Should You Shoot in ProRes RAW? 12-Bit RAW vs. 10-Bit XAVC S-I Codecs Compared on the Sony FX3
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- The question isn't why you should use ProRes RAW, but instead, when. In 2024, many cameras support outputting a RAW signal (like my Sony FX3), the question is when you should use it in an artful manner.
In this short video, I compare clips from multiple shoots, each captured in XAVC S-I (Sony's H.264 intra-frame compressed internal codec) to ProRes RAW recorded externally from my Ninja Ultra. The results might surprise you.
Both are equally great codecs, but RAW wins out in difficult situations.
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Camera: Sony FX3
Lens: Sony 24-70mm GMaster II
Filter: Nisi 1-5 VND
Recorder: Atomos Ninja Ultra
Software: Final Cut Pro X
Color: Sony SLog3.Gamut3/ProRes Raw/Fictive Flame Grade
Directed, Shot, and Graded by: Nicholas Young
Nicely explained! 10bit looks nice until you see something better haha! After using 12bit raw for a while, I can never unsee it.🤦♂️
Thank you! Rendering can sometimes be recovered through careful color grading, but there’s no ignoring the fact that a straight conformance looks better when there is more data to sample from.
Kinda bums me out that Sony isn’t supporting the 16 bit linear RAW on the FX line. My FS700 and F55 BOTH shoot 16 bit RAW. Hell my F55 can shoot X-OCN. Maybe there will be some NAB news coming. I do love the look of FX line. Great video, keep up the good work!
For what it’s worth, the output is 16-bit on the FX3. It’s the ProRes codec which captures at a compressed 12-bit.
I’m not sure there is quality being lost, but I’d like to evaluate further to be certain. Nevertheless, this is one of the cheapest cinema grade RAW rigs, so that’s cool.
Hi Nicholas, first of all I want to say your videos are gorgeous! I love the way you are shooting your subjects. I am actually on the fence whether to try ProRes RAW. With XAVC S-I, I felt honestly that I get better results just by using picture profile 10 (HLG) and foregoing log recording, because my grading just came out wrong if I tried to do anything more than REC709 conversion, and then it's pointless, I can just do it in camera. I am aware I'm not a professional colorist, but I am planning on a solo project.
Thanks! I’m still developing my style, so I hope you’ll stay tuned.
I’d say the main reason at this point for shooting in RAW or an in-camera log profile would be for future post production scenarios. HDR standards are still developing, and it’s a question of how long you hope the project will go before it looks or sounds behind current trends.
Now though, in camera colors look really good: so you do need to less tweaking for fast deliveries (especially for web).
Maybe look up the Atomos support for RAW, rent a Ninja for a day and see what difference it makes. There’s no replacement for research.
Why they are looking different on 8 bit 422 rec709 youtube video, if you didn’t applied colorgrading? What is your colorgrading pipeline and which colorspace you used as intermediate? Did you used ACES? Your video is quite interesting, but it inspired more questions, than gave me the answers;)
It’s the additional color data being conformed to a Rec 709 rendering space. ACES is more useful if you’re matching multiple cameras as part of an overall color management workflow, these where straight out of the same camera with only the codec (and recording color space) being different.
In an HDR space, both expand to look similar. In this case though, the extra values were collapsed into the 709 rendering.
Just so you’re aware, CZcams uses 420 subsampling, too, not 422.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of color space and bitdepth. What's different between both these takes is that the internal video has the "sony" image processing applied and the raw skipped all that and gave that control to mr secretfader. He can do whatever he likes to the image since it's just bater data.
The problem with the internal is that it's been processed already. You're now basically trying to do better or undo what the image processing did.
It also has twice the color resolution (444 instead of 422) it's decoded back to 16bit linear from the atomos 12bit log, which is in itself a big change causing the much richer tonal range.
So basically when it comes to raw, you only go with it when you want full control of the image. You now have to tweak the colors, the wb, the exposure, the sharpening and especially the noise reduction.
But if you want a quick turnaround or a simple flow where you do not push the image or have to do all that extra stuff, go with internal. You even skip the color correction in editing by adjusting the saturation, black level, color phase and even depth from the picture profile menu for a "fully corrected" image to your liking.
This turned into a whole essay 💀
I love ProRes raw…
As do I. The Ninja adds quite a bit of bulk to my rig, but worth it when capturing important stories.
I’m following up with a guide in grading for SDR and HDR. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for more.
Everyone is asking "Why Prores RAW," but no one is asking how is "Prores RAW."
What would you like to know? File size comparisons, tools to capture, or something else entirely? I’d love to hear so I can answer accordingly.
I’ll do you one better, WHO is ProRes RAW?
HI Brother, If you love to shoot prores raw and prores raw hq please don't update the new firmware 3.0 I made a mistake by updating the new firmware to my Sony A7s3 and now I am not able to shoot prores raw hq with my Atomos ninja v more than 30 seconds...The camera now outputs DCI 4k to Atomos and I think there is some compatibility issue. Maybe soon Atomos will rectify this with new firmware. But you can record in prores raw compression. and it captures smoothly. As I always use prores raw h q. I am totally disappointed with the new firmware from Sony. Another thing is that if we choose xavcs I in the camera to shoot 23.976 fps , it automatically turns the frame rate to 59.9 fps when connected to Atomos ninja v...
Thanks for the heads up, though that was one of the first first things I did on my Ninja Ultra! I’ve had issues with less than ideal cables causing record issues though, so you might test that.
@@secretfader YOu are right. Will change the HDMI cable "