Comparison: 2023 BMW M2 (G87) and 2023 Honda Civic Type R (FL5)!
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- In this video, I compare my 2023 BMW M2 (G87) and my 2023 Honda Civic Type R (FL5). With dealer markups on the Type R, the price can get close to that of the BMW M2. That is how I ended up cross shopping the two cars…which resulted in me buying both. I hope this video will be helpful for those looking to have one or both of these cars in their stable.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
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seriously I think you do a much better job at informing the viewers on things we actually care about, keep up the great work brother
Thank you for the feedback!
I totally agree
Thanks Joe. Oddly, I had the Integra Type S at the top of my list but ended up ordering an M2 instead. Great to see the comparison.
Honda looks way better
Appreciate you making these videos!
keep these kinds of videos coming!
Awesome comparison Joe! Exactly what I wanted to see, not a lot of people would be comparing these two but you did it. Keep it coming with these informative videos!
Thanks for the feedback!
I think they both cater towards different things, the previous generation for bmw not so much. The new m2 feels like a GT car where the type r is/has been the dual purpose daily/track car. Still can't get over the looks of the m2, can't say the same about the type R. Looks timeless!
Awesome vid Joe! Great comparison man.
Thanks, Chris!
Thanks for the video, it was interesting
Thanks for the feedback!
Honestly, I don't excited about ANY modern M car. The E30 M3, E36 and E46 M3s...yes!
The FL5 CTR is like the modern E30 M3 (sort of) with how much a driver's car it is. Its relatively lightweight and the fun factor is through the roof! Of course the CTR is FWD, but its a smile machine!
What a great review! I do love this generation type R but I never drove it or even the M2. I’m familiar with both companies and owned few Hondas Acuras and BMWs. To me if I’m owning one fun to drive car, then it must have a rear drive platform
Thanks! I was without a RWD car for a year and felt the void. I didn't cover it in this video but the M2 is a wild with M traction set to a low level (it allows a lot of slip).
Great video Joe!!! I’m also a Fl5 owner and it’s amazing how the type r is compared to an M2 for what it is … M2 definitely sounds way better
Thanks! Great to hear that you have an FL5 too! It is such fun car. The FL5 and M2 are so different - it is great that we have options like these in the car market. Yes, the M2 sounds better. I love how loud it is when I start it up in the garage.
Did your dealer sold it to you at msrp?
@@abdulgill5013 I had to buy some accessories for both cars, but I didn't have to pay a dealer markup / market adjustment.
Great comparison Joe! I have an TR M2 coming and I am looking at my next daily driver, currently a Tesla M3. Type R and GR Corolla/86 are on my shortlist as daily.
You’re getting rid of your Tesla as a daily ? How come ? I feel like the majority of people don’t go back once getting a Tesla (at least for a daily)
Thanks! Great to hear about your M2 - I think it looks best in Toronto Red. I chose Zandvoort blue because it reminded me of Yas Marina Blue, which I loved on my F80. Those are nice options for daily drivers. The Type R offers the most space - I did a side by side comparison of the Type R with a GR Corolla and found the Corolla to be quite a bit smaller. I bought the Type R thinking it would replace my Tesla Model S Plaid as my daily, but the Tesla has been so great as a daily that I'm holding on it. I drive a lot (400+ miles a week) and I often use the Tesla as a mobile office.
@@omichaelnato5388 To be honest, Tesla or any EV is perfect as daily as long as you have a place to charge at home. I am only doing it so I can try a few more manual cars before it's all over.
Awesome videos I'm also a Type R owner and I'm shopping for another car to compliment the Type R the M2 looks like a great garage mate.
Just found your channel, great video, just subscribed
Thanks!
I’m trying to level up to your status. I’ve bought a few cars that will be the last of its kind before to the ev takeover. 2020 GX460, 2022 Cayman GTS, and soon to be integra Type S. Love your in depth video btw 👍
Thanks! That Cayman GTS with a 4.0 is a gem! Awesome to hear that you have one! That is a level above. The GX460 is a rock solid vehicle. Reviews of the Integra Type S have been great. I'm hoping to try one someday.
I have a F87 M2C and FL5. FL5 for daily, M2C for track.
Nice combo!
