but having the Watch definitely force that proof onto her..
Wow! I didn’t not know that
Uh oh
(i haven’t gotten all the way through the video so i dont know if this is mentioned, but anyways) if you hold right arrow (or maybe just hit it?) she gets freaked out that you’re approaching her
@@HDDStrider wow
little did u know that in the hospital dialogue if u dont chosse any option and try to move Noelle will have another dialogue.
noelle in snowgrave: *doesnt know what shes doing*
noelle in pacifist: *chokes berdly*
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
What else was she supposed to do?
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
@@LogShaw1587 I chocked reading this comment-
@@inavela1267 chocked
Remember that Noelle likes scary things, like horror movies and Susie. But she thought your voice was terrifying.
you then know that you are an really bad boy
@@seashellguy9416 don't phrase it like that
@@rubub8455 well,then what
i cant describe it with words
@@seashellguy9416 just say evil or scary
@@rubub8455 tyrantic
You forgot that in this route when you reunite with Rasiel and Susie they mention Kris looks shaken, implying even the creepy kid who may be trying to bring the end of the world was terrified of what the player has just done.
Kris does have some agency when the player is in control imo anything you aren't controlling is what kris can control
My boi got traumatized.
Ralsei❎
Rasiel✅
I also think it's the player.
@@fadedagony he rips his heart out of his body, im sure he doesnt mind
Deltaruin: Your choices don’t matter. You can’t play a genocide route.
The player: Fine then. I’ll make Noelle do it!
LMAOOO
Deltarune*
@@A_RandmPerson Well the player has DeltaRuined this game
@@boid9761 he had deltaruined this comment
@@GooserMan indeed
Something that always gave me chills about this route was that when you see Susie and Ralesi icons it says “*Kris* called for help.” But when you get to Noelle’s it says “*You* whispered Noelle’s name.”
Just a big reminder that this route wasn’t Kris’ fault, it’s ours. The player. We use Kris to interact with this world. We push Noelle to do all of these horrible things. We killed Berdly. We caused this route and these characters have to pay the price
it's more like Kris is freeing themself from influence in a weird run than opposite. And this "you" instead of Kris more indicates that Kris begins to perceive themself as themself, not as someone on whom they has no influence. From the influence of the story that Gaster created, and which is obliged to move only in one direction, in which no one really has real freedom.
We did make the choices to change Noelle, but she techincally killed bird boy by trying to prove the player or Kris that she did not know Snowgrave, which is interesting as she lost control.
Yeah I feel like horror made it seem as if this was all Kris’s doing
Considering "you" is used in reference to Kris throughout the entire game up until that point, I'd say the reason why the game said "Kris" at that moment was to show that it was the red-eyed entity/Knight that was calling for Noelle.
@@ItsB1998 like yea in most of the game is used in the sense *you* (the player) is making those choices, Like there’s a lot of evidence to back up that *Kris* is the knight, apart from how obvious this chapter is to making the player and Kris separate yet connected in a way, like puppeteer and puppet basically!
I just think what we call the player is called “the angel” in universe as seen here 9:55
Some thing I haven't seen in the comments, but think is important. What Noelle says before she cast snowgrave: "You wanna see what happens so bad?" That's the same motivation the player is presumed to have in Undertale's Genocide run
i just want chara to say i am *insert funny name here*
Yes the theme of "You are so evil for killing everyone just because you wanna know what happens" is pretty prominent throughout undertale
@@kirboli agree
Name Chara “stupid” or “ugly” for max comedy
@@kirboli
How bout “chocolate”
One of the most disturbing things I’ve seen in a game was berdly with his head laying on the table. Take a bow Toby Fox
I agree honestly,
I never thought seeing a blue bird with glasses laying his head down on a table would make me feel so sick inside but here we are
would seem innocent when you dont know the context
While it's probably the most ethically sickening thing, I still think giant fetus chasing a mushroom man wins out on the disturbing factor for me, personally.
@@ForestskiesOfficial what?
"Snowgrave" route is way more darker than the Genocide route of Undertale. Your manipulating your childhood friend to straight up murder people, and caim that it's to get stronger. Later we see the afterwards effects this experience has left for Noelle. Poor girl just can't catch a break.
I would not say it is darker but more realistic. People are put put off by a person manipulating their friend to do horrible things. You only murdered Birdley in this route where genocide an entire species in the other. It’s like Spamton can Jevil their both insane but I find Spamton more unnerving because he felt more out of it.
The music makes it worse too. Its like a reflection of her current state of mind. The player(in that route) literally has corrupted a perfectly innocent person.
@Marcell Csuka it fine but really there's no difference between those words.
its basically called the Stolkholm syndrome route
It's not worse than Genocide route, where you kill everyone and erase the world, then get killed yourself
Let me remind everyone:
This isn’t Kris doing this, YOU are controlling Kris, therefore YOU are doing the route. Kris is even disturbed by YOUR actions.
Same thing did happened in Undertale, Frisk and Chara does not have commands under The Player.
in Deltarune, if You're play as the souls controlled Kris and Kris forcing Noelle turned blood murder Berdly with Snowgrave during Snowgrave route.
We are making new puppets for our future plans, then the next step is finding a less free willed vessel for the soul.
souless kris might actually be the good guy, maybe hes creating the fountains trying to find a way to get rid of your influence on him. maybe he can only last without a soul for so long which is why he puts it back in after a time for now
@@brandonwithnell612 maybe ralsei is trying to keep kris from taking control, he does act very suspicious
@@brandonwithnell612 more like the soulless Kris is directly controlled by Gaster and created the fountain because of them.
Everyone:makes Noelle kill Berdley.
Also everyone: “how could kris do this”
Funny thing is that the game is telling us that WE (the player) are the ones telling her to do stuff like that. She says that she hears a voice similar to Kris but it's not his. And at the end of the Neo fight, there is a small detail we ignore as just text that explains the action like always but it's different. When we use the call option it says Kris called Ralsie/Susie. But when we select Noelle it says, You whispered Noelle's name. You the player have whispered Noelle's name.
@@kingkiler2k yup, that’s my point. People are blaming kris, when in fact it’s their fault.
I don’t know if this sounds profound or stupid, but here goes a new quote that I made:
“A wise person will not believe a murderer who tries to pin the blame on their murder weapon, for the murderer is the one who made the decision.”
We are the murderer. Kris and Noelle are either accomplices or murder weapons, but not the ones who should be persecuted.
@@steveishere8808 YES
@@steveishere8808 I find it to be a valid way of putting things aye. My old service gun wasn't the one who did the damage, but me who pulled the trigger - people overlook that fact, so... Glad someone actually brought it to light (as obvious as it should be, some goes to great lengths... Just to sugar-coat a situation to mitigate or switch blame from themselves... Over to somethin' entirely different.).
Another detail, when you go to the door in the computer lab it says “A large person could easily fit inside” and when you leave the room it fades to black and says something like “you gathered your things and left”
The dark part is I think that it’s implying Kris put Berdly’s corpse in there…
and then if you go to the kingdom type world and save it says in red “you think how you can never go back”
@@cl0ud34 no, that happens anyway
@@anko_dtm I know but it's still a touch that varies on personal meaning depending on your route
Ok, THAT is creepy.