This was a great, detailed and honest comparison of 2 similarly-purposed vehicles but yet, also very different. Thank you for contributing your hard earned money to the Save the Manual movement!! I myself can only afford one car and it needs to be somewhat practical. The Type R is what I wanted and although I put my deposit down about 18 months ago, it appears that it wasn't early enough since my dealership is now expecting a delivery in 2025 :(! All is not lost as I got myself at the top of the Integra Type S wait list as soon as the announcement was made. I will be taking delivery late this month or early July of a white one. It will be interesting to see how different the Type S will drive compared to the Type R. Anyways, congrats on owning 2 absolutely fantastic and beast of cars, I am super jealous of what's in your garage! I have 2 questions, did you also consider a manual M3 before deciding on the M2? I liked how you compared the cargo capacity of both cars, curious if you own a bicycle and if you tried putting it inside the Type R with the seats down with both wheels staying on the bike?
Thanks! It sounds like that Honda dealership has quite the backlog on Type Rs! Great to hear that you'll be getting an Integra Type S soon! Yes, I had considered a manual M3 before deciding on the M2. I was ready to order one but I decided to stick with a smaller car as I prefer the dynamics of a small car. I had owned the previous generation M3 and think the current one is a bit too large. I own a road bike but have not tried putting it in the M2. I don't think the bike would fit with both wheels on. A road bike with both wheels on just fits in my Tesla Model S with the back seats down and that is a much larger car.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee
Yes, looking forward to the Type S, thank you! The lack of Type Rs is not just my dealership, it seems to be a Canada thing, apparently only about 550 total are being imported from 2023-2025 so not enough to go around. Sorry I wasn't clear about the bike fitting question, I meant you're Type R, not M2. Cheers!
I originally wanted an M2, then i saw iDrive8 and the new styling and was going to go Supra...but at the price point and with the practicality of the Type R (plus it looks amazing), I might be going Type R.
The Type R is hard to beat at MSRP or up to $5k over MSRP. The M2 has a more premium interior and more power but it comes at a hefty price premium. If RWD and a high tech infotainment aren't important factors, I think the Type R is the way to go. The Type R looks and feels special, and is a lot of fun to drive. If RWD is important, the M2 (and Supra - I used to own a 2021 Supra) offer RWD with enough torque to spin the rear tires loose at low gears (MDM or M traction needs to be enabled on the M2) while rolling - not something that everyone cares about, but I enjoy that feeling.
Great video! Currently have a M2 on order but have been cross-shopping the Type R and Type S. Between all 3 test drives, I definitely prefer the Type R/Type S gearbox but really love the S58…and I really don’t need the true backseat. On a side note, do you put PPF on any of your cars?
Thanks! Of the 3 cars you mention, I think the Type R is the most special. I think the Type S sounds better than the Type R but that can be fixed with an exhaust. However, I found myself driving the M2 a lot more because it is RWD; once I started exploring the M traction, the playful rear end was something to look forward to. I have put PPF on cars before then I stopped because I wasn't holding onto cars long enough to justify the cost. Going forward for my longer term daily drivers I plan to install PPF.
Thanks Joe, I just ordered a M2, let the wait begin
Nice! What color did you order, and what is the estimated wait time? The more I drive my M2, the more it impresses me. I'm excited to hear that you have one coming!
@@TheLifeofJoeLee Nice to hear that! I checked out the Type S before I order one. (local dealer got a demo for test drives) Type S interior is no way near BMW quality (even though I just own 2023 330 msport) and they ask 70K for it LMAO
So I ordered a blue one like yours, with bi-color wheels, blue calipers and cognac interior. Cannot wait!
I called around 30+ dealers to ask about waitlist times, so I got into waitlist from a Marlyand dealer. Estimated wait time according to sales person is 8-10 months but no one really knows how many allocations they will get for M cars. I chose that specific dealer because they are huge, they should get good numbers
Waiting is tough! Let me know if you ever want to sell your cars! lol
wish the FL5 had the M2 exhaust sound. I really like both cars but "if" you can get either at MSRP, I'd choose the FL5. Thanks for the vid.
The Integra Type S sounds better than the FL5. It has one less resonator. I'm curious if Honda will update the exhaust on the FL5 for 2024 to be louder.
What gets more of your driving time? And if you have to choose one of the two which one? Also were you considering carbon buckets or standard seats were what you wanted? Great comparison btw
Thanks for the feedback! At the moment, the M2 gets more driving time. Both cars are great...I need to think more about which of the two I would choose. I originally spec'd the carbon package with the carbon buckets. The car that I ultimately purchased was a BMW spec that the dealer offered to me while I was waiting for my spec. After seeing reviews that said the carbon buckets didn't go well with the manual, I decided that forgoing the buckets wasn't a big deal (saving $6k was nice).