@@anko_dtm No in Pacifist it's "There is no reason to go back"
This is literally a creepypasta integrated into a game as canon.
I like the way you think
but where’s the pasta??
@@navachoudhury5972 Potassium.
This ain't a creepypasta.
This a creepypotassium
I mean Toby already did that with flowey in undertale.
Fun fact: "snowgrave" also works as an anagram for "wrong save". Probably just a coincidence, but I like anagrams.
oh damn, guess i chose the wrong save
So does Toby Fox, it seems!
seriAl murDerer
murDerer goreAs
Whambu is who I learned that from
Saved the wrong one...
@@Ramsey276one don't Forget that deltarUne is also an Anagram
@@redwolves1906 I am fully aware
XD
I won’t lie. I’m tempted to do this run just to avoid the car puzzles.
Same lol.
Fr
Honestly
Yeah me too
@@James4044-5 what
Fun fact: on the city (snowgrave) menwhile you are icing monsters, Lancer is sleeping on your pockets and it says "(Innocent boys are fast asleep)".
Lancer is watching you
And when you access Queen"s Mansion is Snowgrave Lancer is stoned in your pocket
@@some_other_time6239 should’ve probably worded that better
@@weirdcakes304 Iceshock the sheriff--
@@some_other_time6239 lancer smoking a fat blunt
This is just...Dear god, it's so fucked up. I genuinely feel dirty after seeing this. This is just such a twisted yet realistic take on manipulation, and it just...It fucks me up seeing it in something like this.
wh
what about
"deer" god
See, the thing is that’s the *point*. This entire run makes you feel evil, but not in the same way that undertale’s does. Its meant to make you, the player, manipulate the characters, including Kris. Toby’s just great at making games.
@@Bitzkyl both games have a enemy player but deltarune goes a step farther it makes a character make ANOTHER character into a murderer effiectivly corrupting and ruining two innocent lives turning them into love and hate driven monsters with higher stats that make them "more fun to play" for the "player" or us which would be the reason to do this run
@@Bitzkyl exactly! Idk what he means by “ it’s f’d up seeing it in something like this”
I feel disgusting. Good Job toby fox... doesn't change the fact that I now want to take an hour long shower....
Kris calls out for Susie and Ralsei.
"You" whisper Noelle's name.
Kris seemed to fight calling Noelle, fighting the Player + the other possessing them, but calling for their friends for help.
I think Kris really does care for all of them, but as the chapters pass, they aren't able to fight the possession like they used to.
Yep, when you meet up with Susie and Ralsie in this route, Ralsie will comment that Kris looks "hurt"
@@AfroTokyo. this is just because they inevitably has to endure more hits and damage along this run.
@@AfroTokyo. and yes, I don't think that all the emotions that Kris experiences are exclusively positive. Even though it is their desire to start this run, which is what Spamton says when he mentions that if Kris freezes everyone, it will bring them closer to liberation.
@@freedom-verity i thought kris desire was to break control of the player so they can create dark fountains. I never recalled spamton saying this was their desire to cause snowgrave.
@@wolfenden9805 i believe that kris is creating the fountains due to being a troubled kid. they lost many things and when susie mentioned the dark world becoming reality, this intrigued them because the dark world is an escape for kris in a way
I love how Toby eludes to this path in other characters dialogue.
For example, when the queen goes on about how powerful Noelle is throughout the normal path, she just needs to be awakened, or something along those lines.
LET IT GOOO, LET IT GOOO, DONT HOLD IT BACK ANYMOREEEE
@@starpeep5769*proceed*
"A soft cream is following you! Can we make them a bad guy?"
-lancer
@@tbhandrew5857 oh no lancer
Wait a minute, lancer didn't saw any thing of snowgrave?
@@allhui5828 when you check the key items ''innocent boys are fast asleep''
i forgot the original text for this comment because i edited it
yep totally going to regret it
@@xyihhz4262 yep i want to do it but i dont want cute characters sad
No regret FOR *ME.*
@@Concerned_Custodian wait WHA-
@@Concerned_Custodian i mean, every person has their own likes i guess.
Normal route Berdly: I am the best of the best
Snowgrave route Berdly(before death): Noelle, are you okay?
In Snowgrave, Berdly is actually serious.
And there's also the fact that his attacks became more difficult and deadly. He really did not fool around with the situation
Berdly is a shitposter, but when it comes down to the wire in the snowgrave path, he doesnt mess around anymore
Because in that part, he did noticed that something is very wrong with her, and as a good friend he tried to protect her, but failed in the end.
It shows that no matter how much of a pretentious nitwit he is, Berdly isn't a bad person.
The rarest of the rarest
I really adore that fact that unlike undertale where we can somewhat blame the actions on chara or frisk, in deltarune it places emphasis on how all of this is your fault.
Nah man, in Undertale the player is to blame for every kill, I don't think even Chara is one bit guilty.
@@un_id5775 a lot of people project it onto them however.
I’m conflicted on that in this story though, since we were randomly thrust into Kris, AND the Knight version of Kris seems to be out to destroy the world. Not to mention even if we do good. The Knight still chooses to try and destroy the world with the fountains. It’s almost as if, no matter what we do. Evil is still Kris’s true motive.
@@JinxeBlaq I mean we dont know really her motives.
@@idioticone2349 Yes that’s valid, but that doesn’t disprove anything. They know the risks and choose to cause chaos anyways.
Isnt it kinda creepy that in this route, the options when the "player" is talking to Noele kind of comes off stalker-ish? As if the "player" has this creepy crush on them.
Yeah seems a little like that. Insisting you go on the ride with her, saying you're "something else", and then saying you come to the hospital to see her is weird
Yeah very much giving me abusive relationship vibes. Like Kris wants to own Noelle
Its the exact reason i stopped my attempt on the snowgrave route
I felt so uncomfy having to choose those options
@@teesegeese9941 It's not Kris, it's you. Noelle says that Kris' voice has changed and you get options to answer her thoughts because we've been reading them.
Susie also says that Kris looks unhappy when you meet her again because they didn't want to do what you made them do
@@exzyyd392 omg!!!!! I didn’t even put that together :0
In my opinion the reason Noelle agreed to whatever the player commanded (through Kris) is that she has been so defenseless in her whole life that she felt so good freezing enemies for power because the player manipulated her to overcome her fear and “toughen up”. It’s pretty disturbing.
rudy talks about mayor holiday is hard on her, so that's probably why, as kris manipulating her is kindness to her
6:25 I just noticed Noelle's walking animation plays when Kris crosses the barrier. She didn't just think of stepping off, she started to, but stopped herself.
OH MY GOD I NEVER NOTICED THAT
Oh! I thought I was just imagining it, nice to know it wasn't just me
(SCREAMS)
Maybe she was trying to tease them? But was scared of Kris getting mad at her?
@@acidicali7776 not in this route no
I love how the name Snowgrave or weird routes are the perfect name for this path, instead of Genocide or something because You cannot kill every enemy in the place… You are only limited to some. Quite a fitting name
Very fitting, like a coffin shaped as your soul as the logo.
I dunno bout the moniker weird...I can see why it would be called that tho but SNOWGRAVE is already a fitting route.
This seems like a creepypasta, but it's real
@@dainsrover5757 we will be doing the same thing to other party members In future chapters so snowgrave will be weird as a name since only noelle uses it
I think the "Murder Route" would be the a good name for this route as well. Because I don't think we are killing enough for it to be called "genocide", but I'm also sure Noelle won't be the last character we will force to kill... I don't know who is next, but it might end up being Toriel and her flame magic or someone else. Toriel would be a lot harder to convince because she is much older than Kris and Noelle and she seems to be one of certain monsters that believe in pacifism. But Noelle used to be innocent, but look what happen to her in the Snowgrave, Wierd, or Murder route. But obviously we won't know until the next three chapters come out... someday.
Theory: The player is forcing Noelle to become stronger and level up so that they can use them as the protagonist instead of Kris, as they have clearly been shown to be fighting back against the player, while Noelle is weak-willed and yields to all of our commands. We are training her to become more powerful than Kris, so that in the end, we can possess and use her to our own ends, all unknowingly.
Edit: I just remembered. In Undertale, plaques in Waterfall detail a type of monster called a boss monster, whose soul can survive a few moments after the bodies death, so that a human may absorb it. Maybe that’s what this is building up to?
I’ve had this scenario that it gets revealed to be a “the end justifies the means.” thing.
The cold, brutal, but most efficient route.
Noelle becomes strong enough to overpower the titans by herself, which prevents sacrificial deaths of major characters that would happen in the normal route.
I picture the goner vessel just standing there commanding Noelle as she’s decimating the titans without much struggle.
In this route, using your weird methods, YOU saved the world. Not the heroes.
They feel zero fulfillment, relief, or accomplishment as for the apocalypse being prevented. A weird feeling.
@@forkgodsdescendant2503 that would be an increadible way of doing it, in my opinion.
"A Different Snowgrave"
Y’all think Kris is gonna eventually have enough of the player’s shit and be the sans of this game? It’d be ironic af since they’re basically the Frisk/Chara of this au.
Deltarune isn't undertale
@@peltepatero read the comment again
I think that for the genocide route Susie will find out what Kris has done to Noelle and I think that might lead to a big fight, I am super concerned about Ralsei, his undying loyalty in Kris is kind of creepy.
Imagine a boss battle with Kris against your creation and Kris finally talks
it wouldnt suprise me if it turns out "mike the KNIGHT" turns out to be another "player"
The scariest part of Snowgrave I’ve never seen people mention, is the fact that the player is forcing (presumably high schoolers, maybe even younger) to relentlessly kill things, even their own friends.
Aren't they in high school? They are said to be teenagers from Queen herself. I could be wrong for all I know through.
@@chesrieldreemon824 I mean there are 13 and even 14 y/o in 8th grade. But either way, the player is still forcing fairly young people to commit murder lol.
@@jesusfish743 I agree. I was just confused when you said middle school as I never even thought of that.
@@jesusfish743 i think kris is like 17 y/old because toriel said" soon you,ll be going to university"
...didn't that literally happen in Undertale too
I love how the Snowgrave route leaves Berdly just lying there sleeping in the library. Kind of like he's frozen in time in the Dark World and because it's sealed he can't get out or "wake up" metaphorically. It first made me think of the term "falling down" like with the secret lab monsters in Undertale
Unless the whole town goes Dark and he might have a chance to return... BUT HOW?
@@Ramsey276one you are serious??? You dont remember the roaring, if that happens everyone get rekt
@@yeineryet6656 I was more assuming a Dark World taking him in again before a Roaring-scale event.
Would NOT be nice for him to wake up just to experience THAT!
Q_q
The computer lab closet also has enough space to fit a person inside.
Perhaps even a bird shaped one....
I think, since he's frozen in Dark World, it probably means he's dead or in a coma in the Light world, because nobody could wake him up
Idk how, but Toby did it...
He made something a LOT creeppier then the undertale genocide route (in my opinion)
This is litteraly horror
Because manipulation and gaslighting is very much a real thing, which is not only terrifying, but also tragic.
@@WatcherLex_killing is also a real thing
The king says the "you left them behind" line in a normal run where you don't recruit everyone
And if you do you get all of them recruited you get a funny little exchange between king and queen
@@lazerspyxgamin6073 Queenie Beenie
Yeah he said that me to and I felt so bad bc I forgot to get that needle guy in the cyber space
i didnt recruit anyone because i didnt want to
It’s probably just me, but the Snowgrave Route really feels like something out of a greatly well-written creepypasta like Ben Drowned or NES Godzilla
Ikr! It’s so well written
I completely agree, it is far more creepy than the genocide route which is more sad in my opinion. It really does feel like a creepypasta.
It’s a Canon creepypasta
Ben drowned is like shit story XDDD, but nes godzilla is actually good
@@polskififerr2622 both are good wtf 🗿
You forgot to mention that in the computer lab examining the closet says that you could probably fit a body in there and it's implied that Kris stuffed Berdly's body in there before leaving
Jesus-
Same thing is said in the other routes. I think it's just more scary since there is a dead body now.
WAIT AND IT SAYS KRIS PICKED EVERYTHING IN THE ROOM UP AND YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO GO BACK IN
BRUH KRIS PUT BERDLYS BODY IN THE CLOSET
Oh my god I covered my mouth in shock
That makes so much sense
Ch.3 snowgrave followup: chaos at the corpse closet
Honestly seeing Berdly react in Snowgrave gives me a new respect for him as a character. I didn’t care much for him in my normal route but seeing this it just… changes things for me. That said, I will not be attempting the Snowgrave route until all the games are released 😂
You might be waiting a while, then
@@hamcelot9971 i know lol
Yeah. Normally he has this exaggerated self-absorbed nerd persona, which does make him entertaining, but in a 'I like to hate you' way. But in the Snowgrave route, when he realized something's wrong and Noelle is actually in danger, he immediately drops it without hesitation and tries to save her.
Imagine if he got the undyne treatment and got called "The Hero" on the battle menu and got a cool "2nd phase" lmao
It's always kinda scary to see when you messed up so badly even the self-absorbed, annoying character becomes serious and tries to protect others
16:36
Another pair of oddities are that:
1. Instead of looking behind Susie to see if she has a tail in a normal route, indicating her boldness, she instead asks her about it to confirm she was dreaming.
2. Instead of getting over the top about her and Kris saving the world, Susie mentions that it didn't feel like they saved the world, and that she senses trouble up ahead.
I just wanna point out that Berdly isn't completely dead. Or at least, not yet. We know from Undertale that if he had died, he would've turned to dust. So maybe he's in the "Fallen Down" state Alphys wrote about in her True Lab?
I don’t know if deltarune is exactly like undertale with how enemy being defeated
I think he's just trapped in the dark world, considering he was frozen there and never had the chance to return. He might be saveable by bringing him to Ralseis dark world or submerging the library in darkness again. Either that or he is technically dead, but since he's completely frozen in the dark world, he can't really fall apart in the lightners world either.