@@TheLifeofJoeLee yes the carbon buckets look amazing but it’s not as comfortable it appears to be. Like you mentioned $6k difference is a lot and g80/2 M doesn’t seem to charge that much for one if I am not mistaken. Although this gen civic’s interior has improved drastically from the previous model, along with perfect type r seats and s2000 like interior layout, I still would prefer more premium space of the M2. Just curious if you would choose one from another in term of pure driving dynamics.
@@GSTRification I believe the carbon seat option for the G80 and G82 is $3800. On the M2, it is part of the carbon package which goes for $9900 and includes the carbon roof and interior trim. My car has the carbon roof and interior trim which together add up to $3400...unless I'm forgetting something in the carbon package, the carbon seats are $6500 on the M2. In general, I prefer RWD, but am finding the Type R to be more fun on the street - I think the weight difference is a big contributor to that.
Bmw M2 All Day, Any day. There's no Civic/Acura engine that can match and out perfor that power . Both beautiful cars it you ask me. Im a proud owner of 2022 M4 Comp XDrive conservative tune 740 whp /820 Hp
Which dealership did you pick yo your type r from without adm?
I bought the Type R from BMW of Turnersville in NJ.
If money wasnt an issue, which would you get? and why? And any thoughts on the new Mustang Dark Horse?
I'll get back to you on the first question as I'm still thinking about it. I think the Mustang Dark Horse is a lot of car for the money. It is essentially the same price as the M2 - it seems like a track focused car and it sounds amazing.
What brand is the car seat ?🎉
The car seat is a Graco Tranzitions 3 in 1 Harness Booster.
I waited so long for this video. Thank you for uploading it. Just like above comment, if money isn't issue (or same price), which one do you get? Why? I heard because of type R mark up, they choose M2. I hope after few years, there will be no mark up.
Thanks for the comment! I think the Type R is a lot of fun for the money at MSRP or even $5k over. The Type R cost me $23k less than the M2. I wouldn't pay $70k+ for the Type R. Part of the beauty of the Type R is the value (I recognize that it isn't cheap). If I had to decide on one given what I paid for them...I'm going to give that more thought as I go back and forth on it.
How long did you end up waiting for your m2? I put a deposit last month, the dealership is expecting an allocation mid July.
I ordered mine in Nov 2022 and was told that I wouldn't get it until fall 2023 as I had spec'd the carbon package. The M2 that I bought in April was spec'd by BMW and was offered to me by the dealership. With the exception of the carbon package, the spec was close to what I had ordered so I purchased it. That is a quick anticipated turnaround on your car. That's great! What color did you order?
@@TheLifeofJoeLee Zandvoort Blue! I opted out of the carbon package, many reviewers were saying that the seats weren't as comfortable as the standard ones. I don't have children yet, but I'm glad you showed the backseat being able to fit a car seat comfortably. Really great review and comparison, I'm hoping to take delivery Nov/Dec this year cheers!
@@RkRxPro Nice! Zandvoort really stands out - I've gotten a lot of compliments on the color. As nice as the carbon seats are to look at, I'm glad I didn't get them for the reason that you stated...also, my out the door price was almost $6k less than the one that I had spec'd which is great. Thanks for the feedback! I misread your original comment thinking that you were getting the car in mid-July. It sounds like you'll be getting a 2024. I'm curious if they'll introduce any changes.
@@RkRxPro I don’t have an M2 but I’ve been living with a 230i for 8 months now so I can tell you from experience that the back seats in the 2 series coupe are very usable. I can fit behind myself,I am 5’7”, and don’t feel squashed but my hair brushes the roof. As long as you aren’t trying to stuff 4 six foot tall people then the back seats are actually usable. I put my wife and kids in my car when ever we don’t want to drive the Escalade. I have even taken my family to my autocross events so it makes for an okay road trip car. Interior wise the 2 series coupe isn’t as cramped as a Camaro or gr86, the back seat is actually usable in the 2.
i'm considering f87 or fl5. Mreliability
I was trying to get a fl5 but with these prices, cant afford it
We'll see how the release of the Integra Type S affects prices on the Type R.
Get the FK8. It is less refined but it has effectively the same engine.
One lucky man here. Great video with 2 great CARS.