@Switch4Smash they could Just do the graves Just for the sake if the Family don't wanna the dust
@@michaelmccauleyforkids9795 They're monsters, aren't they?
They turn to dust.
@Switch4Smash Why NOT bury the dust?
I always prefer the dialogue Variant when Kris wears the watch because while we didn’t have enough time to tell Noelle that what she experience wasn’t a dream, it is possible for Noelle to put two and two together and realize that that everything that had happened did actually happen. I really can’t wait to continue down this route in the future chapters.
Pacifist Players: Chill~
Genocide Players: We want more horror content in the game Toby Fox!
I'm so glad I went the Watch dialogue variant on my first try
Maybe this small choice could affect the next chapter
@@carrot6964 Who knows, it is all up to Toby and his team to decide.
It’ll probably end up being that way. I can’t think of a way for chapter 3 to just ignore everything that happened in this route, and I don’t think Toby can just say “if you did this route, you can’t continue on to the next chapter”. This is probably the start to something bigger
Fun fact, during the button room, you can see Noelle doing a walking animation in place on the button.
She was a lot closer to ending you then you thought.
nice catch
She actually does kill you by stepping off her switch if you mess with her and step off the switch and almost zap her first. You awaken to her freaking out and apologizing when you restart, if I remember correctly
@@katelinm1530 she just closes the gate right before you touch it, it can’t kill you
This unfortunately is a route I don't think I'll ever play; the genocide route was straight out creepy and wrong but at the same time you couldn't connect as personally because they were mostly monsters and it was more concerned with killing. However, this one deals with a rather eerie and realistic form of emotional manipulation and it honestly scares more than any murder spree one could think of.
@EL AUTENTICO wait what does this have to do with women?
@El AUTENTICO But why specifically women, there is no difference between men and women when it comes to making mistakes. Youre being a sexist.
@EL AUTENTICO based words from a based man
@argalow 22 Why Hunter x Hunter specifically?
@argalow 22 Hmm maybe I haven’t reached that part yet
Fun fact: the thorn ring takes Noelle’s HP down to 55. 55 in roman numerals is LV. Just a fun thing to think about knowing how Toby flipped the meanings of EXP and LV to a whole other concept. =)
Nice
Seeing a wholesome character such as noelle becoming a cold blooded murder breaks my heart.I swear, I just froze in front of my screen thinking what will happen to her.
"Freeze" your heart
@@freezinglapiz1352 After you cut it out, of course.
Yeah, that's it was The Player as the soul controlling Kris,i your manipulated childhood of Noelle turned Blood murder them to killed Berdly with Snowgrave.
Snowgrave Route is Worse than Genocide route in Undertale.
You Bastard, The Player made did this!
@Guinea yeah and its so sad to see noelle becoming a "cold blooded murder" as well
We made her that way, since we chose that to happen, whether it was playing the game or watching a YT video. It's like Flowey said when he called out us when watching the genocide of the underground play out, from any video platform. We still have the choice to participate in these theories and analysis
We know Berdly can't be *DEAD* dead, because monsters turn to dust when they die. But it will be very interesting to see what's going on with him in chapter 3 post-snowgrave.
Nah, he's pretty much dead, he's still in the "Fallen Down" state, every monster goes through this state before turning into dust
Monsters in DR don't use magic and we don't know what's in their graveyard. Berdly is the first case of a monster possibly dying so there's no way to know if he's dead or not
Maybe he's in a coma or brain dead
Since his body is frozen, and frozen enemies can't escape (whether they're alive in the ice is debatable), when you seal the dark fountain, he essentially goes completely braindead.
He probably isn't fully dead, but he sure as hell isn't gonna wake up
When he loses his arm trying to take Queen's plug off of him, his arm stops working in the real world.
This just adds a whole other level to Deltarune. It’s so much more than just “another Undertale”, especially with the Snowgrave route now in the game. I can’t wait to see what Toby has planned for the other chapters considering just how much detail went into an alternate route that’s so specific to fully witness 👀
This route being so much worse than Undertale's Genocide and it's not even the full game... That impresses me to the point where I _really_ want to play the game (I haven't had time, I just have it downloaded)
What makes this path so horrifying, especially compared to Undertale, is how you really have to know exactly what you're doing, and be willing anyway, to go through with it. It's not just grinding out all monsters in every area. You have to consciously push the most manipulative decisions on Noelle, whether they're right in front of you or you have to go looking for them, because a single slip of kindness or remorse will put you back on the normal path. And there's a lot of chances to slip up, as if the game doesn't want you to do any of this, but it knows flat out telling you to stop will just make you feel more tempted to try.
Plus, there's no unique challenges to reward your persistence like in Undertale. The final boss is just the bonus boss, and many gameplay and story beats are completely skipped. There's literally no justifiable reason to send Kris and Noelle down this spiral of abuse, except MAYBE to abort at the last moment so you can give the ThornRing to Malius instead. (Makes me worry what future options will lead to the PureCrystal.)
Noelle can actually still use Snowgrave if you abort at the last moment. You're allowed to teach her snowgrave as long as you don't use it on berdly. Taking the thorn ring away would make her unable to use it, though.
@@kittentamer2164 Imagine if you have Noelle learn Snowgrave, abort it at the last minute so berdly lives, and instead save it for the next time you're with Noelle and have her Snowgrave someone else that's important in the future chapters
@@lucylu3342 "Always have an extra bullet in case the enemy catches you"
With this stance, I’m so glad that I ended up streaming my snowgrave run rather than do it alone and look up the steps, cause everyone in my chat was telling me what I had to do to make sure I didn’t mess it up, and when it got to portions where I had to do something, questionably manipulative, my chat would be all in saying things like “do it, you have no other choice” “you have to if you want to continue” “do it” and it really showed off how messed up the route is if you fully commit
I mean, you could also take as the player what Chara said to heart, and realize the only point of the game is to win,
Not only we are forcing Noelle to freeze everyone, we are forcing Kris to encourage the murdering to happen...
I feel bad for both of them
It's ok, it's all to get stronger.
A lot of people don't seem to get the fact that YOU caused the route, not Kris, YOU are not Kris, Kris is the knight by his own will, but only without YOUR soul
it all makes sense now why kris acts so hatefully towards the soul when they rip it out at the end of each chapter
@@duckified. In the Snowgrave/Wierd route, yeah it does make sense. In the normal route, Kris probably wanted to make dark fountains because like their other Lightner friends, they doesn't see a problem with it because of all the new friends they made. Plus Kris wanted to eat a whole pie on their own at the end of Chapter 1 because they didn't want us to stop them from doing what they wanted to do _without_ our control.
Cool fact. If you let Kris get down during the Berdly fight then Berdly will mention it to Noelle. Noelle will say she still hears their voice telling her what to do. This implies that its truely the players choice on what happens and it isnt Kris telling her what to do
Fun fact: You can still walk towards noelle during the hospital scene.
I love how fast you fly through the story after the Noelle section is over, especially how fast you convince Queen to just give up
i think ralsei mentioned the story sooner in this route becuase he knew something was very wrong and wanted to end it asap
@@brandonwithnell612 ah, you mean him talking about the Roaring immediately when the showdown was supposed to happen? I think it's because he knew they had not enough recruits to fuse and would loose the 1v1 mega bot battle (also there are far less darkners in the streets and security is broken)
@@PancakemonsterFO4 the mega bkt battle was an idea proposed by berdly ralsei didn't know about the mega bot
@@arcstar8337 who knows, mabe Ralsei knows more then it seems since he did get confused when things started to fall out of order and proceeded to rush through the story
@@arcstar8337 susboi seems to know that when Noelle and Susie were talking we were supposed to watch it and not him and Kris. It isn't far fetched that he also knew we were supposed to go full on megazord but without recruits we ducked so he wraps it up very quickly.
notice how it says "You whispered Noelle's name..." and not "Kris Whispered..."
a neat little detail
it's more like Kris is freeing themself from influence in a weird run than opposite. And this "you" instead of Kris more indicates that Kris begins to perceive themself as themself, not as someone on whom they has no influence. From the influence of the story that Gaster created, and which is obliged to move only in one direction, in which no one really has real freedom.
@FREEDOM You copypasted this at least 6 times lmao
I will have to disagree, from chapter 1 there is very clearly a posession theme going on, and in undertale there was a heavy implication that the actions of the genocide route were directly influenced by the player, "you"
To me the "You whispered noelle's name" is a very clear indication this is also the case in deltarune
It just doesn't make sense for Kris to do these things to free themselves from an influence, how is that gonna help? It doesn't even fit their character, everyone's always talking about how Kris was and is a good kid
Notice how every time in the snowgrave route there's a nice choice, it's "proceed" and something more in line with pacifist route Kris, you pick proceed, it's your choice to continue
To me the "Nobody gets to choose who they are in this world" and "Your choices don't matter" are not directed at Kris, but at the player and their 'character'
The snowgrave route is the player trying to force their will into this world, to make their choices matter, if Kris's actions won't change the outcome, maybe Noelle's will
There's also the very on the nose fact that noelle mentions Kris's voice sounding different when saying their commands, clearly a sign it's not really them
@@aurum3747 I've written this many times because you all don't know how to think correctly. I didn't deny possession, but possession occurs in those situations when Kris rips out their soul and creates dark fountains, not in situations when player makes some decisions. The weird route is the reaction of Kris themself to the fact that their body is possessed by Gaster, depriving them of their soul and forcing them to do fricking shit.
@@aurum3747 the TV at the end of this chapter with a smile appearing directly hints at this.
@@aurum3747 "The snowgrave route is the player trying to force their will into this world, to make their choices matter, if Kris's actions won't change the outcome, maybe Noelle's will"
This is such a dumbest interpretation, especially considering that no one has ever made a single direct hint that the player even exists in the lore as a subject. What you just wrote, for example, about the fact that Kris was a "good child", although even from their room it is clear that they, unlike Asriel, for example, is not diligent and the way the characters notice that they were quite silent, or how Alphys says that Kris usually sleeps in class, it all so doesn't correspond to the cheesy nonsense that you wrote that you should wash your eyes and reread what the characters say, not what your head invented.
I like how it's implied that Noelle's mom is really strict and very hard on her, so the idea of her being controlled by Kris and commanded against her will is made just a little bit darker. Just a little
11:04 I cant get over how in this serious moment Berdly still makes that goofy face when summoning his weapon
i know, threw me off so much
It's probably because they didnt have a sprite with a serious face for the weapon summoning
@@DungEnjoyerr yet he has a serious face during the Snowgrave battle
@@markthegamerofgrima6159 yet my balls (mandatory)
This actively feels like the player is "gaming" the system the game doesn't normally let you kill people so you yourself are using Noelle as a way of bypassing this. It explains why the game itself act's "weird" when you take this path you are breaking the "rules" and doing it in a very unconventional way.
Considering the clear discomfort these actions cause Kris and the fact you can't start doing this until Ralsei and Susie aren't around. Along with the fact Ralsei has conversations with Kris when the player isn't in control of them. It makes you wonder how this antagonistic view of the player will develop as the other chapters come out.
I did actually, during my second pacifist run at what was to be the Ferris wheel scene, skip over it to see if Ralsei said anything different when doing my run through again of that chapter (I didn't do Jevil from part 1, and wanted to do both him and Spamton Neo, so I restarted from my chap 1 save). Unfortunately Ralsei only has a 'well okay then!' kind of response, and cuts to where Susie does a 3 point landing on him without ever hearing what was possibly said to Kris. I don't think it matters much, but still that is interesting that Ralsei won't mention anything if you keep your attention on him.
@@Dragon359 Yeah pretty interesting it seems like Ralsei is aware of the player and try to have moments where Kris and the player are separated so he can talk to Kris alone. It's really subtle the first time it happens where Ralsei tells Kris to focus on and think about Susie without explaining why. Then suddenly we're following Susie around unable to directly control her but able to give her commands she seems have the freedom to not follow. When we go back to Kris, Ralsei seems to end the conversation knowing we are listening again.
My current theory is that the angel in the Delta Rune symbol is actually us, the player, and the final fight will be against ourselves, or something. After all, the angel is a figure that hovers over and watches the three heroes in the Rune, and is that not what we’re doing through the entire game?
Addition to this thought the boss is some version of the vessel made at the start of the game, and that’s what we’re controlling.
I Always wanted to be a monster
Spamton Neo isn’t creepy, but Snowgrave Route? That’s just downright messed up.
Spamton sits in uncanny valley territory. Snowgrave is emotionally taxing and eerie.
Yeah, it even worst than Betrayal genocide in Undertale. It would be like gaslight Papyrus into hurting other monster under the guise of becoming stronger so he could become royal guard, even captain maybe, and make him do the genocide in your place.
@@maxentirunos Deltarune 3 prediction?
@@gluttonousgoddess Not for me, he seems cool.
@@ukrainiansturgeon8561 yea, uncanny valley is like, some think its creepy some think its ok, hence uncanny
I keep thinking about what Noelle says directly after casting snowgrave. It doesn’t sound like she’s reacting to the horrific thing she’s just done, it almost sounds like she’s talking about something else entirely.
She repeatedly says she doesn’t remember what she did with Kris to “get stronger”, implying she’s in some kind of dissociative state when using her ice powers. And we’ve reason to believe that Noelle has some repressed memories, so Noelle could very well be reliving something from the past when she’s talking after snowgrave.
Old comment but Thorn Ring has trance ability and come to think of it the music goes super slow in Undertale killing everyone too so maybe it’s this rush of power and the distress of being manipulated that causes an altered state
I like that this doesn't feel like a genocide route, it's just a weird little Easter egg/creepypasta, while the recruiter route is much more lore friendly, and feels like it's actually leading somewhere
Yep there are different route in deltarune
This feels _worse_ than the Genocide route, making the player feel even more guilty than UT's actual Geno route. And it's only chapter 2!