My Brother has a M2 in Red coming later this year with Manual.
I was thinking about a Type R for my next CAR.
I have Red GR Yaris in Aus. Love it but so small.
I read the Type R only has 47 litre fuel tank or Gas tank lol Amercian.
Thanks for the feedback! Great to hear about your brother's M2 - I think red is the best color for it. I chose blue because it reminds me of my old Yas Marina Blue M3. I think you'll really enjoy the Type R - it is bigger than the GR Corolla too. Yes, the gas tank in the Type R (and M2) is relatively small.
As the price of the FL5 is approaching that of used Supras, I think people should not pay way over MSRP for CTRs. But if you do, you could've gotten a Supra which is in a different league.
I think the FL5 is a good buy at $55k or less with MSRP being ideal. I had a 2021 Supra with a downpipe, intake, and tune and it was a beast. The FL5 offers a different kind of fun in a practical package.
Would love to see your impressions after the full 1200 mile break in
Real life question. Which would you choose if you can only have one taking into account the extra cost for the M2. I currently have a FL5 and have a M2 manual coming soon. I don't want to keep both.
I have 2 young kids so my answer is driven by my practical needs. If I had to choose between these 2 cars and I could only have a 1 car, I'd choose the Type R because it meets my practical needs and I think it is the better daily driver for me. The cost savings would be a benefit. However, if if this were just a weekend car, I think I'd go with the M2.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee yeah valid points. I have an old SL500 as a weekender so this is the daily. In Australia the FL5 is $72,600 drive away vs $130k for the M2. It's almost 2 FL5 for the M2. I came from the M2C but find the FL5 more entertaining.
I just can’t get over how the m2 weighs so much, 600lbs more than CTR really kills it for me, what a porker
The weight of the M2 is unfortunate. If it is not driven back to back with a lighter weight car, I don't think the car feels overly heavy as it still feels nimble. However, when comparing with the CTR, the CTR feels much lighter.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee Yea Chris Harris seems to love his coming off of a 992 GT3 so I figured it has to feel great driving. At the end of the day that's all that matters really. I bought a 2007 Civic Si new and at 197 hp I thought it could not possibly be fun and I was proven very wrong. M2 seems like a great car, I personally love the looks.
thanks for the comparison! I was just offered an M2 allocation for retail ($65k) while shopping for a Type-R/Type-S...
it's juuuuuust past my price range (I'm stretching just to get to $50k), but my lord what a beautiful machine
seeing this comparison, I think I'm gonna be thrilled with the R, the M is a different experience and amazing, but I'll "upgrade" to one a few years from now
The Type R is a lot fun and feels like a special car, while also being really practical (to include strong resale value). There are Integra Type Ss sitting on lots in my area that are going for MSRP + $2k in packages. Hopefully, that will put a cap on dealer markups on the Type R. I think the Type R is a good value under $55k OTD.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee thanks! yeah, I'm on the list for a Type-S with $5k markups. I'm going to tell them it's MSRP or take me off the list
for the Type-R, I've been calling dealers around the country, and most are telling me 55k right off the bat, with a half dozen offers between 50-53k, so Type-R prices are DEFINITELY coming down too
I appreciate this video, because you helped me move on. obviously the M2 is the superior car on paper, but if you can still greatly enjoy a drive in your Type-R, I think that says great things about it
Why no GR Corolla?
From what I've seen in reviews, the GR Corolla is a great car. However, the styling is not for me and I wasn't interested in an AWD car as I already own 2 AWD cars.
Here is a question: If you could only choose 1 of the 2 cars, which one is more fun?
The two cars are very different. I think the Type R is more fun at lower speeds and is very easy to control - it is confidence inspiring. Also, I think it feels more special. However, I recently started playing with M traction on the M2 and have been having a lot of fun breaking the rear tires loose. If price were a factor, I'd chose the Type R and be very happy with it. However, I like RWD and being able to overpower the rear wheels. If I had to choose 1 and price were not a factor, I'd choose the M2.
Honda have best gearbeitet thats fact
How I wish I could do the same, buying 2 great cars and then compare them afterwards." Let me buy an Integra type S and a Civic type R and compare them to you. Oops time for me to wake up 😂😅
Someday! I'd love to have a Integra Type S too...but that would be too much, lol. With the markups on the Integra Type S that I'm hearing about on Facebook, they cost more than the M2!