@@paulstelian97 it does for a moment, but by design it doesn't feel canon. instead of dooming everyone this feels less important than the good routes
@@zanelebushgenie270 Well, that's cuz it will be leading to a new rote in chapter 3
@@paonippobemduro i'm well aware, my point is that they captured the idea very well
This is actually worse than the Undertale genocide route, as here you're directly corrupting and manipulating an innocent girl into becoming a murderer.
This route directly shows the player slowly taking control of Noelle too, we're making her into our second puppet.
It's messed up for sure. But, I tend to think that killing an entire species in the span of a day is way, way worst.
@@chesrieldreemon824 It depends on whether you view life or free will as more valuable.
@@zenoblues7787 Right, you got a point. I guess I just view life more in the sense of undertale's case, but Noelle being fucked over is also another messed up thing on it's own.
I guess I can only say both are dark in their own way.
@@chesrieldreemon824 Who knows, maybe Kris will get to genociding too once they're done manipulating innocent kids. Just to spice things up.
@@RhysezPieces kris isn’t the one doing it. WE are.
15:50
Kris isn´t calling for Noelle. You, as the player, are whispering her name.
Every other call was written as "Kris called"- However for Noelle it´s "You whispered"
That makes this end even more creepy in my opinion.
It's more like Kris is freeing themself from influence in a weird run than opposite. And this "you" instead of Kris more indicates that Kris begins to perceive themself as themself, not as someone on whom they has no influence. From the influence of the story that Gaster created, and which is obliged to move only in one direction, in which no one really has real freedom.
The alternative is that Gaster somehow changed Kris' soul so that another being (the one we're playing for) got access to their mind. In this case Kris opened the dark fountain in order to stop being a hero in this story, in which there is supposedly only one possible end and no one has freedom. However rather at this moment Gaster on the contrary penetrates into their mind and forces them to help them establish global control.
Gaster is barely related buddy Ya need to stop it’s the player always has been why would it say you if it was not ur “theory” mostly relies on fannon crap it’s hella stupid
Am i the only one who whispered Beardly's name :D
Not funny :(
Rest in peace beardly
Also note the word choice in the Neo fight. Not “Kris called out for Noel.” But “You called out for Noel.” Not the first time something like that happens but the times it does happen I believe are mutually exclusive.
I like how the snowgrave route shows you the player as an actual entity in the game, considering the times you respond to Noelle when she thinks to herself
I love how the player is the villain of the story. It’s a nice story twist
Genocide route: am I a joke to you?
@@memescoffee3173 we all know who is actually responsible for the crimes us players committed in the Genocide route. I mean, they took control and started killing all the monsters before destroying the world. They fOrCeD us to do it
@@memescoffee3173 so it's obviously them and not us
@@memescoffee3173 except there is nobody else this time around
@@memescoffee3173 just us and Kris. So obviously people are going to ignore anything pointing towards us. Since it's either Kris or Kris is possessed by someone else oBvIoUsLy
I know this is supposed to be a serious vid about a genocide-like run but when he said "bouncing balls known as pps" i lost it
What are those p p’s??
@@Ramsey276one pepis
@@LunarAssasin XD
The in-game description of the Pipis describes them as "an invasive species of freshwater clam"
💀
2 things I want to say.
1. There are 5 chapters left. Excluding Berdly, Noelle, Kris, and Susie, *there are 5 classmates left.*
2. If we see how Spamton is like a corpse without the strings, Spamton giving Kris some actual reactions, then it's possible that Kris is in a tough situation where he doesn't want us but needs us.
About the first one, HOLY CRAP YOUR RIGHT!
although it's implied that the characters we'll be with in the chapter is susie, ralsei, toriel, and possibly undyne since she's at the house checking out the tire.
I think what Noelle meant with nostalgic is that she and Dess used to watch horror stuff and she would get creeped out or scared by it, but now she just misses it
She likes things that scare her
.......
*You are being scary the whole route*
@@arek.k8688 Making it all the more impactful
Fun fact: There is a possibility that the "entity" controlling Kris is just the real Kris that everyone used to know. They are simply trying to break out of the control of the player
I think it's the opposite you are the entity and Kris keeps trying to get rid of you but you keep coming back.
@@zenoblues7787 it can't be opposite
At least not plausible as Kris being the bad guy
@@zenoblues7787 remember that we didn't change anything
This is not Undertale
This is deltarune
You simply don't get to choose in this universe
@@moahmedallam6732 But I believe Snowgrave Route is meant to show us we can't change anything or make any meaningful choices... but others can. We couldn't kill people but Noelle could we just had convince her to make that choice. However in order to achieve this we have to follow a specific path that we can't deviate from even once. So even in this path we are not actually free to make our own choices.
@@moahmedallam6732 I think it's a little different than that (I'm talking about the last two lines).
You can choose things, but the choices you make do not affect how things will end, but they will have an influence on how characters behave and have an influence on how some events play.
Great video, but you skipped a looootta details that only make this creepier.
One thing I wanna point out is her moment with Susie. Susie said "she's feeling better now" implying Noelle wasn't feeling well before. Then, before the Queen fight, Susie says "Noelle needs to wake up". Noelle wasn't present so why did she use the words "wake up" here? Queen says that she has awakened too much already. Notice how ThornRing gives Noelle the Trance status effect. My theory is that, due to her trauma (more types of trauma, one from killing enemies and Berdly, and another from being forced to remember Dess's death via Snowgrave), she went emotionally numb and a bit more bold (her boldness stat keeps going up as the route goes on). So that's why their umm... smoochy time... was likely Noelle acting all on impulse, with her usual emotions severely number.
What I think happened is that Susie found Noelle in her room distant and distraught, Susie heard Noelle out, who confided in her. Susie tells her it's a dream, which prompts Noelle to kiss Susie, with the reasoning that "it's a dream so whatever". If this were confirmed as canon, it would be the snowgrave equivalent of the moment in the normal route where Noelle suggests jumping from the wheel or asking Susie to hit her with her axe, but with the added change of Noelle's increased coldness and boldness.
_Shivers while reading this on My chair_
*Je-e-esus christ..*
EW WTF EVEN WORSE THEY MANIPULATED HER TO KISS
Dang, and I was bummed that I missed out on this "hidden route" everyone was talking about. Now, not so much.
I want to unsee
Fun fact: The Thorn Ring is heavily implied to be a Homage to Dark Souls, likely being based off of the Ring of Thorns, which causes pain to the user via cutting into their flesh, and giving them a unique power.
Further implication of it being a Homage to Dark Souls, is through the Currently unusable weapon, the Twisted Sword, which is only obtainable through combining the Thorn Ring with an Item called the "Pure Crystal".
Maybe the shadow crystal obtained from winning against jevil? 👀
@@katelinm1530 Shadow Crystals all come from the Secret Bosses. You get one from Jevil, and Spamton NEO gives one as well.
Highly doubt it. There's no direct reference to it and rings of thorns are aplenty in literature and multitude of videogames. So it is not heavily implied anywhere.
Hard to know if Toby is referencing any in specific or just keeping it simple by what it is, a representation of "power" through pain. Even more if Toby himself doesn't admit any reference being used.
I get you like Dark Souls. They're good games. But try not to see Dark Souls everywhere.
It's fine to have your own personal headcanon though.
@@albertdiaz4710i think it's a metaphor for noelle hurting herself mentally while she listens to kris, since she says the that battles "blur together," and also physically it seems.
@@albertdiaz4710i also recognize every time undertale music is played. every. time. hard not to notice it
In the very first part of the game, (where the player futilely selects how Kris would look) we were told that there was no “choice” - that the player couldn’t fundamentally influence/change Kris the way that we could Frisk in Undertale. Since it seems Kris (as a character rather than our avatar) actually doesn’t want to hurt/manipulate their friend, I’m now wondering if Toby Fox made it so that Deltarune as a game records/documents our influence on Kris growing, and how Kris tries to resist but ultimately must yield to our control despite their own wishes. It’d be super messed up if in the end Kris transforms into the way we designed them in the beginning
(edit: fixed a typo)
I think an interesting take would be the opposite. Where throughout all the chapters we progressively force Kris to do worse and worse things (assuming we are playing the genocide equivalent) and instead of in the end succumbing to our control, we cross the line so far they outright rebel, turning into the Deltarune's equivalent of the sans fight. A punishing battle to make you wonder if doing all those terrible things was worth it
if kris transforms into the way we designed them im going to be devastated because my kris' look like clowns because i thought it'd be funny
Hehe I made kris bald
@@bup489
Well, if this theory turns out to be true to some extent, then perhaps Kris would lose their hair from the sheer stress that we made them endure.
Then Kris can be One Punch Man
@@steveishere8808 yes kris=Saitama confirmed
I like how with Deltarune people are finally starting to realize that you the player and the character you play as (Kris or Chara) are separate beings. This was implied in Undertale but a lot of people didn’t really get it. At the end of the Genocide route, it’s Chara, your character that you played as, talking directly to you through your screen, not a child with a green shirt talking to a child with a blue and purple shirt.
Chara is separate from frisk, she’s not the character you play as
@@vanderengland5775 they
@@bbew2914 oh ok
@Thi_Usi they ffs
That…doesn’t sound right. But if that’s *your* own interpretation then cool
Noelle is such a precious character I feel so bad for her on the Snowgrave route.
toby is a genius writer
ive only played the pacifist good end run on both chapters but seeing the playthrough on youtube just makes me,, sick,, like im going to pay for this as soon as ch3 comes out, even if i didnt really do anything
just as deltarune made me cry laughing, it made my jaw drop in horror. never change toby, never change
Nothing like manipulating a child to manipulate another child to turn into a snowy murderer uwu
uwu
uwu
uwu
uwu
uwu
15:50 ...Kris called for Noelle? No. *Kris* wasn't calling for Noelle, Kris called for Susie and Ralsei. No...the one calling for Noelle...was *you.*
* You whispered Noelle's name...
Not Kris, the other times it said Kris called for Ralsei and Susie. In fact, if Kris faints during the Berdly fight, Berdly tries to call Noelle over with him, Noelle says she still hears the voice telling her what to do...your voice, most likely. That and after the hospital room where you tell her you were there for her or it was real and not a dream (19:47 ). Spooky.
The control we have over Kris and Noelle is truly terrifying.
I'm surprised you didn't note that when you meet up with Ralsei and Susie after the Berdly fight, they note Kris looks distressed too, eek.
Truuue
Something I always found chilling is when you equip Noelle's watch the Kris. Her monologue at the end changes a bit and it always gives me shivers
11:04
"If you're hurting my *friend* Noelle, then I have no choice but to stop you by force!"
Berdly doesn't even use the usual sappy dialogue he uses at this point in the game, he drops the crush act and calls Noelle his friend instead of "My lady/damsel in distress" because he knows something's wrong. That relization made my stomach drop.
Additionally, if Kris is downed during the fight, Berdly will frantically tell Noelle to get away from them, but she refuses.
@@avacadotoast5571 Really? Well this whole scene with Berdly just went from bad to terrible. Wow. 😓
@@Sailorguardianluna Yeah. It's horrible, especially after you do a normal run and get attached to the characters.
@@avacadotoast5571 That's why I can't bring myself to do this route
I dont remember exactly where, but the game tells us about Spamton, that he was created by a lighners dream but bond to stay stuck. noelle rembers a tragedy during interacting with Spamtons shop
The lighteners dream part is about the robotic mettaton neo body that spamton takes over. And The line of dialougue comes from Swatch
@@keklord4128 yea i just found out a while after i wrote coment. whoopsi doopsi xD
@@keklord4128 Huh. At first I thought it’d be Alphys’ dream, but then I realized it must be Hapstablook (aka ghost-Mettaton).
rember 😀
That's actually really cool, good find
I feel like Kris soul was hijacked the same way as when Frisk fell into the flowerbed and their soul got mixed with Chara and the player. So that's why Kris acts weak when he removes the soul, it is still theirs but now under our control.
yeah ths chapter makes me think soulless kris might actually be the good guy, afterall he hasnt really done anything violent yet, just create the fountains, worst hes done is eat some pie and slash toriels tires but i assumehe was just hungrey and the tire thing was to make sure susie stayed to help out in the dark world
@@brandonwithnell612 You know maybe since Kris looks tierd after ripping the soul out, so maybe they needed some energy after going to the library that is quite far away, and them eating the pie was the solution to not collapsing wile doing his things.
@@weavilelover kris is the one with the knife, pretty sure he he slashed the tires otherwise what else would he be doing outside probably opened the door so undyne will comme in
@@weavilelover I totally thought that Kris was going to kill everyone and made it look like someone broke in xD
@@olrinajhynise Uh, didn't notice that
This is why I love Deltarune and Undertale. Mainly because when you do a pacifist route the game seems so chill and gives off good vibes (with some gloomy touches ofc for the lore), but when you go with the genocide route everything gets so damn creepy. It's like the whole colour and chill vibe of the game you were just playing fades away, giving a completely different experience and feeling. I find that so damn amazing-
I always found it sad that you can see Berdly shift from looking determined to surprised when she starts casting Snowgrave.
The plot twist is that in chapter 3, if you did Snowgrave, Berdly wakes up but you learn he catches a cold.
@@shatoriboyd3867 ...it’s a joke
OMG THATS SO SMART
Gamers don’t die, they respawn
a WHAT
That can actually make sense, instead of Berdly dying in the second chapter, he is still alive but he is sick and he feels distrust towards Kris, he starts to feel like something isn't right.
As someone who experienced Undertale entirely through Let's Plays, I never understood Flowey saying that the people watching the Genocide Route because they didn't want to do it themselves were way worse than the people playing it.
Now that I'm actually playing Deltarune, I get it. Just watching this made me feel like absolute shit.
Undertale and Deltarune does that to ya
You know what makes this worse?
*it’s so easy to abort this route*
You have to carefully force Kris to say the most controlling dialogue options.