I’ve owned a M2 and a M2C. Those last 2 shots of the new M2 illustrate how awful the rear looks. Great video by the way.
Which one is more comfortable in comfort mode for daily use?
The suspension in the M2 is more comfortable in comfort mode.
Bummer the M2 weighs so much! It’s my next car and was hoping to try something that weighs less than my mustang!
What do you think about the Toyota Supra? It is 400 pounds lighter than the M2.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee actually that’s the other car I was cross shopping for! Currently have a mustang GT pp1 and a light pick up truck I use for my daily. For my “enthusiast” vehicle I prefer manual so the Supra and M2 fit the slot perfect. Because of the S58 and a simple JB4 I figured the extra cost of the M2 would be a hell of a performance bargain!
Comparing to an ACURA "CIVIC" How about an RS3? More like it.
I had not considered an RS3 because I wasn't in the market for an AWD car, but yes, the RS3 is within the price range of a Type R with an ADM and the M2.
M2 looks disgusting next to the Type R 😂
Beauty is subjective...and relative, lol.
Apples and Oranges...
I agree - they are both enthusiast cars but there are a lot of differences and they are special in their own ways. However, with dealer markups on the Type R, someone might cross shop them like I did.
not easy to compare each other because they are nearly the same.
Great review, but no way the M2 gets 3.6 second 0 to 60 without a set of race slicks lol!
People have already done it.
@@postalpancho On a prepped surface or a special tire guaranteed! I have a friend out of break in , and the car got a 3.9 with the Auto trying a ton of times! Same with all the reviews I've seen so far!
@@postalpancho Mat on Carwow got a 3.9 basically with a proper launch with launch control on a dry day! I guess it could do slightly better with more break in time, and really hot weather for traction! This car needs to have the xdrive option for sure.
Altitude and surface conditions are certainly a factor. The acceleration data was from C&D - I recognize that they are known for optimistic times, but they had data on both cars. Either way it is a sub 4.0 second 0 - 60 mph car.
They don’t even compare . M2 is in a different league
The MSRP reflects it, but some Honda dealerships are still asking $60k+ for the Civic Type R which puts it in the same price range as the M2. I was fortunate to have a local dealer that doesn't charge ADMs.
I have buy the bmwbecouse for bmw u paid 78 000euro sind for this 2 l ho da you mast pay 60-70thosends Euro.. its to much monay for "smal honda
These are night and day cars. The Honda is a 4 door eco family grocery getter type of car that has received a performance upgrade but still looks like a 4 door eco lump. The M2 is a sexy 2 door coupe with lots of horsepower and luxury, a true sports car.
😂
It's a sad reality when an old and cheap civic looks better than the newest BMW ...
To each their own. It is nice that we have so many options now a days. The civic costs less but it is not old. The 11th gen civic was released in late 2022.
@@TheLifeofJoeLee THat is even more sad, as I guessed the age of the Civic to be at least 6 years, still looking better than the M2.
G87 is hideous.
The design is polarizing...
Never compare rwd with fwd shit
I understand your perspective (I prefer RWD), but the FWD set up in the Type R is very good.
There will always be that 1 bloke calling a type R shit....usually people with no idea about motoring
@@van_der_lindeDA yeah “engineering masterpiece”
@@tnproduction7674 wow type R or any understeering audi....I know where my cash goes.
@@van_der_lindeDA 🤡
The BMW is by far the worst looking modern BMW, looks like assembly halted midway so a cheap wide body kit from wish was added.
Looks are subjective - I personally like the styling of the M2 (and Civic Type R). What do you think of the G80/G82? What do you think is the best looking modern BMW?
@@TheLifeofJoeLee The G82's hood is too long, it has the silhouette of a Mustang, I don't like it. The G80 looks fine. THe best looking BMW is still the F87 BMW M2. It almost makes me tear up thinking of the mutilated design of the G87.
Had an s2000 and the dealer refused me test drive of an fk8 ( with pre approval ). Love the fk8 i have now just wanting something more mature. dealers doing the same thing with the fl5.... the fk8 has a 120k warranty might be sitting in that for a while lol. Love the cars !
120k warranty - you're covered! Your FK8 will hold value; it is a good car to hold onto. The FL5 will feel similar with more subtle styling.
Idk what BMW is thinking with their styling lately. That M2 is just hideous from every angle.
Not from the side view! Looks great when you can't see it from the front or especially the back end!😂