And you can't do it on random
The obvious thing is that Noelle tried using ice magic when she was younger, and something went wrong. Her power probably went out of control because she tried to use a spell she wasn't familiar with and she wound up hurting someone. The spell may not have been SnowGrave, but the consequences of it probably stuck with her, and now she has a mental block that restricts her magic, and why she associates more powerful magic with the name 'SnowGrave'. What the Player does is force her to slowly lift those restrictions on her mind by fear and trauma, culminating with her freezing Berdly solid, lifting her mental blocks and removing her inhibitions in the Dark World. As nobody comments on Berdly's breathing in the end, we can assume that he's still alive but probably in some kind of coma. This implies that Noelle's magic might not actually kill the target, but it can still cause harm. Like, say, putting someone in the hospital. And Rudy is reluctant to talk about precisely why he's in the hospital...
Lol it’s Elsa
I guarantee she is responsible for whatever happened to Dess and repressed the memory
@@jessicacaron5084 I was just about to say that!
I just noticed while watching this video that in the ending, Kris actually puts their soul back inside of them before the fountain covers the entire screen
I actually thought Kris was just holding the soul up for almost a toast to the new dark fountain or something, but it might also be that they were holding us up for the smoke to consume the soul first too.
@@Diamond1234 I thought it was the soul not being put inside, if what I said is true then would the dark fountain stuff fill the space for a soul? Or is the soul going to be used by the fountain aswell? We will only see on ch3
@@Diamond1234 That's what I thought too but while watching this I realized you can see Kris's arm move back when the fountain has covered almost all of the screen (presumably putting their soul back inside their body)
@@Diamond1234 I think Kris holds it up when you go to th bathroom aswell though
Maybe. A special animation plays when the soul leaves and returns to Kris’s body, even in combat. That animation doesn’t play when the chapter ends.
If you equip Noelle's watch in the dark world as armor, and visit her in the hospital after the snowgrave route, she has an extra line of dialogue
Press the right arrow while noelle is talking in that pitch black cutscene, you will get the scariest dialogue in the game.
@@soupfan1 what's the dialogue?
@@msmorax3186 noelle will get scared and will tell you to stay back.
This route is so worth it. I played it through and it was SOMETHING. When you watch a video, you don't feel the same uneasy and uncomfortable feeling in your chest which you (at least i do, personally) have, when playing the Snowgrave route for the first time. Toby truly is a genius and I cannot stress enough of how unsettling is this path! Truly exciting, not like the first chapter. I really do hope that other chapters will be like that
my heart would drop every time I had to say a line multiple times... absolutely gutwrenching stuff
I know a few comments have pointed this out already, but I think the Snowgrave route highlights that Kris is their own entity, with their own wants and desires, and you're taking control of them. (I think) Kris wants to make peace with the Dark World, but you don't let them do that. Noelle comments on a creepy voice, not Kris' voice, and that being what she heard in the other world as well, the creepy voice likely being the player forcing their own will onto Kris.
I find it kinda funny how in a normal route Berdly tells Kris after the second fight that if they don’t get stronger they’ll never beat him. Yet here he’s confused on what they mean by “getting stronger”. I’m guessing it’s just because of how they’re getting stronger.
What I like about this route is that the closing of the fountain is unceremonious. As in no fanfare plays like it does in the first chapter, and on the normal route. It's just a nice (if you can call it that) little detail.
Just a thing I noticed:
In Chapter 1, the game constantly tells the player (or Kris) that they have no say in anything. In the Snowgrave route it's similar with Noelle in Kris' gradually changing behavior-- they get more possessive over Noelle and make choices for her.
Cool theme I think.
I didn't think there would ever be a type of genocide route that would be as unsettling as the first game's, but BOY was I wrong.
I love how spamton sums up the player during the snowgrave route with”THANKS TO YOUR[JACKASS]STUNTS”
It is just a theory but, is plausible that the terrifying voices are the player's commands? Are we the bad guys cooping with Gaster and his schems when choosing the "genocide" route? There's some evidence in the dialogues about voices alike Kris's, also during the fight against Spamton, Kris does not call for Noelle's help like with the others, rather "you" with a wispher.
It's not like this ....
where did gaster come from??? he has little to nothing to do with the snowgrave route
Why do people always bring in other characters not involved tho
@@errorcringyname4044 exactly
whatever you choose, you still hurt/traumatise kris by controlling them, not to mention lie to their friends
Good job Toby, able to make the brightest of stories to the darkest of tragedies
8:50
In the Normal Run, you solve the puzzle by trolling Noelle into using her Deer ability and jumping over 1 block obstacles to turn off the puzzle switch. In Snowgrave, you solve the puzzle by forcing Noelle to use a blizzard to wreck the puzzle's mechanism and stop the force field from the inside, rotting away the contraption within
“A creepy remix of the cyber city’s theme”
It’s still a bop.
Come to this of it, the player isn't really in full control of the situation either. We can manipulate Kris' actions, which is a lot, but the "red soul" we're playing as doesn't seem like it fully knows what it's doing. The very beginning of the game suggests that we (red soul, which seems to be our main POV character) were tossed into Kris' body completely against our will and with total disregard of our preferences. Someone just went "I don't give a shit what you think, you're Kris now". The POV character and Kris are actually a bit similar in this regard, as no one chose this but they have to put up with the situation, since *someone else* decided for them.
P. S. It also makes for a very interesting character dynamic within the main character. Like in Undertale, where genocide led to Chara murdering Frisk, stuff like Snow Grave seems to provoke conflict, while pacifist may be about working together.
I used the manipulated to manipulate the manipulator
reinforcing the point of "your choices don't matter"
I think their are several tiers to who controls who in this situation, tbh. The first voice we hear at the beginning of the story is likely Gaster, since he seems to want us to make a grey-scale character similar to the Gaster followers/goners and since he is a scientist and his most iconic line includes the statement "very, very, interesting", this story makes sense. It is likely that the player was created to do Gaster's biding throughout the story, and whether the player is actually following him or not is currently unknown. Gaster is then rudely interrupted by another voice, who is heavily implied to be some other even more powerful being who clearly holds the most control over Gaster since they force you out of your chosen body and into Kris's body. From then on, we control Kris, and do whatever the hell we want. We can be nice to their friends, and we can hurt their friends, etc. They are under our control. The only time they seemingly get power back is at the end of the chapter when their soul is ripped out, but even then, it is still unclear if that is the "real" Kris or not, since we don't know enough about them to know if they would do all the things they would do at the end of the chapter, for all we know they could also be being controlled by the knight as well. Their are so many unknown factors to it all
WOW amazing! When I originally played the undertale genocide route, I knew that every character there except sans didn’t know our intentions which made it really dark BUT fun to get invested in. But this snowgrave route, is darker, yet darker.
It has to deal more about manipulation rather than plain killing loved beings which is a cool switch up by Toby fox very interesting
I think Spamton is more of a cautionary tale than being a tragic figure, though he could also be considered tragic since pride was indeed his fall. He never actually gets what he wants (freedom), even if he temporarily gets a significant advantage (becoming Spamton NEO). So, he’s an example of wanting more and more but accomplishing nothing once you reach your peak and being used all along (through whoever is controlling him).